- Elite Member
- July 2, 2007
- Dec 4 2008, 01:53 PM
- Dec 4 2008, 12:47 PM
- Dec 4 2008, 02:28 AM
- Dec 4 2008, 01:46 AM
To change the subject a bit, I always have thought since Steve came back, that when he was working for Stefano, and when he was doing all sorts of other stuff, he had an affair with Gina (Hope). Maybe they had a kid that was given up for adoption. Steve has his memories back, but wouldn't want to say anything, as to ruin his relationship with Kayla, destroy Bo and Hope's relationship, and the friendship the four have. Steve never felt good enough for Kayla, and now he has many reasons to believe this is true. It would bring Steve and Kayla back to their core relationship. How would Bo and Hope react to learning more things that Hope did as Gina? What would happen to the Steve and Bo friendship; the Hope and Kayla friendship. What if this kid was raised as a DiMera somewhere, or he ended up in Salem, hell on wheels. As the son of Steve and Hope, he is a Horton; maybe he gets paired up with Chelsea. How would Bo and Hope deal with!? Some much to explore I bring this up because I think it could be a good long lasting story, but fans of the couples would hate it. The same thing that happened during the John, Marlena, Bo, Hope story. As a fan of the whole show, I enjoyed it. But sometimes fans of particular couples only watch the show for their couple, and thus anything that goes against what they want, makes the show poorly written.
I actually did that in my old fan fiction and would love to actually see the whole story through.
Steve, Hope, and Marlena were all MIA at once. I always wanted the show to link those stories. So much potential but I do think alot of the potential is in mixing things up (such as Steve and Hope) and the fanbases would put the kibosh on that.
I have mixed feelings on this. I want conflict for my favorite couples, but I don't want something trivial breaking them up.
Because I'm more J&M based, I'll use J&M for my examples, but I think the same would be true of any couple one is invested in, Bope, Payla, Tanna, etc.
On the one hand, I do like my John and Marlena rock solid in love and perfect. For me, they represent love, so I'm heavily invested in them and how they are portrayed. I don't want one of them to ever let the other down.
On the other hand because they are so in love, I think they should be able to conquer anything, and I want a lot thrown at them. But as a writer, how do you throw stuff at them and have it have impact if they have to be perfect or their fans don't like it?
I think there were cases where the writers went to extremes to break up the super couples in such a way that it would be hard to say 'love failed them, but incredible circumstances happened'. But some fans (NOT saying all) just would not even allow for the possibility that any circumstance could cause one to be unfaithful to the other.
The writers wrote the story where Hope and John are not in their right minds and cheat on Bo and Marlena. There were fans who absolutely hated Hope or John because 'their real characters would never cheat, not even under mind control'.
John thought Marlena was dead, Kate thought Roman was dead, they helped each other heal. Kate was wonderful helping John get over his addiction (not my fav storyline, but I loved her helping him). Not knowing their spouses were alive, they found comfort in each other. The relationship was interesting and a change of pace, but from what I understand there were some fans who were very upset with that story even though John felt Marlena was dead. I liked Roman and Kate as friends of John and Marlena, but it seems like that relationship was totally killed because of fan reaction. (note: I was not online when this happened, so I'm going by things a friend told me).
I don't want to get involved in was any of this right or wrong. My question is, 'Is there really any scenario where it's acceptable to upset an established 'couple'?
I'd honestly have thought mind control (as outlandish as that sounds) and death would be somewhat acceptable. If they aren't, what is?
I think there are great stories for our couples, but the writers have to be willing to make them human (without killing the core character) and deal with the fan fallout. It's our jobs as fans to get upset, but the writers shouldn't over-react to fan pressure. It's a balance. I want to be upset and tune in every day anxious to root for my couple to overcome, even if it's painful. I do expect it to be enjoyable vs. torture or enjoyable and torturous.
btw - I also think there are other types of stories, like mysteries, adventures, helping others overcome obstacles, being the backdrop for others falling in love, that are interesting without having to break the couple apart. There are many kinds of stories.
Kyrai, that is a great post.
You seem to understand the situation the writer's are in. I don't necessarily blame the writers. I blame Corday because he is the one who panics. Ten years ago, a writer would be allowed to see a story through no matter what. Fan backlash would be dealt with later. Any damage done would be done at the completion of the story. Stories would be shortened or stopped at times but they weren't closed up so fast and swept under the rug so fast that you wondered if what you had been watching was some sort of fantasy. The writer was given freedom to complete the story or end it in such a way that it did something for the canvas. Perhaps a bad story could end in a way that starts a better story. A good example of this is the Colin Murphy story. The character was a dud and never got developed so they axe him but they make him evil and have him killed, sparking a murder mystery. Before he dies, he blackmails Nicole and Jennifer has sex with him to save Jack's life. This created story for J&J and Nicole/Victor. Hope's breakdown was also tied in with it. So, they took a bad character and story and made it into something watchable by tying it to stories that work. That only happened because the writers were given the freedom they needed and could see it through. Too bad B&C were demoted shortly after and couldn't complete their work they way they wanted to.
To me, this is two fold. Corday needs to do what he did in the 90's and stay out of it. Only Tomlin should be allowed to work with the writers. I mean, he was a writer afterall. Corday never interfered in the 80's and 90's, at least not to the extent he does now, and look how the show was. He had a strong co-EP who kept him out of it and handled things. When he gets involved, he puts his own shit into the mix and, since he is afraid and wants to please as many fan groups as he can, he panics when he reads feedback or reads the net and sees people pissed. Therefore, because he is interfering, he can force stories to end before they are seen all the way through. He can force stories to change gears and the cause is a lack of direction and consistency. This has been the way since JER left and, to a lesser extent, since Langan left. I thought Ed Scott could reel him in but I was wrong. Corday had been allowed to wreak havoc for too long.
I never personally understood how you can hold it against a character if they are mind control. First off, I hated the Gina story because of the brain chip shit. It was just too much Sci-Fi at the time. I didn't like the Gina story until real Gina showed up. Way too confusing. Anyway, I would've preferred hypnosis or straight up brainwashing rather then the chip. Regardless, John and Hope were not themselves so how can it be held against them? The conflict was JT anyway because they thought he was John's. That was where the story was. It was about them dealing with John and Hope sharing a child together and that was interesting to me until they changed it. To their credit, they found a nice out to make Bo the father but still. I felt they lost a ton of story. I was actually hoping Hope's child was Stefano. Tons of potential there. This is the same thing as what is going on with John. I see so many saying John would never do this to Marlena or Marlena would never do this to John. Well, this isn't John. This is a different John. It's not the same and it can't be held against either of them given what is going on.
I remember a time when fans were more willing to be patient and to wait. They didn't make demands or threaten boycotts. Now I know soaps have burned fans too many times but let's think of all the stories some fans have gotten tossed out because they wanted what they wanted and wanted it when they wanted it. Not all fans but some fans come off as selfish brats. They want their agenda suited and screw everyone else. They want their couple on all the time but could care less about the show as a whole or the other characters. The only way to save soaps and to save Days is for fans to band together and to be a united front and start giving feedback about the whole as a whole. It's not easy to shift through all the feedback from the many fan groups and fans out there, all of which want different things and some of which are so irrational you wonder why they are allowed to walk the streets. Send feedback that is helpful. That defines a clear vision of what you want from the show. Hell, send the show clips of past types of things that you want. Act like you want to help and not like you only want your agenda served because, frankly, I'm sure some fans they didn't even pay attention to anymore because they are so sick of them acting like they are more important then the rest of the audience.
Back in the 80's and 90's, fans sat back and gave things a chance. They voiced their opinion but the situation was not at all what it is now. Now, the writers sit down and not only have to look at what works for the characters but what will be acceptable for the fanbase. They can't take risks. They can't write conflicts because many fans hate to see their couple argue. I see all the time fans say they want angst but then they get it and complain. Not every couple stays together in real life so why do they have to here? Why can't characters be allowed out of the supercouple bubble to grow a bit more? They can always go back but Days has been sacrificing character for couples for too long now and that is one reason why it's hard to write for the vets. They can't even write a professional story about Marlena's career because that would give her more time on her own and many want her with John all the time. It's just beyond sickening. It's hard to relate to Days when they follow the supercouple model because it doesn't reflect enough on real life. Yes, you need some fantasy and escapism but you need to be able to connect and it's hard to connect with the idea that every single couple on the show only has one person they can be with. Why not break one of them up and see what happens? Hell, that is how you got John and Marlena. You broke up a popular couple in Roman and Marlena because John and Marlena were bigger at the time. You never know what you may find if you just try.
The show can't write the same stuff over and over and that is what so many want. How many times can J&M and B&H on on romantic adventures and be in danger? I've seen that a hundred times. How many times can one of them be kidnapped or presumed dead? It's old. It's tired and the issue is many fans out there won't let the writers go outside the box and write stories for the CHARACTERS and not the COUPLES. I don't think they ever will either. Now, I'm not absolving the writers. They have their own issues but fans play a part in this too and NOT all fans but SOME. Let the writers tell stories. This is a daytime drama. They need to be able to take risks and fans need to think back to the time when they allowed themselves to go on the journey of a story. Things need to be given a chance because too often people read spoilers and don't even give something a chance (spoilers are another problem but I digress). You can't get a read on things through spoilers or early on. Give it a chance first and let the writers write.
I really hope for the sake of the show and daytime that the fans out there I'm talking about come to the conclusion that they are not helping and actually do what I'm suggesting. That isn't to say it will definitely help and I could be wrong about some things but it's the way I view the situation.
And I think also, although I am thankful for the internet, it plays a role in why Corday is so panicky. Fans can voice their opinions ALL over now.
And honestly Tomlin is not the best guy around, but Corday needs to just back out of everything. Not resign just take a minor role in the show...because truthfully as I've said, Corday is at fault for most of this, and I feel the show could be better if Tomlin could have free reign. He should have let Ed have free reign(can't say the same about Wyman because he just went along with Corday), and Ed wouldn't have been prompted to do what he did if Corday had let him have complete control. In fact if he let Ed had all the control I get the feeling that Higley wouldn't be here and maybe Hogan still would be. Although I still am not Ed's biggest fan because of the scandal, Corday takes alot of blame.
And say what you will about Tomlin, he knows how to run a show. He ran Sunset Beach and OLTL just fine. As you said, Corday just needs to let his Co-EPs handle things.