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SOW: John to Marlena: I want you back!
Topic Started: Aug 14 2008, 07:53 AM (4,027 Views)
pagraves
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esp13
Aug 14 2008, 11:27 AM
As for the use of history, I agree. Although I do have to mention that in the course of watching the original Benjy storyline for S&K from 1988, I've seen the reappearance of Stefano in that story. And, in light of all that has happened over the last year, it's very interesting to me that even in 1988, the writers made it clear that Stefano had a grudge/vendetta against the whole Brady family. It was conveyed quite clearly through the dialogue and storyline. So, while I won't disagree that Stefano's obsession with Marlena is probably more true to history than the Santo/Colleen ridiculousness, the idea that Stefano had a vendetta against the entire Brady family for reasons not totally known isn't something that they made up in 2007. It's very present in 1988 as well.
I think we tend to focus on the story we're familiar with. I watched Days pretty religiously from the summer of 1986 through the fall of 1990, but much more sporadically after that, though I kept up with the basic storylines through my mom, who watched daily, and later through websites like Early Edition (RIP). So while I understood some of the Queen of the Night stuff, it's certainly no more clear in my consciousness than Stefano's clashes with the Bradys around the time of the Benjy storyline.

That's why I'm always a little surprised when people ask, "Why would Stefano (do this or that) to Steve and Kayla?" Well, for starters, maybe because Steve and Kayla were instrumental in keeping Benjy away from Stefano for years. And because Kayla is a Brady. Isn't that reason enough, where Stefano's concerned?

I've never thought that John and Marlena owned the rights to Stefano's wrath, even if they're his favorite targets. He has enough wrath to go around.

I will agree, however, that it was silly to leave John and Marlena out of Stefano's machinations back during the Santeen stuff. That made no sense at all.
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Ellie


esp13
Aug 14 2008, 11:27 AM
Well, I think that if they had not dragged out the story in the manner that they did, then just have Marlena be the only that could bring out John's emotions would have worked just fine. But having made the story choice that they did, it wouldn't make sense to me that John would suddenly have a change of heart and suddenly decide the can't live without Marlena (I'm sure it could be easily fanwanked by J&M fans, but I'm sort of looking at this as a more "neutral" observer I guess) without some kind of catalyst. And, I like the idea that the catalyst is as much a desire to bug Stefano as it is anything else (i.e. the visits from Santo and OldJohn). Because that's a motivation that fits with who NuJohn is right now. And then it allows J&M's relationship to change him further, if that makes any sense.
Yep, it does make sense. Very well put. I agree, it fits in very well with who John is now.


Quote:
 
As for the use of history, I agree. Although I do have to mention that in the course of watching the original Benjy storyline for S&K from 1988, I've seen the reappearance of Stefano in that story. And, in light of all that has happened over the last year, it's very interesting to me that even in 1988, the writers made it clear that Stefano had a grudge/vendetta against the whole Brady family. It was conveyed quite clearly through the dialogue and storyline. So, while I won't disagree that Stefano's obsession with Marlena is probably more true to history than the Santo/Colleen ridiculousness, the idea that Stefano had a vendetta against the entire Brady family for reasons not totally known isn't something that they made up in 2007. It's very present in 1988 as well.
Well, yes and no, I think. I agree it was present in 88, and it was present even before that, when Stefano became obsessed with Marlena in the early 80's, and then the Brady's were introduced as supporting characters for Roman after the Salem Strangler storyline in 82. But what I have a problem with is that Hogan took a theme that really had not been mentioned since 88 (as you say) and turned it into what drove the entire storyline for months. (And as Pagraves points out, J&M weren't even mentioned.) Stefano's schemes during the 90's weren't based on "Bradys vs. the Dimeras" at all. It was pretty much just Stefano (and Kristen, Lexie, et al) vs. J&M. But I do understand what you're saying, that Hogan didn't just pull it out of thin air.
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Kyrai


Tammy
Aug 14 2008, 09:37 AM
Okay who wants to take bets on whether or not we will see "The Eyebrow" from old John lmao :P

I want to see it... I kinda miss it. Ahhh its the small things I miss the most lmao :D
<raises hand> I want to see it!

I'm so excited I can't wait. I love the idea of John pursuing Marlena now. I'm sure he's right. I'll probably be cheering at the tv (since I'm cheering just at this message, lol).

Yay!!!!
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JohnandMarlenaFreak
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Drake babe,you definately got the cheering the tv part right,love ya. ;)
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FanODays


esp13
Aug 14 2008, 09:48 AM
Ellie
Aug 14 2008, 09:23 AM
esp13
Aug 14 2008, 09:19 AM
Not that it will stay that way, of course. But, it's an interesting twist to have Stefano be the one that pushes John back to Marlena, at least initially.
Isn't it? I mean, I'll be honest, I'm looking forward to the shift in the story to when (I hope) John's feelings for Marlena begin coming from within himself, but this is also so interesting. Stefano has always tried to keep J&M apart, and he's never recovered from the fact that 'his pawn stole his queen'. (Awwww.) So if the writers can bring out the fact that Stefano has failed once again in that regard, it will add even another layer to the story and to the complex relationship between the three of them.
I think it is an interesting twist because pretty much everybody has had a go at telling John how Marlena was the great love of his life and how much he loved her and how wonderful he was and they were together and, while it's not like John has never been affected by that, he's still pretty much just pushed it away. But, then Tony (in today's US episode) is talking about John and Marlena but his focus is really on how ticked off Stefano was that John fell in love with Marlena (and vice versa) and how much that drove Stefano's continued obsession with Marlena and with returning John to his pawn status. And that's what seems to finally attract John's interest. It was like I could hear John thinking "so, if I get back together with Blondie, that will really drive Stefano crazy. Interesting."

And if that is what drives John to tell Marlena he wants to make a go of their marriage (which seems to be what Drake is hinting at in his interview) then it's a very interesting twist, particularly if Marlena is now not so willing to just take him back because he says so.

As I said, I'm sure that there will be a gradual shift as John's feelings become more real, but this is a good way of bridging the gap between unfeeling, uncaring John and a John that acknowledges real feelings for Marlena.
Well I think at first John is going to become the one to persue rather than Marlena even if its because he wants to take a jab at Stefano. My guess is that while doing this he will fall in love with her. Not sure if he'll return to his old self completely and I don't want him to but from the sounds of it, this could be a terrific love story.....if they had let Scott keep writing. Problem is that Higley is back, with no changes allowed so I'm pessimistically optimistic.
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pagraves
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FanODays
Aug 14 2008, 12:20 PM
I'm pessimistically optimistic.
Heh. That's probably the perfect state of mind for watching Days these days.
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esp13
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Ellie
Aug 14 2008, 11:57 AM
Well, yes and no, I think. I agree it was present in 88, and it was present even before that, when Stefano became obsessed with Marlena in the early 80's, and then the Brady's were introduced as supporting characters for Roman after the Salem Strangler storyline in 82. But what I have a problem with is that Hogan took a theme that really had not been mentioned since 88 (as you say) and turned it into what drove the entire storyline for months. (And as Pagraves points out, J&M weren't even mentioned.) Stefano's schemes during the 90's weren't based on "Bradys vs. the Dimeras" at all. It was pretty much just Stefano (and Kristen, Lexie, et al) vs. J&M. But I do understand what you're saying, that Hogan didn't just pull it out of thin air.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I totally agree that it was stupid to have J&M so removed from the vendetta storyline and I certainly agree that the Stefano/J&M dynamic was changed a lot during the 1990's and that history has to be just as respected as anything else. And, on top of that, the actual reveal of the vendetta was doubly stupid (it so should have been the Brady's that started it to make any of the rest of it make any kind of sense).

All I'm saying is that when the vendetta storyline started there were a lot of people (and not just J&M fans) that questioned the existence of any kind of vendetta and accused Hogan of just making stuff up. I just found it interesting when recently viewing the old storyline that the idea that Stefano had it out for all the Brady's (although RoJohn more than any) for some sort of vague and undefined reason wasn't developed by Hogan at all. It was there way back when. And, since I'm rambling off topic anyway, it's not like there can only be one motivation. It's easily explained by saying that it started as Stefano pursuing the vendetta against the Brady's and then became more focused on J&M because of Stefano's obsession with Marlena and the fact that his pawn he intended to use against the Brady's had fallen in love with Marlena, etc. The two motivations/themes aren't mutually exclusive at all. And I think using both respects not only J&M"s history with Stefano, but Bo and Hope's and Steve and Kayla's history with him as well.

And now, back on topic, I'm curious to see how the follow through with what they seem to be starting in all of this. Because of that uncertainty, I totally understand FanODays' pessimistic optimism. :D
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e83talus
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esp13
Aug 14 2008, 12:39 PM
Ellie
Aug 14 2008, 11:57 AM
Well, yes and no, I think. I agree it was present in 88, and it was present even before that, when Stefano became obsessed with Marlena in the early 80's, and then the Brady's were introduced as supporting characters for Roman after the Salem Strangler storyline in 82. But what I have a problem with is that Hogan took a theme that really had not been mentioned since 88 (as you say) and turned it into what drove the entire storyline for months. (And as Pagraves points out, J&M weren't even mentioned.) Stefano's schemes during the 90's weren't based on "Bradys vs. the Dimeras" at all. It was pretty much just Stefano (and Kristen, Lexie, et al) vs. J&M. But I do understand what you're saying, that Hogan didn't just pull it out of thin air.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I totally agree that it was stupid to have J&M so removed from the vendetta storyline and I certainly agree that the Stefano/J&M dynamic was changed a lot during the 1990's and that history has to be just as respected as anything else. And, on top of that, the actual reveal of the vendetta was doubly stupid (it so should have been the Brady's that started it to make any of the rest of it make any kind of sense).

All I'm saying is that when the vendetta storyline started there were a lot of people (and not just J&M fans) that questioned the existence of any kind of vendetta and accused Hogan of just making stuff up. I just found it interesting when recently viewing the old storyline that the idea that Stefano had it out for all the Brady's (although RoJohn more than any) for some sort of vague and undefined reason wasn't developed by Hogan at all. It was there way back when. And, since I'm rambling off topic anyway, it's not like there can only be one motivation. It's easily explained by saying that it started as Stefano pursuing the vendetta against the Brady's and then became more focused on J&M because of Stefano's obsession with Marlena and the fact that his pawn he intended to use against the Brady's had fallen in love with Marlena, etc. The two motivations/themes aren't mutually exclusive at all. And I think using both respects not only J&M"s history with Stefano, but Bo and Hope's and Steve and Kayla's history with him as well.

And now, back on topic, I'm curious to see how the follow through with what they seem to be starting in all of this. Because of that uncertainty, I totally understand FanODays' pessimistic optimism. :D
You guys are bringing up some great historical memories of Days.

I agree that Stefano in his 20+ years has pretty much tried to destroy the Brady's including Roman, Marlena, Bo, Hope, Steve, Kayla, and John. Throw in his dislike of his own son Tony and you have Stefano against most of those on screen now. His obsession with Sami would actually make more sense if they tied it to Marlena. You know, "I could not get the mother so I want the daughter for my son." But instead of doing that they make up a complete fabricated farse about Santo and Colleen which goes directly against everything that Stefano has done to all of his victims.

I am too excited about the movement of this s/l now. I confess I want Marlena to give nuJohn a taste of his own medicine and being as uncaring as he was to her feelings. I think we will get some of that as well but I think Marlena will be more depressed and simply accept that her husband is gone and go through the greiving process all over again. I think thats what Deidre means when she says Marlena is "Tired". A tired and dejected Marlena is indeed not a Marlena we have seen.
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Kevc1980
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this sounds great..looking forward to seeing old John and Sam the most..
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esp13
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e83talus
Aug 14 2008, 01:12 PM
I agree that Stefano in his 20+ years has pretty much tried to destroy the Brady's including Roman, Marlena, Bo, Hope, Steve, Kayla, and John. Throw in his dislike of his own son Tony and you have Stefano against most of those on screen now. His obsession with Sami would actually make more sense if they tied it to Marlena. You know, "I could not get the mother so I want the daughter for my son." But instead of doing that they make up a complete fabricated farse about Santo and Colleen which goes directly against everything that Stefano has done to all of his victims.
The really sad thing is that the Santo/Colleen stuff could have worked (and I'm not necessarily talking about the dual roles for JS and AS, or the timeline that puts the story in the 1950's -- just that story as the basis for the vendetta) if they had just worked with it a little bit. All they needed to do was to have the Brady's be responsible for Santo's death whether directly or indirectly and, in that way, give Stefano a plausible motivation to have hatred for all things Brady. Forget Colleen's fake death and all that. She still has the kid, goes into hiding, whatever. But, it's the Brady's that drew first blood.

Then we have a basis for Stefano's initial feud with Roman which gets taken to a new level by his obsession with Marlena. This gives the motivation for faking Roman's death and putting his pawn into play (to mess with both Marlena's lives and the Brady's as well). This backfires when the Pawn falls in love with Marlena (and vice versa) and decides he's Roman Brady (I've never been clear on the retcon of that stuff because I'm not sure why Stefano would be upset with John for falling in love with Marlena if he really programmed him to be Roman Brady and therefore believe that Marlena was the woman that he loved, but I digress).

So, now Stefano has it out for John and gets some revenge by taking Marlena (retcon from the Orpheus stuff). But, he still has his vendetta against the Brady's which reaches Shane and Kim with the Drew story, Steve and Kayla with Benjy and Steve's death (retcon from the Alamain stuff), and Bo and Hope with Hope's death (recton from the Tuscano stuff) and the whole Gina/Hope/Princess Gina mess that I won't begin to describe. In the meantime, Marlena escapes, Roman escapes, John is revealed not to be Roman, etc., etc. Stefano pursues his obsession which deepens with the whole Queen of the Night and other madcap escapades of the 1990s and 2000's.

All of which leads us more or less to 2007 and the EJ/Sami stuff. Having Sami be the mother of a DiMera heir could tie into both Stefano's obsession with Marlena (as you point out) and the vendetta by turning a Brady into a DiMera, so to speak. The forced marriage thing doesn't have to be because it's a way of uniting Santo and Colleen. It's just a way to get Sami into the family for those other reasons. Then Colleen is revealed to be alive, John is revealed to be her son, and the truth about the fact that the Brady's caused Santo's death is also revealed. This, in turn, forces the Brady's to confront their own not so good history and maybe even mention that it might have been nice if Shawn or Colleen had mentioned any of this when the Brady spouses kept going missing. Good family conflict which I like.

I'm not saying this would have been perfect or that everybody would have liked it, but it could have worked and incorporated a lot of history -- and history that included everybody --- and provided a plausible explanation for Stefano's reign of terror. But, as we all know, it didn't happen.

Quote:
 
I am too excited about the movement of this s/l now. I confess I want Marlena to give nuJohn a taste of his own medicine and being as uncaring as he was to her feelings. I think we will get some of that as well but I think Marlena will be more depressed and simply accept that her husband is gone and go through the greiving process all over again. I think thats what Deidre means when she says Marlena is "Tired". A tired and dejected Marlena is indeed not a Marlena we have seen.


I think it would definitely be good if Marlena is at least suspicious of John's sudden change of heart and doesn't just welcome him back with open arms. After everything that has happened, he needs to earn it a bit. Plus, while that might have worked 4 months ago, it wouldn't fit with what has happened since then (not just Ava, but all the dock war stuff). Her issues haven't just been his feelings for her (or lack of them) or his memories, it's also been the way he has chosen to live his life. Those issues shouldn't just disappear because John says he wants to try the marriage thing out for real.
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JohnandMarlenaFreak
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I am just looking forward to Old John telling NuJohn what he needs to hear,Marlena has obsessively been bitched about not supporting and liking John how he is now,well truth be told I have always known Old John would not like how NuJohn is either,hence why Marlena has been like that and I am looking forward to Old John telling NuJohn he doesn't approve of him either.OLD JOHN is the BEST.
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CindyJean
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How refreshing and nice that Samantha in the dream encourages her to be strong. This is not normal Soap Opera style where the 'man' is all to the woman. Good job whoever wrote it.
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Tammy
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CinderAngelkc
Aug 14 2008, 02:54 PM
How refreshing and nice that Samantha in the dream encourages her to be strong. This is not normal Soap Opera style where the 'man' is all to the woman. Good job whoever wrote it.
I like it too, I hope we are going to see Marlena with a whole new attitude (One that makes sense). And I know who I put MY money on for writting it ;)
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Jarlena4Eva
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Jarlena-Holic

This storyline makes me so excited!!! I cannot wait to see how this all pays out!! :applause: I know that in the end J & M will be together and I absolutely cannot wait for it to happen! The writing is good right now! I hope it does not end!!!
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Wow...I could care less if J&M end up together but this does sound good. I love the idea of John pursuing Stefano. I saw shades of that today with Tony explaining to John how it drove Stefano mad when his beloved Marlena fell for his "pawn." Good stuff. John does it to get back at Stefano but, in the process, will likely end up falling for her. I love the fact that J&M seem to reverse roles here. I'm so sick of the pursuing being from Marlena's end. This should be good. I love the sound of the Sam stuff and John seeing his old self, young Stefano, and Santo. I just love the fact that we get a "that's a fact" from the "old" John. I love how all this is stemming from the characters and their history.

I can get behind J&M as a couple if they continue to write each of them strongly as individuals and it looks like they are, at least in the coming weeks.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

The one thing that disappoints me about this is that Marlena is still insistent on old John returning. She will give up if he doesn't, instead of meeting nuJohn halfway and accepting him. I don't mean she has to fall for his crooked ways or anything, but if they showed her accepting some of his snark and finally learning about some of what's in nuJohn's heart (I see a guy who snarks and acts big and mean out of inner fear), that would have gone a long way into making me feel more positive about her. I wouldn't mind a blend of old John and new John. I'm just tired of people having to change for her. I know I'm going to get a lot of flack and disagreements and maybe even some nasty bashing towards me about that, but whatever. Like the long "suffering" Carolyn hinsey used to say "It's only MY opinion!".
But, like Tim said, if they are written as individuals instead of Siamese twins, I'd be just as happy. I LIKE seeing John call Marlena out on some of her hypocrisy instead of blindly going along. And yes, it would be OK for Marlena to call John out on his stuff, too (as long as it's not something she does but won't admit to. Like the whole paralyzing Stefano thing then scolding John for wanting to kill him).
Edited by ladyofthelake, Aug 15 2008, 06:37 AM.
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Deleted User
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I'm PISSED that I may not get to see any of this. For those who don't know, my DVD-RW player just STOPPED working. It can play regular DVDs but won't record or even play DVD-RWs! What the fuck is up with that?!!! Worst, I STILL haven't seen the "Passions" last two episodes because the Internet connection ONLY for that video hangs, and the DivX player won't play the online show files because it lakes some DirectShow codec, which, I downloaded, and it STILL doesn't work! And "Days" just sounds EXPLOSIVE! I want to see all of this!!! :( :( :( :( :(
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maggs
Aug 14 2008, 05:42 PM
This storyline makes me so excited!!! I cannot wait to see how this all pays out!! :applause: I know that in the end J & M will be together and I absolutely cannot wait for it to happen! The writing is good right now! I hope it does not end!!!
*gasp*

Maggs.. that J&M picture is SO FUCKING HOT!!!! :wub2: :wub2: :wub2: :wub2: :wub2:
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CatherineEarnshaw


ladyofthelake
Aug 15 2008, 06:36 AM
The one thing that disappoints me about this is that Marlena is still insistent on old John returning. She will give up if he doesn't, instead of meeting nuJohn halfway and accepting him. I don't mean she has to fall for his crooked ways or anything, but if they showed her accepting some of his snark and finally learning about some of what's in nuJohn's heart (I see a guy who snarks and acts big and mean out of inner fear), that would have gone a long way into making me feel more positive about her. I wouldn't mind a blend of old John and new John. I'm just tired of people having to change for her. I know I'm going to get a lot of flack and disagreements and maybe even some nasty bashing towards me about that, but whatever. Like the long "suffering" Carolyn hinsey used to say "It's only MY opinion!".
But, like Tim said, if they are written as individuals instead of Siamese twins, I'd be just as happy. I LIKE seeing John call Marlena out on some of her hypocrisy instead of blindly going along. And yes, it would be OK for Marlena to call John out on his stuff, too (as long as it's not something she does but won't admit to. Like the whole paralyzing Stefano thing then scolding John for wanting to kill him).
Marlena has already admitted that she paralyzed Stefano.
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JohnandMarlenaFreak
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PhoenixRising05
Aug 15 2008, 12:30 AM
Wow...I could care less if J&M end up together but this does sound good. I love the idea of John pursuing Stefano. I saw shades of that today with Tony explaining to John how it drove Stefano mad when his beloved Marlena fell for his "pawn." Good stuff. John does it to get back at Stefano but, in the process, will likely end up falling for her. I love the fact that J&M seem to reverse roles here. I'm so sick of the pursuing being from Marlena's end. This should be good. I love the sound of the Sam stuff and John seeing his old self, young Stefano, and Santo. I just love the fact that we get a "that's a fact" from the "old" John. I love how all this is stemming from the characters and their history.

I can get behind J&M as a couple if they continue to write each of them strongly as individuals and it looks like they are, at least in the coming weeks.
I see what your saying and all,but if my spouse died and somhow came back the polar opposite of how he once was and acted like NuJohn,noway would I give him the time of day,I don't fault Marlena,she loved her John for a long long time and this John is the opposite of who he used to be,he has no morals whatsoever,but like I said if I were in Marlena's shoes I would not do anything different.
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