|Hello, soap fans -- and welcome to Daytime Royalty!|
For those unfamiliar, we are an uncensored community for fans and lovers of the daytime genre. We have a no-holds-barred atmosphere in regards to the shows, writers, actors etc. but we do not allow member bashing in any form.
You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
If you're already a member, please log in to your account to access all of our features.
|My October Challenge; - The Results For Me Are In|
|Tweet Topic Started: Sep 29 2007, 02:24 PM (1,138 Views)|
|☼ Jinx ☼||Sep 30 2007, 09:46 PM Post #21|
Live. Love. Laugh. ♥
Theres a huge lack of balance. Nowdays, its all Sami and her involvement in the feud. I just wanna see her have her babies and sail off into the sunset with Lucas. I say that because as long as her and Lucas stay together, we won't have to watch her cry over the situation, and await to be with Lucas again, not to mention how he's going to be acting. I'm not holding my breath for that, though.
I am very interested in the Nick stuff though with the kids. I've already predicted that Stefano is their father, but I'm anxious to see what measures Nick takes with those kids.
Aside from that, I don't care much for anyone else right now. I'm awaiting the arrival of some other people (spoiler thread ;)) to see how that goes.
|Steve Frame||Sep 30 2007, 10:46 PM Post #22|
I am watching this week as part of my challenge. I have more remarks over in the October Challenge thread but just had to say this.
Stefano DiMera is such a pompous ass. He blames Shawn when it was his father who was still married. Sure Shawn told the truth - something that is so foreign to the damn DiMera's.
|IMissAremid||Sep 30 2007, 10:50 PM Post #23|
After all... tomorrow is another day!
Well thanks for giving it another chance at least.
|Steve Frame||Sep 30 2007, 11:01 PM Post #24|
I'm not giving up yet Mary.
I am watching Thursday's show now. And it is technically great. Very well acted. Just great that way. Ed Scott has done wonders with the show and the cast.
I just hate the vendetta story. I so wish I was watching this with better stories.
If the stories and the balance change I believe I could come back and love it 100% with the changes. Hell I could without the changes. I have loved Days for the last 37 years and it has not always been technically that great.
I just can't get over how much I have no feelings for Sami anymore. And that is sad. If anything this challenge has reminded me of that. Her dilemna is totally lost on me. Thank you so fucking much Hogan.
|Scott||Sep 30 2007, 11:41 PM Post #25|
||I applaud you for giving all of the soaps a chance Steve!!! I wish Days could fix itself, because I really do like the show, but its become near unbearable in my eyes. I love Sami, but there is such a thing as too much of a character|
|Steve Frame||Oct 1 2007, 12:38 AM Post #26|
My final thoughts on the first week of challenge:
Week 1: Days of Our Lives
Wonderful acting. Performance of the week goes to Stephen Nichols. The man was brilliant on Friday's show. Allison Sweeney was great too. James Scott seemed lost in his scenes to me esp. compared to some of the others. Bryan Dattilo was better this week than he has been in a long time. Shelley Henning is a wonderful young actress. Probably the best the show has. She is far better than Melvin who I have grown to love as an actress. Trevor Donovan has improved immensely.
Wonderful direction. Ed Scott has done wonders for the show in this respect. The shows are so beautiful now. Technically superb. As far as technical stuff they rank up there with the best of the soaps in that respect which I see as GH, OLTL, & Y&R with Days in there too as far as technical aspects right now. ATWT would be up there if it weren't for that shaky camera work lately.
The show was brilliant in every aspect these ways. There is a not a bad or weak actor among the ones I saw this week. Even the boy who played Shawn was really good this week. The sorority girls were okay but they were really nothing to brag about, but I can't fully judge their acting on what they were given.
No 1 bad point for me is still the balance. It was so sad to see so much of Sami and EJ - esp. Sami. And the balance is not only bad in the amount of air time, but here is a story that is supposed to be an umbrella story and it boils down to have no lasting affects on anyone but Sami and EJ. That is sad that you have people who have been involved in this feud for 25 years now. I have been watching the Brady's and DiMeras since 1982 together. And 25 years of watchign them nearly kill one another, change one anothers lives, and it comes down to Sami and EJ being what it was all about. And the principal players of the feud either sat there this week and the rest of the summer (I am assuming they did the 3 weeks I have not watched too) and read letters. Or like Bo did this week run around but that could have been done by anyone. His running around had no affect on him only Sami so his running meant nothing for his character.
No. 2 bad point is still the writing. And I am not talking about the dialogue writing. DAys is superb in that. It is the headwriter who dreamed up this story. Even the breakdown of it is okay in the way it is delivered but the story itself that was dreamed up by Hogan Sheffer just sucks big time. I can't comment too much on the other stories as they are just getting started this week or weren't covered enough for me to get a feel of them since I haven't watched the 3 weeks before this.
The Vendetta story is probably my biggest disappointing in soaps ever. It is sad that 25 years of fighting and feuding on a soap comes down to a lying sack of married shit who falls in love with a young naive girl who kills herself because of his lie. I will forever go on believing in my mind that it all started 25 years ago with Roman and Stefano. It is a much more believeable story than what Sheffer dreamed up.
I saw the end of it and I still don't buy Santo and Colleen as the great lovers. He was a lying sack of shit who was married and she was the sweet young girl. Am I supposed to be mad at Shawn because he told the truth. Well I'm not. If I am supposed to hate the DiMera's more then Sheffer succeeded. I mean you have a horny old man who wanted a virgin. That is all it boiled down to. And Stefano is the one who spilled the secret to Shawn but yet the pompous ass blames Shawn for all the years of hatred. I don't get the hatred by some who refer to Shawn as Old Man Brady and do blame him while still giving Stefano the respect. I like Shawn a whole lot more after viewing this week than I do Stefano. And I respect Shawn Brady a lot more too.
As I have said many times in this thread also, I guess all of this would mean more to me if I felt invested in Lumi or EJami anymore but I don't. And Sheffer is to blame for that. He has singlehandedly made me hate both couples. He did just as much character destruction on these 3 characters as JER did to any characters in his whole history at Days. He has totally ruined 3 wonderful characters for the sake of this story.
It is just sad to me that what should have been a beautiful story boils down to a EJami/Lumi story - just another triangle. It is the same thing that JER did over and over. He turned ever damn story into a triangle, and now Sheffer tuns the whole vendetta story into a triangle. And very poorly at that. It is all just a big disappointment to me. And all the great acting, great lighting, great direction was all just wasted on me because of the writing.
Looking at the promise of other stories to draw me back in as a full time viewer. There is no hope of it with the Sorority story. I could barely get through those scenes on Friday. They were the only real things in 5 episodes that I so wanted to fast forward through but I was watching it live on SoapNet so that I couldn't. But oh how I wished. It was so borinnnnnnnng.
The Nick stuff with the man looking for the kids has promise. I will be checking in on it. The Stephanie/Jeremy/Max stuff was well acted, but not interesting to me because I can't stand Max and Stephanie in it at all. I don't like the characters of Stephanie and Jeremy either. They both need big overhauls. I love the actors but not the characters.
The Pocket story that I keep hearing great things about in the last 4 weeks wasn't featured any or Belle/Shawn/Philip so I can't judge them on this week.
The STeve seeking revenge on Stefano doesn't interest me at all. I have been so over that part of the story for a long time. And of course the next big part of the story - EJ/Sami/Lucas makes me want to throw up so I have no desire to watch it at all. Sami living with her rapist is something I definitely have no desire to watch.
AS I said earlier, the only thing that would have assured me coming back 100% was the deaths of Lucas, Sami and EJ. I would be back in a heartbeat. But as long as they are around, I know that the balance will never be fully restored. And Hogan's little attempt at trying to smooth over why the Marlena history wasn't used was wasted on me. I didn't buy it at all. Hearing Stefano talk about it made me realize even more how wasted Marlena was in this story when she should have been central. He would have been better off leaving it alone from my point of view.
I have decided because of the challenge not to take Days off my taping schedule. The changes Scott has made are worth checking in on - in hopes that he shapes Hogan up. The show is a technical gem right now and has so much going for it. The scripts are wonderful right now. It's biggest weakness is it's head writer. He is God awful. If Scott can straighten Hogan up, get rid of him or bring in a co-head writer to share full position with him, then teh show might survive. If he doesn't even he keeps Corday at bay, I don't hold out much hope for the show with Hogan in full control of the writing.
So I have already put Days back on the taping schedule for tomorrow. I will be glad to have it and I will check in on it. And I am sincerely hoping the show does improve it's writing. The show has got to make the show about more people again. And people that the fans want to see.
One other point I thought of later:
One big thing I keep thinking about with Steve swearing revenge on Stefano and looking at some of the upcoming spoilers is that the way I am reading Hogan's intent for this story and all the talk about Sami marrying EJ is to end that.
What is the full purpose of Hogan's story if all that just continues. If it continues then the true meaning of the story was to only end up with EJ and Sami married. And I can think of a hell of a lot better ways to have accomplished that then ruining the Vendetta story for it. If this story doesn't change things or have some other purpose then the whole story was not just a disappointment but a total failure too.
|Steve Frame||Oct 1 2007, 08:13 PM Post #27|
I know now that the Days part of my challenge is over, this won't get as much response, but I am going to continue it. :lol:
I started week 2 of my challenge tonight with All My Children. It is the other show that I have been totally disheartened with and disgusted by for awhile now.
The show was okay. Just like Days still so much great acting. And I really love the looks and the acting of the newcomer that is playing Wes.
My biggest problem is that just like Days as made the show so much about EJ/Sami/Lucas, AMC has made the show way too much about Zach and Kendall for so long and now throw in Greenlee and it is just not interesting to me at all.
And I know that Greenlee did something bad to Spike, but the writers today once again managed to make me feel for Greenlee and hate Zach and Kendall. Kendall is so self-righteous just like her damn mother in that they see all the bad stuff others do but then they turn around and act just as bad or even worse than the person they are judging. The only difference is I like Erica but can't stand Kendall. Kendall is one of the worse characters and since has been put with Zach she is just sickening to me. I can handle them apart but hate them as a couple.
The only thing that made the show watchable was the couple moments between Greenlee and Aidan & Ryan and Annie. I love both of those pairings even though I cannot stand this Greenlee at all.
So far I am not chaning my opinion much of AMC, but I can see some improvements but still not much. There is still way too much of McTavish's influence on this show.
|Mason||Oct 1 2007, 08:17 PM Post #28|
||Just out of curiosity, Steve, if you had to, which would you say is better right now, DAYS or AMC?|
|Steve Frame||Oct 1 2007, 08:24 PM Post #29|
Based on 5 episodes of Days from last week and just 1 of AMC, they are equal. Days has pluses that AMC doesn't have and vice versa. They equal out right now.
Both of them have technical elements covered. But they are both suffering from the same problems - balance and the head writing. Both shows have excellent dialogue but the stories from the headwriters and who they are written for just suck.
|IMissAremid||Oct 2 2007, 02:07 AM Post #30|
After all... tomorrow is another day!
OK, since there is no OLTL weekly discussion thread that I can see I guess I will put this here.
So I decided to accept Steve's challenge this month and thanks to Jonatha's column I decided to make my first stop in this challenge in Llanview.
Now keep in mind I have never watched an entire episode of OLTL IN MY LIFE before this Monday's episode and before it started started the only characters on this show I recognized on sight (from reading soap mags and seeing other promos) were Viki, Bo, Marcie and whatshisface McBain, Todd, Blair and Starr so if this all sounds odd to OLTL regular viewers, just know this is where I'm coming from. :lol:
I love love love marriage of convenience stories and my gut reaction is really liking Todd and Blair and this whole story, even though I know Todd is supposed to be a bit of a bastard (or A LOT of a bastard). I can't help loving the self-entitled bad boys I guess. And it doesn't hurt that I think he's kinda hot. I also like Blair a lot so far.
I like that we also get to see the POV of the McBains before the hearing and I love Marcie McBain's mouth even though I am rooting for Todd. I could see Marcie being someone I love to hate in the future but right now I just like her.
I like that this main story of the custody battle also has implications for the younger set and I liked Cole pointing out the selfishness of Starr's parents for doing this. If I was a jr. high or high school kid just tuning in to watch soaps I have no doubt it would be One Life before it was DOOL (as I know a big part of me getting hooked on DOOL as a pre-teen/teen was the stuff with Sami/Lucas/Carrie/Austin) even though I was younger than them when that stuff was airing. It's funny. Even though DOOL's younger set is college-age while these teens are still teens so I should be able to relate to DOOL's younger set better having just been a little bit removed from college, I would much rather watch OLTL's younger cast and stories because they don't seem as shallow and superficial as characters or in their problems just at first glance.
I have no idea what the hell happened at the police station today and I'm not getting what is going on with the woman who is all catatonic (I think Lindsay?) and I really tried hard to understand, I swear. Thankfully there was enough custody battle stuff though to keep me from getting that bored during the parts I couldn't really follow.
For the most part I think the lighting and camera work is boring and I am not crazy about the sets at the homes and the clothes people are wearing. Blair's kitchen just seems really tacky, especially if she is supposed to be rich (is she?) and the high school is so dingy. Is Llanview a really poor town because that is the impression I get from the looks of their public school? The police station scenes all I could think was BLUE and I was distracted by the radioactive-looking glowing white papers on the desk at one point. That said, the courtroom was pretty cool and I liked the McBains apartment. If this sounds nitpicky, I guess I am starting to get spoiled with the Ed Scott-ification of DOOL because I don't think if I were tuning into OLTL two months ago I would notice any of this stuff at all.
Overall, my first impression is I think OLTL is a pretty good soap right now, more in touch with what soaps are supposed to be about when it comes to relationships and family issues than DOOL (which as much as it hurts me to say is a cartoon compared to OLTL) and GH (which wants to be The Sopranos) and AMC (which I don't even no how to describe right now, but I don't think it's good when I tune in).
I look forward to tuning in tomorrow to seeing what's next. :)
|Steve Frame||Oct 2 2007, 09:56 AM Post #31|
Very good observations Mary. I agree with that last estimate. OLTL had really been hurting big time for a long time under Higley but it is getting back in touch with what it should be.
As you can see above my challenge this week is AMC. I am having trouble with it. LOL
I will create OLTL and AMC weekly threads later and both of us can cut and paste our thoughts over there.
I am still planning to post here this week too. Just copy my thoughts to the weekly discussion thread. Hopefully you will too. Love to see all the thoughts on the challenge together.
|IMissAremid||Oct 2 2007, 10:55 PM Post #32|
After all... tomorrow is another day!
OK I watched OLTL and for some reason didn't like today's show as much as yesterday's. It was just kind of blah for me.
I'm still having problems following a lot of the stuff going on that isn't the courtroom, which makes this experiment kind of difficult, but I still think the courtroom stuff is pretty good.
|Steve Frame||Oct 3 2007, 01:00 AM Post #33|
My 2nd day of AMC part of Oct. Challenge was pretty good. Lots less doom and gloom today. And I could actually tolerate Kendall. no stories are pulling me in yet, but they aren't fully turning me off either. The Adam and Krystle scenes were way too brief but they were good. Always love seeing Michael Knight and he was wonderful today.
I meant to say this yesterday but the previews just reminded me. I do not like Jacob Young's new look at all. Man that hair is God awful.
|Steve Frame||Oct 4 2007, 01:08 AM Post #34|
3rd Day of the AMC challenge
Good show today. Still nothing spectacular. David Canary is just an absolute gem though. Loved the song montage.
I am really hating this Kendall getting revenge story. It is just making me hate Kendall so much. Not happy with it at all.
The thing that bugs me so much with this challenge is that so far I am watching 2 shows that I once loved so much. Last week Days and now this week AMC. I love some of the changes made, but sadly both Days and AMC don't feel like Days or AMC any more. And I am not talking about comparing the old and the new and one not living up to the other. I am just talking about a feel. Sure some of the old characters are there, but it could easily be new shows I am watching. The shows are on a different focus and a different level that they are like completely new shows to a certain degree.
|IMissAremid||Oct 4 2007, 02:06 AM Post #35|
After all... tomorrow is another day!
OK... still continuing my OLTL foray.
Still enjoying the courtroom stuff the most. Definitely love to hate Marcie. She just seems too self-righteous for my liking.
I also really liked the teen stuff today, I'm genuinely curious about what the deal is with this girl's parents, why Dorian is so mad for Rex investigating them and the scene where the girl and her boyfriend shared a kiss was really sweet and perfect and age-appropriate for that moment.
As I said after Monday's episode, OLTL is proving to me this week that this soap seems to get what daytime is about better than most -- families, lovers, friends and enemies.
That still doesn't mean I've grown to like Dorian's house AT ALL because I still hate it. As I also found out I hate Capricorn today. And I want to like it because I'm a total astrology geek and I love the idea of a bar being named Capricorn, but it's just ugly. I mean is the courtroom a regular set? Because it's so great I don't understand why the other ones are so awful.
|Steve Frame||Oct 4 2007, 02:17 AM Post #36|
I watched today's OLTL too. I have been watching off and on, but got hooked on OLTL right after AMC went off tonight. Oh boy what a great show.
I absolutely loved the scene between Todd and Marcie when no words were spoken and he bent over to pick up the pacifier and hand it to Marcie.
Mary, some people do feel that Marcie is self-righteous. I have missed some of her stuff in this but I watched her from day one and the girl has gone through so much in her lifetime. She bonded with Tommy right off the bat. I feel so much for her in this. Of course I have hated Todd for so long. He is getting this back to him 10 fold for when he took Blair's child, gave it away, and told her the baby died. He thought the boy was some other mans and let Blair believe for so long that the boy was dead.
This story from beginning with Tommy being taken away has taught Todd that karma is a bitch.
I agree with you that OLTL seems to be getting what soaps are all about. I am very close to becoming a regular viewer of OLTL again. In fact if ATWT keeps going down the road it seems to be heading OLTL could get it's spot in my daily live viewing.
|IMissAremid||Oct 4 2007, 02:58 AM Post #37|
After all... tomorrow is another day!
Thanks for the context, Steve.
As I said when I began this challenge, this is my first week of watching OLTL ever so I come into this with totally fresh eyes and a blank slate on the history of it all.
Thus as I have no emotional attachment to these people a lot of my thoughts on things are just first impressions and may not be the most conventional of opinions. It's still actually very fun doing this challenge though. Thanks for proposing it.
|IMissAremid||Oct 4 2007, 08:13 PM Post #38|
After all... tomorrow is another day!
OK Thursday's episode...
I'm not even to the first commercial break and I'm already finding things I want to post about.
Once again... OLTL gets what daytime is about.
Even though I watched DOOL earlier today and I loved it, there's just something about OLTL that is so much lighter and simpler that I really like. Like it's not trying to be some daytime version of a Shakespearean tragedy but simply trying to be a good soap.
Already not even to the first commercial break and I have seen
-A random shirtless hunk coming out of the shower
-A great Dorian and Lindsay scene with a fantastic daytime diva slap.
-A cute family moment with Todd and Blair and a kid puking
-More buildup for the mystery about Langston's parents
-Romantic handholding between a couple just hanging out on a blanket
OLTL just gets it. With only one day left of this experiment before I move on to my next soap, I'm thinking I might just have to extend my stay in Llanview.
|Steve Frame||Oct 4 2007, 09:28 PM Post #39|
||I don't even have to add OLTL to my challenge next week. After watching teh whole eppy last night I am hooked again. I totally agree with all you are saying.|
|Steve Frame||Oct 8 2007, 12:49 AM Post #40|
Well my October Challenge officially ended tonight. I know October isn't over but I have had so much free time today that I finished my challenge. I have officially watched 1 full week of all 9 shows and didn't fast forward anything for that 1 full week.
Here is what I am basing these results on for each show:
AMC - 1 week plus 2 episodes from last week
ATWT - 1 week (this one)
B&B - 1 week (this last one)
Days - the last week of September and 2 and a half episodes of this week
GH - 1 week (this one) plus 2 eppys from last week
GL - 1 week
OLTL - 1 week plus 2 eppys from last week
Y&R - 1 week
The CBS shows I watch live every day. ATWT gets cut short this week some as I found myself switching channels, but I can still do this with them safely since for the last few months I have watched all of ATWT.
So here goes:
Rankings for Acting: 1) OLTL, 2) Y&R, 3) ATWT, 4) Days, 5) GL, 6) GH, 7) AMC, 8) B&B
OLTL just overall even with some weaknesses just blew me away during this time period with performances. They had a few weaknesses but the principals like St. John, Brier, Marston, Strasser, Hickland and even Easton just blew me away in the last 7 eppys.
B&B had some wonderful performances by women during the time period. But B&B's actors just pull the show down overall. Their stronger actors just weren't featured enough in this time frame to help the grade.
Other notables that blew me away from the shows: Maura West (ATWT), Jess Walton, Jeanne Cooper, Peter Bergman, Melody Scott, & Judith Chapman (Y&R), Stephen Nichols, Bryan Dattilo, & Lauren Koslow (Days), Gina Tognoni (GL), Rebecca Herbst (GH), David Canary (AMC), & Katherine Kelly Lang (B&B)
Rankings for Stories (which had stories featured during that time that make me want to tune in again): 1) OLTL, 2) Y&R, 3) GL, 4) GH, 5) B&B, 6) ATWT, 7) AMC, 8) Days
OLTL is a show that has pretty much been off my list for awhile now. I have been taping but like Days recently just wasn't interested in watching much. Boy do I regret that. OLTL is the one even above the shows that I normally watch that has me glued right now. I want to find out what happens to Lindsey. I want to know who gets Tommy and what happens to him after that. I want to know what Jared is up to? I want to know what is going to happen to Langston.
Days right now is a technically wonderful show but in the 7 and a half shows that I watched I marvelled at the acting. I marvelled at the lighting and the changes in the show. But at the same time nothing about the stories grabbed me. That has been the problem for so long now. I could give a flying fuck if Sami divorces Lucas. I definitely don't want to tune in to see her married to her rapist. Nick with the kids is cute, but I could care less what happens to them. I don't know them. Why should I care? I could definitely care less if Stephanie & Chelsea get into the sorority or not? I didn't care at all that Lauren got killed. I hardly knew her.
Other notable stories and notes. I will say that the recent spoiler I read about ATWT influenced my vote here for the show and severely handicapped the grade. If I didn't know what was going to happen in Luke's story and Carly's story, the show would have been ranked higher. But I do know what is going to happen. And I could care less now.
Stories that I am interested in from the shows: Daisy's pregnancy & Alan and Reva's secret (GL); Ji Min's murder <because of Jill and Kay and Jack> (Y&R); Eric & Donna <which shocked me> (B&B); what Trevor Lansing is up to & the Scott/Logan relationship (GH); Richie/Wes & his connections to Annie <more because of the character than the actual story though> (AMC)
Rankings for shows based on overall technical, direction, look, sets & acting:
1) Y&R, 2) Days, 3) OLTL, 4) GH, 5) ATWT, 6) B&B, 7) AMC, 8) GL
Rankings for the shows (based purely on how much I enjoyed watching them)
1) OLTL, 2) Y&R, 3) GL, 4) ATWT, 5) B&B, 6) GH, 7) AMC, 8) Days
As Mary said, "OLTL just gets what a soap is about right now." - that is the jest of her quote anyway. LOL
OLTL had angst, it had passion, it had romance, it had family moments, it had fun...... it was just pure enjoyment watching it. And that is something that I have not been able to do with OLTL in a long time. It was about people that I cared about and knew even though I have not watched in awhile. It was like sitting down and catching up with a familiar old friend that I had not seen in awhile.
AMC, Days, and OLTL all shared one thing in common when I started this - more than any of the 8 current shows, I felt disconnected from all 3 of these shows. The other 5 I have had an off again/on again relationship for most of 2005. I have missed a lot of watching them in 2007 but not as much as I have AMC, OLTL, and Days.
With those 3 shows there have been large portions of 2007 where I might watch a total of 1 episode a week by the time I fast forwarded through the stuff I cared nothing about. So I have been so disconnected from them. Also it had been 4 weeks since I had even watched any of the 3 at all. I just had no desire too. So I sat down with these 3 on equal ground.
When it was all said and done, OLTL was the only one that made me feel like I was catching up with an old friend I had seen for awhile. And that is a big plus in my eyes. That is the way a soap opera should make a lapsed viewer feel when they tune back in. It should make them wonder how we drifted apart and not even really remember why. It should intrigue you into wanting to know what these old friends have been up too. That is what OLTL did for me.
So I declare OLTL the big winner of my October Challenge.
I will continue to check in on Days & AMC but right now they have to be declared the losers because neither really intrigued me enough to want to start back watching.
|1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)|
|« Previous Topic · Y&R & B&B: News, Spoilers & Discussion · Next Topic »|