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DAYS:Daily spoilers for wk of 9/15
Topic Started: Sep 13 2008, 02:46 PM (3,806 Views)
PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

ladyofthelake
Sep 18 2008, 07:08 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 06:49 PM
FanODays
Sep 17 2008, 07:55 AM
You make many excellent points and I want to raise another and that is the stories themselves. I agree that Bope and J&M have been stuck with the same stories for years, literally. I think instead of using the same gimmicks, they need to be inventive and come up with some new things. How about a true health crisis for one of the fab 4 and not like that shit we got with Bo because that was nothing more than a way to introduce Dr. God and have his lust after a child.

Days could admit that the fab 4 are aging and do a menapause story for one of the ladies and let that cause some havoc. They could do a breast cancer storyline (didn't they start one with Kate) and let that play out.

The stories need to come from within and be organic to the characters rather than some big bad evil force from outside. That is why the autism storyline has promisel but so far its not playing out to its potential.
I don't claim to speak for everyone but I do know there a lot of people who feel the same way that I do in that I watch soaps to escape from reality for just a little while. Soaps are about fantasy and the fantastic.

I get plenty enough reality in my daily life and from all the other shows I watch. Health crises have been done before on Days and other soaps, so that's nothing new or refreshing. Like Bo's recent health crisis which was really about hooking up Chelsea and Dr. Dan and had very little to do with Bope at all.

So many people have been touched by health crises of their own or of close family members or friends I can't believe that during their escape time they would want to watch it on their soap.

Sorry but I dont' think menopause would make a good story at all.

I'll take bad evil forces over real life drama any day. If want to watch people with medical problems I'll watch ER.
Well, I guess something has to give, because there ARE people who enjoy those kind of shows. Soaps do them all the time.
As bad it sounds, I hope they do justice to Kate's storyline. There's a reason Hallmark and Movies of the Week do well. Sometimes people WANT to see those they identify with. I certainly don't identify with trying to save a woman's soul from Satan or crap like that. With me, a little romance goes a LONG way. And a good soap CAN combine social issues and human interest with romance. Case in point....the positive comments about how Night Shift handles THEIR autism storyline. The attention the reality facelift storyline of Kay on Y&R.

How about some romance and love in watching a loved one struggle and fight their way back to health? Being drawn closer by tragedy? Losing a business and building it back up?
Exactly.

In all honesty, I like escapism too but many will find escapism in realitic stories. The escapism comes from getting lose in the situations of the characters. It doesn't necessarily come from the story itself. Say Marlena has cancer. Well, the viewer can immerse themself in how she and her loved ones deal with it. It's escapism in the sense that it captivates you and you may even learn something too. This is especially true for those personally affected by something a character is going through. It may be hard to watch but I've always seen responses from people who embrace stories like this. I remember when Chloe had leukemia and Nadia mentioned how well-received it was and how her, Patricka, and Kevin were getting such positive responses from people who enjoyed the story and were really affected by it. That is what soaps have always been about. Romance, emotion, drama...it all goes hand in hand.

If the show strictly sticks with the fantastic and fantasy, your going down a slippery slope because fans can't relate to that at all and breaks the connection between fan and show. It may be entertaining but it's not as emotionally effective and it's those type of stories that drove many fans away in the first place. It attracted new ones but many fans turned away. Days has always done well when it's grounded. Even the adventures in the 80's were grounded. I also think fans are sick of it. Look what happened with Passions. It went way too far and it lost it's audience. The show worked much better when it was balanced as far as storytelling. JER's last stint on Days was nothing but fantastic and fantasy and pretty much every fan called for his head so I really do doubt most fans want that kind of storytelling. Plus, if you go with fantasy and the fantastic, your limiting story big time. You can only do so much that is grounded before you start going into stuff like Melaswen, the Possession (which was semi-grounded but still), witchcraft and other "out there" things.

There can still be fantasy components and the fantastic if you have a realistic show. Today's Nicole/EJ scenes had this beautiful element of fantasy as EJ was saying things to Nicole that she has dreamed of for so long. If Days continues that direction with them, they can make a very nice fairly tale love story with that. In my experience, most want a character-driven/realistic show with some gothic, campy, and plot-driven elements. I think if Days can combine everything, it will be fine. There is no pleasing everyone but that will probably be the most successful strategy given how many fans want different things.
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Flying Monkey
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PhoenixRising05
Sep 17 2008, 03:34 PM
Now, on to your post, what gives characters like Steve and Kayla the right to have a frontburner story? Afterall, RJ has been on longer then both of them. As has JR. Suzanne Rogers had big story before the big 3 supercouples came along and knocked her and Doug, Julie, etc out of the limelight. People forget that the rise of Bope and the other couples pushed other characters aside and into supporting roles, which they remain in until this day. That was unfair too at the time. Days could never get away with that now. Corday tried last year and that is fine because the show needs to gradually move the youth and other characters on to the frontburner. It can't pass the torch the way it did in the 80's That would never work now.

Now, I'm not going to respond to your long post. All I will say is that I'm not against the supercouples. I love them all. I just want different stories and not the sale old junk, which I mentioned in my post above. Many fanbases want the romantic adventures and love stories and I think that has just been done way too much with the big 3 couples. Plus, they are already in love so what is the point? I also have no issue with every fanbase. There are some out there that are horrible and only out for themselves and who they like. That is who I'm speaking about as selfish. That doesn't include everyone in a fanbase or every fanbase. I'm generalizing but my post was long enough without repeating over and over again the word SOME before fans or fanbases.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I apologize if I'm being harsh. It's been a long week for me and I just see this whole issue completely differently. I probably would spend more time responding to your post in more detail but I can't right now. I don't have the energy and it's been a difficult day so I will just stop now and leave this issue at that.
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.

Often times a character/actor's popularity will wane and they will be moved into supporting roles. I'm sure if there were an outcry, the studio flooded with letters, emails etc then the character would move back into a lead role. The fact that Bope, J&M or S&K have remained lead characters is a testament to their staying power as popular characters and who most of audience wants to see.

NBC and Langan pushed Corday to go all teens all the time back in '99 and he went there full tilt and that's what we had for a very long time. It didn't increase the ratings at all, in fact it decreased them dramatically. J&M and Bope were pushed into supporting roles for these new, more youthful characters, and were reduced to little more than propping up the scenery.

When they realized that they'd made a huge mistake they didn't hesitate to bring out their big guns again, promising all sorts of wonderful upcoming stories that never made to our screens.

Yes, you mentioned in your very long post which I responded to in kind that the supercouples had been involved in the same old tired stories ad nauseum. Saying this might sound true but once a little investigating is done it turns out to be false. In the past nine or ten years the big three haven't been involved in many storylines at all and there certainly haven't been any romantic adventures for them, check it out.

Blaming the characters or the audience for gross mismanagement and sheer lack of competent or creative writing is rather funny. It isn't that the big three are getting frontburner storylines left and right about the same old same old and everyone else is involved in these wonderful and exciting stories. The entire show is stale and in serious need of a gifted head writer. Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.

The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.

I don't think that SOME or any fanbase has that much power to dictate storylines. But I do believe that TIIC do know who is popular and who isn't. The only reason that Lexie and Abe are in this storyline at all is because they are the only couple who currently has a child young enough to do this story with and the fact that they would have to pay them a lot less than some other actors I'm sure also factored into that decision.

No worries, I didn't take you as being harsh at all and I look forward to future debates with you.
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Flying Monkey
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Ellie
Sep 18 2008, 07:13 PM
ladyofthelake
Sep 18 2008, 07:08 PM
How about some romance and love in watching a loved one struggle and fight their way back to health? Being drawn closer by tragedy? Losing a business and building it back up?
Do you honestly think with Higley writing that we're going to see any of those?

I understand if you don't like unrealistic storylines, but the difference is that in JER's stories, outlandish as they were, we did see ideas like buildup, fallout, impact on relationships, impact on the characters' daily lives. The premise of this story may be much more realistic than those, but I have a feeling that the execution of the story will not.
I agree! While JER's possession story was more than just a tad fantastical but it contained all the right elements as you said. When the writing is good, covering all the bases it should, then I can suspend belief a bit. Today we have no buildups, we rarely see the fallout or impact, except to hear about it in passing or later learn that it happened offscreen. How on earth can the viewer become invested in something they don't get to see, that they don't experience right along with the characters?

I so miss those voice overs, when they used to let us in on what a character was thinking or feeling. These days it's just a guess as to what the characters think or feel and tomorrow that will change without rhyme or reason.

Higley won't do this autism story justice or any other story for that matter, she simply does not have talent. The woman couldn't write herself out of a wet paper bag.
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Ellie


Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.

Often times a character/actor's popularity will wane and they will be moved into supporting roles. I'm sure if there were an outcry, the studio flooded with letters, emails etc then the character would move back into a lead role. The fact that Bope, J&M or S&K have remained lead characters is a testament to their staying power as popular characters and who most of audience wants to see.

NBC and Langan pushed Corday to go all teens all the time back in '99 and he went there full tilt and that's what we had for a very long time. It didn't increase the ratings at all, in fact it decreased them dramatically. J&M and Bope were pushed into supporting roles for these new, more youthful characters, and were reduced to little more than propping up the scenery.

When they realized that they'd made a huge mistake they didn't hesitate to bring out their big guns again, promising all sorts of wonderful upcoming stories that never made to our screens.

Yes, you mentioned in your very long post which I responded to in kind that the supercouples had been involved in the same old tired stories ad nauseum. Saying this might sound true but once a little investigating is done it turns out to be false. In the past nine or ten years the big three haven't been involved in many storylines at all and there certainly haven't been any romantic adventures for them, check it out.

Blaming the characters or the audience for gross mismanagement and sheer lack of competent or creative writing is rather funny. It isn't that the big three are getting frontburner storylines left and right about the same old same old and everyone else is involved in these wonderful and exciting stories. The entire show is stale and in serious need of a gifted head writer. Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.

The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.

I don't think that SOME or any fanbase has that much power to dictate storylines. But I do believe that TIIC do know who is popular and who isn't. The only reason that Lexie and Abe are in this storyline at all is because they are the only couple who currently has a child young enough to do this story with and the fact that they would have to pay them a lot less than some other actors I'm sure also factored into that decision.

No worries, I didn't take you as being harsh at all and I look forward to future debates with you.
WOW! Maybe if I find a reeeeeally teeny font I can get this entire post into my signature, lol. You clarified this perfectly. I agree 100%.
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Ellie


Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 08:23 PM
I agree! While JER's possession story was more than just a tad fantastical but it contained all the right elements as you said. When the writing is good, covering all the bases it should, then I can suspend belief a bit. Today we have no buildups, we rarely see the fallout or impact, except to hear about it in passing or later learn that it happened offscreen. How on earth can the viewer become invested in something they don't get to see, that they don't experience right along with the characters?

I so miss those voice overs, when they used to let us in on what a character was thinking or feeling. These days it's just a guess as to what the characters think or feel and tomorrow that will change without rhyme or reason.
Haha we agreed with each other at the same time. I'll agree completely with this too. Regarding your second paragraph, Dena Higley sadly does not incorporate point-of-view into her writing. As you're saying, through characters speaking aloud, or through dreams or even side conversations between characters, we used to get inside the characters' minds. Because of that, we identified with the characters and became very much emotionally invested in the story. None of that is happening now, and that's one reason that the storylines seem so hollow.
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madelinehawaii


Flying Monkey
Sep 17 2008, 01:37 AM
madelinehawaii
Sep 15 2008, 05:13 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 15 2008, 12:29 PM
madelinehawaii
Sep 15 2008, 12:12 PM
Quote:
 
I've always considered the characters of Abe and Lexie to be supporting characters rather than main characters.

I really don't think this story is about them either. Besides being a vehicle to champion Higley's pet cause it will simply end with a rift between Abe and Lexie and yet another excuse for Lexie to become romantically involved with some other guy again. Knowing Higley she'll probably have Abe cheating too, thinking that will excuse Lexie's conduct. Abe has always been one of my favorite secondary characters and he deserve so much better.

I think it will also be an excuse to promote Chelsea being all grown up and a young career woman, so Higley can pursue round two of Chelsea and Dr. Dan thinking it will make it less icky.
you like him supporting your favorites so much (which is what he's spent years doing), he shouldn't be a leading character? That is your idea of the character deserving more?? ouch
There are main characters and supporting characters always have been always will be, it's as simple as that. Not everyone can be lead character. Yes I like some supporting characters in supporting roles, supporting my favorites or not.
supporting characters and lead characters change depending on the writer and I don't see that just because one is usually supporting, or leading such a position is set in stone. That certainly hasn't been true on DOOL over the years

Quote:
 
As far as the character of Abe being more deserving I was referring to Lexie and her tendencies to chase after other men. Abe does deserve better than Lexie. And just like so many other characters James Reynolds deserves to have Abe well written and true to character instead of as a catalyst for Lexie to cheat again.


I don't seen how Lexie's history of chasing after men makes her a 'less deserving' character and why don't all the characters on the show deserve to be true to character? Lexie didn't start out a cheater and what does staying true to character have to do with being supporting or lead? If Abe is being written as a lead character, he is no longer in character?
I never said Lexie was "less deserving", I said Abe deserved better than Lexie and he does, the reasons why are not that hard to understand. I have said before that all characters deserve to written true to character.

ok, though I don't see that make one character or the other more deserving, except for you personally. Just because a character has a higher degree of morality doesn't make that character more deserving than another(unless that is the case for you because you like Abe better). A good character is one that grabs the imagination and there are just as many morally bankrupt characters who do that...probably more lol

In my experience, villains are just as popular as heroes.

Quote:
 
I have said before that all characters deserve to written true to character. I don't know what being written true to character has to do with being a supporting or a lead character or if Abe is being written as a lead character, he is no longer in character. You tell me, since those are you words and not mine?

If you want to pick a fight with me you might want to actually discuss what I've written and not the things you've decided to twist or interject.


since when is disagreeing with anyone's point of view on this board considered picking a fight?

you said that you'd always considered Abe a supporting character and then went on to complain about how his character deserves so much better than the story he's got now, in which he is being written as a lead. It sure sounded to me like you were complaining that should not be the case...not just because he was being written out of character but because you're assuming what the story was going to be about something you'd rather not see. You seemed to be equating the two things...him out of character and him in this story where he is a lead. If not, great but that was what I got out of your post.



Edited by madelinehawaii, Sep 18 2008, 09:01 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM
PhoenixRising05
Sep 17 2008, 03:34 PM
Now, on to your post, what gives characters like Steve and Kayla the right to have a frontburner story? Afterall, RJ has been on longer then both of them. As has JR. Suzanne Rogers had big story before the big 3 supercouples came along and knocked her and Doug, Julie, etc out of the limelight. People forget that the rise of Bope and the other couples pushed other characters aside and into supporting roles, which they remain in until this day. That was unfair too at the time. Days could never get away with that now. Corday tried last year and that is fine because the show needs to gradually move the youth and other characters on to the frontburner. It can't pass the torch the way it did in the 80's That would never work now.

Now, I'm not going to respond to your long post. All I will say is that I'm not against the supercouples. I love them all. I just want different stories and not the sale old junk, which I mentioned in my post above. Many fanbases want the romantic adventures and love stories and I think that has just been done way too much with the big 3 couples. Plus, they are already in love so what is the point? I also have no issue with every fanbase. There are some out there that are horrible and only out for themselves and who they like. That is who I'm speaking about as selfish. That doesn't include everyone in a fanbase or every fanbase. I'm generalizing but my post was long enough without repeating over and over again the word SOME before fans or fanbases.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I apologize if I'm being harsh. It's been a long week for me and I just see this whole issue completely differently. I probably would spend more time responding to your post in more detail but I can't right now. I don't have the energy and it's been a difficult day so I will just stop now and leave this issue at that.
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.

Often times a character/actor's popularity will wane and they will be moved into supporting roles. I'm sure if there were an outcry, the studio flooded with letters, emails etc then the character would move back into a lead role. The fact that Bope, J&M or S&K have remained lead characters is a testament to their staying power as popular characters and who most of audience wants to see.

NBC and Langan pushed Corday to go all teens all the time back in '99 and he went there full tilt and that's what we had for a very long time. It didn't increase the ratings at all, in fact it decreased them dramatically. J&M and Bope were pushed into supporting roles for these new, more youthful characters, and were reduced to little more than propping up the scenery.

When they realized that they'd made a huge mistake they didn't hesitate to bring out their big guns again, promising all sorts of wonderful upcoming stories that never made to our screens.

Yes, you mentioned in your very long post which I responded to in kind that the supercouples had been involved in the same old tired stories ad nauseum. Saying this might sound true but once a little investigating is done it turns out to be false. In the past nine or ten years the big three haven't been involved in many storylines at all and there certainly haven't been any romantic adventures for them, check it out.

Blaming the characters or the audience for gross mismanagement and sheer lack of competent or creative writing is rather funny. It isn't that the big three are getting frontburner storylines left and right about the same old same old and everyone else is involved in these wonderful and exciting stories. The entire show is stale and in serious need of a gifted head writer. Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.

The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.

I don't think that SOME or any fanbase has that much power to dictate storylines. But I do believe that TIIC do know who is popular and who isn't. The only reason that Lexie and Abe are in this storyline at all is because they are the only couple who currently has a child young enough to do this story with and the fact that they would have to pay them a lot less than some other actors I'm sure also factored into that decision.

No worries, I didn't take you as being harsh at all and I look forward to future debates with you.
I'm going to respond to this in pieces.

Quote:
 
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.


If Steve and Kayla (and keep in mind I adore them and have defended them on this very board when people suggested cutting them from the show) are so popular, how do you explain the ratings doing NOTHING when they returned? They returned during a time where ratings still responded to things like that. The Steve/Kayla fans aren't even as vocal as J&M fans or Bope fans. They kind of go with the flow. It's much like the J&J fans. The issue is most Days fans nowadays, probably most of the ones who count in the ratings, are made up of fans who began watching during JER's first reign or later. They don't know J&J or Steve and Kayla and the show made some mistakes in how their returns were done. Steve and Kayla, in particular, should've never returned during a writing transition because their story just never came together and they have been lost ever since. Let's also considering how they had big story in March and April and the ratings did nothing either. Ratings aren't exactly a measure but keep this in mind...I see more responses in magazines and online from Bope, J&M, Ejami, Lumi, Phorgan, Phloe, Chan, Chick, and even Tanna fans then I do Steve and Kayla fans.

I also think you being very unfair in your assessment by saying that no one has campaigned or there was no outcry for characters like Abe and Lexie. Look around. I can assure you there is some. There have been outcries for more story for Tony and Anna. There have been outcries for more Kate and Victor. Go read past magazines or go check out several boards. I have and so have others. The truth is out there. Are Bope and J&M more popular? Yes. That doesn't mean everyone else has to remain as props to them. You can have those coulples in big stories and other characters in big stories too. It's called BALANCE, the same thing most fans cried for last year. It's funny how when the show becomes balanced, many cry foul because airtime is being taken away from their favorites. Your right. It is a business but it's also entertainment and if many fans aren't being entertained (which they aren't if they don't see their favorites too), then that isn't good business either. Plus, your paying for these actors and actresses whether you use them or not so why not use their talents to their potential instead of letting them languish?

Quote:
 
Often times a character/actor's popularity will wane and they will be moved into supporting roles. I'm sure if there were an outcry, the studio flooded with letters, emails etc then the character would move back into a lead role. The fact that Bope, J&M or S&K have remained lead characters is a testament to their staying power as popular characters and who most of audience wants to see.


The popularity of Suzanne Rogers, John Clarke, Bill and Susan Hayes, and others did not wane yet they were cast aside for Bope, J&M, and Steve and Kayla. How do you explain that? Days could never get away with that now. They tried that same thing last year in early 2007 because Corday wanted to experiment and it failed. Fans in the 80's had to accept the turnover but I also think fans were more accepting of everything back then because, let me just say, the writing back then was all over the place too. The difference was that everything was fresh and new and often times fans get lost in that. I did too.

Quote:
 
NBC and Langan pushed Corday to go all teens all the time back in '99 and he went there full tilt and that's what we had for a very long time. It didn't increase the ratings at all, in fact it decreased them dramatically. J&M and Bope were pushed into supporting roles for these new, more youthful characters, and were reduced to little more than propping up the scenery.

When they realized that they'd made a huge mistake they didn't hesitate to bring out their big guns again, promising all sorts of wonderful upcoming stories that never made to our screens.


NBC had no role in that youth push because Days' young demos were actually good. Langan and Corday wanted it because Corday wanted to bring about his own "80's era" of young couples and their adventures but it failed and he made Langan the fall guy and himself look like the hero in the end. Lorraine Broderick quit the show after a few days for that reason. They tried to force the youth movement on her and she agreed to do it gradually but they wanted it right away so she quit. It wasn't just Bope and J&M pushed to the side. Everyone was, except J&J/Greta/Brandon. Even Sami was pushed aside for the first time ever. After that debacle, Days did reward fans. 2002 was wonderful. It was balanced and got critical acclaim. B&C provided a creative renaissance. It wasn't perfect but Bope fans certainly got what they were looking for and J&M had some intriguing stuff as well.

Quote:
 
Yes, you mentioned in your very long post which I responded to in kind that the supercouples had been involved in the same old tired stories ad nauseum. Saying this might sound true but once a little investigating is done it turns out to be false. In the past nine or ten years the big three haven't been involved in many storylines at all and there certainly haven't been any romantic adventures for them, check it out.


No stories?

Bo and Hope had the Princess Gina story and the aftermath in 1998-2000. They had the baby switch and it's aftermath in 2001-2002. They had the Larry Welch, kidnapping ADVENTURE story in 2002 along with Hope's post traumatic stress and the Colin murder story. Higley gave them ample story with Bo quitting the force and them becoming bounty hunters. They were involved in the SSK/Melaswen story in 2004 and then got tossed in with Billie and Patrick in another quad in 2005-2006. They had the Zack story in 2006. They had Bo getting sick and, yes, that was about Chelsea but it was also about them as it led to them getting married again. The Paul story was a story for them too and, yes, it was just as much their story as Bo's career was at stake and still is.

John and Marlena...I can see your point. After they reunited, they really got nothing of their own, which may be why your more frustrated then others. John seemed to get more then Marlena as his past was explored and he was involved with the Gina story. J&M did have the story of John sleeping with Gina and her issues with Brady. That was very much their story. The SSK story was their story. The Alex North story was their story. Now they have this recent story with John dying and coming back so they have had less then Bope but they had story.

True, not many romantic adventures but, seriously, how many can do you? Are you willing to settle for rehash after rehash? I mean, even a writer at their best can only do so much. You can't just keep doing the same things. The audience does not want to see that. I'm with you on romance but the three main couples have been through too many romantic adventures and the love stories just make no sense, except in regards to J&M since John is different. Bope and Steve and Kayla already love each other so what's the point? I'm not saying don't do romantic adventures at all but that should not be all these couples do. It's repetitive and THAT is lazy writing. Always settling for the same thing over and over. People complain about Higley making both Sami and Nicole pregnant, saying it's been there done that. Isn't the constant romantic adventures the same way? It's ok to do one here and there but constantly is not good for the show. It won't help the ratings and it's already beyond old. Unless you do it with the newer couples, it's repetitive and can't be done too much.

Quote:
 
Blaming the characters or the audience for gross mismanagement and sheer lack of competent or creative writing is rather funny. It isn't that the big three are getting frontburner storylines left and right about the same old same old and everyone else is involved in these wonderful and exciting stories. The entire show is stale and in serious need of a gifted head writer. Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.


Your right. The show is stale and it will get even staler if it continues to push for been there, done that. Seriously, how can anyone advocate for the same old thing we've saw before? These characters need to progress and need to grow. How can they if they are in the same old stories they have been in before? The idea is to face new challenges. Not the same ones. I mean, I long for my younger days and the old days too but I'm not getting them back. The show needs to evolve and it and the characters can't evolve if it continues to rely on the same old tired stories that have been done too many times already. It would be like watching Youtube clips and that is not good for a show.

Quote:
 
The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.


My take is the majority just want their faves onscreen and in good stories in which they are true to character. My feeling is that most want their characters to evolve and change. My feeling is fans want romance and character-driven drama and all the other things soaps have always been about. That is what many here and on other boards and in the mags have said. Isn't it much more enjoyable to see your faves doing something fresh? Something new and different? You can always look back at the past on Youtube. You have to move forward and as long as the story is good and true to character, does it matter?

I don't think it makes a difference who Days gets to write. They will be screwed no matter what because what is good for one group of fans isn't good for another. You can't please everyone and everyone wants different things. I think what also gets lost in this is that writers are human so they all have biases. If you took over the writing reigns, wouldn't you favor your faves over others? Fans would probably complain about that when they saw your work. There is always going to be something fans don't like. It happened in the 80's and 90's too. The difference is that the show has burned fans so much they now can't even tolerate that much.

I never said the supercouple became boring. I said the same old stories they have become involved in are boring. Time for something new. That is more intriguing to the audience then repeating the same things all the time only with maybe a different spin on it.

Quote:
 
I don't think that SOME or any fanbase has that much power to dictate storylines. But I do believe that TIIC do know who is popular and who isn't. The only reason that Lexie and Abe are in this storyline at all is because they are the only couple who currently has a child young enough to do this story with and the fact that they would have to pay them a lot less than some other actors I'm sure also factored into that decision.


Really? Didn't fanbases push Days to change the father of Hope's baby to Bo? How about how fanbases pushing forced Days to bring the captives back from the castle earlier in 2005? How about how many stories that angered fanbases in the past few years has come to an abrupt end and been swept under the rug? I hate that too because they should end the story quickly but also take some things they can maybe use to further other story. Trust me...fanbases influence the show greatly. They do listen. They just choose when they act on it. My issue is quite simple that fans are very important. They should be listened to and their issues should be addressed. The show should strive to please as many fans as possible and try to be as balanced and equal as possible. However, fans should NEVER hold a show hostage like what has happened with Days in the past few years. I know many will deny that happens but it does. I know it does. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. I'm not saying every fan or fanbase does this but it does happen.

Quote:
 
No worries, I didn't take you as being harsh at all and I look forward to future debates with you.


Good. I was worried about that. Same here.

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Mason
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PhoenixRising05
Sep 18 2008, 09:09 PM
How about how fanbases pushing forced Days to bring the captives back from the castle earlier in 2005?
In that particular instance, can you really blame them? There should have never been a damn castle in the first place, let alone be dragged out as long as JER would have liked to.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Mason
Sep 18 2008, 09:16 PM
PhoenixRising05
Sep 18 2008, 09:09 PM
How about how fanbases pushing forced Days to bring the captives back from the castle earlier in 2005?
In that particular instance, can you really blame them? There should have never been a damn castle in the first place, let alone be dragged out as long as JER would have liked to.
Oh, I don't blame them there. Hell, EVERY fan wanted that and pushed for that.

I was just proving the point that fanbases do have an effect.
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madelinehawaii


Ellie
Sep 18 2008, 08:25 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.

Often times a character/actor's popularity will wane and they will be moved into supporting roles. I'm sure if there were an outcry, the studio flooded with letters, emails etc then the character would move back into a lead role. The fact that Bope, J&M or S&K have remained lead characters is a testament to their staying power as popular characters and who most of audience wants to see.

NBC and Langan pushed Corday to go all teens all the time back in '99 and he went there full tilt and that's what we had for a very long time. It didn't increase the ratings at all, in fact it decreased them dramatically. J&M and Bope were pushed into supporting roles for these new, more youthful characters, and were reduced to little more than propping up the scenery.

When they realized that they'd made a huge mistake they didn't hesitate to bring out their big guns again, promising all sorts of wonderful upcoming stories that never made to our screens.

Yes, you mentioned in your very long post which I responded to in kind that the supercouples had been involved in the same old tired stories ad nauseum. Saying this might sound true but once a little investigating is done it turns out to be false. In the past nine or ten years the big three haven't been involved in many storylines at all and there certainly haven't been any romantic adventures for them, check it out.

Blaming the characters or the audience for gross mismanagement and sheer lack of competent or creative writing is rather funny. It isn't that the big three are getting frontburner storylines left and right about the same old same old and everyone else is involved in these wonderful and exciting stories. The entire show is stale and in serious need of a gifted head writer. Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.

The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.

I don't think that SOME or any fanbase has that much power to dictate storylines. But I do believe that TIIC do know who is popular and who isn't. The only reason that Lexie and Abe are in this storyline at all is because they are the only couple who currently has a child young enough to do this story with and the fact that they would have to pay them a lot less than some other actors I'm sure also factored into that decision.

No worries, I didn't take you as being harsh at all and I look forward to future debates with you.
WOW! Maybe if I find a reeeeeally teeny font I can get this entire post into my signature, lol. You clarified this perfectly. I agree 100%.
wow, I disagree with the marketability part of this post. Suggesting that the leads in a frontburner storyline HAVE to have a large fanbase to begin with completely flies in the face of why the 80s worked...those supercouples weren't supercouples to begin with and wouldn't have been if TPTB wouldn't have had the nerve to take risks with characters that the viewers didn't know or care about,, and yes, I realize none of it would have worked without descent writing which is sadly lacking the last several years but assuming it's never going to happen?? And what a slap to those actors without a huge fanbase, suggesting they are not capable with a good story of creating excitement where none existed before. I guess I believe that the audience is more savvy...if something is entertaining, no matter who the characters are, they will tune it to watch it.
Edited by madelinehawaii, Sep 18 2008, 09:25 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

madelinehawaii
Sep 18 2008, 09:17 PM
Ellie
Sep 18 2008, 08:25 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.

Often times a character/actor's popularity will wane and they will be moved into supporting roles. I'm sure if there were an outcry, the studio flooded with letters, emails etc then the character would move back into a lead role. The fact that Bope, J&M or S&K have remained lead characters is a testament to their staying power as popular characters and who most of audience wants to see.

NBC and Langan pushed Corday to go all teens all the time back in '99 and he went there full tilt and that's what we had for a very long time. It didn't increase the ratings at all, in fact it decreased them dramatically. J&M and Bope were pushed into supporting roles for these new, more youthful characters, and were reduced to little more than propping up the scenery.

When they realized that they'd made a huge mistake they didn't hesitate to bring out their big guns again, promising all sorts of wonderful upcoming stories that never made to our screens.

Yes, you mentioned in your very long post which I responded to in kind that the supercouples had been involved in the same old tired stories ad nauseum. Saying this might sound true but once a little investigating is done it turns out to be false. In the past nine or ten years the big three haven't been involved in many storylines at all and there certainly haven't been any romantic adventures for them, check it out.

Blaming the characters or the audience for gross mismanagement and sheer lack of competent or creative writing is rather funny. It isn't that the big three are getting frontburner storylines left and right about the same old same old and everyone else is involved in these wonderful and exciting stories. The entire show is stale and in serious need of a gifted head writer. Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.

The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.

I don't think that SOME or any fanbase has that much power to dictate storylines. But I do believe that TIIC do know who is popular and who isn't. The only reason that Lexie and Abe are in this storyline at all is because they are the only couple who currently has a child young enough to do this story with and the fact that they would have to pay them a lot less than some other actors I'm sure also factored into that decision.

No worries, I didn't take you as being harsh at all and I look forward to future debates with you.
WOW! Maybe if I find a reeeeeally teeny font I can get this entire post into my signature, lol. You clarified this perfectly. I agree 100%.
wow, I disagree with the marketability part of this post. Suggesting that the leads in a frontburner storyline HAVE to have a large fanbase to begin with completely flies in the face of why the 80s worked...those supercouples weren't supercouples to begin with and wouldn't have been if TPTB wouldn't have had the nerve to take risks with characters that the viewers didn't know or care about, and yes, I realize none of it would have worked without descent writing which is sadly lacking the last several years but assuming it's never going to happen?? And what a slap to those actors without a huge fanbase, suggesting they are not capable with a good story of creating excitement where none existed before. I guess I believe that the audience is more savvy...if something is entertaining, no matter who the characters are, they will tune it to watch it.
Brilliant! Simple a brilliant post. :hail: .
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Flying Monkey
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Quote:
 
ok, though I don't see that make one character or the other more deserving, except for you personally. Just because a character has a higher degree of morality doesn't make that character more deserving than another(unless that is the case for you because you like Abe better).


No, I donít think itís just me who thinks that a ďmoralĒ (using your word here, not mine) character such as Abe deserves a wife who loves him and isnít just keeping him around while she waits to meet her next lover. Unless of course you like Lexie better and therefore are willing to overlook and excuse her bad behavior.

Quote:
 
A good character is one that grabs the imagination and there are just as many morally bankrupt characters who do that...probably more lol


Youíre preaching to the choir here on loving morally bankrupt characters, Stefano has been one of all time favorites since he arrived in Salem. But I donít try to make excuses for his behavior or believe he should ultimately triumph in any situation.

Quote:
 
since when is disagreeing with anyone's point of view on this board considered picking a fight?


If you simply disagreed with what I actually said there wouldnít be a problem. You claimed I said something I didnít in order to support your position. Accusing me of only liking Abe so long as he supports my favorites, which was incorrect and very presumptuous. Purposefully misquoting someone to strengthen your position is considered trying to pick a fight in most neighborhoods.

Quote:
 
you said that you'd always considered Abe a supporting character and then went on to complain about how his character deserves so much better than the story he's got now, in which he is being written as a lead. It sure sounded to me like you were complaining that should not be the case...not just because he was being written out of character but because you're assuming what the story was going to be about something you'd rather not see. You seemed to be equating the two things...him out of character and him in this story where he is a lead. If not, great but that was what I got out of your post.


Again slightly changing what I said to fit your argument. I NEVER said that Abe deserves so much better than the story heís got now, although he does all the characters doÖ I said he deserved a better than a wife then the one he has now, one who isnít ready to jump the bones of the next guy who comes around the corner.

Once again I do believe that I said all characters should be written in character, no distinctions between leading or supporting (which you quoted me on btw). Abe along with almost every other character has been written out of character for some time now and the characters, actors and fans do deserve better. I think itís you who is equating two, since they are entirely separate issues. Abe deserves to be written in character in whichever capacity.

I think youíre real beef is that I think certain characters should be supporting roles and certain ones should be lead roles and you disagree, which is fine but it might help if you addressed that. Youíve already questioned how I could be a fan of a supporting character and not want them to be in a lead role and Iím not sure whatís so hard to understand about that. I love my local high school football team and I love the cheerleaders, but I donít want to see the cheerleaders take the field, they arenít cut out for it.
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madelinehawaii


Flying Monkey
Sep 19 2008, 12:19 AM
But I donít try to make excuses for his behavior or believe he should ultimately triumph in any situation.
:lol: speaking of putting words into someone else's mouth

Quote:
 

If you simply disagreed with what I actually said there wouldnít be a problem. You claimed I said something I didnít in order to support your position.


if you can't handle behaving yourself in a civil manner without accusing someone else of attacking you just because that person read something into your post you weren't expecting, perhaps you should refrain from debating. I have not called you rude, only pointed out at that what you did in the original post which I responded to came across in a far different way to me that you obviously think it did or should. That doesn't mean I'm picking a fight. That means I read something into it that you say you didn't mean and if you'll notice, I wasn't the only one who read it that way. Plenty of things said in this median can be interpreted in ways the poster didn't expect. That doesn't necessarily mean the person responding twisted your words. That means they noticed something you didn't.

Quote:
 
Accusing me of only liking Abe so long as he supports my favorites, which was incorrect and very presumptuous. Purposefully misquoting someone to strengthen your position is considered trying to pick a fight in most neighborhoods


I didn't accuse you of anything lol...I pointed out that it appeared that you wanted Abe to remain a supporting character because he would continue to prop your favorites. He hasn't done practically anything other than that in years and you are the one saying you don't feel he is lead character material. What other reason is there for you to begrudge the character a leading role? You obviously don't want him to stay in a supporting role so he can watch Lexie cheat on him. What else is he going to do other than hang around the police Station getting J/M out of their endless troubles?

Quote:
 
Again slightly changing what I said to fit your argument. I NEVER said that Abe deserves so much better than the story heís got now, although he does all the characters doÖ I said he deserved a better than a wife then the one he has now, one who isnít ready to jump the bones of the next guy who comes around the corner.


yes you did (see quote below)...granted it came along with making assumptions about where the story was headed, but that sounds to me like you are saying he deserves a better story than the one Higley is writing for him. Just because you later qualified it that you mean he deserved better than Lexie cheating on him again doesn't change what you wrote in this post... that in your opinion, it was Higley's intent, i.e. the story and it's failings. After all, Lexie can't cheat on him unless Higley writes it into the storyline which you already believe is the direction she is going.

Quote:
 
I really don't think this story is about them either. Besides being a vehicle to champion Higley's pet cause it will simply end with a rift between Abe and Lexie and yet another excuse for Lexie to become romantically involved with some other guy again. Knowing Higley she'll probably have Abe cheating too, thinking that will excuse Lexie's conduct. Abe has always been one of my favorite secondary characters and he deserve so much better.


Quote:
 
I think youíre real beef is that I think certain characters should be supporting roles and certain ones should be lead roles and you disagree, which is fine but it might help if you addressed that. Youíve already questioned how I could be a fan of a supporting character and not want them to be in a lead role and Iím not sure whatís so hard to understand about that. I love my local high school football team and I love the cheerleaders, but I donít want to see the cheerleaders take the field, they arenít cut out for it.


I find that idea of supposed limitations very sad
Edited by madelinehawaii, Sep 19 2008, 05:08 AM.
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madelinehawaii


PhoenixRising05
Sep 18 2008, 09:21 PM
madelinehawaii
Sep 18 2008, 09:17 PM
Ellie
Sep 18 2008, 08:25 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.

Often times a character/actor's popularity will wane and they will be moved into supporting roles. I'm sure if there were an outcry, the studio flooded with letters, emails etc then the character would move back into a lead role. The fact that Bope, J&M or S&K have remained lead characters is a testament to their staying power as popular characters and who most of audience wants to see.

NBC and Langan pushed Corday to go all teens all the time back in '99 and he went there full tilt and that's what we had for a very long time. It didn't increase the ratings at all, in fact it decreased them dramatically. J&M and Bope were pushed into supporting roles for these new, more youthful characters, and were reduced to little more than propping up the scenery.

When they realized that they'd made a huge mistake they didn't hesitate to bring out their big guns again, promising all sorts of wonderful upcoming stories that never made to our screens.

Yes, you mentioned in your very long post which I responded to in kind that the supercouples had been involved in the same old tired stories ad nauseum. Saying this might sound true but once a little investigating is done it turns out to be false. In the past nine or ten years the big three haven't been involved in many storylines at all and there certainly haven't been any romantic adventures for them, check it out.

Blaming the characters or the audience for gross mismanagement and sheer lack of competent or creative writing is rather funny. It isn't that the big three are getting frontburner storylines left and right about the same old same old and everyone else is involved in these wonderful and exciting stories. The entire show is stale and in serious need of a gifted head writer. Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.

The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.

I don't think that SOME or any fanbase has that much power to dictate storylines. But I do believe that TIIC do know who is popular and who isn't. The only reason that Lexie and Abe are in this storyline at all is because they are the only couple who currently has a child young enough to do this story with and the fact that they would have to pay them a lot less than some other actors I'm sure also factored into that decision.

No worries, I didn't take you as being harsh at all and I look forward to future debates with you.
WOW! Maybe if I find a reeeeeally teeny font I can get this entire post into my signature, lol. You clarified this perfectly. I agree 100%.
wow, I disagree with the marketability part of this post. Suggesting that the leads in a frontburner storyline HAVE to have a large fanbase to begin with completely flies in the face of why the 80s worked...those supercouples weren't supercouples to begin with and wouldn't have been if TPTB wouldn't have had the nerve to take risks with characters that the viewers didn't know or care about, and yes, I realize none of it would have worked without descent writing which is sadly lacking the last several years but assuming it's never going to happen?? And what a slap to those actors without a huge fanbase, suggesting they are not capable with a good story of creating excitement where none existed before. I guess I believe that the audience is more savvy...if something is entertaining, no matter who the characters are, they will tune it to watch it.
Brilliant! Simple a brilliant post. :hail: .
ty Phoenix :biggrin:
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cassie1013


Hey you know what a better question is - how come when people are going to do the 'hook up' thing (a la Ej and Nicole) no one mentions condoms? That is just so laughable. Or at least pull out people.. I can't stand when a character is shocked they are knocked up...obviously it was a possibility dumb ass.

Or is the pill outlawed in Salem?!
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Sindacco
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Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 06:49 PM
I don't claim to speak for everyone but I do know there a lot of people who feel the same way that I do in that I watch soaps to escape from reality for just a little while. Soaps are about fantasy and the fantastic.
It is? Then why do people complain about things being unrealistic or that they can't realate to the characters? Better yet, why would they want to relate to them if they want to "escape from reality" or watch "fantasy and the fantastic"?
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Sindacco
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Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.

Characters like Abe, Lexie, Kate, Victor, Roman, Stefano, Maggie, Tony, Anna etc have fans. The difference is that they don't have rabid fans like John & Marlena, Steve & Kayla, Bo & Hope and Jack & Jennifer.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Ellie
Sep 18 2008, 08:25 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.

Often times a character/actor's popularity will wane and they will be moved into supporting roles. I'm sure if there were an outcry, the studio flooded with letters, emails etc then the character would move back into a lead role. The fact that Bope, J&M or S&K have remained lead characters is a testament to their staying power as popular characters and who most of audience wants to see.

NBC and Langan pushed Corday to go all teens all the time back in '99 and he went there full tilt and that's what we had for a very long time. It didn't increase the ratings at all, in fact it decreased them dramatically. J&M and Bope were pushed into supporting roles for these new, more youthful characters, and were reduced to little more than propping up the scenery.

When they realized that they'd made a huge mistake they didn't hesitate to bring out their big guns again, promising all sorts of wonderful upcoming stories that never made to our screens.

Yes, you mentioned in your very long post which I responded to in kind that the supercouples had been involved in the same old tired stories ad nauseum. Saying this might sound true but once a little investigating is done it turns out to be false. In the past nine or ten years the big three haven't been involved in many storylines at all and there certainly haven't been any romantic adventures for them, check it out.

Blaming the characters or the audience for gross mismanagement and sheer lack of competent or creative writing is rather funny. It isn't that the big three are getting frontburner storylines left and right about the same old same old and everyone else is involved in these wonderful and exciting stories. The entire show is stale and in serious need of a gifted head writer. Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.

The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.

I don't think that SOME or any fanbase has that much power to dictate storylines. But I do believe that TIIC do know who is popular and who isn't. The only reason that Lexie and Abe are in this storyline at all is because they are the only couple who currently has a child young enough to do this story with and the fact that they would have to pay them a lot less than some other actors I'm sure also factored into that decision.

No worries, I didn't take you as being harsh at all and I look forward to future debates with you.
WOW! Maybe if I find a reeeeeally teeny font I can get this entire post into my signature, lol. You clarified this perfectly. I agree 100%.
I'm responding to both Ellie and Flying Monkey in this.

I don't know what to honestly say about what I expect Higley's writing to be. What I was responding to was attractive storylines in general. What I find entertaining. And believe it or not, there is some stuff that Higley does that is promising.

And, I wonder if the "marketability" of the so called secondary players just comes from a few fanbases throwing a fit because their favorites aren't in the lead again? I'll wager you most viewers vote with their viewing time. For the past several years, Days has been so topsy-turvy in KEEPING alternate couples or players on the front lines because of the "massive few" who throw a fit about it. Same old story. You won't find that opinion only here, but on other boards as well.

And, I do still recall, in the transition between JER and Sheffer, the time when J&M had their little summer "hiatus". Ratings were high, probably based on happiness for Reilly being gone, but still. They weren't totally banking on their so-called "money couples" to bring in the ratings. Bo and Hope have been gone in the past, too. The show went on. It's a sad, sad show that is all about one character or one couple, except, of course, the sitcoms that are SUPPOSED to center around one star. Soaps shouldn't operate that way.

And to quote the Flying Monkey (interesting moniker) about the whole "it's what the majority wants". WHO the hell knows what the majority wants? How do you measure that? Days hasn't exactly been the prime example of wonderful awesome soap ratings, except for some rare occasions, for a long time.

And, again, I find it highly ironic that those who protest the most about "secondary" characters coming to the forefront are those who have strong fanbase alliances. Not that they shouldn't have an opinion. I just find it very coincidental.

Popularity is equated with the loudest? Or is it the fanbases that send the most letters, possibly by the same people over and over?

Oh, and by the way, if you want to go that route (whoever I'm talking to): Shawn and Mimi, for example, were getting pretty high praise a couple of years ago. SOD covers galore, presentations on the Emmys, letters, fanbase, Campaigns of the Month.............But, I don't think that was regarded because of what is perceived to be Corday's insistence of Shelle forever.

Right now, based on boards (yes, another inaccurate measurement, but if you get yours, I get mine), Nicole and EJ are getting high kudos. There are people who are anticipating, though, being disappointed because, yes, Days will cave probably to the loudest.

And, truly, if you look at a lot of the boards and online commentaries (by folks who do write for the magazines, besides the usual suspects), not everyone is enamoured by John and Marlena. I'm willing to bet that many are more enamoured with a good storyline, which is PROBABLY why Days might have trouble attracting new viewers? I'd be willing to bet the farm that if Lexie and Abe had a good storyline, CONSISTENT, with DECENT publicity, and new viewers came in, they wouldn't throw such a fit. Same with Nicole.

Oh, and by the way, Marlena started out as a supporting character, too. Remember Mickey's shrink when he thought he was Marty? No, you probably don't.

OK, my rant is over. It's very obvious I disagree. I think, though, Days has nothing to lose by trying these folks in a good storyline. Maybe, for once, it's time they catered to the GENERAL fans whose lives don't depend on certain people getting frontburnered?

yes, I'm bitchy. I'll admit it. I'm tired of people thinking certain characters aren't worthy based on the supposed rights to entitlement of Salem. It's been a while since Abe and Lexie have had a decent storyline. Would life come to a crashing halt if they got a nice B storyline to themselves for once? :soapbox:
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madelinehawaii
Sep 18 2008, 09:17 PM
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wow, I disagree with the marketability part of this post. Suggesting that the leads in a frontburner storyline HAVE to have a large fanbase to begin with completely flies in the face of why the 80s worked...those supercouples weren't supercouples to begin with and wouldn't have been if TPTB wouldn't have had the nerve to take risks with characters that the viewers didn't know or care about,, and yes, I realize none of it would have worked without descent writing which is sadly lacking the last several years but assuming it's never going to happen?? And what a slap to those actors without a huge fanbase, suggesting they are not capable with a good story of creating excitement where none existed before. I guess I believe that the audience is more savvy...if something is entertaining, no matter who the characters are, they will tune it to watch it.
Sigh, I didnít suggest anything, what I actually said was that these characters have large fans bases and that is what keeps them on top and in frontburner storylines. When the 80ís ushered in the supercouple era, we were already well acquainted with half of each pairing.

I consider Roman and Marlena to be the first supercouple. Marlena was already a well established character when they brought in Roman. They added parts of Romanís family, first Kayla (played by Catherine Mary Stewart in the beginning) and she was an established character by the time they brought in Steve. Bo arrived for Roman and Marlenaís wedding and they brought back the character of Hope soarsed to meet Bo age, but Hope as Doug and Addieís daughter and Julieís stepdaughter had already been long established. Same with Jack and Jennifer, they soarased and brought back Jennifer from the same boarding school in Switzerland that Hope went to. And of course later Drake was brought in to play Roman and then John, with the well established character of Marlena. So adding these new characters wasnít all that risky, considering that the other half of each couple was already quite familiar to the audience.

Yes, none of it would have worked without decent writing and yes it has been sadly lacking the last several years. Long enough to realize that somebody shit in the talent pool in Hollywood. Days has suffered through some of the worst writers imaginable for over ten years now starting with the end of JERís first run, then to Sussman-Molina, Langan, Higley, Cwickley and Brash after that I kind of stop paying attention so Iím not sure if anyone came after those and before JERís second run, then Sheffer and now back to Higley. I think assuming that things arenít going to get better before the pink slip arrives would be a good one to make.

It really would help matters if you didnít misquote me. I DID NOT say that some actors werenít capable with a good story of creating excitement, although in some cases that is true. Some actors just arenít cut out for lead roles for whatever reason, that isnít unique to Days or daytime, a lot of actors have made a verygood living playing supporting characters. I have seen James Reynolds shine in a supporting role, thatís what has endeared him to me all these years, but I do think he has what it takes to be a lead, the answer is no.


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madelinehawaii


Flying Monkey
Sep 20 2008, 12:21 PM
madelinehawaii
Sep 18 2008, 09:17 PM
wow, I disagree with the marketability part of this post. Suggesting that the leads in a frontburner storyline HAVE to have a large fanbase to begin with completely flies in the face of why the 80s worked...those supercouples weren't supercouples to begin with and wouldn't have been if TPTB wouldn't have had the nerve to take risks with characters that the viewers didn't know or care about,, and yes, I realize none of it would have worked without descent writing which is sadly lacking the last several years but assuming it's never going to happen?? And what a slap to those actors without a huge fanbase, suggesting they are not capable with a good story of creating excitement where none existed before. I guess I believe that the audience is more savvy...if something is entertaining, no matter who the characters are, they will tune it to watch it.


Sigh, I didnít suggest anything, what I actually said was that these characters have large fans bases and that is what keeps them on top and in frontburner storylines. When the 80ís ushered in the supercouple era, we were already well acquainted with half of each pairing.



really?? that's what you said??...cause if you look at what you posted which I'm adding below, especially the part I put in bold, that isn't what you SAID at all....

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Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.


you will notice, it specifically says, the characters, such as Lexie and Abe have fanbases that are NOT large enough to warrent a frontburner story, warrent being the key word here, as in THAT is the reason characters with large fanbases ought to be frontburner and why those without, SHOULD not. That does not say being a character with a large fanbase is what is keeping said character on the frontburner, which by the way is a complete misnomer since S/K, J/M, B/H have spent large amounts of time in the last couple of years OFF the frontbunner, especially last year

eta: I also bolded the first sentence in the quote...having a right to a frontbuner storyline is NOT the same thing as getting one due to established popularity

and your idea of the audience being well acquainted with a character (and the actor whose chemistry made the couple in question) and mine are obviously worlds apart lol

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Yes, none of it would have worked without decent writing and yes it has been sadly lacking the last several years. Long enough to realize that somebody shit in the talent pool in Hollywood. Days has suffered through some of the worst writers imaginable for over ten years now starting with the end of JERís first run, then to Sussman-Molina, Langan, Higley, Cwickley and Brash after that I kind of stop paying attention so Iím not sure if anyone came after those and before JERís second run, then Sheffer and now back to Higley. I think assuming that things arenít going to get better before the pink slip arrives would be a good one to make.


just because you don't consider all of the people on that list talented, doesn't mean most other posters would agree and you might want to think about basing your view of the writing on something other than merely how they treated your couple. That is not the basis for whether a writer is talented or not. The ONLY fans I've seen complain about Cwickley and Brash's tenure was a portion of the J/M fanbase. There were probably others that I've missed but that still does not make them shitty writers, but writers you didn't like. I didn't like JER on either of his runs at Days but I would never suggest that means he's a shitty writer.

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It really would help matters if you didnít misquote me. I DID NOT say that some actors werenít capable with a good story of creating excitement, although in some cases that is true.


perhaps you remember writing this line??

That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been

you do understand that creating excitement means they would be a drawing card as you put it?? After all, that was the entire point of your post, marketability...right? Excitement=viewer attention and positive feedback

also, the entire quote above that I posted from which I took this sentence implies that you believed that could not be the case...that actors without the large fanbases could not generate excitement because in your words...it all comes down to popularity That entire paragraph was about why popularity is important in your opinion and that those who don't have it can not be marketable, period and you explain why you believed that was the case.

Quote:
 
Some actors just arenít cut out for lead roles for whatever reason, that isnít unique to Days or daytime, a lot of actors have made a verygood living playing supporting characters. I have seen James Reynolds shine in a supporting role, thatís what has endeared him to me all these years, but I do think he has what it takes to be a lead, the answer is no.


I think we've already established numerous times that we completely disagree about talent and the actor's abilities and where that can take them if they get a good enough story. I'm curious...is taking risks, even stupid ones something you believe in? That is how people grow...doing things they didn't believe possible and I have little respect for those who listen to anyone telling them something is impossible, and a lot of respect for those who completely ignore such attitudes.




Edited by madelinehawaii, Sep 20 2008, 02:07 PM.
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