- Elite Member
- December 15, 2007
Certainly, the story has been handled badly. But, as a viewer, I feel like I have seen both John and Marlena presumed dead, suffering from amnesia, and brainwashed too many times for me to see anything fresh about them. The very idea that John would become a Pawn for Stefano AGAIN, and then Marlena would have to try to save John AGAIN, it's just been done to death. At the same time, if Marlena dealt with John's real death and had to try to keep her family together, while dealing with Stefano; that's interesting to me. There is plenty unexplored with that crazy and "complex" relationship. Either way, cutting Dee and Drake saves lots of money for the show and most likely not have any impact on the ratings. However, I find it kind of cruel when most of their stories did brings in the ratings in the 90's. But then, they got got paid a lot money for it, I'm sure :)
- Dec 21 2008, 09:37 AM
- Dec 21 2008, 06:39 AM
- Dec 21 2008, 12:48 AM
- Dec 21 2008, 12:34 AM
- Dec 21 2008, 12:29 AM
The biggest mistake happened when they brought John back alive. Somehow, the emotion of his death and funeral, brought some reality back to Salem. Marlena going up against Stefano could have driven the show for years. But the moment John turned up alive, all credibility was lost. John, with his 10 different character changes, had become a joke. Marlena finally had a chance to start anew, and then they ruined it. I guess I should have been more clear. There is and was still lots of story to tell for Marlena. But with John, everything has been has a been there, done that feel. Marlena had three strong romantic pairings on the show, she certainly could have found a new one down the line. For me, that would be half the fun.
So John and Marlena have "reached their expiration date", but Marlena and Stefano "could have driven the show for years"??
Yes, I believe that is what I said :)
Mikegoldy, you bring up some very good points. I think a lot of it is, too, that quite a few people enjoy John and Marlena SEPARATE from each other and individually, they probably have a lot of story to tell. Now, I'm solely basing this on boards I go to that tend to take a more general Days' viewer approach to things, including comments from this board in the past, all lumped together. I think some viewers just get tired of them being tied to one another. Thus, there is sometimes (dare I say often?) a lot of interest when John takes on a new love in between his reunions with Marlena. Quite a few people like Marlena more when she doesn't need to be rescued by John or gets all breathy over him. (yes, you read it right. I said it. Sometimes I think Dee overdoes the breathy ingenue thing in love scenes. It's not an uncommon assessment about her acting.) When she gets kick ass with Stefano, when she's seen as a psychiatrist or a friend (when John's not around), she does better. When John's around, it seems she can think everyone else can go to hell.
If there really was a lot of story to tell, as much as some people complain about them NOT telling "their story", don't you think they would have found something? Besides the usual complaints about the writers, isn't that saying something that they haven't written more? I would love to see totally new storylines involving them separately, not together. I might actually become a Marlena fan again. She was my favorite character years ago, then I quit watching around the time of the Pawn, so I never saw this wonderful gushy romantic stuff. All I know is, when i started watching again in 2005, my favorite character was a sad parody to me. That tough strong doc who lived through the heartache of losing a child and a sister became a simpering "heroine" who always needed to be saved. The thought of this character being a psychiatrist and having her mind altered almost as much as her paramour's mind was altered was a little too much for me. This psychiatrist, who works with other people's minds, has had amnesia, was possessed, and apparently brainwashed (I don't remember the reasoning for her being this stupid killer), AND came back from the dead. Not a glowing recommendation for her to give mental advice to other people! At the very least, I would have LOVED to seen her getting help from someone else. They do that, you know. Mental health experts get help from each other. Ministers seek counseling all the time to be able to handle what they do. They have to. And for Marlena to be the soul rescuer of John and his mental state all the time? I've read complaints about the "J&M" story since Reilly's second round. And for all the altars built to Sherri Anderson, we don't know that she wouldn't do the same thing to them. Writers don't always get what they want, either. (and we don't know that Sherri wouldn't push new couples to the forefront like she did in the 80's.)
Anyway, Mikegoldy, you have summed up stuff that makes a lot of sense for those of us who aren't necessarily anti-Marlena. I like your style! :wave:
I understand what you're saying, but doesn't this all still come back to the writing vs. an expiration date on John and Marlena? If there is really an expiration date on couple that you want to be together, wouldn't Bope and Payla be in the same situation? I used to watch Victor and Nicky on Y&R back before the pawn story, and I believe they are still together (off and on from what I've heard, but still a couple that seems to be a couple?) For me, John and Marlena's struggle against Stefano has been more about family than either one of them just up against Stefano on their own. Without a stake, I'm not sure I can see years of story with either John or Marlena just going up against Stefano. It's about relationships and family to me. I do think this may be where Days has changed. It doesn't seem to be about relationships and family anymore (not just for J&M but for everyone), and if so, the show is just over for me.
I don't think that the way the writers have written John and Marlena poorly meaning no one can write them well. I can see so many ways this year could have gone. How different would this story have been if Stefano had planted 'anti-Marlena, anti-Brady' feelings in John? It was somewhat alluded to early in the story that Stefano altered John's ability to even feel. He programmed John to kill Colleen so it was definitely more than just memories involved. I wish we knew what Hogan had intended vs what played out. The story was wonderful in the beginning.
I've always loved how the Brady's were so strong on family, and they adopted John and Marlena into that core. If we had known all along, that Stefano planted thoughts against Marlena and the Brady's and had seen John moving more to his dark side even with Ava, how much different could the story have been? I'd have loved to have seen everyone struggling to understand John while he's more Stefano or old style Vic like. John could have even teamed up with Stefano and Ava. I'd have rather him teamed up with Kate than Ava personally, but I would have enjoyed seeing Marlena, Bo, Hope, etc trying to reclaim him. I could see this going on for some time, with John actually being this new person, his family giving up on him and disliking what he's become. Marlena could have even moved on with another friend who she becomes closer to as she's realized John is gone. We could have seen Marlena moving on with her life, her practice.
Then after we think all hope is lost, there could be a story involving Bo and Hope investigating a crime or major crime syndicate that brings everyone together. We could have had some internal struggle with John's programming and new life vs. the ghost of his old self that was buried somewhere deep within. I think we got some of the struggle early on. Later, it just disappeared. It seemed more like family abandoning him because he was a victim of Stefano vs. him being so evil.
Everything on the show seems so geared to getting couples together asap versus taking time to set up and enjoy the story as it's playing out. I think if they just focused on stories and characters vs. a couple, it would be so much better for the show as a whole.
Regardless, I like alot of your thoughts here and enjoy the discussion. I just think a lot of things could have been done differently and poor writing overall is the problem vs any particular character or couple.