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Friday, October 27, 2017 Episode Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 26 2017, 06:29 PM (10,542 Views)
am103
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This episode bored me. Eve's return already has less of an impact because it mostly involves Victor and Brady, but I'm excited that KDP is back.
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seanny
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Today was another day where things felt rushed outside of the Eric/Brady fight and the Kiriakis prison scenes which were phenomenal . Too much communication is happening off screen with the search for Will story. It won't even get into the absurdity of Hope giving Sami the address.

I bet we get Eve's reintroduction and the new Scooby gang's arrival in Memphis again on Monday. They need to stop repeating scenes so much and insert scenes that matter instead.
Edited by seanny, Oct 28 2017, 12:57 AM.
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Lovejm


lysie
Oct 27 2017, 09:35 PM
KBrady
Oct 27 2017, 09:29 PM
2 returning characters today and Ron manages zero excitement out of it. He's made Wills return about Sami. He's taking for granted the audience cares this much about Sami. He's taking for granted we care this much about Sonny, Will and Paul. I thought it was just Dena who sucked the drama out of the show but Ron isn't so different.

Not to keep bringing up GH but the show today was exciting.
I'm pretty sure GH is having similar issues. I know of a lot of people hating it right now similarly to Days.
Between Sam getting drugged smack in the middle of a room full of people and Jason breaking through a skylight like the Hulk, if that would have happen on Days today I feel like we would have been talking about how ridiculous and unrealistic and what a stunt it was.

They’ve also wrapped the entire show around jason’s return. So similar to feedback here about Will, if you don’t love Jason (and his epic love with Sonny) it’s hard to enjoy GH right now.
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KMan101
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KBrady
Oct 27 2017, 09:29 PM
2 returning characters today and Ron manages zero excitement out of it. He's made Wills return about Sami. He's taking for granted the audience cares this much about Sami. He's taking for granted we care this much about Sonny, Will and Paul. I thought it was just Dena who sucked the drama out of the show but Ron isn't so different.

Not to keep bringing up GH but the show today was exciting.
And many viewers do care about them. I couldn't care less about Sami running around and shouting and screaming and getting arrested. My care for Sonny has sort of gone out of the window. I guess I care about Paul.

Just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't. The general audience is likely eating a lot of this up.

The show really has to do something about episode guarantees and story structure. Momentum gets lost. Something has to change.
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Lovejm


KMan101
Oct 28 2017, 08:44 AM
KBrady
Oct 27 2017, 09:29 PM
2 returning characters today and Ron manages zero excitement out of it. He's made Wills return about Sami. He's taking for granted the audience cares this much about Sami. He's taking for granted we care this much about Sonny, Will and Paul. I thought it was just Dena who sucked the drama out of the show but Ron isn't so different.

Not to keep bringing up GH but the show today was exciting.
And many viewers do care about them. I couldn't care less about Sami running around and shouting and screaming and getting arrested. My care for Sonny has sort of gone out of the window. I guess I care about Paul.

Just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't. The general audience is likely eating a lot of this up.

The show really has to do something about episode guarantees and story structure. Momentum gets lost. Something has to change.
Guarantees are a big problem. Right now you have some characters ron is clearly killing time with to meet guarantees, then you have other characters who need more episodes to keep momentum going and beats played in other stories.
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pspcindy
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The episode yesterday was good and moved story forward.

Adrienne is out of jail. The visit with Lucas may start Lucas on the road to recovery.

Jen helping Eric again seemed to enable him to get his perspective back a bit. I like that he realized that his precious, perfect Nicole is not. She ruins her relationships because she cannot trust and she lies. The truth would have made it impossible for Brady to stop her from doing what she wanted. If Eric being friends with Jennifer clears the Nicole is Perfect No Matter What She Does fog from his brain, I say let them be friends forever. I want to enjoy GV as Eric not roll my eyes and mutter hypocrite.

Brady has an epiphany of sorts too. I like EM and want Brady to do something besides fall in love for the umpteenth time. He can even be bad. Just do something else.

I almost screamed when Sami said the same line about Zach as Lunk. It's just wrong. She could have said simply what if it was your child? The Zach story is still so horrific that it seems crass to throw that in Hope's face. And I like Sami but not that dialogue.

The Eve reveal was so odd. It would have been so much better to have seen the black veiled woman out and about to make the characters and the audience wonder who it was. Then in the graveyard-it's Eve. Oh well. Still hoping Kassie gives us some good drama.
Edited by pspcindy, Oct 28 2017, 12:47 PM.
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Daysfanatic79
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Kenny
Oct 27 2017, 02:50 PM
Daysfanatic79
Oct 27 2017, 02:15 PM
...but can Lucas stop being a drunk so I can stand Bryan again?..STAT! [/b] He talks so nasal and he's not even believable. It's like a hyper annoying character, with a slight Alabama drawl. It's grating me.
Ron must be annoyed writing for this cast. He gives our biggest star (Deidre) a dual role storyline and she completely fumbles it. He gives Bryan Dattilo something of substance for the first time in a decade or more and all he does is show why the last 8 regimes were right for not writing for him. Dude can't act. And he's been in the game since 1993. Sad. Then there's Ali Sweeney, who sucks as much now as she ever has. Ron would never admit it but you know in his private thoughts he's like"Jesus, these people suck. I can't write ANYTHING for them!"

Thankfully Judi Evans knocked it out of the park as Bonnie but now that's over now, so...
I think Deidre was fine, but love does cover a multitude of sins. I am a HUGE fan of Dee, so for me to say I'm unbiased is a complete lie. At least I'll admit that on here. So, I like Hattie, but that's probably because I like Deidre. So many hated the story...so I have to conclude it went wrong.

ITA on everything else you said. Bryan is terrible right now. Ali is unwatchable most of the time.

As far as Bonnie, Judi had moments of brilliance, but there were moments for me that were unbearably annoying. It cancelled each other out for me.

I can trust Eileen Davidson to make any scene fun to watch. Her interview scared me though. Kristen, of all the characters on Days, cannot and should never be "Redeemed". It would take a year to play that out, and then I'd be angry as hell. The only bad ass bitch left to draw from has to stay a bad ass bitch. That's the whole point.

Ron is the best HW we have had in some time. He is not brilliant, but he is entertaining. The cast has dropped the ball on some of the stories, and he needs to bring on some good breakdown writers immediately. Sadly, we have 6 months of shows, and I know of a couple of small shake ups, but nothing of note that would change the dynamic and pacing on here.

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KBrady
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Lovejm
Oct 28 2017, 08:35 AM
lysie
Oct 27 2017, 09:35 PM
KBrady
Oct 27 2017, 09:29 PM
2 returning characters today and Ron manages zero excitement out of it. He's made Wills return about Sami. He's taking for granted the audience cares this much about Sami. He's taking for granted we care this much about Sonny, Will and Paul. I thought it was just Dena who sucked the drama out of the show but Ron isn't so different.

Not to keep bringing up GH but the show today was exciting.
I'm pretty sure GH is having similar issues. I know of a lot of people hating it right now similarly to Days.
Between Sam getting drugged smack in the middle of a room full of people and Jason breaking through a skylight like the Hulk, if that would have happen on Days today I feel like we would have been talking about how ridiculous and unrealistic and what a stunt it was.

They’ve also wrapped the entire show around jason’s return. So similar to feedback here about Will, if you don’t love Jason (and his epic love with Sonny) it’s hard to enjoy GH right now.
I don't really care about Jason. I don't care about Jason and Sam. I hate Sonny and Carly. But I tuned again because I still want to see his return. I guess mostly to see how characters like Monica and Sam react to his return.
I've read some of the same criticism you have about GH and I've also read some raves but I'm only talking about how I'm reacting to the 2 shows. I think GH has done a good job with pacing and writing good scenes that make me feel for the characters involved. Its been mostly exciting. Yesterdays GH was exciting. I don't have a problem with Sam getting kidnapped or Jason jumping from the ceiling. It was an exciting Friday cliffhanger and its classic soap.

Days is just a drag to get thru most days. It's boring! I don't care about Will but with a proper storytelling I could enjoy it. I feel the characters are having the same conversation it in every episode. Stunt casting with AS and making it all about Sami isn't doing the storyline any favors. Characters like Hope and Marlena feel irrelevant because Ron is writing mostly for Sami. I also don't care about Sonny, Paul and Will love triangle so that doesn't help either. FS sucked yesterday yet we're stuck with him in this big storyline. It's not fun.
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lysie


I’ve been complaining about the cast, but I take issue with the idea of the cast dropping the ball. I think the current cast is boring. But overall I don’t think they’re ruining otherwise good story. The Bonnie story was bad. It was written badly. I don’t like JE, but the story wouldn’t have been any better with a different actor in her place. I think the Hattie story started weakly but picked up. But again, it wouldn’t have been any different with a different actor.

My issue with the cast is more that the current cast of characters is dull. None of the main cast are the kinds of characters that drive conflict. That’s why every single return has been that kind of character. Some of the cast that I find the most boring would be fine if they had better people to go up against. But look at JJ, Lani, and Eli. They’re all basically the same character except one wasn’t a retcon. All three actors have potential but none really bring anything unique to the canvas.

I think MM is a terrible actor, but Abby’s story wouldn’t be any better with km or ab in the role. It might be more palatable (and the Ben scenes might have had a different effect) but the overall story would still be really bad.

Ron’s new and there are some positives (I don’t think he has destroyed any characters, I think they’re doing better with family, sometimes they hit lots of beats they wouldn’t have before) but he’s not writing a good show that the actors are just squandering.
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KBrady
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Quote:
 
Guarantees are a big problem. Right now you have some characters ron is clearly killing time with to meet guarantees, then you have other characters who need more episodes to keep momentum going and beats played in other stories.


I don't follow this stuff as close as some of you all or now how it all works but maybe Ron should be writing big stories for the actors he has on contract instead of big stories for actors who are recurring. Maybe it wouldn't feel like he's just killing time to meet an actors guarantee.
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Lovejm


KBrady
Oct 28 2017, 09:30 AM
Quote:
 
Guarantees are a big problem. Right now you have some characters ron is clearly killing time with to meet guarantees, then you have other characters who need more episodes to keep momentum going and beats played in other stories.


I don't follow this stuff as close as some of you all or now how it all works but maybe Ron should be writing big stories for the actors he has on contract instead of big stories for actors who are recurring. Maybe it wouldn't feel like he's just killing time to meet an actors guarantee.
That’s really just Justin and Adrienne though. JA is a different story with his lack of contract. I don’t blame ron for writing to reunite J&A, Dena should have and botched it. I think there was a much better way to do it though instead of the story being about Bonnie. But even that’s just one story.

We’re going to have the issue with guarantees with JJ/Theo too, Abe had to disappear for a month to save episodes for what’s ahead I’m sure. J&M have had five offspring in major stories and are on more than before but still have to miss episodes they should be in. Meanwhile, Chabby have sat in bed or on the couch for 10 episodes and Eli and Gabi had the same conversation 6 times.
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esp13
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I don't know that the guarantees are really an issue. Yes, there have to be stories other than just Will going on to meet some of those, but that's always been the case. There are always B and C stories going on behind the A story.

To me, the Will story lost it's momentum the day that Sami hit town. We had Paul and John ready to dig up the grave, creating some dramatic tension and the Sami shows up and we spend a week with her wandering around town talking to people. Technically, the Will story played every day that week, but it was about Sami, not really about finding Will. There is no reason it had to be that way other than Ron wanting to have Sami wandering around town for a week. Sure, the Bonne story came to a head in the midst of all that, but it could have run concurrently to the search for Will as it didn't involve the same people at all. Instead, the show wasted 5-7 days focusing on Sami when they could have sped that up a lot. So yeah, the pacing is off, but I don't think the guarantees are the issue as much as some writing choices.
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KMan101
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Lovejm
Oct 28 2017, 08:48 AM
KMan101
Oct 28 2017, 08:44 AM
KBrady
Oct 27 2017, 09:29 PM
2 returning characters today and Ron manages zero excitement out of it. He's made Wills return about Sami. He's taking for granted the audience cares this much about Sami. He's taking for granted we care this much about Sonny, Will and Paul. I thought it was just Dena who sucked the drama out of the show but Ron isn't so different.

Not to keep bringing up GH but the show today was exciting.
And many viewers do care about them. I couldn't care less about Sami running around and shouting and screaming and getting arrested. My care for Sonny has sort of gone out of the window. I guess I care about Paul.

Just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't. The general audience is likely eating a lot of this up.

The show really has to do something about episode guarantees and story structure. Momentum gets lost. Something has to change.
Guarantees are a big problem. Right now you have some characters ron is clearly killing time with to meet guarantees, then you have other characters who need more episodes to keep momentum going and beats played in other stories.
Exactly. Guarantees are clearly an issue (among other things).

I haven't commented on daily episodes for a while only because I got behind at one point and have been finally catching up. I still think the show is more watchable now than under Dena and at times under Tomsell, but pacing is bad. Some episodes are good, others are blah. There needs to be better balance. One week I feel like the canvas is connected the next week it seems all over the place. Last week was sort of a chore to get through. I know Lysie has mentioned some of this lately and I have to say I agree.
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lysie


KBrady
Oct 28 2017, 09:30 AM
Quote:
 
Guarantees are a big problem. Right now you have some characters ron is clearly killing time with to meet guarantees, then you have other characters who need more episodes to keep momentum going and beats played in other stories.


I don't follow this stuff as close as some of you all or now how it all works but maybe Ron should be writing big stories for the actors he has on contract instead of big stories for actors who are recurring. Maybe it wouldn't feel like he's just killing time to meet an actors guarantee.
I don’t disagree at all but it’s easier to do the recurring actors because they’re not limited in the same way. Until they up some of the guarantees, idk how they can really focus a story on anyone.
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lysie


esp13
Oct 28 2017, 09:45 AM
I don't know that the guarantees are really an issue. Yes, there have to be stories other than just Will going on to meet some of those, but that's always been the case. There are always B and C stories going on behind the A story.

To me, the Will story lost it's momentum the day that Sami hit town. We had Paul and John ready to dig up the grave, creating some dramatic tension and the Sami shows up and we spend a week with her wandering around town talking to people. Technically, the Will story played every day that week, but it was about Sami, not really about finding Will. There is no reason it had to be that way other than Ron wanting to have Sami wandering around town for a week. Sure, the Bonne story came to a head in the midst of all that, but it could have run concurrently to the search for Will as it didn't involve the same people at all. Instead, the show wasted 5-7 days focusing on Sami when they could have sped that up a lot. So yeah, the pacing is off, but I don't think the guarantees are the issue as much as some writing choices.
When all but 4ish people have less than a 2 day guarantee, it’s impossible to tell stories like they used to. The issue with Sami was at least partially that they needed to save episodes for all the other people involved.
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KMan101
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esp13
Oct 28 2017, 09:45 AM
I don't know that the guarantees are really an issue. Yes, there have to be stories other than just Will going on to meet some of those, but that's always been the case. There are always B and C stories going on behind the A story.

To me, the Will story lost it's momentum the day that Sami hit town. We had Paul and John ready to dig up the grave, creating some dramatic tension and the Sami shows up and we spend a week with her wandering around town talking to people. Technically, the Will story played every day that week, but it was about Sami, not really about finding Will. There is no reason it had to be that way other than Ron wanting to have Sami wandering around town for a week. Sure, the Bonne story came to a head in the midst of all that, but it could have run concurrently to the search for Will as it didn't involve the same people at all. Instead, the show wasted 5-7 days focusing on Sami when they could have sped that up a lot. So yeah, the pacing is off, but I don't think the guarantees are the issue as much as some writing choices.
I think episode guarantees ARE an issue. As is the pacing/structure of the story. I don't expect someone on 4-5 days a week but one or two appearances, a break, one or two episodes, you can't tell a story that way that keeps any momentum going.

I get wanting Sami to interact with people in her return but I agree that when Sami didn't grab that shovel and start digging herself (although I also think Sami calling the cops on John and Paul is also something she'd do) that the momentum died. But then John and Marlena and Sonny and Paul became an afterthought. I also think they wasted time having Sami being arrested. And continuing to be arrested. I guess Ron finds it amusing but, even if it's just for an episode or two, it seems like a waste of time. This is when I get annoyed by Ron's campy storytelling. Sometimes it's almost like a parody. But I still feel like the show is in good hands, as of now, with him.

I'm also not sure how I feel on the Eve/Deimos connection. I sort of get why he did it, but I'd rather have had Eve go after custody of Tate. Does anyone really care or need to see her stir up trouble for Victor, Naggie or Scummy Brady? I sure don't. I'd like all three of them to go on a long vacation together.

But I really like Kassie so I'm not against Eve's return, it just seems like it could be more forced than it needed to be but I'll try and wait and see.

One of the problems is that Ron seems to be trying to do too much and not necessarily doing the story justice. You have the search for Will. You had Nicole leaving town. You had Bonnie being exposed. It was as if we'd take a break from each in order to tell the other and I think they can do a better job of balancing it all. But then I think that's where episode guarantees come into play. If most actors have 1-2 episode guarantees, that's a problem to me.
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Lovejm


esp13
Oct 28 2017, 09:45 AM
I don't know that the guarantees are really an issue. Yes, there have to be stories other than just Will going on to meet some of those, but that's always been the case. There are always B and C stories going on behind the A story.

To me, the Will story lost it's momentum the day that Sami hit town. We had Paul and John ready to dig up the grave, creating some dramatic tension and the Sami shows up and we spend a week with her wandering around town talking to people. Technically, the Will story played every day that week, but it was about Sami, not really about finding Will. There is no reason it had to be that way other than Ron wanting to have Sami wandering around town for a week. Sure, the Bonne story came to a head in the midst of all that, but it could have run concurrently to the search for Will as it didn't involve the same people at all. Instead, the show wasted 5-7 days focusing on Sami when they could have sped that up a lot. So yeah, the pacing is off, but I don't think the guarantees are the issue as much as some writing choices.
My point is more in the guarantees we’re watching be burned that are stopping momentum. I think chabby and Gabi are the best example. Chad and Abby are the episode leaders under ron and have done nothing except get married.
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esp13
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I wasn't saying that episode guarantees have no impact, just that the pacing problems aren't entirely about that, IMO. And there are ways around the guarantees. Maybe instead of paying AS for 5 days of wandering around Salem, they could have paid other characters for an extra day that week? And even if using Sami that way was solely about guarantee issues, it doesn't excuse not using her better. She could have been the focus and also kept momentum going in the story by driving action instead of inaction.

I get that budget restrictions, including guarantees, impact how they can tell a story. But this isn't a new thing and if they can't figure out how to tell the story in those restrictions, them maybe they should tell a different story or tell it in a different way.
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lysie


esp13
Oct 28 2017, 10:02 AM
I wasn't saying that episode guarantees have no impact, just that the pacing problems aren't entirely about that, IMO. And there are ways around the guarantees. Maybe instead of paying AS for 5 days of wandering around Salem, they could have paid other characters for an extra day that week? And even if using Sami that way was solely about guarantee issues, it doesn't excuse not using her better. She could have been the focus and also kept momentum going in the story by driving action instead of inaction.

I get that budget restrictions, including guarantees, impact how they can tell a story. But this isn't a new thing and if they can't figure out how to tell the story in those restrictions, them maybe they should tell a different story or tell it in a different way.
IDK about it not being a new thing. These freakishly low guarantees ARE relatively new, and since they've happened, we've yet to have a writer figure out how to do it effectively. I think it's impossible which is why I think they should cut back majorly on their contract cast and have a ton of recurring.
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cord08
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With the exception of a few weeks, I haven't really had a big problem with the pacing. Yes, I find many episodes boring and draggy, but it actually feels like pretty typical soap pacing again. For years, I've been complaining about them rushing through stories and skipping a million beats, and I generally don't feel that way anymore.

The few problems I have had with the pacing involve the points at which certain stories have been dropped and picked up again. If the writers could create more natural lulls in the story that would enable them to move on to a different story for a while, I think it would be better.
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