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Dena Higley QUITS — SUDS REPORT EXCLUSIVE; Breaking News — TVGC; ATWT actor FIRED
Topic Started: Jul 26 2008, 06:10 PM (133,359 Views)
Manny
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cubsgirl
Jul 30 2008, 07:07 AM
Manny
Jul 30 2008, 06:54 AM
So wait.. Tom C. said that he and the rest of Hogan's team didn't GET J&M and THAT'S why they were backburnered? I thought Corday MADE them bakcburner them... Interesting.. I always suspected Hogan did it himself and he was not pushed into it by Corday...
Both are true, but are not both reason for the backburning. Corday told them to back burn the couple, but also the team didn't understand J&M as well. John was actually suppose to die back when EJ shot him. Then THAT was suppose to be the time that Marlena had her character growth that she had after the car accident. But Corday stopped it all when he said Hogan and the team had to back burn the vets. Which lead to Tinda Lao going on as long as it did because they needed to fill the air because it was suppose to be a C or D story. He also has said their team had the idea of killing John Black and bringing him back...but that would have been for at least a year.
Yeah, but still.. it was Hogan's decision as well.. :D

Thanks for the extra info, though! ;)
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ladyofthelake
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Jiggs
Jul 30 2008, 01:36 AM
Kevc1980
Jul 30 2008, 12:20 AM
But Jiggs, you should read some of his blogs..The guy is very passionate about Days and about the soap genre..And he actually takes time for chat sessions...He's a really cool guy...And a talented script writer..But i do think the head writer position would probably be too much for him to take on..i just wish he hadn't have been screwed over by the writers strike for Dena Higley and her team..
I've read his blog, and listened to his radio interviews. I'm not saying he's not passionate about soaps or doesn't have some good ideas and opinions, I just don't think I would like him as the head writer of Days. He strikes me as being somewhat similar to Higley in that he's interested in telling stories that he's interested in, but nobody else is. (Thank you Erika Slezak).
How do you know that? Once again, using the term "nobody" is one that insinuates everyone thinks like you. They don't. I, for one, agree with those who feel Tom's passion is a plus. There IS more to life than Marlena!
And, for the umpteenth time, I will once again give high KUDOS to Tim (Phoenix) and his remarks about the problems with fanbases. Ken Corday's penchance for wanting to cater to all of them has caused a lot of problems. And, then I'll hear someone post "He didn't cater to MINE", and that will prove my point, because he tries to make them all happy. Thus, anything good for any character doesn't last long, because then he has to try to make the other side happy.
I cannot lambast a writer simply because because he/she doesn't cater to my favorites. I would have quit when Marlena and Don Craig broke up. (wait, I DID! LOL. But not for that reason. Real life, no VCR, and realizing soaps are fictional did. I kept up with the newspaper, just enough).
So, I would have quit when they broke up Shimi. BUT, I saw other reasons to watch. Yeah, the writing for Shelligan's Island was pretty bad, but I always managed to find something good in the show. That's part and parcel of being a general fan who realizes that I can't always get my way in life.
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Ridge
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Ok, try to skim through the 165 pages...

So Higley is NOT and has NOT been writing DAYS? Ed Scott has? And he has given her the boot? Is that the big story?
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Steve Frame
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Sindacco
Jul 30 2008, 06:50 AM
Steve Frame
Jul 30 2008, 02:08 AM
I agree with what Gregorzick is saying.

And when you factor in what Jane said, then Days has no chance - so why not get rid of it now.

If fans don't want to watch a show with a lower budget that doesn't look that good then why keep trying. The budgets aren't going to go up. So why try.

I know there are a new breed of fans out there. But it will come a time when fans have to say esp. fans of a couple or whatever is which do they want the show or the couple or whatever.

One has got to go. As the budgets drop the salaries can't be met. Fans as Jane said want the elaborate. So to me soaps have no chance esp. ones that keep getting their budgets cut and are lower rated.

I know that some of what Jane says is true. I just hope that it is not as wide as she made it sound.

I think it is proven by the number of fans that still turn into The Price Is Right with it's still older look and all. I think when they modernize it they will finally put the nail in it that many predicted this year would bring.

People want the familiar more than anything. They want characters they care about. They want good stories. They want excitement. They want cliffhangers. I think soaps would still have a chance if they gave them that. I think there are other ways they can push the envelope too without being as elaborate as some want them to be. None of the HBO and Showtime shows seems to have big elaborate sets and they seem to always be popular. Queer as Folk definitely didn't have great elaborate sets. Neither did Oz and they were both very successful.
You can't compare Oz with Days. Oz was a show about prison, during their six seasons they had very little outdoor scenes, mostly in the prisoners crime flashbacks. But Days is supposed to take place in a whole town called Salem.
I can and I will compare any show I want to Days.

The concept is still the same - just as Oz's set is not that elaborate Days sets don't have to be either if you have the right story.

If what you and Jane are saying is true and the way it has to be then you might as well cancel Days now because it has no chance whatsoever if every one feels that way.

Days is not going to get a butt load of money overnight to upgrade the sets, put it in High Definition and make it look like some big elaborate well produced primetime show.

If that is what it has to have to survive then I say pull the plug now because there is no way in hell it is going to happen.

I am sure there are some fans out there that feel that way, but I can bet you 100% that they are mostly of the younger crowd who goes from one fad to the other. Older fans in their 30's and 40's don't give a rat's ass about any of those things. We watch for the story.

If they wanted all that stuff they sure in hell wouldn't watch it on a small screen on their computer or an Ipod. So I can't even say to all certaintly that all the younger viewers want what you are saying either. I think there are viewers out there that feel that way but they are not as widespread as you and Jane are saying.

If it was then soaps might as well quit because they are dead - doneso - with no hope of ever coming back. And I personally don't think all of them are. I think 4 of them are beyond repair and I do think Days is one of those. Sorry but I do. There has been way too much damage done to Days in the last few years by JER, Hogan and Higley along with Corday and Scott who each share just as much of the blame as the other one does - not one of them is innocent. Along with that the die hard fanbase fans share another portion as do NBC and Sony.

I think the other 3 are AMC, ATWT and GL - I think they have been hurt badly too. I think it is time for the shows to cut their losses and let the shows go out with a little touch of dignity left.
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ladyofthelake
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Jiggs
Jul 30 2008, 01:49 AM
Personally I think the general fans of Days are made up of fanbases, and supercouple fans.
And you base this on what? Message boards? You honestly think the Average Mrs. Joe Cool who records this show just to watch to put her feet up cares about fanbases and supercouples? I'll warrant at least 70% of the folks who watch Days don't even care about message boards.
Even if this is true, what about the fanbases that aren't made up of John and Marlena fans? the Jate fanbase, small as it probably is, still exists. They're not general fans? I can't stand Marlena or old John or that couple. So, I don't warrant a mention? Yes, I like Bo and Hope and Steve and Kayla, but you know, if the writing was good, I would have survived Bo and Billie or even Steve and Billie or Steve and Ava. Oh, yeah, and if there's a couple that's not thrown together just because.
What about Broe versus Phloe versus Phorgan? Two years ago, Shimi versus Shelle? Ejami versus Lumi? Where does it stop?
IF your assumption is true, also, that means catering to these fractured little groups caused the true general fans to leave more and more. MAYBE that's the problem with the ratings (if those can be an accurate measurement.)
But, then again,the problem with ratings is it takes into account a small percentage. SoapNet folks don't count. Non-Tivo DVR recording people like me don't count in the ratings. Regular DVR and VCR people don't count.
OK, I'm getting on my tangent again. I could post a book of disagreement on this, but I'd better stop.
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Sindacco
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Jiggs
Jul 30 2008, 02:13 AM
PhoenixRising05
Jul 30 2008, 01:29 AM
I'm not saying all supercouple fans are as some are sensible and very rational. But you do have rabid ones out there and they are one a major contributing factor to the fall of soaps, especially Days.

Seriously, I want to know what can be done with some of these couples that hasn't. Romantic adventures? Check. Digging into the past? Check. Affairs? Check. Baby switches? Check. Countless presumed deaths, kidnappings, and rescues? Check.

I don't know what else you can do without Days doing something that is seen as "been there, done that." The only thing that can be done is taking things and putting new spins on the,. This is daytime drama and eventually characters have to move to the background. It's not primetime where the shows last a certain time and bow out. These shows have lasted more then 40 years most of them. Characters are going to reach a point where you have to start moving from to supporting and let the next generation take over. Otherwise, it's just going around in circles and trying to re-create the past and that is not good storytelling. That's just taking stuff already done, adding things and changing it a bit, and throwing it onscreen.


I don't see why you can't do both. Why you can't write intriguing stories for new characters and older characters. These people are suppose to be creative, talented writers, who get paid millions, and they can't come up with anything but triangles and amnesia stories, yet fans can come up with brilliant ideas that build on established history and keep couples interesting and new. I just can't blame the fans. It's the fact that the people in the soap biz are jaded, inept, and hateful of the fans and the genre itself.

Even though I think James Reilly has lost whatever talent he had, at least you knew that he loved the genre. I think the majority of producers and writers in daytime resent that they are stuck in daytime and their lack of love for it keeps them stuck in a rut where they think their only options are triangles, soap cliches and gimmicks and stunts. They don't know how to embrace the fact that they have a special medium where they can tell stories that you can't tell anywhere else. That you can truly create a character and play out their entire life on screen for years and years.
There is a big difference between writing for an entire show to write a fanfic for your favorite couple. And in fanfics you don't have to think about budget, sets and stuff like that.

Also, the ones complaining the most about new characters are the supercouple fans. They also complain about new couples getting love/sex scenes when their couple don't. Of course new couple get more scenes like that, couples like J&M and Bope have had ALOT of love scenes through all these years, I think it's common sense that a new couple would get more kissing, dating and love scenes.
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Ponz
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e83talus
Jul 30 2008, 06:55 AM
Drew
Jul 30 2008, 06:44 AM
e83talus
Jul 30 2008, 06:29 AM
Tom C. said he and the other writers on Sheffer's team did not get J&M at first, which is why they were bb from August to October 06 and again from January to June of 07 and then used sparingly as literacy professionals reading those stupid letters all of Summer 07. He also indicated he thought John's character had become a "buffoon". So you will excuse us Marlena, Jarlena, and John fans who don't want this guy who came in with a blatant disrespect for a major fanbase and acted on it.

And yes he did write some of John's funeral scenes however that was one week of a year and a half stint. He did not claim to write Marlena in December so he will not get all of the credit for that either as there was indeed a team in place. He claims to be a fan of Days however any "fan" of the show would know who Bope and Jarlena are to the show. To reduce them to reading teachers to prop Ejami was insulting and they deserved the 1.8's that they got by August 2007.

As far as I am concerned there is good reason for J&M fans not to like him but you all make up your own minds.
you realize there's a difference between the head writers who dictate story direction, and the people just writing the scripts based on that, right?
I don't blame him for all of the storylines but he said Sheffers team did not get J&M. So I am basing my judgement as are other J&M fans on what he said. While he doesn't have to like J&M, to disregard the thousands of fans who did and berate the character of John, indicates a lack of respect to us fans. It would be similar to a new writer coming in and saying, I don't like Ejami so I am going to split them up. This would be a lack of respect to those that love and rooted for Ejami for two years. You don't have to like Ejami but you have to know there is a fan base out there that is yammering for them.
And there's a Lumi fanbase who've been waiting 15 years for their couple. Writers have to make tough decisions that will enrage several fanbases. This notion that fanbases deserve "respect" merely by virtue of their existence is the very mindset responsible for the directionless, clusterfuck triangles/quads of the past two years. A writer's only obligation is to tell good story. Writing to please everyone is a recipe for pleasing no one.
Edited by Ponz, Jul 30 2008, 07:28 AM.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Sindacco
Jul 30 2008, 05:28 AM
J&MROCKS
Jul 29 2008, 11:18 PM
Mason
Jul 29 2008, 10:34 PM
J&MROCKS
Jul 29 2008, 10:32 PM
Tammy
Jul 29 2008, 10:26 PM
OMG lmao... EVERYONE LISTEN! The remark about Deidre, Drake, PR and KA WAS NOT TRUE! Someone was using it as a example!
I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT, WHY WOULD SOMEBODY MAKE A EXAMPLE OUT OF IT AND USING THOSE 4 NAMES, SORRY I DON'T GET IT!!!
Trust me, I think it's a pretty safe bet that it's not really happening, LoL.
OK, I WILL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT AND TAMMY'S TOO!!!
I WAS HOPING IT WASN'T TRUE!!!
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Sindacco, I flippin' love that banner!
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Steve Frame
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People keep throwing up the budget - the biggest problem with all the soap opera budgets is not necessarily the amount of money they have but it is more to do with how they spend what money they have.

As I have said before, they could use less writers than they do. That would save them money.

They can cut back on the wardrobe. Let the actresses and actors wear outfits more than once. Do as they did in the 60's and 70's when it was reported that the costumers dressed the performers in clothes that the average housewife could afford to buy in her local stores in the mid-West.

They can better use the actors and actresses they have. Instead of using someone who has a 3 day guarantee more often than they are supposed to, but that person back to what they are paying them for.

Instead of paying actors for work like the vets and never using them - actually use them for what they are getting paid for. Some actors get paid for months and you don't even see them.

And stop bringing in people like Shirley Jones when you can get someone cheaper and promote the story and not the hiring of an actress or actor for way more than you can actually afford.

Those right there would save the shows alot of money.
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Kenny
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Jiggs
Jul 29 2008, 11:54 PM
I hope the same goes for Tom Casiello.
Unfortunately, that'll probably be the case.
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Kenny
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Mason
Jul 29 2008, 11:55 PM
Jiggs
Jul 29 2008, 11:54 PM
I hope the same goes for Tom Casiello.
Why? What did he do that was so terrible?
I think he mentioned in an interview once that Hogan's team didn't understand J&M or it took him a while to understand them or something... and with J&M fans, that's the bottom line. You don't understand J&M and you're a terrible writer, apparently, LoL.
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Kenny
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J&MROCKS
Jul 30 2008, 12:08 AM
Tom said he would get rid all the Vets and only have young ones on!!!!
Gigantic lie.
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FanODays


ladyofthelake
Jul 30 2008, 06:50 AM
Rakesh198
Jul 29 2008, 09:29 PM
ladyofthelake
Jul 29 2008, 08:30 PM
. And, of course, Reilly being gone might have brought a lot of fans back. That, and Sheffer's big name.
The ratings doesn't look that way...
I was talking about that interim time in 2006, not now. The ratings from summer 2006 til mid-winter 2007 were pretty good. People were excited about Reilly being gone. They were hyped about the big name writer coming on. They were willing to give the show another chance. THAT'S what I was talking about. 2.6 ratings in 2006 for DAys was pretty doggone good.
Also when a new writer comes on that often means that stories are wrapped up and in Reilly's case, seeing how he dragged everything out for so very long, that was more than welcome. If Reilly were still here, Patrick would still be lurking around, the gloved hand would still be messing up things, Mimi would still be talking to herself about telling Shawn he is Claire's father, etc. The best thing Hogan and the interium writers did was wrap it all up, hence the jump in ratings.
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e83talus
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The following is a quote from Tom C.'s goodbye letter to Days fans aftr he was fired in February:

I could probably launch into an essay about the inner workings of a television show... the secret cabals and the backalley strike deals that were made. I could potentially try and analyze the entire situation, try and find out how a writing team that started off the year doing strong, then ended up in LAST PLACE (due to dictates from the higher-ups), then somehow managed to come back and end the year in 4th place in Households and 1st place in the 18-34 demographic were all summarily kicked out at once. But this isn't about asking those questions, or trying to analyze what happened, or why we're not going home to Days again when the strike ends. That's not why I wanted to write this.

Instead, this is a sad goodbye to a town I grew up with. To Tony and Anna, characters I never dreamed would be on my screen again, much less saying the words I wrote. To LeAnn and Lauren Koslow, for letting me write the one and only Kate/Anna scene of 2007 - a story I hoped and prayed would be picked up at one point. And who knows - maybe it still will be? To Julie Pinson, who redefines supporting player, and SHOULD be a leading lady... and whom I always tried so hard to give more to. I'm sorry, Julie - you deserved better. To Bo and Hope, for letting me infuse them with a sense of humor again. and especially Kristian Alfonso, for collaborating with me on one of the most wonderful eulogies at John Black's funeral. To John and Marlena, two characters I struggled with, and were JUST figuring out and finally learning to love again weeks before the strike brought everything to a crashing halt. You taught me how to delve deeper, to see how complex you both were - and how you weren't cartoons at all, but truly detailed, layered characters. To Steve and Kayla, and especially my lovely Judi Luciano (who remembered me from when I was an INTERN at Another World nine years ago!!!), who I had the pleasure of writing for again as Adrienne - the Johnson family are personal favorites of mine. And to write Benjy's death broke my heart and brought tears to my eyes - and I wouldn't have had it any other way. To Nick and Chelsea and Max and Stephanie and Belle and Shawn - for teaching me how to write kids, how NOT to write kids, and especially to Brandon and Martha for letting me move them out of the world of "kids" and into adulthood. And to Sami, Lucas and EJ - three characters who went round and round, and always taught me something new about the power of temptation, redemption and love.

End Quote.

"You weren't cartoons at all."

I stand by my dislike of this clown!
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Ridge
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No one can divulge any info on what Nelson had to scoop?
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Steve Frame
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for me it wasn't that Hogan and team didn't just get John & Marlena but they didn't get half the characters.

There were a few characters they wrote fine but they didn't get Sami, they didn't get John & Marlena, they didn't get Lucas, they didn't get the EJ we knew and loved during the summer of 06, and on and on.

So many of the characters just changed under them and got so boring. Add to that many and I mean many of the stories were boring as well.
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Kenny
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Ponz
Jul 30 2008, 07:27 AM
And there's a Lumi fanbase who've been waiting 15 years for their couple. Writers have to make tough decisions that will enrage several fanbases. This notion that fanbases deserve "respect" merely by virtue of their existence is the very mindset responsible for the directionless, clusterfuck triangles/quads of the past two years. A writer's only obligation is to tell good story. Writing to please everyone is a recipe for pleasing no one.
AMEN!

There are too many fans of different couples pulling the writers in different directions, and because the writers seem to be so hellbent on taking the middle road with everything as a way of pleasing them all, the show has turned into a mediocre, directionless mess. I suppose it's like the popular saying: "You can't live 'em and you can't live without 'em." If Days didn't have its supercouple fans, the show would've been discontinued decades ago. Yet at the same time, those very fans cry that they want their couple on the frontburner and they want their couple in the spotlight. They claim that lack of their couple on the frontburner is the reason for low ratings, yet when their couple is on the frontburner and the ratings still suck, they manage some way to pass the blame off on some other couple or story.

There's nothing wrong with people having favorites, and hell... if people only wanna watch the show for one couple, character or actor, then that's their prerogative. They have that right. But one can't deny that their unwillingness to accept a new direction or a story that perhaps puts their couple in the line of fire has the writers between a rock and a hard place. I suppose that's not really the fault of the fans though -- it's the fault of the writers for being too scared to go full speed ahead with their vision, regardless of the uproar it may bring. Sometimes a great story with lots of fan uproar is just what the doctor ordered for ratings, as long as it's done well and the fans get their payoff in the end. Then again, so many Days writers are incapable of telling a great story to begin with, so they're not free of blame, either.
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Red Mist
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hmmmmmm...AS a former Lumi I can say no one wanted lumi till about 5 yrs ago. There was no lumi fan base till Higley started to move them together...until then it was you were either a Lucas fan or a Sami...Me always a Sami. And as for the romantic side of Sami...You either cheered her with Ausdumb or jeered her, while rooting for Carrie. Sami really did not come into her own till she had a real relationship with Brandon...And I much prefered Bradon over Lucas, just like now I prefer Ej with Sami over Lucas....And alot of former Lumi fans are now Ejami fans, and they are outraged now. They have tuned out the black out and it is easy to see the imapact of both Ejamis and J&MS...Ratings were great for DAYS...Them boom...What changed? Lucas returned recreating pod Sami...Suddenly Ej is fucking Nicole...Chloe stops fucking Phillip to Fuck Lucas...Stax takes over the show...Jawn and Mar end up apart, and Jawn starts fucking AVA...Every sl was suddenly shifted...Everything built was destroyed and crumbled. BED BAD WRITING is what is tanking DAYs, but my question is....Who is doing it? Is what I am seeing Higley's mess or the work of ED and PET?
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Kenny
Jul 30 2008, 07:59 AM
Ponz
Jul 30 2008, 07:27 AM
And there's a Lumi fanbase who've been waiting 15 years for their couple. Writers have to make tough decisions that will enrage several fanbases. This notion that fanbases deserve "respect" merely by virtue of their existence is the very mindset responsible for the directionless, clusterfuck triangles/quads of the past two years. A writer's only obligation is to tell good story. Writing to please everyone is a recipe for pleasing no one.
AMEN!

There are too many fans of different couples pulling the writers in different directions, and because the writers seem to be so hellbent on taking the middle road with everything as a way of pleasing them all, the show has turned into a mediocre, directionless mess. I suppose it's like the popular saying: "You can't live 'em and you can't live without 'em." If Days didn't have its supercouple fans, the show would've been discontinued decades ago. Yet at the same time, those very fans cry that they want their couple on the frontburner and they want their couple in the spotlight. They claim that lack of their couple on the frontburner is the reason for low ratings, yet when their couple is on the frontburner and the ratings still suck, they manage some way to pass the blame off on some other couple or story.

There's nothing wrong with people having favorites, and hell... if people only wanna watch the show for one couple, character or actor, then that's their prerogative. They have that right. But one can't deny that their unwillingness to accept a new direction or a story that perhaps puts their couple in the line of fire has the writers between a rock and a hard place. I suppose that's not really the fault of the fans though -- it's the fault of the writers for being too scared to go full speed ahead with their vision, regardless of the uproar it may bring. Sometimes a great story with lots of fan uproar is just what the doctor ordered for ratings, as long as it's done well and the fans get their payoff in the end. Then again, so many Days writers are incapable of telling a great story to begin with, so they're not free of blame, either.
I cannot tell you how it annoys me to hear people say that if they don't get the stories they will stop watching and then complain about the stories. I get being a fan and understand that some only watch for a couple or a character but by issuing these ultamitums they are straight jacketing the writers. I know I am guilty of wanting certain couples together, Bo and Hope and not wanting others, Sami and EJ, but at the end of the day, what I really want are good stories.

Days is responsible in a big way for the supercouple frenzy because when they found out the power of it, they over did it. Now they find themselves boxed in and while I understand that they are trying to respond to the fans they made the situation so they can't really bitch about it.
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LorrieOw
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ladyofthelake
Jul 30 2008, 07:24 AM
Jiggs
Jul 30 2008, 01:49 AM
Personally I think the general fans of Days are made up of fanbases, and supercouple fans.
And you base this on what? Message boards? You honestly think the Average Mrs. Joe Cool who records this show just to watch to put her feet up cares about fanbases and supercouples? I'll warrant at least 70% of the folks who watch Days don't even care about message boards.
Even if this is true, what about the fanbases that aren't made up of John and Marlena fans? the Jate fanbase, small as it probably is, still exists. They're not general fans? I can't stand Marlena or old John or that couple. So, I don't warrant a mention? Yes, I like Bo and Hope and Steve and Kayla, but you know, if the writing was good, I would have survived Bo and Billie or even Steve and Billie or Steve and Ava. Oh, yeah, and if there's a couple that's not thrown together just because.
What about Broe versus Phloe versus Phorgan? Two years ago, Shimi versus Shelle? Ejami versus Lumi? Where does it stop?
IF your assumption is true, also, that means catering to these fractured little groups caused the true general fans to leave more and more. MAYBE that's the problem with the ratings (if those can be an accurate measurement.)
But, then again,the problem with ratings is it takes into account a small percentage. SoapNet folks don't count. Non-Tivo DVR recording people like me don't count in the ratings. Regular DVR and VCR people don't count.
OK, I'm getting on my tangent again. I could post a book of disagreement on this, but I'd better stop.
I agree. I am a Days fan. Could care less about super couples, as long as the story is good, that is all tha matters to me. I have my characters that I love, still love to log into Youtube and watch old clips of my fav scenes. I just want a good story though. The main reason I am so gung ho for Lucas and Chloe, is I just want to see BD get to act for once, I'm sick of the same ole crap between Lucas and Sami. I pay for my DVR every month just to record Days, only reason. I pay extra for the tier that allows me to access soapnet, just in case my DVR messes up, so I can catc h any days episode I would have missed. As long as I have a good story to watch, I'm happy.
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