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DAYS: I'm NOT throwing in the towel on this show!; Cannot give it up!
Topic Started: Sep 23 2007, 09:48 PM (2,420 Views)
Y&RWorldTurner
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Sharongate, bitches!

Quality withstanding, Hogan's tenure on Days will forever live in infamy. It was through him Days lost 800,000 viewers and sunk to last place in the ratings, a position the show hasn't been in since it debuted.

When all is said and done, history will see Hogan as the guy who sent Days on the downward that it hasn't recovered from, whether its a fair assertion or not.
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Rick
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Dreamlander

^Exactly
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Mason
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Well, "history" may see him that way, but the people I feel are responsible are Ken Corday, Tom Langan, Dena Higley and James E. Reilly.
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King
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I was going to start a new topic on this, but it's kind of on topic here:

Has anyone else noticed that Ken Corday really hasn't said a peep in the mags for almost 3 or 4 months now????????????

What's that about?

Or did I miss an article or two and he has?
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Mason
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I didn't notice that King, but thank God for small favors!
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

King
Sep 25 2007, 01:01 PM
I was going to start a new topic on this, but it's kind of on topic here:

Has anyone else noticed that Ken Corday really hasn't said a peep in the mags for almost 3 or 4 months now????????????

What's that about?

Or did I miss an article or two and he has?

As far as I know he hasn't said a word since he laid out some of the summer previews back in April or May.

It's been all Hogan and Wyman (before he got fired) and now Scott.
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King
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I think that's very telling of the new direction of DAYS.

Thank God for Ed Scott/Sony.

*knocks on wood.*
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Steve Frame
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Mason AKA Hogan
Sep 24 2007, 10:33 PM
Well, "history" may see him that way, but the people I feel are responsible are Ken Corday, Tom Langan, Dena Higley and James E. Reilly.

I see it completely as a combination of every damn one of them including Hogan Sheffer.

I blame Ken Corday but there is no way that this whole damn year has been totally Corday. Hogan has to share the blame as well. Corday may have told him who to write for earlier this year but I am sure he didn't tell him to make it so damn boring that people couldn't stand what was being written. And Hogan has said himself at the start of this vendetta story that he was writing now for who he wants to write for. He said this is the story he wants to write. And Hogan is the one who keeps making the damn statements that is getting him in trouble such as the constant shout outs to the Lumi fans, the acknowledgements of the EJami fans, constant pitting them against one another, and the stupid stuff he said about Days fans wanting good looks over talent. That was all him - not Corday.

Hogan shares equally in this to me and unless he suddenly comes forward and grows some balls and denounces some of it, I won't be changing my mind.
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Mason
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Well, I believe, if not for the people I listed, DAYS would never have started out as low in the ratings as it did when Hogan arrived in the first place. I support Hogan, but I will certainly admit he has written things this year that I have not liked at all (Crazy Steve, Tinda Lau, Touch the Sky, Pocket, etc.). But my point is that Hogan did not start the alienation of DAYS fans. That started long ago with Langan's damn teen invasion in the early 2000's, and (except with a brief rejeuvenation under B&C) just got worse under Higley and Reilly.
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Mitchapalooza
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Killing myself slowly

Mason AKA Hogan
Sep 25 2007, 02:31 PM
Well, I believe, if not for the people I listed, DAYS would never have started out as low in the ratings as it did when Hogan arrived in the first place. I support Hogan, but I will certainly admit he has written things this year that I have not liked at all (Crazy Steve, Tinda Lau, Touch the Sky, Pocket, etc.). But my point is that Hogan did not start the alienation of DAYS fans. That started long ago with Langan's damn teen invasion in the early 2000's, and (except with a brief rejeuvenation under B&C) just got worse under Higley and Reilly.

I agree with this assessment.

I definetly feel that DAYS ratings decline is from a number of headwriting tenures.

The Salem Stalker (pre-Melaswen) is the only time DAYS has risen to pretty high numbers and I think that had more to do with the buzz around the show and the fact that DAYS once again was once again producing a storyline that was being talked about at water coolers at work, in high school lunchrooms and on college campuses. Not to mention it was in the mainstream press/ET/AccessHollywood ect. The storyline was riveting and no doubt many lapsed and new viewers turned in to see what the fuss was about and got caught up in it all.

Melaswen destroyed anything that Salem Stalker established (ratings wise) and the show has been tanking every since (ratings wise)...outside of Zach's death (which brought in decent ratings).
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ArizonaDaze
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PhoenixRising05
Sep 23 2007, 10:37 PM

∫I sometimes wonder if we all watch more to analyze and criticize rather then enjoy. It just seems like years ago people were patient and were there no matter what for the most part. Sure, there were likes and dislikes but things were not picked apart nearly as much. Even a few years ago, it seemed like even when a show sucked people still found a reason to stick by it and still found something to enjoy. I can be accused of this too. I used to just sit back and watch a show and now I end up questioning why a writer does something or writes a scene a certain way and why an actor plays a scene a certain way and things like that. I never did that before. Those little things meant nothing to me. I often wonder if that is what's changed. We all may pay more attention to those things then we used to.


I guess, for me, I have accepted the fact that so much has been done that no story is going to be surprising anymore. The one thing I am grateful for is I can still find something I enjoy in all 9 soaps, especially Days, and that nothing takes away from that enjoyment. Maybe it's just me being blind to things but it's the way I am.

Tim, I so agree with you on this. Before I came to any message board, I ust watched. No picking apart story lines, acting ability (or lack there of), and no reading between the lines trying to figure out what the writer "really" intended. I just enjoyed (most of the time.) No one likes everything 100% of the time and I am no exception.Yes, Days could be so much better, and I hope it will be soon. I don't want it to all be over in 2009 - it has been so much a part of my life for over 40 years that I don't know what I would do after work every day. So I just watch and get excited over the things like and try to survive the things I don't.
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ArizonaDaze
Sep 25 2007, 03:35 PM
PhoenixRising05
Sep 23 2007, 10:37 PM

∫I sometimes wonder if we all watch more to analyze and criticize rather then enjoy.  It just seems like years ago people were patient and were there no matter what for the most part.  Sure, there were likes and dislikes but things were not picked apart nearly as much.  Even a few years ago, it seemed like even when a show sucked people still found a reason to stick by it and still found something to enjoy.  I can be accused of this too.  I used to just sit back and watch a show and now I end up questioning why a writer does something or writes a scene a certain way and why an actor plays a scene a certain way and things like that.  I never did that before.  Those little things meant nothing to me.  I often wonder if that is what's changed.  We all may pay more attention to those things then we used to.


I guess, for me, I have accepted the fact that so much has been done that no story is going to be surprising anymore.  The one thing I am grateful for is I can still find something I enjoy in all 9 soaps, especially Days, and that nothing takes away from that enjoyment.  Maybe it's just me being blind to things but it's the way I am.

Tim, I so agree with you on this. Before I came to any message board, I ust watched. No picking apart story lines, acting ability (or lack there of), and no reading between the lines trying to figure out what the writer "really" intended. I just enjoyed (most of the time.) No one likes everything 100% of the time and I am no exception.Yes, Days could be so much better, and I hope it will be soon. I don't want it to all be over in 2009 - it has been so much a part of my life for over 40 years that I don't know what I would do after work every day. So I just watch and get excited over the things like and try to survive the things I don't.

This is exactly how I feel. I've watched through a lot of sucky storylines. Before participating in the messageboards, I never got wound up about the show. If I didn't like what I was watching, I took a little break, but then would come back to Days to see what was going on. And generally speaking, when I returned, I stuck with the show for a few years. I didn't overanalyze -- I'd just watch with my mom and sister and we'd do our own good natured "dishing" on the show--either saying how great an episode was or laughing at how bad it was. But it always remained fun, no matter what crazy or controversial story appeared onscreen. Back then ratings had no effect on my mood or affection for the show.

But then I discovered the boards. And while on the whole I love visiting them and posting, the negativity spread when a show is having a rough time -- it's infectious and hard to ignore. It's hard to keep a balanced perspective when I read people bashing or blaming characters that I adore and watch for. Or a storyline I personally find good is held up to ridicule. I'm not saying that people don't have a right to their opinion and a right to express it -- they absolutely do. And that's the risk I took when I got into the world of the messageboards -- these things are going to bashed because everyone has his/her own point of view. But opinions, man they sure can get nasty sometimes. Oh well . . . c'est la vie.

Every once in awhile though, I am able to watch the show in the same way I used to. And it's usually when I'm watching with an objective viewer who has never visited a soap website or read a soap mag. They remind me of what this show is -- entertainment not to be taken so seriously.

Oh . . . I just wanted to add--just for the sake of "full disclosure"--I've done my fair share of ranting about Days on the boards. I just can't help it sometimes! :P
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Steve Frame
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I agree that the messageboards give us more of a chance to be negative and analyze things. It gives us more of a chance to ban together too which helped the onset of stronger fanbases who can control the show more.

But even before messageboards fans did complain and made their voices heard. Just think about all the way back to the late 50's when CBS was bombarded with so much hate mail for Irna Phillips for killing off Susan Roberts that Irna herself had to go on the air to address the public. The early 60's again 2 more times fans revolted when Jeff Baker was killed off ATWT and Sara Karr was killed off on EON. Then the next example that sticks out in my mind is when Erica Kane was sick after she had her abortion in 1973 and even doctors and nurses flooded ABC with critique of the story and offered Agnes Nixon ways to treat Erica and cure her. Then another big example was in 1983 when fans thought Marlena had been killed and stormed NBC studios demanding she be brought back.

Fans also make themselves heard in the same way as they do today - the ratings. They didn't have messageboards to be critical but if they didn't like things - they didn't go on a messageboard and talk about it - they just tuned out. Today they tune out and complain about it on the messageboards too.

Back in late 1979 and early 1980 when Days fired so many beloved favorites and filled the show with so many newbies it was so unfamiliar to audiences - fans tuned out in droves. Days got very close to cancellation. AW was doing the same thing around this time too. They were giving so many new characters to fill out the 90 minutes and getting ready to debut Texas.

Fans tuned out big time and both shows reached record lows for the time.

So fans did get upset and voiced their opinions about things the best way they knew how. Also Days and AW which had done well in the Daytime TV readers polls for years dropped down big time in the late 70's and early 80's - giving them solely over to the ABC shows. When the shows got better a few years later, Days and then AW returned to the polls and dominated even though ratings were still not great.
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King
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DAYS is a hard show to write for, I think. It still has the same characters and couples it had twenty and thirty years ago. More than other shows, I think. They have a good 10 - 15 vets people obsess over. Pretty everything has been done with them. Writers can't have Marlena having an affair or John doubting his marriage because it's out of character and blah blah. And it's not even really a fanbase issue. It's just a DAYS fan issue in general. And they can't do conventional, social issues because some say "that's not DAYS" and DAYS can't do far out stuff because it already has done far out stuff and it has to push the envelope even further to top itself, and that's too far. DAYS has a lot of fans, and no matter which way the writers go, people are miserable and hate it. People love the Dimera's. People hate the Dimera's. People love the boring, family, Alice/Horton scenes. Some people hate the boring, family Alice/Horton scenes. Some people love Hope and Marlena and these people getting pregnant and having babies well past their 40's, some people hate it and think it's unrealistic. I know you can't please everyone, but I think DAYS has a bigger problem than most shows with it.

So the writers bring on new people who it can experiment and have cheat and steal and scheme etc etc and people (including me) hate newbies. So they're screwed.

Fans love Alice, Maggie, Mickey, Bo, Hope, John, Marlena, Abe, Lexie, Steve, Kayla, Sami, and Lucas. Anything done to them is either not as good as it was or doesn't suit them or fit them.

DAYS is a really hard show to write for. IMO. It's ALWAYS damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.

I loved SSK and Zach's death. But SO MANY people hated them both and thought it was DAYS at its worse. I love the 90's and so many people hated the unbelievability, long storylines, couples being torn apart, and dark gothic style. It's just so hit or miss with DAYS.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

King
Sep 25 2007, 04:45 PM
DAYS is a hard show to write for, I think. It still has the same characters and couples it had twenty and thirty years ago. More than other shows, I think. They have a good 10 - 15 vets people obsess over. Pretty everything has been done with them. Writers can't have Marlena having an affair or John doubting his marriage because it's out of character and blah blah. And it's not even really a fanbase issue. It's just a DAYS fan issue in general. And they can't do conventional, social issues because some say "that's not DAYS" and DAYS can't do far out stuff because it already has done far out stuff and it has to push the envelope even further to top itself, and that's too far. DAYS has a lot of fans, and no matter which way the writers go, people are miserable and hate it. People love the Dimera's. People hate the Dimera's. People love the boring, family, Alice/Horton scenes. Some people hate the boring, family Alice/Horton scenes. Some people love Hope and Marlena and these people getting pregnant and having babies well past their 40's, some people hate it and think it's unrealistic. I know you can't please everyone, but I think DAYS has a bigger problem than most shows with it.

Fans love Alice, Maggie, Mickey, Bo, Hope, John, Marlena, Abe, Lexie, Steve, Kayla, Sami, and Lucas. Anything done to them is either not as good as it was or doesn't suit them or fit them.

DAYS is a really hard show to write for. IMO. It's ALWAYS damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.

I loved SSK and Zach's death. But SO MANY people hated them both and thought it was DAYS at its worse. I love the 90's and so many people hated the unbelievability, long storylines, couples being torn apart, and dark gothic style. It's just so hit or miss with DAYS.

I just had to quote this because I couldn't agree more.

I actually feel bad for anyone who gets the HW's job because I know if I had to deal with half the shit that was thrown at me from all areas like the person in that job gets, I would either quit or put myself out of my own misery.
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ArizonaDaze
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Wow, we have as many opinions as posters! There are points in all comments that I can agree (or disagree) with. There isn't any thing else I can ad except that I will keep watching regardless and hope for the best. Old habits die hard for this old broad.
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Ridge
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Quote:
 
I want nothing more than success for this show and as easy as it would be to just go with the consensus and kick the show while it is down (since this seems to be the "cool" thing to do or so it seems), when it appears to be trying to rebuild itself, I just cannot do it.


I see what you're saying Mitch. I don't necessarily agree with that statement though. DAYS has always been an isolated appeasement kind of soap-- when DAYS ratings were soaring high there was still a group of fans that did not like it, particularly during both JER runs. And at that time fans were defending it-- while others were kicking it. I loved a lot of JER's first run while many fans were mocking it (with reason? I suppose...) but I never gave up b/c it was enjoying. DAYS is far from enjoyable now a days and many things that I loved about it pre- JER, in the 80's and from 1990-1993 are simply NOT there anymore-- hence the throwing in of the towel.
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Ridge
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Mitchapalooza
Sep 23 2007, 10:07 PM
Y&RWorldTurner
Sep 23 2007, 10:00 PM
I agree Tyler, it's hard to sit down and watch a show you love than you aren't able to recognize anymore. It's not just Days, but all the soaps for that matter. I've traditionally watched all the soaps over the years and I can honestly say that for the first time since I began watching them, I couldn't care less about any of them. The way I see it, if the overall quality of a soap sucks and almost nothing holds my interest, then why am I  wasting my time watching it? You might say loyalty, but why should I provide a show with loyalty when that same show has done everything to prove that it's not loyal to me and its very own core audience/fans in general? Viewers are wiser than anyone thinks and the soap ratings are starting to reflect that.

Perhaps it is my loyalty to the actors/characters that I have grown up loving. Maybe it is NOT so much the show as an entity, but the characters and giving up on DAYS for me would be like giving up on THEM.

I also feel like giving my undivided viewership to another soap is like further sending DAYS down the tubes.

I think it has affected my other viewing aswell, I have given up on every single other show, BUT DAYS!

Its weird, I cannot explain it.

Again... C what u r saying... but MANY of those characters are not even on now! If they are on, they are hardly featured in any capacity as to connect with them as a viewer. 2nd rate characters are utilized in that capacity so that you are not supposed to have an emotional investment in them, or what happens to them. Hogan has essentialy done that to many of the characters that brought this show to its glory.



Quote:
 
I loved SSK and Zach's death. But SO MANY people hated them both and thought it was DAYS at its worse. I love the 90's and so many people hated the unbelievability, long storylines, couples being torn apart, and dark gothic style. It's just so hit or miss with DAYS.

I definitely agree with you Mike. The only difference now is that people were watching back then. When we loved those times, others did as well. People can argue whatever but the show felt very little harm in featuring those stories-- and people were actually watching. People are just not watching now meaning people like myself are not happy and are not watching which means DAYS has pissed off fans (like it did before), and more worstly, lost them completely (not like before).
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PoisonIvy
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Wow such an interesting thread - I agree with many about the problems this show has.

For myself, I think the balance is really the #1 problem. As has been stated, many of us have sat through some really crappy storylines, but there were always mutiple storylines going on at once, so if one didn't appeal to us, we had something to draw us in....and possibly bitch about but we'd watch.

Now if you don't like the two storylines that Hogan focuses on, then what's the point? His poor management of story is simply stunning considering he was a HW before. Proof that it's him, is that I have seen some good individual episodes. It's like the The bus is charging ahead, but the driver's drunk and high.
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Steve Frame
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PoisonIvy
Sep 26 2007, 10:53 AM
Now if you don't like the two storylines that Hogan focuses on, then what's the point? His poor management of story is simply stunning considering he was a HW before. Proof that it's him, is that I have seen some good individual episodes. It's like the The bus is charging ahead, but the driver's drunk and high.

:hail: :lol: :hail:

Great post. I love the analogy. Cracked me up.
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