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DAYS: Weekly Discussion!; Week of 9/1
Topic Started: Sep 2 2008, 02:25 PM (4,347 Views)
hops
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Mason
Sep 2 2008, 04:49 PM
I agree, Higley shouldn't be demoted. She should be out on her ass, and never allowed to write for soaps again!
Please.
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Jiggs
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Today's show was hideously stupid and boring. Welcome back, Higley! :drunk:
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Ellie


Tripp
Sep 2 2008, 05:34 PM
Anyone notice the OT guy they have? He shows up again tomorrow and I think his name is Marc.
Yes, I did - the guy in the grey sweater? I thought he was very good. (And not bad looking!)
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Ellie


hops
Sep 2 2008, 06:14 PM
and Stefano walks in, and says a few lines and the next scene in the Mansion, he is over on the other side of the room and Bo is hand cuffing him. What happened in between? That was stupid.
Yep - it was ridiculous.

Also forgot to mention when Bo walks in just as Tony is saying "...but coming here, father, is a big mistake." So what does Bo say? "Who you talking to, Tony?" :laugh: I had to watch it again just now to make sure I'd heard right.

Oh also - here is an example of the poor direction and/or camerawork. I know this isn't a great cap, but look how Tony's face is still blurred as he's speaking. He should have been brought into focus for his lines, or it should have been staged differently.

Posted Image
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Kyrai


I had mixed feelings about today.

I liked Stefano's scenes with John today. I found it funny that both John and Stefano wanted everybody out. I actually liked all of John's scenes, worrying about Marlena, telling Bo Marlena was most important, his frustration at the end.

I liked EJ. He's really got me interested. He watches, assesses the situation, and approaches things rationally. He may be a better match for Stefano than John or Tony.

I also liked Steve's scenes. Nice scene with Hope, going after Stefano (wish Bo had let him go), and being furious at Stefano getting off. (I only wish he'd decked Roman, oh well).

But Stefano getting off was ludicrous. He kept John locked up in a basement brainwashing him to kill his mother, but since he raised John from the dead, the DA doesn't want to bring charges???? You gotta be kidding me. I find it hard to believe the DA could be bought by Stefano when John is a pretty powerful force as well.

Marlena seemed all but dead. I keep wondering if they were intentionally showing her all worn out, but after her 'taking charge of my life' personna Friday, it didn't make sense to me.

Roman is just so insanely boring, I can't stand to see him on the screen.

Morgan and Phillip are just annoying to watch. She's actually making me dislike Phil - a crime!

Stax is a waste of time.

This seems like Higley being back... Waffling back and forth no direction. I'm worried.
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Days4Life


I'm really concerned with the way they jumped the Hollingsworth story forward with no explanation. What happened between the episode where Morgan saw Paul outside the Brady Pub (which was a very good scene) and today (which was kind of a mess)? I felt like I'd missed an episode. And the scene at the beginning of the show with Philip and some guy he paid off--was the guy following Morgan or what? It wasn't very clear; I just assumed he had been following Morgan since she accused Philip of having done it. That seems stupid, too, since Philip has been trying to get all cozy with her.

As for the Salem PD, Hope is really the only one with a fully functioning brain...they should put her in charge. Everyone else just flies off the handle and throws around accusations. I didn't hear anyone mention any real evidence against Stefano so how do they think the DA could make a case against him? Why doesn't someone actually investigate and come up with real evidence? And why is Roman still around?

I thought today's episode had a very disjointed feel to it, especially compared to last week, which was very good for the most part. The direction was bad, the scenes were disorganized...it was messy. And this autism storyline is boring and doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the show. As for Lexie, she's Chief of Staff, which is largely an administrative position, right? What's she doing switching shifts with other doctors and treating patients all day long?

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jane1978


Jiggs
Sep 2 2008, 06:42 PM
Today's show was hideously stupid and boring. Welcome back, Higley! :drunk:
Here we are again. Why do you automatically assume this was Higley episode? It was written and taped way before Ed was outed so he was probably majorly involved. And the disjointed and rushed feel could be very well a product of a bunch of amateur trying hurriedly "repair" the scripts.

Thatīs what I was saying from the beginning. Whatever his intension had been, he and his changes just created further mess. I know people here hate Higley, but she was a breakthrough writer for 20 years, so she knows something about good pacing and editing events between the shows.

Iīm looking forward to the new EP to finally clear the mess and produce a real continuity drama again.
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Kevc1980
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The Stefano stuff was very well done..I'm loving this Dimera men power struggle....So happy that we are getting so much of Tony and Anna...Also i really do like Bo clean shaven...

But the Paul stuff was a mess..After all that has happened he just reveals himself to Morgan and gets arrested..How unexciting...But glad thats it wrapped up..This will just go down as another story in which Dena failed to deliver..

Abe, Lexie, and Theo's scenes got better at the park..I'm really liking the kid playing Theo, he's doing a pretty good job...

And i barely noticed Max and Stephanie on todays show...
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Mason
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jane1978
Sep 3 2008, 12:46 AM
I know people here hate Higley, but she was a breakthrough writer for 20 years, so she knows something about good pacing and editing events between the shows.
And yet, she chooses to totally ignore all of that, for whatever reason. Which only makes her more of a hack, IMO.
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Jiggs
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jane1978
Sep 3 2008, 12:46 AM
Jiggs
Sep 2 2008, 06:42 PM
Today's show was hideously stupid and boring. Welcome back, Higley! :drunk:
Here we are again. Why do you automatically assume this was Higley episode? It was written and taped way before Ed was outed so he was probably majorly involved. And the disjointed and rushed feel could be very well a product of a bunch of amateur trying hurriedly "repair" the scripts.

Thatīs what I was saying from the beginning. Whatever his intension had been, he and his changes just created further mess. I know people here hate Higley, but she was a breakthrough writer for 20 years, so she knows something about good pacing and editing events between the shows.

Iīm looking forward to the new EP to finally clear the mess and produce a real continuity drama again.
I'm just guessing like everyone else. But I know her writing pretty well as I've been tortured by it for a long time (now and before). They might as well have had her walk into the DiMansion today and announce she was back for how obvious it was her material. Oh well, I enjoyed a few weeks of pretty good shows. :popcorn:
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DolceDiMera
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jane1978
Sep 3 2008, 12:46 AM
Jiggs
Sep 2 2008, 06:42 PM
Today's show was hideously stupid and boring. Welcome back, Higley! :drunk:
Here we are again. Why do you automatically assume this was Higley episode? It was written and taped way before Ed was outed so he was probably majorly involved. And the disjointed and rushed feel could be very well a product of a bunch of amateur trying hurriedly "repair" the scripts.

Thatīs what I was saying from the beginning. Whatever his intension had been, he and his changes just created further mess. I know people here hate Higley, but she was a breakthrough writer for 20 years, so she knows something about good pacing and editing events between the shows.

Iīm looking forward to the new EP to finally clear the mess and produce a real continuity drama again.
That's what I believe too.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

jane1978
Sep 3 2008, 12:46 AM
Jiggs
Sep 2 2008, 06:42 PM
Today's show was hideously stupid and boring. Welcome back, Higley! :drunk:
Here we are again. Why do you automatically assume this was Higley episode? It was written and taped way before Ed was outed so he was probably majorly involved. And the disjointed and rushed feel could be very well a product of a bunch of amateur trying hurriedly "repair" the scripts.

Thatīs what I was saying from the beginning. Whatever his intension had been, he and his changes just created further mess. I know people here hate Higley, but she was a breakthrough writer for 20 years, so she knows something about good pacing and editing events between the shows.

Iīm looking forward to the new EP to finally clear the mess and produce a real continuity drama again.
I agree.

I'm not saying Higley is good. However, as much as I enjoyed today, you could tell something was up. In fact, I've sensed that for two weeks now. All the stories Dena had going, which were picking up big time as the Olympics approaches, are being wrapped up. Chan is done and the Kate stuff is out, the Paul story ended in like 3 episodes, John got over Ava at lightning speed, and the Trent stuff is winding down and that story got barely any focus after Stax was forced on us big time in June. I think this is the point where Dena got upset and left. She tuned in and saw Ed ending her stuff and, as much as I don't like her, I can't say I blame her. I know I'm in the minority but her stories were getting good before the Olympics. I do think alot of the inconsistent direction is due to the power struggle. Call Higley what you want but having watched her first Days stint, her whole OLTL stint, and the first few months of this stint, her stories have direction. They may not be good stories most of the time but it's usually due to execution. However, she never has issues with direction. She commits to something and goes with it. May and June had no direction at all. It was like ping-pong and I blame that on the Ed/Dena war. I can't even say Corday because it didn't feel like his type of interference. It felt more like a show in disarray.

Back to today, though, I'm shocked so many didn't care for today. I thought the Dimera stuff alone would be enough to please most. Watching it yesterday, I felt it was disjointed but since many didn't care for the Paul story I figured people would just be happy it got resolved. I didn't think it was that bad the way it ended. It was obvious Paul wanted to get back to her and, having watched tomorrow's episode, more about how Paul got out of the mansion and why he did what he did is revealed. I would post what exactly happened but I don't want to spoil it and think it would ruin some of the surprise of tomorrow but, then again, some will probably still hate it anyway LOL. I thought what they did was clever in how they tied things together.

I do agree about the writing for Marlena today. I didn't mind the scene with Stefano as I took it as her not knowing what to say. She has reason to fear him and I think she's treading carefully. She's not recovered yet. I did hate her little line about John not letting Stefano come to the mansion. It just seemed out of place and she came off as so weak. I liked John's concern for her but I just hated what came out of her mouth.
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Sep 3 2008, 02:33 AM.
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jane1978


PhoenixRising05
Sep 3 2008, 02:30 AM
I'm not saying Higley is good. However, as much as I enjoyed today, you could tell something was up. In fact, I've sensed that for two weeks now. All the stories Dena had going, which were picking up big time as the Olympics approaches, are being wrapped up. Chan is done and the Kate stuff is out, the Paul story ended in like 3 episodes, John got over Ava at lightning speed, and the Trent stuff is winding down and that story got barely any focus after Stax was forced on us big time in June. I think this is the point where Dena got upset and left. She tuned in and saw Ed ending her stuff and, as much as I don't like her, I can't say I blame her. I know I'm in the minority but her stories were getting good before the Olympics. I do think alot of the inconsistent direction is due to the power struggle. Call Higley what you want but having watched her first Days stint, her whole OLTL stint, and the first few months of this stint, her stories have direction. They may not be good stories most of the time but it's usually due to execution. However, she never has issues with direction. She commits to something and goes with it. May and June had no direction at all. It was like ping-pong and I blame that on the Ed/Dena war. I can't even say Corday because it didn't feel like his type of interference. It felt more like a show in disarray.
Exactly. Itīs one thing if someone doesnīt like the stories and/or characters she choices to write for, but itīs completely different thing when some rules from screenwriter basics are suddenly totally missing. I agree the show lately has a feeling of someone trying to put together exciting and quick paced show but not knowing how to do it properly and Dena süre didnīt have any trouble with pacing and editing during the strike or when Ava was first introduced and kidnapped Hope and Steve. So whatever Ed did, it didnīt help.
Edited by jane1978, Sep 3 2008, 04:48 AM.
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Kyrai


Jiggs
Sep 3 2008, 01:17 AM
jane1978
Sep 3 2008, 12:46 AM
Jiggs
Sep 2 2008, 06:42 PM
Today's show was hideously stupid and boring. Welcome back, Higley! :drunk:
Here we are again. Why do you automatically assume this was Higley episode? It was written and taped way before Ed was outed so he was probably majorly involved. And the disjointed and rushed feel could be very well a product of a bunch of amateur trying hurriedly "repair" the scripts.

Thatīs what I was saying from the beginning. Whatever his intension had been, he and his changes just created further mess. I know people here hate Higley, but she was a breakthrough writer for 20 years, so she knows something about good pacing and editing events between the shows.

Iīm looking forward to the new EP to finally clear the mess and produce a real continuity drama again.
I'm just guessing like everyone else. But I know her writing pretty well as I've been tortured by it for a long time (now and before). They might as well have had her walk into the DiMansion today and announce she was back for how obvious it was her material. Oh well, I enjoyed a few weeks of pretty good shows. :popcorn:
Honestly, that was my thought as I watched. Higley is back. As I said, I liked some scenes, but the episode did not flow well. It did not seem like the past few weeks, imo. I'm afraid we're going back to scene writing. Interesting scenes, that are inconsistent with the whole story.

I hope I'm wrong, but I did think it several times yesterday.
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esp13
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jane1978
Sep 3 2008, 04:29 AM
Exactly. Itīs one thing if someone doesnīt like the stories and/or characters she choices to write for, but itīs completely different thing when some rules from screenwriter basics are suddenly totally missing. I agree the show lately has a feeling of someone trying to put together exciting and quick paced show but not knowing how to do it properly and Dena süre didnīt have any trouble with pacing and editing during the strike or when Ava was first introduced and kidnapped Hope and Steve. So whatever Ed did, it didnīt help.
See, I'd have to pretty much totally disagree about Dena's pacing from almost day one. January and February weren't awful, although I'd argue the plane crashing scenes lasted at least one day too many. But, March was Bo being sick and he and Hope having the same conversation (literally) every day. By the time they got to the climax with the transplant, it felt like it had dragged on for months.

She did the same thing with Ava. She dragged out the beginning with too much time spent having Ava talk to herself in her room. Then she gets Hope and Steve kidnapped and has 3 weeks of nothing happening as Ava and Steve and Hope have the same conversation over and over, while Bo and Kayla worry (repetatively at that). Again, by the time the conclusion finally hit, it felt like it had all been going on for months and nobody cared. The fact that the conclusion was also written beyond horribly doesn't help, either.

She did it again with the introduction to the Max storyline by dragging out the RagingMax thing for far too long. By the time they finally explained why Max was angry and didn't want people to know he was smart, nobody cared. They were sick of the character and his stupid rages. I know a lot of people didn't care about Max anyway, but that storyline turned away a lot of people who were at least neutral on the character.

All three of these storylines have something in common. They were dragged out and infused with repetative dialogue. And it was months before the whole bruhaha with Ed hit the news.

I don't know who is responsible for yesterday and I don't really care. I didn't think it was horrible, although I do agree it was disjointed. But, those who think it means Higley was back probably have a fair point in believing that. Those that are convinced it's all Ed screwing up probably have a fair point in believing that as well. But, in the end, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that somebody fixes it -- soon.
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Days4Life


esp13
Sep 3 2008, 09:10 AM
jane1978
Sep 3 2008, 04:29 AM
Exactly. Itīs one thing if someone doesnīt like the stories and/or characters she choices to write for, but itīs completely different thing when some rules from screenwriter basics are suddenly totally missing. I agree the show lately has a feeling of someone trying to put together exciting and quick paced show but not knowing how to do it properly and Dena süre didnīt have any trouble with pacing and editing during the strike or when Ava was first introduced and kidnapped Hope and Steve. So whatever Ed did, it didnīt help.
See, I'd have to pretty much totally disagree about Dena's pacing from almost day one. January and February weren't awful, although I'd argue the plane crashing scenes lasted at least one day too many. But, March was Bo being sick and he and Hope having the same conversation (literally) every day. By the time they got to the climax with the transplant, it felt like it had dragged on for months.

She did the same thing with Ava. She dragged out the beginning with too much time spent having Ava talk to herself in her room. Then she gets Hope and Steve kidnapped and has 3 weeks of nothing happening as Ava and Steve and Hope have the same conversation over and over, while Bo and Kayla worry (repetatively at that). Again, by the time the conclusion finally hit, it felt like it had all been going on for months and nobody cared. The fact that the conclusion was also written beyond horribly doesn't help, either.

She did it again with the introduction to the Max storyline by dragging out the RagingMax thing for far too long. By the time they finally explained why Max was angry and didn't want people to know he was smart, nobody cared. They were sick of the character and his stupid rages. I know a lot of people didn't care about Max anyway, but that storyline turned away a lot of people who were at least neutral on the character.

All three of these storylines have something in common. They were dragged out and infused with repetative dialogue. And it was months before the whole bruhaha with Ed hit the news.

I don't know who is responsible for yesterday and I don't really care. I didn't think it was horrible, although I do agree it was disjointed. But, those who think it means Higley was back probably have a fair point in believing that. Those that are convinced it's all Ed screwing up probably have a fair point in believing that as well. But, in the end, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that somebody fixes it -- soon
You make some great points. Higley has a habit of dragging things out just a little too long, to the point no one cares any more. There's a fine line between building the suspense and hooking your audience or losing them due to boredom and she doesn't know where that line is. My biggest problems with her are pacing and the lack of a proper pay-off. Most of her stories have ended with a whimper instead of a bang--the Kate/Daniel reveal, Ava, Max's rages, even Nicole's big secret, which was talked about and built up for weeks and was finally revealed in a very lackluster way. She has to learn to write her stories in a way that makes people care and want to tune in each day or she's never going to win people over. Some of her stories have promise at the beginning, but she bores us to tears with the repetition and lack of movement, only to rush the end.

I also don't know who's responsible for the material we're seeing right now, but whoever it is put together a Tuesday show that was a mess. I did enjoy the Stefano confrontation at the end of the show, but other than that, it seemed like random scenes were just thrown together, with no real thought or direction. Hopefully, it won't continue that way for long. Maybe the new EP will help, maybe the new co-HW will help, but something needs to happen...and I agree, it needs to be soon.
Edited by Days4Life, Sep 3 2008, 10:02 AM.
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Paxton
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Dreaming of a Melanie-free Days

esp13
Sep 3 2008, 09:10 AM
jane1978
Sep 3 2008, 04:29 AM
Exactly. Itīs one thing if someone doesnīt like the stories and/or characters she choices to write for, but itīs completely different thing when some rules from screenwriter basics are suddenly totally missing. I agree the show lately has a feeling of someone trying to put together exciting and quick paced show but not knowing how to do it properly and Dena süre didnīt have any trouble with pacing and editing during the strike or when Ava was first introduced and kidnapped Hope and Steve. So whatever Ed did, it didnīt help.
See, I'd have to pretty much totally disagree about Dena's pacing from almost day one. January and February weren't awful, although I'd argue the plane crashing scenes lasted at least one day too many. But, March was Bo being sick and he and Hope having the same conversation (literally) every day. By the time they got to the climax with the transplant, it felt like it had dragged on for months.

She did the same thing with Ava. She dragged out the beginning with too much time spent having Ava talk to herself in her room. Then she gets Hope and Steve kidnapped and has 3 weeks of nothing happening as Ava and Steve and Hope have the same conversation over and over, while Bo and Kayla worry (repetatively at that). Again, by the time the conclusion finally hit, it felt like it had all been going on for months and nobody cared. The fact that the conclusion was also written beyond horribly doesn't help, either.

She did it again with the introduction to the Max storyline by dragging out the RagingMax thing for far too long. By the time they finally explained why Max was angry and didn't want people to know he was smart, nobody cared. They were sick of the character and his stupid rages. I know a lot of people didn't care about Max anyway, but that storyline turned away a lot of people who were at least neutral on the character.

All three of these storylines have something in common. They were dragged out and infused with repetative dialogue. And it was months before the whole bruhaha with Ed hit the news.

I don't know who is responsible for yesterday and I don't really care. I didn't think it was horrible, although I do agree it was disjointed. But, those who think it means Higley was back probably have a fair point in believing that. Those that are convinced it's all Ed screwing up probably have a fair point in believing that as well. But, in the end, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that somebody fixes it -- soon.
Great post and I agree totally. Those three are all perfect examples of storylines (Ava kidnapping Hope, Max's secret and Bo's illness) that in and of themselves were perfectly fine storyline ideas, but the pacing was terrible. How many fauxbacks did we get of Stava sex? How many actual flashbacks to the day before did we get during Max's story? It seemed to me like there was a ton of filler and repetition that did not advance the storylines.

I further agree that it's hard to tell who's responsible for what and it may not matter. I wasn't enraptured with the Olympic-weeks hospital storyline and didn't see it as clearly being better than anything before or since, although I did enjoy the noir stuff, never mind the fact that the hospital story seemed like an "event" to me which is supposedly the stuff Higley writes.
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jane1978


esp13
Sep 3 2008, 09:10 AM
jane1978
Sep 3 2008, 04:29 AM
Exactly. Itīs one thing if someone doesnīt like the stories and/or characters she choices to write for, but itīs completely different thing when some rules from screenwriter basics are suddenly totally missing. I agree the show lately has a feeling of someone trying to put together exciting and quick paced show but not knowing how to do it properly and Dena süre didnīt have any trouble with pacing and editing during the strike or when Ava was first introduced and kidnapped Hope and Steve. So whatever Ed did, it didnīt help.
See, I'd have to pretty much totally disagree about Dena's pacing from almost day one. January and February weren't awful, although I'd argue the plane crashing scenes lasted at least one day too many. But, March was Bo being sick and he and Hope having the same conversation (literally) every day. By the time they got to the climax with the transplant, it felt like it had dragged on for months.

She did the same thing with Ava. She dragged out the beginning with too much time spent having Ava talk to herself in her room. Then she gets Hope and Steve kidnapped and has 3 weeks of nothing happening as Ava and Steve and Hope have the same conversation over and over, while Bo and Kayla worry (repetatively at that). Again, by the time the conclusion finally hit, it felt like it had all been going on for months and nobody cared. The fact that the conclusion was also written beyond horribly doesn't help, either.

She did it again with the introduction to the Max storyline by dragging out the RagingMax thing for far too long. By the time they finally explained why Max was angry and didn't want people to know he was smart, nobody cared. They were sick of the character and his stupid rages. I know a lot of people didn't care about Max anyway, but that storyline turned away a lot of people who were at least neutral on the character.

All three of these storylines have something in common. They were dragged out and infused with repetative dialogue. And it was months before the whole bruhaha with Ed hit the news.

I don't know who is responsible for yesterday and I don't really care. I didn't think it was horrible, although I do agree it was disjointed. But, those who think it means Higley was back probably have a fair point in believing that. Those that are convinced it's all Ed screwing up probably have a fair point in believing that as well. But, in the end, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that somebody fixes it -- soon.
I agree with you but thatīs the point. I donīt know what exact position Higley had in Reillyīs writing team but her name was always first after Reilly in the credits so I donīt think she was just one from many. Of course she knows something about draging things too much. But the scenes might had been repeating and the story had been slow but the direction was clear. Now itīs just contrary. We have important stuff appearing literally out of nowhere and rushing things beyond reason. As Phoenix said it really looks like there is neverending flipflopping between Ed and Denaīs vision, so what Dena starts as huge dramatic event, Ed suddenly writes out like as afterthought.

Yes, fortunatelly we know it will end soon because from I heard Gary Tomlin not only brought in his personal favorite as CoHW, but also recreated the writing team so the responsibility of each member is clear. I just donīt like this "show is bad, Higley is back, show is good, that must be Ed" attitude when it even doesnīt make any sense timewise.
Edited by jane1978, Sep 3 2008, 10:12 AM.
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esp13
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Days4Life
Sep 3 2008, 09:44 AM
You make some great points. Higley has a habit of dragging things out just a little too long, to the point no one cares any more. There's a fine line between building the suspense and hooking your audience or losing them due to boredom and she doesn't know where that line is. My biggest problems with her are pacing and the lack of a proper pay-off. Most of her stories have ended with a whimper instead of a bang--the Kate/Daniel reveal, Ava, Max's rages, even Nicole's big secret, which was talked about and built up for weeks and was finally revealed in a very lackluster way. She has to learn to write her stories in a way that makes people care and want to tune in each day or she's never going to win people over. Some of her stories have promise at the beginning, but she bores us to tears with the repetition and lack of movement, only to rush the end.

I also don't know who's responsible for the material we're seeing right now, but whoever it is put together a Tuesday show that was a mess. I did enjoy the Stefano confrontation at the end of the show, but other than that, it seemed like random scenes were just thrown together, with no real thought or direction. Hopefully, it won't continue that way for long. Maybe the new EP will help, maybe the new co-HW will help, but something needs to happen...and I agree, it needs to be soon.
I agree that, on paper, many of Higley's ideas have sounded pretty good. Bo's illness, Ava's obsession, Max's father, NuJohn, the Kiriakis/DiMera dock wars, all had loads of potential, but the execution ranged from awful to mediocre at best. The stalling and repetition turn people off of the best conceivd storylines, and then when you do suffer all the way through a storyline and get absolutely no payoff for it, it only increases the irritation levels.

Quote:
 
I agree with you but thatīs the point. I donīt know what exact position Higley had in Reillyīs writing team but her name was always first after Reilly in the credits so I donīt think she was just one from many. Of course she knows something about draging things too much. But the scenes might had been repeating and the story had been slow but the direction was clear. Now itīs just contrary. We have important stuff appearing literally out of nowhere and rushing things beyond reason. As Phoenix said it really looks like there is neverending flipflopping between Ed and Denaīs vision, so what Dena starts as huge dramatic event, Ed suddenly writes out like as afterthought.


Well, I'd actualy disagree about there being any clear direction last spring either. The Ava story started out as an obsession by a crazy woman and turned into the "love" story of Patch and Ava that was much more about Ava being drugged than about Steve and Kayla. Bo's illness started out as a meaty story for Bo and Hope and turned into a story about Chelsea. J&M started out as a new love story with John falling in love with Marlena again and turned into . . . well, something else entirely for long stretches of time.

Now, maybe some of those changes were because Ed stepped in. I don't know. Again, I don't much care. But, just as you don't like people saying "this is bad so it must be Dena, and this is good so it must be Ed," I don't have much reason to believe that Ed is 100% responsible for all the bad things that have happened since the spring. I'm quite sure there is plenty of blame to go around. All I hope is that things get better in a hurry.

ETA: I realize you aren't saying it's all 100% Ed's fault either. I'm just trying to make the point that, in my opinion, there were plenty of flaws with the spring stuff, too.
Edited by esp13, Sep 3 2008, 10:46 AM.
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Kyrai


esp13
Sep 3 2008, 10:38 AM
Days4Life
Sep 3 2008, 09:44 AM
You make some great points. Higley has a habit of dragging things out just a little too long, to the point no one cares any more. There's a fine line between building the suspense and hooking your audience or losing them due to boredom and she doesn't know where that line is. My biggest problems with her are pacing and the lack of a proper pay-off. Most of her stories have ended with a whimper instead of a bang--the Kate/Daniel reveal, Ava, Max's rages, even Nicole's big secret, which was talked about and built up for weeks and was finally revealed in a very lackluster way. She has to learn to write her stories in a way that makes people care and want to tune in each day or she's never going to win people over. Some of her stories have promise at the beginning, but she bores us to tears with the repetition and lack of movement, only to rush the end.

I also don't know who's responsible for the material we're seeing right now, but whoever it is put together a Tuesday show that was a mess. I did enjoy the Stefano confrontation at the end of the show, but other than that, it seemed like random scenes were just thrown together, with no real thought or direction. Hopefully, it won't continue that way for long. Maybe the new EP will help, maybe the new co-HW will help, but something needs to happen...and I agree, it needs to be soon.
I agree that, on paper, many of Higley's ideas have sounded pretty good. Bo's illness, Ava's obsession, Max's father, NuJohn, the Kiriakis/DiMera dock wars, all had loads of potential, but the execution ranged from awful to mediocre at best. The stalling and repetition turn people off of the best conceivd storylines, and then when you do suffer all the way through a storyline and get absolutely no payoff for it, it only increases the irritation levels.

Quote:
 
I agree with you but thatīs the point. I donīt know what exact position Higley had in Reillyīs writing team but her name was always first after Reilly in the credits so I donīt think she was just one from many. Of course she knows something about draging things too much. But the scenes might had been repeating and the story had been slow but the direction was clear. Now itīs just contrary. We have important stuff appearing literally out of nowhere and rushing things beyond reason. As Phoenix said it really looks like there is neverending flipflopping between Ed and Denaīs vision, so what Dena starts as huge dramatic event, Ed suddenly writes out like as afterthought.


Well, I'd actualy disagree about there being any clear direction last spring either. The Ava story started out as an obsession by a crazy woman and turned into the "love" story of Patch and Ava that was much more about Ava being drugged than about Steve and Kayla. Bo's illness started out as a meaty story for Bo and Hope and turned into a story about Chelsea. J&M started out as a new love story with John falling in love with Marlena again and turned into . . . well, something else entirely for long stretches of time.

Now, maybe some of those changes were because Ed stepped in. I don't know. Again, I don't much care. But, just as you don't like people saying "this is bad so it must be Dena, and this is good so it must be Ed," I don't have much reason to believe that Ed is 100% responsible for all the bad things that have happened since the spring. I'm quite sure there is plenty of blame to go around. All I hope is that things get better in a hurry.

ETA: I realize you aren't saying it's all 100% Ed's fault either. I'm just trying to make the point that, in my opinion, there were plenty of flaws with the spring stuff, too.
ITA!

Even with good story ideas, the execution was poor at best. I did not see any direction. I'd see movement one day, thinking we're finally going somewhere and the next it was like the prior day never happened. It was more like Higley couldn't decide what she wanted and kept flip flopping back and forth while she decided.

It was amateurish, actually that's an insult to amateurs because I've read some very nicely focused stories by amateur writers. I'd say it was more like one of those stories where friends get together and start writing a story together, someone writes a segment, then the next one goes, etc, and they have no idea where they're going, they just enjoy adding to the story. I'm not knocking those, they're fun, but its not what you expect from a professional in a television show. It was and is very frustrating to see Higley just destroy history and these characters. Sure, what we're seeing now may not be her, but yesterday and today seem to be back to unbalanced incoherent writing, and everything I've read about her indicates this is her trademark. I do not know of a single 'good' thing that she was responsible for.

The timeline also seems to fit to me based on what I read. Summer was awful. Higley walks out due to Ed rewriting her mess, she comes back, stories briefly got good (I think it was mentioned here that these were Ed's segments), now they are back to what they used to be. I can totally buy that Ed hated her stories so badly that he couldn't help but fix them. jmo.

I hope this is all a moot point with new writers, but I hope they take control quick!
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