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Days not pleasing its audience
Topic Started: Aug 2 2008, 09:49 AM (4,215 Views)
Jiggs
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PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
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Jiggs
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PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 01:03 AM
I don't think anyone is pinning all the blame on fans or fanbases but they are a part of it.

The thing is as a result of Days changing it's storytelling style so many times in the last 20 or so years, the show now has so many different fans who want different things. That and they often pit fanbases against each other so you have fans wanting different things there too. The result is what we are seeing now. Everytime Days acts it makes one group angry and one or more groups upset so it acts to rectify their mistake with the upset group or groups and that action angers another group and then Days acts again to rectify that but angers someone else. It's gotten progressively worse over time and now you see it all the time, almost on a monthly basis. The stories change direction so much they give you whiplash. Things get dropped because Corday panics and is afraid to lose fans, which is not the answer because dropping things makes the fan feel like an idiot. The show is just a watered down mess now because of it and it will never stop until the show realizes it can't please everyone and until some fans accept the fact that someone has to lose. Not everyone can be happy.
I don't see it that way at all. It seems to me that the show is only interested in making fans angry, no matter who they are or why they watch. Let's take the return of John from the dead. The beginning of that story was pretty damn good, and it had tons of potential. Fans were praising it all over the place. Corday promised it would be a great J&M love story. Drake Hogestyn and Deidre Hall seemed excited about it also. And as the story progressed it became obvious that Dena Higley was pretty clueless about how to write the story and how to move it along. Then it completely stalled and once again she sent Marlena out of town, obviously deciding instead of writing the J&M story with John's memory loss and him being a DiMera as the conflict, to try to recreate some kind of repeat of a Kristen/John/Marlena triangle. Again, the ineptness of the writers is what drives away the viewers, not them changing anything to CATER to anyone.
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KristianFanForever
Aug 4 2008, 01:21 AM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
But vengeful bitch Marlena losing her marbles after John's over the top "death" drew in the crowd? GMAFB.
I don't even know what you are talking about. :shrug:
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CindyJean
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I've come to this board for a while, mostly to confirm spoilers. I try to find several places where they are posted, because frankly too many trolls make it miserable for people like me trying to run a legitimate site. I have agreed and not agreed with your opinions, but I've enjoyed reading them. I had to join, however, and comment on this one. I've thought about it in the past and it is probably about time.

I find Days fans to be the biggest problem with the show. Loyalty has gone right out the door for the fickleness of fans who will only watch if things go right for their favorite couples. It's ridiculous. You can't please everyone - and it is impossible to ever do that so it shouldn't be attempted. Just when I am finding things to once again like about the show, after getting right to the edge of not watching after many years, people complain its still bad, the head writer walks off (even though she is persuaded to come back) and Corday seems to be micromanaging a show I've watched on and off for forty years, right into the damned ground. WTF?

Personally I want to see John and Marlena together. I didn't always feel like that. I was watching when she was married to Roman and screwed John in a boardroom while her daughter watched and was scarred for life! I hated them both after that. But eventually I came around. Just like I did with Sami and Ej. The chemistry and performances have been such that this Lucas/Sami fan was converted. These things didn't make me think about not watching. What makes me quit watching is mind control story lines, too many bad guys with no heroes, lies and tricks by the Production team - like Drake being fired - but he wasn't. Story lines that drag on forever bore me out of watching and for a long with Days that is the way it was. I could watch once a week and still know what was happening.

Individual points just aren't salient for me. I don't care if Nicole changes. People change dramatically in real life. I actually never enjoyed Nicole much until now. Oh sure, some of her lines were snarky and fun - but she has depth and personality now. Not everyone hates Daniel and Chelsea - I don't. I thought Chelsea and Nick were a yawn. So, why can't that be my way and the way of whole groups of fans who like this pairing? Why do the vocal whiners think there way is the right way, the only way? I don't think Stephanie and Max are gross - they aren't biologically related - it's like a big SO WHAT to me. I'm not a fan of Philip and Morgan - but I'll endure watching them if I still get to see some of the couples I do like. It's a give an take and although it isn't perfect, some of it isn't that bad.

My main point I guess is that I agree a show "bible" should be kept and every damned head writer they hire every time you turn around should be required to follow it. No more DNA tests changing paternity every few years, no more coming back from the dead - ever again, and no more changing people so dramatically you think they are bi-polar. Then the fans maybe could just sit back and shut up, endure what they don't like, enjoy what they do like and realize they shouldn't be in charge - because frankly that is when the show stinks the worst. I don't want to watch someone else's fantasy all the time.

Oh, one last thing - Kill Kate and I will be happy.=o)


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Tricky
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as a member of a fanbase i wont accept any resposibility for this mess DOOL is in, sure i dont watch when the stories arent good for the characters i like...that doesnt make it my fault or any fanbases fault imo. they should write better for who the majority of fans want to see...i just know there is a way to find out who the majority is in this day and time especially, i will never believe there isnt a way...this isnt brain surgery...its just a soap opera...a soap opera that has my fav characters on it not being written true to character thats why i have been tuning out these past two months. i wont take the blame for horrible writing.
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CatherineEarnshaw


Tricky
Aug 4 2008, 03:51 AM
as a member of a fanbase i wont accept any resposibility for this mess DOOL is in, sure i dont watch when the stories arent good for the characters i like...that doesnt make it my fault or any fanbases fault imo. they should write better for who the majority of fans want to see...i just know there is a way to find out who the majority is in this day and time especially, i will never believe there isnt a way...this isnt brain surgery...its just a soap opera...a soap opera that has my fav characters on it not being written true to character thats why i have been tuning out these past two months. i wont take the blame for horrible writing.
good post Tricky.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
The whole idea of a fan poll is to involve the fans more and I thought it was a clever concept because either way you had major story implications. I also don't consider John being Zack's father playing out like you said because no one even knew it but John, Hope, and Marlena. By the time others, including Bo, learned it, the whole damn thing was changed a month after that. That is caving and tossing a potential storyline that could really deliver good conflict to J&M and B&H out the window. They put nearly two years of buildup into that and it all went for nothing.

I also want to point out one line in your post. "I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan." That line right there is why I and others look at fanbases as a major issue. Sure, they are not to blame for everything. Not in the least. The fact is the EP is still the reason why the show caves to them in the first place, although I can see why with how fickle SOME fanbases can be. I also want to say once again before someone jumps on me that I'm not saying everyone in a fanbase thinks alike or fits into what I'm talking about. All I'm saying is that for SOME, it's just about the "I." Just like in your post, Jiggs. "I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan." Well, what about the fans out there who were invested in that story and did get something out of it. What about the fans out there that were looking forward to what that story would bring and the conflict it would produce. The same goes for the many other stories over the years that were dropped for this very same reason. Just because YOU and perhaps some others got nothing out of it does not mean no one else did or that no one else was looking forward to seeing the story played out in full.

I don't expect fanbases to take responsibility. I don't think anyone does. I think what I and others are saying is that some have to accept the fact that not everyone can be happy and that there are more people out there that are just looking for a good story and good drama, just like in the old days. Years ago, there was none of this. It was never cemented that a couple would always end up back together. Now, if they don't, it's like WWIII and Days is bombarded with campaigns and feedback about how they could do this to a fanbase or what have you. The issue is that takes away from the unpredictability. That is as big a reason as any for why the ratings went down in the first place. Days is the only show that has an EP that has to always assure fanbases in the show's previews that their couples will be together. That they are the rooting couple. No other show does that and why is that? Because YOUR GIVING AWAY THE DAMN STORY!!! Outside of fanbases, who else can invest in that? I mean, why bother if you already know the outcome of a story? You need some spontaneity. It's part of the journey a story takes you on. It's hard to get into that journey if you already know what is waiting for you at the end. Look at JER's first stint. The reason that worked was because you had no idea if any of the couples would make it through what he put them through. That is what added the "edge of your seat" quality to the stories. Same with the 80's when these couples were just getting together. You knew there was a sense that they could beat anything but, like real life, something could happen to tear them apart. Now, fans know what to expect, regardless of how shitty a writer and story is. That is a problem. If you always expect certain couples to get back together and for everything to be happy, where is the story in that? That is a waste of people's time. That is getting nothing out of a story. There is no impact there. At this point, these couples don't need to deepen their relationship. They've been through enough of that. They don't need to "fall in love all over again" (well, J&M still can because he's different but that is the only reason). We've seen that story a million times. Seriously, if they are so in love WHY IS THAT NECESSARY?

Frankly, some fanbases need to understand that not everyone wants to see romantic adventures and J&M's "sexy time"or whatever. Yes, romance is needed but the time for remaking the 80's is gone. This is a different age now and one of the issues hurting soaps is the fact that they haven't evolved like they did in the 80's and 90's. The soaps changed with the times in those eras but haven't enough in this era. In regards to Days, it's the fans mostly holding them back. Days can't bring in new characters or push new young stars because of the dilemma they created. Days created this fanbase issue, It milked it and now the very same fanbases it created that were so important to the show's success in the 80's and 90's are now a major issue for the show. Now the show can't do what it did in the 70's and 80's, which was bring new characters to the forefront. 20 years ago, Bo and Hope were in the same situation as a Shawn or Belle or (I know how horrible this is but I'm making a point) Stephanie and Max. You have to keep the cycle going because eventually you run out of material and that is the problem at Days. Too many characters that have been through pretty much everything you can put them through and then when you try to make fans happy on top of that, there isn't much left to give them that would be a ratings success and somehow please fanbases. That is why the show needed to have a changing of the guard alot sooner then this but it never took the risk and now I think it just can't happen.

Anyone that doesn't think Days caters to the fanbases is in denial and I have no hesitation at all about saying that. Hell, I don't expect some of the posters in this thread to acknowledge that is the case and that's fine but that doesn't help the show. They aren't the only reason for this. Like I said, Days itself created them and Days itself has made all the decisions so most of the blame falls on Corday and the writers. However, fanbases are still a part of the problem. I guess this is just something many of us will have to agree to disagree on or we will be at this for days :laugh: .
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madelinehawaii


Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
it seems to me that you and Phoenix are talking about two completely different things...Phoenix I believe is talking about dramatic potential which the writers can use to create new stories and you are talking about payoff and whether TPTB are meeting it out fairly or based on what you believe the fans want. I have no reason to believe the majority of the fans wouldn't agree with you (I don't think so necessarily but I don't believe we have an accurate way to measure that) but I have a difficult time accepting that someone who wants to know the following...

I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.


is seriously discussing her ability to be able to recognize a good story if it doesn't fit her criteria which seems limited to how you view your favorites and THAT is the problem with fanbases IMO. Not that they exist but they are trying to dicate what is a 'good' story and what is not based on payoff instead of drama for their particular couple. Sometimes what we're not expecting or even think we'll like is the thing that can create new possibilities. That's the only thing that keeps me watching this show.
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DolceDiMera
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Tricky
Aug 4 2008, 03:51 AM
as a member of a fanbase i wont accept any resposibility for this mess DOOL is in, sure i dont watch when the stories arent good for the characters i like...that doesnt make it my fault or any fanbases fault imo. they should write better for who the majority of fans want to see...i just know there is a way to find out who the majority is in this day and time especially, i will never believe there isnt a way...this isnt brain surgery...its just a soap opera...a soap opera that has my fav characters on it not being written true to character thats why i have been tuning out these past two months. i wont take the blame for horrible writing.
Only two months? Aren't you a Sami fan?
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Tricky
Aug 4 2008, 03:51 AM
as a member of a fanbase i wont accept any resposibility for this mess DOOL is in, sure i dont watch when the stories arent good for the characters i like...that doesnt make it my fault or any fanbases fault imo. they should write better for who the majority of fans want to see...i just know there is a way to find out who the majority is in this day and time especially, i will never believe there isnt a way...this isnt brain surgery...its just a soap opera...a soap opera that has my fav characters on it not being written true to character thats why i have been tuning out these past two months. i wont take the blame for horrible writing.
Maybe you tried calling the comment line one too many times on speed dial.... :D

I honestly don't think you're getting the point. The crappy writing, in part, has to do with trying to make fanbases happy. Ejami fanbase included. Your signature itself indicates that you're pretty adament about wanting your way,hell or high water. So, if TPTB wants to make all EJami fans happy, then Lumi fans will be unhappy. Then they try to make Lumi fans happy, and Ejami fans aren't happy. SEE THE PATTERN????
Edited by ladyofthelake, Aug 4 2008, 01:38 PM.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

madelinehawaii
Aug 4 2008, 12:16 PM
Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
it seems to me that you and Phoenix are talking about two completely different things...Phoenix I believe is talking about dramatic potential which the writers can use to create new stories and you are talking about payoff and whether TPTB are meeting it out fairly or based on what you believe the fans want. I have no reason to believe the majority of the fans wouldn't agree with you (I don't think so necessarily but I don't believe we have an accurate way to measure that) but I have a difficult time accepting that someone who wants to know the following...

I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.


is seriously discussing her ability to be able to recognize a good story if it doesn't fit her criteria which seems limited to how you view your favorites and THAT is the problem with fanbases IMO. Not that they exist but they are trying to dicate what is a 'good' story and what is not based on payoff instead of drama for their particular couple. Sometimes what we're not expecting or even think we'll like is the thing that can create new possibilities. That's the only thing that keeps me watching this show.
Madeline!!! Awesome, awesome, awesome post! Welcome here, and thank you for your great insight!! :hail: :hail:
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Alligato
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^ No. It seems if you are an Ejami fan, you don't care about how spineless and pathetic your main man EJ is, or how psycho crazy, insane, irrational your main girl Sami is, it is just all about them getting together no matter how bad they are.

I also think that if a writer doesn't know how to write a love story, you could take two of the most wonderful actors and pair them and it will still suck...i.e. Santeen.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 11:56 AM
Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
The whole idea of a fan poll is to involve the fans more and I thought it was a clever concept because either way you had major story implications. I also don't consider John being Zack's father playing out like you said because no one even knew it but John, Hope, and Marlena. By the time others, including Bo, learned it, the whole damn thing was changed a month after that. That is caving and tossing a potential storyline that could really deliver good conflict to J&M and B&H out the window. They put nearly two years of buildup into that and it all went for nothing.

I also want to point out one line in your post. "I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan." That line right there is why I and others look at fanbases as a major issue. Sure, they are not to blame for everything. Not in the least. The fact is the EP is still the reason why the show caves to them in the first place, although I can see why with how fickle SOME fanbases can be. I also want to say once again before someone jumps on me that I'm not saying everyone in a fanbase thinks alike or fits into what I'm talking about. All I'm saying is that for SOME, it's just about the "I." Just like in your post, Jiggs. "I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan." Well, what about the fans out there who were invested in that story and did get something out of it. What about the fans out there that were looking forward to what that story would bring and the conflict it would produce. The same goes for the many other stories over the years that were dropped for this very same reason. Just because YOU and perhaps some others got nothing out of it does not mean no one else did or that no one else was looking forward to seeing the story played out in full.

I don't expect fanbases to take responsibility. I don't think anyone does. I think what I and others are saying is that some have to accept the fact that not everyone can be happy and that there are more people out there that are just looking for a good story and good drama, just like in the old days. Years ago, there was none of this. It was never cemented that a couple would always end up back together. Now, if they don't, it's like WWIII and Days is bombarded with campaigns and feedback about how they could do this to a fanbase or what have you. The issue is that takes away from the unpredictability. That is as big a reason as any for why the ratings went down in the first place. Days is the only show that has an EP that has to always assure fanbases in the show's previews that their couples will be together. That they are the rooting couple. No other show does that and why is that? Because YOUR GIVING AWAY THE DAMN STORY!!! Outside of fanbases, who else can invest in that? I mean, why bother if you already know the outcome of a story? You need some spontaneity. It's part of the journey a story takes you on. It's hard to get into that journey if you already know what is waiting for you at the end. Look at JER's first stint. The reason that worked was because you had no idea if any of the couples would make it through what he put them through. That is what added the "edge of your seat" quality to the stories. Same with the 80's when these couples were just getting together. You knew there was a sense that they could beat anything but, like real life, something could happen to tear them apart. Now, fans know what to expect, regardless of how shitty a writer and story is. That is a problem. If you always expect certain couples to get back together and for everything to be happy, where is the story in that? That is a waste of people's time. That is getting nothing out of a story. There is no impact there. At this point, these couples don't need to deepen their relationship. They've been through enough of that. They don't need to "fall in love all over again" (well, J&M still can because he's different but that is the only reason). We've seen that story a million times. Seriously, if they are so in love WHY IS THAT NECESSARY?

Frankly, some fanbases need to understand that not everyone wants to see romantic adventures and J&M's "sexy time"or whatever. Yes, romance is needed but the time for remaking the 80's is gone. This is a different age now and one of the issues hurting soaps is the fact that they haven't evolved like they did in the 80's and 90's. The soaps changed with the times in those eras but haven't enough in this era. In regards to Days, it's the fans mostly holding them back. Days can't bring in new characters or push new young stars because of the dilemma they created. Days created this fanbase issue, It milked it and now the very same fanbases it created that were so important to the show's success in the 80's and 90's are now a major issue for the show. Now the show can't do what it did in the 70's and 80's, which was bring new characters to the forefront. 20 years ago, Bo and Hope were in the same situation as a Shawn or Belle or (I know how horrible this is but I'm making a point) Stephanie and Max. You have to keep the cycle going because eventually you run out of material and that is the problem at Days. Too many characters that have been through pretty much everything you can put them through and then when you try to make fans happy on top of that, there isn't much left to give them that would be a ratings success and somehow please fanbases. That is why the show needed to have a changing of the guard alot sooner then this but it never took the risk and now I think it just can't happen.

Anyone that doesn't think Days caters to the fanbases is in denial and I have no hesitation at all about saying that. Hell, I don't expect some of the posters in this thread to acknowledge that is the case and that's fine but that doesn't help the show. They aren't the only reason for this. Like I said, Days itself created them and Days itself has made all the decisions so most of the blame falls on Corday and the writers. However, fanbases are still a part of the problem. I guess this is just something many of us will have to agree to disagree on or we will be at this for days :laugh: .
Tim, your posts make so much damn sense. I really wish some folks would REALLY read them and get the idea. I honestly don't see why your logic is so hard to understand. I believe, despite your best intentions to describe your honest feelings and input, some are going to have a persecution complex.
I just want to say....attitudes that you have, that I have, and apparently several other people have about radical fanbase reactions and behaviors were NOT created in a vacuum. Certainly I have better things to do with my time than make this stuff up, as I know you do. We must have developed this idea from SOMEWHERE.
And honestly, if you check the Net, there are fanbases for Days that have this reputation. It's not just here. If a group of fans have developed a reputation over the years, hell, isn't there a REASON?
Frankly, the only reason I joined message boards about Days was to have a nice conversation about the episodes and maybe get some spoilers. I honestly thought over-the-top fan reactions were a stereotype. Sad to say, I found out the opposite was true. And, sad to say, the more people sputter and protest when these observations are brought out,the more they are proving our point.
Hell, it's all about ME! ME! The heck with the million or so other watchers.
OK, time for more pain meds... :drunk:
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Alligato
Aug 4 2008, 01:44 PM
^ No. It seems if you are an Ejami fan, you don't care about how spineless and pathetic your main man EJ is, or how psycho crazy, insane, irrational your main girl Sami is, it is just all about them getting together no matter how bad they are.

I also think that if a writer doesn't know how to write a love story, you could take two of the most wonderful actors and pair them and it will still suck...i.e. Santeen.
Force them together beyond all rational thought. Yeah, that makes sense. :D (You notice I'm agreeing with you, Alligato!!
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aimees76
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PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 11:56 AM
Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
The whole idea of a fan poll is to involve the fans more and I thought it was a clever concept because either way you had major story implications. I also don't consider John being Zack's father playing out like you said because no one even knew it but John, Hope, and Marlena. By the time others, including Bo, learned it, the whole damn thing was changed a month after that. That is caving and tossing a potential storyline that could really deliver good conflict to J&M and B&H out the window. They put nearly two years of buildup into that and it all went for nothing.

I also want to point out one line in your post. "I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan." That line right there is why I and others look at fanbases as a major issue. Sure, they are not to blame for everything. Not in the least. The fact is the EP is still the reason why the show caves to them in the first place, although I can see why with how fickle SOME fanbases can be. I also want to say once again before someone jumps on me that I'm not saying everyone in a fanbase thinks alike or fits into what I'm talking about. All I'm saying is that for SOME, it's just about the "I." Just like in your post, Jiggs. "I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan." Well, what about the fans out there who were invested in that story and did get something out of it. What about the fans out there that were looking forward to what that story would bring and the conflict it would produce. The same goes for the many other stories over the years that were dropped for this very same reason. Just because YOU and perhaps some others got nothing out of it does not mean no one else did or that no one else was looking forward to seeing the story played out in full.

I don't expect fanbases to take responsibility. I don't think anyone does. I think what I and others are saying is that some have to accept the fact that not everyone can be happy and that there are more people out there that are just looking for a good story and good drama, just like in the old days. Years ago, there was none of this. It was never cemented that a couple would always end up back together. Now, if they don't, it's like WWIII and Days is bombarded with campaigns and feedback about how they could do this to a fanbase or what have you. The issue is that takes away from the unpredictability. That is as big a reason as any for why the ratings went down in the first place. Days is the only show that has an EP that has to always assure fanbases in the show's previews that their couples will be together. That they are the rooting couple. No other show does that and why is that? Because YOUR GIVING AWAY THE DAMN STORY!!! Outside of fanbases, who else can invest in that? I mean, why bother if you already know the outcome of a story? You need some spontaneity. It's part of the journey a story takes you on. It's hard to get into that journey if you already know what is waiting for you at the end. Look at JER's first stint. The reason that worked was because you had no idea if any of the couples would make it through what he put them through. That is what added the "edge of your seat" quality to the stories. Same with the 80's when these couples were just getting together. You knew there was a sense that they could beat anything but, like real life, something could happen to tear them apart. Now, fans know what to expect, regardless of how shitty a writer and story is. That is a problem. If you always expect certain couples to get back together and for everything to be happy, where is the story in that? That is a waste of people's time. That is getting nothing out of a story. There is no impact there. At this point, these couples don't need to deepen their relationship. They've been through enough of that. They don't need to "fall in love all over again" (well, J&M still can because he's different but that is the only reason). We've seen that story a million times. Seriously, if they are so in love WHY IS THAT NECESSARY?

Frankly, some fanbases need to understand that not everyone wants to see romantic adventures and J&M's "sexy time"or whatever. Yes, romance is needed but the time for remaking the 80's is gone. This is a different age now and one of the issues hurting soaps is the fact that they haven't evolved like they did in the 80's and 90's. The soaps changed with the times in those eras but haven't enough in this era. In regards to Days, it's the fans mostly holding them back. Days can't bring in new characters or push new young stars because of the dilemma they created. Days created this fanbase issue, It milked it and now the very same fanbases it created that were so important to the show's success in the 80's and 90's are now a major issue for the show. Now the show can't do what it did in the 70's and 80's, which was bring new characters to the forefront. 20 years ago, Bo and Hope were in the same situation as a Shawn or Belle or (I know how horrible this is but I'm making a point) Stephanie and Max. You have to keep the cycle going because eventually you run out of material and that is the problem at Days. Too many characters that have been through pretty much everything you can put them through and then when you try to make fans happy on top of that, there isn't much left to give them that would be a ratings success and somehow please fanbases. That is why the show needed to have a changing of the guard alot sooner then this but it never took the risk and now I think it just can't happen.

Anyone that doesn't think Days caters to the fanbases is in denial and I have no hesitation at all about saying that. Hell, I don't expect some of the posters in this thread to acknowledge that is the case and that's fine but that doesn't help the show. They aren't the only reason for this. Like I said, Days itself created them and Days itself has made all the decisions so most of the blame falls on Corday and the writers. However, fanbases are still a part of the problem. I guess this is just something many of us will have to agree to disagree on or we will be at this for days :laugh: .
This is an absolutely fabulous post! :applause:
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Alligato
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ladyofthelake
Aug 4 2008, 01:49 PM
Alligato
Aug 4 2008, 01:44 PM
^ No. It seems if you are an Ejami fan, you don't care about how spineless and pathetic your main man EJ is, or how psycho crazy, insane, irrational your main girl Sami is, it is just all about them getting together no matter how bad they are.

I also think that if a writer doesn't know how to write a love story, you could take two of the most wonderful actors and pair them and it will still suck...i.e. Santeen.
Force them together beyond all rational thought. Yeah, that makes sense. :D (You notice I'm agreeing with you, Alligato!!
Wow! Somebody agrees with me! Thanks, Lady! :)

And Pheonix - that was an excellent post and it can be so gratifying here sometimes to read posts like that and see other people "get it".
And HELL YEA! for this line... "Hell, it's all about ME! ME! The heck with the million or so other watchers." Not sure who you were referring to, but I have sarcastically thought this a few times about some fanbases.

Great debates, y'all. Some fabulous lunch time reading!
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DolceDiMera
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Alligato
Aug 4 2008, 01:44 PM
^ No. It seems if you are an Ejami fan, you don't care about how spineless and pathetic your main man EJ is, or how psycho crazy, insane, irrational your main girl Sami is, it is just all about them getting together no matter how bad they are.

I also think that if a writer doesn't know how to write a love story, you could take two of the most wonderful actors and pair them and it will still suck...i.e. Santeen.
Great post, this is what I was getting at. The emascualtion of EJ to make him redeemed enough for Sami began well over two months ago, his character went under total recostruction under Sheffer. Dena is the one who has been giving him his balls back, so she's been returning the character back to his original essence. I'm not a Sami fan, but I know several of them who say Sami was destroyed at the pen of Higley and Sheffer by being made into a blubbering, wishy washy idiot who slept with her rapist after a ten minute talk, totally OOC for a girl who castrated her last rapist IMO. EJ and Sami were both written totally out of character to try to force that pairing.
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CindyJean
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DolceDiMera
Aug 4 2008, 12:39 PM
Tricky
Aug 4 2008, 03:51 AM
as a member of a fanbase i wont accept any resposibility for this mess DOOL is in, sure i dont watch when the stories arent good for the characters i like...that doesnt make it my fault or any fanbases fault imo. they should write better for who the majority of fans want to see...i just know there is a way to find out who the majority is in this day and time especially, i will never believe there isnt a way...this isnt brain surgery...its just a soap opera...a soap opera that has my fav characters on it not being written true to character thats why i have been tuning out these past two months. i wont take the blame for horrible writing.
Only two months? Aren't you a Sami fan?
Thank you. That is the exact point and Lumi and EJami are the best example because they split the fanbase almost evenly. Someone wins and someone loses and if we are just fans of one couple the show loses. I don't know about anyone else but that isn't the way it used to be. The writing has been better and worse over the years. But never do I remember fans being so biased and so "it's my way or the highway" while watching Days.
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angmc
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Alligato
Aug 4 2008, 01:44 PM
^ No. It seems if you are an Ejami fan, you don't care about how spineless and pathetic your main man EJ is, or how psycho crazy, insane, irrational your main girl Sami is, it is just all about them getting together no matter how bad they are.

I also think that if a writer doesn't know how to write a love story, you could take two of the most wonderful actors and pair them and it will still suck...i.e. Santeen.
Aren't you an EJAmi fan Alligato since you are a member at FL?? aka Mr.Go???

The reason EJ became "spineless and pathetic" is for the non-EJami and non-EJ fans. They had to whitewash him so that the RINR crew would shut up and other fans who didn't like him as he was would accept him. As for the pod-ification of Sami, that was thanks to HS who decided to make Sami a weepy heroine so that Lucas could accept her as his faux-Carrie..
Most EJami fans liked EJ as he was but understood if he was to be accepted by the casual viewer they had to make a change. Don't try to blame the crappy writing on EJami fans, blame it on the writers.

Edited by angmc, Aug 4 2008, 03:04 PM.
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jules


PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 01:03 AM
I don't think anyone is pinning all the blame on fans or fanbases but they are a part of it.

The thing is as a result of Days changing it's storytelling style so many times in the last 20 or so years, the show now has so many different fans who want different things. That and they often pit fanbases against each other so you have fans wanting different things there too. The result is what we are seeing now. Everytime Days acts it makes one group angry and one or more groups upset so it acts to rectify their mistake with the upset group or groups and that action angers another group and then Days acts again to rectify that but angers someone else. It's gotten progressively worse over time and now you see it all the time, almost on a monthly basis. The stories change direction so much they give you whiplash. Things get dropped because Corday panics and is afraid to lose fans, which is not the answer because dropping things makes the fan feel like an idiot. The show is just a watered down mess now because of it and it will never stop until the show realizes it can't please everyone and until some fans accept the fact that someone has to lose. Not everyone can be happy.
Couldn't disagree more with that. I think the chances they have taken with storylines are ones that were destined to fail. In fact, they often continue too long with some. IMO, Days biggest mistake right now is introducing new characters and making them the center of a front burner story. They have done it so much in the past couple of years, that I am getting whiplash from that. Recent examples are the Touch the Sky crowd, Ava, Morgan, and now Melanie. I think we need to get to know them and get invested in them so we can care about what happens to them And in the end, Days needs writers who can author good stories. They are so poorly planned and developed that it's no wonder they've failed.
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