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DAYS:Daily spoilers for wk of 9/15
Topic Started: Sep 13 2008, 02:46 PM (3,651 Views)
ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

madelinehawaii
Sep 20 2008, 02:05 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 20 2008, 12:21 PM
madelinehawaii
Sep 18 2008, 09:17 PM
wow, I disagree with the marketability part of this post. Suggesting that the leads in a frontburner storyline HAVE to have a large fanbase to begin with completely flies in the face of why the 80s worked...those supercouples weren't supercouples to begin with and wouldn't have been if TPTB wouldn't have had the nerve to take risks with characters that the viewers didn't know or care about,, and yes, I realize none of it would have worked without descent writing which is sadly lacking the last several years but assuming it's never going to happen?? And what a slap to those actors without a huge fanbase, suggesting they are not capable with a good story of creating excitement where none existed before. I guess I believe that the audience is more savvy...if something is entertaining, no matter who the characters are, they will tune it to watch it.


Sigh, I didnít suggest anything, what I actually said was that these characters have large fans bases and that is what keeps them on top and in frontburner storylines. When the 80ís ushered in the supercouple era, we were already well acquainted with half of each pairing.



really?? that's what you said??...cause if you look at what you posted which I'm adding below, especially the part I put in bold, that isn't what you SAID at all....

Quote:
 
Ok, here is what gives characters like Steve and Kayla and others the right to a frontburner storyline, it all comes down to popularity, which means marketability. Time served doesn't automatically give a character/actor the rights to a frontburner storyline. The fact that James Reynolds or Renee Jones or whoever have been on Days X number of years is not a guarantee or entitlement to be the lead in a storyline. This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance to play, it's a business. The fan bases for these characters just are not big enough to warrant that. That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been. I know Renee Jones has been invoved in several big stories in the past, but until she got this story I didn't see many or any posts about her or the character or any campaigns to put her into a story.


you will notice, it specifically says, the characters, such as Lexie and Abe have fanbases that are NOT large enough to warrent a frontburner story, warrent being the key word here, as in THAT is the reason characters with large fanbases ought to be frontburner and why those without, SHOULD not. That does not say being a character with a large fanbase is what is keeping said character on the frontburner, which by the way is a complete misnomer since S/K, J/M, B/H have spent large amounts of time in the last couple of years OFF the frontbunner, especially last year

eta: I also bolded the first sentence in the quote...having a right to a frontbuner storyline is NOT the same thing as getting one due to established popularity

and your idea of the audience being well acquainted with a character (and the actor whose chemistry made the couple in question) and mine are obviously worlds apart lol

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Yes, none of it would have worked without decent writing and yes it has been sadly lacking the last several years. Long enough to realize that somebody shit in the talent pool in Hollywood. Days has suffered through some of the worst writers imaginable for over ten years now starting with the end of JERís first run, then to Sussman-Molina, Langan, Higley, Cwickley and Brash after that I kind of stop paying attention so Iím not sure if anyone came after those and before JERís second run, then Sheffer and now back to Higley. I think assuming that things arenít going to get better before the pink slip arrives would be a good one to make.


just because you don't consider all of the people on that list talented, doesn't mean most other posters would agree and you might want to think about basing your view of the writing on something other than merely how they treated your couple. That is not the basis for whether a writer is talented or not. The ONLY fans I've seen complain about Cwickley and Brash's tenure was a portion of the J/M fanbase. There were probably others that I've missed but that still does not make them shitty writers, but writers you didn't like. I didn't like JER on either of his runs at Days but I would never suggest that means he's a shitty writer.

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It really would help matters if you didnít misquote me. I DID NOT say that some actors werenít capable with a good story of creating excitement, although in some cases that is true.


perhaps you remember writing this line??

That they've been the Days for so long now shows that if they were ever going to be a big drawing card, they already would have been

you do understand that creating excitement means they would be a drawing card as you put it?? After all, that was the entire point of your post, marketability...right? Excitement=viewer attention and positive feedback

also, the entire quote above that I posted from which I took this sentence implies that you believed that could not be the case...that actors without the large fanbases could not generate excitement because in your words...it all comes down to popularity That entire paragraph was about why popularity is important in your opinion and that those who don't have it can not be marketable, period and you explain why you believed that was the case.

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Some actors just arenít cut out for lead roles for whatever reason, that isnít unique to Days or daytime, a lot of actors have made a verygood living playing supporting characters. I have seen James Reynolds shine in a supporting role, thatís what has endeared him to me all these years, but I do think he has what it takes to be a lead, the answer is no.


I think we've already established numerous times that we completely disagree about talent and the actor's abilities and where that can take them if they get a good enough story. I'm curious...is taking risks, even stupid ones something you believe in? That is how people grow...doing things they didn't believe possible and I have little respect for those who listen to anyone telling them something is impossible, and a lot of respect for those who completely ignore such attitudes.




Let me see how many bows and hearts I can give you, Madeline.
:hail: :hail: :hail: :wub2: :wub2:
What an excellent post.
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Flying Monkey
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Madeline:

Iím making this a two parter just for youÖ

Rather than post individual replies your last two posts to me, I donít want to clutter up the board this will long enough as is. Theyíre here if anyone cares to read them if they can get past the tap dancing and spinning of wheels. Some of it is unintelligible and some of it just arguing over things you claim we already agree on but keep bringing up as if there is some problem with my opinion on it.

Iím not going to waste my time and everyone elseís on things that donít warrant a response. Iíll just highlight some of my particular favorite posts by you directed to me for examples.

Letís go back to where this started.

I stated my opinion in a thread of how I had always considered Abe and Lexie to be secondary characters. A thread you were not involved in at the time. And went on to surmise what I think will happen in the awful autism story and how Lexie will proceed to cheat on him once again. And that I thought Abe deserved better. Here is how you respondedÖ

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you like him supporting your favorites so much (which is what he's spent years doing), he shouldn't be a leading character? That is your idea of the character deserving more?? Ouch


You donít know me and yet instantly jumped to conclusions about me. Was it the J&M banner? Did that tell you everything you needed to know to make this assumption? Thatís shortsighted and unfair to someone you just met. I liked the banner and borrowed it from a friend. I donít know how to make banners and if I included everyone that I liked then it would be kind of large.

The best part was your telling me what I think. I never stated I liked him supporting just my favorites you jumped to that conclusion and ran with it. Abe hasnít had many scenes with or done much supporting for J&M in ages, so you couldnít mean them.

I have never presumed to know who your favorites are or accused you of only liking them only when they are supporting your favorites. I have never questioned your loyalty as a fan of a character/actor. Doing all that would be audacious and rude. I responded with civility and let this go, which in retrospect I probably should have addressed immediately.

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I didn't accuse you of anything lol...I pointed out that it appeared that you wanted Abe to remain a supporting character because he would continue to prop your favorites.


Yeah, ya did and you just did again with this statement and with zero basis for it. You still donít know who I enjoy watching Abe with, you never bothered to ask you made up your mind without any facts. I certainly havenít done that to you.

I had been enjoying talking about the show with lots of civil and intelligent posters voicing their various opinions until you chimed in and proceeded to tell me what I think and how I feel about Abe as if you somehow really know more about what I think and mean than I do. LOL!

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ok, though I don't see that make one character or the other more deserving, except for you personally. Just because a character has a higher degree of morality doesn't make that character more deserving than another(unless that is the case for you because you like Abe better).


Getting accusatory again arenít you? ďExcept for you personally.Ē And personal too. I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours but you are not entitled to get personal and be accusatory and all because you don't like what I said about about a soap character.

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speaking of putting words into someone else's mouth


Hmmm, I pretty sure I said, IÖ but let me check real quickÖ Yes, I did say I. Saying I before making a statement implies that someone is stating their opinion or thoughts.

Your rabid fixation for misquoting and repeated twists would give most anyone the impression you were itching for a fight. Good luck with that btw.

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you will notice, it specifically says, the characters, such as Lexie and Abe have fanbases that are NOT large enough to warrent a frontburner story, warrent being the key word here, as in THAT is the reason characters with large fanbases ought to be frontburner and why those without, SHOULD not. That does not say being a character with a large fanbase is what is keeping said character on the frontburner,


And you do notice the text you chose to quote me on is from a in depth, very enjoyable and pleasantly stimulating discussion I was having with another poster and in response to a question that he asked me and to which I gave my opinion and I still stand by.

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which by the way is a complete misnomer since S/K, J/M, B/H have spent large amounts of time in the last couple of years OFF the frontbunner, especially last year.


You did say "the past couple of years" and that would be the misnomer.

In 2007 four of the big six ranked in the top fifteen in episode rankings out of a cast of often fifty plus. The other two ranked in the top half. Do really think that Days with all itís money crunches would keep paying their salaries if they didn't believe that they were still their biggest assets even if they writers don't have a clue what to do with them.

And thus far for 2008 except for June and July when only Peter Reckell made it into the top twelve during Boís health crisis. The remaining seven months of this year at least four of the six have consistently made it into the top twelve out of a field of around 50 plus each month.

Here is the link to prove it.

http://members.aol.com/jason47b/2008episodes.html

All those who ranked into the top fifteen for last year and this year have sizable fan bases, granted some are larger than others.
Edited by Flying Monkey, Sep 21 2008, 01:03 AM.
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Flying Monkey
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Part two for Madeline:

Quote:
 
and your idea of the audience being well acquainted with a character (and the actor whose chemistry made the couple in question) and mine are obviously worlds apart lol


I can only guess that ďyour idea of the audience being acquainted with a characterĒ means you are referring my post to you about each half of the supercouples?

So you deny that that Marlena who had been on the show for at least five years and was popular as Mickeyís therapist in Bayview and later in the popular pairing of Don and Marlena for some time, wasnít an established character?

That Hope who most viewers knew from relatively recent history at the time as Doug and Addieís daughter, the little girl Addie risked her life to have and then died to save wasnít an established character?

That Kayla who was brought in and was on the show sometime having been paired with Chris Kositchek and probably dated at least one other guy before being married to and raped by Jack before Steve came along wasnít and established character?

That Jennifer well known to be the child of Laura Horton who was raped by her brother-in-law Bill Horton while she was married to his brother Mickey, who came back in í85 as a troubled teen who grew up before our eyes and had several love interests Glenn Gallagher and I think some other guy, then in the popular pairing of Frankie and Jennifer and later with Emilio before Jack and she fell in love wasnít already and established character?

Making all these pairings much less risky than ones with two entirely new or much less familiar characters.

Denying the truth is a personal choice on your part. It wonít change the real history of the era and the couples in question. I remember most of it from watching it when it aired. But just in case, I visited a couple of well known Days sites that have extensive character histories just to double check my facts. Do you need links so you can brush up on your history?

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I'm curious...is taking risks, even stupid ones something you believe in? That is how people grow...doing things they didn't believe possible and I have little respect for those who listen to anyone telling them something is impossible, and a lot of respect for those who completely ignore such attitudes.


Giving me life lessons on growth is just bit condescending wouldn't you say since I'm all grown up and don't need you to interpret things for me. Examining and weighing all the options and possibilities before taking a risk is most prudent.

Taking stupid risks can have a happy outcome on rare occasions but more often then not it will get you killed. Days doesnít have the time or the resources to waste on stupid risks. Itís obvious you donít have respect for anyone who has a different point of view from yours.

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if you can't handle behaving yourself in a civil manner without accusing someone else of attacking you just because that person read something into your post you weren't expecting, perhaps you should refrain from debating. I have not called you rude, only pointed out at that what you did in the original post which I responded to came across in a far different way to me that you obviously think it did or should.


You certainly do like to be condescending and to be so isnít civil. I have behaved in a civil manner to everyone on this board including you. No, you havenít called me rude and I never said you did, you would have no reason for doing it. You have on the other hand behaved rudely towards me and it all began with my saying what I felt about two characters.

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Plenty of things said in this median can be interpreted in ways the poster didn't expect.


Sure anyone can invent whatever interpretation they so chose for anything at all and in unexpected ways. Someone could interpret your above statement to say that you eat cheese in bed while listening to Donny Osmond records. Doesnít make it right or true or even remotely connected to what was really said. I'm completely aware of how people can interpret things to suit themselves it's phenomenon I've experienced before and again very recently. But thanks for trying to condescend to me again and trying to explain the obvious.

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That means I read something into it that you say you didn't mean


I think this one is most precious of all the things youíve said to me! If I wrote something then who would know better about what I meant by it? You? So you think I need you to interpret what I really mean by something I say because you can ďread something into itĒ that isnít really there at all except in your own mind? Pass.

This will be my last response to anything you chose to say until you understand the difference between debating and picking a fight. And when youíve decided to stop misquoting me at every turn. And after youíve learned to conduct yourself in a civil manner and give your opinions rather than attacking whatever I say as if I donít have the right to my opinions. Not until there is a halt to condescention. And lastly when you stop believing that you know more about what I think and mean than I do and stop trying to tell me that you do. Have a nice day!
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madelinehawaii


crap, I haven't laughed this hard in days...thanks

please, just for my curiosity and because I have this feeling that the answer is going to even funnier than the last post, wth was the purpose of the quote below? I mean, you do understand that you're participating in a message board...that just because you're quoting someone else that there are no rules that stop the rest of us from commenting?

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And you do notice the text you chose to quote me on is from a in depth, very enjoyable and pleasantly stimulating discussion I was having with another poster and in response to a question that he asked me and to which I gave my opinion and I still stand by.


I'd reply to the rest of this but repeating myself is kind of a waste of everyone's time, especially yours and mine, not to mention the distinct feeling of deja vu I'm getting

eta...

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So you think I need you to interpret what I really mean by something I say because you can ďread something into itĒ that isnít really there at all except in your own mind?


funny how you replied to everything BUT the statements in which I used your own words to show that you said something you insisted that you did not say or mean...ok, other than one, but that was only used by you to suggest that I was butting in to someone else's conversation. You went to such great lengths to reply to every other thing I had to say but didn't touch any of those points. Wonder why...

perhaps because it would show it's not just in my own mind.

And interpretation does not include going off on a tangent or making up whatever you feel like...it means using what was actually said along with implied meaning...i.e. using the meanings of words to interpret what is not explicitly spelled out in the context of the paragraph or text...a subject that is taught in reading in every elementary school in the world...so no, I'm not making it up
Edited by madelinehawaii, Sep 21 2008, 03:35 AM.
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jane1978


Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM
Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.

The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.
Sorry, but this is a joke, right? Because even ten time Ocar winner writer would have a trouble to write for the big three at this point. As someone above already said, THEY ARE ALREADY IN LOVE, so whatīs the point? The whole system of obstacles and romantic adventures works only when a couple is still not established, when the obstacles can actually really threaten the couple, when the viewers feel something is really at stake.

Steve and Kalya are together and in love, Bo and Hope are together and in love. What kind of romantic adventure they can have? They are years past the point most of audience waited at the end of their seats till they finally admit their love for each other. They are past the point where some obstacle could really danger their relationship. Yes, it can be fun to watch them fight something together and banter all the way, but thatīs not what soaps and especially DAYS are about.

You are saying the most important thing is the popularity and the writer has to write for who is popular no matter how hard or not creative it is. Yet, even Doug/Julie, the most supercouple ever, was one day backburnered to make a place for a new generation when the EP felt they already used any realistic obstacle available and is time the rest them. The big three are way past the point.

I really think what you and the rest of hardcore supercouple fans want is sort of impossible. Not only that, but itīs unfair to us, general viewers, because instead the writers could put all their energy into creating a really good and interesting stories for the fresher couples/characters who really needs the airtime to prove themselves and grow a fanbase on their own, they have to spend most of their time making up the most crazy and unbelivavle plots just so the tired circle can repeat yet again. Just look at the last 15 years. Itīs nothing but a plot device after plot device to keep the big three relevant and still important for the show.

The big three still have their place on the show but as a support, as the parents, as the hard working and succesfull doctors, cops, whatever. Not love sick teenagers.
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madelinehawaii


jane1978
Sep 21 2008, 03:48 AM
Flying Monkey
Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM
Any good writer worth their salt could come up with fresh and exciting stories for all the characters including romantic adventures concerning the big three.

The point in putting the big three in another romantic/adventure storyline is because it is what the majority of the audience wants to see, only Days has no clue how to execute that onto the screen. If only they could find a head writer who knows the golden rule of soap writing, which is you have forget who your favorites are and concentrate on the audience's favorites. Someone with a modicum of talent, who would actually do their homework on characters they aren't familiar with, then you might have a change of attitude. It isn't the supercouple that's become boring, it's the writing.
Sorry, but this is a joke, right? Because even ten time Ocar winner writer would have a trouble to write for the big three at this point. As someone above already said, THEY ARE ALREADY IN LOVE, so whatīs the point? The whole system of obstacles and romantic adventures works only when a couple is still not established, when the obstacles can actually really threaten the couple, when the viewers feel something is really at stake.

Steve and Kalya are together and in love, Bo and Hope are together and in love. What kind of romantic adventure they can have? They are years past the point most of audience waited at the end of their seats till they finally admit their love for each other. They are past the point where some obstacle could really danger their relationship. Yes, it can be fun to watch them fight something together and banter all the way, but thatīs not what soaps and especially DAYS are about.

You are saying the most important thing is the popularity and the writer has to write for who is popular no matter how hard or not creative it is. Yet, even Doug/Julie, the most supercouple ever, was one day backburnered to make a place for a new generation when the EP felt they already used any realistic obstacle available and is time the rest them. The big three are way past the point.

I really think what you and the rest of hardcore supercouple fans want is sort of impossible. Not only that, but itīs unfair to us, general viewers, because instead the writers could put all their energy into creating a really good and interesting stories for the fresher couples/characters who really needs the airtime to prove themselves and grow a fanbase on their own, they have to spend most of their time making up the most crazy and unbelivavle plots just so the tired circle can repeat yet again. Just look at the last 15 years. Itīs nothing but a plot device after plot device to keep the big three relevant and still important for the show.

The big three still have their place on the show but as a support, as the parents, as the hard working and succesfull doctors, cops, whatever. Not love sick teenagers.
this post is a thing of beauty :applause: :applause: :applause:
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Flying Monkey
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jane1978
Sep 21 2008, 03:48 AM







Quote:
 
Sorry, but this is a joke, right?


Is your post a joke?

Quote:
 
Because even ten time Ocar winner writer would have a trouble to write for the big three at this point. As someone above already said, THEY ARE ALREADY IN LOVE, so whatīs the point? The whole system of obstacles and romantic adventures works only when a couple is still not established, when the obstacles can actually really threaten the couple, when the viewers feel something is really at stake.


And you know this because? I donít remember Days hiring any ten time Oscar winners to write for the show. So John (then Roman) and Marlena fell in love twenty-two years ago and they have had plenty of adventures since and there are still a bunch more they could do with them and a heap load of romantic adventure. Bo and Hope have been together longer and I know their fans could easily tell you what they want to see.

Quote:
 
Steve and Kalya are together and in love, Bo and Hope are together and in love. What kind of romantic adventure they can have?


Iím not an S&K or a B&H fans and so Iím not totally up on all their history, but Iím sure if I sat down and talked to several of their fans they could give me plenty of ideas for their favorites. That leaves J&M and I can think of numerous things based in the real history alone that have yet to be covered and I know other J&M who can too.

Quote:
 
They are years past the point most of audience waited at the end of their seats till they finally admit their love for each other. They are past the point where some obstacle could really danger their relationship. Yes, it can be fun to watch them fight something together and banter all the way, but thatīs not what soaps and especially DAYS are about.


I would disagree, that is mostly what soaps and Days are about.

Quote:
 
You are saying the most important thing is the popularity and the writer has to write for who is popular no matter how hard or not creative it is.


So I guess youíve never read Douglas Marlandís ďHow Not to Wreck a ShowĒ?Ö http://www.soap-news.com/gl/marland042793.htm Still holds true today, the man knew his shit. A writer who canít come up with good storylines for the majority of the main characters needs to find a new occupation seriously.

Quote:
 
Yet, even Doug/Julie, the most supercouple ever, was one day backburnered to make a place for a new generation when the EP felt they already used any realistic obstacle available and is time the rest them. The big three are way past the point.


So you know it was the EP who made the decision to backburner Doug and Julie? Could it be that the fans of Doug and Julie simply liked other pairings better and didnít mind D&J being backburnered? Iím think Iím pretty safe in saying the fans of the current big three donít feel the same way at all.

Quote:
 
I really think what you and the rest of hardcore supercouple fans want is sort of impossible. Not only that, but itīs unfair to us, general viewers, because instead the writers could put all their energy into creating a really good and interesting stories for the fresher couples/characters who really needs the airtime to prove themselves and grow a fanbase on their own, they have to spend most of their time making up the most crazy and unbelivavle plots just so the tired circle can repeat yet again. Just look at the last 15 years. Itīs nothing but a plot device after plot device to keep the big three relevant and still important for the show.


I donít think itís impossible at all. Days is on the precipice now, there is no time to build up a fanbase for a new character. NBC still has yet to announce if they will renew and for how long. Last time it was only a year, thatís not enough time to throw out all the old characters and bring in all new ones and actually have any viewers left who give a shit. I would think anyone who loves Days and wants to continue watching it would welcome whatever saves the day for now and worry about the future if there actually is one later.

Quote:
 
The big three still have their place on the show but as a support, as the parents, as the hard working and succesfull doctors, cops, whatever. Not love sick teenagers.


They tried pushing them into supporting roles more than once and it has always failed. Are you making an ageist remark that people say over the age of thirty have no right to be in love or display affection or god forbid have sex? That all those things are strictly reserved for the youth? And that people canít enjoy seeing that from mature couples? I would hope not.

Btw you do realize that I am a fan of a few of the newer couples and characters, but none are strong enough or ready to take over the reigns yet and Days desperately needs viewers right now, instead of trying to drive away the few it has left.




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jules


Flying Monkey
Sep 21 2008, 05:03 AM
jane1978
Sep 21 2008, 03:48 AM







Quote:
 
Sorry, but this is a joke, right?


Is your post a joke?

Quote:
 
Because even ten time Ocar winner writer would have a trouble to write for the big three at this point. As someone above already said, THEY ARE ALREADY IN LOVE, so whatīs the point? The whole system of obstacles and romantic adventures works only when a couple is still not established, when the obstacles can actually really threaten the couple, when the viewers feel something is really at stake.


And you know this because? I donít remember Days hiring any ten time Oscar winners to write for the show. So John (then Roman) and Marlena fell in love twenty-two years ago and they have had plenty of adventures since and there are still a bunch more they could do with them and a heap load of romantic adventure. Bo and Hope have been together longer and I know their fans could easily tell you what they want to see.

Quote:
 
Steve and Kalya are together and in love, Bo and Hope are together and in love. What kind of romantic adventure they can have?


Iím not an S&K or a B&H fans and so Iím not totally up on all their history, but Iím sure if I sat down and talked to several of their fans they could give me plenty of ideas for their favorites. That leaves J&M and I can think of numerous things based in the real history alone that have yet to be covered and I know other J&M who can too.

Quote:
 
They are years past the point most of audience waited at the end of their seats till they finally admit their love for each other. They are past the point where some obstacle could really danger their relationship. Yes, it can be fun to watch them fight something together and banter all the way, but thatīs not what soaps and especially DAYS are about.


I would disagree, that is mostly what soaps and Days are about.

Quote:
 
You are saying the most important thing is the popularity and the writer has to write for who is popular no matter how hard or not creative it is.


So I guess youíve never read Douglas Marlandís ďHow Not to Wreck a ShowĒ?Ö http://www.soap-news.com/gl/marland042793.htm Still holds true today, the man knew his shit. A writer who canít come up with good storylines for the majority of the main characters needs to find a new occupation seriously.

Quote:
 
Yet, even Doug/Julie, the most supercouple ever, was one day backburnered to make a place for a new generation when the EP felt they already used any realistic obstacle available and is time the rest them. The big three are way past the point.


So you know it was the EP who made the decision to backburner Doug and Julie? Could it be that the fans of Doug and Julie simply liked other pairings better and didnít mind D&J being backburnered? Iím think Iím pretty safe in saying the fans of the current big three donít feel the same way at all.

Quote:
 
I really think what you and the rest of hardcore supercouple fans want is sort of impossible. Not only that, but itīs unfair to us, general viewers, because instead the writers could put all their energy into creating a really good and interesting stories for the fresher couples/characters who really needs the airtime to prove themselves and grow a fanbase on their own, they have to spend most of their time making up the most crazy and unbelivavle plots just so the tired circle can repeat yet again. Just look at the last 15 years. Itīs nothing but a plot device after plot device to keep the big three relevant and still important for the show.


I donít think itís impossible at all. Days is on the precipice now, there is no time to build up a fanbase for a new character. NBC still has yet to announce if they will renew and for how long. Last time it was only a year, thatís not enough time to throw out all the old characters and bring in all new ones and actually have any viewers left who give a shit. I would think anyone who loves Days and wants to continue watching it would welcome whatever saves the day for now and worry about the future if there actually is one later.

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The big three still have their place on the show but as a support, as the parents, as the hard working and succesfull doctors, cops, whatever. Not love sick teenagers.


They tried pushing them into supporting roles more than once and it has always failed. Are you making an ageist remark that people say over the age of thirty have no right to be in love or display affection or god forbid have sex? That all those things are strictly reserved for the youth? And that people canít enjoy seeing that from mature couples? I would hope not.

Btw you do realize that I am a fan of a few of the newer couples and characters, but none are strong enough or ready to take over the reigns yet and Days desperately needs viewers right now, instead of trying to drive away the few it has left.




Great post Flying Monkey. I certainly didn't think your post was a joke! I really hate when fans blame trying to write for the supercouples for the demise of Days. How about writing compelling stories for the newbies and actually hiring newer characters who can act. Or not throwing them into front burner stories before the audience knows them and can get invested in what happens to them. In the last few years John and Marlena have had the set up for some good stories, but whoever was writing at the time seemed to mess them up. Marlena's amenesia story had such a great set up, but it turned into a psycho Alex North drugging Marlena. I'm sure the other supercouple fans can come up with similar examples. For me, it all comes back to failure of the writing.
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Kyrai


Flying Monkey
Sep 21 2008, 05:03 AM
Quote:
 
The big three still have their place on the show but as a support, as the parents, as the hard working and succesfull doctors, cops, whatever. Not love sick teenagers.


They tried pushing them into supporting roles more than once and it has always failed. Are you making an ageist remark that people say over the age of thirty have no right to be in love or display affection or god forbid have sex? That all those things are strictly reserved for the youth? And that people canít enjoy seeing that from mature couples? I would hope not.

Btw you do realize that I am a fan of a few of the newer couples and characters, but none are strong enough or ready to take over the reigns yet and Days desperately needs viewers right now, instead of trying to drive away the few it has left.




I'm a fan of Jarlena, Bope, Tanna, and Payla. I certainly like their stories, and don't think they should just be support by any means. Honestly, they are the reason I watch. Just because they are in love, I don't think their stories are limited. I don't think the only thing soaps can do are 'meet, fall in love, go thru hurdles, get married, fall in and out of love stories'. I can think of many stories I would like to see with these characters that aren't based on having to fall in and out of love. It's all in how you do handle it.

Similarly, I want and enjoy the younger stories. I enjoy Ej, Sami, Phillip, Chelsea, Nick, Max, and Stephanie, but I do want better stories for them. The Dansea story just did not do anything for me. I tried, but it really repelled me. I don't enjoy Chloe, Lucas, or Morgan because I don't care for their acting (or lack thereof - jmo). I'd love to see the younger characters I do enjoy with better stories, more natural pairings. I feel like in the old days, the writers just let the characters get involved in stories first to see which relationships made sense. Then they progressed somewhat naturally from there. Patch was originally a short term player, but they liked his chemistry with Kayla, and suddenly they were a good couple. It felt like I was rooting for them to be a couple before tptb decided they were going to be a couple, and it made me root all the harder, be more excited when it all panned out. It may be me, but I'm missing that with these couples. It feels reversed like they're trying to tell me who I want as a couple and pull me along vs. me pulling for my couple. Phorgan, Dansea, and Stax felt like that.

The only situation that had me rooting, EJ/Sami has become such a convoluted mess, I'm literally tired of them all. I tried to get into EJ/Nicole, but I really just cannot like Nicole and Ej as a couple. It's a 'me' thing, but I like to think the couple really love each other, care. In theory, I should be able to like a different type of couple who are selfish and snarky and funny and don't really care about anyone, don't really have any moral fiber, but I just can't. I personally like a selfless love, but I know that's 'me' and others probably love something different like this. I'm willing to see how it plays out. I'd just like them to give me a real story vs. forcing something that isn't there. I've had so many times where the couple I've rooted for have lost that I know it won't kill me IF they do it well or if other couples that I enjoy can get me over the hurdle. I do like Nicole. I just don't like her with Ej. She and he both lose something for me. As a flirtation or change of pace, I'd buy it, but not as a real love story. I'd rather her actually find someone that she does really care for more than money, and see her make selfless choices for that person. Again, I know that I'm locked into a real love kinda thing. Depending on how this pans out, someday I may look back and love whatever direction they go in. Won't be the first time. But please, for the love of God, go somewhere!

While I love a good love story, I also love good stories of friendship and family. To me, the problems with the current stories are that friendship and family are often pushed aside because they only care about the couples. For example, I remember when John and Kate turned to each other when they thought Marlena and Roman were dead. While I didn't care for John being addicted to drugs (painful!), it worked to connect Kate and John for me. I loved them being there for each other. Did I suddenly not want Marlena and John together? No, but I did like John and Kate. When Marlena came back, I expected a lot of interesting stuff to play out. A bit of jealousy between these four, but I wanted John and Kate to remain close friends after what they went thru together. Instead, we got the Marlena miscarriage and Dr. North debacle. Kate tried to help John get Marlena back from Dr. North, but then she just suddenly faded away like the friendship was never there. It was like Kate was completely dropped from John's life after all she did for him. Friendships seem to have no meaning, only love counts. I actually like close deep friendships and family. I've seen some shades of friendships trying to come back, but they don't really seem to be a part of the show anymore. I miss the closeness.

I think tptb should look at the cast as a whole and may have to trim where some won't like. While I love my vets, I wonder if there is room to do them all justice. Much as it pains me, they need to get rid of dead weight and introduce new characters. Stop doing young vs. old and interweave the stories so we can learn to love the younger characters like we do the old. Let us see both together. Create enjoyable stories first, let love develop naturally for those not in love, reinforce the love in those characters that are in love.

It seems we only have cop or doc stories now. There are other jobs. I miss Doug's place with Doug, Robert, and Liz crooning out songs while our couples in love or near love danced together. How about a young person trying to break into the music world? A young person struggling to work his way thru college, struggling to make ends meet instead of having everything handed to him? A troubled teen in a difficult home situation? I like seeing young people mature and overcome obstacles more than a bunch of spoiled smarmy yuppies acting like 2 year olds. Give me real stories, and I will go for them!



Edited by Kyrai, Sep 21 2008, 06:53 AM.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

jules
Sep 21 2008, 06:15 AM
Flying Monkey
Sep 21 2008, 05:03 AM
jane1978
Sep 21 2008, 03:48 AM







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Sorry, but this is a joke, right?


Is your post a joke?

Quote:
 
Because even ten time Ocar winner writer would have a trouble to write for the big three at this point. As someone above already said, THEY ARE ALREADY IN LOVE, so whatīs the point? The whole system of obstacles and romantic adventures works only when a couple is still not established, when the obstacles can actually really threaten the couple, when the viewers feel something is really at stake.


And you know this because? I donít remember Days hiring any ten time Oscar winners to write for the show. So John (then Roman) and Marlena fell in love twenty-two years ago and they have had plenty of adventures since and there are still a bunch more they could do with them and a heap load of romantic adventure. Bo and Hope have been together longer and I know their fans could easily tell you what they want to see.

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Steve and Kalya are together and in love, Bo and Hope are together and in love. What kind of romantic adventure they can have?


Iím not an S&K or a B&H fans and so Iím not totally up on all their history, but Iím sure if I sat down and talked to several of their fans they could give me plenty of ideas for their favorites. That leaves J&M and I can think of numerous things based in the real history alone that have yet to be covered and I know other J&M who can too.

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They are years past the point most of audience waited at the end of their seats till they finally admit their love for each other. They are past the point where some obstacle could really danger their relationship. Yes, it can be fun to watch them fight something together and banter all the way, but thatīs not what soaps and especially DAYS are about.


I would disagree, that is mostly what soaps and Days are about.

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You are saying the most important thing is the popularity and the writer has to write for who is popular no matter how hard or not creative it is.


So I guess youíve never read Douglas Marlandís ďHow Not to Wreck a ShowĒ?Ö http://www.soap-news.com/gl/marland042793.htm Still holds true today, the man knew his shit. A writer who canít come up with good storylines for the majority of the main characters needs to find a new occupation seriously.

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Yet, even Doug/Julie, the most supercouple ever, was one day backburnered to make a place for a new generation when the EP felt they already used any realistic obstacle available and is time the rest them. The big three are way past the point.


So you know it was the EP who made the decision to backburner Doug and Julie? Could it be that the fans of Doug and Julie simply liked other pairings better and didnít mind D&J being backburnered? Iím think Iím pretty safe in saying the fans of the current big three donít feel the same way at all.

Quote:
 
I really think what you and the rest of hardcore supercouple fans want is sort of impossible. Not only that, but itīs unfair to us, general viewers, because instead the writers could put all their energy into creating a really good and interesting stories for the fresher couples/characters who really needs the airtime to prove themselves and grow a fanbase on their own, they have to spend most of their time making up the most crazy and unbelivavle plots just so the tired circle can repeat yet again. Just look at the last 15 years. Itīs nothing but a plot device after plot device to keep the big three relevant and still important for the show.


I donít think itís impossible at all. Days is on the precipice now, there is no time to build up a fanbase for a new character. NBC still has yet to announce if they will renew and for how long. Last time it was only a year, thatís not enough time to throw out all the old characters and bring in all new ones and actually have any viewers left who give a shit. I would think anyone who loves Days and wants to continue watching it would welcome whatever saves the day for now and worry about the future if there actually is one later.

Quote:
 
The big three still have their place on the show but as a support, as the parents, as the hard working and succesfull doctors, cops, whatever. Not love sick teenagers.


They tried pushing them into supporting roles more than once and it has always failed. Are you making an ageist remark that people say over the age of thirty have no right to be in love or display affection or god forbid have sex? That all those things are strictly reserved for the youth? And that people canít enjoy seeing that from mature couples? I would hope not.

Btw you do realize that I am a fan of a few of the newer couples and characters, but none are strong enough or ready to take over the reigns yet and Days desperately needs viewers right now, instead of trying to drive away the few it has left.




Great post Flying Monkey. I certainly didn't think your post was a joke! I really hate when fans blame trying to write for the supercouples for the demise of Days. How about writing compelling stories for the newbies and actually hiring newer characters who can act. Or not throwing them into front burner stories before the audience knows them and can get invested in what happens to them. In the last few years John and Marlena have had the set up for some good stories, but whoever was writing at the time seemed to mess them up. Marlena's amenesia story had such a great set up, but it turned into a psycho Alex North drugging Marlena. I'm sure the other supercouple fans can come up with similar examples. For me, it all comes back to failure of the writing.

Jane and Madeline are spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Nuff said.
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Flying Monkey
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PhoenixRising05
Sep 18 2008, 09:09 PM


Sorry Phoenixrising that it took me so long to reply to your last post to me. It's getting way too long and you make some good points throughout. I hope you don't mind if I edit it down to just a few things I want to discuss. And forgive me if some of these are out of sequence.

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If Steve and Kayla (and keep in mind I adore them and have defended them on this very board when people suggested cutting them from the show) are so popular, how do you explain the ratings doing NOTHING when they returned?


I wasnít watching a lot during the period when S&K returned, but I was reading the boards. Feel free to correct me if Iím wrong here but wasnít it Shefferís idea to bring them back? I know he was at least involved in writing most of their storylines and he stated in the press that they were his favorite couple. It all comes down to the writing. You are absolutely right that S&Kís return did nothing for the ratings, but I wouldnít be so quick to blame the characters or the fans for that. Being saddled with a writer such as Sheffer or the numerous other hacks who helped to destroy this show bit by bit, each one do a little more damage then the last. They get the credit for most of the failing ratings along with the brain dead idiot who runs the show. A good writer could bring back Dave the bartender from Dougís Place and make it exciting.

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I also think you being very unfair in your assessment by saying that no one has campaigned or there was no outcry for characters like Abe and Lexie. Look around. I can assure you there is some.


I've been watching since the mid late 70's. I started buying the mags in the early 80's and I discovered the Days internet community about thirteen or so years ago. I've either posted or lurked on just about every message board out there past and present. I'm only new to DR.

Sure there is some. There will always be some for every character out there. Iíve seen several posts in the past championing the character of Bart and demanding his return. Honestly I have not seen any large fans bases for those characters we've mentioned or much if any campaigning and none vigorously.

And as to BALANCE that cry never crossed my lips or my fingertips just so ya know. ;)

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The popularity of Suzanne Rogers, John Clarke, Bill and Susan Hayes, and others did not wane yet they were cast aside for Bope, J&M, and Steve and Kayla. How do you explain that? Days could never get away with that now. They tried that same thing last year in early 2007 because Corday wanted to experiment and it failed. Fans in the 80's had to accept the turnover but I also think fans were more accepting of everything back then because, let me just say, the writing back then was all over the place too. The difference was that everything was fresh and new and often times fans get lost in that. I did too.


I beg to differ I do believe that certain actors/characters popularity waned. Once upon a time I loved Mickey and Maggie and still love Maggie to this day, but I was ok with their transition into a supporting role, along with Doug and Julie and I donít think a lot of the fans minded either. The same canít be said for the current of the current favorites. I once read an interview in one of the magazines with Ted Corday and he stressed the fact that he paid very close attention to the emails and calls they received at the studio that listening to the fans is what made Days successful. I would think there would have been a big outcry over D&J or M&M being pushed aside and the studio would have been flooded with mail and the switchboard lit up. I know I used to write letters.

As for B&H and J&M's storylines. Bope has the most but it's not really that many at all when you see it stretched out over time is it? And I don't think a lot of B&H fans would agree with some of your choices as being a B&H story. The fab four used to be in at the very least two or three main stories a year or more, and often in each others stories and supporting players btw, that era was all about BALANCE. But thanks for acknowledging that J&M haven't really had much of any story and some of those mentioned weren't what I'd call a J&M story in ages.

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True, not many romantic adventures but, seriously, how many can do you? Are you willing to settle for rehash after rehash? I mean, even a writer at their best can only do so much. You can't just keep doing the same things. The audience does not want to see that.


There are still one or two left undone. How about Marlenaís missing years when everyone thought she was dead. When she came back in í91, RoJohn was more interested in where she had been and what had happened to her than Marlena was. I remember a scene between Alice and Marlena in Shenanigans when Alice said Marlena didnít look to happy about going to San Cristobal to investigate and Marlena told Alice that she didnít want to know. They went down did a little investigating for a day or two, came home and that was that on the subject entirely, except I think for one brief reference when Marlena was playing chess with Stefano and he said something about teaching her to play. I would still like to know exactly where she was and if she was really in a coma or something else entirely. And it could lead to discovering a long lost child that Marlena was just pregnant with when her plane went down. They would be a young adult and be introduced slowly as the next generation. I could probably come up with a couple of residual stories off of that if I thought hard enough. If Days did that story and did it justice, Iím sure it would be a hit with J&M fans as well as the general audience. Now, honestly how hard was that. I could give you more ideas too that havenít been done before or add some new twist to an old theme.

Something has to give and soon. Days doesn't have the time or the money to experiment. If something big doesn't happen soon I have the feeling that the end is truly near. For me that all comes down to good writing and storytelling.
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Kyrai


Flying Monkey
Sep 21 2008, 07:44 PM
There are still one or two left undone. How about Marlenaís missing years when everyone thought she was dead. When she came back in í91, RoJohn was more interested in where she had been and what had happened to her than Marlena was. I remember a scene between Alice and Marlena in Shenanigans when Alice said Marlena didnít look to happy about going to San Cristobal to investigate and Marlena told Alice that she didnít want to know. They went down did a little investigating for a day or two, came home and that was that on the subject entirely, except I think for one brief reference when Marlena was playing chess with Stefano and he said something about teaching her to play. I would still like to know exactly where she was and if she was really in a coma or something else entirely. And it could lead to discovering a long lost child that Marlena was just pregnant with when her plane went down. They would be a young adult and be introduced slowly as the next generation. I could probably come up with a couple of residual stories off of that if I thought hard enough. If Days did that story and did it justice, Iím sure it would be a hit with J&M fans as well as the general audience. Now, honestly how hard was that. I could give you more ideas too that havenít been done before or add some new twist to an old theme.

I would dearly LOVE to see a story like this, and I'd love to have another John and Marllena son or daughter. In particular, I've been wanting Phil to get an solid love interest. I loved him with Belle, maybe her sister could knock his socks off. Great idea!
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Flying Monkey
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Kyrai
Sep 21 2008, 09:05 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 21 2008, 07:44 PM
There are still one or two left undone. How about Marlenaís missing years when everyone thought she was dead. When she came back in í91, RoJohn was more interested in where she had been and what had happened to her than Marlena was. I remember a scene between Alice and Marlena in Shenanigans when Alice said Marlena didnít look to happy about going to San Cristobal to investigate and Marlena told Alice that she didnít want to know. They went down did a little investigating for a day or two, came home and that was that on the subject entirely, except I think for one brief reference when Marlena was playing chess with Stefano and he said something about teaching her to play. I would still like to know exactly where she was and if she was really in a coma or something else entirely. And it could lead to discovering a long lost child that Marlena was just pregnant with when her plane went down. They would be a young adult and be introduced slowly as the next generation. I could probably come up with a couple of residual stories off of that if I thought hard enough. If Days did that story and did it justice, Iím sure it would be a hit with J&M fans as well as the general audience. Now, honestly how hard was that. I could give you more ideas too that havenít been done before or add some new twist to an old theme.

I would dearly LOVE to see a story like this, and I'd love to have another John and Marllena son or daughter. In particular, I've been wanting Phil to get an solid love interest. I loved him with Belle, maybe her sister could knock his socks off. Great idea!
I love Philip too and Jay. But J&M already have Belle (I miss Martha's Belle) so I would be kind of hoping for a son, raised by Stefano of course. Once they found out what happened to Marlena during that time and they've discovered the son. He could be manipulated by Stefano and working to break up J&M. They could separate temporarily for his sake and have lots of angst and even trying to sneak away to meet a few times. ;) It could be great drama as the work to build a relationship and undo Stefano's dirty work.
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madelinehawaii


Flying Monkey
Sep 21 2008, 11:16 PM
Kyrai
Sep 21 2008, 09:05 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 21 2008, 07:44 PM
There are still one or two left undone. How about Marlenaís missing years when everyone thought she was dead. When she came back in í91, RoJohn was more interested in where she had been and what had happened to her than Marlena was. I remember a scene between Alice and Marlena in Shenanigans when Alice said Marlena didnít look to happy about going to San Cristobal to investigate and Marlena told Alice that she didnít want to know. They went down did a little investigating for a day or two, came home and that was that on the subject entirely, except I think for one brief reference when Marlena was playing chess with Stefano and he said something about teaching her to play. I would still like to know exactly where she was and if she was really in a coma or something else entirely. And it could lead to discovering a long lost child that Marlena was just pregnant with when her plane went down. They would be a young adult and be introduced slowly as the next generation. I could probably come up with a couple of residual stories off of that if I thought hard enough. If Days did that story and did it justice, Iím sure it would be a hit with J&M fans as well as the general audience. Now, honestly how hard was that. I could give you more ideas too that havenít been done before or add some new twist to an old theme.

I would dearly LOVE to see a story like this, and I'd love to have another John and Marllena son or daughter. In particular, I've been wanting Phil to get an solid love interest. I loved him with Belle, maybe her sister could knock his socks off. Great idea!
I love Philip too and Jay. But J&M already have Belle (I miss Martha's Belle) so I would be kind of hoping for a son, raised by Stefano of course. Once they found out what happened to Marlena during that time and they've discovered the son. He could be manipulated by Stefano and working to break up J&M. They could separate temporarily for his sake and have lots of angst and even trying to sneak away to meet a few times. ;) It could be great drama as the work to build a relationship and undo Stefano's dirty work.
conflict in a story usually works much better, along with hopefully a good dose of suspense if you can't see the obvious solution coming from a thousand miles away
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Kyrai


Flying Monkey
Sep 21 2008, 11:16 PM
Kyrai
Sep 21 2008, 09:05 PM
Flying Monkey
Sep 21 2008, 07:44 PM
There are still one or two left undone. How about Marlenaís missing years when everyone thought she was dead. When she came back in í91, RoJohn was more interested in where she had been and what had happened to her than Marlena was. I remember a scene between Alice and Marlena in Shenanigans when Alice said Marlena didnít look to happy about going to San Cristobal to investigate and Marlena told Alice that she didnít want to know. They went down did a little investigating for a day or two, came home and that was that on the subject entirely, except I think for one brief reference when Marlena was playing chess with Stefano and he said something about teaching her to play. I would still like to know exactly where she was and if she was really in a coma or something else entirely. And it could lead to discovering a long lost child that Marlena was just pregnant with when her plane went down. They would be a young adult and be introduced slowly as the next generation. I could probably come up with a couple of residual stories off of that if I thought hard enough. If Days did that story and did it justice, Iím sure it would be a hit with J&M fans as well as the general audience. Now, honestly how hard was that. I could give you more ideas too that havenít been done before or add some new twist to an old theme.

I would dearly LOVE to see a story like this, and I'd love to have another John and Marllena son or daughter. In particular, I've been wanting Phil to get an solid love interest. I loved him with Belle, maybe her sister could knock his socks off. Great idea!
I love Philip too and Jay. But J&M already have Belle (I miss Martha's Belle) so I would be kind of hoping for a son, raised by Stefano of course. Once they found out what happened to Marlena during that time and they've discovered the son. He could be manipulated by Stefano and working to break up J&M. They could separate temporarily for his sake and have lots of angst and even trying to sneak away to meet a few times. ;) It could be great drama as the work to build a relationship and undo Stefano's dirty work.
Yep, I love this idea too. Lots of angles this could play, with Stefano raising their son or daughter, tons of potential for conflict. J&M against their child. Their child's redemption or downfall or just struggles. Most definitely it could be great drama. :)
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Flying Monkey
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Quote:
 
I'm responding to both Ellie and Flying Monkey in this.

I don't know what to honestly say about what I expect Higley's writing to be. What I was responding to was attractive storylines in general. What I find entertaining. And believe it or not, there is some stuff that Higley does that is promising.


I expect good solid storytelling from Higley, which she is incapable of producing. Iím glad your enjoying her writing, Iím certainly not and from the looks of the ratings most everyone else isn't either.

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And, I wonder if the "marketability" of the so called secondary players just comes from a few fanbases throwing a fit because their favorites aren't in the lead again?


If my J&M banner has lead you to believe they are my only favorites youíd be mistaken. You have noticed that J&M have been heavily featured since the fall of last year right? I wonder if those smaller fan bases are jealous because their favorites arenít everyone elseís favorites too?

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I'll wager you most viewers vote with their viewing time. For the past several years, Days has been so topsy-turvy in KEEPING alternate couples or players on the front lines because of the "massive few" who throw a fit about it. Same old story. You won't find that opinion only here, but on other boards as well.


ďMassive fewĒ, how rich. So when those massive few dare to be disgruntled or state their opinions (while some of their favorites are being featured very prominently in god awful storylines) theyíre just throwing a "fit". (I love how it's a "fit" instead of an opinion) But when the smaller fan bases do it, what do you call it?

Quote:
 
It's a sad, sad show that is all about one character or one couple, except, of course, the sitcoms that are SUPPOSED to center around one star. Soaps shouldn't operate that way.


I only see you and one or two other people suggesting that ďcertain fansĒ believe the show should be all about one character or couple, none of that is coming from those ďcertain fansĒ. I only hear that being made by certain other fanbase, as to their motives I can only guess.

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And to quote the Flying Monkey (interesting moniker) about the whole "it's what the majority wants". WHO the hell knows what the majority wants? How do you measure that? Days hasn't exactly been the prime example of wonderful awesome soap ratings, except for some rare occasions, for a long time.


Yes it is an interesting moniker thatís why I chose it. I think itís a safe bet to guess that when the writers/TIIC changed the formula and the ratings began to fall dramatically and have remained low ever since that the majority of the audience isnít liking what theyíre seeing and tuning out in droves.

Quote:
 
And, again, I find it highly ironic that those who protest the most about "secondary" characters coming to the forefront are those who have strong fanbase alliances. Not that they shouldn't have an opinion. I just find it very coincidental.


What I find really ironic is how certain fan bases think they have the right to challenge someone elseís opinions and or motivations. Who try to call them out personally on their opinions (as if they donít have a right to express their opinion) rather than actually debating the issues and stating their own personal views in contrast.

Quote:
 
Popularity is equated with the loudest? Or is it the fanbases that send the most letters, possibly by the same people over and over?


That is your opinion, I disagree with it. I donít think Days would pay the larger salaries of the actors in question if they didnít believe that they were their main draw. Neither would the magazines repeatedly feature them on the cover even when they have no storyline at all if they didnít know who sells and who doesnít. I highly doubt that only a handful fans rush to the newsstand to buy up all the copies at five bucks a pop.

Quote:
 
Oh, and by the way, if you want to go that route (whoever I'm talking to): Shawn and Mimi, for example, were getting pretty high praise a couple of years ago. SOD covers galore, presentations on the Emmys, letters, fanbase, Campaigns of the Month.............But, I don't think that was regarded because of what is perceived to be Corday's insistence of Shelle forever.


I donít remember covers galore or high praise.

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Right now, based on boards (yes, another inaccurate measurement, but if you get yours, I get mine), Nicole and EJ are getting high kudos. There are people who are anticipating, though, being disappointed because, yes, Days will cave probably to the loudest.


Iím not a fan of Sami and EJ or of Nicole and EJ but I do see much more chemistry in the later pairing mentioned than in then in the first. I don't believe for a second that Days has paid much if any attention to fan mail, email or what is or isn't being said on message boards around the net. Caring what the fans want or think went out the window when Betty Corday retired and Days has been on that downhill slope ever since.


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And, truly, if you look at a lot of the boards and online commentaries (by folks who do write for the magazines, besides the usual suspects), not everyone is enamoured by John and Marlena. I'm willing to bet that many are more enamoured with a good storyline, which is PROBABLY why Days might have trouble attracting new viewers? I'd be willing to bet the farm that if Lexie and Abe had a good storyline, CONSISTENT, with DECENT publicity, and new viewers came in, they wouldn't throw such a fit. Same with Nicole.


Of course everyone isnít enamored by John and Marlena, thatís true with every character and couple on the show obviously. Iíve mentioned to someone else here at DR but maybe you didnít read it so Iíll tell you, simply because you see the J&M banner at the bottom of my posts doesnít mean they are the only characters/couple I like on Days and shouldnít be assumed as so. The fact that most everyone wants the storylines to be good for whoever is a gimme. Do you really think that Days has time to attract new viewers in its current state? With cancellation looming and that NBC only gave the show a year on their last renewal and is way behind in announcing if they will renew again and for how long. If everyone had CONSISTENT and DECENT storylines the entire show would be better off. Iím sorry but I donít buy that if only so and so were in a good story the viewers would flock to watch and so and so would be on top. Do ever wonder why it is that even though stuck in dreadful storyline after dreadful storyline, or having no storyline at all for long periods of time that certain so and soís stay on top? Or that certain other characters have been featured in the past and failed to create a buzz. Oh right, itís only a handful of fans writing thousands of letters.

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Oh, and by the way, Marlena started out as a supporting character, too. Remember Mickey's shrink when he thought he was Marty? No, you probably don't.


The ďNo, you probably donítĒ made me chuckle, and you know this how? Yes, I do know that Marlena was brought in as Mickeyís therapist as a supporting player, primarily because I WATCHED IT when it aired. Did you? And did you know that the role wasnít necessarily permanent? Did you also know that even before that storyline had played out the character of Marlena was fast becoming a lead character? Ted Corday saw it right away and said so in the press. You do remember when and why Mickey was put in Bayview right? Apparently not. If so then you would know he wasnít Marty Hanson then, heíd already regained his memory and was there for an entirely different reason.

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OK, my rant is over. It's very obvious I disagree. I think, though, Days has nothing to lose by trying these folks in a good storyline. Maybe, for once, it's time they catered to the GENERAL fans whose lives don't depend on certain people getting frontburnered?


I completely disagree. Days has already tried ďthese folksĒ in stories and more than once. GENERAL fans whose lives don't depend on certain people getting frontburnered? So you honestly think that ďcertain fansĒ lives depend on whoís frontburnered or not? LOL

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yes, I'm bitchy. I'll admit it. I'm tired of people thinking certain characters aren't worthy based on the supposed rights to entitlement of Salem. It's been a while since Abe and Lexie have had a decent storyline. Would life come to a crashing halt if they got a nice B storyline to themselves for once?


I find it odd that you donít seem to have the same problem when it comes to people thinking that just because Abe and Lexie or whoever has been on Days X number of years that it automatically entitles them to be in a frontburner storyline. Itís been a while since anyone has had a decent story on Days period. Iím not sure why you seem to think that anyoneís life is depends on or would come to a crashing halt because of a soap or itís characters, that just seems a bit absurd to me.
Edited by Flying Monkey, Sep 23 2008, 04:37 PM.
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