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Tuesday, October 11th Episode Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 10 2016, 05:57 PM (11,024 Views)
Sindacco
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Rosebud
Oct 11 2016, 11:28 PM
Oh, forgot to mention Paul and Sonny. Supposedly they were once the love of each other's life, but they are so awkward together that no way do I buy into the "history". They're awkward in a bad way. Everything about them seems fake and choreographed. It doesn't help that Freddie Smith can't act.
I agree. I also don't understand why Billy Flynn always play the scenes like Chad wants to make out with Sonny.
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Sindacco
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DaysBopeLuv
Oct 11 2016, 11:29 PM
When Clyde said what a good Dad Ben was all I could picture was little Thomas laying on the hotel bed all alone. Parents can actually be arrested for being that kind of great parent.
At least he put some pillows around the baby.
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sonnyfan
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darrell66
Oct 12 2016, 04:29 AM
Hugo
Oct 12 2016, 01:08 AM


About PaulSon, it still feels to me that the writers are stalling for no reason. I hope we don't have 3 more months of that, or 6. I wish Sonny could confide in someone about everything he's feeling about Will and Paul so we could understand why he's acting all flirty with Paul and then snaps at him. I would also like to hear Paul's intentions, is he hoping they get back together and is he okay with being his friend
This is exactly what should be happening. The show doesn't seem to be interested in exploring all the different angles for Paulson. There's enough drama between them that could create weeks and months of storyline. All the writers need to do is to think logically. I mean sure Sonny keeps saying he don't blame Paul and perhaps that's true. But who knows deep down maybe there is a part of Sonny who blames Paul but more importantly Sonny blames himself. For perhaps the real reason why Sonny is so hesitated at allowing himself to be romantically involved with Paul is that Sonny feels he would betraying the memory of his husband? That would make complete sense. As Paul said, Sonny has this idea of right and wrong, and in Sonny's mind the idea of him allowing himself to become involved with the man his husband fought so hard against, would be wrong in Sonny's eyes despite his longing for Paul. That certainly would explain Sonny's capability at flirting with Paul on one hand and the very next hand he's snapping at him. But for the audience to see and understand that we need to see and understand the inner conflict that's driving Sonny's emotions. We should be seeing Sonny pouring out his inner thoughts to friends or perhaps even his family. I mean when was the last time Sonny had a deep, revealing talk with his mother?

As for Paul it is tiresome hearing him talking about his guilt over and over again. But then again it's always done on a superficial level. The moment Sonny tells him he doesn't blame him, Paul drops it at that moment, only to bring it back up when they see each other again. Perhaps it's time for Paul to be more forceful. When he brings up again instead of simply letting it go when Sonny says he doesn't blame him, Paul should ask him, "Well why don't you?" which is actually a very good question to ask, and when Sonny tries giving him a weak answer, Paul says, "Not good enough. There's more to it, Sonny I wanna hear it." Intellectually Sonny may not blame him, but emotionally it could be a totally different picture and that needs to be played out in all the bad, good and everything in between. Because if Sonny is allowed to show his anger, guilt and pain towards Paul over Will perhaps that could began the healing process for Sonny as well as the start of Sonny being more comfortable at allowing his feelings for Paul to blossom. Or perhaps Paul may decide it's truly best they remain friends and move on.

But for some strange reason the show doesn't seem to be interested in developing this Paulson romance with any real depth or character-driven drama and that's wrong. In order for us to get invested in Paulson, the show need to create the human conflict and emotion that's needed for any romance. And the sad thing is that it's all there: the characters, the complex history, the chemistry. It's all there. It's just that show doesn't seem to know what to do with it. :shrug:
Sonny definitely blames himself...and I think he blames Paul

Paul definitely blames himself, and needs Sonny to show how he really feels and when you snap at someone like he's been snapping you have a problem with what happened.

And then there's the one sided flirting, and I don't know what Paul wants. Sometimes, I think Paul wants to be flirted with and sometimes I don't think he doesn't want to be flirted with.

Sonny is on a see saw...one moment he's flirting the next time he's acting ticked off. Sonny has been through it, but so has Paul...and I wished Paul would start to tell Sonny the crap that he was put through with Yo Ling and nearly dying.
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sonnyfan
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anzu
Oct 12 2016, 07:17 AM
Hugo
Oct 12 2016, 06:32 AM
darrell66
Oct 12 2016, 04:29 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeplogically. I mean sure Sonny keeps saying he don't blame Paul and perhaps that's true. But who knows deep down maybe there is a part of Sonny who blames Paul but more importantly Sonny blames himself. For perhaps the real reason why Sonny is so hesitated at allowing himself to be romantically involved with Paul is that Sonny feels he would betraying the memory of his husband? That would make complete sense. As Paul said, Sonny has this idea of right and wrong, and in Sonny's mind the idea of him allowing himself to become involved with the man his husband fought so hard against, would be wrong in Sonny's eyes despite his longing for Paul. That certainly would explain Sonny's capability at flirting with Paul on one hand and the very next hand he's snapping at him. But for the audience to see and understand that we need to see and understand the inner conflict that's driving Sonny's emotions. We should be seeing Sonny pouring out his inner thoughts to friends or perhaps even his family. I mean when was the last time Sonny had a deep, revealing talk with his mother?

As for Paul it is tiresome hearing him talking about his guilt over and over again. But then again it's always done on a superficial level. The moment Sonny tells him he doesn't blame him, Paul drops it at that moment, only to bring it back up when they see each other again. Perhaps it's time for Paul to be more forceful. When he brings up again instead of simply letting it go when Sonny says he doesn't blame him, Paul should ask him, "Well why don't you?" which is actually a very good question to ask, and when Sonny tries giving him a weak answer, Paul says, "Not good enough. There's more to it, Sonny I wanna hear it." Intellectually Sonny may not blame him, but emotionally it could be a totally different picture and that needs to be played out in all the bad, good and everything in between. Because if Sonny is allowed to show his anger, guilt and pain towards Paul over Will perhaps that could began the healing process for Sonny as well as the start of Sonny being more comfortable at allowing his feelings for Paul to blossom. Or perhaps Paul may decide it's truly best they remain friends and move on.

But for some strange reason the show doesn't seem to be interested in developing this Paulson romance with any real depth or character-driven drama and that's wrong. In order for us to get invested in Paulson, the show need to create the human conflict and emotion that's needed for any romance. And the sad thing is that it's all there: the characters, the complex history, the chemistry. It's all there. It's just that show doesn't seem to know what to do with it. :shrug:
Welcome to the board!

Paul and Sonny have had deep conversations under TomSell but it was mostly about their past. When they were talking about the present, Paul was open about his feelings for Sonny and would sometimes question him but Sonny could never give him clear answers other than "I'm married". Now it's almost worse because Paul feels like he can't be open and ask him questions anymore. It makes sense but it's frustrating to watch. There's very little progression. They have cute moments when they make small talk but as soon as it gets serious, it's dismissed and the scene ends abruptly. The writers could at least let them have those deep conversations with other people if they can't have them together.

Apparently there will be a breakthrough soon but I have a feeling this awkward dance will continue for a while. I think maybe the writers were hesitant with this storyline because they didn't know if Christopher would stay on the show or not. His initial contract was up in June and what we are watching now was taped in early May. That means this storyline probably won't progress much on screen until late November.
You know, even though they haven't had a deep convo in awhile, I actually think Sonny has been the most straight-forward he's ever been about the whole situation since he's been back. When he came to check on Paul, and Paul questioned him about what was actually going on between them, he, surprisingly, actually answered him finally. Granted, I didn't like the answer :blulaugh: and had like 5 follow-up questions and then he went all creepy angry on Paul, but he answered. I don't know... there are definitely things Sonny does not want to be asked about but there are also things he is finally acknowledging. Baby steps I guess :shrug: Maybe Paul should stop phrasing his questions as rhetorical assumptions about what Sonny is thinking and just ask what he's thinking in the moment more. It probably would have been a waste of time during the triangle of denial (see every conversation Sonny had during the triangle), but maybe it would work better now, who knows. Paul kind of starts a lot of their Paulson convos with, "Look, I know you/we" and I always think to myself... do you know?

That being said, I'm somewhat impatient and kind of just want Sonny to go for it but I have to remind myself it's only just been a year. I'm less bothered by waiting and more bothered by how the writers use the time. Like, if Paul's guilt is going to be a thing, make it a thing. Make Paul hesitant because of it. Make someone else accuse Paul of bearing responsibility (hello Kate). Make Sonny actually say it/feel this way. Do something with it or let it go because at this point, it just feels like Paul trying to find something to say to keep talking to him.
When Sonny reacted about them not being able to go there again and Paul agreed, Sonny looked teary eyes and dropped his head and then had the flashback...So I didn't buy what Sonny was saying.
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anzu


sonnyfan
Oct 13 2016, 02:01 AM
anzu
Oct 12 2016, 07:17 AM
Hugo
Oct 12 2016, 06:32 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeplogically. I mean sure Sonny keeps saying he don't blame Paul and perhaps that's true. But who knows deep down maybe there is a part of Sonny who blames Paul but more importantly Sonny blames himself. For perhaps the real reason why Sonny is so hesitated at allowing himself to be romantically involved with Paul is that Sonny feels he would betraying the memory of his husband? That would make complete sense. As Paul said, Sonny has this idea of right and wrong, and in Sonny's mind the idea of him allowing himself to become involved with the man his husband fought so hard against, would be wrong in Sonny's eyes despite his longing for Paul. That certainly would explain Sonny's capability at flirting with Paul on one hand and the very next hand he's snapping at him. But for the audience to see and understand that we need to see and understand the inner conflict that's driving Sonny's emotions. We should be seeing Sonny pouring out his inner thoughts to friends or perhaps even his family. I mean when was the last time Sonny had a deep, revealing talk with his mother?

As for Paul it is tiresome hearing him talking about his guilt over and over again. But then again it's always done on a superficial level. The moment Sonny tells him he doesn't blame him, Paul drops it at that moment, only to bring it back up when they see each other again. Perhaps it's time for Paul to be more forceful. When he brings up again instead of simply letting it go when Sonny says he doesn't blame him, Paul should ask him, "Well why don't you?" which is actually a very good question to ask, and when Sonny tries giving him a weak answer, Paul says, "Not good enough. There's more to it, Sonny I wanna hear it."
You know, even though they haven't had a deep convo in awhile, I actually think Sonny has been the most straight-forward he's ever been about the whole situation since he's been back. When he came to check on Paul, and Paul questioned him about what was actually going on between them, he, surprisingly, actually answered him finally. Granted, I didn't like the answer :blulaugh: and had like 5 follow-up questions and then he went all creepy angry on Paul, but he answered. I don't know... there are definitely things Sonny does not want to be asked about but there are also things he is finally acknowledging. Baby steps I guess :shrug: Maybe Paul should stop phrasing his questions as rhetorical assumptions about what Sonny is thinking and just ask what he's thinking in the moment more. It probably would have been a waste of time during the triangle of denial (see every conversation Sonny had during the triangle), but maybe it would work better now, who knows. Paul kind of starts a lot of their Paulson convos with, "Look, I know you/we" and I always think to myself... do you know?

That being said, I'm somewhat impatient and kind of just want Sonny to go for it but I have to remind myself it's only just been a year. I'm less bothered by waiting and more bothered by how the writers use the time. Like, if Paul's guilt is going to be a thing, make it a thing. Make Paul hesitant because of it. Make someone else accuse Paul of bearing responsibility (hello Kate). Make Sonny actually say it/feel this way. Do something with it or let it go because at this point, it just feels like Paul trying to find something to say to keep talking to him.
When Sonny reacted about them not being able to go there again and Paul agreed, Sonny looked teary eyes and dropped his head and then had the flashback...So I didn't buy what Sonny was saying.
I think what he was saying is true in that it's his rationale of why he is denying himself what he actually wants.
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lysie


Sindacco
Oct 13 2016, 01:01 AM
DaysBopeLuv
Oct 11 2016, 11:29 PM
When Clyde said what a good Dad Ben was all I could picture was little Thomas laying on the hotel bed all alone. Parents can actually be arrested for being that kind of great parent.
At least he put some pillows around the baby.
Dangerous at that age. Suffocation. Seriously.
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