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Days not pleasing its audience
Topic Started: Aug 2 2008, 09:49 AM (4,147 Views)
aimees76
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Steve Frame
Aug 2 2008, 02:35 PM
Sindacco
Aug 2 2008, 01:02 PM
So you want the show to tell you who or what to root for instead of deciding that for yourself.
I can't speak for who that was directed to, but I can speak for myself.

Many times in my 38 years of watching soap operas story has dictated who I root for. I for one do not get stuck on one character and root for them no matter what - never have and never will. I don't even pick one type of character and always root for them.

Direction of story and so forth do that for me. That is what being a fan of the whole show means. I have always been a fan of Sami and even though I didn't root for her many times, I still enjoyed her. But the direction of the way she has been written last year and even some this year have ruined the character for me. I cannot root for the whiny little wimpy Sami at all.

Often times characters do things that are inexcusable - even characters I have rooted for in the past. I was a big EJ fan until he raped Sami. That caused me to no longer root for him. I still like James Scott, but the direction of the story caused me not to root for the character.

I am not a fan who will make excuses for my fave. I deal with the writing as it is and that is all I can deal with. I hate when a fan will justify what their favorite is doing by saying well that is the way he is being written right now. It leaves me going WTF because it is a soap opera and the way the character is being written is how he is - it is there now - it is part of that character's history now and it is what we have to deal with - it is what is on screen.
:applause: :applause: :applause:
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Sindacco
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ginababe
Aug 2 2008, 03:01 PM
Sindacco
Aug 2 2008, 01:02 PM
So you want the show to tell you who or what to root for instead of deciding that for yourself.
Where in my post did I say that? I obviously am one that choses to root for who I like not who I should like, but by direction I mean that there needs to be some sense for the audience of where the story is going. With no direction or lack of direction interest in that story wanes because yes, we become indifferent to the characters because we no longer know what to "root" for. That is what I meant.
You didn't, that's why I asked.
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Sindacco
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CatherineEarnshaw
Aug 2 2008, 05:45 PM
Sindacco
Aug 2 2008, 12:43 PM
CatherineEarnshaw
Aug 2 2008, 09:49 AM
Since then, the characters seem to change for the exigencies of the plot. Nicole is a prime example. She starts out good; then with no explantion, she turns bad.

Then, her character blows in the wind over the next few years as the plot dictates. I find it hard to care about her (or any character) when their behavior isn't based in their history.
You obviously haven't paid attention to Nicole's history.
I have though.
Then why would you say such a thing?
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Jiggs
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Excellent post, CE! Days has lost faith with most viewers. Why believe what you see today when you don't know if it will change the next day? Soaps are suppose to be consistent and about character continuity.
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OneBadKitty
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IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

You saved me the trouble of yet another long post. Thanks OBK :hail: .

Seriously, it's so hard to please an audience when it's so divided. So many different people want so many different things. Until Days grasps the fact that no matter who writes and what they do they can't please everyone (hell, half the audience will be upset no matter what they do), they will be in this constant cycle of backtracking and dumping stories, leading to more inconsistency. The show's already a watered down shell of itself and it's only going to get worse until Days commits to just trying to do what is right for the show, which is telling good dramatic stories. They need to take risks and they can't worry about pleasing everyone. Just try to please who you can and no more backtracking. If something fails, don't just drop it. Figure out a way to use it to further another story or something and then move on. Days just needs to do what is best for the show as a whole and just needs to worry about telling good stories, which has always been the secret to success for any show and Days is no exception.
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CatherineEarnshaw


Sindacco
Aug 2 2008, 06:21 PM
ginababe
Aug 2 2008, 03:01 PM
Sindacco
Aug 2 2008, 01:02 PM
So you want the show to tell you who or what to root for instead of deciding that for yourself.
Where in my post did I say that? I obviously am one that choses to root for who I like not who I should like, but by direction I mean that there needs to be some sense for the audience of where the story is going. With no direction or lack of direction interest in that story wanes because yes, we become indifferent to the characters because we no longer know what to "root" for. That is what I meant.
You didn't, that's why I asked.
I will just respond what you said to imiss and jiggs in another thread.
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DolceDiMera
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OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

I agree. The Daniel and Chelsea storyline is an excellent example. There was overall a pretty negative response (not to say that they don't have their fans, because they do) so all of a sudden they try to concoct a Daniel and Kate affair that happened off screen and it seems like now Date are supposed to be the rooting couple with Chelsea being written more as an interloper. For the last several months they've been trying to sell us Daniel and Chelsea as the new hot romantic couple, and since id didn't work they want to now throw Kate in the mix? Doesn't work for me. The lack of continuity in the writing makes me completely uninterested in both couples (that, and the fact that the chem in each pairing is not that great).
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DolceDiMera
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Sindacco
Aug 2 2008, 01:02 PM
So you want the show to tell you who or what to root for instead of deciding that for yourself.
The one instance where they made it clear whom viewers should root for and for whom they shouldn't root was Chloe versus Morgan in the 'triangle' with Philip. They trashed Chloe and propped Morgan as the sweet, innocent, feisty fake Texan. I hate that Chloe/Phloe was the one character/fanbase they decided that they could stomp all over. Even with Jarlena, you know that they'll end up back together somehow, and their interloper is leaving. They throw bones all of the time to Lumi,Ejami, Ejole.... uhhhhh Chlocas(?) With Phloe, they just totally ended them it seems!
Edited by DolceDiMera, Aug 3 2008, 12:45 PM.
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imissstefano
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Sindacco
Aug 2 2008, 06:24 PM
CatherineEarnshaw
Aug 2 2008, 05:45 PM
Sindacco
Aug 2 2008, 12:43 PM
CatherineEarnshaw
Aug 2 2008, 09:49 AM
Since then, the characters seem to change for the exigencies of the plot. Nicole is a prime example. She starts out good; then with no explantion, she turns bad.

Then, her character blows in the wind over the next few years as the plot dictates. I find it hard to care about her (or any character) when their behavior isn't based in their history.
You obviously haven't paid attention to Nicole's history.
I have though.
Then why would you say such a thing?
Not CE here, but I'd venture to guess that the reason he said such a thing was because he knew Nicole's history on the show. I mean, that's just common sense allowing me to arrive at that conclusion, but I understand that not everyone operates under the commom sense ideology, right Sindy?
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:28 AM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

You saved me the trouble of yet another long post. Thanks OBK :hail: .

Seriously, it's so hard to please an audience when it's so divided. So many different people want so many different things. Until Days grasps the fact that no matter who writes and what they do they can't please everyone (hell, half the audience will be upset no matter what they do), they will be in this constant cycle of backtracking and dumping stories, leading to more inconsistency. The show's already a watered down shell of itself and it's only going to get worse until Days commits to just trying to do what is right for the show, which is telling good dramatic stories. They need to take risks and they can't worry about pleasing everyone. Just try to please who you can and no more backtracking. If something fails, don't just drop it. Figure out a way to use it to further another story or something and then move on. Days just needs to do what is best for the show as a whole and just needs to worry about telling good stories, which has always been the secret to success for any show and Days is no exception.
LOL. Same song, different verse, and I still agree with you and OBK. I have to chuckle, though, at those who are the most defensive on this. Seems like a couple of people here are hitting a nerve, and good for the nerve-hitters!! I also have to chuckle at fans who claim they'll call their favorites on their shit, but they don't. I know there are some who do, and I totally respect those fans who are able to be realistic. The ones I cannot respect come up with excuses for their favorites and then claim they're objective. Not naming any names nor fanbases. Every fanbase has them, even the ones I used to claim membership to. That's why I swear off fanbases and allegience to any characters. The tides change.
Days catering to the whines of the fans is bad. But what's just as bad are the fans who feel they are DUE something. They're due a good story. They're not necessarily due a payoff for their characters. It's a soap. Give me a good story, even if my favorites break up. Life goes on. Write a good story (which, yes, hasn't been happening for too many characters) and sacrifice my favorites, if necessary, for the good and integrity of the show. I owe THEM the patience to wait things out and see where it takes me. If it takes me somewhere I don't want to go, I FRIGGIN' stop watching or turn to other storylines.
Hey, I can do it. I love Hope, but I wanted to slap her silly when she did stupid stuff like giving Shawn her credit card, for example. I never hesitated to say that. I love Bo, but when he kept falling for Billie's needy demeanor, I wanted to slap him silly. I really liked Mimi, but I would scream at her 'TELL HIM ALREADY!!!" and had no problems saying that. I love Philip, but have no problems telling him he's an idiot for falling for Chloe (because I don't like Chloe).
I also had no problem giving up on a once favorite character when they finally got to be too much. Marlena is one of those characters. Sami could fast become another one. I hated Mimi at one time. I have no problem admitting a once hated character could become a favorite. Belle became that before she was written off. I liked EJ, then was disgusted with him with the EVENT, tried to tolerate him, then was disgusted when he was jammed down my throat by both the show (by his canonization and by radical fans), and now I'm enjoying the writing for him.
And, yeah, I have to chuckle when people blame bad things and reactions of their favorites on the writing. Uh, yeah!! It's the writing for EVERYONE. It's a poor soap writer who makes everyone perfect, because we all have flaws. It'd be stupid to write a character who didn't make mistakes. You can love a character and dislike what he or she does, same as people that you love in real life.
Dang, I have got to find something else to do while I recover from surgery or I'll get in trouble again!!!! :tounge: By the way, I'm speaking in general terms. If you think I'm pointing this at you, well, who knows? But, it's easier to speak in generalizations, like Tim says. I realize there are realistic people in all fanbases to whom none of this applies, and I'm sorry if you feel you got swept up in the net of condemnation. It wasn't meant to be.
Edited by ladyofthelake, Aug 3 2008, 01:44 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

ladyofthelake
Aug 3 2008, 01:41 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 01:28 AM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

You saved me the trouble of yet another long post. Thanks OBK :hail: .

Seriously, it's so hard to please an audience when it's so divided. So many different people want so many different things. Until Days grasps the fact that no matter who writes and what they do they can't please everyone (hell, half the audience will be upset no matter what they do), they will be in this constant cycle of backtracking and dumping stories, leading to more inconsistency. The show's already a watered down shell of itself and it's only going to get worse until Days commits to just trying to do what is right for the show, which is telling good dramatic stories. They need to take risks and they can't worry about pleasing everyone. Just try to please who you can and no more backtracking. If something fails, don't just drop it. Figure out a way to use it to further another story or something and then move on. Days just needs to do what is best for the show as a whole and just needs to worry about telling good stories, which has always been the secret to success for any show and Days is no exception.
LOL. Same song, different verse, and I still agree with you and OBK. I have to chuckle, though, at those who are the most defensive on this. Seems like a couple of people here are hitting a nerve, and good for the nerve-hitters!! I also have to chuckle at fans who claim they'll call their favorites on their shit, but they don't. I know there are some who do, and I totally respect those fans who are able to be realistic. The ones I cannot respect come up with excuses for their favorites and then claim they're objective. Not naming any names nor fanbases. Every fanbase has them, even the ones I used to claim membership to. That's why I swear off fanbases and allegience to any characters. The tides change.
Days catering to the whines of the fans is bad. But what's just as bad are the fans who feel they are DUE something. They're due a good story. They're not necessarily due a payoff for their characters. It's a soap. Give me a good story, even if my favorites break up. Life goes on. Write a good story (which, yes, hasn't been happening for too many characters) and sacrifice my favorites, if necessary, for the good and integrity of the show. I owe THEM the patience to wait things out and see where it takes me. If it takes me somewhere I don't want to go, I FRIGGIN' stop watching or turn to other storylines.
Hey, I can do it. I love Hope, but I wanted to slap her silly when she did stupid stuff like giving Shawn her credit card, for example. I never hesitated to say that. I love Bo, but when he kept falling for Billie's needy demeanor, I wanted to slap him silly. I really liked Mimi, but I would scream at her 'TELL HIM ALREADY!!!" and had no problems saying that. I love Philip, but have no problems telling him he's an idiot for falling for Chloe (because I don't like Chloe).
I also had no problem giving up on a once favorite character when they finally got to be too much. Marlena is one of those characters. Sami could fast become another one. I hated Mimi at one time. I have no problem admitting a once hated character could become a favorite. Belle became that before she was written off. I liked EJ, then was disgusted with him with the EVENT, tried to tolerate him, then was disgusted when he was jammed down my throat by both the show (by his canonization and by radical fans), and now I'm enjoying the writing for him.
And, yeah, I have to chuckle when people blame bad things and reactions of their favorites on the writing. Uh, yeah!! It's the writing for EVERYONE. It's a poor soap writer who makes everyone perfect, because we all have flaws. It'd be stupid to write a character who didn't make mistakes. You can love a character and dislike what he or she does, same as people that you love in real life.
Dang, I have got to find something else to do while I recover from surgery or I'll get in trouble again!!!! :tounge: By the way, I'm speaking in general terms. If you think I'm pointing this at you, well, who knows? But, it's easier to speak in generalizations, like Tim says. I realize there are realistic people in all fanbases to whom none of this applies, and I'm sorry if you feel you got swept up in the net of condemnation. It wasn't meant to be.
Flawless post, ladyofthelake :hail: .
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Jiggs
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OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
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sungrey


Oh good, another excuse to trash Reilly. :)

No, just kidding. I wanted to point out an obvious example... when JER returned in 2003, Sami instantly went back to hating John for what he did to Roman and Marlena. Never mind she'd advanced long past that stage with the previous writers.
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JustJo
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I may be totally off on this... but, I don't think the confusion and lack of direction in the writing comes from listening to the fans. I think it comes from the head writers and their staff and Ted Corday. I think they lack vision and direction. :'(
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
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hops
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JustJo
Aug 3 2008, 11:56 PM
I may be totally off on this... but, I don't think the confusion and lack of direction in the writing comes from listening to the fans. I think it comes from the head writers and their staff and Ted Corday. I think they lack vision and direction. :'(
I totally agree.
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hops
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Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
and as the audience all we can do is react. Some turn the show off for good, never to return, some hang on because they have favourites who they will watch no matter what (because as a general fan of other shows that I have stopped watching I know I wouldn't still be interested in Days if John and Marlena were not still around) and some watch out of habit. I don't think it is as simple as blaming fans. And if they cater to fans so much, how come I'm always waiting for something good to show up on screen. There is always potential at the beginning of stories, but the execution always falls short. It takes a combination of a good story and the right characters/actors in those roles. It's a delicate balance. I just don't think it's as black and white as some would have us believe.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

I don't think anyone is pinning all the blame on fans or fanbases but they are a part of it.

The thing is as a result of Days changing it's storytelling style so many times in the last 20 or so years, the show now has so many different fans who want different things. That and they often pit fanbases against each other so you have fans wanting different things there too. The result is what we are seeing now. Everytime Days acts it makes one group angry and one or more groups upset so it acts to rectify their mistake with the upset group or groups and that action angers another group and then Days acts again to rectify that but angers someone else. It's gotten progressively worse over time and now you see it all the time, almost on a monthly basis. The stories change direction so much they give you whiplash. Things get dropped because Corday panics and is afraid to lose fans, which is not the answer because dropping things makes the fan feel like an idiot. The show is just a watered down mess now because of it and it will never stop until the show realizes it can't please everyone and until some fans accept the fact that someone has to lose. Not everyone can be happy.
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KristianFanForever
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Shove your crappy show where the sun don't shine, Corday!

Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
But vengeful bitch Marlena losing her marbles after John's over the top "death" drew in the crowd? GMAFB.
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