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LATEST RATINGS: Good week for All soaps; All soaps rise in HH except GL
Topic Started: Jul 17 2008, 12:01 PM (2,200 Views)
King
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...as well as Iraq and Alex North.
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Tripp
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Geekette

King
Jul 20 2008, 02:35 PM
Marlena was pretty weak during the rest of Hogan's stint.
Actually I disagree. Marlena was weak while John was around. But when they killed off John, I thought Dee Hall got some of the best REAL material (none of that goofy stuff she always overgasps) in years and did a pretty good job with it.
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Mason
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King
Jul 20 2008, 02:35 PM
Marlena was pretty weak during the rest of Hogan's stint.
Not really. She was awesome in the first 3 months of Hogan's run, too. She just wasn't there most of January through September.
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Tricky
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imo...its the writing, writing, writing first...second the alienation of larger fanbases by the wrong characters being paired up
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Steve Frame
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As I have said before when it boils down to it - it is the bad writing. Hogan Sheffer was a bad writer. Dena Higley is a bad writer. JER was a bad writer.

The only thing I will give JER credit for is that DOOL didn't seem like it wasn't Days. He was just boring and wrote the men too weak.

Under Sheffer I didn't even feel like I was watching Days at all. He gave the men their balls back but weakened the women something terrible. Plus he was boring.

Under Higley at first things seemed okay. Now the last time I tuned in the characters seem okay but the stories are so boring and everything seems pointless or without guidance or direction.

********************************

Yes Corday is interfering. I give it that, but as a long time viewer of soaps and long time reading interviews with writers they have been interfered with almost from the beginning. Irna Phillips was told by radio heads and network heads what she could and couldn't do. Gloria Monty is well known to have interfered with her writers. Allen Potter had that rep too.

P&G constantly told Harding Lemay stuff he couldn't do at AW or how he had to do stuff. In particular he had a big story planned for Michael Randolph when he aged him to make him gay. P&G said hell no. Did that stop Harding from switching gears and writing an equally good story. No it didn't. You would have never known watching it that it wasn't the story Harding had planned.

The writers today are one talent wonders. If they don't get their way and do what they want then they are just selfish enough to hold back and not write a good story because they didn't get to do what they wanted. What is sadder is that when they really deliver you know they can do it. They just refuse to do it.

I have no sympathy for them at all.
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Ellie


Steve Frame
Jul 21 2008, 12:35 AM
As I have said before when it boils down to it - it is the bad writing. Hogan Sheffer was a bad writer. Dena Higley is a bad writer. JER was a bad writer.

The only thing I will give JER credit for is that DOOL didn't seem like it wasn't Days. He was just boring and wrote the men too weak.

Under Sheffer I didn't even feel like I was watching Days at all. He gave the men their balls back but weakened the women something terrible. Plus he was boring.

Under Higley at first things seemed okay. Now the last time I tuned in the characters seem okay but the stories are so boring and everything seems pointless or without guidance or direction.

********************************

Yes Corday is interfering. I give it that, but as a long time viewer of soaps and long time reading interviews with writers they have been interfered with almost from the beginning. Irna Phillips was told by radio heads and network heads what she could and couldn't do. Gloria Monty is well known to have interfered with her writers. Allen Potter had that rep too.

P&G constantly told Harding Lemay stuff he couldn't do at AW or how he had to do stuff. In particular he had a big story planned for Michael Randolph when he aged him to make him gay. P&G said hell no. Did that stop Harding from switching gears and writing an equally good story. No it didn't. You would have never known watching it that it wasn't the story Harding had planned.

The writers today are one talent wonders. If they don't get their way and do what they want then they are just selfish enough to hold back and not write a good story because they didn't get to do what they wanted. What is sadder is that when they really deliver you know they can do it. They just refuse to do it.

I have no sympathy for them at all.
I agree with most of what you're saying in this post, but when have we ever seen Higley deliver? Or are you not talking about her in that paragraph?
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

I agree that interference has always been a problem but it's never been this bad. The good news is some seem to be getting the message. Ron seems to be able to get mostly free reign at OLTL. Pratt looks like he will to start at AMC. Maybe this is because Frons is only concerned with GH right now and their ratings issues but it's nice to see because if what Pratt says comes to pass and his said "vision" falls in line with what is onscreen for the first few months of his tenure, then I will know he is getting enough room to do what he has to do. That doesn't mean he won't suck but I always say what a writer do his job and step in when you feel the show and it's characters are being done a disservice.

I'm very curious to see what MAB and Hogan will do at Y&R because it's my hope they are left alone to do their thing together on their own for a bit. Let them create their vision and, after a time, then step in if needed.

It's one thing to interfere but to gut pretty much everything a writer puts out there is completely different. Hogan's first 3 months had little interference. They weren't perfect but his vision was getting out there. After that, all of his stuff either got tossed out or dragged out much longer then expected which destroyed it and made it a mess. Add to that the fact that he was told he couldn't use certain characters (primarily the vets) and you have a mess of a situation. I'm not proclaiming Hogan a God. He wasn't perfect but this wasn't just interference. His stuff was gutted. That, to me, is the issue.

I feel the same about JER. His stuff was gutted horribly. The only reason why I don't defend him as passionately is because I hated his writing staff and I feel he was burned out and even the stuff that was true to his vision wasn't very good.

As for Higley, I think she is getting interfered with but not as much as others because she falls in line with Corday. She's a "Corday soldier" if you will. I think he pushed Stax on her and also the autism story (along with NBC) and I think both him and her were hesitant to commit to certain directions in stories in May and June but I do sense those issues being ironed out now so that is a plus.
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Steve Frame
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Ellie, Higley has had a few great stories both on OLTL and in the first few months back at Days. So I know she can deliver when she needs too.

The sad thing is that I just IN MY PERSONAL OPINION I don't feel that Hogan or Higley were or are interfered with as much as we would like to believe they were. Higley is now writing just like she did when she was on Days before and her full tenure at OLTL. The things about Hogan's tenure at Days are the same things he did at ATWT when he didn't have a strong co-headwriter working along with him. Hogan only works when there is someone strong there guiding him along.

I hope again that helps him at Y&R as it did when he first came on to ATWT. After he lost his strong support at ATWT he fell apart there too.

Dena is a lot like Megan McTavish she seems to start out strong and then fade. When Dena first went to OLTL she turned the show around and did a wonderful job and then it fell apart with a few bright spots here and there. She did that so far at Days. The first months I thought again she was going to do a great job and then it fell apart again.
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Ellie


Thanks Steve. I understand what you're saying now. I agree, I think she does have some good ideas but doesn't know how to properly execute them. I think it's a pattern throughout Higley's tenure on a show: her ideas fall apart as her "storylines" progress. For example on Days, even some of her more recent storylines (like Kayla's premature baby) - that could be storyline gold. It started out strong, with a good promo and some 'buzz'. But then after a week or two, Steve, Kayla and their baby were hardly seen. Ditto Bo's illness, Hope's rejoining the police force, J&M's story, Chelsea's infertility... the list goes on and on. What people see at the beginning of Higley's tenure(s) are all of her good ideas coming out at once, all the "good beginnings" of her storylines on the show at the same time. So everything seems to be going well, and viewers do regain interest. But then everything goes downhill.

I completely agree with your second paragraph, and I've argued that viewpoint here as well. I attribute poor writing from these two to a lack of talent, not interference.

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☼ Jinx ☼
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Live. Love. Laugh. ♥

Whenver I watch DAYS, I'm normally posting here alongside. Before, most of my attention would be driven to the show instead of here, while nowdays, its the exact opposite.

Could Abe be any more boring?
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ElvisDiMera
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Not that Corday would not lie but outside of not allowing Hogan free access to some of the vets, supposedly Corday let Hogan tell the stories he wanted for the first six months on the job except for a few pre-determined dictations. The network inteferred a little - for example, they made Hogan drag out Tinda Lau a few more weeks so it could climax during sweeps (why in the world I don't know because it's not like it was a ratings draw or a hit with fans).

I have the feeling that Higley was allowed to tell her stories since she started headwriting too except for a few dictations from Corday/Scott. I think the dictations are stuff like who the couples are that should be written for like Stax, Jarlena, EJami, etc...

I think that is the problem is that the writers don't want to be told who to pair up or to write for and then half ass it and it shows on screen. Instead of punishing the fans, these people should just quit and spare the fans the misery. If you don't want to write with constraints then go be a novelist - don't write for TV because with millions of dollars involved it's a given there will be a ton of people trying to stick their finger in the pie and have their say.

Soap headwriting is tough but people have been doing it successfully for years with all the same constraints. Budgeting, contracts, networks, executive producers, actor schedules - none of this is new. If you can't handle it - DON'T TAKE THE JOB!!!
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SpriteEyes
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Mason
Jul 17 2008, 06:21 PM
Rakesh198
Jul 17 2008, 06:18 PM
DOOL still suck.
Yep. I'm hoping that seeing DAYS in second to last place again will be the wake up call that Corday needs to finally get rid of the hack. But knowing him the way I do, I'm not too optimistic.
I don't think it'll be a wake up call for Corday, Dena isn't the first fired writer he's hired, I think it'll be a wake-up call to NBC to shut her down. :(
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