GET EM STEPH!!
- June 14, 2007
- Favorite Current Daytime Soap Opera
- Days of our Lives
- Favorite Soap Opera of All Time
- Days of our Lives
- Favorite Current Primetime Soap Opera
- Favorite Primetime Soap Opera of All Time
- Melrose Place
So, you use the ratings against Days but then acknowledge that a show of great quality like "Mad Men" doesn't do as well and say the ratings don't matter there. I'm not following you on this, I''m afraid. Sounds a bit like a double standard.
- Aug 4 2008, 05:55 AM
- Aug 4 2008, 12:04 AM
- Aug 3 2008, 04:11 PM
- Aug 3 2008, 03:36 PM
- Aug 3 2008, 02:49 PM
- Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.
I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.
I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
I completely disagree. I think they went wrong by bringing on a new character and shoving her down the audience's throats. She was the center of that Payla story... I don't know how it could even be called a Payla story since it was mostly about Ava kidnapping Hope. But really it was an AVA story. Then that did nothing for the ratings because the audience was expected to care about Ava and nobody did. So because the press and some fans raved about the actress, they decided to keep her around and shove her into another story for no good reason. There was already enough conflict in the J&M story... but they decided to eliminate Marlena and bring on AVA and make it the story all about JAWN the jerk and his little mobster girl friend. They even had to rewrite the character to put her in the story, since they spent time trying to redeem her and have her move on from married men and being pathetic. I don't care who told tptb or TB that she was well received and a big hit, but she sure didn't do anything for the ratings. Again, it's a soap rule... you don't bring on a new character and center the show around her and expect the audience to care.
And I didn't say the actress was a waste, I said the character was a waste. I didn't even hate Ava. I just thought she was pointless and a waste of time. Interesting that you somehow think J&M fans didn't think she was a good actress, yet you think S&K fans did? How on earth can you make such a statement? Have you polled every J&M fan? Every S&K fan? You seem to want to disparage J&M fans somehow.
While the ratings did not go up during the Ava/Steve/Kayla story, they didn't go down. They didn't go down until June and I think the ratings downturn has more to do with a lack of direction amongst stories (which goes back to Days being hesitant over where to go because of fanbases but I digress) and also because barely anything was happening. It wasn't exciting at all. At least during the Ava story some were curious as to the Steve/Ava history and what would happen.
I also disagree about the story not being a Steve/Kayla story. It delved into Steve's past and that affects them and their future so it was just as much as Steve/Kayla story as it was a Ava story. Ava drove the action of the story and most of the effects were felt by Steve and Kayla, which IMO makes this more their story then Ava's.
I will just disagree about the J&M/Ava stuff because I think it's been argued ad nauseum. I still think it fits nicely with other aspects of the story but I will agree they kind of shoved her in there. I do feel it worked though and I think it would've been much better had the writing for Marlena not been dreadful until recently.
I also never said that J&M fans did not appreciate the actress. I honestly don't know if they did, which is why I didn't mention that J&M fans did. I know Steve and Kayla fans did because I saw posts in many places where they said they liked the actress and her work and even felt they could enjoy the character away from their couple. I never once said I knew for sure J&M fans did not feel the same.
Just for the record, I used to be a J&M fan and got back into them with the new take on John. We have had some very nice posters here on the DR that are J&M fans and they can attest to the fact that I don't go out of my way to bash J&M fans or any fanbase. I just post my view like everyone else. No one has to like it but it is what it is and I have to say some of the reactions in some of the threads the last few days supports my points and the points of others...that fanbases (Not every fan in them, mind you) are helping to kill this show.
You shouldn't have to defend yourself ad naseum, Tim. It's strange how someone is accusing YOU of not being objective, when most posters consider you almost too objective! ;) :D
And, I still don't understand how a few folks can continually blame ratings on one character. That's just silly.
Back to Ava:
Granted, Ava came on canvas in an odd way, to me. But yes, it was still a Steve and Kayla story, originally. It just wasn't handled well, but it did delve more into his past. The resolution, however, should not have had to come about because Stephen Nichols and MAry Beth Evans told someone it was resolved poorly. At least it was, although it was pretty anti-climatic. That issue should have been solved BEFORE Kayla worked to help find out that Ava had been drugged. The llayers to the story weren't there; therefore, this was just a one-dimensional character trying to break up Steve and Kayla rather than a complex character with a complex history.
For me now, I first found Ava more acceptable not as an obstacle to John and Marlena (believe it or not), but because of her developed friendship with Nicole. Tamera Braun did an excellent job of taking a very thinly veiled confused mental case from an abusive background and had her overcome her forced addiction to the point of going out with her head held high. Nicole and Ava's friendship was a high point of viewing for me. The chemistry between Drake Hogestyn and Tamera Braun, for me, was just a bonus.
Like quite a few others, I do enjoy the new dynamic between John and Marlena, as long as Marlena isn't trying to force her wishes on him. (Sorry, back to MArlena). Actually, Deidre Hall is helping me see Marlena's pain when she sees Ava with John. As for Ava....John is the first man to totally accept her for herself, despite her past. For John, Ava is a woman who is not trying to turn him into someone he doesn't necessarily want to be right now. I can see why Drake enjoys this turn of events in acting and why he made the comments he did.
And, I hope, if the opportunity arises, TPTB invite Tamera back, and I hope she accepts. So, maybe she won't come back for John. Whatever. Tamera has taken a little puny, poorly developed role and developed it into something that seems to intrigue many people.
I agree completely :hail:
I also hate how it always comes back to the ratings as a measurement of something working. There have been shows out there putting out alot of quality and they have nothing in the ratings to so for it. Ratings can not be used to measure quality, especially in this day and age where soaps are lucky to just stay the same regardless of what they do. It seems like only stunts and gimmicks get rewarded nowadays and even that isn't working much anymore.
this is a business though and ratings are still the main way to measure how shows stack up.
I love "Mad Men" on AMC, I have no idea what the ratings are, and I don't care
On the other hand, I think days is as bad as it ever was (and that is saying a lot after the last few years) so I am not surprised that the ratings are low. Sometimes there is a reason that the ratings keep dropping.
And I don't think it is the *fanbases* fault either.
I'm not saying Days isn't responsible at all. Hell, the show hasn't been very exciting since March and the ratings are more driven by action and events then anything else. The worst thing you can be in today's ratings climate is boring.
I just don't think ratings measure quality. I've felt that way going back to the days when Days was in 2nd in HH and doing really well. However, like you said, it's still a business. It just sickens me to think so many shows are being cancelled because of a system that in no way accurately represents quality.