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Days: Weekly Discussion; Week Of 9/8
Topic Started: Sep 8 2008, 10:22 PM (3,194 Views)
Miss Rhi
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"If Sami can't find happiness with a Martian, then she can't find happiness with anyone."

Discuss this weeks good and baaaaad goings on in Salem U.S.A........


Days Classic Clip: Jennifer, Mike & Ivy - 11/4/85

Ivy meets Jennifer


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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Glad someone started a thread...

Today was pretty good. Lots of vets and story movement.

I really enjoyed the Tony, Kate, Anna, Lexie stuff. This Dimera story is going very well so far. Tony and Lexie's conversation had a nice tension and foreboding feel to it. I also like the dynamic between Kate and Anna now. I appreciate how they are building up to this illness story for Kate. They do alot with that tomorrow too. It was also nice to see Anna/Morgan scenes. They have a nice chemistry. I'm glad they acknowledged Morgan's working with Tony before. The Tony/Philip scenes were fun too. Hope to see him become a part of the Dimera story too.

I did enjoy what little Lucas/Philip we got. Hope to get more. Sami/EJ was actually pretty good today. I'm glad they took the time to explain Sami's position and using her past with not having parents around and all the trauma was a nice way to present her views. I LOVED when EJ mentioned to Sami how she needs to just stop making things worse. He was so right. Glad EJ's schemes came up too. Nice seeing the twins too and I have to say the John/Sami scenes were my faves. I love how John supported her, citing how he knows what trauma is like. Ali and Drake were good in that scene. You could tell their real life feelings for each other were showing through. The end was good with Sami vowing to do something about the Allie situation. Sami is starting to act more in character. They have a ways to go but they are on the right track.

J&M had some good scenes too. Dee's acting was a bit off but I appreciated the way she presented Marlena telling John about her possible date with Trent. She was hesitant and it worked. I also liked that they used the old Santeen music in the first scene and that string like music for the scene in the third segment. I love those themes.

It was nice to see Bo and Hope have some cute scenes. I love simple stuff like that.

I've seen tomorrow's and I was shocked by how much I liked Lucas/Chloe. They felt real for the first time. I found them highly relatable and the rest of the show tomorrow is solid too.

I know I'm in the minority but the show has actually picked up steam for me since the Olympics. It was good before and during the Olympics but I much prefer seeing the focus on multiple stories like this. I'm enjoying the simple stuff we are getting, the great character interactions, and the balance is very good. I just hope it continues.
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Ellie


PhoenixRising05
Sep 8 2008, 11:35 PM
J&M had some good scenes too. Dee's acting was a bit off but I appreciated the way she presented Marlena telling John about her possible date with Trent. She was hesitant and it worked. I also liked that they used the old Santeen music in the first scene and that string like music for the scene in the third segment. I love those themes.
I'm watching it now and feeling bad for her because the writing is SO terrible for Marlena. It just makes no sense at all. It's not just that it's out of character (which it is) - it's like "out of storyline". It has nothing at all to do with how J&M have been written this year.

Oh and I noticed the Santeen music right away. Hate it. Why do they have to use it for J&M? Why not keep it for Santeen/Sami & EJ? Is it too much to ask for a couple to have its own music?
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cassie1013


^ LOL it probably costs too much money to create a song for everyone. That irish inspired music is pretty bad imo, I can't stand it.
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Ellie


cassie1013
Sep 9 2008, 12:45 AM
^ LOL it probably costs too much money to create a song for everyone. That irish inspired music is pretty bad imo, I can't stand it.
lol the music is not my taste either. True, it probably is budget-related, but I'm sure if they go back in history, at least for J&M, S&K and B&H, they can find a song or theme that's been used for them before.
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Ellie


This is the first show in years (literally) that I've wanted to turn off before Marlena's scenes are over. Congrats, Dena - quite an accomplishment.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Ellie
Sep 9 2008, 12:40 AM
PhoenixRising05
Sep 8 2008, 11:35 PM
J&M had some good scenes too. Dee's acting was a bit off but I appreciated the way she presented Marlena telling John about her possible date with Trent. She was hesitant and it worked. I also liked that they used the old Santeen music in the first scene and that string like music for the scene in the third segment. I love those themes.
I'm watching it now and feeling bad for her because the writing is SO terrible for Marlena. It just makes no sense at all. It's not just that it's out of character (which it is) - it's like "out of storyline". It has nothing at all to do with how J&M have been written this year.

Oh and I noticed the Santeen music right away. Hate it. Why do they have to use it for J&M? Why not keep it for Santeen/Sami & EJ? Is it too much to ask for a couple to have its own music?
I actually felt like her acting was off more then the writing. Other then playing the hesitancy of openly telling John about Trent's invitation, I felt she was all over the place. Say what you want about the writing but an actor's job is to make some sense out of what is given to them. I love Dee but she is not one to always rise above her material. JMO.

Sure, this isn't how J&M have been written this year because it's now John pursuing Marlena and not Marlena pursuing John. Up until a few weeks ago, the push was on Marlena's end. That is why it's different. I don't think Marlena is necessarily out of character. She's taking control and I think, more or less, she's pushing John away because she's afraid they will hurt each other. They were in this push-pull for so long and she got hurt and so did he because she kept comparing him to the "old" John. She and others drove him to take extreme measures to define himself because of those comparisons. It makes total sense. She realized that her obsession with trying to get this John to be her John or to try to get her John back caused her to lose herself. That was the whole idea of them focusing on her putting Stefano in a coma. To show she had been pushed to do things that weren't things she would do. I think Marlena really wants to give him a chance but is just fearful of what they will do to each other if she does. That is why she is forcing the Trent issue. I think he just came along at the right time. She needed to prove to herself she can do this and try to move on and needed to prove to John she is serious but it's only on the surface because, deep down, she's hurting like hell. That is why I liked the hesitancy when she spoke about Trent possibly taking her out. It fit.

As for the music. they did alter the Santeen thing. It doesn't have the Irish flutes anymore so I don't mind it. They actually used it during some of the flashbacks at John's funeral in October. Since he is Santeen's son, I think it's ok. The show can't go back to the old music because I believe the good stuff for the supercouples was all done by Marty Davich and he is no longer with the show. It's definitely a budget-related issue but I do like the music. It fit the scenes perfectly IMO.
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darraholic
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The Queen

Why the hell were Bo & Hope having a romantic picnic at a playground?
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Mason


darraholic
Sep 9 2008, 01:17 AM
Why the hell were Bo & Hope having a romantic picnic at a playground?
I'm surprised they weren't having it at the hospital or the DiMera mansion.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

darraholic
Sep 9 2008, 01:17 AM
Why the hell were Bo & Hope having a romantic picnic at a playground?
Now that is a good question.

Can't blame Dena for that one. A crew member should've had enough sense to notice that.
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Ellie


PhoenixRising05
Sep 9 2008, 01:15 AM
I actually felt like her acting was off more then the writing. Other then playing the hesitancy of openly telling John about Trent's invitation, I felt she was all over the place. Say what you want about the writing but an actor's job is to make some sense out of what is given to them. I love Dee but she is not one to always rise above her material. JMO.
Which scenes or moments do you think she should have done differently, and how do you think she should have played them?

Quote:
 
Sure, this isn't how J&M have been written this year because it's now John pursuing Marlena and not Marlena pursuing John. Up until a few weeks ago, the push was on Marlena's end. That is why it's different. I don't think Marlena is necessarily out of character. She's taking control and I think, more or less, she's pushing John away because she's afraid they will hurt each other. They were in this push-pull for so long and she got hurt and so did he because she kept comparing him to the "old" John. She and others drove him to take extreme measures to define himself because of those comparisons. It makes total sense. She realized that her obsession with trying to get this John to be her John or to try to get her John back caused her to lose herself. That was the whole idea of them focusing on her putting Stefano in a coma. To show she had been pushed to do things that weren't things she would do. I think Marlena really wants to give him a chance but is just fearful of what they will do to each other if she does. That is why she is forcing the Trent issue. I think he just came along at the right time. She needed to prove to herself she can do this and try to move on and needed to prove to John she is serious but it's only on the surface because, deep down, she's hurting like hell. That is why I liked the hesitancy when she spoke about Trent possibly taking her out. It fit.
Marlena had been hoping for months that John would give her a chance and acknowledge the fact that they're married. He finally did, and once she realized he was sincere, they kissed and made love. She cried as they kissed, and her tears were a mixture of love, joy and relief that John had such deep feelings for her. So you're telling me that just a few "Salem days" after that, Marlena can completely change her mind and decide to get back at John by seeing someone else? Not only that, but ask him for a divorce? John is saying the words she's waited so long to hear, and now she decides 'too little, too late', and that they should completely end their decades-long relationship?

Quote:
 
As for the music. they did alter the Santeen thing. It doesn't have the Irish flutes anymore so I don't mind it. They actually used it during some of the flashbacks at John's funeral in October. Since he is Santeen's son, I think it's ok. The show can't go back to the old music because I believe the good stuff for the supercouples was all done by Marty Davich and he is no longer with the show. It's definitely a budget-related issue but I do like the music. It fit the scenes perfectly IMO.
Well, lol, that's why I said that the Santeen music isn't my taste - it is subjective. And lol I've hated every time that they've used it for J&M, not just this one. (I realize they've used it for them before.)
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Ellie


PhoenixRising05
Sep 9 2008, 01:19 AM
darraholic
Sep 9 2008, 01:17 AM
Why the hell were Bo & Hope having a romantic picnic at a playground?
Now that is a good question.

Can't blame Dena for that one. A crew member should've had enough sense to notice that.
They probably didn't have another set available .
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Ellie
Sep 9 2008, 01:34 AM
PhoenixRising05
Sep 9 2008, 01:15 AM
I actually felt like her acting was off more then the writing. Other then playing the hesitancy of openly telling John about Trent's invitation, I felt she was all over the place. Say what you want about the writing but an actor's job is to make some sense out of what is given to them. I love Dee but she is not one to always rise above her material. JMO.
Which scenes or moments do you think she should have done differently, and how do you think she should have played them?

Quote:
 
Sure, this isn't how J&M have been written this year because it's now John pursuing Marlena and not Marlena pursuing John. Up until a few weeks ago, the push was on Marlena's end. That is why it's different. I don't think Marlena is necessarily out of character. She's taking control and I think, more or less, she's pushing John away because she's afraid they will hurt each other. They were in this push-pull for so long and she got hurt and so did he because she kept comparing him to the "old" John. She and others drove him to take extreme measures to define himself because of those comparisons. It makes total sense. She realized that her obsession with trying to get this John to be her John or to try to get her John back caused her to lose herself. That was the whole idea of them focusing on her putting Stefano in a coma. To show she had been pushed to do things that weren't things she would do. I think Marlena really wants to give him a chance but is just fearful of what they will do to each other if she does. That is why she is forcing the Trent issue. I think he just came along at the right time. She needed to prove to herself she can do this and try to move on and needed to prove to John she is serious but it's only on the surface because, deep down, she's hurting like hell. That is why I liked the hesitancy when she spoke about Trent possibly taking her out. It fit.
Marlena had been hoping for months that John would give her a chance and acknowledge the fact that they're married. He finally did, and once she realized he was sincere, they kissed and made love. She cried as they kissed, and her tears were a mixture of love, joy and relief that John had such deep feelings for her. So you're telling me that just a few "Salem days" after that, Marlena can completely change her mind and decide to get back at John by seeing someone else? Not only that, but ask him for a divorce? John is saying the words she's waited so long to hear, and now she decides 'too little, too late', and they should completely end their decades-long relationship?

Quote:
 
As for the music. they did alter the Santeen thing. It doesn't have the Irish flutes anymore so I don't mind it. They actually used it during some of the flashbacks at John's funeral in October. Since he is Santeen's son, I think it's ok. The show can't go back to the old music because I believe the good stuff for the supercouples was all done by Marty Davich and he is no longer with the show. It's definitely a budget-related issue but I do like the music. It fit the scenes perfectly IMO.
Well, that's why I said that the Santeen music isn't my taste - obviously it's subjective. And lol I've hated every time that they've used it for J&M, not just this one. (I realize they've used it for them before.)
As I said, with the exception of the moment where she mentioned Trent asking her out, she played it all wrong. She didn't come off as strong. She came off as jelly. I wanted her to play it like she did in the scenes with Eve Plumb or even like she did in the hospital scenes with John and Roman. She seemed certain, defiant. She made up her mind and that was that. You could still tell she was hurting but she had more conviction behind her words. Today it felt hollow and that has nothing to do with the writing. It's all in Dee's projection and interpretation and it was all wrong. She played her far too weak and conflicted today when she's supposed to be strong and sure of herself, at least on the surface.

I get what your saying but are you forgetting what John did after they kissed and had sex? He celebrated, like it was a conquest. That made Marlena think it was about nothing more then him accomplishing a mission. It wasn't about what they were feeling. It wasn't romantic. It was just sex. It was almost like a young male who finds himself obsessed with dating and having sex with a hot girl. Once he does it, he wants to move on to another prize because the fun is in the chase. That is how Marlena felt. She made up her mind to try move on despite not really being sold on it yet and then he lays it on thick in her office. She gives in and, after they have sex, he make it appear like he has learned nothing. That's reasonable and I think is a valid reason for why she is doing what she is doing. She wants to prove to him she is serious about her decision, even though she still hates doing this. I really don't understand what is so bad about it because it makes perfect sense to me. I'm not a J&M fan but I like both actors and, currently, like both characters since Marlena is not all about John anymore. I see it all coming together nicely but, then again, I'm one of the few who has felt that way since the beginning. I was glad they also mentioned Ava today. That added alot to the scenes too.

As for the "decades long relationship," this is not her John so I don't think that matters. I think she's come to the point where looking at him is like looking at a picture of her John. He's there for her to see and he evokes memories for her but it's not him.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Ellie
Sep 9 2008, 01:35 AM
PhoenixRising05
Sep 9 2008, 01:19 AM
darraholic
Sep 9 2008, 01:17 AM
Why the hell were Bo & Hope having a romantic picnic at a playground?
Now that is a good question.

Can't blame Dena for that one. A crew member should've had enough sense to notice that.
They probably didn't have another set available .
Yeah but all you have to do is remove the playground parts of the set. That's not so hard. Either that or shoot the scenes from an angle where they can't be seen.
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Ellie


PhoenixRising05
Sep 9 2008, 01:51 AM
As I said, with the exception of the moment where she mentioned Trent asking her out, she played it all wrong. She didn't come off as strong. She came off as jelly. I wanted her to play it like she did in the scenes with Eve Plumb or even like she did in the hospital scenes with John and Roman. She seemed certain, defiant. She made up her mind and that was that. You could still tell she was hurting but she had more conviction behind her words. Today it felt hollow and that has nothing to do with the writing. It's all in Dee's projection and interpretation and it was all wrong. She played her far too weak and conflicted today when she's supposed to be strong and sure of herself, at least on the surface.

I get what your saying but are you forgetting what John did after they kissed and had sex? He celebrated, like it was a conquest. That made Marlena think it was about nothing more then him accomplishing a mission. It wasn't about what they were feeling. It wasn't romantic. It was just sex. It was almost like a young male who finds himself obsessed with dating and having sex with a hot girl. Once he does it, he wants to move on to another prize because the fun is in the chase. That is how Marlena felt. She made up her mind to try move on despite not really being sold on it yet and then he lays it on thick in her office. She gives in and, after they have sex, he make it appear like he has learned nothing. That's reasonable and I think is a valid reason for why she is doing what she is doing. She wants to prove to him she is serious about her decision, even though she still hates doing this. I really don't understand what is so bad about it because it makes perfect sense to me. I'm not a J&M fan but I like both actors and, currently, like both characters since Marlena is not all about John anymore. I see it all coming together nicely but, then again, I'm one of the few who has felt that way since the beginning. I was glad they also mentioned Ava today. That added alot to the scenes too.

I think my response to both of these paragraphs is the same, which is that the writing didn't support that John thought it was "just sex". He said the 'conquest' line didn't come out like he meant it to, Marlena agreed to go back to the mansion with him, he told her they made love (not "had sex"), and then they kissed. So, after that, any doubts that Marlena had as to his sincerity would have disappeared. That's why I think Deidre's playing it like she is, tearfully and hesitatingly rather than forcefully. It wouldn't make sense for Marlena to be forceful at this point. I think you even alluded to that when you said this was on the surface but 'deep down, she's hurting like hell.' I think that's what's coming out in Deidre's performance.


Quote:
 
As for the "decades long relationship," this is not her John so I don't think that matters. I think she's come to the point where looking at him is like looking at a picture of her John. He's there for her to see and he evokes memories for her but it's not him.
Well, I understand what you're saying, but right after John slept with Ava, Marlena reminded John that she and he are married, and that his sleeping with Ava constituted infidelity. Now that John is basically admitting she's right, why would she take a whole new point of view that this isn't her John anymore? She hasn't had that point of view at all since John came back. She told him in the hospital that she's loved him for over half of her life, and that was after her conversation with Sam.
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Kevc1980
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Don't really feel like watching the show, been kind of bored with the last few episodes..I'll save them on the dvr and watch later in the week..
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Ellie
Sep 9 2008, 02:07 AM
PhoenixRising05
Sep 9 2008, 01:51 AM
As I said, with the exception of the moment where she mentioned Trent asking her out, she played it all wrong. She didn't come off as strong. She came off as jelly. I wanted her to play it like she did in the scenes with Eve Plumb or even like she did in the hospital scenes with John and Roman. She seemed certain, defiant. She made up her mind and that was that. You could still tell she was hurting but she had more conviction behind her words. Today it felt hollow and that has nothing to do with the writing. It's all in Dee's projection and interpretation and it was all wrong. She played her far too weak and conflicted today when she's supposed to be strong and sure of herself, at least on the surface.

I get what your saying but are you forgetting what John did after they kissed and had sex? He celebrated, like it was a conquest. That made Marlena think it was about nothing more then him accomplishing a mission. It wasn't about what they were feeling. It wasn't romantic. It was just sex. It was almost like a young male who finds himself obsessed with dating and having sex with a hot girl. Once he does it, he wants to move on to another prize because the fun is in the chase. That is how Marlena felt. She made up her mind to try move on despite not really being sold on it yet and then he lays it on thick in her office. She gives in and, after they have sex, he make it appear like he has learned nothing. That's reasonable and I think is a valid reason for why she is doing what she is doing. She wants to prove to him she is serious about her decision, even though she still hates doing this. I really don't understand what is so bad about it because it makes perfect sense to me. I'm not a J&M fan but I like both actors and, currently, like both characters since Marlena is not all about John anymore. I see it all coming together nicely but, then again, I'm one of the few who has felt that way since the beginning. I was glad they also mentioned Ava today. That added alot to the scenes too.

I think my response to both of these paragraphs is the same, which is that the writing didn't support that John thought it was "just sex". He said the 'conquest' line didn't come out like he meant it to, Marlena agreed to go back to the mansion with him, he told her they made love (not "had sex"), and then they kissed. So, after that, any doubts that Marlena had as to his sincerity would have disappeared. That's why I think Deidre's playing it like she is, tearfully and hesitatingly rather than forcefully. It wouldn't make sense for Marlena to be forceful at this point. I think you even alluded to that when you said this was on the surface but 'deep down, she's hurting like hell.' I think that's what's coming out in Deidre's performance.


Quote:
 
As for the "decades long relationship," this is not her John so I don't think that matters. I think she's come to the point where looking at him is like looking at a picture of her John. He's there for her to see and he evokes memories for her but it's not him.
Well, I understand what you're saying, but right after John slept with Ava, Marlena reminded John that she and he are married, and that his sleeping with Ava constituted infidelity. Now that John is basically admitting she's right, why would she take a whole new point of view that this isn't her John anymore? She hasn't had that point of view at all since John came back. She told him in the hospital that she's loved him for over half of her life, and that was after her conversation with Sam.
See, I disagree. Yes, he said it didn't come out right but how is she supposed to know that? He has always been doing stuff like that. She doesn't know for sure this time is any different. For her, it's just him backtracking and realizing he screwed up and him just trying to desperately fix it. She went home with him because Lexie would not release her to be by herself and that kiss was all John. He forced it on her and she didn't really react all that well to it. I'm sure she liked it but she seemed more put off. I guess this is just another thing we are on opposite sides on. Maybe it's because I;m not a J&M fan or something. I don't need the show to spell everything out for me. I can see what I need in the performances and can even make sense of it myself without them giving me anything. Looking back on everything as a whole, it just makes sense to me, from start to finish.

As for your other point, the difference is she's now accepted this isn't her John. She admitted she refused to admit it to herself for so long. The lockdown and Sam made her realize she had to and that she had to move on. For her sake, for her family's sake, and for John's. She doesn't really want to and it hurts but it's what she thinks is best. When she was telling him she loved him for half of her life, it was more about who he used to be. He's the same body but he's not the same person. His name is John but it isn't John. She can say things to him because it's still him but she may as well be telling a stranger. It's just John in name only.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Kevc1980
Sep 9 2008, 02:08 AM
Don't really feel like watching the show, been kind of bored with the last few episodes..I'll save them on the dvr and watch later in the week..
Well, considering you enjoyed the Dimera stuff last week and seem to be a fan of vets and character interaction, I think you should watch, Kev. I think you would really enjoy Monday's for sure.
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DolceDiMera
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The only thing remotely interesting about today's show was the interaction between Tony and Philip. Everything else was a waste of an hour.
Edited by DolceDiMera, Sep 9 2008, 03:03 AM.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

LOL. Days has become my "5 in the morning sound to go with the exercise bike", so I didn't see all the first episode. (Gimme a break. I have to ease my way back on the bike after knee surgery! LOL). I had to stop about the time Lexie had her talk with Tony and Lucas and Philip talked.
I get a sense that EJ is getting totally frustrated with Sami. Now, whether that's EJ's exasperation or JS's exasperation at the writing remains to be seen. It still came across great. Tim is right. Little glimpses of the irrational Sami are coming into play here. This whole bit about Chloe being a monster? That's jealousy, plain and simple. I just had to laugh at Sami's list of Lucas's sins. Who in the heck in Salem, if you get right down to it, is REALLY considered a fit parent, if you dig into the backgrounds? Maybe Kayla.
Loved Tony and Kate, Tony and Anna, Tony and Lexie. Lexie is so watchable with others.
I would also have to agree with Tim about DHer's acting, but then again, I tend to think her acting choices are usually wrong. The few times I like her acting is when she is strong and solid and doesn't have the airy quality to her voice. The damsel in distress or wishy-washiness doesn't cut it for me for a woman who has been around for more than 30 years (and a career woman thirty years ago, not a teenager). I just get the feeling she's on this date to play games with John or make him jealous or to see how he reacts. But, then again, I don't like Marlena, so I may or may not be objective on this. I'll admit it.
Bo and Hope were cute. I didn't even notice the playground equipment. But liverworst? Blech.
I'll have to comment later after more bike riding, LOL>
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