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Days not pleasing its audience
Topic Started: Aug 2 2008, 09:49 AM (3,965 Views)
jules


Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:50 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 01:03 AM
I don't think anyone is pinning all the blame on fans or fanbases but they are a part of it.

The thing is as a result of Days changing it's storytelling style so many times in the last 20 or so years, the show now has so many different fans who want different things. That and they often pit fanbases against each other so you have fans wanting different things there too. The result is what we are seeing now. Everytime Days acts it makes one group angry and one or more groups upset so it acts to rectify their mistake with the upset group or groups and that action angers another group and then Days acts again to rectify that but angers someone else. It's gotten progressively worse over time and now you see it all the time, almost on a monthly basis. The stories change direction so much they give you whiplash. Things get dropped because Corday panics and is afraid to lose fans, which is not the answer because dropping things makes the fan feel like an idiot. The show is just a watered down mess now because of it and it will never stop until the show realizes it can't please everyone and until some fans accept the fact that someone has to lose. Not everyone can be happy.
I don't see it that way at all. It seems to me that the show is only interested in making fans angry, no matter who they are or why they watch. Let's take the return of John from the dead. The beginning of that story was pretty damn good, and it had tons of potential. Fans were praising it all over the place. Corday promised it would be a great J&M love story. Drake Hogestyn and Deidre Hall seemed excited about it also. And as the story progressed it became obvious that Dena Higley was pretty clueless about how to write the story and how to move it along. Then it completely stalled and once again she sent Marlena out of town, obviously deciding instead of writing the J&M story with John's memory loss and him being a DiMera as the conflict, to try to recreate some kind of repeat of a Kristen/John/Marlena triangle. Again, the ineptness of the writers is what drives away the viewers, not them changing anything to CATER to anyone.
Exactly! Great post.
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hops
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Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:50 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 01:03 AM
I don't think anyone is pinning all the blame on fans or fanbases but they are a part of it.

The thing is as a result of Days changing it's storytelling style so many times in the last 20 or so years, the show now has so many different fans who want different things. That and they often pit fanbases against each other so you have fans wanting different things there too. The result is what we are seeing now. Everytime Days acts it makes one group angry and one or more groups upset so it acts to rectify their mistake with the upset group or groups and that action angers another group and then Days acts again to rectify that but angers someone else. It's gotten progressively worse over time and now you see it all the time, almost on a monthly basis. The stories change direction so much they give you whiplash. Things get dropped because Corday panics and is afraid to lose fans, which is not the answer because dropping things makes the fan feel like an idiot. The show is just a watered down mess now because of it and it will never stop until the show realizes it can't please everyone and until some fans accept the fact that someone has to lose. Not everyone can be happy.
I don't see it that way at all. It seems to me that the show is only interested in making fans angry, no matter who they are or why they watch. Let's take the return of John from the dead. The beginning of that story was pretty damn good, and it had tons of potential. Fans were praising it all over the place. Corday promised it would be a great J&M love story. Drake Hogestyn and Deidre Hall seemed excited about it also. And as the story progressed it became obvious that Dena Higley was pretty clueless about how to write the story and how to move it along. Then it completely stalled and once again she sent Marlena out of town, obviously deciding instead of writing the J&M story with John's memory loss and him being a DiMera as the conflict, to try to recreate some kind of repeat of a Kristen/John/Marlena triangle. Again, the ineptness of the writers is what drives away the viewers, not them changing anything to CATER to anyone.
Exactly Jiggs! In fact Ken Corday told fans he wanted them so angry they would throw their sandwiches at the TV. The only problem is, they take it so far that fans turn off the TV. The irony is, fans do still care, and when there is a bit of buzz, tune in to see if things have improved, but ultimately, as this last go round with Higley, fans are left wanting. And I am not sorry, lol, that I blame the writers. Especially the last 5 months. It's been insulting, the flip flopping, events that go no where, backtracking, rewriting, plain lazy writing that has been going on. So no, I think the fans have good taste and know when the writing stinks and turn off the show accordingly.
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Jiggs
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PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 11:56 AM
Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
The whole idea of a fan poll is to involve the fans more and I thought it was a clever concept because either way you had major story implications. I also don't consider John being Zack's father playing out like you said because no one even knew it but John, Hope, and Marlena. By the time others, including Bo, learned it, the whole damn thing was changed a month after that. That is caving and tossing a potential storyline that could really deliver good conflict to J&M and B&H out the window. They put nearly two years of buildup into that and it all went for nothing.

I also want to point out one line in your post. "I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan." That line right there is why I and others look at fanbases as a major issue. Sure, they are not to blame for everything. Not in the least. The fact is the EP is still the reason why the show caves to them in the first place, although I can see why with how fickle SOME fanbases can be. I also want to say once again before someone jumps on me that I'm not saying everyone in a fanbase thinks alike or fits into what I'm talking about. All I'm saying is that for SOME, it's just about the "I." Just like in your post, Jiggs. "I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan." Well, what about the fans out there who were invested in that story and did get something out of it. What about the fans out there that were looking forward to what that story would bring and the conflict it would produce. The same goes for the many other stories over the years that were dropped for this very same reason. Just because YOU and perhaps some others got nothing out of it does not mean no one else did or that no one else was looking forward to seeing the story played out in full.

I don't expect fanbases to take responsibility. I don't think anyone does. I think what I and others are saying is that some have to accept the fact that not everyone can be happy and that there are more people out there that are just looking for a good story and good drama, just like in the old days. Years ago, there was none of this. It was never cemented that a couple would always end up back together. Now, if they don't, it's like WWIII and Days is bombarded with campaigns and feedback about how they could do this to a fanbase or what have you. The issue is that takes away from the unpredictability. That is as big a reason as any for why the ratings went down in the first place. Days is the only show that has an EP that has to always assure fanbases in the show's previews that their couples will be together. That they are the rooting couple. No other show does that and why is that? Because YOUR GIVING AWAY THE DAMN STORY!!! Outside of fanbases, who else can invest in that? I mean, why bother if you already know the outcome of a story? You need some spontaneity. It's part of the journey a story takes you on. It's hard to get into that journey if you already know what is waiting for you at the end. Look at JER's first stint. The reason that worked was because you had no idea if any of the couples would make it through what he put them through. That is what added the "edge of your seat" quality to the stories. Same with the 80's when these couples were just getting together. You knew there was a sense that they could beat anything but, like real life, something could happen to tear them apart. Now, fans know what to expect, regardless of how shitty a writer and story is. That is a problem. If you always expect certain couples to get back together and for everything to be happy, where is the story in that? That is a waste of people's time. That is getting nothing out of a story. There is no impact there. At this point, these couples don't need to deepen their relationship. They've been through enough of that. They don't need to "fall in love all over again" (well, J&M still can because he's different but that is the only reason). We've seen that story a million times. Seriously, if they are so in love WHY IS THAT NECESSARY?

Frankly, some fanbases need to understand that not everyone wants to see romantic adventures and J&M's "sexy time"or whatever. Yes, romance is needed but the time for remaking the 80's is gone. This is a different age now and one of the issues hurting soaps is the fact that they haven't evolved like they did in the 80's and 90's. The soaps changed with the times in those eras but haven't enough in this era. In regards to Days, it's the fans mostly holding them back. Days can't bring in new characters or push new young stars because of the dilemma they created. Days created this fanbase issue, It milked it and now the very same fanbases it created that were so important to the show's success in the 80's and 90's are now a major issue for the show. Now the show can't do what it did in the 70's and 80's, which was bring new characters to the forefront. 20 years ago, Bo and Hope were in the same situation as a Shawn or Belle or (I know how horrible this is but I'm making a point) Stephanie and Max. You have to keep the cycle going because eventually you run out of material and that is the problem at Days. Too many characters that have been through pretty much everything you can put them through and then when you try to make fans happy on top of that, there isn't much left to give them that would be a ratings success and somehow please fanbases. That is why the show needed to have a changing of the guard alot sooner then this but it never took the risk and now I think it just can't happen.

Anyone that doesn't think Days caters to the fanbases is in denial and I have no hesitation at all about saying that. Hell, I don't expect some of the posters in this thread to acknowledge that is the case and that's fine but that doesn't help the show. They aren't the only reason for this. Like I said, Days itself created them and Days itself has made all the decisions so most of the blame falls on Corday and the writers. However, fanbases are still a part of the problem. I guess this is just something many of us will have to agree to disagree on or we will be at this for days :laugh: .
I can't possibly reply to such a long post, so I will let you have the last word... other than I don't think I am in denial about anything and I stand by my comments :)
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Days4Life


Alligato
Aug 4 2008, 02:15 PM
ladyofthelake
Aug 4 2008, 01:49 PM
Alligato
Aug 4 2008, 01:44 PM
^ No. It seems if you are an Ejami fan, you don't care about how spineless and pathetic your main man EJ is, or how psycho crazy, insane, irrational your main girl Sami is, it is just all about them getting together no matter how bad they are.

I also think that if a writer doesn't know how to write a love story, you could take two of the most wonderful actors and pair them and it will still suck...i.e. Santeen.
Force them together beyond all rational thought. Yeah, that makes sense. :D (You notice I'm agreeing with you, Alligato!!
Wow! Somebody agrees with me! Thanks, Lady! :)

And Pheonix - that was an excellent post and it can be so gratifying here sometimes to read posts like that and see other people "get it".
And HELL YEA! for this line... "Hell, it's all about ME! ME! The heck with the million or so other watchers." Not sure who you were referring to, but I have sarcastically thought this a few times about some fanbases.

Great debates, y'all. Some fabulous lunch time reading!
You can't see it, but I am standing here giving you all a standing ovation (and Phoenix, too)!

LadyoftheLake, I'm impressed with how much sense you make while taking pain meds. I had surgery last year and had to take pain meds, and I barely knew my own name.
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thereyougo


Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
The problem with Days now and in the past is that tiic caters to small frictions or they write what they want to see, the PGina story is a perfect example and in the end they suffer for it. The only reason they changed the paternity to Bo and not John was because the show was dying and they knew they had to take John out of the equation. But like you said once they went with Bo, J/M got one balcony scene the wedding in honeymoon thrown together and that was it.
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thereyougo


madelinehawaii
Aug 4 2008, 12:16 PM
Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
it seems to me that you and Phoenix are talking about two completely different things...Phoenix I believe is talking about dramatic potential which the writers can use to create new stories and you are talking about payoff and whether TPTB are meeting it out fairly or based on what you believe the fans want. I have no reason to believe the majority of the fans wouldn't agree with you (I don't think so necessarily but I don't believe we have an accurate way to measure that) but I have a difficult time accepting that someone who wants to know the following...

I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.


is seriously discussing her ability to be able to recognize a good story if it doesn't fit her criteria which seems limited to how you view your favorites and THAT is the problem with fanbases IMO. Not that they exist but they are trying to dicate what is a 'good' story and what is not based on payoff instead of drama for their particular couple. Sometimes what we're not expecting or even think we'll like is the thing that can create new possibilities. That's the only thing that keeps me watching this show.
If the fan bases want they're favorites on 24/7 and the ratings reflect that when the fan bases get what they want they get the ratings, tiic should deliver. A story can be interesting, complex, mysterious and romantic but if the large masses don't find the stories interesting, the writers have failed. We the viewers determine whether or not a story is a success or a failure and until tiic get this basic concept, Days will remain in the bottom in the pit.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Days4Life
Aug 4 2008, 03:31 PM


LadyoftheLake, I'm impressed with how much sense you make while taking pain meds. I had surgery last year and had to take pain meds, and I barely knew my own name.
LOL, I keep saying that in case I DON'T make sense.....Honestly, they're not really high dosage, and my excuse will be running out pretty soon....I will say, though, I love being able to sit on my ass and play on the computer and get waited on hand and foot. That won't last long, though... :unsure: :D
But thank you. Truthfully, that kind of stuff has been on my cyber-mind a long time, and I appreciate having this avenue to let it out. Most boards won't allow that.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

hops
Aug 4 2008, 03:15 PM
Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:50 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 4 2008, 01:03 AM
I don't think anyone is pinning all the blame on fans or fanbases but they are a part of it.

The thing is as a result of Days changing it's storytelling style so many times in the last 20 or so years, the show now has so many different fans who want different things. That and they often pit fanbases against each other so you have fans wanting different things there too. The result is what we are seeing now. Everytime Days acts it makes one group angry and one or more groups upset so it acts to rectify their mistake with the upset group or groups and that action angers another group and then Days acts again to rectify that but angers someone else. It's gotten progressively worse over time and now you see it all the time, almost on a monthly basis. The stories change direction so much they give you whiplash. Things get dropped because Corday panics and is afraid to lose fans, which is not the answer because dropping things makes the fan feel like an idiot. The show is just a watered down mess now because of it and it will never stop until the show realizes it can't please everyone and until some fans accept the fact that someone has to lose. Not everyone can be happy.
I don't see it that way at all. It seems to me that the show is only interested in making fans angry, no matter who they are or why they watch. Let's take the return of John from the dead. The beginning of that story was pretty damn good, and it had tons of potential. Fans were praising it all over the place. Corday promised it would be a great J&M love story. Drake Hogestyn and Deidre Hall seemed excited about it also. And as the story progressed it became obvious that Dena Higley was pretty clueless about how to write the story and how to move it along. Then it completely stalled and once again she sent Marlena out of town, obviously deciding instead of writing the J&M story with John's memory loss and him being a DiMera as the conflict, to try to recreate some kind of repeat of a Kristen/John/Marlena triangle. Again, the ineptness of the writers is what drives away the viewers, not them changing anything to CATER to anyone.
Exactly Jiggs! In fact Ken Corday told fans he wanted them so angry they would throw their sandwiches at the TV. The only problem is, they take it so far that fans turn off the TV. The irony is, fans do still care, and when there is a bit of buzz, tune in to see if things have improved, but ultimately, as this last go round with Higley, fans are left wanting. And I am not sorry, lol, that I blame the writers. Especially the last 5 months. It's been insulting, the flip flopping, events that go no where, backtracking, rewriting, plain lazy writing that has been going on. So no, I think the fans have good taste and know when the writing stinks and turn off the show accordingly.
Are you sure that was Ken Corday or Reilly? That was three years ago! Bologna sandwiches, to be exact. I seem to recall that might have been a Reilly quote. I could be wrong, though. Pain meds, you know. ;) I have a hard time seeing Ken Corday saying in print he wanted to make fans mad. He seems to be more of the "kissing all asses" type.
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Jiggs
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thereyougo
Aug 4 2008, 04:05 PM
The problem with Days now and in the past is that tiic caters to small frictions or they write what they want to see, the PGina story is a perfect example and in the end they suffer for it. The only reason they changed the paternity to Bo and not John was because the show was dying and they knew they had to take John out of the equation. But like you said once they went with Bo, J/M got one balcony scene the wedding in honeymoon thrown together and that was it.


Good point, thereyougo, about how they do seem to cater to small fractions of the audience. They also are notorious for creating conflict for the sake of conflict, instead of conflict that the audience would enjoy.
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thereyougo


CinderAngelkc
Aug 4 2008, 02:37 PM
DolceDiMera
Aug 4 2008, 12:39 PM
Tricky
Aug 4 2008, 03:51 AM
as a member of a fanbase i wont accept any resposibility for this mess DOOL is in, sure i dont watch when the stories arent good for the characters i like...that doesnt make it my fault or any fanbases fault imo. they should write better for who the majority of fans want to see...i just know there is a way to find out who the majority is in this day and time especially, i will never believe there isnt a way...this isnt brain surgery...its just a soap opera...a soap opera that has my fav characters on it not being written true to character thats why i have been tuning out these past two months. i wont take the blame for horrible writing.
Only two months? Aren't you a Sami fan?
Thank you. That is the exact point and Lumi and EJami are the best example because they split the fanbase almost evenly. Someone wins and someone loses and if we are just fans of one couple the show loses. I don't know about anyone else but that isn't the way it used to be. The writing has been better and worse over the years. But never do I remember fans being so biased and so "it's my way or the highway" while watching Days.
Bill Bell, former EP for Y&R during its heyday was asked about his long standing success, and he replied .." the writers takes chances and pushes the envelop, but they always have their hands on the pulse of the audience, when they feel they're losing the pulse of the audience, they take the story/character into a different direction. The problem with Days is tiic don't know how to read the audience, hince they don't know when to turn a story around. They always wait until they've lost hundreds of thousands of viewers before writing what they know their viewers want to see.
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fancyface78
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CatherineEarnshaw
Aug 2 2008, 09:49 AM
The assertion by some seems to be that the audience isn't willing to accept anything new. I am not against anything new, but it has to be grounded in what the history of the show is (if it applies to existing characters); if it is new characters, they have to be connected to existing characters.

The last time I remember a writer grounding a character into a consistent point of view was almost fifteen years ago with Sheri Anderson and James Reilly with Billie and Austin.

Since then, the characters seem to change for the exigencies of the plot. Nicole is a prime example. She starts out good; then with no explantion, she turns bad.

Then, her character blows in the wind over the next few years as the plot dictates. I find it hard to care about her (or any character) when their behavior isn't based in their history.

As for the supercouples, too much history has happened to see them with anyone else for most fans imo. So the trick is to give them new obstacles without trying to assassinate or destroy what made them appealing in the first place. Deidre and Drake, Peter and Kristian and Mary Beth and Stephen are consistently paired (even through the bad wrting) because the fans want it because they love their chemistry.

So soaps should be a blend of new and old but history must be respected. Any self respecting soap writer needs to read Marland about history.

Great post!
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hops
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Look at what Ken Corday said about J&M at the end of March. I would have loved watching that play out on screen.... what happened to that story? That was the story I wanted to see. Maybe that was the original outline and Dena Higley changed it. Whatever it was, just another example of how they do not cater to fans. Instead they slowly made me just turn off my TV. Although I do admit, Dena Higley probably couldn't have written that story anyway, and that is probably why she changed it. It was to complex for her.

I am checking the show out this week. Don't know if it will be written any better, but at least the spoilers sound interesting.

"Speaking of John and Marlena, 'The problem is there's such a chasm between the two of them. She has to stop hoping he will return to the man he was and realize that he's totally changed and start slapping him when he mistreats her. And he, on the other hand, will start to feel like his heart has blood running through it as opposed to ice. They will come a little bit toward each other; she in a tough love way and he in an 'I can't believe I'm feeling this way' way. What will happen is Marlena will fall in love with this new guy as opposed to trying to get the old John back.'"
Edited by hops, Aug 4 2008, 11:33 PM.
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hops
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ladyofthelake
Aug 4 2008, 04:53 PM
Are you sure that was Ken Corday or Reilly? That was three years ago! Bologna sandwiches, to be exact. I seem to recall that might have been a Reilly quote. I could be wrong, though. Pain meds, you know. ;) I have a hard time seeing Ken Corday saying in print he wanted to make fans mad. He seems to be more of the "kissing all asses" type.
It was both of them. A joint interview. They tag teamed the part of about throwing sandwiches.
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CindyJean
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I'm not saying the fans are doing the crappy writing - I'm saying good writing is true to the story laid out and told. It is logical and follows to a predetermined conclusion. Listening to fans is like changing directions every other minute - it gets you no where. Of course they need to have good writers, but they also need to let them write. According to Nelson Branco and other insiders Corday isn't very good at any thing but micromanagement of the story...and NBC throws their two cents in way too often. Ridiculous. Everybody has a job - including the fans. Only the real writers hired to write should write, not actresses, producers, Network execs and especially not fans.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

madelinehawaii
Aug 4 2008, 12:16 PM
Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
it seems to me that you and Phoenix are talking about two completely different things...Phoenix I believe is talking about dramatic potential which the writers can use to create new stories and you are talking about payoff and whether TPTB are meeting it out fairly or based on what you believe the fans want. I have no reason to believe the majority of the fans wouldn't agree with you (I don't think so necessarily but I don't believe we have an accurate way to measure that) but I have a difficult time accepting that someone who wants to know the following...

I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.


is seriously discussing her ability to be able to recognize a good story if it doesn't fit her criteria which seems limited to how you view your favorites and THAT is the problem with fanbases IMO. Not that they exist but they are trying to dicate what is a 'good' story and what is not based on payoff instead of drama for their particular couple. Sometimes what we're not expecting or even think we'll like is the thing that can create new possibilities. That's the only thing that keeps me watching this show.
That is exactly right. Great post. You grasped exactly what I meant. :hail: .

Thanks for the way you put it. I think you said what I wanted to say much better. :smile: .
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Tricky
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ladyofthelake
Aug 4 2008, 01:36 PM
Tricky
Aug 4 2008, 03:51 AM
as a member of a fanbase i wont accept any resposibility for this mess DOOL is in, sure i dont watch when the stories arent good for the characters i like...that doesnt make it my fault or any fanbases fault imo. they should write better for who the majority of fans want to see...i just know there is a way to find out who the majority is in this day and time especially, i will never believe there isnt a way...this isnt brain surgery...its just a soap opera...a soap opera that has my fav characters on it not being written true to character thats why i have been tuning out these past two months. i wont take the blame for horrible writing.
Maybe you tried calling the comment line one too many times on speed dial.... :D

I honestly don't think you're getting the point. The crappy writing, in part, has to do with trying to make fanbases happy. Ejami fanbase included. Your signature itself indicates that you're pretty adament about wanting your way,hell or high water. So, if TPTB wants to make all EJami fans happy, then Lumi fans will be unhappy. Then they try to make Lumi fans happy, and Ejami fans aren't happy. SEE THE PATTERN????
in which case they need to just pick what couple they are gonna write for and cut their losses on whichever viewers they lose. there is no way they wont lose the spurned viewers who lose and dont get their couple no matter what they do so just have it done with. and i have never been rude or obnoxious on the comment line just tell it like it is but very politely you dont catch many bees with vinegar you gotta use honey!
Edited by Tricky, Aug 5 2008, 12:47 AM.
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Tricky
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DolceDiMera
Aug 4 2008, 12:39 PM
Tricky
Aug 4 2008, 03:51 AM
as a member of a fanbase i wont accept any resposibility for this mess DOOL is in, sure i dont watch when the stories arent good for the characters i like...that doesnt make it my fault or any fanbases fault imo. they should write better for who the majority of fans want to see...i just know there is a way to find out who the majority is in this day and time especially, i will never believe there isnt a way...this isnt brain surgery...its just a soap opera...a soap opera that has my fav characters on it not being written true to character thats why i have been tuning out these past two months. i wont take the blame for horrible writing.
Only two months? Aren't you a Sami fan?
yeah i am a sami fan shes my fav female, and yeah thru may it was bearable but june and july took many huge turns for the worse and people got fed up judging from the back to back to back ratings drops thru both these months...thru out june and july every week when ratings came out more drastic losses of viewers...and of course it wasnt just sami written out of character but almost every person on the show i didnt recognize: nicole, john, marlena, sami, ej just to name a few
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JustJo
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hops
Aug 4 2008, 11:30 PM
Look at what Ken Corday said about J&M at the end of March. I would have loved watching that play out on screen.... what happened to that story? That was the story I wanted to see. Maybe that was the original outline and Dena Higley changed it. Whatever it was, just another example of how they do not cater to fans. Instead they slowly made me just turn off my TV. Although I do admit, Dena Higley probably couldn't have written that story anyway, and that is probably why she changed it. It was to complex for her.

I am checking the show out this week. Don't know if it will be written any better, but at least the spoilers sound interesting.

"Speaking of John and Marlena, 'The problem is there's such a chasm between the two of them. She has to stop hoping he will return to the man he was and realize that he's totally changed and start slapping him when he mistreats her. And he, on the other hand, will start to feel like his heart has blood running through it as opposed to ice. They will come a little bit toward each other; she in a tough love way and he in an 'I can't believe I'm feeling this way' way. What will happen is Marlena will fall in love with this new guy as opposed to trying to get the old John back.'"
Perfect example of saying one thing and doing another. If they tell us this is the way the story is going then DO IT! Otherwise, don't tell us and we'll take whatever we get. You can't build up hopes and then do the complete opposite and expect viewers to like it. Just don't tell us anything in that case.

Thanks, hops!
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madelinehawaii


thereyougo
Aug 4 2008, 04:10 PM
madelinehawaii
Aug 4 2008, 12:16 PM
Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
it seems to me that you and Phoenix are talking about two completely different things...Phoenix I believe is talking about dramatic potential which the writers can use to create new stories and you are talking about payoff and whether TPTB are meeting it out fairly or based on what you believe the fans want. I have no reason to believe the majority of the fans wouldn't agree with you (I don't think so necessarily but I don't believe we have an accurate way to measure that) but I have a difficult time accepting that someone who wants to know the following...

I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.


is seriously discussing her ability to be able to recognize a good story if it doesn't fit her criteria which seems limited to how you view your favorites and THAT is the problem with fanbases IMO. Not that they exist but they are trying to dicate what is a 'good' story and what is not based on payoff instead of drama for their particular couple. Sometimes what we're not expecting or even think we'll like is the thing that can create new possibilities. That's the only thing that keeps me watching this show.
If the fan bases want they're favorites on 24/7 and the ratings reflect that when the fan bases get what they want they get the ratings, tiic should deliver. A story can be interesting, complex, mysterious and romantic but if the large masses don't find the stories interesting, the writers have failed. We the viewers determine whether or not a story is a success or a failure and until tiic get this basic concept, Days will remain in the bottom in the pit.
well, until WE the viewers can reach a consensus on what we consider an entertaining story (and I ain't holding my breath) I wish tiic luck in trying to read our minds...sounds like a thankless job.


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madelinehawaii


PhoenixRising05
Aug 5 2008, 12:38 AM
madelinehawaii
Aug 4 2008, 12:16 PM
Jiggs
Aug 4 2008, 01:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 3 2008, 11:57 PM
Jiggs
Aug 3 2008, 11:29 PM
OneBadKitty
Aug 2 2008, 06:43 PM
IMO, Days caters too much to the audience. I've seen it time and time again: They start a story and as soon as they get negative response to it, they change it. Then someone else reacts badly and they change it again and it keeps going in a cycle. We don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Or on the other hand you have stories like the princess gina saga that went on and on for years and they never listened to fans about it, and kept on with it till they lost millions of viewers. Then they finally end it and end up having to try to restore the damage.
Your right about that but that was back when ratings were higher and fans had more patience. They had not been burned as much at that point. Days started it's endless circle of caving to fanbases in the early 2000's and it's gotten progressively worse since, so much so that they seemingly change direction on a daily basis at times.

Just look at how they used an accidental out to make Bo Zack's father. They bolted on alot of dramatic potential just to cave to the fanbases. John or even Stefano being Zack's father had major story potential yet it was dropped because some fans got upset. It's that kind of thing that has hurt the show and resulted in so many potential stories going down the drain.
Actually, they played out the John is the daddy to Hope's baby for more than a year. I consider that part of the dragged out PG story. And how did they decide to make John the father of the baby? An internet poll that was rigged. What kind of show uses an internet poll to decide the outcome of a paternity? Bo wasn't even an option. John was going to be the father no matter what, the poll was just their way of covering their asses so they could say, "but the fans wanted John to be the father!" When in fact nobody even wanted Hope to have a baby in the first place!

So, I totally don't see how they caved to fans. I got nothing out of the PG storyline as a J&M fan. Not one thing. At the end of it, we got one scene on the balconey where J&M talked about what happened. They gave Bope the big payoff of having the baby be Bo's. What did J&M get other than knowing John screwed Hope on their honeymoon? They didn't even bother to say that John never slept with Hope - they had to write a scene to make sure that we knew that really did happen and it would always taint their honeymoon. I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.

It seems to me that the show starts out a storyline with great potential, but because they are inept they can't write it in a fashion that draws you in and makes the ride worth it. So then they end the story prematurely, not because fans didn't give it a chance, but because they were too inept to actually write it the way the fans would want to see it. Again, I don't get the blaming the fans thing at all.
it seems to me that you and Phoenix are talking about two completely different things...Phoenix I believe is talking about dramatic potential which the writers can use to create new stories and you are talking about payoff and whether TPTB are meeting it out fairly or based on what you believe the fans want. I have no reason to believe the majority of the fans wouldn't agree with you (I don't think so necessarily but I don't believe we have an accurate way to measure that) but I have a difficult time accepting that someone who wants to know the following...

I would love to know how they catered to me during all those years.


is seriously discussing her ability to be able to recognize a good story if it doesn't fit her criteria which seems limited to how you view your favorites and THAT is the problem with fanbases IMO. Not that they exist but they are trying to dicate what is a 'good' story and what is not based on payoff instead of drama for their particular couple. Sometimes what we're not expecting or even think we'll like is the thing that can create new possibilities. That's the only thing that keeps me watching this show.
That is exactly right. Great post. You grasped exactly what I meant. :hail: .

Thanks for the way you put it. I think you said what I wanted to say much better. :smile: .
I thoroughly enjoyed your post as well :biggrin: this has been a most enlightening week around here.

and ty for the welcome ladyofthelake :wave:
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