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LATEST RATINGS: CBS Up in Viewers; DAYS plummets in 18-34 & 18-49
Topic Started: Jun 26 2008, 09:39 PM (3,438 Views)
Steve Frame
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Sindacco
Jun 27 2008, 02:01 PM
Steve Frame
Jun 27 2008, 12:18 PM
Sherri was only good to me when she was part of a strong writing team - like at first with Smith/DePreist and then even later assissting DePriest. But that was it.

And I will always blame JER for creating many of Days biggest problems. He to me is the one that created so much stuff that forever changed the direction of Days and to me caused it to become very much disregarded by many in the soap industry. He brought publicity to Days but I don't think that is always a good thing.

He and Gloria Monty I lump into a category together. They forever changed the face of daytime and the soaps they wrote for but they also caused more overall damage to daytime and the soaps they wrote. Monty is the one who created this soap opera supercouple craze and created this strive for the younger viewer. she created these big adventure stories that can't be done now that smaller budgets are the norms. And they are what fans want because that is what they go accustomed too. Too many of the older viewers who are used to soaps like they used to be have been alienated and are no longer around to watch anymore. They are the ones who appreciate the moments and not the adventures and events.

JER created this over the top stuff that so many of the soaps tried to duplicate after the possession story. That story alone caused Days more damage than anything. All the constant raisings from the dead, and over the top mess is what caused daytime soaps to be laughed at by so many outside the industry and even further looked down upon than they were in the first place.
You can blame JER for the destruction of DAys or whatever you wanna call it but how can you blame him for the whole daytime? If other soaps wanted to write more like him it's not his fault, it's their own.
Sorry but I think I can and I will.

It is not just the fact that other writers copied him. He caused the daytime soap opera genre to lose credibility.

Soap operas have always copied one another. It is a known fact. They all see something that works on one show and they copy it. Hell it's not just soaps it is all of TV and entertainment. Do you think if the first reality show had failed others would have come along - hell no. They saw them working and copied them.

Why do you think they steal writers, couples, actors, etc. They want to duplicate what works on one show.

Gloria Monty and JER are both to blame for what has happened to the genre. And I agree with Phoenix, JER will go down along with Monty as 2 of the people who killed the daytime soap opera genre. They did some good but to me the bad things they did far outweigh the good.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Steve is right but the problem is people don't seem to have the patience anymore to adjust to new characters. They just don't. That is why it seems soaps like Days have to just stick with what works, sadly. I think the time has passed where they can effectively pass the torch and attempt to get people to accept it.

I do agree with Sindacco though. Not necessarily here on the DR but if you go to other boards, people just don't give new characters a chance. Hell, there are some people still upset about the Reeds/Roberts family having an important place on the show for years.

To go along with Steve's post, it's a shame that Monty and JER have to be put into the category of destroying soaps but they do. I say it's a shame because they could write good things. In regards to JER, he just needed to be tamed. That is why he did so well with Sheri Anderson. All both Monty and JER did was provide short-term fixes and encouraged others to go along with that and it's a trend soaps continue to this day and it's why so many fans, particularly the ones who matter in the ratings, now only want events and action.
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Jun 27 2008, 02:17 PM.
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Kenny
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Sindacco
Jun 27 2008, 02:10 PM
I have seen so many others complain about it. Everytime there is a new character people will say something sarcastic like "oh great, another newbies just what we need" or some shit like that.
Well, don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of overflowing the canvas with a thousand newbies either, but I do recognize the need for a few of them now and again.
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Manny
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You can all say this or that... but I just think that after so many years of soaps being on TV, people just got tired of them. And I guess that's normal... and even if Bill Bell came back to life and wrote for DAYS or whatever soap, that ratings wouldn't go up...

That's just my opinion... Yeah, bad stories increase the drop of ratings, but they would drop sooner or later (only at maybe a smaller rate..)
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Steve Frame
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PhoenixRising05
Jun 27 2008, 02:14 PM
Steve is right but the problem is people don't seem to have the patience anymore to adjust to new characters. They just don't. That is why it seems soaps like Days have to just stick with what works, sadly. I think the time has passed where they can effectively pass the torch and attempt to get people to accept it.

I do agree with Sindacco though. Not necessarily here on the DR but if you go to other boards, people just don't give new characters a chance. Hell, there are some people still upset about the Reeds/Roberts family having an important place on the show for years.
I think the biggest thing that hurts new characters - esp. Days news characters is that Days has not tried to develep a good new character for years - outside of a purpose on the show.

They create new characters for one purpose alone - usually as an interloper. Kate, Billie, and others have never really been develped beyond their original purposes. So people are just tired of them.

Plus with soap fans being so couple oriented now - interlopers never get a chance anyway.

If the fans of today were transferred back to late 60's and early 70's, we would have never had characters like Erica Kane or Rachel Davis to have lasted long on soaps. They would have been gone - because that is all their original purposes were. Erica was the interloper in Phil & Tara's romance and Rachel was the interloper in Steve & Alice's romance.

Agnes Nixon created both and she did a wonderful job of creating the characters in such a way that the audience loved them. but today that wouldn't even be given a chance.

The sad thing is that today the writers don't really try to make you like them or understand them.
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Steve Frame
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Manny
Jun 27 2008, 02:19 PM
You can all say this or that... but I just think that after so many years of soaps being on TV, people just got tired of them. And I guess that's normal... and even if Bill Bell came back to life and wrote for DAYS or whatever soap, that ratings wouldn't go up...

That's just my opinion... Yeah, bad stories increase the drop of ratings, but they would drop sooner or later (only at maybe a smaller rate..)
It all goes back to what you condition your fans to be like.

If Bill Bell came back to Y&R and wrote it - you would see the older Y&R fans who would come back. Bell conditioned the fans to a certain type of viewing and they were happy with it. They were accustomed to things happening at a slower pace. Things didn't change back and forth with each new regime.

Days has groomed a certain kind of fan in the last 15 years and now they want to change that. And they just keep trying to change it too often. They created in the last 10 to 15 years, a fan who looks for the big stories like Kristen, Maison Blanche, the big supercouple fans and stuff. Now they can't live up to that.
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Sindacco
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Steve Frame
Jun 27 2008, 02:07 PM
Sindacco
Jun 27 2008, 01:58 PM
Charmqn
Jun 27 2008, 12:59 PM
DOOL sucks...I don't care if there is a tiny improvement. The majority of viewers don't want to watch the adventures of Stax and Chan...they don't care about them. They want their vets, the people they are used to...Bope, Steve/Kayla,Jarlena, etc....

How about you run episodes of what happens backstage(gossip, BI, whatever) that is more of a soapopera then DOOL is right now.
In the 80s when todays vets were newbies did people complain? Or was vets like Mickey and Maggie, Doug and Julie still on much in their own stories?
I will answer that - yes they were.

Back then true and good soap writers knew taht you gradually blended in your new characters with the old. The old characters were right there in stories right along with the new and helped to introduce them.

you hardly ever had a story that was led by a newcomer - they were right along with a veteran character or characters. And the older generation was blended with the younger generation in stories too.

In the late 70's, AW had one of the biggest teen scenes on daytime, but the teens even during the summer didn't have the only stories going or run the show. They had Joey, Jamie, Blaine, Dennis, Cecile, Eileen, Morgan, Sally and many others. It was a big teen scene at the time, but the vets and older characters were still very much a part of their story. Joey & Eileen's tragic love story was as much about their parents as it was them. Jamie & Dennis' problems very much affected the stories for their parents while they got stories going. Jamie's problems with Blaine are what kicked off the last big story for Mac & Rachel - the quadrangle with Mitch and Janice.
Thanks for answering my question. I have only seen edited clips from the 80s, never full episodes so I don't know how they built it back then.

The reason I asked was because I was looking at the episode rankings on Jason's site and I noticed that the top 10 for some years didn't have many vets. And alot of those that today complain about the vets being pushed to the side are 80s fans.

Here is top 10 for 1985
1. Patsy Pease (Kimberly Brady) 160
2. Peter Reckell (Bo Brady) 158
3. Kristian Alfonso (Hope Williams Brady) 157
4. Charles Shaughnessy (Shane Donovan) 153
5. Lisa Trusel (Melissa Anderson) 146
6. Deidre Hall (Marlena Evans) 135
7. Michael Leon (Pete Jannings) 133
8. John de Lancie (Eugene Bradford) 115
9. Josh Taylor (Chris Kositchek) 113
10. Leann Hunley (Anna DiMera) 109

1986
1. Kristian Alfonso (Hope Brady) 163
2. Charles Shaughnessy (Shane Donovan) 162
3. Drake Hogestyn (John Black/Roman Brady) 161
4. Patsy Pease (Kimberly Brady) 155
5. Peter Reckell (Bo Brady) 154
6. Stephen Nichols (Steve "Patch" Johnson) 152
7. John Aniston (Victor Kiriakis) 147
8. Deidre Hall (Marlena Evans Brady) 123
9. Michael T. Weiss (Mike Horton) 116
10. Derya Ruggles (Robin Jacobs) 105

1987
1. Mary Beth Evans (Kayla Brady) 167
*. Stephen Nichols (Steve “Patch” Johnson) 167
3. Patsy Pease (Kimberly Donovan) 155
4. Charles Shaughnessy (Shane Donovan) 153
5. Judi Evans (Adrienne Johnson Kiriakis) 147
6. Drake Hogestyn (Roman Brady) 142
7. Wally Kurth (Justin Kiriakis) 135
8. John Aniston (Victor Kiriakis) 130
9. Melissa Brennan (Jennifer Horton) 116
10. Billy Warlock (Frankie Brady) 114

1988
1. Drake Hogestyn (Roman Brady) 158
2. Stephen Nichols (Steve "Patch" Johnson) 154
3. Mary Beth Evans (Kayla Brady Johnson) 150
4. Genie Francis (Diana Colville) 149
5. Charles Shaughnessy (Shane Donovan-145/Drew Donovan-36) 145
6. Judi Evans (Adrienne Kiriakis) 120
7. Wally Kurth (Justin Kiriakis) 116
8. Patsy Pease (Kimberly Brady) 114
9. Charlotte Ross (Eve Donovan) 107
10. Michael T. Weiss (Mike Horton) 104

1989
1. Stephen Nichols (Steve “Patch” Johnson) 163
2. Mary Beth Evans (Kayla Johnson) 147
3. Patsy Pease (Kimberly Donovan) 136
4. Matthew Ashford (Jack Deveraux) 127
5. Charles Shaughnessy (Shane Donovan) 126
6. Drake Hogestyn (Roman Brady) 124
7. Charlotte Ross (Eve Donovan) 120
8. George Jenesky (Nick Corelli) 116
9. Wally Kurth (Justin Kiriakis) 109
10. Judi Evans (Adrienne Kiriakis) 108


http://members.aol.com/jason47b/
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Steve Frame
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The sad thing about Days is that they didn't have a lot of long time veterans around at the time for people to get mad about. They had fired most of them back in 1980 when they lost the majority of their big ratings from the 1970's. the biggest uproar at this time came from teh firing of Bill & Susan Hayes. That did get a lot of uproar.

But Deidre Hall was really the only big time vet of the time. And she was still used a lot.

Suzanne Rogers quit the show during some of those years.

But the other remaining vets Josh Taylor as Chris was still around while he was there, Mac Carey & Frances Reid weren't in the top 10 but they were always around. John Clarke was always seen too. The stories don't have to be essentially about the vets - just as long as they are part of the story - guiding the new characters and establishing them. Give them a sense of the familiar.

But sadly at this time Days didn't have a lot of vets left. They were just about all gone.
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Dayzfan
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How the hell are Days,ATWT and GL going to make it past this year without being canned?God Almighty,those are Passions kind of numbers!
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Rakesh198
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Dayzfan
Jun 27 2008, 02:57 PM
How the hell are Days,ATWT and GL going to make it past this year without being canned?God Almighty,those are Passions kind of numbers!
Atleast Passions dominated that 12-17 demo.
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Mason
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PhoenixRising05
Jun 27 2008, 12:15 AM
You know what? I don't think Days is as bad as some.
Believe me. We know.
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Steve Frame
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Rakesh198
Jun 27 2008, 03:13 PM
Dayzfan
Jun 27 2008, 02:57 PM
How the hell are Days,ATWT and GL going to make it past this year without being canned?God Almighty,those are Passions kind of numbers!
Atleast Passions dominated that 12-17 demo.
Not at the end they didn't.

Many times in 2005 and 2006 in particular GH and OLTL beat Passions in the 12 to 17 girls demo.
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King
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It is really hard. I don't know what storylines DAYS could tell that we haven't seen in form or another.

I love my blog, and I think I do fun/good stuff there, but I know most of it wouldn't fly on daytime. I don't know if it is Corday or NBC or what, but I know it will never end.
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Mason
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I'm not even gonna get into the Higley/Corday/Hogan/JER/whomever debate.

All I'll say is that DAYS deserves these numbers, and they're no surprise to me, whatsoever.
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King
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I just think it's clear that DAYS has had a severe decline in quality and in ratings in the past 8 years, no matter who the writer is. I think this is due to Corday gaining more and more creative control, but I guess we will never know. And basically, I think we are all tired of caring/trying to figure it out. :laugh:


I don't really know why OLTL is dropping. I mean I don't think it's unbelievable right now, but everyone else is obsessed with it.
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Steve Frame
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Mike, I think the biggest thing is that it is not they won't fly in daytime - it is just that we don't have the powers that be anymore who have the balls to let them fly in daytime.

They are too scared to tell a story anymore. The networks have always been scared but many times the powers that be like Irna Phillips and others had to fight for what they wanted. They aren't willing to fight anymore. One hint of negative feedback and they pull the plug. Or they back down.

I think if daytime were more daring and more willing to push the buttons with some stories - it would make a world of difference. Give viewers some shocks again. Make them wonder what is going to happen next.

Let a big character die and let them stay dead. Soaps have done it before and they didn't give in to the masses. As I have said before there was no bigger outcries ever than when ATWT killed off Jeff Baker and AW killed off Mary Matthews and Steve Frame. Did they back down? No. Did they give into the fans? No.

did the ratings bottom out and drop? No.

They need to tell a good gay love story and so on. They need to tell stories for all generations, etc.

Most of all they need to just get a plan and stick with it.
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Steve Frame
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King
Jun 27 2008, 04:07 PM
I just think it's clear that DAYS has had a severe decline in quality and in ratings in the past 8 years, no matter who the writer is. I think this is due to Corday gaining more and more creative control, but I guess we will never know. And basically, I think we are all tired of caring/trying to figure it out. :laugh:


I don't really know why OLTL is dropping. I mean I don't think it's unbelievable right now, but everyone else is obsessed with it.
Honestly I think OLTL is just suffering from apathy for all soaps in general. They are sandwiched between 2 soaps that are not that great right now. And sandwiched in a genre that is just losing respect.

I admit that I love OLTL but often I find myself watching something else in the mornings and I end up leaving it on that channel and forgetting to change when OLTL comes on. So I will either try to catch it that night or SoapNet or just say hell with it and read the recap the next day online.
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Mason
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I think it's gotten to the point that, no matter how great any of the soaps get, the ratings are still just going to keep going down. The ratings haven't reflected quality in years, now.
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Steve Frame
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See that is where people misinterpret ratings. Ratings have never been about quality. Not from the beginning of their creation. Some of the poorest quality shows have been at the top of the ratings pack from time to time - in primetime and daytime.

Do you think ATWT which was #1 in ratings for 20 years was top notch in quality all that time. No they weren't. Shows like Love of Life esp. were top notch in quality at times esp. under Labine/Mayer, but their ratings were never that great.

Where the Heart Is was always a good quality show but never had outstanding ratings.

People keep comparing quality and ratings but they are two totally different things. Ratings were never designed to judge quality - that is left to the critics.
Edited by Steve Frame, Jun 27 2008, 04:28 PM.
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Steve Frame
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One last thing on that subject, if ratings reflected quality a show like Hill Street Blues which was one of the most critically acclaimed shows ever in primetime would have been in the top 10 shows but it never was. It always hovered near the bottom.
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