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DAYS:Daily spoilers for wk of 9/15
Topic Started: Sep 13 2008, 02:46 PM (3,873 Views)
JustJo
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Yep...I'm sure Marlena would accept Stefano's invitation to a cocktail party at his mansion. And then she will confess what she has already confessed numerous times and everyone will be shocked at this reveal. Good grief! How lame!
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naley12
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I have watched mondays show and Lucas and Chloe are not in and I am taking this as a good sign that they are finally taking care of that terrible couple
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Sindacco
Sep 14 2008, 05:43 AM
dorothyg
Sep 13 2008, 08:14 PM
James and Renee deserve air time just like everyone else, and it's about time they had a decent s/l and aren't on the backburner for this s/l. :biggrin:
Yes but the rabid fans thinks that the only ones over 40 that should have their own stories are the supercouples.
Yep, which is another issue for Days. The show has become more about couples then drama. I have to laugh because a year ago fans were calling for balance and now we have it and characters like Abe and Lexie have story and they are complaining that their faves have no story or what have you. Just goes to show you...MOST (not all) fanbases are out for their own agenda. They will deny it to high heaven but it's true. They cry for balance and get it but hate to see their faves share the spotlight. Just look at how many complained about Abe and Lexie getting this story. I mean, they are vets too. Jim Reynolds has been with this show on and off since 1981 and RJ has played two characters and been here for nearly 2 decades but because they aren't a supercouple they aren't allowed? It seriously is downright disturbing. Yes, Corday and the writers deserve the blame but the selfish fans who worry more about their own damn agenda are killing soaps too. In order for Days and all soaps to survive, some of these fans will have to start looking at hat is best for the show AS A WHOLE and push for that. I don't see it ever happening but if some of these fans ever cared about the show, they will do it.

As for the spoilers, clearly we are heading into a transition. Toups mentioned it on SON and said Tomlin should be seen in credits this week. Monday reeks of a transition episode with some parts seemingly being cut. It sucks because Days can't afford stuff like that with the ratings the way they are but it's understandable considering the upheaval and they will save money only using a few characters and one set Monday. I think this week will be full of filler, flashbacks, and recap with some story movement so I would be prepared for that.

Edited by PhoenixRising05, Sep 15 2008, 12:17 AM.
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Flying Monkey
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Kevc1980
Sep 13 2008, 04:17 PM
Loving having Abe and Lexie on the frontburner...After so many devoted years, Renee and James really deserve the story and airtime..
I've always considered the characters of Abe and Lexie to be supporting characters rather than main characters.

I really don't think this story is about them either. Besides being a vehicle to champion Higley's pet cause it will simply end with a rift between Abe and Lexie and yet another excuse for Lexie to become romantically involved with some other guy again. Knowing Higley she'll probably have Abe cheating too, thinking that will excuse Lexie's conduct. Abe has always been one of my favorite secondary characters and he deserve so much better.

I think it will also be an excuse to promote Chelsea being all grown up and a young career woman, so Higley can pursue round two of Chelsea and Dr. Dan thinking it will make it less icky.
Edited by Flying Monkey, Sep 15 2008, 11:46 AM.
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madelinehawaii


Flying Monkey
Sep 15 2008, 11:43 AM
Kevc1980
Sep 13 2008, 04:17 PM
Loving having Abe and Lexie on the frontburner...After so many devoted years, Renee and James really deserve the story and airtime..
I've always considered the characters of Abe and Lexie to be supporting characters rather than main characters.

I really don't think this story is about them either. Besides being a vehicle to champion Higley's pet cause it will simply end with a rift between Abe and Lexie and yet another excuse for Lexie to become romantically involved with some other guy again. Knowing Higley she'll probably have Abe cheating too, thinking that will excuse Lexie's conduct. Abe has always been one of my favorite secondary characters and he deserve so much better.

I think it will also be an excuse to promote Chelsea being all grown up and a young career woman, so Higley can pursue round two of Chelsea and Dr. Dan thinking it will make it less icky.
you like him supporting your favorites so much (which is what he's spent years doing), he shouldn't be a leading character? That is your idea of the character deserving more?? ouch
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Flying Monkey
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JohnandMarlenaFreak
Sep 13 2008, 04:44 PM
Amello
Sep 13 2008, 04:27 PM
I havent been watching for a few weeks now so I have a question. Are John and Marlena still legally married?
Yes,if she could still be married to that stupid Alex North after over 20 years years of him supposedly being dead,she can still be married to John after a few months of supposedly being dead.


This week sounds like a snoozer,even the party,Just about everyone there knows what Marlena did to to the skum,Stefano's just doing it for his own sense of pride.
I still like to think Alex was some imposter and never really married to Marlena. :wink: And yes I think John and Marlena are still legally married, John has mentioned that several times recently.

This week does sound like a complete :sleep2:! This whole party thing to expose Marlena is so ridiculous since everyone for the most part already knows. It's just more typical Higley disjointed event writing.
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Flying Monkey
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madelinehawaii
Sep 15 2008, 12:12 PM
Quote:
 
I've always considered the characters of Abe and Lexie to be supporting characters rather than main characters.

I really don't think this story is about them either. Besides being a vehicle to champion Higley's pet cause it will simply end with a rift between Abe and Lexie and yet another excuse for Lexie to become romantically involved with some other guy again. Knowing Higley she'll probably have Abe cheating too, thinking that will excuse Lexie's conduct. Abe has always been one of my favorite secondary characters and he deserve so much better.

I think it will also be an excuse to promote Chelsea being all grown up and a young career woman, so Higley can pursue round two of Chelsea and Dr. Dan thinking it will make it less icky.
you like him supporting your favorites so much (which is what he's spent years doing), he shouldn't be a leading character? That is your idea of the character deserving more?? ouch
There are main characters and supporting characters always have been always will be, it's as simple as that. Not everyone can be lead character. Yes I like some supporting characters in supporting roles, supporting my favorites or not.

As far as the character of Abe being more deserving I was referring to Lexie and her tendencies to chase after other men. Abe does deserve better than Lexie. And just like so many other characters James Reynolds deserves to have Abe well written and true to character instead of as a catalyst for Lexie to cheat again.
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Mason
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I do want to point out that just because a character is "supporting" doesn't necessarily mean he/she doesn't get good material. Being the lead really means nothing in terms of story quality.
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Flying Monkey
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Sindacco
Sep 13 2008, 05:36 PM
Frankly I'm sick of the show trying to recapture the 80s.
I don't think that the show is trying to recapture the 80's. For the past eight or nine years now Days has done the complete opposite of that. They threw out the formula that worked. I want to stress the world formula here, I'm not talking about individual characters or couples but about method. And opted instead to pursue their own agendas and visions and completely ignore what the audience wanted.

Days was around for fifteen or so years before the golden hayday of the 80's. It was a popular show, Ted Corday followed a strict formula and always considered what the audience wanted or thought first and that worked well for a very long time.

The new formula was to hire the most talentless hacks available. With a penchant for those recently fired for driving down the ratings on other shows. Flood the show with newbies and teens, the prettiest and most vapid underwear models around and then shove them down the audience's throat. Rewrite history at every turn, not just changing minor facts or dates around but entire histories obliterated. And one of Higley's favorites, let's give everybody their own boring story.

That's done wonders for the ratings hasn't it? Nine years of decline and people wonder why the fans pine for the good old Days. :shrug:
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Flying Monkey
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Mason
Sep 15 2008, 01:15 PM
I do want to point out that just because a character is "supporting" doesn't necessarily mean he/she doesn't get good material. Being the lead really means nothing in terms of story quality.
Both lead and supporting characters are sorely lacking in good material. Good material for a supporting character isn't synonymous with having their own storyline.
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Mason
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Flying Monkey
Sep 15 2008, 01:32 PM
Mason
Sep 15 2008, 01:15 PM
I do want to point out that just because a character is "supporting" doesn't necessarily mean he/she doesn't get good material. Being the lead really means nothing in terms of story quality.
Both lead and supporting characters are sorely lacking in good material. Good material for a supporting character isn't synonymous with having their own storyline.
Well, if you wanna split hairs, then yeah, LoL.
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Kyrai


Flying Monkey
Sep 15 2008, 01:28 PM
Sindacco
Sep 13 2008, 05:36 PM
Frankly I'm sick of the show trying to recapture the 80s.
I don't think that the show is trying to recapture the 80's. For the past eight or nine years now Days has done the complete opposite of that. They threw out the formula that worked. I want to stress the world formula here, I'm not talking about individual characters or couples but about method. And opted instead to pursue their own agendas and visions and completely ignore what the audience wanted.

Days was around for fifteen or so years before the golden hayday of the 80's. It was a popular show, Ted Corday followed a strict formula and always considered what the audience wanted or thought first and that worked well for a very long time.

The new formula was to hire the most talentless hacks available. With a penchant for those recently fired for driving down the ratings on other shows. Flood the show with newbies and teens, the prettiest and most vapid underwear models around and then shove them down the audience's throat. Rewrite history at every turn, not just changing minor facts or dates around but entire histories obliterated. And one of Higley's favorites, let's give everybody their own boring story.

That's done wonders for the ratings hasn't it? Nine years of decline and people wonder why the fans pine for the good old Days. :shrug:
I totally agree. I wish they WOULD try to capture the 80s formula. The writing was amazing.
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Sindacco
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madelinehawaii
Sep 15 2008, 12:12 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 15 2008, 11:43 AM
Kevc1980
Sep 13 2008, 04:17 PM
Loving having Abe and Lexie on the frontburner...After so many devoted years, Renee and James really deserve the story and airtime..
I've always considered the characters of Abe and Lexie to be supporting characters rather than main characters.

I really don't think this story is about them either. Besides being a vehicle to champion Higley's pet cause it will simply end with a rift between Abe and Lexie and yet another excuse for Lexie to become romantically involved with some other guy again. Knowing Higley she'll probably have Abe cheating too, thinking that will excuse Lexie's conduct. Abe has always been one of my favorite secondary characters and he deserve so much better.

I think it will also be an excuse to promote Chelsea being all grown up and a young career woman, so Higley can pursue round two of Chelsea and Dr. Dan thinking it will make it less icky.
you like him supporting your favorites so much (which is what he's spent years doing), he shouldn't be a leading character? That is your idea of the character deserving more?? ouch
My thoughts exactly.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Flying Monkey
Sep 15 2008, 01:28 PM
Sindacco
Sep 13 2008, 05:36 PM
Frankly I'm sick of the show trying to recapture the 80s.
I don't think that the show is trying to recapture the 80's. For the past eight or nine years now Days has done the complete opposite of that. They threw out the formula that worked. I want to stress the world formula here, I'm not talking about individual characters or couples but about method. And opted instead to pursue their own agendas and visions and completely ignore what the audience wanted.

Days was around for fifteen or so years before the golden hayday of the 80's. It was a popular show, Ted Corday followed a strict formula and always considered what the audience wanted or thought first and that worked well for a very long time.

The new formula was to hire the most talentless hacks available. With a penchant for those recently fired for driving down the ratings on other shows. Flood the show with newbies and teens, the prettiest and most vapid underwear models around and then shove them down the audience's throat. Rewrite history at every turn, not just changing minor facts or dates around but entire histories obliterated. And one of Higley's favorites, let's give everybody their own boring story.

That's done wonders for the ratings hasn't it? Nine years of decline and people wonder why the fans pine for the good old Days. :shrug:
Really? This show is still focusing on the same damn couples it was back then so how is that different? Everytime there is a plan to save Days it involves the same old tired devices. Supercouples, Stefano, romantic adventures, and what have you. That is not going to save Days. As I said in my last post, many fans have become selfish. It's all about what they want but not what is best for the show. Any fan can say that what they want is what will be good for the show but that isn't necessarily true. Days was an even better show before the 80's and before supercouples became the end all to be all. The show was about what soaps should be about to this-drama. Good, solid character driven drama. It didn't matter what characters had the stories. The show was an ENSEMBLE. That is what soaps are supposed to be yet, especially in Days' case, they aren't allowed to be because so many fans cry for the same old tired story ideas involving the same old characters. I love those characters but how much shit can they possibly go through? How many times can Bope go on a romantic adventure? How many times can J&M battle Stefano? For heaven's sake, Days had to "kill" John and reinvent the whole character just to give him and Marlena a story that was fresh. How sad is that?

The show has relied way too long on the same characters. Does that mean get rid of them? No. It just means that more emphasis should be on the future by now. In the 80's Days recognized that fact and pushed Bope, Steve/Kayla, etc on fans. It's long past time that happen again. Shelle could've led that or even Phelle. The young cast in the past few years is talented enough. Sure, the writing doesn't always back them up but alot of the time some fans don't even give them a chance. They just write them off because they are "newbies" or not one of their faves or couples. Some fans say that it's the show's job to make them interested in other characters and then they turn around and say they only watch their faves or what they want to watch. How can you learn to like any other characters or invest when you don't even take the time to try to invest or get used to them? It's the show's job but there have been times when the show did that job and it was lost on many fans because they only watched what they wanted.

The vets are important. They need to be featured but the issue is that many fans limit the story possibilities. Some will get upset the minute their couple has an argument or faces a threat to their relationship. They say they want angst but when they get it, they complain. Then you have the fact that these couples are beyond triangles and if a outside threat is introduced, fans complain that the story becomes more about the threat then the couple. Well, that is kind of the point since the threat to the couple is pretty much driving the story. Let's also remember that these very same fans call for the same things all the time...romance, adventures, supercouples. What many of these fans fail to realize is that not everyone wants that. Look at the ratings. Do you think they will go up if J&M are having their latest roll in the hay? Hell no. The ratings go up if there is plane crash and lives are in danger. Ratings are driven by plot movement and events. They are driven by drama. They no longer are driven by little moments that make soaps what they are. They don't fall at all in line with what many of these fans scream for. Not at all.

So, what is the show to do? Well, in no way should it abandon the little moments like family interaction, tradition, etc. It needs those but what the show needs to do is to combine all it's elements. Character-driven, plot-driven, camp, serious drama, supercouples, young cast...combine it all. Balance the cast and balance all these elements. Try to give every fan a piece of what they want. There is no pleasing anyone by focusing on just one aspect because pleasing one group will piss off another. Fans just need to understand that they won't always get what they want from ANY show because no one fan should be more important then another, just like no one character or couple should be. I think some fans, if they ever cared about this show, need to start considering and pushing for what is best for the show as a whole and not their own agenda. This show won't be around otherwise and then no one wins if it gets cancelled. The show does listen but the issue is it has to listen to so many different fans wanting different things. If fans unite and come to an understanding that the focus needs to be on what is best for the show as a whole and present ideas that go along with that notion, then I think the show can take that sort of feedback and present a better product. It does the show no good to keep dealing with what it is, which is fan feedback that is so convoluted and all over the place that it's no surprise the show changes gears as much as it does out of panic.

I also disagree hugely with the notion that some characters are just leads or supporting. Soaps are ensembles and I do think any character can lead a story. No one should lead a show but it does not hurt to give characters like Abe, Lexie, Victor, Caroline, Kate, etc a story where they can shine. Those characters always have to play second fiddle to the supercouples and its sad because most of them have close to or just as many years at Days as the supercouples do. They deserve their chance to shine. They've been loyal too and they have many fans that deserve to see them in big stories. They've been part of big story in the past and proven they can handle it. Maybe if they were given big story more often, some of fans complaining about them getting big story would feel differently but they were never given that chance due to more 80's and supercouple pandering. Yes, some characters drive a show more then others but that does not mean you just automatically shove certain characters aside with the thinking that they can't have their own frontburner story. Those characters actually have more story potential as they haven't had as much to deal with so things can be fresher in regards to what material they are given, which helps make the canvas fresher, something Days is desperately in need of.

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ges
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I don't think they listen to the fans at all. I think any mail or e-mails that they might receive from fans end right up in the circular file before ever having been read. I especially don't think Higley listens to the fans. I think she listens to the voices in her head.
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madelinehawaii


Flying Monkey
Sep 15 2008, 12:29 PM
madelinehawaii
Sep 15 2008, 12:12 PM
Quote:
 
I've always considered the characters of Abe and Lexie to be supporting characters rather than main characters.

I really don't think this story is about them either. Besides being a vehicle to champion Higley's pet cause it will simply end with a rift between Abe and Lexie and yet another excuse for Lexie to become romantically involved with some other guy again. Knowing Higley she'll probably have Abe cheating too, thinking that will excuse Lexie's conduct. Abe has always been one of my favorite secondary characters and he deserve so much better.

I think it will also be an excuse to promote Chelsea being all grown up and a young career woman, so Higley can pursue round two of Chelsea and Dr. Dan thinking it will make it less icky.
you like him supporting your favorites so much (which is what he's spent years doing), he shouldn't be a leading character? That is your idea of the character deserving more?? ouch
There are main characters and supporting characters always have been always will be, it's as simple as that. Not everyone can be lead character. Yes I like some supporting characters in supporting roles, supporting my favorites or not.
supporting characters and lead characters change depending on the writer and I don't see that just because one is usually supporting, or leading such a position is set in stone. That certainly hasn't been true on DOOL over the years

Quote:
 
As far as the character of Abe being more deserving I was referring to Lexie and her tendencies to chase after other men. Abe does deserve better than Lexie. And just like so many other characters James Reynolds deserves to have Abe well written and true to character instead of as a catalyst for Lexie to cheat again.


I don't seen how Lexie's history of chasing after men makes her a 'less deserving' character and why don't all the characters on the show deserve to be true to character? Lexie didn't start out a cheater and what does staying true to character have to do with being supporting or lead? If Abe is being written as a lead character, he is no longer in character?
Edited by madelinehawaii, Sep 15 2008, 05:16 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

ges
Sep 15 2008, 04:59 PM
I don't think they listen to the fans at all. I think any mail or e-mails that they might receive from fans end right up in the circular file before ever having been read. I especially don't think Higley listens to the fans. I think she listens to the voices in her head.
Really? Then how do you explain the fact that the show changes gears everytime a rabid fanbase bitches about something?

If the J&M fans bitch loud enough, the story is dumped and the show goes with something else. Same goes for Bope and Stevr/Kayla. Just look back at the last ten years. It's happened every year, especially after 2004. Yes, Corday and the writers are to blame. They can do better but many fans are responsible too. They refuse to put the show before their own agenda and the show has to listen to these agenda-driven fans. There are just too many fans with different agendas and dislikes for the show to listen to and that is why I can actually see why the show becomes a mess at times. Even with a fantastic writer, the show would struggle because too many fans want different things and some would complain, Corday would act on that, and the show would dump everything and start again, bringing us back where we started. The show has become so damn watered down as a result of all this. The show just needs to try to produce something that has elements of what each fan wants and fans just have to understand that they won't get everything they want. They have to put the show's welfare before themselves and it should be no problem if one truly cares about the show.

Does that mean one should stop pushing for what they want? No. It just means that the show as a whole needs to be the focal point. It just can't about pleasing supercouple fans or character-driven fans or whatever. Fans just have to unite and present their ideas to TPTB in a way that is coherent and that also emphasizes what is best for the show as a whole rather then just emphasizing more love scenes for whatever couple or what only one fanbase would want. Fans can't afford to be selfish right now. Not everyone wants the same thing and no fan is more important then the other and until some fans understand that, the show is going to be in this neverending cycle right up until the show ends it's run.
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Sindacco
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PhoenixRising05
Sep 15 2008, 04:44 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 15 2008, 01:28 PM
Sindacco
Sep 13 2008, 05:36 PM
Frankly I'm sick of the show trying to recapture the 80s.
I don't think that the show is trying to recapture the 80's. For the past eight or nine years now Days has done the complete opposite of that. They threw out the formula that worked. I want to stress the world formula here, I'm not talking about individual characters or couples but about method. And opted instead to pursue their own agendas and visions and completely ignore what the audience wanted.

Days was around for fifteen or so years before the golden hayday of the 80's. It was a popular show, Ted Corday followed a strict formula and always considered what the audience wanted or thought first and that worked well for a very long time.

The new formula was to hire the most talentless hacks available. With a penchant for those recently fired for driving down the ratings on other shows. Flood the show with newbies and teens, the prettiest and most vapid underwear models around and then shove them down the audience's throat. Rewrite history at every turn, not just changing minor facts or dates around but entire histories obliterated. And one of Higley's favorites, let's give everybody their own boring story.

That's done wonders for the ratings hasn't it? Nine years of decline and people wonder why the fans pine for the good old Days. :shrug:
Really? This show is still focusing on the same damn couples it was back then so how is that different? Everytime there is a plan to save Days it involves the same old tired devices. Supercouples, Stefano, romantic adventures, and what have you. That is not going to save Days. As I said in my last post, many fans have become selfish. It's all about what they want but not what is best for the show. Any fan can say that what they want is what will be good for the show but that isn't necessarily true. Days was an even better show before the 80's and before supercouples became the end all to be all. The show was about what soaps should be about to this-drama. Good, solid character driven drama. It didn't matter what characters had the stories. The show was an ENSEMBLE. That is what soaps are supposed to be yet, especially in Days' case, they aren't allowed to be because so many fans cry for the same old tired story ideas involving the same old characters. I love those characters but how much shit can they possibly go through? How many times can Bope go on a romantic adventure? How many times can J&M battle Stefano? For heaven's sake, Days had to "kill" John and reinvent the whole character just to give him and Marlena a story that was fresh. How sad is that?

The show has relied way too long on the same characters. Does that mean get rid of them? No. It just means that more emphasis should be on the future by now. In the 80's Days recognized that fact and pushed Bope, Steve/Kayla, etc on fans. It's long past time that happen again. Shelle could've led that or even Phelle. The young cast in the past few years is talented enough. Sure, the writing doesn't always back them up but alot of the time some fans don't even give them a chance. They just write them off because they are "newbies" or not one of their faves or couples. Some fans say that it's the show's job to make them interested in other characters and then they turn around and say they only watch their faves or what they want to watch. How can you learn to like any other characters or invest when you don't even take the time to try to invest or get used to them? It's the show's job but there have been times when the show did that job and it was lost on many fans because they only watched what they wanted.

The vets are important. They need to be featured but the issue is that many fans limit the story possibilities. Some will get upset the minute their couple has an argument or faces a threat to their relationship. They say they want angst but when they get it, they complain. Then you have the fact that these couples are beyond triangles and if a outside threat is introduced, fans complain that the story becomes more about the threat then the couple. Well, that is kind of the point since the threat to the couple is pretty much driving the story. Let's also remember that these very same fans call for the same things all the time...romance, adventures, supercouples. What many of these fans fail to realize is that not everyone wants that. Look at the ratings. Do you think they will go up if J&M are having their latest roll in the hay? Hell no. The ratings go up if there is plane crash and lives are in danger. Ratings are driven by plot movement and events. They are driven by drama. They no longer are driven by little moments that make soaps what they are. They don't fall at all in line with what many of these fans scream for. Not at all.

So, what is the show to do? Well, in no way should it abandon the little moments like family interaction, tradition, etc. It needs those but what the show needs to do is to combine all it's elements. Character-driven, plot-driven, camp, serious drama, supercouples, young cast...combine it all. Balance the cast and balance all these elements. Try to give every fan a piece of what they want. There is no pleasing anyone by focusing on just one aspect because pleasing one group will piss off another. Fans just need to understand that they won't always get what they want from ANY show because no one fan should be more important then another, just like no one character or couple should be. I think some fans, if they ever cared about this show, need to start considering and pushing for what is best for the show as a whole and not their own agenda. This show won't be around otherwise and then no one wins if it gets cancelled. The show does listen but the issue is it has to listen to so many different fans wanting different things. If fans unite and come to an understanding that the focus needs to be on what is best for the show as a whole and present ideas that go along with that notion, then I think the show can take that sort of feedback and present a better product. It does the show no good to keep dealing with what it is, which is fan feedback that is so convoluted and all over the place that it's no surprise the show changes gears as much as it does out of panic.

I also disagree hugely with the notion that some characters are just leads or supporting. Soaps are ensembles and I do think any character can lead a story. No one should lead a show but it does not hurt to give characters like Abe, Lexie, Victor, Caroline, Kate, etc a story where they can shine. Those characters always have to play second fiddle to the supercouples and its sad because most of them have close to or just as many years at Days as the supercouples do. They deserve their chance to shine. They've been loyal too and they have many fans that deserve to see them in big stories. They've been part of big story in the past and proven they can handle it. Maybe if they were given big story more often, some of fans complaining about them getting big story would feel differently but they were never given that chance due to more 80's and supercouple pandering. Yes, some characters drive a show more then others but that does not mean you just automatically shove certain characters aside with the thinking that they can't have their own frontburner story. Those characters actually have more story potential as they haven't had as much to deal with so things can be fresher in regards to what material they are given, which helps make the canvas fresher, something Days is desperately in need of.

Fantastic post

:hail:
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Flying Monkey
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PhoenixRising05
Sep 15 2008, 04:44 PM
Really? This show is still focusing on the same damn couples it was back then so how is that different? Everytime there is a plan to save Days it involves the same old tired devices. Supercouples, Stefano, romantic adventures, and what have you. That is not going to save Days. As I said in my last post, many fans have become selfish. It's all about what they want but not what is best for the show. Any fan can say that what they want is what will be good for the show but that isn't necessarily true. Days was an even better show before the 80's and before supercouples became the end all to be all. The show was about what soaps should be about to this-drama. Good, solid character driven drama. It didn't matter what characters had the stories. The show was an ENSEMBLE. That is what soaps are supposed to be yet, especially in Days' case, they aren't allowed to be because so many fans cry for the same old tired story ideas involving the same old characters. I love those characters but how much shit can they possibly go through? How many times can Bope go on a romantic adventure? How many times can J&M battle Stefano? For heaven's sake, Days had to "kill" John and reinvent the whole character just to give him and Marlena a story that was fresh. How sad is that?

The show has relied way too long on the same characters. Does that mean get rid of them? No. It just means that more emphasis should be on the future by now. In the 80's Days recognized that fact and pushed Bope, Steve/Kayla, etc on fans. It's long past time that happen again. Shelle could've led that or even Phelle. The young cast in the past few years is talented enough. Sure, the writing doesn't always back them up but alot of the time some fans don't even give them a chance. They just write them off because they are "newbies" or not one of their faves or couples. Some fans say that it's the show's job to make them interested in other characters and then they turn around and say they only watch their faves or what they want to watch. How can you learn to like any other characters or invest when you don't even take the time to try to invest or get used to them? It's the show's job but there have been times when the show did that job and it was lost on many fans because they only watched what they wanted.

The vets are important. They need to be featured but the issue is that many fans limit the story possibilities. Some will get upset the minute their couple has an argument or faces a threat to their relationship. They say they want angst but when they get it, they complain. Then you have the fact that these couples are beyond triangles and if a outside threat is introduced, fans complain that the story becomes more about the threat then the couple. Well, that is kind of the point since the threat to the couple is pretty much driving the story. Let's also remember that these very same fans call for the same things all the time...romance, adventures, supercouples. What many of these fans fail to realize is that not everyone wants that. Look at the ratings. Do you think they will go up if J&M are having their latest roll in the hay? Hell no. The ratings go up if there is plane crash and lives are in danger. Ratings are driven by plot movement and events. They are driven by drama. They no longer are driven by little moments that make soaps what they are. They don't fall at all in line with what many of these fans scream for. Not at all.

So, what is the show to do? Well, in no way should it abandon the little moments like family interaction, tradition, etc. It needs those but what the show needs to do is to combine all it's elements. Character-driven, plot-driven, camp, serious drama, supercouples, young cast...combine it all. Balance the cast and balance all these elements. Try to give every fan a piece of what they want. There is no pleasing anyone by focusing on just one aspect because pleasing one group will piss off another. Fans just need to understand that they won't always get what they want from ANY show because no one fan should be more important then another, just like no one character or couple should be. I think some fans, if they ever cared about this show, need to start considering and pushing for what is best for the show as a whole and not their own agenda. This show won't be around otherwise and then no one wins if it gets cancelled. The show does listen but the issue is it has to listen to so many different fans wanting different things. If fans unite and come to an understanding that the focus needs to be on what is best for the show as a whole and present ideas that go along with that notion, then I think the show can take that sort of feedback and present a better product. It does the show no good to keep dealing with what it is, which is fan feedback that is so convoluted and all over the place that it's no surprise the show changes gears as much as it does out of panic.

I also disagree hugely with the notion that some characters are just leads or supporting. Soaps are ensembles and I do think any character can lead a story. No one should lead a show but it does not hurt to give characters like Abe, Lexie, Victor, Caroline, Kate, etc a story where they can shine. Those characters always have to play second fiddle to the supercouples and its sad because most of them have close to or just as many years at Days as the supercouples do. They deserve their chance to shine. They've been loyal too and they have many fans that deserve to see them in big stories. They've been part of big story in the past and proven they can handle it. Maybe if they were given big story more often, some of fans complaining about them getting big story would feel differently but they were never given that chance due to more 80's and supercouple pandering. Yes, some characters drive a show more then others but that does not mean you just automatically shove certain characters aside with the thinking that they can't have their own frontburner story. Those characters actually have more story potential as they haven't had as much to deal with so things can be fresher in regards to what material they are given, which helps make the canvas fresher, something Days is desperately in need of.

Really? This show likes to trot out the fan favorites every now and again, when the ratings get low. Promising that they will soon be involved in a big upcoming love story. This has come to usually mean one of three thingsÖ often the promised story simply never materializes and youíre left empty handed and feeling usedÖ if by some chance they actually do have some story cooked up for said couple, itís ill conceived and poorly carried out and nothing that either a fan of the characters/couple or the general audience wants to see and it falls by the wayside, totally forgettableÖ or my personal favorite, the big love story planned for said couple that turns out to be about everybody but said couple. I donít see the fans as selfish, Days isnít some altruistic organization that requires the audienceís charity. Itís a product, a service and the audience has every right to make their displeasure known as well and their desires. If it doesnít produce a product that the audience wants to see then it will go under and they will have only themselves to blame, not the consumer.

What a majority of fans want is good for the show. Ignoring that results in what we have now, continuously low ratings and cancellation looms.

Iíve watched Days since the mid seventies and Days and soaps in general were always about romance and love conquering all, thatís why they used to call it ďlove in the afternoon.Ē Days always makes wild promises that they never keep or follow through with, thatís a sure fire way to drive the audience away. In and EMSEMBLE cast, there are lead players and supporting players and the 80ís was all about EMSEMBLE. Every play, every musical, every soap, every prime time show, every motion picture has lead characters and supporting characters, why should Days be any different now? Retelling the same old tired stories lies at the feet of unimaginative writers, not at the feet of the fans. There are plenty of stories yet to be told, the trick is finding a writer who can actually write. And no Days didnít have to nor did they kill John to create a whole new character. John was killed off by a writer who simply didnít want to write for the character, despite the fact that the character has a large following. The same writer who stole John, Marlena and Stefano history and gave it to Ejami. Is that the kind of future youíd like to see? Not me. He was reinvented by a writer who also lacks a basic imagination and enough fortitude and smarts to do her homework on who characters are. Now how sad is that?

Days has spent close to ten years emphasizing the future. In í99 when Belle and Brady were SORAsed it was all teens, all the time while the vets propped up the scenery. There has been a steady stream of new, younger characters who were poorly written and introduced to the audience in such a way as to repel rather than attract in most cases. Shelle could never be a lead couple, they simply didnít have ďitĒ. Phelle was cute but again, no ďitĒ. If they had ďitĒ theyíd would still be on the show. The same writing that doesnít back up these new characters is the same writing that canít figure out what to do with the fan favorites that you find so boring. I havenít seen much new talent at all on Days for years now. While some may write off a new character simply because they arenít their favorite couples but I certainly donít believe the majority feels that way. New characters have to be introduced slowly, in bits and pieces over time. The audience has to have a chance to discover who these characters are and if they like them or not. Itís a well known fact that the audience takes from six months to one year to become invested in a new character who isnít rammed down their throats. Thrusting brand new characters into the forefront and giving them oodles of airtime will only result in most of the audience rejecting that character. If a character is complex and interesting the audience will grow to like them over time, there have not been any complex or interesting characters introduced on this show in ages. Yes it is the showís responsibility to make get us interested and caring about new characters.

Fans do not limit the story possibilities, in fact the fans have much better imaginations and can come up with interesting scenarios just off the tops of their heads, unlike the writing staff of Days. I think you like to generalize and lump fans into one single pigeonhole. Most fans love angst and love conflict for their favorite characters from time to time, but conflict and angst are not synonymous with third parties being thrown into the mix. Third parties are fine for less established couples but we all know Steve isnít going to cheat on Kayla or Hope isnít going to cheat on Bo etc, etc. The lazy writing use this as their default for creating conflict for a couple. There are plenty of other ways to have angst without having someone screw someone new.

The majority of fans have always wanted romance and adventure and that hasnít changed. Iím not sure what the fans who donít want to see romance, adventure and love conquering all envision for Days but perhaps they should seek out other shows better suited to their tastes. Plot driven event writing is whatís killing Days not helping it. I believe that the majority of the audience wants to see character driven stories and not just a series of events. No Days isnít following what most the audience wants to see, thatís clear from the ratings.

When was the last time we saw any real family interaction or tradition??? So if just one fan wants to see say Rolf involved in a big love story/adventure then Days should rush to do that? Or should it concentrate on what the will make the majority of the audience happy and keep them tuned in. There will always be people who are unhappy, always someone feeling left out in the cold, but those fans certainly arenít going to raise the ratings with what they want. People do have their own agendas, thatís clearly obvious some are just better ideas than others. I donít believe for a second that Days has paid much attention to what fans want since Betty Corday retired. The show changes gears so often because it drifts from one bad idea or execution to the next. When one ill conceived idea fails they are desperate to raise the sinking ratings and thus jumping directly into the next awful idea.


Once again, even in an ensemble cast there are lead characters, supporting characters and bit players. Ensemble doesnít mean that every character is a lead character, it simply means a united performance by a group. I donít believe I have ever seen a large fan base for any of the characters you mentioned nor any outcry for them to be involved in their own storyline. Actors can shine in supporting roles just as well as lead roles, they just need good material to do it with. Simply giving them a lead story doesnít ensure that the story will be any good or that it is something that the majority of the audience actually wants to see. All the characters you mentioned have been on Days for years now, the audience knows who they feel about them and most of them have been involved in their own minor storylines throughout the years. Days is in desperate need of a decent writer, having Caroline, Victor, Kate, Abe, Lexie etc in stories written by untalented writers arenít going to add anything to Days.

I think whatís ruining Days besides TIIC are a handful of fans who think that in order to be a fan you must love whatever garbage the show throws at you, blindly supporting it. A handful of fans who enjoy telling other fans that they really arenít fans because they donít raise their pompoms cheer things they donít enjoy and donít want to see. That handful of fans with axes to grind against supercouples and their fans, who donít want to see romance and adventure and think that everybody and their brother deserves their own storyline.
Edited by Flying Monkey, Sep 17 2008, 02:17 AM.
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madelinehawaii
Sep 15 2008, 05:13 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 15 2008, 12:29 PM
madelinehawaii
Sep 15 2008, 12:12 PM
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I've always considered the characters of Abe and Lexie to be supporting characters rather than main characters.

I really don't think this story is about them either. Besides being a vehicle to champion Higley's pet cause it will simply end with a rift between Abe and Lexie and yet another excuse for Lexie to become romantically involved with some other guy again. Knowing Higley she'll probably have Abe cheating too, thinking that will excuse Lexie's conduct. Abe has always been one of my favorite secondary characters and he deserve so much better.

I think it will also be an excuse to promote Chelsea being all grown up and a young career woman, so Higley can pursue round two of Chelsea and Dr. Dan thinking it will make it less icky.
you like him supporting your favorites so much (which is what he's spent years doing), he shouldn't be a leading character? That is your idea of the character deserving more?? ouch
There are main characters and supporting characters always have been always will be, it's as simple as that. Not everyone can be lead character. Yes I like some supporting characters in supporting roles, supporting my favorites or not.
supporting characters and lead characters change depending on the writer and I don't see that just because one is usually supporting, or leading such a position is set in stone. That certainly hasn't been true on DOOL over the years

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As far as the character of Abe being more deserving I was referring to Lexie and her tendencies to chase after other men. Abe does deserve better than Lexie. And just like so many other characters James Reynolds deserves to have Abe well written and true to character instead of as a catalyst for Lexie to cheat again.


I don't seen how Lexie's history of chasing after men makes her a 'less deserving' character and why don't all the characters on the show deserve to be true to character? Lexie didn't start out a cheater and what does staying true to character have to do with being supporting or lead? If Abe is being written as a lead character, he is no longer in character?
I never said Lexie was "less deserving", I said Abe deserved better than Lexie and he does, the reasons why are not that hard to understand. I have said before that all characters deserve to written true to character. I don't know what being written true to character has to do with being a supporting or a lead character or if Abe is being written as a lead character, he is no longer in character. You tell me, since those are you words and not mine?

If you want to pick a fight with me you might want to actually discuss what I've written and not the things you've decided to twist or interject.

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