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Dena Higley QUITS — SUDS REPORT EXCLUSIVE; Breaking News — TVGC; ATWT actor FIRED
Topic Started: Jul 26 2008, 06:10 PM (133,362 Views)
PhoenixRising05
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Tammy
Jul 30 2008, 01:38 AM
You know reading all this drama that happened in the past few days, and these more resent posts of backstage gossip from the past, has really made me miss the days of old before I got online and found out about soap message boards.

I don't mean this as an kind of slam or anything. I am just saying that I truly miss the days where I could look at the clock, watch it strike 1 p.m., and say "Hot damn... my shows are on!". I remember dropping what I was doing and heading right for the tv. Hell I used to skip school so I could watch my shows before I had a VCR lol.

It just makes me realize that, when I found soap message boards, I lost my love of my shows. Before I came online... I honestly didn't give a rats ass if the storyline was stupid or dragged on for weeks, or if the dialogue didn't make a lick of sense. I watched regardless. And now, I can read spoilers telling me whats going to happen weeks from now... or I can read about all the stupid petty shit that goes on behind the scenes... well now I see what has sucked my love of soaps right out of me.

Okay rant over lmao... I just got all nostalgic for a minute lmao ;)
I agree, Tammy.

I came to that same conclusion several years ago, which is maybe why I'm always positive all the time. I think sometimes it's better not to know anything and just sit there and watch. Sure, you still notice things and notice when things aren't so good but I do think message boards have had a major impact on how we view things, which is why I try to keep things separate and just watch the shows.
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Steve Frame
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PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:29 AM
Steve, there is no way the fanbases would accept that. Yes, general fans would. There is no way the fanbases would. They have a hard time if their couple isn't in spoilers for one week. I can't imagine the reaction there would be to even a gradual process of passing the torch.

As I said, back then if it was done how you suggested, it would've worked. Days's fan landscape is based mostly on these supercouple fanbases and they will never let it happen and Days is to blame for that. They kept it going for so long and now they are out of ideas but can't backburner the characters without backlash so the result is the same stuff over and over again with a different spin on it.
But the key that would make it work is that if there had been spoilers back then you would have never missed any of the big couples. They were always on too.

It is weird that back then they had the same # of characters or more than the shows have today but they were able to feature them much better than the shows do today.

At no time that Mike & David with Trish and gang were featured did Doug/Julie or any of them hit the backburner.

In 1978 to 1979 in particular you had all this going on those years:

Mickey & Maggie adopting Janice; her mother returns and takes her.
Maggie's alcoholism
Julie's getting burned and pushing Doug away
Doug learns about his brother; finds Lee and they fall in love.
Mike & Margo dealing with Margo's cancer
Bill and Kate's affair. Laura ending up going crazy (closer to 1980).
Chris & Mary's love story was featured heavily.
Stephanie Woodruff comes to town. She was really Brooke. She tried to take over Anderson Manufacturing.
Samantha had come to town and tried to take over Marlena's life.
Don found his daughter, Donna, and she had tried to break up Don & Marlena.
Donna had the affair with Neil's nephew Pete (I think was his name)
Neil's affair with Linda Anderson while she was married to Bob
David & Trish's marriage falling apart
I think during this time too Chris Kositchek had the affair with Amanda Peters and had ended her married to Greg.
Alex Marshall had come to town too and he got close to Mary so that he could take over Anderson Man. too.

There were so many stories going on and all the key players had stories in that time frame and never were backburnered. The stories were just scattered out more and climaxed at different points. Or if they overlapped they climaxed together.

What is sadder is that the staff's were smaller as far as writing at this time, but they had more going on.

You can't try to pass the torch by completely ignoring the other characters. And you can't backburner half the cast either. Back then the torch was passed but you didn't know it really.
Edited by Steve Frame, Jul 30 2008, 01:58 AM.
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Tricky
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PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:42 AM
Jiggs
Jul 30 2008, 01:36 AM
Kevc1980
Jul 30 2008, 12:20 AM
But Jiggs, you should read some of his blogs..The guy is very passionate about Days and about the soap genre..And he actually takes time for chat sessions...He's a really cool guy...And a talented script writer..But i do think the head writer position would probably be too much for him to take on..i just wish he hadn't have been screwed over by the writers strike for Dena Higley and her team..
I've read his blog, and listened to his radio interviews. I'm not saying he's not passionate about soaps or doesn't have some good ideas and opinions, I just don't think I would like him as the head writer of Days. He strikes me as being somewhat similar to Higley in that he's interested in telling stories that he's interested in, but nobody else is. (Thank you Erika Slezak).
See, that has always bothered me.

Everyone has different interests so what is interesting to you or to one group may not be to another. That is the problem at Days right now. Too many fans wanting too many different things. That just adds to the problems because when the show does try to listen to fans, they find a bunch of different answers to what they should do. I think that plays into Corday's reactions all the time. He reacts to whatever fan group is upset and then that reaction pisses off another fan group so he reacts to that and so on. It's endless.

Not everyone will always be happy. No matter who has wrote Days in the past decade it always seems like more then half the audience is unhappy no matter what.
i see that as well, the powers that be try to listen to the fans and are pulled in twenty different directions...there should be an easy way with the internet to find out in conflicting situations what direction to go by judging as accurately as possible how many fans want option a, how many want option b, then majority rule, like a democratic society...i mean they get approval ratings on everything under the sun, the products we buy, the leaders we choose, why not the shows we watch is what i wonder about...
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Y&RWorldTurner
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Sharongate, bitches!

Steve Frame
Jul 30 2008, 01:35 AM
You mentioned both AMC and Y&R not doing it. I felt too that GL tried to keep some of it's own identity in the early 80's esp. No one had the stories that Marland was doing then. Of course he had stolen Jane Elliot, but the story was so different. And his Nola story was so different than any thing. I still love to remember her fantasies.
The irony of it all was Douglas Marland recommended Pat Falken Smith to take over his post at GL when he was ready to leave (due to differences with Allen Potter). Smith only lasted 13 weeks at GL, and I hear her brief stint was a huge disaster.

I think part of the reason Y&R and AMC stayed safe was because Bill Bell and Agnes Nixon knew what Monty was doing was something that had very short-term impact and would not benefit their shows in the long-run. Plot heavy stories and action-adventure tales when done right are good for immediate impact, but if you're trying to craft a soap with historical roots, it does them no good.

I think that's why today the Bell soaps do not have those insane rabbid fanbases who dictate stories and tune away when their favorite couple is off or something.

That said, I think Pam Long at GL knew how to combine the super-couple effect of GH/DAYS and ground it with more traditional soap opera elements that made GL the best of both worlds for a time in the 80's.
Edited by Y&RWorldTurner, Jul 30 2008, 01:49 AM.
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Jiggs
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PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:29 AM
Steve, there is no way the fanbases would accept that. Yes, general fans would. There is no way the fanbases would. They have a hard time if their couple isn't in spoilers for one week. I can't imagine the reaction there would be to even a gradual process of passing the torch.

As I said, back then if it was done how you suggested, it would've worked. Days's fan landscape is based mostly on these supercouple fanbases and they will never let it happen and Days is to blame for that. They kept it going for so long and now they are out of ideas but can't backburner the characters without backlash so the result is the same stuff over and over again with a different spin on it.
Personally I think the general fans of Days are made up of fanbases, and supercouple fans. The problem with soaps now is that they are trying to turn soaps into shows full of random characters that switch partners at the drop of a hat, with no build up and no romance. There is a reason Days brags about its supercouples to this day, and it's because they were the bread and butter of the soap in its heyday... sadly they can't find any writers who know how to write for them anymore. And so they stumble trying to create new supercouples with predestined anointing, and it fails.

I think it's a mistake to blame supercouple fans for the downfall of soaps. It's the writers and producers who have this notion that you can't write for a couple once they are married because that automatically means they are boring. Yet it works on prime time. They lack the creative skills that most fans have.

But, that's a whole other topic :wink:
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Shylock


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Today they don't. That is the reason I keep coming back to people using the interference excuse as to why these writers can't write. Of course even though JER was interfered with he isn't given any slack, but Hogan is. But that is another story.

Both fall into the same category. They were too petty and lacked the talent to write anything but what they wanted to write. My guess is that with them and with Higley and others it is not that they really don't have the talent - they are just like the child playing baseball and if it is not done his way by his friends then he is going to take his ball and go home.

JER, Higley and Hogan (if they truly were interfered with) were like that child - well if I can't write what I want this is what you are going to get out of me that that is all. I'll hold back my talent and go home.

If I'm not mistaken, the tl;dr version of this is: "Writers should bend to the will of the executives and write what they're told and if they're talented, then they'll do a really good job within those limitations imposed on them. It worked in the soaps of yesteryear, that's why they were successful."

Is that what it basically is? Because I disagree with that, for the most part. I seems to me that the major difference between yesteryear and the specific producers/execs that are screwing things up today (ie. Corday) is that those people back then knew how to DELEGATE. Today, at least from the perspective I see, they seem to micromanage and try to control everything. I don't think any of us are expecting the job to lack interference of higher ups. Not at all. It's the amount of interference and how heavy handed it can be.

Example: Tom Casiello had talked about it on that one interview a while back regarding the whole Vendetta storyline. They were going to wrap it up quicker than it ended up being and the content seemed to make more sense than what they wound up doing. The reason why they were forced to extend the storyline by about two weeks over what it was originally was because some exec was lurking the NBC forums and they were all abuzz about the Vendetta storyline, so they wanted it to be extended. And thus, the lame clusterfuck of "Vets reading a stupid boring story" came about.

That kind of shit needs to stop. It stifles creativity and hinders the quality of what the people are writing.

And the difference between Reilly and Sheffer is that while I can understand someone telling Reilly "Dude, why are you bringing Wayne Northrop in as Alex North with him having been married to Marlena when that'll fuck up the history of the show? Why are you such a dipshit?" Whereas I think it's bullshit that someone tells Sheffer to compromise his story with the Vendetta (where Santo would get killed thanks to Pete Brady, Colleen winds up pregnant and faking her death, etc, Stefano vows revenge) when it's utterly superior to what actually came of it. On the flipside, if Sheffer really didn't like writing for the older, more popular and established crowd (Bo, Hope, John, Marlena) and the rumor about Corday handcuffing him and taking those vets away isn't true, then that's where there should be interference from a higher up. "Ok, what's this shit? John and Marlena are probably the core couple of the show and you're not giving them anything, what's with that?" would be perfectly alright with me. (no, I'm not a J&M fan really, I'm using them as an example)

It's hard to maintain morale and quality when any creative momentum gets squashed by some dip in a suit who probably wouldn't know what creativity was if it spit in his face and went home to fuck his wife.

tl;dr version: Some interference is good, some is bad. Mostly the people who run shows today, specifically Corday since Days got into such bad shape so fast under his watch, don't know how to successfully distinguish between when to exert their influence and when not to. They should know how to delegate responsibilities to the writers, directors, etc. They need to work with the writers instead of against.
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PhoenixRising05
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Tricky
Jul 30 2008, 01:48 AM
PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:42 AM
Jiggs
Jul 30 2008, 01:36 AM
Kevc1980
Jul 30 2008, 12:20 AM
But Jiggs, you should read some of his blogs..The guy is very passionate about Days and about the soap genre..And he actually takes time for chat sessions...He's a really cool guy...And a talented script writer..But i do think the head writer position would probably be too much for him to take on..i just wish he hadn't have been screwed over by the writers strike for Dena Higley and her team..
I've read his blog, and listened to his radio interviews. I'm not saying he's not passionate about soaps or doesn't have some good ideas and opinions, I just don't think I would like him as the head writer of Days. He strikes me as being somewhat similar to Higley in that he's interested in telling stories that he's interested in, but nobody else is. (Thank you Erika Slezak).
See, that has always bothered me.

Everyone has different interests so what is interesting to you or to one group may not be to another. That is the problem at Days right now. Too many fans wanting too many different things. That just adds to the problems because when the show does try to listen to fans, they find a bunch of different answers to what they should do. I think that plays into Corday's reactions all the time. He reacts to whatever fan group is upset and then that reaction pisses off another fan group so he reacts to that and so on. It's endless.

Not everyone will always be happy. No matter who has wrote Days in the past decade it always seems like more then half the audience is unhappy no matter what.
i see that as well, the powers that be try to listen to the fans and are pulled in twenty different directions...there should be an easy way with the internet to find out in conflicting situations what direction to go by judging as accurately as possible how many fans want option a, how many want option b, then majority rule, like a democratic society...i mean they get approval ratings on everything under the sun, the products we buy, the leaders we choose, why not the shows we watch is what i wonder about...
It's not that easy.

Just go over to the Sony boards or NBC. There is just so much division. It's not clear cut at all.

You have people who want the show to be character driven and some that want plot or a bit of both. Then you have people who want Gothic storytelling or supernatural or campy or realistic or romantic adventures.

Then you have the fanbases, some that war with each other and change their minds at times concerning what they want.

It's a mess and Days helped to create it. It continued to push the supercouples and the wild, over the top adventures of the 80's when other soaps at least tried or actually did snap out of that cycle. Days then had so many different writers that it led to so many different fans wanting different things and now we have the mess we have today.
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Tammy
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Steve Frame
Jul 30 2008, 01:47 AM
PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:29 AM
Steve, there is no way the fanbases would accept that. Yes, general fans would. There is no way the fanbases would. They have a hard time if their couple isn't in spoilers for one week. I can't imagine the reaction there would be to even a gradual process of passing the torch.

As I said, back then if it was done how you suggested, it would've worked. Days's fan landscape is based mostly on these supercouple fanbases and they will never let it happen and Days is to blame for that. They kept it going for so long and now they are out of ideas but can't backburner the characters without backlash so the result is the same stuff over and over again with a different spin on it.
But the key that would make it work is that if there had been spoilers back then you would have never missed any of the big couples. They were always on too.

It is weird that back then they had the same # of characters or more than the shows have today but they were able to feature them much better than the shows do today.

At no time that Mike & David with Trish and gang were featured did Doug/Julie or any of them hit the backburner.

In 1978 to 1979 in particular you had all this going on those years:

Mickey & Maggie adopting Janice; her mother returns and takes her.
Maggie's alcoholism
Julie's getting burned and pushing Doug away
Doug learns about his brother; finds Lee and they fall in love.
Mike & Margo dealing with Margo's cancer
Bill and Kate's affair. Laura ending up going crazy (closer to 1980).
Chris & Mary's love story was featured heavily.
Stephanie Woodruff comes to town. She was really Brooke. She tried to take over Anderson Manufacturing.
Samantha had come to town and tried to take over Marlena's life.
Don found his daughter, Donna, and she had tried to break up Don & Marlena.
Donna had the affair with Neil's nephew Pete (I think was his name)
Neil's affair with Linda Anderson while she was married to Bob
David & Trish's marriage falling apart
I think during this time too Chris Kositchek had the affair with Amanda Peters and had ended her married to Greg.
Alex Marshall had come to town too and he got close to Mary so that he could take over Anderson Man. too.

There were so many stories going on and all the key players had stories in that time frame and never were backburnered. The stories were just scattered out more and climaxed at different points. Or if they overlapped they climaxed together.

What is sadder is that the staff's were smaller as far as writing at this time, but they had more going on.

You can't try to pass the torch by completely ignoring the other characters. And you can't backburner half the cast either. Back then the torch was passed but you didn't know it really.
I have to say I love the way you put things into perspective. ;)
Edited by Steve Frame, Jul 30 2008, 02:00 AM.
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PhoenixRising05
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Jiggs
Jul 30 2008, 01:49 AM
PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:29 AM
Steve, there is no way the fanbases would accept that. Yes, general fans would. There is no way the fanbases would. They have a hard time if their couple isn't in spoilers for one week. I can't imagine the reaction there would be to even a gradual process of passing the torch.

As I said, back then if it was done how you suggested, it would've worked. Days's fan landscape is based mostly on these supercouple fanbases and they will never let it happen and Days is to blame for that. They kept it going for so long and now they are out of ideas but can't backburner the characters without backlash so the result is the same stuff over and over again with a different spin on it.
Personally I think the general fans of Days are made up of fanbases, and supercouple fans. The problem with soaps now is that they are trying to turn soaps into shows full of random characters that switch partners at the drop of a hat, with no build up and no romance. There is a reason Days brags about its supercouples to this day, and it's because they were the bread and butter of the soap in its heyday... sadly they can't find any writers who know how to write for them anymore. And so they stumble trying to create new supercouples with predestined anointing, and it fails.

I think it's a mistake to blame supercouple fans for the downfall of soaps. It's the writers and producers who have this notion that you can't write for a couple once they are married because that automatically means they are boring. Yet it works on prime time. They lack the creative skills that most fans have.

But, that's a whole other topic :wink:
I'm not saying all supercouple fans are as some are sensible and very rational. But you do have rabid ones out there and they are one a major contributing factor to the fall of soaps, especially Days.

Seriously, I want to know what can be done with some of these couples that hasn't. Romantic adventures? Check. Digging into the past? Check. Affairs? Check. Baby switches? Check. Countless presumed deaths, kidnappings, and rescues? Check.

I don't know what else you can do without Days doing something that is seen as "been there, done that." The only thing that can be done is taking things and putting new spins on the,. This is daytime drama and eventually characters have to move to the background. It's not primetime where the shows last a certain time and bow out. These shows have lasted more then 40 years most of them. Characters are going to reach a point where you have to start moving from to supporting and let the next generation take over. Otherwise, it's just going around in circles and trying to re-create the past and that is not good storytelling. That's just taking stuff already done, adding things and changing it a bit, and throwing it onscreen.
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Gregorzick


PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:29 AM
Steve, there is no way the fanbases would accept that. Yes, general fans would. There is no way the fanbases would. They have a hard time if their couple isn't in spoilers for one week. I can't imagine the reaction there would be to even a gradual process of passing the torch.

As I said, back then if it was done how you suggested, it would've worked. Days's fan landscape is based mostly on these supercouple fanbases and they will never let it happen and Days is to blame for that. They kept it going for so long and now they are out of ideas but can't backburner the characters without backlash so the result is the same stuff over and over again with a different spin on it.
If such is the case, then DAYS needs to be cancelled!!! Period. End Of Story. Characters like John. Marlena, and Stefano are over exposed and have run out of steam. Irna Phillips felt that when a soap starts to lack any kind of logic, then the time has come to cancel the show despite the ratings. She felt it was better to go out while a soap still some ratings at and/or near the top. Hell, she cancelled one of her radio soaps because her mother died and the show in question had been inspired by her mother's life.

If DAYS OF OUR LIVES can't cut it's losses with some of it's supercouples in order to grow a larger audience then NBC should cancel the show and stay the hell out of the soap opera business for a very long time.
Edited by Gregorzick, Jul 30 2008, 02:04 AM.
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PhoenixRising05
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I see your point but cancellation to me is lazy and just giving up. It's easy to give up.

To me, Days is already in the 1.0's so it has nothing to lose. Just pass the torch the way Steve is saying. Start it now. Fanbases are already pissed. Maybe you can get some new fans. Who knows. Days is already in a mess. It already pissed off enough fans so why not go for it? That is the problem. Soaps today don't take risks. Days took one last year by killing John and then bailed on it because they don't have the guts to ever commit to solid change. They are too afraid of going against the norm, which was established in the 80's. It's time they do. Shows need to evolve and change, just like technology and other things. Otherwise, your just stuck in the past and left behind.
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Steve Frame
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Tammy
Jul 30 2008, 01:51 AM
Steve Frame
Jul 30 2008, 01:47 AM
PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:29 AM
Steve, there is no way the fanbases would accept that. Yes, general fans would. There is no way the fanbases would. They have a hard time if their couple isn't in spoilers for one week. I can't imagine the reaction there would be to even a gradual process of passing the torch.

As I said, back then if it was done how you suggested, it would've worked. Days's fan landscape is based mostly on these supercouple fanbases and they will never let it happen and Days is to blame for that. They kept it going for so long and now they are out of ideas but can't backburner the characters without backlash so the result is the same stuff over and over again with a different spin on it.
But the key that would make it work is that if there had been spoilers back then you would have never missed any of the big couples. They were always on too.

It is weird that back then they had the same # of characters or more than the shows have today but they were able to feature them much better than the shows do today.

At no time that Mike & David with Trish and gang were featured did Doug/Julie or any of them hit the backburner.

In 1978 to 1979 in particular you had all this going on those years:

Mickey & Maggie adopting Janice; her mother returns and takes her.
Maggie's alcoholism
Julie's getting burned and pushing Doug away
Doug learns about his brother; finds Lee and they fall in love.
Mike & Margo dealing with Margo's cancer
Bill and Kate's affair. Laura ending up going crazy (closer to 1980).
Chris & Mary's love story was featured heavily.
Stephanie Woodruff comes to town. She was really Brooke. She tried to take over Anderson Manufacturing.
Samantha had come to town and tried to take over Marlena's life.
Don found his daughter, Donna, and she had tried to break up Don & Marlena.
Donna had the affair with Neil's nephew Pete (I think was his name)
Neil's affair with Linda Anderson while she was married to Bob
David & Trish's marriage falling apart
I think during this time too Chris Kositchek had the affair with Amanda Peters and had ended her married to Greg.
Alex Marshall had come to town too and he got close to Mary so that he could take over Anderson Man. too.

There were so many stories going on and all the key players had stories in that time frame and never were backburnered. The stories were just scattered out more and climaxed at different points. Or if they overlapped they climaxed together.

What is sadder is that the staff's were smaller as far as writing at this time, but they had more going on.

You can't try to pass the torch by completely ignoring the other characters. And you can't backburner half the cast either. Back then the torch was passed but you didn't know it really.
I have to say I love the way you put things into perspective. ;)
Thanks

Going back over all that makes me nostalgic for that time period so much.

Just thinking about all that went on during that time frame and how great it was almost makes me want to cry.
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Tammy
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In all honesty, if a person can't write someone to be in character, while in the middle of a well rounded, and thought out plot. Then they honestly have no buisness writing.

These people should have learned in middle school the 5 basics elemets of writting a story: The Plot, The Characters, The Setting, The Conflict, The Theme. I honestly think more people, including fanbases, would be happy if these writers could grasp these basic facts and combine them at the same time.

JMO ;)
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Steve Frame
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I agree with what Gregorzick is saying.

And when you factor in what Jane said, then Days has no chance - so why not get rid of it now.

If fans don't want to watch a show with a lower budget that doesn't look that good then why keep trying. The budgets aren't going to go up. So why try.

I know there are a new breed of fans out there. But it will come a time when fans have to say esp. fans of a couple or whatever is which do they want the show or the couple or whatever.

One has got to go. As the budgets drop the salaries can't be met. Fans as Jane said want the elaborate. So to me soaps have no chance esp. ones that keep getting their budgets cut and are lower rated.

I know that some of what Jane says is true. I just hope that it is not as wide as she made it sound.

I think it is proven by the number of fans that still turn into The Price Is Right with it's still older look and all. I think when they modernize it they will finally put the nail in it that many predicted this year would bring.

People want the familiar more than anything. They want characters they care about. They want good stories. They want excitement. They want cliffhangers. I think soaps would still have a chance if they gave them that. I think there are other ways they can push the envelope too without being as elaborate as some want them to be. None of the HBO and Showtime shows seems to have big elaborate sets and they seem to always be popular. Queer as Folk definitely didn't have great elaborate sets. Neither did Oz and they were both very successful.
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koos


Would people REALLY be that upset if the style of the show completely changed into a realistic, subdued, subtle program? There's plenty of talk about fanbases floving their supercouples and wacky stunts, but a lot of people *don't* like that. I'm willing to bet that, for as many fans of the sensationalistic Days they lose, they'd gain in viewers who appreciate down-to-earth, well-crafted stories. Many of those viewers tuned out when it turned into bad sci-fi/horror, but it wasn't so drastic that it was a disaster. I mean, it WAS a disaster, but it simply picked up a new viewing audience. I don't understand why the fallout has to be so horrible now, when the reverse wasn't true. If Days turned into Y&R, hypothetically, and *old* Y&R at that, don't you think it would attract a lot of viewers? Sure, they'd lose the rabid JER-style fans, but obviously, the fanbase for THAT type of show is miniscule (see Passions' ratings from its last years on NBC, for example). I don't believe the malarkey that you never regain old viewers, just lose them, either.
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Steve Frame
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Tammy
Jul 30 2008, 02:06 AM
In all honesty, if a person can't write someone to be in character, while in the middle of a well rounded, and thought out plot. Then they honestly have no buisness writing.

These people should have learned in middle school the 5 basics elemets of writting a story: The Plot, The Characters, The Setting, The Conflict, The Theme. I honestly think more people, including fanbases, would be happy if these writers could grasp these basic facts and combine them at the same time.

JMO ;)
AMEN

Today they change the characters way too often. They change them to match the story instead of making the story work with the character.
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Tricky
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PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:51 AM
Tricky
Jul 30 2008, 01:48 AM
PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:42 AM
Jiggs
Jul 30 2008, 01:36 AM
Kevc1980
Jul 30 2008, 12:20 AM
But Jiggs, you should read some of his blogs..The guy is very passionate about Days and about the soap genre..And he actually takes time for chat sessions...He's a really cool guy...And a talented script writer..But i do think the head writer position would probably be too much for him to take on..i just wish he hadn't have been screwed over by the writers strike for Dena Higley and her team..
I've read his blog, and listened to his radio interviews. I'm not saying he's not passionate about soaps or doesn't have some good ideas and opinions, I just don't think I would like him as the head writer of Days. He strikes me as being somewhat similar to Higley in that he's interested in telling stories that he's interested in, but nobody else is. (Thank you Erika Slezak).
See, that has always bothered me.

Everyone has different interests so what is interesting to you or to one group may not be to another. That is the problem at Days right now. Too many fans wanting too many different things. That just adds to the problems because when the show does try to listen to fans, they find a bunch of different answers to what they should do. I think that plays into Corday's reactions all the time. He reacts to whatever fan group is upset and then that reaction pisses off another fan group so he reacts to that and so on. It's endless.

Not everyone will always be happy. No matter who has wrote Days in the past decade it always seems like more then half the audience is unhappy no matter what.
i see that as well, the powers that be try to listen to the fans and are pulled in twenty different directions...there should be an easy way with the internet to find out in conflicting situations what direction to go by judging as accurately as possible how many fans want option a, how many want option b, then majority rule, like a democratic society...i mean they get approval ratings on everything under the sun, the products we buy, the leaders we choose, why not the shows we watch is what i wonder about...
It's not that easy.

Just go over to the Sony boards or NBC. There is just so much division. It's not clear cut at all.

You have people who want the show to be character driven and some that want plot or a bit of both. Then you have people who want Gothic storytelling or supernatural or campy or realistic or romantic adventures.

Then you have the fanbases, some that war with each other and change their minds at times concerning what they want.

It's a mess and Days helped to create it. It continued to push the supercouples and the wild, over the top adventures of the 80's when other soaps at least tried or actually did snap out of that cycle. Days then had so many different writers that it led to so many different fans wanting different things and now we have the mess we have today.
i am not in disagreement with you, but i always considered supercouples the back bone of the show...the writing that builds them up, creates buzz, brings back those that had lost hope, creates new fans when the stuff hits the world wide web and if its hot enough between these couples people become fascinated with seeing this couple make it when so many real life relationships just disappoint...thats just my p.o.v. think of the fans created by say john and marlena all those years ago when they were being built up as a supercouple cornerstone of the show...those fans created then want that kind of story again, that kind of building another couple to watch again, it provides them with nostaglia over when years ago they watched the same process with jarlena...and meanwhile fans of the supercouples (jarlena, stayla, bope, tanna, and others) still wait around for their couples to keep getting romance s/l but that would be viewing nirvana for me and so i wont ever get it... :soapbox:
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Jiggs
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PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:29 AM
I'm not saying all supercouple fans are as some are sensible and very rational. But you do have rabid ones out there and they are one a major contributing factor to the fall of soaps, especially Days.

Seriously, I want to know what can be done with some of these couples that hasn't. Romantic adventures? Check. Digging into the past? Check. Affairs? Check. Baby switches? Check. Countless presumed deaths, kidnappings, and rescues? Check.

I don't know what else you can do without Days doing something that is seen as "been there, done that." The only thing that can be done is taking things and putting new spins on the,. This is daytime drama and eventually characters have to move to the background. It's not primetime where the shows last a certain time and bow out. These shows have lasted more then 40 years most of them. Characters are going to reach a point where you have to start moving from to supporting and let the next generation take over. Otherwise, it's just going around in circles and trying to re-create the past and that is not good storytelling. That's just taking stuff already done, adding things and changing it a bit, and throwing it onscreen.


I don't see why you can't do both. Why you can't write intriguing stories for new characters and older characters. These people are suppose to be creative, talented writers, who get paid millions, and they can't come up with anything but triangles and amnesia stories, yet fans can come up with brilliant ideas that build on established history and keep couples interesting and new. I just can't blame the fans. It's the fact that the people in the soap biz are jaded, inept, and hateful of the fans and the genre itself.

Even though I think James Reilly has lost whatever talent he had, at least you knew that he loved the genre. I think the majority of producers and writers in daytime resent that they are stuck in daytime and their lack of love for it keeps them stuck in a rut where they think their only options are triangles, soap cliches and gimmicks and stunts. They don't know how to embrace the fact that they have a special medium where they can tell stories that you can't tell anywhere else. That you can truly create a character and play out their entire life on screen for years and years.
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Tammy
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Steve Frame
Jul 30 2008, 02:09 AM
Tammy
Jul 30 2008, 02:06 AM
In all honesty, if a person can't write someone to be in character, while in the middle of a well rounded, and thought out plot. Then they honestly have no buisness writing.

These people should have learned in middle school the 5 basics elemets of writting a story: The Plot, The Characters, The Setting, The Conflict, The Theme. I honestly think more people, including fanbases, would be happy if these writers could grasp these basic facts and combine them at the same time.

JMO ;)
AMEN

Today they change the characters way too often. They change them to match the story instead of making the story work with the character.
They really do. I have no doubt that their thinking is completely ass backwards.
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PhoenixRising05
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koos
Jul 30 2008, 02:09 AM
Would people REALLY be that upset if the style of the show completely changed into a realistic, subdued, subtle program? There's plenty of talk about fanbases floving their supercouples and wacky stunts, but a lot of people *don't* like that. I'm willing to bet that, for as many fans of the sensationalistic Days they lose, they'd gain in viewers who appreciate down-to-earth, well-crafted stories. Many of those viewers tuned out when it turned into bad sci-fi/horror, but it wasn't so drastic that it was a disaster. I mean, it WAS a disaster, but it simply picked up a new viewing audience. I don't understand why the fallout has to be so horrible now, when the reverse wasn't true. If Days turned into Y&R, hypothetically, and *old* Y&R at that, don't you think it would attract a lot of viewers? Sure, they'd lose the rabid JER-style fans, but obviously, the fanbase for THAT type of show is miniscule (see Passions' ratings from its last years on NBC, for example). I don't believe the malarkey that you never regain old viewers, just lose them, either.
See, I would try to push that.

That is why I liked about Hogan so much and I know others will disagree. This is especially toward the end of his run where he had a story with Shawn/Belle/Chloe/Philip that was so filled with emotion and it was all driven by the characters. I really feel like the show was coming together and becoming good, character-driven soap opera until Hogan and co were ousted.

I think there comes a time where you have to wonder is it worth it? You have to ask if you can ever please most of the fans you've been catering too and take a risk to see if you can go get new ones. That happened in the 90's. Days attracted new fans with JER's style, which is part of the problem now. Some want that style. I actually think Days may have gotten a better number of they left John dead. Yes, I'm enjoying him again but I do think it would've proved a point. That anyone can go or die (adding to the suspense that has been lost by all the resurrections) and that Days is serious about leaving the far out crap behind.

I think Days blew that chance now. I don't think it will ever be taken seriously and that is part of the problem. That makes it had to attract new fans.
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