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Dena Higley QUITS ó SUDS REPORT EXCLUSIVE; Breaking News ó TVGC; ATWT actor FIRED
Topic Started: Jul 26 2008, 06:10 PM (113,718 Views)
brimike


PhoenixRising05
Aug 1 2008, 02:02 AM
Steve Frame
Jul 31 2008, 05:42 PM
This listening to the fans thing is what is the biggest thing wrong with soaps now.

Yes they do need to listen to fans to see what is working and what is not.

But in the end they need to have the brains enough to know they need to decided what is best for the show in the long run. They are now making way too many decisions by letting the fans hold the show hostage and changing things for them when they are not good for the show.

Irna Phillips listened to her fans and so did Irving Vendig and others, but they did not let them control the show.

When Irna killed off Kathy on GL in 1958, that was the first big fan outcry - millions of letters and phone calls stormed the studio in protest to bring her back or undo it somehow. Today a producer would change that but Irna and Lucy Ferri didn't. They addressed the situation that death happens in life and that it happens there too.

The same things happened when Sara Karr was killed on EON in the early 60's, and then the biggest outcry ever was when Jeff Baker was killed in a car crash on ATWT in 1962. That was termed by the newspapers - one of the first times that soap news was picked up by the mainstream press - they called it the car crash heard around the world or something to that affect.

Today the outcry would have caused those deaths to be undone - story rewritten and the like. But it didn't back then. They stood firm with the decision.

As Matt said many times fans think they know what they want and what is best for the show, but many fans have their own agenda at heart and not what is best for the show overall.
Bravo! :hail:

You hit the nail right on the head, Steve, with this post and your last post on the subject.

Fans are important. However, it should never EVER come to a point where fans CONTROL a show. The fans aren't paid to make decisions. The writers and producers are. The idea is to take feedback (and by this I mean rational feedback and not stuff from nut jobs like Terry and so on) and talk it over and determine what can be done in the best interest of the show based on the feedback as a whole. The results won't always be happy for some fans but that's life. It's happened alot. It's been happening on soaps and on any show for that matter for years.

For example (and I will use a Days one just for the hell of it), look at the Brady/Chloe/Philip triangle. Both pairings had major fanbases. Nearly ever poll had it at 50/50. No matter what Days did then they were pissing someone off. yes, JKJ leaving made it easier to choose a direction but you could tell they committed to Broe even before that. The writing was on the wall. They made a decision and stuck to their guns, despite some being pissed. It wasn't the end of the road. Look at what Days in the 90's. It made a decision to change it's storytelling style with JER and go for the supernatural, campy, Gothic stuff. It made many fans angry but they committed to it, despite it being detrimental in the long run. Again, in 2003, Days decided to take a risk on the SSK story. Sure, it flopped but for awhile they made a commitment to something and pissed off fans but...what happened? The ratings went up for months and it was when they started changing direction and chickening out that the show went downhill and turned to crap. I'm pleased we got those dead characters back but it's that shit that has messed with Days more then any other show.

What Days does is they look at feedback in letters, on boards, and what not and act on it. What happens then? Well, that action most of the time pisses off another group of fans and Days acts to rectify that and that reaction pisses off another group of fans and the cycle continues on and on. What Days needs to accept is you can't please every fan and what fans need to accept is sometimes what you want is not in the best interest of the show. The show needs to be more important then any one couple or character. Basically, the whole is greater then the sum of it's parts. That was the mentality for all soaps all the way up to around 2000 and the explosion of the message board age and rabid fanbases and so on.

Days needs to commit to things. No more backpedaling at a hint of fan dissension. They need to take risks like they have in the past. All soaps need to do this. Days and it's kneejerk reactions are the reason why the show has become a watered down mess and never has any consistency. Stick with a story and, even if it sucks, wait for it to end and don't forget it happened. Try to use some of it to further a better story or something. Too often Days will just drop a story as a reaction to fan upset and you don't hear of it again. That doesn't help at all.

It's simple.

1.) Analyze the show and feedback as a whole.
2.) Use feedback and discuss what is best for the show, making decisions on feedback in context of what is best for the show.
3.) Come up with story.
4.) Follow through on story COMPLETELY unless it is found offensive in some way or some unusual circumstance prevents you from doing so.
5.) if a story is a failure, see it through to the end and try to see if adjustments can be made to use aspects of the story to further something else. Don't just wipe it away like it never happened. That just makes it worse.

That is the way to go. The other issue is it's hard for Days to even gauge what the fans want when, like I said, any move they make ends up pissing other fans off and many fans change what direction they want the show to go in all the time. That is why it needs to understand that it can't please everyone and the issue is I think Corday wants too and that is a problem. Other soaps have it easy. Their fans just want quality stories featuring beloved characters. Many Days fans just want THEIR couple together and want the perfect story for THEIR couple or just want to see a certain character or actor every day or want one type of storytelling one day and then the next want something else and so on. It's not even about the show for some. Well, it's time that happens. It's time ALL fans start considering what is best for the show. Does that mean you have to forget about wanting what you want? Not at all. I just think everything needs to be looked at with the show's best interest at heart. I think fans need to voice their opinion in sensible ways (like the way opinions on this board are voiced) and in ways that come off like they want to help the show. Fans need to make it known it's not just about their own individual interests. It's not about their couple coming out on top of another fanbase's couple. It's about the show. If you feel your couple being together is in the best interest of the show, fine. Tell the show that. Make some points to them and explain why you feel that way and why you think the future is bright for the show with that couple being together. That is what I mean. It can't be "Put Ejami together. They're hot and Days needs romance." It needs to be more then that. It needs to be like "I feel Ejami is important to the show and it's future because they add a special quality to the show. I feel the whole Brady/Dimera dynamic will be interesting if these two end up together. It would change everything..." and then you can go on to talk about potential angles that can be played. Hell, help the show a bit because it;s not easy shifting through all the feedback and trying to get an accurate read of things. Specifics will help.

Fans do need to understand that they may not always get the same result, especially if they have faves in a triangle. Someone has to lose. If fans are only watching for their couple, so be it. It's their choice if they want to keep watching. Many fans are fans of the show and will stick around but some will bolt if they don't get an outcome they like and that is fine. It happens and maybe some day something will draw them back. Not everyone can end up happy. Days straddled the fence on Ejami and Lumi for so long because they were afraid to piss one side off. That can't happen. Someone has to lose and the show needs to commit to one side or have both lose and fans need to understand that both sides can't win.

I know this was long but I just hate the whole mentality of only thinking about what each individual wants and not what other fans want and what is best for the show. What we want might not be what is best and that is hard to deal with but it's the way things are. It's the nature of the beast. If a fan can't deal with that, then they can choose not to watch and that's understandable. I just think the bigger picture needs to be looked at by some fans because some haven't clearly done that in a long time, if at all.
Tim, I could KISS YOU.

Seriously.

The truth is, you can ALWAYS sell fans on something new, as long as you take the time to get them on board. I'm not saying this in an offensive way towards fan AT ALL. But I know there were LOTS of times (Matt and DOnna on AW is a great example) when I heard they were doing something, and I was against it, but the writers took the time with them, and eventually won me over.

I just said this on another board, but I'll say it here too. I have no issues with the IDEAS Days has been putting out there. Chloe and Lucas? Fine. Theo is autistic? Fine. Brady's in rehab? Fine. Just GET ME THERE. DOn't throw it away in a line of dialogue and then expect me to just accept it because you said it.

One of the most important princilples of writing is "PLAY, DON'T SAY" IN other words, don't TELL me how I have to feel about a couple... SHOW me.

ANd that's my biggest (And frankly, my ONLY) complaint with Days for the last six months. They're telling me things and not showing me things.

Wow, I got off-topic. Sorry. The reason why I wanted to respond to this is because you made an EXCELLENT point. If you screw up, don't backtrack. Accept it, and then use your creativity to get me where you originally wanted to go (but got off track somewhere along the way). I think it was your #4 and #5 points.

Becuase (And I cannot stress this enough - this is in NO WAY a judgment re: fans) I really believe you can get me ANYWHERE on a soap, get me rooting for ANYONE, no matter how long I may have hated them - as long as you take the time to show me WHY I should care.

Nicole's a great example. When she was first introduced, she was just a bitch. Smarmy, slutty, one-note. Then when they brought the father issue thing in there, both the fans AND the actress found something to latch ONTO. ANd many people's opinions changed.

Thanks, PhoenixRising. For always being a voice of reason. :-).
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

brimike
Aug 1 2008, 02:14 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 1 2008, 02:02 AM
Steve Frame
Jul 31 2008, 05:42 PM
This listening to the fans thing is what is the biggest thing wrong with soaps now.

Yes they do need to listen to fans to see what is working and what is not.

But in the end they need to have the brains enough to know they need to decided what is best for the show in the long run. They are now making way too many decisions by letting the fans hold the show hostage and changing things for them when they are not good for the show.

Irna Phillips listened to her fans and so did Irving Vendig and others, but they did not let them control the show.

When Irna killed off Kathy on GL in 1958, that was the first big fan outcry - millions of letters and phone calls stormed the studio in protest to bring her back or undo it somehow. Today a producer would change that but Irna and Lucy Ferri didn't. They addressed the situation that death happens in life and that it happens there too.

The same things happened when Sara Karr was killed on EON in the early 60's, and then the biggest outcry ever was when Jeff Baker was killed in a car crash on ATWT in 1962. That was termed by the newspapers - one of the first times that soap news was picked up by the mainstream press - they called it the car crash heard around the world or something to that affect.

Today the outcry would have caused those deaths to be undone - story rewritten and the like. But it didn't back then. They stood firm with the decision.

As Matt said many times fans think they know what they want and what is best for the show, but many fans have their own agenda at heart and not what is best for the show overall.
Bravo! :hail:

You hit the nail right on the head, Steve, with this post and your last post on the subject.

Fans are important. However, it should never EVER come to a point where fans CONTROL a show. The fans aren't paid to make decisions. The writers and producers are. The idea is to take feedback (and by this I mean rational feedback and not stuff from nut jobs like Terry and so on) and talk it over and determine what can be done in the best interest of the show based on the feedback as a whole. The results won't always be happy for some fans but that's life. It's happened alot. It's been happening on soaps and on any show for that matter for years.

For example (and I will use a Days one just for the hell of it), look at the Brady/Chloe/Philip triangle. Both pairings had major fanbases. Nearly ever poll had it at 50/50. No matter what Days did then they were pissing someone off. yes, JKJ leaving made it easier to choose a direction but you could tell they committed to Broe even before that. The writing was on the wall. They made a decision and stuck to their guns, despite some being pissed. It wasn't the end of the road. Look at what Days in the 90's. It made a decision to change it's storytelling style with JER and go for the supernatural, campy, Gothic stuff. It made many fans angry but they committed to it, despite it being detrimental in the long run. Again, in 2003, Days decided to take a risk on the SSK story. Sure, it flopped but for awhile they made a commitment to something and pissed off fans but...what happened? The ratings went up for months and it was when they started changing direction and chickening out that the show went downhill and turned to crap. I'm pleased we got those dead characters back but it's that shit that has messed with Days more then any other show.

What Days does is they look at feedback in letters, on boards, and what not and act on it. What happens then? Well, that action most of the time pisses off another group of fans and Days acts to rectify that and that reaction pisses off another group of fans and the cycle continues on and on. What Days needs to accept is you can't please every fan and what fans need to accept is sometimes what you want is not in the best interest of the show. The show needs to be more important then any one couple or character. Basically, the whole is greater then the sum of it's parts. That was the mentality for all soaps all the way up to around 2000 and the explosion of the message board age and rabid fanbases and so on.

Days needs to commit to things. No more backpedaling at a hint of fan dissension. They need to take risks like they have in the past. All soaps need to do this. Days and it's kneejerk reactions are the reason why the show has become a watered down mess and never has any consistency. Stick with a story and, even if it sucks, wait for it to end and don't forget it happened. Try to use some of it to further a better story or something. Too often Days will just drop a story as a reaction to fan upset and you don't hear of it again. That doesn't help at all.

It's simple.

1.) Analyze the show and feedback as a whole.
2.) Use feedback and discuss what is best for the show, making decisions on feedback in context of what is best for the show.
3.) Come up with story.
4.) Follow through on story COMPLETELY unless it is found offensive in some way or some unusual circumstance prevents you from doing so.
5.) if a story is a failure, see it through to the end and try to see if adjustments can be made to use aspects of the story to further something else. Don't just wipe it away like it never happened. That just makes it worse.

That is the way to go. The other issue is it's hard for Days to even gauge what the fans want when, like I said, any move they make ends up pissing other fans off and many fans change what direction they want the show to go in all the time. That is why it needs to understand that it can't please everyone and the issue is I think Corday wants too and that is a problem. Other soaps have it easy. Their fans just want quality stories featuring beloved characters. Many Days fans just want THEIR couple together and want the perfect story for THEIR couple or just want to see a certain character or actor every day or want one type of storytelling one day and then the next want something else and so on. It's not even about the show for some. Well, it's time that happens. It's time ALL fans start considering what is best for the show. Does that mean you have to forget about wanting what you want? Not at all. I just think everything needs to be looked at with the show's best interest at heart. I think fans need to voice their opinion in sensible ways (like the way opinions on this board are voiced) and in ways that come off like they want to help the show. Fans need to make it known it's not just about their own individual interests. It's not about their couple coming out on top of another fanbase's couple. It's about the show. If you feel your couple being together is in the best interest of the show, fine. Tell the show that. Make some points to them and explain why you feel that way and why you think the future is bright for the show with that couple being together. That is what I mean. It can't be "Put Ejami together. They're hot and Days needs romance." It needs to be more then that. It needs to be like "I feel Ejami is important to the show and it's future because they add a special quality to the show. I feel the whole Brady/Dimera dynamic will be interesting if these two end up together. It would change everything..." and then you can go on to talk about potential angles that can be played. Hell, help the show a bit because it;s not easy shifting through all the feedback and trying to get an accurate read of things. Specifics will help.

Fans do need to understand that they may not always get the same result, especially if they have faves in a triangle. Someone has to lose. If fans are only watching for their couple, so be it. It's their choice if they want to keep watching. Many fans are fans of the show and will stick around but some will bolt if they don't get an outcome they like and that is fine. It happens and maybe some day something will draw them back. Not everyone can end up happy. Days straddled the fence on Ejami and Lumi for so long because they were afraid to piss one side off. That can't happen. Someone has to lose and the show needs to commit to one side or have both lose and fans need to understand that both sides can't win.

I know this was long but I just hate the whole mentality of only thinking about what each individual wants and not what other fans want and what is best for the show. What we want might not be what is best and that is hard to deal with but it's the way things are. It's the nature of the beast. If a fan can't deal with that, then they can choose not to watch and that's understandable. I just think the bigger picture needs to be looked at by some fans because some haven't clearly done that in a long time, if at all.
Tim, I could KISS YOU.

Seriously.

The truth is, you can ALWAYS sell fans on something new, as long as you take the time to get them on board. I'm not saying this in an offensive way towards fan AT ALL. But I know there were LOTS of times (Matt and DOnna on AW is a great example) when I heard they were doing something, and I was against it, but the writers took the time with them, and eventually won me over.

I just said this on another board, but I'll say it here too. I have no issues with the IDEAS Days has been putting out there. Chloe and Lucas? Fine. Theo is autistic? Fine. Brady's in rehab? Fine. Just GET ME THERE. DOn't throw it away in a line of dialogue and then expect me to just accept it because you said it.

One of the most important princilples of writing is "PLAY, DON'T SAY" IN other words, don't TELL me how I have to feel about a couple... SHOW me.

ANd that's my biggest (And frankly, my ONLY) complaint with Days for the last six months. They're telling me things and not showing me things.

Wow, I got off-topic. Sorry. The reason why I wanted to respond to this is because you made an EXCELLENT point. If you screw up, don't backtrack. Accept it, and then use your creativity to get me where you originally wanted to go (but got off track somewhere along the way). I think it was your #4 and #5 points.

Becuase (And I cannot stress this enough - this is in NO WAY a judgment re: fans) I really believe you can get me ANYWHERE on a soap, get me rooting for ANYONE, no matter how long I may have hated them - as long as you take the time to show me WHY I should care.

Nicole's a great example. When she was first introduced, she was just a bitch. Smarmy, slutty, one-note. Then when they brought the father issue thing in there, both the fans AND the actress found something to latch ONTO. ANd many people's opinions changed.

Thanks, PhoenixRising. For always being a voice of reason. :-).
Great post yourself, my friend :hail: .

The sad part is I do think a good percentage of the audience won't be as patient as some. I think that is one of the many thing that has changed. It partly has to do with fans getting burned so many times but some of it goes back to some fans putting their own interests before the show's too. Some just want their couple and could care less about what is trying to be sold to them.

I've mentioned it before but even up to ten years ago, fans were willing to take the ride. Even if their couple was apart or their fave or faves had left, fans gave things a chance (and by chance I mean a few months). They gave themselves fully to the show but I can see how being burned many times can hurt that but I do think for some it's about what they want only as well. The same patience isn't there. JER's formula in the 90's could never work now. Fans don't have the patience or the loyalty. It's just a confusing mess with Days and alot of it the show itself created with the numerous writer and storytelling style changes and the pitting of fanbase against fanbase and so on. It's a sad situation all around.

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brimike


^^^ And I agree with you. It IS a sad situation, and I also agree that a lot of fan bases arent' as patient as they should be.

I've always said you can EVENTUALLY get EJ and Sami together (a PERFECT PRIME example of that is ROger and Holly on GL... that rape was NEVER white-washed, and yet, twenty years later, their scenes together were STILL electric)... but it couldn't be done in one episode where they talk about what happened that night in three scenes and then she has sex with him.

But sadly, the EJami fans wanted instant gratification. ANd they got it. And all it cost them was strong storytelling and (in my opinion) all the aspects of EJ's personality that made him interesting in the first place. (I've said it before and I'll say it again - now he's just a taller version of Lucas with a British accent... and that's a crying shame.).

Woah... I just realized what I typed. The EJami thing was simply MY EXAMPLE. It was the first thing that came to mind, but it is IN NO WAY the ONLY case of this happening on Days. I'm so sorry I used it, but at the same time, I won't delete it because it proves my point. But believe me - this is NOT a post that's anti-EJami. So please don't freak on me. :)

I remember watching soaps in the 80's. I remember watching DOOL in the 80's. I sat through almost TWO YEARS of Jack/Kayla/Steve - from the beginning, when it was your typical soap triangle of street guy vs. rich guy... through the rape... through Kayla losing her hearing... up until the wedding on the boat when she spoke for the first time... and I remember actually feelign somewhat SYMPATHETIC for the GUY WHO RAPED HER A YEAR EARLIER as he watched sadly his brother marry the women he loved, and the marriage he destroyed all over one night of horrific territorialism.

I really wonder sometimes if today's audience would put up with a story like that... never mind the much LONGER love story of Doug and Julie ten years BEFORE Steve and Kayla. Now, if a couple isn't a couple within six months, the fanbases raise holy hell.

Sorry. I'm realizing as I type this I might be openng a huge can of worms. But I won't delete it because it's what I believe. Feel free to disagree.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

^Not only that but the ratings drop and Days panics and abandons everything all together. That is why couples are often rushed now. Many feel Philip/Morgan are being rushed but in today's soap world they really aren't. They've interacted since March. Some soaps have a couple together a month and they are having sex. Fans want a quicker pace now so long stories are a thing of the past, really. I don't think that is a bad thing because it's keeping with the times and soaps need to do that while also staying true to their show's roots and to more traditional qualities. You just have to make every scene have meaning and I think you can maintain a quick pace and still make it all work.
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Aug 1 2008, 02:43 AM.
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brimike


PhoenixRising05
Aug 1 2008, 02:39 AM
^Not only that but the ratings drop and Days panics and abandons everything all together. That is why couples are often rushed now. Many feel Philip/Morgan are being rushed but in today's soap world they really aren't. They've interacted since March. Some soaps have a couple together a month and they are having sex. Fans want a quicker pace now so long stories are a thing of the past, really. I don't think that is a bad thing because it's keeping with the times and soaps need to do that while also staying true to their show's roots and to more traditional qualities. You just have to make every scene have meaning and I think you can maintain a quick pace and still make it all work.
Oh, I agree. I've got nothign against the quicker pace. I get it. Today's audience has that MTV-mentality where they want the action NOW. And I have no problem with that. I rememebr once upon a time, fans waited MONTHS for two characters to finally "make love" (THe only time in my LIFE I ever heard sex referred to in that way was on soaps). And that's something I will GLADLY accept to be gone, as a sign of the times.

People have sex sooner now. Whether you agree or disagree with the morality of it, you can't deny it's how the world works now. So I get it - they're going to have sex sooner. But if that's the case, than PLAY OUT THE BEATS. Acknowledge that they had sex, but are unwilling to accept they have deeper feelings for each other. TAKE ME ON THAT JOURNEY. BEcause honestly? If you tell THAT particular story right? It can be JUST as romantic as the stories where you had to wait a year for couples to sleep together. You can get romance out of ANYTHING as long as you PLAY IT OUT.

Sorry... I feel like I'm just repeating myself now. I promise, I'll stop for the night. :-)

ETA: ANd I couldn't agree more with you that Days has a habit of panicking. I truly believe THAT'S the reason why nobody's body is EVER found on Days - because they're WAY too afaid of pissing people off if someone actually DIES. THey ALWAYS panic and go back to their original coupling. In fact, I think it's the ONLY soap (besides MAYBE B&B) that still has that knee-jerk reaction in terms of its storytelling.
Edited by brimike, Aug 1 2008, 02:50 AM.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

brimike
Aug 1 2008, 02:14 AM
Tim, I could KISS YOU.

Seriously.

The truth is, you can ALWAYS sell fans on something new, as long as you take the time to get them on board. I'm not saying this in an offensive way towards fan AT ALL. But I know there were LOTS of times (Matt and DOnna on AW is a great example) when I heard they were doing something, and I was against it, but the writers took the time with them, and eventually won me over.

I just said this on another board, but I'll say it here too. I have no issues with the IDEAS Days has been putting out there. Chloe and Lucas? Fine. Theo is autistic? Fine. Brady's in rehab? Fine. Just GET ME THERE. DOn't throw it away in a line of dialogue and then expect me to just accept it because you said it.

One of the most important princilples of writing is "PLAY, DON'T SAY" IN other words, don't TELL me how I have to feel about a couple... SHOW me.

ANd that's my biggest (And frankly, my ONLY) complaint with Days for the last six months. They're telling me things and not showing me things.

Wow, I got off-topic. Sorry. The reason why I wanted to respond to this is because you made an EXCELLENT point. If you screw up, don't backtrack. Accept it, and then use your creativity to get me where you originally wanted to go (but got off track somewhere along the way). I think it was your #4 and #5 points.

Becuase (And I cannot stress this enough - this is in NO WAY a judgment re: fans) I really believe you can get me ANYWHERE on a soap, get me rooting for ANYONE, no matter how long I may have hated them - as long as you take the time to show me WHY I should care.

Nicole's a great example. When she was first introduced, she was just a bitch. Smarmy, slutty, one-note. Then when they brought the father issue thing in there, both the fans AND the actress found something to latch ONTO. ANd many people's opinions changed.

Thanks, PhoenixRising. For always being a voice of reason. :-).
Your post is fantastic, too!

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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Dang, did I hit Report instead of reply again????? Tim, I meant to give you a Rock On, too! :D Posted Image
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Hergie23
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Drew
Jul 31 2008, 10:01 PM
Hergie23
Jul 30 2008, 09:53 PM
Drew
Jul 30 2008, 08:53 PM
I dont get why some fans are still trying to force John and Marlena on us all when even the actors playing them dont even want to be coupled anymore.
Well I don't think that is true. Drake is having fun with his new character but they both know the importance of their coupling. They always have. And they both know they will end up together in the end. And I know Dee is a big supporter. If they weren't still very important to the show, then the play-by-play of their story would not be on the cover of the mags every week. Not that it should matter what the actors want anyway, as demonstrated by this so-called Diva who is claiming to write the show. They are paid to act, not write.
then why was he holding chats to get people to throw their support behind Jate???
Umm, I do not think that was the purpose of the chat. He was doing that to appease the 7 Drakers that are obssessed with him and all have multiple screen names throughout the Internet and hate everything Marlena/Deidre, one in particular who posts on this board. It seems like there are more of them than there actually are. And if you read that chat, which I have, you will notice that it doesn't come across like a man was typing those responses to the posters. I have no proof of that, it is just my opinion.

Anyways, that was over three years ago, and there is way more to that story than most people know. But, I'm not going to get into that. He loves Dee and John and Marlena. All you have to do is listen to interviews and watch clips from their trip to Australia in 2007 to see that.
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cubsgirl
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Both Phoenix and Brimike made some excellent points. And they both addressed why I decided to stop watching. I get that maybe my favorites wouldn't be on all the time or even together at the end. I use the Shelle/Phelle pairings. The first time Philip/Belle were married, she COMPLETELY used him to get over her feelings for Shawn. She never really cared about him as more than a friend. Belle only stayed with him because "Perfect Girl" wouldn't abandon a marriage. Both guys came off as idiots who followed her like a lost puppy. With the quad that started up after Tinda Lao we started to see why Belle was really attracted to Philip. The story was actually showing how she was torn between the two guys and the two sides of herself. Shawn was the choice that wouldn't always be easy but it was the one everyone thought she would make. Philip on the other hand would be an easy life but wasn't the choice everyone expected her to make. She was battling between "Perfect Girl" that did everything she was always suppose to do and "Adult Belle" who saw life wasn't the fairy tale she always thought.

But then we get a writer's change, everyone makes ups and forgives after one discussion on a plane ride to Ireland (I will say the life or death situation on the plane is a time where people reevaluate their choices, but still things were heading that way before that). We get a day or two with Theo showing signs of autism and a day later he is diagnosed and that is it. There isn't the build up anymore. It is part the fans fault, but also the fault of the writers for thinking the fans can't handle the build up needed. We are not five year olds that need to be told what we like and what we don't like.

Even in those short few months we saw a story developing and that was one reason there were so many excited about it and why you had some many fans of different pairings. We weren't being told, "This is the couple to cheer for". That was always my biggest problem with the whole Shelle/Shimi thing. It always came off that one week Shelle fans were made happy and the next week Shimi fans were. They would never pick out a definite position and go with it. I have seen the same with the whole Ejami/Lumi debates, which is one reason I try to stay out of those debates.

There isn't one magic band-aid that is going to fix all of this mess. But there are things that can be done that would heal the problems slowly. I just don't know if Days has the time to do it anymore. There are many fans (such as myself) that have given up because there are so many times you can get burned when you were told one thing and something completely different happened.
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Manny
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So I got stuck at like page 170... I'm assuming no new news has been reported... right?
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Shylock


I don't think the whole "rushing it" thing is the fans fault. They're not the ones that are running the show and making things happen. It's not the fans fault that the producers, writers and executives get all scared and hit the "Emergency - Press to Change Direction!" button whenever a group of fans cry and whine about something.

The writers and decision makers, in this case, are the ones that dictate where the story is going. And honestly, they may want something now, now, now.. but if you actually space it out in an interesting manner, they will watch. And if you cut it off too early and it flops, you just know those same fickle people are going to go "Well, see, they should have done a better job with the story!" The last good job they did of building a couple and spacing out the time they wait to make love was Shawn and Belle up until captain dipshit came in and fucked that pairing up the ass with a rusty spork with that mass crapfest of fakeouts and crappy "Oh, so he was locked in a cage for a few months and manipulated by Jan Spears? Eh, that don't impress me much." story development.

The point is that even long builds can work today if they're done right. They have control over what their audience gets and how long it is until they get it. All it takes is a little effort and not giving into that "low attention span" talking point as if it's some fact. It's not. It's all in the presentation, execution and choice of talent you use. The writers should take the wise words of the voice in the cornfields of Iowa - "If you build it, they will come."
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cubsgirl
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^^I agree with you on the idea "If you build it, they will come." But the thing is TPTB start to build it, but a couple of very vocal people complain about it and TPTB abandon the building and start a new one. That is what I meant when I said fans have some of the blame. TPTB are looking for that magic glue that will fix the one leak in the wall. But everytime they fix one leak it creates a new one. There are many that can take some blame for the mess Days is in as well as there are going to have to be many solutions to fix the mess.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Hergie23
Aug 1 2008, 07:00 AM
Drew
Jul 31 2008, 10:01 PM
Hergie23
Jul 30 2008, 09:53 PM
Drew
Jul 30 2008, 08:53 PM
I dont get why some fans are still trying to force John and Marlena on us all when even the actors playing them dont even want to be coupled anymore.
Well I don't think that is true. Drake is having fun with his new character but they both know the importance of their coupling. They always have. And they both know they will end up together in the end. And I know Dee is a big supporter. If they weren't still very important to the show, then the play-by-play of their story would not be on the cover of the mags every week. Not that it should matter what the actors want anyway, as demonstrated by this so-called Diva who is claiming to write the show. They are paid to act, not write.
then why was he holding chats to get people to throw their support behind Jate???
Umm, I do not think that was the purpose of the chat. He was doing that to appease the 7 Drakers that are obssessed with him and all have multiple screen names throughout the Internet and hate everything Marlena/Deidre, one in particular who posts on this board. It seems like there are more of them than there actually are. And if you read that chat, which I have, you will notice that it doesn't come across like a man was typing those responses to the posters. I have no proof of that, it is just my opinion.

Anyways, that was over three years ago, and there is way more to that story than most people know. But, I'm not going to get into that. He loves Dee and John and Marlena. All you have to do is listen to interviews and watch clips from their trip to Australia in 2007 to see that.
Yeah, I know the backstory, too, and my perspective, i suspect, is a LOT different than yours. I was there and saw the hell that broke lose on SC and the wailing and gnashing of teeth because Drake DARED to have a chat with Lauren and express an opinion contrary to what some expected him to have. How DARE he even consider the Jate fans? :huh: ^o)

I also recall the nasty, nasty, DAMN nasty things that happened at fan events in reaction to this and cannot even comprehend the vasty immaturity of a bunch of so-called grown-ups that consider themselves "adults"

And, I think that's an insult to Drake's fans by saying SEVEN of them. THIS, my friend, is an attitude that causes a lot of the bullshit on Days and makes the powers that be do their stupid asinine dance to make everyone happy.

But, like you said, that was three years ago. Get over it.
OK, I'm done. :soapbox:
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Manny
Aug 1 2008, 07:18 AM
So I got stuck at like page 170... I'm assuming no new news has been reported... right?
No. Just a lot of topic changes and wailing and gnashing of teeth and arguments. :D
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ges
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Do they really listen to the fans? I guess the evidence that they do is that they are bringing Stephano back. But that to me is more because the actor was discussing how poorly he thought he was treated. So I guess they are pushed around by fans and actors, too. And her I was thinking they were listening to the strange little voices in their heads. Someone needs to grow a pair over there and write a show that they believe in and have the cojones to stick with it. Nah, that will never happen.

Why the silence from tptb and Nelson regarding riveting revelations. Lawyers? Or just hoping it goes away. Maybe the lawyers can write the show. Jesus.
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FanODays


cubsgirl
Aug 1 2008, 07:11 AM
Both Phoenix and Brimike made some excellent points. And they both addressed why I decided to stop watching. I get that maybe my favorites wouldn't be on all the time or even together at the end. I use the Shelle/Phelle pairings. The first time Philip/Belle were married, she COMPLETELY used him to get over her feelings for Shawn. She never really cared about him as more than a friend. Belle only stayed with him because "Perfect Girl" wouldn't abandon a marriage. Both guys came off as idiots who followed her like a lost puppy. With the quad that started up after Tinda Lao we started to see why Belle was really attracted to Philip. The story was actually showing how she was torn between the two guys and the two sides of herself. Shawn was the choice that wouldn't always be easy but it was the one everyone thought she would make. Philip on the other hand would be an easy life but wasn't the choice everyone expected her to make. She was battling between "Perfect Girl" that did everything she was always suppose to do and "Adult Belle" who saw life wasn't the fairy tale she always thought.

But then we get a writer's change, everyone makes ups and forgives after one discussion on a plane ride to Ireland (I will say the life or death situation on the plane is a time where people reevaluate their choices, but still things were heading that way before that). We get a day or two with Theo showing signs of autism and a day later he is diagnosed and that is it. There isn't the build up anymore. It is part the fans fault, but also the fault of the writers for thinking the fans can't handle the build up needed. We are not five year olds that need to be told what we like and what we don't like.

Even in those short few months we saw a story developing and that was one reason there were so many excited about it and why you had some many fans of different pairings. We weren't being told, "This is the couple to cheer for". That was always my biggest problem with the whole Shelle/Shimi thing. It always came off that one week Shelle fans were made happy and the next week Shimi fans were. They would never pick out a definite position and go with it. I have seen the same with the whole Ejami/Lumi debates, which is one reason I try to stay out of those debates.

There isn't one magic band-aid that is going to fix all of this mess. But there are things that can be done that would heal the problems slowly. I just don't know if Days has the time to do it anymore. There are many fans (such as myself) that have given up because there are so many times you can get burned when you were told one thing and something completely different happened.
You know I hated Philip when Brandt was in the role and Reilly was writing for him. I even hated him in the beginning when JKJ came back but as time went on, I began to see things with Phelle even if I didn't want to admit it. For me that is one of those cases like was stated above that if the writing is there, without sacrificing Shawn to turn him into a complete idiot, I might be able to get behind a pairing that I hated.

Same could be true for EJami although I am diggin' EJole so much it would be hard for me to switch. One talk didn't wipe out the past and I don' t think they should have done that. Time should have been taken for that to be put behind them but it wasn't. The show is so focused on instant fixes that the viewers get short changed.
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Shylock


cubsgirl
Aug 1 2008, 08:37 AM
^^I agree with you on the idea "If you build it, they will come." But the thing is TPTB start to build it, but a couple of very vocal people complain about it and TPTB abandon the building and start a new one. That is what I meant when I said fans have some of the blame. TPTB are looking for that magic glue that will fix the one leak in the wall. But everytime they fix one leak it creates a new one. There are many that can take some blame for the mess Days is in as well as there are going to have to be many solutions to fix the mess.
Oh, I know what your saying. But the end decisions fall on the part of TPTB. And it just takes someone with a good vision for the show and the determination to go through with it, I think.
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Hergie23
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ladyofthelake
Aug 1 2008, 08:42 AM
Hergie23
Aug 1 2008, 07:00 AM
Drew
Jul 31 2008, 10:01 PM
Hergie23
Jul 30 2008, 09:53 PM
Drew
Jul 30 2008, 08:53 PM
I dont get why some fans are still trying to force John and Marlena on us all when even the actors playing them dont even want to be coupled anymore.
Well I don't think that is true. Drake is having fun with his new character but they both know the importance of their coupling. They always have. And they both know they will end up together in the end. And I know Dee is a big supporter. If they weren't still very important to the show, then the play-by-play of their story would not be on the cover of the mags every week. Not that it should matter what the actors want anyway, as demonstrated by this so-called Diva who is claiming to write the show. They are paid to act, not write.
then why was he holding chats to get people to throw their support behind Jate???
Umm, I do not think that was the purpose of the chat. He was doing that to appease the 7 Drakers that are obssessed with him and all have multiple screen names throughout the Internet and hate everything Marlena/Deidre, one in particular who posts on this board. It seems like there are more of them than there actually are. And if you read that chat, which I have, you will notice that it doesn't come across like a man was typing those responses to the posters. I have no proof of that, it is just my opinion.

Anyways, that was over three years ago, and there is way more to that story than most people know. But, I'm not going to get into that. He loves Dee and John and Marlena. All you have to do is listen to interviews and watch clips from their trip to Australia in 2007 to see that.
Yeah, I know the backstory, too, and my perspective, i suspect, is a LOT different than yours. I was there and saw the hell that broke lose on SC and the wailing and gnashing of teeth because Drake DARED to have a chat with Lauren and express an opinion contrary to what some expected him to have. How DARE he even consider the Jate fans? :huh: ^o)

I also recall the nasty, nasty, DAMN nasty things that happened at fan events in reaction to this and cannot even comprehend the vasty immaturity of a bunch of so-called grown-ups that consider themselves "adults"

And, I think that's an insult to Drake's fans by saying SEVEN of them. THIS, my friend, is an attitude that causes a lot of the bullshit on Days and makes the powers that be do their stupid asinine dance to make everyone happy.

But, like you said, that was three years ago. Get over it.
OK, I'm done. :soapbox:
I apologize if it came across that I think Drake has 7 fans. That is not it at all. Drake has a very large fanbase. But there are a select few that are referred to as the Drakers, and their sole intent is to bash Marlena. As soon as he even so much as looks at another woman, they claim what awesome chemistry they have together and that it is unconditional love. It could be a blow-up doll, just as long as he is not with Marlena. Their arguments are completely unoriginal and irrational. They just say the same things over and over. And many have a handful of screen names. Drake could be discovered to be the leader of Al Qaeda, and they would defend him.

I love Drake. I have since I started watching. I don't particularly care for Jawn but that is neither here nor there. And I don't deny that Drake can create some chemistry with other actresses either. I just strongly prefer that he be with Marlena. Or AT LEAST, if they are going to pair him with someone else while they are apart, as they always do, let Marlena have some fun too. If they did that, maybe she wouldn't come off looking so self-righteous all the time. Then let them find their way back to each other. Instead, they just have her pining over him all the time, which is annoying. She went from the affair in 1993 to their 1997 reunion without a companion. She's been with two people since 1986. John and Roman. Give my girl another love interest once in a while. Honestly, back when I actually enjoyed the writing on Days, John and Marlena's storylines were of much better quality when they were not together, but finding their way to each other. Once they finally put them together, they didn't know how to write for them. And now every time they are apart, John is sleeping with somebody else. It has just gotten really old for me.

And yes, that was 3 years ago, so it doesn't really matter now. But I was actually referring to something else more behind the scenes that happened. I don't claim to know what went on at his event. Nor would I ever approve of anything bad happening to him as a result of his opinion.
Edited by Hergie23, Aug 1 2008, 09:39 AM.
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Manny
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ladyofthelake
Aug 1 2008, 08:43 AM
Manny
Aug 1 2008, 07:18 AM
So I got stuck at like page 170... I'm assuming no new news has been reported... right?
No. Just a lot of topic changes and wailing and gnashing of teeth and arguments. :D
Cool! Thanks for the answer! ;)
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Pearly
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I remember when rooting for ďyour coupleĒ meant crying in front of the TV screen as Payla and Bope said their wedding vows to each other or when Bope fans watched as Bo and Billie made love for the first time and they screamed their lungs out at the TV. Iím sure many of those same people wrote letters to the execs voicing how they agreed or disagreed about that and other decisions. Then came internet and with that message boards, closely followed by fanbase forums. Somewhere along the way, from that point, the lines between reality and fiction have been blurred. Weíve gone from writing a simple letter to someone in the higher-ups of a TV show to radical internet behavior like gay bashing, calling people out as rape lovers/rapists, pedophiles, lunatics, losers etc. etc. I speak from personal experience because I was on both sides of the interchanges at one point or another. What is that shit? I mean when you take it to that kind of an extreme itís no wonder people lose respect for each other. Itís a fucking fictional show for Peteís sake! Then you have the infamous fanbase wars, which I am embarrassed to say I have participated in, in the past. Luckily, I have figured out I had a brain, I used it and am no longer involved in that kind of petty crap.

Let me preface the following statement Iím going to make by saying that I am not pointing a finger to any particular fanbase, this is a generalized statement about ALL of them.

Basically, the writers listen to one fanbase, then the opposing one steps in and you have a virtual tug-of-war going on with the writers in the middle [insert political cartoon here]. One fanbase doesnít get what they want, they stop watching. Then if the other doesnít get what they want, they stop watching. Then you wonder why the ratings are in the slumps. Itís not right and itís not fair to the show itself. At this point, I think itís really just too late altogether and thatís why soaps will never be the same in general. The writers have allowed the fanbases to dictate the shows to the point that they are in an inevitable downward spiral. I can only speak for Days because itís the only soap I watch, but Iím pretty sure that the ratings are shitty at the moment due to the writing for ALL characters sucking ass. :lol: Itís not the power of one fanbase over another right now with Days IMO. Iím sure Days lost a lot of viewers when word got out that Higley was the new writer either way.

At any event, I will use myself as an example. I have been a LONG TIME Sami fan, I will continue to root for her to see the light and be with EJ and I hope that they are endgame. Now, am I gonna stop watching the show because they decide to have EJ and Nicole have a romp in an elevator. No. In reality, the guy has been after Sami for two fucking years, sheís given him the run around more times than I care to mention, it gets tiresome. Does he still love her? Yes. Does he love him? Itís obvious she does. I donít want to watch this merry go round any more though. Let him have his fun. Sami has ALWAYS had a couple of screws loose and needs psychiatric help. Until SHE gets her shit together EJami will NEVER happen.

With that being said, my point to all of this is that the fans that are truly a fan of the show itself would see past all of this and work together with other fans that may not be rooting for the same couple to SAVE DAYS from further ratings slumps. The show is what truly matters, if you donít have that you donít have a couple to root for period.
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