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SOW: Hogestyn Out?!
Topic Started: Aug 30 2007, 09:44 AM (3,949 Views)
px780
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Streetcorner Philosopher

If the ratings did drop around the time John was in the coma I don't think anyone could successfully argue the drop was caused by his absence. The whole show was garbage for awhile, Willow the Whore was around, and it's not like John was frontburner immediately prior to the coma.

Any death on this show is open-ended, whether there's a body or not. So they might as well just go for it, imho.
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DaysFanJean
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If I weren't so tired or lazy, I'd go look up the old ratings. What I do remember is that the ratings did begin to fall off around January but the remarks at the time were that they ususally did. It is also about that time that the dreadful "on-the-run" story came, nearly ruining the show completely.
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Kenny
Sep 1 2007, 07:38 AM
JERSoapsFan
Aug 31 2007, 02:50 PM
Thanks for posting that cover.

I could NEVER have imagined it was that HUGE.

O-M-G.

I laugh about it, and even defend it, in some cases, or play Devil's advocate; but, if it's true, It's SAD. It's the end of an ERA, baby. It is BAD. :( :(

That cover is DAMNING.

NO WAY would even the soap press devote a whole FUCKING cover to a rumor if it didn't have something behind it. NO WAY.

Eh, I don't think the size of the cover means much. It was probably just a slow soap news week and they knew it would sell magazines, regardless of how true or false it is.

That's the way SOW goes anymore. I call it "The Missy Reeves Effect." From the day she originally left Days until the day she finally returned she would be on at least the cover of SOD or SOW in some capacity. Whether it was a full cover or just a tiny square in the corner, she was always there with some promising caption.

"Missy to Return?!" (open up the magazine, it's all just rumor)

"Missy RETURNS to DAYTIME!" (open up the magazine... title was misleading. She's just being interviewed on some daytime talk show)

"Missy Reeves... BACK in Salem!" (open up the magazine... come to find out, she only had a dream one night that she returned to Days and was "back in Salem." No ACTUAL return.)

They'll plaster anything on the cover, especially during a slow week, in order to sell magazines, IMO.

Dammit, your post had me nearly choke and a Starburst AND a Dorito! I love your memory and even if it isn't 100 percent accurate, I know what you mean about the soap mags. It's just hilarious to chat about it.
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Kenny
Sep 1 2007, 07:38 AM

"Missy Reeves... BACK in Salem!" (open up the magazine... come to find out, she only had a dream one night that she returned to Days and was "back in Salem." No ACTUAL return.)

I almost DIED again. Literally!!!

You're killing me.

SURELY you made that one up. If not, they suck beyond words!
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For the show's sake I hope they don't REALLY off John that way. It's stupid!

If someone gets hit by a car, the body HAS to be found, right? It's not like he got pushed off a cliff or thrown in the ocean. If you're hit on Main Street, you DIE on Main Street; your body STAYS on Main Street. Hell, how'd they even know he got hit by a car and was killed if they DIDN'T have a body in that case?

This WHOLE thing reeks of (if it weren't an actual death) DiMera involvement. And CRAPPY, CRAPPY, SHITTY writing. Because with no body, Ms. Never Say Die Marlena would NEVER believe John really was dead.

USE YOUR GODDAMN BRAINS, WRITERS!!! God, I hate Hogan now more than EVER if John goes this way. It should bloody and gory and rip your heart out so you know it's final, and you feel like crying. And for Marlena to buy that it actually happened. I mean, he better have a TORE UP body after that SSK stunt and all the other fake "deaths" we've seen on this show. Otherwise no one would believe it.

Oh, this is so frustrating!!
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Manny
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So let me get this straight...

Ed "the savior of DAYS #29394" Scott, the guy from Y&R that loves the vets, has fired probably the only writer that was on the show for more than 10 years...?

Hmmm... I think I'm gonna quit DAYS forever. Not because I can't live without Beth M., but just because I think they keep making wrong decisions and firing wrong people. And I can't stand that.

Beth M. should have been the co-head writer with Hogan, who clearly sucks! She shouldn't have been fired!

And as for Drake... I really don't care if they kill him off. But a car accident with no body?! Seriously? Are they that stupid? Why am I asking this question.. this is DAYS people we're talking about...

They should have done a huge death storyline! Tie it up with the Vendetta climax and KILL HIM! His body missing?! Chickens! Why? The show is getting canceled probably, so you're not gonna bring him back anyways! So KILL HIM! Do something risky and maybe it will pay off! ANOTHER "death" is like breathing in Salem, so why should anyone care?!

As for the search storyline... sure, there will be a search. In the next episode... then Marlena will go off screen and just do the search there... off screen... with Belle mentioning that to Shawn or Sami mentioning it to Lucas, while they having a snooze fest of their story in progress...

Well, good thing I didn't get my hopes up when they announced Ed Scott's arrival. Because the first two decisions so far (if they are true) SUCK!
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Manny, you said it. This should be HUGE if done right. Don't these assholes see the press the RUMOR is getting alone?

FUCKS.
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

JERSoapsFan
Sep 2 2007, 03:10 AM
Manny, you said it. This should be HUGE if done right. Don't these assholes see the press the RUMOR is getting alone?

FUCKS.

ICAM with everyone! If Drake is gone I want to see John's blood spilling out EVERYWHERE and Marlena rocking his lifeless corpse unable to believe that her husband is dead while a flood of tears fall down her face and her mascara gets all kinds of smeared.

This man survived Mardevil's possession and Stefano's guillotine and God knows what else I've blocked from my memory over the years so we NEED to see more than just him getting hit by a car.

And if they're killing off John and plan to get rid of Marlena too, then go out with a BANG and have Marlena commit suicide. Yeah it would be the show committing suicide but if they're getting rid of Dee Hall the show is getting cancelled anyway so why not go all out with something never done before?!?!

And for some reason reading your posts JSF I was thinking back to the SSK storyline and I don't know about anyone else but OMG I just *LOVED* Roman's death!!! With the blood coming out of the wedding cake and Kate's wedding dress covered in blood!!! It was so tragically magnificent. And at that point it wasn't even like I was emotionally invested in Roman nor was I terribly sad that Kaman didn't work out, because I had actually just tuned back in to Days to watch the show again full-time again because of the real world buzz about the show, but I still just found those scenes so gripping it was then that I became a full-time viewer again and even if the Melaswen nonsense and Alex North debacle caused me to tune out for a bit before something else got me to tune back in I can tell you I wouldn't be posting here RIGHT NOW if it wasn't for the SSK storyline because had that not happened I would have been lost to Days forever. So take a chance DOOL writers. GIVE US SOME BLOOD AND GUTS!
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

I've waited awhile to comment on this as it is such a whirlwind. I am not going to being Drake's recent comments or any of that shit into this as I think there is enough here to comment on as is.

I don't think Drake leaving at this juncture will hurt the show. Perhaps it will in a minor fashion but most J&M fans are Dee fans first and will stick around as long as she has story. That is the key IMO. If they are going to do this, they must do it right. The fallout has to be great and long-lasting. Dee needs to be frontburner before, during, and after this. This needs to be epic.

I am a firm believer in that you need to do what is best for the show in that you create the best drama and entertainment possible. Days has not taken a big risk since the SSK and even that they went back on. They need a risk. I think we all mentioned that last year when Hogan began. They need something that gets people talking, whether it's a mixed bag of reactions or not. If Hogan and crew see the chance to tell a fantastic story that could be very memorable, they need to go for it. This show has been hesitant for far too long. Killing John will create a feeling that no one is safe. It will restore the credibility of death and danger on the show. It will amp up the suspense and drama levels, something that is needed. They can't keepy shying away from stories like this because someone is a vet or has a huge fanbase. Primetime shows do it all the time and I think it's time other soaps do it too. I;m not advocating for soaps to kill vets left and right. It doesn't even have to be a vet. I would just like to see soaps avoid caving to fanbases or to the "They are a vet, you can't do that" shit that has become common place. Writers should not be boxed in. They need to just go ahead and tell a story and trust that the audience will be behind it. It won't always happen but drama should not be shied away from. This is a daytime drama. People die in real life and we should be able to see that happen to anyone on the soaps, regardless of who they are. It's realistic and compelling and it's something that has been missing from Days out of fear of backlash and fanbases. It's time Days proves that anything can happen, which was the feeling the show had in the 80's and 90's. If they show they can take risks, then I think you will attract some newer, general fans that will find interest in that fact, much like what happened during the SSK plot.

I may be down on Drake but this will hurt and it should. However, Days needs to go for what can help the show thrive and I think the death of a major character can get people to watch again. The main thing is Days needs to hold them and that means doing this right. I don't like the way this sounds. For one thing, Drake's contract is up in January so that is fishy them saying October. Also, no body being found makes me wonder if Drake isn't even out and someone just got a hold of the "mysterious story for John" that was hinted at in SOW. Maybe Drake will go off for a bit while they renegotiate his contract? I just thought that whole part was weird and actually made me doubt a little that he is leaving. I don't see Drake going recurring either.

Whatever the case, I have a feeling he is out, at least for some length of time. I want to think he is fired but I also wonder if they are measuring fan reaction. I just hope if he goes out it's not like what we are hearing. It has to be bigger then that. We'll see.

I remember last November when the rumor circulated that a Days icon was fired. I still think that was Drake and that he was meant to die when he was shot and they changed it. Maybe they were afraid to do it then on the heels of many other exits or maybe they decided to try writing him off for 5 months first to see what happened. I do think he was the icon and they re-considered for some reason and fired RJ for some stupid reason instead. From that point, though, I began to realize one of the big 4 had to go. Regardless of whether Hogan wrote for them or not, I just knew one would have to go for the show to help it's finances and, ultimately, to help stories. I just think they are having a hard time writing new and original stuff for the big 4. Yes, that is stupid but I can see why when they have been here as long as they have. Killing John can create story for Bo, Hope, Marlena, and many others and I can see the motivation in all that.

I think this is going to be an interesting Fall and I don't think we will see the true impact of this until if and when it actually happens and we see the fallout as well. The fact that we are getting info from all over about Drake tends to make me think he is going to be gone in some way, though.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Oh, and I just have to add that the Beth Milstein praise just irks me. I know her work from the 80's and 90's. She is ok but she isn't great. Yes, she knows the history and characters but she was brought on to "hold the fort" and Hogan opted to keep her on after he began. All she did was tie up JER's stories and set up Hogan's. She wrote no new stories and that is why I can't jump on her bandwagon completely. I would rather Sheri, Paula, or Peter were made co-HW since they have more experience and have shown their talents for writing their own stories in the recent times we are in.

Beth wrote on her own for 2 months so I think she is horribly overhyped. Days does need people who know the show on staff so her ouster does sting but they can also find better IMO. I think Hogan kept her on as a historian of sorts and now feels he and his team know enough to get by. Maybe it was a cost cutting measure as well.
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Y&RWorldTurner
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Sharongate, bitches!

Quote:
 
Oh, and I just have to add that the Beth Milstein praise just irks me.


Now you know how some of us feel about the Hogan praise some people bestow upon him.

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Yes, she knows the history and characters but she was brought on to "hold the fort" and Hogan opted to keep her on after he began.


Um, fact is, Hogan has virtually fired everyone on the Days writing staff who had history writing for the show and knew the characters in and out. It's not a good thing to fire another legacy writer, just to replace her with one of your friends.

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I would rather Sheri, Paula, or Peter were made co-HW since they have more experience and have shown their talents for writing their own stories in the recent times we are in.


I'd like them back too, but it's pretty obvious Hogan doesn't look for legacy writers, he looks for other "big name" writers in the industry or his personal friends. This, in the long-run, won't better the show.

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Beth wrote on her own for 2 months so I think she is horribly overhyped.


The same could be said about Hogan Savior Sheffer for almost all of his tenure thus far.



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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

Y&RWorldTurner
Sep 2 2007, 02:04 PM
Quote:
 
Oh, and I just have to add that the Beth Milstein praise just irks me.


Now you know how some of us feel about the Hogan praise some people bestow upon him.

Quote:
 
Yes, she knows the history and characters but she was brought on to "hold the fort" and Hogan opted to keep her on after he began.


Um, fact is, Hogan has virtually fired everyone on the Days writing staff who had history writing for the show and knew the characters in and out. It's not a good thing to fire another legacy writer, just to replace her with one of your friends.

Quote:
 
I would rather Sheri, Paula, or Peter were made co-HW since they have more experience and have shown their talents for writing their own stories in the recent times we are in.


I'd like them back too, but it's pretty obvious Hogan doesn't look for legacy writers, he looks for other "big name" writers in the industry or his personal friends. This, in the long-run, won't better the show.

Quote:
 
Beth wrote on her own for 2 months so I think she is horribly overhyped.


The same could be said about Hogan Savior Sheffer for almost all of his tenure thus far.

:lol:

Thanks for posting this. I thought about posting something similar but I'm glad you saved me the trouble.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Y&RWorldTurner
Sep 2 2007, 02:04 PM
Quote:
 
Oh, and I just have to add that the Beth Milstein praise just irks me.


Now you know how some of us feel about the Hogan praise some people bestow upon him.

Quote:
 
Yes, she knows the history and characters but she was brought on to "hold the fort" and Hogan opted to keep her on after he began.


Um, fact is, Hogan has virtually fired everyone on the Days writing staff who had history writing for the show and knew the characters in and out. It's not a good thing to fire another legacy writer, just to replace her with one of your friends.

Quote:
 
I would rather Sheri, Paula, or Peter were made co-HW since they have more experience and have shown their talents for writing their own stories in the recent times we are in.


I'd like them back too, but it's pretty obvious Hogan doesn't look for legacy writers, he looks for other "big name" writers in the industry or his personal friends. This, in the long-run, won't better the show.

Quote:
 
Beth wrote on her own for 2 months so I think she is horribly overhyped.


The same could be said about Hogan Savior Sheffer for almost all of his tenure thus far.

While it's true that Hogan's tenure has not been great, let's also not forget about the outside influences.

I would've loved to see how Beth dealt with that if she was in that position.
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

You know...

The more I think about this Drake getting fired rumor the more MAD I get at how horribly they botched the drama of John Black getting killed off if that was their intention.

If they knew all along they were going to kill off John they should have given him more to do in the Brady-DiMera feud to up the stakes so that this could be sort of his swan song and we could get just one last John-Stefano face off in this storyline so John Black could be going out with a BANG rather than just a whimper the way rumor has it he'll exit now. Such a waste of great DRAMA.

I know a lot of people talk about Drake's loyalty and longevity and hefty salary as reasons he should stay or go but for me it's about the STORY and at this point I am opposed to John Black leaving because the way they've set this all up and the rumors of how it will play out that have surfaced only engender a big fat "so what?" from me despite the fact that I do have a lingering sentimental attachment to the eyebrow and adored John throughout the 90s and up until the Alex North storyline. While I understand that may be their intention to try to cushion the blow for the rabid John and John and Marlena fans it PISSES ME OFF that the whole show and the entire storyline has to suffer because of this with John's death having no emotional impact.

Then again, this could just be another example of Hogan Sheffer not having a fucking clue or just not caring about how to write John Black and not even thinking him or his fans worthy of a good exit storyline for the character.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

I agree with that IMA.

That is why if they had this in mind last Fall, they should've just let him die when EJ shot him. There was so much more drama and buildup then. John had the death card and everything.

I just hope if Drake is gone, that he goes out in another way then what is being mentioned. That really is a shitty way of going out and, if they are going to do this, they need to make it HUGE for all involved but especially for Drake and the character of John.
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King
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No one will convince me ever that Drake was supposed to die during the SSK and they put the rumor out as a "Feeler" to see how fans would react.

It is not true. It makes zero sense.

- The whole storyline revolved around giving a big "F. YOU!" to the fans and not caring what they thought. So, DAYS wouldn't have cared if fans protested.

- The storyline was built and written for Deidre Hall. They wouldn't kill off her character's husband so early in the storyline.

So, if people are claiming this is three or four years in the making and that he was really going to go THEN.... :blah:
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px780
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Streetcorner Philosopher

Sheffer, Milstein, Scott, Brash, Cwikly, Reilly- whatever. They don't matter so much. We all know the problem is Corday. Corday's the coward that won't let anything happen that might be, y'know, permanent and have lasting impact.

I don't think John's death should be over-the-top bloody. In fact, the more violent it is the more convinced I'll be that it's not real.

I mean, in a way I know it'll never be real, especially now. They've done the Dimera feud origins story, and the only thing they could have left in their arsenal would be the return of a major character. But they've used a bunch of those too, so we're left with, what Jack/Jenn again some more? Unless they kill someone now.

Which is a confusing way of saying: maybe they're only killing John to have his return in their back pocket.

So: a single gunshot would be a nice way to go (I'm taking that from the death of Chad on Passions). They did that to John already, but they aren't above recycling.

Also, I think that to help convince that he's dead one character- either Marlena or Belle- should refuse to believe he's gone. That might help.

What would people like to see happen? If they're floating the article as a test, and we figure they're gonna go there we might as well guide them towards something interesting.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

King
Sep 2 2007, 02:41 PM
No one will convince me ever that Drake was supposed to die during the SSK and they put the rumor out as a "Feeler" to see how fans would react.

It is not true. It makes zero sense.

- The whole storyline revolved around giving a big "F. YOU!" to the fans and not caring what they thought. So, DAYS wouldn't have cared if fans protested.

- The storyline was built and written for Deidre Hall. They wouldn't kill off her character's husband so early in the storyline.

Oh, I agree with that. I don't think that was a feeler. I think J&M's hiatus last summer and Drake's absence earlier this year could be though.
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King
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That, I agree with.

But I don't think the rumor of 2004 was ever true or near true. We all know John had to be around in April and May for when all the reveals went down.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Yep. That whole Labor Day fiasco was nothing more then a joke.

I remember there was a KA one too where Hope was going to be offed by Marlena and then John would shoot "Marlena" and we would later learn he killed Hattie and the real Marlena was locked up somewhere.

There were so many rumors at that time, just like now. That is why I can't wait until we get official word one way or the other because it drives me nuts :lol:
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