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SOD: Ava's Good Bye
Topic Started: Jul 31 2008, 01:20 PM (7,317 Views)
thereyougo


Scott
Aug 2 2008, 08:57 PM
No offense but I don't see how any of this pertains to Ava, Braun or her exit?
Back on topic, Ava is gone, hopefully for good next week and maybe just maybe the show will begin to bounce back in the ratings.
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destinyrules
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thereyougo
Aug 2 2008, 09:56 PM
Scott
Aug 2 2008, 08:57 PM
No offense but I don't see how any of this pertains to Ava, Braun or her exit?
Back on topic, Ava is gone, hopefully for good next week and maybe just maybe the show will begin to bounce back in the ratings.
:rockon: :sweet: :werd:
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Jiggs
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thereyougo
Aug 2 2008, 09:56 PM
Scott
Aug 2 2008, 08:57 PM
No offense but I don't see how any of this pertains to Ava, Braun or her exit?
Back on topic, Ava is gone, hopefully for good next week and maybe just maybe the show will begin to bounce back in the ratings.
What a colossal waste of airtime that character was. Days needs to stop with the stunt casting, just to get some GH actor on the show.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
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CatherineEarnshaw


PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
Can you really make a statement about a fanbase like you just did? Not every member of a fanbase thinks the same. Besides, how about the fans who like more than one couple?
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

CatherineEarnshaw
Aug 3 2008, 08:08 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
Can you really make a statement about a fanbase like you just did? Not every member of a fanbase thinks the same. Besides, how about the fans who like more than one couple?
I can because anyone who knows me on this board know I don't think poorly of every person who is in a fanbase. I'm not naive. I know that not everyone thinks the same or that they are a part of the rabid fanbase quotient I keep talking about. I know some J&M fans or Steve and Kayla fans or whatever aren't cut from the same cloth. I'm more or less generalizing just to make my point.
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JohnandMarlenaFreak
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Oh darn tomorrow is Goodbye Ava,I have alot to celebrate.

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PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
I completely disagree. I think they went wrong by bringing on a new character and shoving her down the audience's throats. She was the center of that Payla story... I don't know how it could even be called a Payla story since it was mostly about Ava kidnapping Hope. But really it was an AVA story. Then that did nothing for the ratings because the audience was expected to care about Ava and nobody did. So because the press and some fans raved about the actress, they decided to keep her around and shove her into another story for no good reason. There was already enough conflict in the J&M story... but they decided to eliminate Marlena and bring on AVA and make it the story all about JAWN the jerk and his little mobster girl friend. They even had to rewrite the character to put her in the story, since they spent time trying to redeem her and have her move on from married men and being pathetic. I don't care who told tptb or TB that she was well received and a big hit, but she sure didn't do anything for the ratings. Again, it's a soap rule... you don't bring on a new character and center the show around her and expect the audience to care.

And I didn't say the actress was a waste, I said the character was a waste. I didn't even hate Ava. I just thought she was pointless and a waste of time. Interesting that you somehow think J&M fans didn't think she was a good actress, yet you think S&K fans did? How on earth can you make such a statement? Have you polled every J&M fan? Every S&K fan? You seem to want to disparage J&M fans somehow.

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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 02:49 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
I completely disagree. I think they went wrong by bringing on a new character and shoving her down the audience's throats. She was the center of that Payla story... I don't know how it could even be called a Payla story since it was mostly about Ava kidnapping Hope. But really it was an AVA story. Then that did nothing for the ratings because the audience was expected to care about Ava and nobody did. So because the press and some fans raved about the actress, they decided to keep her around and shove her into another story for no good reason. There was already enough conflict in the J&M story... but they decided to eliminate Marlena and bring on AVA and make it the story all about JAWN the jerk and his little mobster girl friend. They even had to rewrite the character to put her in the story, since they spent time trying to redeem her and have her move on from married men and being pathetic. I don't care who told tptb or TB that she was well received and a big hit, but she sure didn't do anything for the ratings. Again, it's a soap rule... you don't bring on a new character and center the show around her and expect the audience to care.

And I didn't say the actress was a waste, I said the character was a waste. I didn't even hate Ava. I just thought she was pointless and a waste of time. Interesting that you somehow think J&M fans didn't think she was a good actress, yet you think S&K fans did? How on earth can you make such a statement? Have you polled every J&M fan? Every S&K fan? You seem to want to disparage J&M fans somehow.

While the ratings did not go up during the Ava/Steve/Kayla story, they didn't go down. They didn't go down until June and I think the ratings downturn has more to do with a lack of direction amongst stories (which goes back to Days being hesitant over where to go because of fanbases but I digress) and also because barely anything was happening. It wasn't exciting at all. At least during the Ava story some were curious as to the Steve/Ava history and what would happen.

I also disagree about the story not being a Steve/Kayla story. It delved into Steve's past and that affects them and their future so it was just as much as Steve/Kayla story as it was a Ava story. Ava drove the action of the story and most of the effects were felt by Steve and Kayla, which IMO makes this more their story then Ava's.

I will just disagree about the J&M/Ava stuff because I think it's been argued ad nauseum. I still think it fits nicely with other aspects of the story but I will agree they kind of shoved her in there. I do feel it worked though and I think it would've been much better had the writing for Marlena not been dreadful until recently.

I also never said that J&M fans did not appreciate the actress. I honestly don't know if they did, which is why I didn't mention that J&M fans did. I know Steve and Kayla fans did because I saw posts in many places where they said they liked the actress and her work and even felt they could enjoy the character away from their couple. I never once said I knew for sure J&M fans did not feel the same.

Just for the record, I used to be a J&M fan and got back into them with the new take on John. We have had some very nice posters here on the DR that are J&M fans and they can attest to the fact that I don't go out of my way to bash J&M fans or any fanbase. I just post my view like everyone else. No one has to like it but it is what it is and I have to say some of the reactions in some of the threads the last few days supports my points and the points of others...that fanbases (Not every fan in them, mind you) are helping to kill this show.
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PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 03:36 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 02:49 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
I completely disagree. I think they went wrong by bringing on a new character and shoving her down the audience's throats. She was the center of that Payla story... I don't know how it could even be called a Payla story since it was mostly about Ava kidnapping Hope. But really it was an AVA story. Then that did nothing for the ratings because the audience was expected to care about Ava and nobody did. So because the press and some fans raved about the actress, they decided to keep her around and shove her into another story for no good reason. There was already enough conflict in the J&M story... but they decided to eliminate Marlena and bring on AVA and make it the story all about JAWN the jerk and his little mobster girl friend. They even had to rewrite the character to put her in the story, since they spent time trying to redeem her and have her move on from married men and being pathetic. I don't care who told tptb or TB that she was well received and a big hit, but she sure didn't do anything for the ratings. Again, it's a soap rule... you don't bring on a new character and center the show around her and expect the audience to care.

And I didn't say the actress was a waste, I said the character was a waste. I didn't even hate Ava. I just thought she was pointless and a waste of time. Interesting that you somehow think J&M fans didn't think she was a good actress, yet you think S&K fans did? How on earth can you make such a statement? Have you polled every J&M fan? Every S&K fan? You seem to want to disparage J&M fans somehow.

While the ratings did not go up during the Ava/Steve/Kayla story, they didn't go down. They didn't go down until June and I think the ratings downturn has more to do with a lack of direction amongst stories (which goes back to Days being hesitant over where to go because of fanbases but I digress) and also because barely anything was happening. It wasn't exciting at all. At least during the Ava story some were curious as to the Steve/Ava history and what would happen.

I also disagree about the story not being a Steve/Kayla story. It delved into Steve's past and that affects them and their future so it was just as much as Steve/Kayla story as it was a Ava story. Ava drove the action of the story and most of the effects were felt by Steve and Kayla, which IMO makes this more their story then Ava's.

I will just disagree about the J&M/Ava stuff because I think it's been argued ad nauseum. I still think it fits nicely with other aspects of the story but I will agree they kind of shoved her in there. I do feel it worked though and I think it would've been much better had the writing for Marlena not been dreadful until recently.

I also never said that J&M fans did not appreciate the actress. I honestly don't know if they did, which is why I didn't mention that J&M fans did. I know Steve and Kayla fans did because I saw posts in many places where they said they liked the actress and her work and even felt they could enjoy the character away from their couple. I never once said I knew for sure J&M fans did not feel the same.

Just for the record, I used to be a J&M fan and got back into them with the new take on John. We have had some very nice posters here on the DR that are J&M fans and they can attest to the fact that I don't go out of my way to bash J&M fans or any fanbase. I just post my view like everyone else. No one has to like it but it is what it is and I have to say some of the reactions in some of the threads the last few days supports my points and the points of others...that fanbases (Not every fan in them, mind you) are helping to kill this show.
Shouldn't the ratings have gone up though? If she was so popular and appreciated? If the "S&K" story was a hit? They spent a lot of money and time on that story. If it had been an S&K story, the S&K fans would have liked it. I believe it was universally rejected by them. Just because it brought up Steve's past, doesn't mean it was a story for S&K fans. No, it was all about AVA, and introducing that character, and using a supercouple to do it. Yes, Ava drove the story, but S&K weren't even allowed to react to it. There was no fall out. Ava was never a threat to them. What were the effects felt by S&K? Other than the short term threat to the health of the baby? The same will be said about her effect on J&M. It will be non-existent. She is gone, and that's it. That says to me that it was a waste of time.

Ok, I understand what you are saying about not knowing what J&M fans felt about the actress. I guess the way you worded it by saying "at least", it implied something that you didn't intend.

It is very apparent on this board that there is a general overall dislike of certain fan bases and how we are killing the show, that is why I have rarely posted since joining. The same attitude is prevalent on SON - or at least it was when I last went there. It gets tiring having to justify what kind of fan I am or not and why I don't think we are killing the show.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 03:36 PM
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Aug 3 2008, 02:49 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
I completely disagree. I think they went wrong by bringing on a new character and shoving her down the audience's throats. She was the center of that Payla story... I don't know how it could even be called a Payla story since it was mostly about Ava kidnapping Hope. But really it was an AVA story. Then that did nothing for the ratings because the audience was expected to care about Ava and nobody did. So because the press and some fans raved about the actress, they decided to keep her around and shove her into another story for no good reason. There was already enough conflict in the J&M story... but they decided to eliminate Marlena and bring on AVA and make it the story all about JAWN the jerk and his little mobster girl friend. They even had to rewrite the character to put her in the story, since they spent time trying to redeem her and have her move on from married men and being pathetic. I don't care who told tptb or TB that she was well received and a big hit, but she sure didn't do anything for the ratings. Again, it's a soap rule... you don't bring on a new character and center the show around her and expect the audience to care.

And I didn't say the actress was a waste, I said the character was a waste. I didn't even hate Ava. I just thought she was pointless and a waste of time. Interesting that you somehow think J&M fans didn't think she was a good actress, yet you think S&K fans did? How on earth can you make such a statement? Have you polled every J&M fan? Every S&K fan? You seem to want to disparage J&M fans somehow.

While the ratings did not go up during the Ava/Steve/Kayla story, they didn't go down. They didn't go down until June and I think the ratings downturn has more to do with a lack of direction amongst stories (which goes back to Days being hesitant over where to go because of fanbases but I digress) and also because barely anything was happening. It wasn't exciting at all. At least during the Ava story some were curious as to the Steve/Ava history and what would happen.

I also disagree about the story not being a Steve/Kayla story. It delved into Steve's past and that affects them and their future so it was just as much as Steve/Kayla story as it was a Ava story. Ava drove the action of the story and most of the effects were felt by Steve and Kayla, which IMO makes this more their story then Ava's.

I will just disagree about the J&M/Ava stuff because I think it's been argued ad nauseum. I still think it fits nicely with other aspects of the story but I will agree they kind of shoved her in there. I do feel it worked though and I think it would've been much better had the writing for Marlena not been dreadful until recently.

I also never said that J&M fans did not appreciate the actress. I honestly don't know if they did, which is why I didn't mention that J&M fans did. I know Steve and Kayla fans did because I saw posts in many places where they said they liked the actress and her work and even felt they could enjoy the character away from their couple. I never once said I knew for sure J&M fans did not feel the same.

Just for the record, I used to be a J&M fan and got back into them with the new take on John. We have had some very nice posters here on the DR that are J&M fans and they can attest to the fact that I don't go out of my way to bash J&M fans or any fanbase. I just post my view like everyone else. No one has to like it but it is what it is and I have to say some of the reactions in some of the threads the last few days supports my points and the points of others...that fanbases (Not every fan in them, mind you) are helping to kill this show.
You shouldn't have to defend yourself ad naseum, Tim. It's strange how someone is accusing YOU of not being objective, when most posters consider you almost too objective! ;) :D
And, I still don't understand how a few folks can continually blame ratings on one character. That's just silly.

Back to Ava:
Granted, Ava came on canvas in an odd way, to me. But yes, it was still a Steve and Kayla story, originally. It just wasn't handled well, but it did delve more into his past. The resolution, however, should not have had to come about because Stephen Nichols and MAry Beth Evans told someone it was resolved poorly. At least it was, although it was pretty anti-climatic. That issue should have been solved BEFORE Kayla worked to help find out that Ava had been drugged. The llayers to the story weren't there; therefore, this was just a one-dimensional character trying to break up Steve and Kayla rather than a complex character with a complex history.
For me now, I first found Ava more acceptable not as an obstacle to John and Marlena (believe it or not), but because of her developed friendship with Nicole. Tamera Braun did an excellent job of taking a very thinly veiled confused mental case from an abusive background and had her overcome her forced addiction to the point of going out with her head held high. Nicole and Ava's friendship was a high point of viewing for me. The chemistry between Drake Hogestyn and Tamera Braun, for me, was just a bonus.
Like quite a few others, I do enjoy the new dynamic between John and Marlena, as long as Marlena isn't trying to force her wishes on him. (Sorry, back to MArlena). Actually, Deidre Hall is helping me see Marlena's pain when she sees Ava with John. As for Ava....John is the first man to totally accept her for herself, despite her past. For John, Ava is a woman who is not trying to turn him into someone he doesn't necessarily want to be right now. I can see why Drake enjoys this turn of events in acting and why he made the comments he did.
And, I hope, if the opportunity arises, TPTB invite Tamera back, and I hope she accepts. So, maybe she won't come back for John. Whatever. Tamera has taken a little puny, poorly developed role and developed it into something that seems to intrigue many people.
Edited by ladyofthelake, Aug 3 2008, 04:12 PM.
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CatherineEarnshaw
Aug 2 2008, 10:19 AM
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Aug 2 2008, 10:12 AM
CatherineEarnshaw
Aug 1 2008, 10:37 AM
ladyofthelake
Aug 1 2008, 06:58 AM
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Aug 1 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 1 2008, 01:05 AM
Drake's interviews have gotten weird since the coma and the whole real life fan incident but that Storms/Braun comparison is weird, if only because they played completely different roles and I can't even see how one can compare their acting styles, regardless of talent.

Whatever the case, sorry to see her go. Tamara will be missed and I do hope she returns some day.

I do like the way she leaves as it will leave John crushed and will make it hard for him to trust in a way. It leaves him in a volatile state just as Stefano returns. Good stuff.

I also want to add that Drake owes alot to Dee. It was the J&M pairing that really got his career going and put him in a situation where he could take off as an actor and character. I think Dee did to Drake what other beloved characters and their portrayers did for Dee in the 70's. By way of interacting with her and being in story and paired with her, he became big and his role went from a short-term gig to long-term, much like Dee's did thanks to those around her and the stories that were going on. I think Dee carried the pairing early on but in the 90's it was pretty equal as they both did their part. I do think at least Drake wants to try out other pairings, which is obvious from the Jate and Java pushing. I think Dee kind of just goes with the flow, which is both a good and a bad thing. I do think Drake is ok with J&M because he knows about the fans and all but I do think he's sick of it. I can see why he would. Actors want to be challenged and are always looking for something fresh.
I feel for actors that are bored with daytime, and working in a medium where they play the same character. If they want to do something different they should go find work in theater or prime time or movies. Like it or not, daytime is unique and the actors who thrive in it know this. Drake has thrived in daytime, but if he's bored now, he should find other avenues to explore instead of expecting his fans to embrace this new character and forget the real John. I just don't find nuJohn appealing in any way.
Are you forgetting all the DRAKE fans who LOVE this new character? All the fans who were meh about John who LOVE Jawn?
Once again, you can't sum up the feelings of ALL his fans, because it's been pretty obvious there are Drake fans who don't feel the same way you do. And to say that maybe he needs to find a new job just because he's enjoying what he has now and you don't? I wonder which fans wanted him back after John's "death", but only on their terms.
It bugs me when the actors and their feelings are not taken into consideration. To hell with Drake and his personal feelings about his job! :huh:
OK, off my soapbox again.
Why should fans care what the actors want??

For PhoenixRising05:

First of all Drake owes NOTHING to Deidre Hall. The only person he owes is the casting director that saw some thing great in him when he went for the job interview. Obviously, it is all about Drake because Deidre was paired up leading men before Drake came on. Her pairing up with those men never came close to the pairing up with Drake. John and Marlena had six good months together, then Deidre left Days for 5 years. In that time Drake and Days soared and moved on without her.
Deidre actually had a lot to say who was cast opposite her. Drake has said so himself. One of the bigwigs thought he gave a poor test but another one said that the chemistry would win out.

Besides, Drake has never been part of another supercouple. He even admitted that he was afraid of being fired before Deidre came back because the Staci/Drake pairing hadn't been going over.

Still, I agree that Drake's staying power has a lot to do with Drake, just like Deidre's staying power has a lot to do with Deidre.
I found some interesting stuff about that on Drakelicious' website. These are comments from Drake and Staci Greason back in 1991:

At no time did Hogestyn ever think he might be out of a job. "Actually, I'd wondered about that (very thing) a couple of months earlier," the actor admits. For most of the first half of 1991, Hogestyn and his onscreen partner, Staci Greason (Isabella Toscano), were on the back-burner. He points to the Cruise of Deception as the last time they had a major storyline. "We stayed on the ship; we went down with it," he declares ruefully.


"We were doing two days a week. You know, DAYS has got a great network. I don't know what they have, but boy, they've got flies on the walls somewhere to find out information. Word was they had run out of story for Roman and things might be changing. I inquired and they said no. Fortunately, this story came along. I'm thanking my lucky stars the producers could get together with Wayne and Deidre to spin me off into a different area." He and Greason never discussed possible repercussions. "At the point (Northrop and Hall) were coming back, we thought, 'This can only help us.'"


Staci Greason agrees with her co-star's assessment: "I was excited. Our characters were pretty lame. Drake and I were hoping for some kind of life for our storyline. We were finally going back to work. I felt like I was an over-paid extra at a party scene. This feels good." She thinks Hogestyn's character has been freed from being locked into the cop/father mold and has more options.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

ladyofthelake
Aug 3 2008, 04:11 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 03:36 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 02:49 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
I completely disagree. I think they went wrong by bringing on a new character and shoving her down the audience's throats. She was the center of that Payla story... I don't know how it could even be called a Payla story since it was mostly about Ava kidnapping Hope. But really it was an AVA story. Then that did nothing for the ratings because the audience was expected to care about Ava and nobody did. So because the press and some fans raved about the actress, they decided to keep her around and shove her into another story for no good reason. There was already enough conflict in the J&M story... but they decided to eliminate Marlena and bring on AVA and make it the story all about JAWN the jerk and his little mobster girl friend. They even had to rewrite the character to put her in the story, since they spent time trying to redeem her and have her move on from married men and being pathetic. I don't care who told tptb or TB that she was well received and a big hit, but she sure didn't do anything for the ratings. Again, it's a soap rule... you don't bring on a new character and center the show around her and expect the audience to care.

And I didn't say the actress was a waste, I said the character was a waste. I didn't even hate Ava. I just thought she was pointless and a waste of time. Interesting that you somehow think J&M fans didn't think she was a good actress, yet you think S&K fans did? How on earth can you make such a statement? Have you polled every J&M fan? Every S&K fan? You seem to want to disparage J&M fans somehow.

While the ratings did not go up during the Ava/Steve/Kayla story, they didn't go down. They didn't go down until June and I think the ratings downturn has more to do with a lack of direction amongst stories (which goes back to Days being hesitant over where to go because of fanbases but I digress) and also because barely anything was happening. It wasn't exciting at all. At least during the Ava story some were curious as to the Steve/Ava history and what would happen.

I also disagree about the story not being a Steve/Kayla story. It delved into Steve's past and that affects them and their future so it was just as much as Steve/Kayla story as it was a Ava story. Ava drove the action of the story and most of the effects were felt by Steve and Kayla, which IMO makes this more their story then Ava's.

I will just disagree about the J&M/Ava stuff because I think it's been argued ad nauseum. I still think it fits nicely with other aspects of the story but I will agree they kind of shoved her in there. I do feel it worked though and I think it would've been much better had the writing for Marlena not been dreadful until recently.

I also never said that J&M fans did not appreciate the actress. I honestly don't know if they did, which is why I didn't mention that J&M fans did. I know Steve and Kayla fans did because I saw posts in many places where they said they liked the actress and her work and even felt they could enjoy the character away from their couple. I never once said I knew for sure J&M fans did not feel the same.

Just for the record, I used to be a J&M fan and got back into them with the new take on John. We have had some very nice posters here on the DR that are J&M fans and they can attest to the fact that I don't go out of my way to bash J&M fans or any fanbase. I just post my view like everyone else. No one has to like it but it is what it is and I have to say some of the reactions in some of the threads the last few days supports my points and the points of others...that fanbases (Not every fan in them, mind you) are helping to kill this show.
You shouldn't have to defend yourself ad naseum, Tim. It's strange how someone is accusing YOU of not being objective, when most posters consider you almost too objective! ;) :D
And, I still don't understand how a few folks can continually blame ratings on one character. That's just silly.

Back to Ava:
Granted, Ava came on canvas in an odd way, to me. But yes, it was still a Steve and Kayla story, originally. It just wasn't handled well, but it did delve more into his past. The resolution, however, should not have had to come about because Stephen Nichols and MAry Beth Evans told someone it was resolved poorly. At least it was, although it was pretty anti-climatic. That issue should have been solved BEFORE Kayla worked to help find out that Ava had been drugged. The llayers to the story weren't there; therefore, this was just a one-dimensional character trying to break up Steve and Kayla rather than a complex character with a complex history.
For me now, I first found Ava more acceptable not as an obstacle to John and Marlena (believe it or not), but because of her developed friendship with Nicole. Tamera Braun did an excellent job of taking a very thinly veiled confused mental case from an abusive background and had her overcome her forced addiction to the point of going out with her head held high. Nicole and Ava's friendship was a high point of viewing for me. The chemistry between Drake Hogestyn and Tamera Braun, for me, was just a bonus.
Like quite a few others, I do enjoy the new dynamic between John and Marlena, as long as Marlena isn't trying to force her wishes on him. (Sorry, back to MArlena). Actually, Deidre Hall is helping me see Marlena's pain when she sees Ava with John. As for Ava....John is the first man to totally accept her for herself, despite her past. For John, Ava is a woman who is not trying to turn him into someone he doesn't necessarily want to be right now. I can see why Drake enjoys this turn of events in acting and why he made the comments he did.
And, I hope, if the opportunity arises, TPTB invite Tamera back, and I hope she accepts. So, maybe she won't come back for John. Whatever. Tamera has taken a little puny, poorly developed role and developed it into something that seems to intrigue many people.
I agree completely :hail: .

I also hate how it always comes back to the ratings as a measurement of something working. There have been shows out there putting out alot of quality and they have nothing in the ratings to so for it. Ratings can not be used to measure quality, especially in this day and age where soaps are lucky to just stay the same regardless of what they do. It seems like only stunts and gimmicks get rewarded nowadays and even that isn't working much anymore.
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CindyJean
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I'm glad she leaving. She's a great actress but I hated the pairing. They are both too freaky. The age thing is no big deal IMO. I mean it's like we are going backwards in our attitude about age in this show lately - what is up with that? It's just a number and all relationships aren't life sentences any way.
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CatherineEarnshaw


PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 12:04 AM
ladyofthelake
Aug 3 2008, 04:11 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 03:36 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 02:49 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
I completely disagree. I think they went wrong by bringing on a new character and shoving her down the audience's throats. She was the center of that Payla story... I don't know how it could even be called a Payla story since it was mostly about Ava kidnapping Hope. But really it was an AVA story. Then that did nothing for the ratings because the audience was expected to care about Ava and nobody did. So because the press and some fans raved about the actress, they decided to keep her around and shove her into another story for no good reason. There was already enough conflict in the J&M story... but they decided to eliminate Marlena and bring on AVA and make it the story all about JAWN the jerk and his little mobster girl friend. They even had to rewrite the character to put her in the story, since they spent time trying to redeem her and have her move on from married men and being pathetic. I don't care who told tptb or TB that she was well received and a big hit, but she sure didn't do anything for the ratings. Again, it's a soap rule... you don't bring on a new character and center the show around her and expect the audience to care.

And I didn't say the actress was a waste, I said the character was a waste. I didn't even hate Ava. I just thought she was pointless and a waste of time. Interesting that you somehow think J&M fans didn't think she was a good actress, yet you think S&K fans did? How on earth can you make such a statement? Have you polled every J&M fan? Every S&K fan? You seem to want to disparage J&M fans somehow.

While the ratings did not go up during the Ava/Steve/Kayla story, they didn't go down. They didn't go down until June and I think the ratings downturn has more to do with a lack of direction amongst stories (which goes back to Days being hesitant over where to go because of fanbases but I digress) and also because barely anything was happening. It wasn't exciting at all. At least during the Ava story some were curious as to the Steve/Ava history and what would happen.

I also disagree about the story not being a Steve/Kayla story. It delved into Steve's past and that affects them and their future so it was just as much as Steve/Kayla story as it was a Ava story. Ava drove the action of the story and most of the effects were felt by Steve and Kayla, which IMO makes this more their story then Ava's.

I will just disagree about the J&M/Ava stuff because I think it's been argued ad nauseum. I still think it fits nicely with other aspects of the story but I will agree they kind of shoved her in there. I do feel it worked though and I think it would've been much better had the writing for Marlena not been dreadful until recently.

I also never said that J&M fans did not appreciate the actress. I honestly don't know if they did, which is why I didn't mention that J&M fans did. I know Steve and Kayla fans did because I saw posts in many places where they said they liked the actress and her work and even felt they could enjoy the character away from their couple. I never once said I knew for sure J&M fans did not feel the same.

Just for the record, I used to be a J&M fan and got back into them with the new take on John. We have had some very nice posters here on the DR that are J&M fans and they can attest to the fact that I don't go out of my way to bash J&M fans or any fanbase. I just post my view like everyone else. No one has to like it but it is what it is and I have to say some of the reactions in some of the threads the last few days supports my points and the points of others...that fanbases (Not every fan in them, mind you) are helping to kill this show.
You shouldn't have to defend yourself ad naseum, Tim. It's strange how someone is accusing YOU of not being objective, when most posters consider you almost too objective! ;) :D
And, I still don't understand how a few folks can continually blame ratings on one character. That's just silly.

Back to Ava:
Granted, Ava came on canvas in an odd way, to me. But yes, it was still a Steve and Kayla story, originally. It just wasn't handled well, but it did delve more into his past. The resolution, however, should not have had to come about because Stephen Nichols and MAry Beth Evans told someone it was resolved poorly. At least it was, although it was pretty anti-climatic. That issue should have been solved BEFORE Kayla worked to help find out that Ava had been drugged. The llayers to the story weren't there; therefore, this was just a one-dimensional character trying to break up Steve and Kayla rather than a complex character with a complex history.
For me now, I first found Ava more acceptable not as an obstacle to John and Marlena (believe it or not), but because of her developed friendship with Nicole. Tamera Braun did an excellent job of taking a very thinly veiled confused mental case from an abusive background and had her overcome her forced addiction to the point of going out with her head held high. Nicole and Ava's friendship was a high point of viewing for me. The chemistry between Drake Hogestyn and Tamera Braun, for me, was just a bonus.
Like quite a few others, I do enjoy the new dynamic between John and Marlena, as long as Marlena isn't trying to force her wishes on him. (Sorry, back to MArlena). Actually, Deidre Hall is helping me see Marlena's pain when she sees Ava with John. As for Ava....John is the first man to totally accept her for herself, despite her past. For John, Ava is a woman who is not trying to turn him into someone he doesn't necessarily want to be right now. I can see why Drake enjoys this turn of events in acting and why he made the comments he did.
And, I hope, if the opportunity arises, TPTB invite Tamera back, and I hope she accepts. So, maybe she won't come back for John. Whatever. Tamera has taken a little puny, poorly developed role and developed it into something that seems to intrigue many people.
I agree completely :hail: .

I also hate how it always comes back to the ratings as a measurement of something working. There have been shows out there putting out alot of quality and they have nothing in the ratings to so for it. Ratings can not be used to measure quality, especially in this day and age where soaps are lucky to just stay the same regardless of what they do. It seems like only stunts and gimmicks get rewarded nowadays and even that isn't working much anymore.
this is a business though and ratings are still the main way to measure how shows stack up.

I love "Mad Men" on AMC, I have no idea what the ratings are, and I don't care

On the other hand, I think days is as bad as it ever was (and that is saying a lot after the last few years) so I am not surprised that the ratings are low. Sometimes there is a reason that the ratings keep dropping.

And I don't think it is the *fanbases* fault either.
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e83talus
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Ava is gone today. Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance! :boobs:

After a two month Days ban in my house, I am back tomorrow with the disappearance of Ava and the Return of The Pheonix! :applause:

Come On Steffy Baby, do me right! :cheers:
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ArizonaDaze
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I respect all posters opinions and their right to watch for only their couple but I find it sad as an original viewer of Days that people tune out because of the direction (or lack of direction) their couple is taking. It would be nice if we were all fans of the show as a whole.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

CatherineEarnshaw
Aug 4 2008, 05:55 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 12:04 AM
ladyofthelake
Aug 3 2008, 04:11 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 03:36 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 02:49 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:16 AM
Glad the topic got back to Ava LOL.

I don't think the character was a waste nor was it stunt casting. Days wanted a story for Steve and Kayla and SN pushed for Tamara to be considered. It wasn't like they dreamed up the role for her.

I think the Ava story was to be nothing more then a strike story but she was liked by the cast and crew and, believe it or not, she was liked by many fans. Plus, she already had many fans to begin with. Where they went wrong though was quickly tying up her current story with Steve and Kayla and not climaxing it properly, meaning they had to backtrack later and attempt to fix it. Plus, the whole father angle wasn't played long enough but I guess with her only being here for 6 months you can't do much. I think Days felt they could convince her to stay if they got her out of the Steve/Kayla thing and she did seem happier and acquired even more fans once tossed in with John and Nicole. I don't expect John and Marlena fans to like her or Steve and Kayla fans (who actually appreciated her acting talent at least) to like the character. That's fine but to call her a waste I just can't agree with. She's a talented actress and somehow the character, despite everything, ended up being pretty good and that says alot as new characters usually take forever to amount to anything on Days. It's a shame she is leaving because she had major potential and the show could use more people outside of the main families as enough incest is going on as it is. I hope she returns someday.
I completely disagree. I think they went wrong by bringing on a new character and shoving her down the audience's throats. She was the center of that Payla story... I don't know how it could even be called a Payla story since it was mostly about Ava kidnapping Hope. But really it was an AVA story. Then that did nothing for the ratings because the audience was expected to care about Ava and nobody did. So because the press and some fans raved about the actress, they decided to keep her around and shove her into another story for no good reason. There was already enough conflict in the J&M story... but they decided to eliminate Marlena and bring on AVA and make it the story all about JAWN the jerk and his little mobster girl friend. They even had to rewrite the character to put her in the story, since they spent time trying to redeem her and have her move on from married men and being pathetic. I don't care who told tptb or TB that she was well received and a big hit, but she sure didn't do anything for the ratings. Again, it's a soap rule... you don't bring on a new character and center the show around her and expect the audience to care.

And I didn't say the actress was a waste, I said the character was a waste. I didn't even hate Ava. I just thought she was pointless and a waste of time. Interesting that you somehow think J&M fans didn't think she was a good actress, yet you think S&K fans did? How on earth can you make such a statement? Have you polled every J&M fan? Every S&K fan? You seem to want to disparage J&M fans somehow.

While the ratings did not go up during the Ava/Steve/Kayla story, they didn't go down. They didn't go down until June and I think the ratings downturn has more to do with a lack of direction amongst stories (which goes back to Days being hesitant over where to go because of fanbases but I digress) and also because barely anything was happening. It wasn't exciting at all. At least during the Ava story some were curious as to the Steve/Ava history and what would happen.

I also disagree about the story not being a Steve/Kayla story. It delved into Steve's past and that affects them and their future so it was just as much as Steve/Kayla story as it was a Ava story. Ava drove the action of the story and most of the effects were felt by Steve and Kayla, which IMO makes this more their story then Ava's.

I will just disagree about the J&M/Ava stuff because I think it's been argued ad nauseum. I still think it fits nicely with other aspects of the story but I will agree they kind of shoved her in there. I do feel it worked though and I think it would've been much better had the writing for Marlena not been dreadful until recently.

I also never said that J&M fans did not appreciate the actress. I honestly don't know if they did, which is why I didn't mention that J&M fans did. I know Steve and Kayla fans did because I saw posts in many places where they said they liked the actress and her work and even felt they could enjoy the character away from their couple. I never once said I knew for sure J&M fans did not feel the same.

Just for the record, I used to be a J&M fan and got back into them with the new take on John. We have had some very nice posters here on the DR that are J&M fans and they can attest to the fact that I don't go out of my way to bash J&M fans or any fanbase. I just post my view like everyone else. No one has to like it but it is what it is and I have to say some of the reactions in some of the threads the last few days supports my points and the points of others...that fanbases (Not every fan in them, mind you) are helping to kill this show.
You shouldn't have to defend yourself ad naseum, Tim. It's strange how someone is accusing YOU of not being objective, when most posters consider you almost too objective! ;) :D
And, I still don't understand how a few folks can continually blame ratings on one character. That's just silly.

Back to Ava:
Granted, Ava came on canvas in an odd way, to me. But yes, it was still a Steve and Kayla story, originally. It just wasn't handled well, but it did delve more into his past. The resolution, however, should not have had to come about because Stephen Nichols and MAry Beth Evans told someone it was resolved poorly. At least it was, although it was pretty anti-climatic. That issue should have been solved BEFORE Kayla worked to help find out that Ava had been drugged. The llayers to the story weren't there; therefore, this was just a one-dimensional character trying to break up Steve and Kayla rather than a complex character with a complex history.
For me now, I first found Ava more acceptable not as an obstacle to John and Marlena (believe it or not), but because of her developed friendship with Nicole. Tamera Braun did an excellent job of taking a very thinly veiled confused mental case from an abusive background and had her overcome her forced addiction to the point of going out with her head held high. Nicole and Ava's friendship was a high point of viewing for me. The chemistry between Drake Hogestyn and Tamera Braun, for me, was just a bonus.
Like quite a few others, I do enjoy the new dynamic between John and Marlena, as long as Marlena isn't trying to force her wishes on him. (Sorry, back to MArlena). Actually, Deidre Hall is helping me see Marlena's pain when she sees Ava with John. As for Ava....John is the first man to totally accept her for herself, despite her past. For John, Ava is a woman who is not trying to turn him into someone he doesn't necessarily want to be right now. I can see why Drake enjoys this turn of events in acting and why he made the comments he did.
And, I hope, if the opportunity arises, TPTB invite Tamera back, and I hope she accepts. So, maybe she won't come back for John. Whatever. Tamera has taken a little puny, poorly developed role and developed it into something that seems to intrigue many people.
I agree completely :hail: .

I also hate how it always comes back to the ratings as a measurement of something working. There have been shows out there putting out alot of quality and they have nothing in the ratings to so for it. Ratings can not be used to measure quality, especially in this day and age where soaps are lucky to just stay the same regardless of what they do. It seems like only stunts and gimmicks get rewarded nowadays and even that isn't working much anymore.
this is a business though and ratings are still the main way to measure how shows stack up.

I love "Mad Men" on AMC, I have no idea what the ratings are, and I don't care

On the other hand, I think days is as bad as it ever was (and that is saying a lot after the last few years) so I am not surprised that the ratings are low. Sometimes there is a reason that the ratings keep dropping.

And I don't think it is the *fanbases* fault either.
So, you use the ratings against Days but then acknowledge that a show of great quality like "Mad Men" doesn't do as well and say the ratings don't matter there. I'm not following you on this, I''m afraid. Sounds a bit like a double standard.

I'm not saying Days isn't responsible at all. Hell, the show hasn't been very exciting since March and the ratings are more driven by action and events then anything else. The worst thing you can be in today's ratings climate is boring.

I just don't think ratings measure quality. I've felt that way going back to the days when Days was in 2nd in HH and doing really well. However, like you said, it's still a business. It just sickens me to think so many shows are being cancelled because of a system that in no way accurately represents quality.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

ArizonaDaze
Aug 4 2008, 11:57 AM
I respect all posters opinions and their right to watch for only their couple but I find it sad as an original viewer of Days that people tune out because of the direction (or lack of direction) their couple is taking. It would be nice if we were all fans of the show as a whole.
Amen! :hail: .
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JustJo
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Give me a decent show on the whole and I'll be a fan of the whole. For many years I was a fan of the whole (or most of it). Now I find the whole boring, disjointed, and a turn off. I think many fans of the show feel the same way... not just fan bases.
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