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DAYS: Weekly Discussion; Week of May 26
Topic Started: May 26 2008, 01:56 AM (8,787 Views)
IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

Mason
May 31 2008, 11:48 PM
King
May 31 2008, 11:17 PM
I agree that I thought this week's was another round of pretty good episodes. There are come parts of DAYS that are lacking, but other parts are amazing...I'll take that. It's better than the show being complete crap like it was for January-May of 2007.
Sadly, I would take even January-April 2007 over what we're getting now. It may have been boring as hell, but at least the day to day writing was good. I can't even say that for the show now.
How was the day-to-day writing all that much better from January-April 2007 when day to day the show straight up SUCKED?

A few things from that time period that irked me besides the boredom...
-EJ and Phillip, currently Salem's resident sex gods, were stupidly being wasted as obsessive psychos.
-The random Max and Mimi romance was developed right before Mimi was leaving just like the Max and Abby romance right before Abby was gone.
-The pointless introduction of characters like Ned Stark, Connor Lockhart, Duck and whatsherface.
-The corny line "pry it from my cold dead hand" being used a lot.
-The horrible island storyline for Shelle killed support for both characters with many fans.
-Chick started going off the rails with the craptastic Dr. Rebert story and Billie and Nick's dalliance
-There were the awful John-Marlena fantasy dream sequences when John was in the coma.
-Willow Stark just ran around all the stories from one humiliation to the next.
-Sami did nothing but cry and scheme to keep one secret for five months.
-Steve and Kayla were pretty awful with the nuthouse story.

Is that enough?

I mean I don't think what is going on now is OMG this is the best Days has ever been, but for me it's light years better than the tedium and lack of romance or fun inherent in DOOL during early 2007.
Edited by IMissAremid, Jun 1 2008, 03:28 AM.
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Red Mist
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IMissAremid
Jun 1 2008, 03:28 AM
Mason
May 31 2008, 11:48 PM
King
May 31 2008, 11:17 PM
I agree that I thought this week's was another round of pretty good episodes. There are come parts of DAYS that are lacking, but other parts are amazing...I'll take that. It's better than the show being complete crap like it was for January-May of 2007.
Sadly, I would take even January-April 2007 over what we're getting now. It may have been boring as hell, but at least the day to day writing was good. I can't even say that for the show now.
How was the day-to-day writing all that much better from January-April 2007 when day to day the show straight up SUCKED?

A few things from that time period that irked me besides the boredom...
-EJ and Phillip, currently Salem's resident sex gods, were stupidly being wasted as obsessive psychos.
-The random Max and Mimi romance was developed right before Mimi was leaving just like the Max and Abby romance right before Abby was gone.
-The pointless introduction of characters like Ned Stark, Connor Lockhart, Duck and whatsherface.
-The corny line "pry it from my cold dead hand" being used a lot.
-The horrible island storyline for Shelle killed support for both characters with many fans.
-Chick started going off the rails with the craptastic Dr. Rebert story and Billie and Nick's dalliance
-There were the awful John-Marlena fantasy dream sequences when John was in the coma.
-Willow Stark just ran around all the stories from one humiliation to the next.
-Sami did nothing but cry and scheme to keep one secret for five months.
-Steve and Kayla were pretty awful with the nuthouse story.

Is that enough?

I mean I don't think what is going on now is OMG this is the best Days has ever been, but for me it's light years better than the tedium and lack of romance or fun inherent in DOOL during early 2007.
:hail: Mary, you say what I am thinking but with many more words and in such a more intelligent way then I can convey. Seriously, I tuned out of Hogan's rein. I came back to see the Vendetta sl, and we know how HOG wasted that golden opportunity with utter foolishness. The man was worse then James E Reilly ever was during his second stint or Higley was during her first. I am so thankful Hogan is off DAYS. I think Higley is doing a good job. She has had alot to clean up. Hopefully she has seen what Hogan and Reilly's mistakes were and learned from them. I am not happy with all of DOOLS right now, but I am at least happy with half of it, which is alot more then when Hogan Sheffer was HW.
Edited by Red Mist, Jun 1 2008, 07:42 AM.
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King
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Hoagie did what no writer - JER, Higley, Langan - could ever get me to do, which was tune out of DAYS for months at a time. I would watch maybe the first six minutes of an episode and delete it for MONTHS. God, so awful! :frustration:

Seriously, Langan's was more entertaining for me. Of course, Hoagie may not have been writing and blah blah. But nonetheless, 2007 was the worst year for DAYS for me, overall.
Edited by King, Jun 1 2008, 09:01 AM.
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Mason


Well, y'all are entitled to your opinions just as I'm entitled to mine. I certainly didn't expect many people to agree with me, LoL.
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Mason


Anyway, the fact that I could prefer all of that from early 2007 over what we're getting now should tell you just how bored I am with the show right now.
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Ives
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PhoenixRising05
May 31 2008, 01:17 AM

Steve/Kayla: I am really liking the Baby Johnson story. Loved the name Joe and I think Shelly, Mary Beth, and Stephen have all been great. MBE crying always has me tearing up. I like the realistic feel of the scenes and I did enjoy the Kayla/Ava scenes last week. The Steve/Kayla nursery scenes were cute yesterday but, as others mentioned, there is a big issue here and that is the Steve/Ava thing. The show can still salvage it but it has to be addressed. SN and MBE were playing the distance but now it's nonexistent. Higley really needs to give us something with that because it's a major hindrance and is taking away from this story.

Stephen and Mary Beth are having a fan event in CA today. Mary Beth said that to date, NOTHING has been scripted for ANY fallout from Kayla finding Steve in bed with Ava. Any distance, anger or discomfort that has been shown (esp. in the beginning) was purely SN and MBE adding it in. Mary Beth said that she has gone to the higher ups about this. And we know she was very vocal about it in her SOD interview a couple of weeks ago. Not sure what will happen . . .

How obvious can it be that there would be SOME discussion (and fallout, IMO) after a wife finds her husband in bed with another woman? Isn't that the angsty stuff that makes up a soap? Heck, Lucas and Sami got a discussion within minutes after he found Sami and EJ together. And it is not like SN and MBE cannot handle that angsty, emotional stuff. They shine during those types of scenes.

Oh, and kudos to SN and MBE for making themselves available for the fan event today even though they obviously have other stuff going on. Stephen's daughter got married yesterday and MBE's daughter graduated from high school.
Edited by Ives, Jun 1 2008, 09:49 PM.
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Mason


Ives
Jun 1 2008, 09:41 PM
Mary Beth said that to date, NOTHING has been scripted for ANY fallout from Kayla finding Steve in bed with Ava. Any distance, anger or discomfort that has been shown (esp. in the beginning) was purely SN and MBE adding it in.
Somehow, this doesn't surprise me. Just another example of plot over character writing.
Edited by Mason, Jun 1 2008, 10:02 PM.
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Red Mist
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Mason
Jun 1 2008, 10:01 PM
Ives
Jun 1 2008, 09:41 PM
Mary Beth said that to date, NOTHING has been scripted for ANY fallout from Kayla finding Steve in bed with Ava. Any distance, anger or discomfort that has been shown (esp. in the beginning) was purely SN and MBE adding it in.
Somehow, this doesn't surprise me. Just another example of plot over character writing.
I agree with you about this Mason.
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Ellie


Ives
Jun 1 2008, 09:41 PM
Stephen and Mary Beth are having a fan event in CA today. Mary Beth said that to date, NOTHING has been scripted for ANY fallout from Kayla finding Steve in bed with Ava. Any distance, anger or discomfort that has been shown (esp. in the beginning) was purely SN and MBE adding it in. Mary Beth said that she has gone to the higher ups about this.
Thanks for sharing that with us. Honestly, that doesn't surprise me at all that nothing was scripted. The show has become a series of two to three week story arcs. I just watched Friday's John and Marlena scenes. Some of the most emotional, angsty material they've had in a long time. Both Drake and Deidre hit it out of the park. And... Marlena's now been removed from the canvas for two weeks. S&K and J&M aren't the only victims of Higley's writing, though. Bo's disease? Completely cured. Chelsea's organ donation and illness afterwards? Over and done with. Kate's involvement with Martino? He's dead now. Nicole/Victor? Guess we're taking a break from that. I could list example after example. This is not how to build audience and keep viewers engaged! Which is why, imo, the ratings have been exactly the same for weeks. The viewers come and go just like the stories do. No consistency or buildup at all.
Edited by Ellie, Jun 1 2008, 10:40 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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Ellie
Jun 1 2008, 10:38 PM
Ives
Jun 1 2008, 09:41 PM
Stephen and Mary Beth are having a fan event in CA today. Mary Beth said that to date, NOTHING has been scripted for ANY fallout from Kayla finding Steve in bed with Ava. Any distance, anger or discomfort that has been shown (esp. in the beginning) was purely SN and MBE adding it in. Mary Beth said that she has gone to the higher ups about this.
Thanks for sharing that with us. Honestly, that doesn't surprise me at all that nothing was scripted. The show has become a series of two to three week story arcs. I just watched Friday's John and Marlena scenes. Some of the most emotional, angsty material they've had in a long time. Both Drake and Deidre hit it out of the park. And... Marlena's now been removed from the canvas for two weeks. S&K and J&M aren't the only victims of Higley's writing, though. Bo's disease? Completely cured. Chelsea's organ donation and illness afterwards? Over and done with. Kate's involvement with Martino? He's dead now. Nicole/Victor? Guess we're taking a break from that. I could list example after example. This is not how to build audience and keep viewers engaged! Which is why, imo, the ratings have been exactly the same for weeks. The viewers come and go just like the stories do. No consistency or buildup at all.
I agree about Steve and Kayla but I don't agree about the other stories you have mentioned. Roman and Kate just had a discussion about her and Martino last week about her relationship with him and it was mentioned by Bo and Hope too this week. Nicole and Victor has not been dropped. The divorce comes up all the time when Nicole talks to EJ and Victor returns this week so somehow I think we will get Nicole/Victor scenes at some point. Bo's illness had fallout that went on for weeks, as did Chelsea's role in helping him. Hell, they had Peter Reckell and Rachel Melvin wear makeup for a few weeks to make them appear still sickly. Chelsea's infertility has been mentioned quite a bit as well.

I know you are disappointed in the J&M story but I don't see how Marlena's two week absence, which is really no big deal and reeks of them trying to make sure she doesn't go too far over her guarantee (and I don't expect Dee to mention that publicly either), to hinder that story. I am very pleased with the story because it's focusing on them as individuals (I wish we had more scenes of Marlena counseling people like she has Victor and Ava in the past few months but I digress). If they focused too much on romance too fast, this story would be over by August. I would think fans of J&M would want to milk this because, in all honesty, I can see J&M being on the backburner after this because, frankly, it seems like every writer since JER's first stint has had a hell of a time writing for them together as a couple in a story and, in many ways, I can understand that but that's another story. I think J&M fans expected an 80's like love story and that isn't happening anymore nor do I think many viewers would enjoy it outside of the J&M fanbase. I think this is still a love story but it's not going to be this traditional romance novel type thing. It's going to be more modern and I think that is needed in today's world because soaps need to start evolving. Enough with trying to replicate past glory eras.

I can clearly see the direction here. Marlena is confused, as she should be. That is why I see no problem with the writing of her as I explained in my previous posts. Her husband died and came back a completely different person. I think she wants to accept him and make an effort but her heart won't let her because everytime she does something else happens to put more distance there and to make her feel like there is nothing to this John that she can love. I think she only agreed to accept him after her first trip away in April because he was going to try to let her change him. I think she soon realized that was nothing and that he is who he is and he will have to change on his own, meaning he will have to initiate it moreso then her. My only problem with Marlena is that what others said is true...she's become entirely about John again. However, I can't blame Higley for that. That would've happened regardless of who was writing. No matter what happens she will always revert to that. It's happened since JER's first run. Just look at that run. J&M were apart most of JER's run and she was feisty, formidable, etc. The minute they reunite she becomes Jello. I think that is because a big part of J&M is that he comes to her rescue all the time. It's not like Bo and Hope where she saves his ass sometimes. I can't even count on one hand the amount of times Marlena has saved John from something.

Days has some issues but I don't think plot is being put before characters. Hell, the people at Goldderby who usually pan the show are saying Days is more character-driven now then under Hogan. I know that is their view but still to me it means something because they despise Days so them giving Days and Higley credit just indicates to me she is doing something right. I think there are problems, the Steve/Kayla one being the biggest and I do hope that is rectified because it can be, but I think the other issues are minor at best but it's up to each individual's perception really.

I will also say that even if Days fixed these problems and made changes that fall in line with some of the complaints by fans, it wouldn't make a lick of difference ratings-wise. Ratings just aren't going to go up much, if at all. Stunts will get you a temporary boost and then it will be back down you go. It's just the way it is now, sadly. A show can be a masterpiece and still stand pat. Look at OLTL. The show has been AMAZING for weeks and all it can get is the little increases it got when it deserves far more.
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Jun 1 2008, 11:59 PM.
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

Poor Steve and Kayla. Why did we have to sit through a whole week of Lucas and Sami yelling/crying after EJami were found in bed together and they can't even write one scene acknowledging the Ava thing. Ugh.

Oh and something else I found hilarious watching the repeat on SoapNet just now is Roman's splash of ketchup on the corner of his mouth.... errr I mean fat lip caused by John's karate chop totally disappears after that one scene yet the same Salem day he is seen at the cop shop and at Chez Rouge with no fat lip at all. So ridiculous.
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Mason


PhoenixRising05
Jun 1 2008, 11:57 PM
Hell, the people at Goldderby who usually pan the show are saying Days is more character-driven now then under Hogan.
PAHAHAHA!!!

Seriously, that's the best laugh I've had all day.
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PhoenixRising05
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Eh. He got hit but it doesn't mean he would have anything on his face as a result. Maybe a minor mark but not necessarily noticeable.
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PhoenixRising05
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Mason
Jun 2 2008, 12:00 AM
PhoenixRising05
Jun 1 2008, 11:57 PM
Hell, the people at Goldderby who usually pan the show are saying Days is more character-driven now then under Hogan.
PAHAHAHA!!!

Seriously, that's the best laugh I've had all day.
Very true. I may still be enjoying Days right now but I would love having Hogan back. Nevertheless, no sense in debating this anymore. We all know where we stand on the issue.
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Mason


I'm not debating anything. I just think it's hilarious that people actually think this plot-driven crap is supposed to be about the characters.
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PhoenixRising05
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^Oh, I know Mason. I know you aren't debating. I just don't want to get into another Hogan debate. I'm not saying all the stories are character-driven but I do feel more are then many actually think but I guess we will just agree to disagree there.
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Mason


My criticism of Higley has absolutely nothing to do with Hogan. Did I enjoy his work? For the most part, yes. Do I wish he was back? Absolutely. But how I feel about Hogan, contrary to what anyone might think, is not clouding my judgment on Higley's current material.

The stories have gone back to being all about the plot, if you ask me. Unlike during Hogan's run when the characters actually seemed "real", the writing has regressed and so the characters have lost that sense of realness. IMO, the writing on DAYS right now is only a small step above where it was from 2003-2006 under Higley and then JER.
Edited by Mason, Jun 2 2008, 12:13 AM.
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Ellie


Phoenix - I disagree completely about the other stories. I don't think wearing illness makeup for a few weeks counts as followup to a major story. The same goes for discussions or 'mentions' afterwards. I think the way to engage viewers is to slowly introduce a new plot point, build up to it, eventually reveal what the new twist will be, develop the story, show the climax of the story, and then afterwards show the fallout as it relates to all of the affected characters. The process I just described should take many months, not weeks. I also disagree with you about the ratings. When viewers become invested in a story, and when they expect followup, they tune in each day. If viewers know that next week a new story will begin, they'll have no reason to tune in this week.

Regarding J&M, the reason many fans were expecting an '80's style story is because the magazines said as much in the winter. But aside from that, I could not disagree more regarding the current story and Marlena's confusion over her feelings. It seems to be going in circles. The story needs to progress. Any viewer who was riveted by Friday's scenes, as I was, will be sorely disappointed tomorrow to find out that the story has taken a complete turn. And let's say that Higley wanted to actually work in Marlena's departure. Wouldn't she show Marlena's getting a phone call about Eric's accident? Wouldn't she show Marlena speaking to John about it? Wouldn't she show Roman (Eric's father) involved as well?

I agree with all of those who are saying Higley's writing is completely plot-driven. It's like Sheffer-lite. No lasting emotional connections between the characters, and certainly not between the characters and the viewers. The ratings are really no surprise to me at all.
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PhoenixRising05
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Ellie
Jun 2 2008, 12:29 AM
Phoenix - I disagree completely about the other stories. I don't think wearing illness makeup for a few weeks counts as followup to a major story. The same goes for discussions or 'mentions' afterwards. I think the way to engage viewers is to slowly introduce a new plot point, build up to it, eventually reveal what the new twist will be, develop the story, show the climax of the story, and then afterwards show the fallout as it relates to all of the affected characters. The process I just described should take many months, not weeks. I also disagree with you about the ratings. When viewers become invested in a story, and when they expect followup, they tune in each day. If viewers know that next week a new story will begin, they'll have no reason to tune in this week.

Regarding J&M, the reason many fans were expecting an '80's style story is because the magazines said as much in the winter. But aside from that, I could not disagree more regarding the current story and Marlena's confusion over her feelings. It seems to be going in circles. The story needs to progress. Any viewer who was riveted by Friday's scenes, as I was, will be sorely disappointed tomorrow to find out that the story has taken a complete turn. And let's say that Higley wanted to actually work in Marlena's departure. Wouldn't she show Marlena's getting a phone call about Eric's accident? Wouldn't she show Marlena speaking to John about it? Wouldn't she show Roman (Eric's father) involved as well?

I agree with all of those who are saying Higley's writing is completely plot-driven. It's like Sheffer-lite. No lasting emotional connections between the characters, and certainly not between the characters and the viewers. The ratings are really no surprise to me at all.
I wasn't just referring to the makeup. I was referring to how long they dragged out the aftermath of the surgery and Chelsea's illness and the fact it left her infertile still is being mentioned at times. I honestly don't know what else one would want. The show's only an hour a day.

I disagree about the rest. Why should they show Marlena getting to call? It's supposed to come as a shock that she's gone so it comes off like she left John. It sets up kind of a cliffhanger in a way. Granted, it's only a brief one but still. What you are discussing borders on JER-like. The cast is just too big to show every waking moment and you can't get rid of anyone because then the fans boycott so you can't win.

The magazines said it was a J&M love story and both Dee and Drake have said all along it would be this push-pull type thing, which it is. It's not going to happen at the pace so many J&M fans think and let me just say many J&M fans jumped to the wrong conclusions the minute John came back. They expected it to be something right out of the 80's and that set this story up for failure to begin with. It's also important to note that strike stuff had to be ended too so naturally alot of things were going in circles for a bit.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. The show could be a masterpiece and still wouldn't see the sort of ratings increase you are talking about. It's just not happening. Also, if you go ahead and get rid of Higley, the next writer will get the same treatment. Some will like it, some won't. Days fans are never totally pleased. Shakesphere could write the show and some would still complain.

I'm not saying the show isn't without fault. It has many. I just disagree about many of the points being raised but what else is new LOL.
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DrewHamilton
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Ellie, I agree with what you're saying. Little moments like the ones you described revolving around Marlena's deparutre are what makes me happy. And no, it doesn't have to be similar to Reilly's style of writing at all. If it were Reilly, Marlena would get the call one day, be on the phone with whoever the next day, tell her family the following day and then take the entire next episode to write the damn letter before heading off. That's Reilly.

All of what Ellie mentioned could be placed in one freaking episode. Overbloated cast? No room? How about we start cutting out scenes that no one gives a damn about? They're always so quick to cut out a John and Marlena scene. Why not start cutting out Max and Stephanie? Why not start cutting out the pedophile storyline with Daniel and Chelsea?

Why not? Oh, that's right because those are stories that Dena Higley is interested in and who the fuck cares about what anyone else thinks? Who cares if storie plots are coming out of fucking nowhere? Who cares if characters are becoming so boring it's nauseating? Who cares? As long as Dena Higley cares then she's going to write it.
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