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Friday, September 15, 2017 Episode Discussion
Topic Started: Sep 14 2017, 08:38 PM (11,218 Views)
Michael_WHIS


I've never known any of this to be a societal presumption other than a wife changing her last name to be the same as her husband's. There are so many different permutations. I have two gay male couples who got married and BOTH changed their last names (and retained their existing middle names) to be one hyphenated last name, a la Smith-Jones. They're Bob and Bill Smith-Jones, not Bob Jones Smith and Bill Smith Jones.
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SendSouvenirs
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Bryan was great. He's one of the more consistent actors the show has... it's just too bad Lucas is rarely ever written for consistently.

I kinda wish I didn't know Chandler was coming back, would have made the end more satisfying.

Every single younger couple the show has to offer is so boring, but it seems all of the energy is drained out of scenes when it involves Chad & Abby, Paul & Sonny.

Little Ari wins the entire episode for her pouty face.

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truluvpassions07
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I was so glad to hear Lucas call Paul a sanctimonious son of a bitch for breaking up Will and Sonny's marriage. Drunk Lucas speaks the truth and BD was absolutely fantastic today! It's about time someone gave Sonny just a little bit of hell for walking out and shacking up with Paul. The soapiness of this and seeing CM again as Will just made my day!!

I can't wait for Monday!!
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Graceland
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My son is not a homersexual.

HoritaFan
Sep 15 2017, 07:53 PM
Graceland
Sep 15 2017, 05:43 PM
HoritaFan
Sep 15 2017, 05:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Gays do what they want. I'm gay. My gay mates have taken their partner's surname the same as their hetero-counterparts. Some have chosen not to change their names at all.

Edit: the husband takes the wife's name???! Okay, you can sign-off now. :eyeroll:
Yes WHEN THE HUSBAND TAKES THE WIFE'S NAME. When the husband takes the wife's name the middle name is changed not the surname
EXAMPLE: (as stated) When John Lennon married Yoko One HE took HER name. His legal name after marriage and taking her name was John Ono Lennon. Their son is Sean Ono Lennon. I had a professor in college who took his wife's name. Same thing: his middle name was changed to her surname.

Couples, gay or str8, CAN stipulate arrangements other than the one presumed (ie: Husband takes wife's name. They hyphenate their names. They each keep their own names). The gay couple can make other choices but the presumption is either that there will be no name change or the middle name, not the surname will change. If no alternate choice is stated the presumption is assumed and followed.

Its not a requirement (there are none) its a presumption (just as its presumed the wife will take the husbands name). Its not required not a rule. Its assumed and few question it.
Anyway. :lol:
Edited by Graceland, Sep 15 2017, 09:14 PM.
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Graceland
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My son is not a homersexual.

lysie
Sep 15 2017, 08:21 PM
HoritaFan
Sep 15 2017, 07:53 PM
Graceland
Sep 15 2017, 05:43 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes WHEN THE HUSBAND TAKES THE WIFE'S NAME. When the husband takes the wife's name the middle name is changed not the surname
EXAMPLE: (as stated) When John Lennon married Yoko One HE took HER name. His legal name after marriage and taking her name was John Ono Lennon. Their son is Sean Ono Lennon. I had a professor in college who took his wife's name. Same thing: his middle name was changed to her surname.

Couples, gay or str8, CAN stipulate arrangements other than the one presumed (ie: Husband takes wife's name. They hyphenate their names. They each keep their own names). The gay couple can make other choices but the presumption is either that there will be no name change or the middle name, not the surname will change. If no alternate choice is stated the presumption is assumed and followed.

Its not a requirement (there are none) its a presumption (just as its presumed the wife will take the husbands name). Its not required not a rule. Its assumed and few question it.
The rest of us didn't realize we had to go by your presumptions and life experiences. Our bad.
My gay handbook must be outdated. All these rules and procedures seem to be missing. :wizard:
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Deverauxfan
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Bellarke <3

truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 09:09 PM
I was so glad to hear Lucas call Paul a sanctimonious son of a bitch for breaking up Will and Sonny's marriage. Drunk Lucas speaks the truth and BD was absolutely fantastic today! It's about time someone gave Sonny just a little bit of hell for walking out and shacking up with Paul. The soapiness of this and seeing CM again as Will just made my day!!

I can't wait for Monday!!
Paul didn't break up Will and Sonny's marriage. Will did that.

Will treated Sonny poorly before he left for LA. Then he cheated on him while he was there and then again when he came back when he screwed Paul. The fault for Wilson's break up wasn't on Paul.

Sonny had every right to leave Will. He didn't "shack up" with Paul until months after Will died. Sonny doesn't need to feel guilty for anything he has done.

I am NOT saying that Sonny was the perfect person.
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JarlenaLante
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Aw, Ari wants to spend time with her Grandpa Lucas!

Bryan was awesome today ... I totally love how he's getting such meaty material to play.

Kate is soooooooo much more watchable when she's in Lucas's orbit. After seeing her in Mama Bear mode today with Bonnie I need to see her tearing into Ben for how deeply he wounded Lucas. Especially when you consider how protective she's been of Lucas over the years.
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laurondo
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truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 09:09 PM
I was so glad to hear Lucas call Paul a sanctimonious son of a bitch for breaking up Will and Sonny's marriage. Drunk Lucas speaks the truth and BD was absolutely fantastic today! It's about time someone gave Sonny just a little bit of hell for walking out and shacking up with Paul. The soapiness of this and seeing CM again as Will just made my day!!

I can't wait for Monday!!
Will broke up their marriage, not Paul, lol

I did like that Lucas threw in his face the fact that Sonny runs away when there's a problem, though. I'm glad someone has finally mentioned it.
Edited by laurondo, Sep 15 2017, 10:24 PM.
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truluvpassions07
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Deverauxfan
Sep 15 2017, 10:02 PM
truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 09:09 PM
I was so glad to hear Lucas call Paul a sanctimonious son of a bitch for breaking up Will and Sonny's marriage. Drunk Lucas speaks the truth and BD was absolutely fantastic today! It's about time someone gave Sonny just a little bit of hell for walking out and shacking up with Paul. The soapiness of this and seeing CM again as Will just made my day!!

I can't wait for Monday!!
Paul didn't break up Will and Sonny's marriage. Will did that.

Will treated Sonny poorly before he left for LA. Then he cheated on him while he was there and then again when he came back when he screwed Paul. The fault for Wilson's break up wasn't on Paul.

Sonny had every right to leave Will. He didn't "shack up" with Paul until months after Will died. Sonny doesn't need to feel guilty for anything he has done.

I am NOT saying that Sonny was the perfect person.
Right...and Paul is completely innocent in this whole thing. Okay, then it must have been someone else that constantly kept themselves in Will and Sonny's orbit from the moment that he came to town and realized Sonny was in Salem. Stop being ridiculous.

Of course Will isn't blameless in this whole thing and he made a plethora of mistakes over the course of his marriage with Sonny. They both did. However, to sit there and act like Paul was some kind of saint and didn't act like a circling vulture hoping and waiting and wishing that Sonny would leave Will for him is outright denial and contorting the truth on multiple levels. Even despite Will's paranoia, he was absolutely right that Paul was never going to leave them alone to figure out how things went wrong in their marriage.

Of course Sonny had a right to leave Will. That's not really the point here. I don't blame him for that. Frankly, if he had gotten together with anyone but Paul after Will's "death", it wouldn't have been such an issue to many folks, myself included. It was lazy writing to stick him with Paul because if they were going to have him move on and grow as a character, they should have had him start over completely with someone brand new, not someone that had already played a part in destroying his marriage. Sonny has always felt some guilt over leaving and said so two years ago when Will died and it wouldn't be surprising if he still feels some of that now with the impending "wedding".

Bottom line -- this has be discussed, rehashed and debated countless times and we are never going to see eye to eye on it. You are welcome to stand by Paul all you want just like I am welcome to stand by Will. Let's just agree to disagree here and be done with it.
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laurondo
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truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 10:29 PM
Deverauxfan
Sep 15 2017, 10:02 PM
truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 09:09 PM
I was so glad to hear Lucas call Paul a sanctimonious son of a bitch for breaking up Will and Sonny's marriage. Drunk Lucas speaks the truth and BD was absolutely fantastic today! It's about time someone gave Sonny just a little bit of hell for walking out and shacking up with Paul. The soapiness of this and seeing CM again as Will just made my day!!

I can't wait for Monday!!
Paul didn't break up Will and Sonny's marriage. Will did that.

Will treated Sonny poorly before he left for LA. Then he cheated on him while he was there and then again when he came back when he screwed Paul. The fault for Wilson's break up wasn't on Paul.

Sonny had every right to leave Will. He didn't "shack up" with Paul until months after Will died. Sonny doesn't need to feel guilty for anything he has done.

I am NOT saying that Sonny was the perfect person.
Right...and Paul is completely innocent in this whole thing. Okay, then it must have been someone else that constantly kept themselves in Will and Sonny's orbit from the moment that he came to town and realized Sonny was in Salem. Stop being ridiculous.
I don't think they said Paul was completely innocent, lol? Just that he didn't break up their marriage. He didn't exactly help, no, but really the way their marriage ended was mostly Will's fault.
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No1_ILoveLucyFan
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Finally got to watch & I only have one word.


Lucas.
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truluvpassions07
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laurondo
Sep 15 2017, 10:32 PM
truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 10:29 PM
Deverauxfan
Sep 15 2017, 10:02 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Right...and Paul is completely innocent in this whole thing. Okay, then it must have been someone else that constantly kept themselves in Will and Sonny's orbit from the moment that he came to town and realized Sonny was in Salem. Stop being ridiculous.
I don't think they said Paul was completely innocent, lol? Just that he didn't break up their marriage. He didn't exactly help, no, but really the way their marriage ended was mostly Will's fault.
Sure Will had a lot to do with it and made a lot of mistakes. That's not up for debate. Will even admitted that himself before he was murdered that he was in the wrong. Again, not the issue here.

The point is that the implication was that Paul was totally blameless (thus the whole use of the word "innocent") and that is just patently untrue. Paul absolutely played a part in their breakup beyond the affair and his constant hovering, pressuring and interjecting himself into their lives while they tried to work on their marriage made it impossible for them to figure out what went wrong. You can sit there and pin the whole thing on Will all you want, fine, but to make it seem like Paul had zero responsibility for how things played out is utterly absurd. Paul knew exactly what he was doing and got exactly what he wanted.
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seanny
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laurondo
Sep 15 2017, 10:32 PM
truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 10:29 PM
Deverauxfan
Sep 15 2017, 10:02 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Right...and Paul is completely innocent in this whole thing. Okay, then it must have been someone else that constantly kept themselves in Will and Sonny's orbit from the moment that he came to town and realized Sonny was in Salem. Stop being ridiculous.
I don't think they said Paul was completely innocent, lol? Just that he didn't break up their marriage. He didn't exactly help, no, but really the way their marriage ended was mostly Will's fault.
Just pointing out that WilSon ended when Will died. Sonny had every intention of coming home from Paris to be with Will not Paul. Lucas was wrong in saying Paul ruined Will's marriage.
Edited by seanny, Sep 15 2017, 11:13 PM.
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tmjohn72
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I really enjoyed this episode. Lucas was featured prominently throughout the episode and I loved his scenes with Kate. I also loved Kate's protective mother moment with "Adrienne."

I was okay with the Chabby stuff even though I don't root for them. I just don't see any chemistry there. The John & Marlena scenes were also good.

I'm so glad I didn't have to see more Nicole/Brady/Eric. Knowing AZ is leaving spoils it for me and I can't get myself interested in the outcome.
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laurondo
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truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 10:50 PM
laurondo
Sep 15 2017, 10:32 PM
truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 10:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't think they said Paul was completely innocent, lol? Just that he didn't break up their marriage. He didn't exactly help, no, but really the way their marriage ended was mostly Will's fault.
Sure Will had a lot to do with it and made a lot of mistakes. That's not up for debate. Will even admitted that himself before he was murdered that he was in the wrong. Again, not the issue here.

The point is that the implication was that Paul was totally blameless (thus the whole use of the word "innocent") and that is just patently untrue. Paul absolutely played a part in their breakup beyond the affair and his constant hovering, pressuring and interjecting himself into their lives while they tried to work on their marriage made it impossible for them to figure out what went wrong. You can sit there and pin the whole thing on Will all you want, fine, but to make it seem like Paul had zero responsibility for how things played out is utterly absurd. Paul knew exactly what he was doing and got exactly what he wanted.
Their response to you never mentioned Paul being innocent.
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laurondo
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seanny
Sep 15 2017, 11:10 PM
laurondo
Sep 15 2017, 10:32 PM
truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 10:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't think they said Paul was completely innocent, lol? Just that he didn't break up their marriage. He didn't exactly help, no, but really the way their marriage ended was mostly Will's fault.
Just pointing out that WilSon ended when Will died. Sonny had every intention of coming home from Paris to be with Will not Paul. Lucas was wrong in saying Paul ruined Will's marriage.
Okay, you're right. So then I guess I should say that if their marriage had ended even if Will stayed alive, it would've been mostly on Will.
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steven hawk


truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 10:50 PM
laurondo
Sep 15 2017, 10:32 PM
truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 10:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't think they said Paul was completely innocent, lol? Just that he didn't break up their marriage. He didn't exactly help, no, but really the way their marriage ended was mostly Will's fault.
Sure Will had a lot to do with it and made a lot of mistakes. That's not up for debate. Will even admitted that himself before he was murdered that he was in the wrong. Again, not the issue here.

The point is that the implication was that Paul was totally blameless (thus the whole use of the word "innocent") and that is just patently untrue. Paul absolutely played a part in their breakup beyond the affair and his constant hovering, pressuring and interjecting himself into their lives while they tried to work on their marriage made it impossible for them to figure out what went wrong. You can sit there and pin the whole thing on Will all you want, fine, but to make it seem like Paul had zero responsibility for how things played out is utterly absurd. Paul knew exactly what he was doing and got exactly what he wanted.
After reading all these points I realized what it was that bothered me about GW's roll as Will. Remember this guy had to fill pretty big shoes because CM made this character quite popular, the problem with having a recast at this point in the story is that the character of Will was essential to the story. GW played this roll as snarky, curious,yet came across as very insecure, a bundle of nerves ready to explode,, it was hard for me to believe this guy would ever cheat. TPTB chose to play a story that should play to the strengths of the actor, this did not.... Now it didn't take me long to get used to GW in this roll,(it was easy to Imagine this guy to be gay) but it was the whole cheating issue that seemed so out of character for "GW's" version that made me lose interest.

CM's version of the character is different...Hated this recast out of the gate, yet LOVED his coming out story. Later when I was more used to this actor I kinda got the feeling at points(it was the way he was written I suppose) that he was as devious as her mom(Sami) and his influences at the time EJ and Stefano. Will's fascination with Stefano made me think TPTB were going to make Lucas Stefano's son. This makes me wonder if, had Chandler stayed in this roll if the cheating issue would have played more believable.

Also, from a s/l point, I really have to wonder if Will never really died, would he want to contact Sonny right away or would the devious side of Will give Paul enough rope to hang himself.
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dayssoapfan


Ok I am finally facing the facts. Chad and Abigail 2.0 have no chemistry. I hate that they are so dull together. There is no passion with them. What is with the high 5's they give each other? So bad!! Ugghhh. I so wanted to like them because I loved them before and I love Billy Flynn. This is a bummer.

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kay
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Kay

truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 10:29 PM
Deverauxfan
Sep 15 2017, 10:02 PM
truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 09:09 PM
I was so glad to hear Lucas call Paul a sanctimonious son of a bitch for breaking up Will and Sonny's marriage. Drunk Lucas speaks the truth and BD was absolutely fantastic today! It's about time someone gave Sonny just a little bit of hell for walking out and shacking up with Paul. The soapiness of this and seeing CM again as Will just made my day!!

I can't wait for Monday!!
Paul didn't break up Will and Sonny's marriage. Will did that.

Will treated Sonny poorly before he left for LA. Then he cheated on him while he was there and then again when he came back when he screwed Paul. The fault for Wilson's break up wasn't on Paul.

Sonny had every right to leave Will. He didn't "shack up" with Paul until months after Will died. Sonny doesn't need to feel guilty for anything he has done.

I am NOT saying that Sonny was the perfect person.
Right...and Paul is completely innocent in this whole thing. Okay, then it must have been someone else that constantly kept themselves in Will and Sonny's orbit from the moment that he came to town and realized Sonny was in Salem. Stop being ridiculous.

Of course Will isn't blameless in this whole thing and he made a plethora of mistakes over the course of his marriage with Sonny. They both did. However, to sit there and act like Paul was some kind of saint and didn't act like a circling vulture hoping and waiting and wishing that Sonny would leave Will for him is outright denial and contorting the truth on multiple levels. Even despite Will's paranoia, he was absolutely right that Paul was never going to leave them alone to figure out how things went wrong in their marriage.

Of course Sonny had a right to leave Will. That's not really the point here. I don't blame him for that. Frankly, if he had gotten together with anyone but Paul after Will's "death", it wouldn't have been such an issue to many folks, myself included. It was lazy writing to stick him with Paul because if they were going to have him move on and grow as a character, they should have had him start over completely with someone brand new, not someone that had already played a part in destroying his marriage. Sonny has always felt some guilt over leaving and said so two years ago when Will died and it wouldn't be surprising if he still feels some of that now with the impending "wedding".

Bottom line -- this has be discussed, rehashed and debated countless times and we are never going to see eye to eye on it. You are welcome to stand by Paul all you want just like I am welcome to stand by Will. Let's just agree to disagree here and be done with it.
I totally agree with you. Paul would not give up on the idea that Sonny should choose him. Even though Sonny continued to tell him he was committed to his marriage, Paul insisted that they were meant to be. It felt to me like Paul was a stalker because every where Sonny was, Paul made sure to be around.
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ElizBBrowning


truluvpassions07
Sep 15 2017, 09:09 PM
I was so glad to hear Lucas call Paul a sanctimonious son of a bitch for breaking up Will and Sonny's marriage. Drunk Lucas speaks the truth and BD was absolutely fantastic today! It's about time someone gave Sonny just a little bit of hell for walking out and shacking up with Paul. The soapiness of this and seeing CM again as Will just made my day!!

I can't wait for Monday!!
The only truth here in your post is that Lucas was absolutely fantastic today, and I agree with you that I can't wait for Monday, but:

The circumstances of Will and Sonny's marriage we saw on screen and any one who continues to want to blame Sonny and Paul for what Will did all by himself is IMO living in a dream world.

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