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Days:SOD Spoilers; *rest of previews added on page 2*
Topic Started: Aug 22 2007, 11:12 AM (4,417 Views)
px780
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Streetcorner Philosopher

SteveFrame
Aug 22 2007, 10:53 PM
I am afraid that is what he is doing to me with Sami. I definitely don't like this version.

Don't even get me started. She should transition to a heroine THROUGH this story, not so this story can play out.

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Was Hogan really that good last fall or was he just new and different?

I think you hit it when you mentioned wrapping up old plots. It's not the quality of the new stuff that matters; what's important is giving viewers a sense of relief by editing out the worst parts when things turn to total crap.

It's not even Hogan's doing, imho, even though particulars may echo problems he's demonstrated in the past. This is a defined Days pattern. The showrunners are very savvy at using the press and promos to help create excitement and hype (how many times has Days been saved?) without truly enhancing the quality of the product. And I think they're getting good at knowing just how far to let the show sink before cutting the worst part and leaving us relieved with whatever's left (I'm not sure yet but the limit seems to be involving Max).

It's smart, in a way, because it's easy. The inherent quality of the show is irrelevant for months at a time because people are excited about possibilities and relieved that whatever was worst about the previous period is gone. No more Willow! Promises of Dimeras! Mascolo rehired! Doug and Julie, too!...reading letters...about boring dead people with funny accents...while young people- including two newbies and a recast- Touch the Sky every single day...until...

Ed Scott! He'll save it!

But hey- I buy it every time they do it, and I'm going to ride this Scott wave, so props to them. Get the enjoyment where you can, right?
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Sephora
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I have to wonder with word of reshoots and weekend shooting if all these will actually play out. Generally this type of story is gathered a month or so before it goes to press. What if with all the behind the scenes shake ups very little of this happens?

I just hope they dump Touch this Guy and move on. Forget the college crap too. Give these "teens" one day a week and go with the vets and the DiMeras. Not that I'm a J/M fan but I like Bo and Hope and if written right could like Steve and Kayla again.

Make Sami bad again. Isn't that what Hoggie keeps saying people are telling him? So why isn't he doing it? No one I know likes Pod-Sami, they want the bad girl.

SteveFrame ~ you said this swiss cheese writing is his style? Heaven help me then because I hate this "style." I like my plot points filled in. I want to know what Lucas' reaction was to seeing Santo's picture. I want to know how Sami's family found out about December 29th. I want the blanks filled in.
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Steve Frame
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Yes Sephora sadly it is his style. The things we see as important little things, he doesn't. I am not sure if it is because he is not familiar with soap writing not being a former soap writer, but it has always been characteristic of his writing. And after winning 4 Emmys I am sure he feels like he doesn't have to change that.

I agree with you though that I like things filled in and not to be left wondering. And it is those little things that help to give connection to the story and add those little dramatic points that give the story spark too and help to understand motives, reactions, etc.

And Px the last part of your post is very typical. And we as Days fans have bought into it. But I see a majority of Days fans who are not buying it anymore. And sadly Corday is killing his audience little by little without any hope of getting them back by continuing to make promises and not delivering.

People can talk about the fanbases all they want. But Corday and gang created the fanbases and have used them over the years. Hell they even encourage things like Sheetgate and the sending of the M&M's etc. They want to stir up things, but in 2006 Corday made promises (maybe not publicly but inadvertently) that he supported Jack and gave the Jack/Jennifer fan base hope at finally getting a story. What does he do when it is time to make cuts? Jack is one of the first ones to go. Many of the J/J fan base up and walked away and have not come back.

Did he learn? Hell no.

He backburners Days 2 biggest/long term couples in 2007. Fans were revolted and bolted out the door. Damn fool that he is makes promises. I'm gonna give Bo/Hope and John/Marlena story he basically says. Well both couples are still looking for their story.

John & Marlena basically have nothing to do as I have said. Bo & Hope work on the outerfringe of the DiMera/Brady story and are seen making some people believe they are involved but they could easily be removed from the story and it would still go on.

And now the rumor is that he is killing off John. This rumor comes at the same time he starts a new story for Steve/Kayla and for Philip which affects story for Shawn/Belle who are 5 of the folks who have already been front and center much of 2007 with a few months off but for Steve/Kayla most of that was due to Evans' being off to do Soap Star.

I firmly believe Corday will kill off John. He will foolishly think again that this is best for the show, and will honestly think that even bad publicity is good publicity. But after 2 years of angering the Jarlena fan base like he did the J/J fanbase, I am sure many of them will walk away.

Sure people should watch for more than just one couple or because of one couple. But sadly with Days esp. that ain't the way it is. Most every show has those fans, and in this day and time with ratings as they are and a show struggling to survive - you don't fuck with a large portion of your fan base over and over. Now I don't believe that any fan base should hold a show captive, but at the same time production shouldn't constantly make false promises either. And esp. when a show is struggling to survive and could be cancelled is it the right time to fuck off a big fan base esp. when you backburnered that fan base into oblivion and the ratings dropped big time. Sure you can blame it on something else and believe that is the problem. But when you can't prove that you are taking a big chance.

I just hope Ed Scott can restore some balance and integrity to the production department at Days. They need to let him start speaking, because I don't believe a damn thing that comes out of Corday or HOgan's mouth. They both just as soon lie as even remotely tell the truth.

All I can wonder at this point is with many fans losing faith in Days and it's staff, when is the breaking point for a fan. When will they lose so much faith that they do just walk away and never return. For me with some shows it has already happened. I don't feel anything at all about OLTL anymore because I can't trust them. I am still passionate about Days and AMC - so I know that someday I will watch faithfully again - at least for now I do. But there is a breaking point. And Corday just keeps getting closer and closer to it for me and for many fans. There is going to be that one time when I and many others don't buy his next plan to save Days.
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☼ Jinx ☼
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Live. Love. Laugh. ♥

My only concern is, if John gets killed off, where does that leave Marlena? There is no room for her on the show anymore. I can't see her going on as a character without John. I would more than anything hate if they took her back to Roman in that case.
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KMan101
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Marlena was a character in her own right before John and will be after John. Why can't people see that these characters CAN stand on their own, be it a part of a supercouple or not?
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

KMan101
Aug 23 2007, 10:33 AM
Marlena was a character in her own right before John and will be after John. Why can't people see that these characters CAN stand on their own, be it a part of a supercouple or not?

I don't blame fans for wondering what Marlena will do without John when the show has made the mistake of having Marlena's pretty much ONLY concern in life be John for the last 10 years or so.

I would love a big Marlena story on her own dealing with the grief of John's death and throwing herself into her work as a psychiatrist but I doubt there is any way in hell Sheffer will give that to us with John gone. If we want to see Marlena we'll be LUCKY if she gets thrown back in with Roman.
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Steve Frame
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KMan101
Aug 23 2007, 10:33 AM
Marlena was a character in her own right before John and will be after John. Why can't people see that these characters CAN stand on their own, be it a part of a supercouple or not?

Under another writer I could buy it too. At Days women are no longer seen as anything unless they are wife/part of a supercouple or mother. That will be Marlena's sole existence now.

Look at the only way Hogan can write for Kate. Either she is a sex strumpet having sex with EJ on her desk or the meddling mother again. There is more to Kate than that but is it shown - NO.

Just as Aremid said they have shown her not to have any existence outside of John. She is only a pyschiatrist very little now. Used to the majority of her scenes took place at the hospital. Now she is hardly ever shown there. It is not that big of a part of the character anymore. So it is hard to think of anything for her outside of John.

If Hogan kills John off, and they do write a story for Marlena I will be the first to eat pie and I'll go further I'll eat a pair of my dirty underwear. But I doubt very seriously it will ever happen. I have watched Hogan's writing on daytime for going on 6 years now. Marlena is not in the demo of character he writes for, and he has proven all along he doesn't want to write for John & Marlena.

So I don't think I will have any fears of having to eat my shorts. If John is killed it will be about everyone else but Marlena and most likely about Sami. It will focus on how she should have forgiven him a lot sooner.
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

OK I have a question, Steve, since you mention watching Sheffer for six years now.

I happen to think Sheffer's writing is very misogynistic and I'm just curious if you saw those same threads in his ATWT stories.

I think it must all have to do with Sheffer's mistaken (and IMO male-centered) belief that daytime is about seduction thus everything has to be about sex and lust and titilation. IMO daytime is about romance so I think that is why I hate his writing so much.
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Y&RWorldTurner
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Sharongate, bitches!

IMissAremid
Aug 23 2007, 01:54 PM
OK I have a question, Steve, since you mention watching Sheffer for six years now.

I happen to think Sheffer's writing is very misogynistic and I'm just curious if you saw those same threads in his ATWT stories.

I think it must all have to do with Sheffer's mistaken (and IMO male-centered) belief that daytime is about seduction thus everything has to be about sex and lust and titilation. IMO daytime is about romance so I think that is why I hate his writing so much.

Really, I don't think it's worth comparing his work on Days to that on ATWT. On ATWT had an extremely gifted staff of writers WHO KNEW THE HISTORY OF THE SHOW. Carolyn Culliton in particular really helped him in this respect, at least for his for two years then. He doesn't really have that on Days, in fact he's always hiring newbie writers who've never written for the show before. That's beyond deplorable. Even though I detest her, he worked with Leah Laiman on ATWT and she had history with Days, why doesn't he try to sway her over? He'd at least have someone who is familiar with the show and there to balance out his crap..

As for writing for women on ATWT, it was pretty much a mixed bag. I think his initial writing for characters like Barbara, Lily/Rose, Molly, and Rosanna was quite good. I hated some of the crap he spewed out for Carly and Katie though. Oh, and also, this whole back-burning the vets isn't nothing new for Hogan. He hardly wrote for anyone over 40 on ATWT, barring Barbara, who was a rare exception.
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Steve Frame
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I don't think he was that misogynistic at ATWT. He wrote women fairly. Both Barbara and Carly had roles in the fashion world but there was a misogynistic tone in that the men controlled everything. Barbara had the money but it was Craig who sort of controlled things, and then Barbara couldn't get out of things alone and had to depend on her son to get her out of it. Carly couldn't make it in the fashion world alone but had to depend on Craig to make it happen.

I think part of that is the reason he didn't write for Lucinda that much, because she was always a strong woman. Same for Lisa plus their age.

Alvin is right in that he had a lot of help. But even that help didn't help the vets any. And to the other theme poor old Margo was the only female cop and never got an investigation of her own. She even spoke out about this. It was the men who did the investigating and Margo helped them.

Remember Hogan said he was coming back to Days to give the men their penises. He has made the men stronger but he has ruined the women.

Sami and Kate were women with balls and they don't have them anymore. To me for poor Kate he has turned her even more of a psycho Mom than she has been in the past. Sami is just a pitiful shell of the woman I knew and loved. As I have said before other shows have turned bad girls good without making them wimps. Why does Sami have to be one?

I just don't think HOgan knows how to write women. He doesn't know how to write older people at all and he doesn't know how to write women. Just 2 of his weaknesses.

He admitted openly that he didn't know what to do with the vets like Lisa and Lucinda which I never understood why. I mean how hard is it to write something for strong business women who own half of the businesses in town. They both owned newspapers. Lucinda was CEO of a big company and Lisa owned the hotel and restaurant plus a ladies designer clothing store. When you have that much to work with from past writers, you should at least have something to work with.
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DaysFanJean
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Marlena was a star of Days long before John appeared. In fact, I stopped watching because of John's appearance in days gone by. I never liked him with Marlena. I learned to like him separately from her, but hate him still with her. I'll cheer when he is gone. True Marlena fans will not walk away. In fact, those like me, will be very happy the troll is gone.

Bo and Hope are a couple because they became one almost as soon as they were on the screen as grownups. It never was a Bo or a Hope.

I deplore Jack and Jen, but love Jack alone. Jen is one character I never liked after she was a little girl.

What scares me about Ed Scott is if he listens to the rabid fan bases. There are many who do not subscribe to rabid ideas. I think ideally each character should be measured for their own place in the stories. The are two seperate people, not joined at the brain (or hip) as one.
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Sephora
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DaysFanJean
Aug 23 2007, 03:43 PM
What scares me about Ed Scott is if he listens to the rabid fan bases. There are many who do not subscribe to rabid ideas. I think ideally each character should be measured for their own place in the stories. The are two seperate people, not joined at the brain (or hip) as one.

I don't get the impression at this point Ed Scott will be listening to the rabid fan bases as it is quite obvious that listening to them has not helped Days in the least. And Ed Scott is a fan of the show not someone who wouldn't know who Tom Horton was if they drew him a picture, a family tree, and sent him a tape. I believe that bodes well for people tired of rabid fan bases running the show.

I might like Marlena again if something can be done with her character. What they've turned her into is just YUCK for lack of a better word. Ever since the Alex North/amnesia debacle I havent been able to stand the character.
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Days4Life
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DaysFanJean
Aug 23 2007, 01:43 PM


What scares me about Ed Scott is if he listens to the rabid fan bases. There are many who do not subscribe to rabid ideas. I think ideally each character should be measured for their own place in the stories. The are two seperate people, not joined at the brain (or hip) as one.

I know very little about the behind the scenes workings and have heard a lot of different opinions as to how much Ed Scott will be involved in the writing, but I would hope that this show is not being scripted based on the rabid fanbases. If it is, DAYS is doomed. Although the fanbases are very vocal and not at all shy about promoting their own agendas, I believe they are not representative of the majority of the viewers.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that if Hogan is to stay as HW, they need to bring in a different co-HW, someone who knows the history of DAYS and what makes it special. Although there have been some improvements, DAYS is still not back to being the show I've watched for most of my life. The only thing that's kept me watching most of this summer, through this awful Touch the Sky crap, is habit and the much too sporadic appearances by the Dimeras, Bo and Hope, Doug and Julie.
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Days4Life
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Sephora
Aug 23 2007, 01:53 PM
I don't get the impression at this point Ed Scott will be listening to the rabid fan bases as it is quite obvious that listening to them has not helped Days in the least. And Ed Scott is a fan of the show not someone who wouldn't know who Tom Horton was if they drew him a picture, a family tree, and sent him a tape. I believe that bodes well for people tired of rabid fan bases running the show.


I hope you're right.
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DOOL_Fan4ever
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I am Secretly Gay!

days will do just fine with john, the only vets days need is bo and hope and marlena, steve and kayla
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DOOL_Fan4ever
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I am Secretly Gay!

there should only be 3 fanbases running the show:

EJAMI, BOPE, CHICK

EJ, Sami, Bo and Hope, Nick and Chelsea makes days.
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ArizonaDaze
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DaysFanJean
Aug 23 2007, 02:43 PM
Marlena was a star of Days long before John appeared. In fact, I stopped watching because of John's appearance in days gone by. I never liked him with Marlena. I learned to like him separately from her, but hate him still with her. I'll cheer when he is gone. True Marlena fans will not walk away. In fact, those like me, will be very happy the troll is gone.

Bo and Hope are a couple because they became one almost as soon as they were on the screen as grownups. It never was a Bo or a Hope.

I deplore Jack and Jen, but love Jack alone. Jen is one character I never liked after she was a little girl.

What scares me about Ed Scott is if he listens to the rabid fan bases. There are many who do not subscribe to rabid ideas. I think ideally each character should be measured for their own place in the stories. The are two seperate people, not joined at the brain (or hip) as one.

This is so true Jean. I get tired of watching stories that make women so needy. It isn't 1950 any more when all women did was stay home and clean and raise babies! Give our Days women their balls back!
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Steve Frame
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DOOL_Fan4ever
Aug 23 2007, 03:27 PM
there should only be 3 fanbases running the show:

EJAMI, BOPE, CHICK

EJ, Sami, Bo and Hope, Nick and Chelsea makes days.

It is thinking like that which will bring the cancellation axe and lower ratings. Ask yourself - is that what you want????????

That is precisely Hogan's thinking and Corday's too. And look what it is doing for the show.
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Days4Life
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DOOL_Fan4ever
Aug 23 2007, 02:27 PM
there should only be 3 fanbases running the show:

EJAMI, BOPE, CHICK

EJ, Sami, Bo and Hope, Nick and Chelsea makes days.

There should be NO fanbases running the show.
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psychofan
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#1 Fan of Daytime Psychos!

DOOL_Fan4ever
Aug 23 2007, 03:27 PM
there should only be 3 fanbases running the show:

EJAMI, BOPE, CHICK

EJ, Sami, Bo and Hope, Nick and Chelsea makes days.

Words can't describe the hate I have for that post. Get real.

My guess is that if John dies, it won't be long until Deidre Hall gets bumped to recurring and we see her once a month as a foil for Belle and Sami.

...and you know, I expect crap like that from Sheffer....but not Corday. I thought that even though he was an idiot, he still knew what characters and stories were good and bad and that he embraced the history of the show and especially characters like Marlena...but I guess I was wrong. *sigh*
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