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DAYS: Weekly Discussion; For the week of September 22, 2008
Topic Started: Sep 22 2008, 02:11 PM (9,011 Views)
Kyrai


Alligato
Sep 27 2008, 10:11 AM

Also wanted to add that I HATED Chelsea on Friday. She was flirting with Nick, acting all jealous, but still finds the need to NOT forgive Kate after all this time? Do I really think she is still in love with Dan? Do I think she ever was in love with Dan? Hell no! This is a side of Chelsea I hate...but this is supposed to be who she always was?
I'm having a hard time with Chelsea these days. I don't think she wants Nick so much as she hates losing her fallback guy, but I'm not sure. It could just be she's so heartbroken over Dan that she's needing someone. I know I don't care for her like this at all. I'm hoping this is just a temporary phase while the writers decide where to take her. I'm not sure if I want her to get together with Nick again or not. I liked Melanie at first with all the France and Claude stuff, farfetched as it was, but she's un-growing on me. I'd really like them to take all the young couples, add a few new people, and give them stories to interact, kinda start fresh to see what's there. Then pursue relationships, scrap what doesn't fit. I don't mind if they make her a self-centered type of character again. She fits the selfish scheming type a bit more than the saintly type to me, but right now I'm not enjoying her scenes because of the mixed signals. I do think RM is a good actress. She just needs a bit of direction with the story.
Edited by Kyrai, Sep 27 2008, 10:57 AM.
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Fuzzy


A couple of points about the rest of show.

I think that Daniel and Kate still have chemistry, but, to me, Daniel and either one of them is just icky at this point. I am happy that they brought up Billie/Nick, and I am looking forward to Chelsea finding out about Kate's illness. It's the first time I've actually been interested in the storyline.

I'm also hoping that Hope will change her mind about commisioner job. Not to be mean, but I keep wondering if between this and Lexie vacating the chief of staff position, if someone's making a point about Dena.

I really enjoyed the graveyard scenes with Caroline. It was an honest emotional moment, one we have too few of on this show.

I'm not invested in Patch and Kayla, but I enjoyed their scenes with Bope. I also think that Kayla makes much more sense as Cheif of Staff than Lexie ever did.

All in all, I think that the show's on an upswing, although it may be too early to tell. I have no inside information, but based on what I'm seeing, I tend to think that Dena's been demoted. The show just didn't have her "feel."
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Kyrai


luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 10:33 AM
Kyrai
Sep 27 2008, 09:36 AM
Why bother watching a soap if you're not invested in the stories and aren't going to root for what you want?

i'm invested in the stories, i just don't get behind couples because i ALWAYS pick the wrong one. shawn/mimi, brady/nicole, sami/brandon, and the list goes on. yes, i like ej and nicole, and i will defend nicole to the death, but i'm wary about getting behind couples or even characters because it's always a huge disappointment for me. however, that doesn't make the show any less enjoyable for me.
I hope I didn't come across as meaning investing as wanting to argue over them. I meant it more in the sense of caring about them wanting to discuss the story.

I'm most definitely a lousy couple picker. Ive lost most couple battles over the years, and several characters didn't go my way either (Tony was forever messing me up). But I still enjoyed discussing scenes and such, still do. I tend to think of couples as transitory anyway. If I lose today, maybe someday it will come back or if I win, they'll eventually break them up. So long as the writers make me feel it, I'm generally fine. Heck, I went from rooting for Carrie/Austin vigorously (Sami could not be deceitful and win!) to desperately wanting Carrie and Mike to get together. I loved both of those characters so much. But Austin won, Carrie became hateful and unappealing, and they shipped them off. I really thought Shimi and Phelle were great couples too. Shawn wasn't wimpy and unappealing with Mimi like I felt he was with Belle. I really enjoyed them together. Phillip and Belle had great chemistry to me. I still wish they'd find a way to bring her back and put her with Phil. But no, I lost my two couples for one Shelle. Incredibly disappointing, but I still loved the discussions I had over all that, and still like discussing them even if it's bittersweet might have been discussion now.

Aside from J&M, I've rarely ever backed a winner, and that hasn't been a picnic over the years. Jack and Jennifer is the only other one I can think of that I 'won', and of course, then they sent them off too. At one time, I actually prefered Billie with Bo, and I briefly rooted for Patrick with Hope. I'm glad I lost that because I do love Bo and Hope together now.

Sorry I keep rambling.

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luvpumpkns
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Fuzzy
Sep 27 2008, 10:44 AM
That said, if I actually saw Nicole taking responsability for her actions, I might start to like her. I haven't seen any such thing.

when does anyone ever accept responsibility for their actions on this show? true remore isn't regretting the consequences of what you did, it's regretting the motive. i've yet to see one 'bad' character EVER regret their motives for doing things. so i still don't get your reasoning for hating nicole when you like sami. for me, they are two peas in a pod.
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luvpumpkns
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Kyrai
Sep 27 2008, 11:22 AM
luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 10:33 AM
Kyrai
Sep 27 2008, 09:36 AM
Why bother watching a soap if you're not invested in the stories and aren't going to root for what you want?

i'm invested in the stories, i just don't get behind couples because i ALWAYS pick the wrong one. shawn/mimi, brady/nicole, sami/brandon, and the list goes on. yes, i like ej and nicole, and i will defend nicole to the death, but i'm wary about getting behind couples or even characters because it's always a huge disappointment for me. however, that doesn't make the show any less enjoyable for me.
I hope I didn't come across as meaning investing as wanting to argue over them. I meant it more in the sense of caring about them wanting to discuss the story.

I'm most definitely a lousy couple picker. Ive lost most couple battles over the years, and several characters didn't go my way either (Tony was forever messing me up). But I still enjoyed discussing scenes and such, still do. I tend to think of couples as transitory anyway. If I lose today, maybe someday it will come back or if I win, they'll eventually break them up. So long as the writers make me feel it, I'm generally fine. Heck, I went from rooting for Carrie/Austin vigorously (Sami could not be deceitful and win!) to desperately wanting Carrie and Mike to get together. I loved both of those characters so much. But Austin won, Carrie became hateful and unappealing, and they shipped them off. I really thought Shimi and Phelle were great couples too. Shawn wasn't wimpy and unappealing with Mimi like I felt he was with Belle. I really enjoyed them together. Phillip and Belle had great chemistry to me. I still wish they'd find a way to bring her back and put her with Phil. But no, I lost my two couples for one Shelle. Incredibly disappointing, but I still loved the discussions I had over all that, and still like discussing them even if it's bittersweet might have been discussion now.

Aside from J&M, I've rarely ever backed a winner, and that hasn't been a picnic over the years. Jack and Jennifer is the only other one I can think of that I 'won', and of course, then they sent them off too. At one time, I actually prefered Billie with Bo, and I briefly rooted for Patrick with Hope. I'm glad I lost that because I do love Bo and Hope together now.

Sorry I keep rambling.

oh, i see what you mean. we actually liked a lot of the same couples. i'm a big jack/jen fan, and i hated the way they ended their run last time. i know just what you mean by backing a losing horse...i actually kind of liked john and ava together--not permanently, but i always like seeing supercouple members thrown in with different people every once in a while.
Edited by luvpumpkns, Sep 27 2008, 11:28 AM.
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mesagirl
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Fuzzy
Sep 26 2008, 07:23 PM
mesagirl
Sep 26 2008, 05:16 PM
Well she either used sex as a bargaining tool with EJ on 12/29, or she was raped. A lot of people think she did use sex as a bargaining tool that night. And regardless, she certainly had no feelings for EJ that night other than pure hatred. I am not convinced she had feelings for EJ when she slept with him in May either. Afterall, when Lucas showed up at the mansion, she flew naked out of bed, without so much as a backward glance or thought towards EJ, whom she had just finished doing the nasty with, as she ran off to chase after Lucas. To me, all that was, was rebound sex.

Lucas has had one g/f since he finally wisened up and dumped Sami.... one g/f is not what one would call revolving. I think Chloe is pretty harmless compared to whom Sami leaves in charge of the twins... Stefano. I don't think Sami makes the wisest choices at all when it comes to her children. She's a pretty dim bulb if you ask me. ;)
About 12/29, even if it wasn't rape, and I think it's a grey area, I don't think that it makes Sami a slut. First of all, it was EJ's suggestion, and b)Lucas's life was at stake. She wasn't doing it for money. She was doing it becuase she thought it was the only way to save his life. I see a big difference there. And about the May sex--she definately has feelings for EJ. She admitted as much to Lucas and to EJ. If it were rebound sex, it would have happened a lot sooner. When Lucas showed up, she panicked. I think she's in denial about her feelings for EJ. That said, I wasn't crazy about the writing there either.

One girlfriend may not be revolving. But they've only been split up for four months. And Lucas spent at least one of those in jail. Lucas has a history of short relationships. There's no way he can know if he and Chloe are going to work out yet or not. But he already has her front and center in Allie's life even though Chloe doesn't appear interested.

But I agree about leaving the kids with Stephano.
I am not calling Sami a slut at all. I was just pointing out the fact that Sami has indeed had sex with someone she doesn't really care about.

As for revolving, Sami had sex with two men in one night, within hours of each other (since there are plenty of viewers on other boards *cough NBC* *cough* who still maintain that Sami wanted to have sex with EJ that night, I feel that's a fair thing to include) , and she has maintained a revolving door with both Lucas and EJ ever since. Heck if Lucas hadn't finally realized he is better off without Sami, she'd still be playing the two men. I also suspect that if Lucas came knocking on her door again, she wouldn't turn him away.

As for the rebound sex... I don't understand the comment about if it were rebound, the sex would have happened sooner. She was boinking EJ within hours of Lucas writing her that email telling her it was over. Seemed pretty darn fast to me ;)

I don't like Lucas and Chloe as a couple at all for the record. The relationship was too quick and made no sense. We haven't even really seen why the two of them were attracted to one another, or what they have in common. Bad writing all around there.
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Kyrai


luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 11:27 AM
oh, i see what you mean. we actually liked a lot of the same couples. i'm a big jack/jen fan, and i hated the way they ended their run last time. i know just what you mean by backing a losing horse...i actually kind of liked john and ava together--not permanently, but i always like seeing supercouple members thrown in with different people every once in a while.
Exactly! I love J&M together, but if it makes sense, I can buy them with others. I never went for Marlena and Roman on that island, but I totally bought Kate and John. I found them interesting together in a different way than J&M. Loved the hot pepper eating type of scenes. It was nice to see a completely different relationship. I was glad for Marlena to come back, but I still wish John and Kate had remained close friends..

Ava's a gray area because I felt like they made Marlena un-Marlena-like to make me see John and Ava together. I loved how Ava empathized and understood John, treated him like he mattered. I remember the first time they met, he seemed so sad and lonely, and she understood him. I rooted for them to become friends. I never felt like it was 'true love', but I understood them reaching out to each other. I knew their time was limited, but I'd have had no trouble with them lasting longer. It could have set up a better backdrop for John and Marlena truly separating, but then down the road coming back into each other's orbit with them both growing to love each other in a new way. A fresh new love story. Unfortunately, the story never really played out well for me. It seemed like it changed direction mid-stream. I personally had a very difficult time with most of the stories this summer. None seemed to have any real direction, except the ones I really hated (Dansea, Stax). Just my opinion.
Edited by Kyrai, Sep 27 2008, 11:48 AM.
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mesagirl
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I think I've been watching Days for too long :D Friday's show was good and bad for me. I think it was pretty obvious as to who the main suspects are regarding Trent's death, before they showed them all with bruised knuckles and bloody shirts. Just typical Days to me I guess.

Nicole... isn't anyone (including her) starting to wonder why she pukes all the time? Food poisoning doesn't last for days on end ;)

Chelsea is driving me crazy OMG. She is so self righteous it's ridiculous. Considering all that she has done in her short life... accidentally killing her little brother, not accidentally plotting to keep Bo and Hope apart, treating Nick like poo over and over again, basically cheating on Nick by flirting with (insert name of new hunk in town here). She really has no room to point fingers. I was thrilled when Kate finally mentioned the Nick/Billie issue. Chelsea needs to grow up for goodness sake. She wasn't interested in Nick when Billie and Nick did the nasty, yet she acted all butt hurt. Dan told Chelsea (and anyone else that would listen) numerous times that he wasn't interested in her when he did the nasty with Kate. I can see Chelsea being upset with Kate because Kate knew she had a crush on Daniel, but her reaction is childish and way over the top.

Nick and Melanie - I really like these two together. Mel continues to grow on me with each scene she's in. She annoyed me to no end at the very beginning, but I like her now.

Max and Steph - I FF'd through the Uncle/Niece sex show. Maybe I'm pregnant too, because I wanted to throw up while that part of the show was on lol. I can only watch them when they are standing at least two feet apart from one another and they are both fully clothed.

Chloe - did anyone else pick up on the little scene where she covered her mouth like she was going to puke, as she was sitting down at the table? Are they really going to have three pregnant women on the show at the same time?

Overall an ok week for me. I thought some of the show was horribly boring, but there were some really good bright spots this week as well.
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Fuzzy


luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 11:25 AM
Fuzzy
Sep 27 2008, 10:44 AM
That said, if I actually saw Nicole taking responsability for her actions, I might start to like her. I haven't seen any such thing.

when does anyone ever accept responsibility for their actions on this show? true remore isn't regretting the consequences of what you did, it's regretting the motive. i've yet to see one 'bad' character EVER regret their motives for doing things. so i still don't get your reasoning for hating nicole when you like sami. for me, they are two peas in a pod.
Well, since you asked...

For me it's about motive. Sami wants a family, and for someone to love her. She's been second choice to every man she's ever been with. Austin and Lucas preferred Carrie. I wasn't watching during the Alan Harris rapestoryline, but from what I've heard, even he wanted Carrie! Brandon may have loved her in the beginning, but by the time they got together, he preferred Lexie. So, she has reason to be insecure. Also, while Sami has her faults, I have always felt that she genuinely loved her family. She's a good sister to Belle. She's made mistakes with Will, but I never felt that she didn't love him. And, while her devotion to her father is a bit much, at least she cares about someone other than herself.

Nicole, on the other hand, is all about the money. She's had plenty of chances at love. Eric, Lucas, and Victor all loved her. And she trashed all three of them. The only one she actually cared about was Eric, but that didn't keep her from hurting him on a regular basis. She wouldn't let him move on with his life with Greta. Even though she was married to Lucas at the time. She also cares about Brandon, but breaking up your brother's relationship with the woman he loves is not my idea of of being a good sister. And, she was horrible to Taylor and Faith. I also have trouble with the way she treated Will. It takes a really hard hearted woman to behave that badly towards a child. And Will was very young, and IMHO not at all bratty at the time.

Also, Sami has never tried to kill anyone. She chickened out at the cabin with EJ even though he'd threatened to kill people she cared about. Nicole, on the other hand, has planned out and executed quite a few murder attempts including Marlena's.

Finally, Sami pays for her crimes. She spent a year on death row for a crime she didn't commit. She actually got the lethal injection before she was pardoned. And every time her schemes come out, she's completely humiliated, her family and her son turn against her, and she loses the guy in question. She also generally loses whatever job she managed to land at the time. And, even between her schemes, she's usually running scared. Nicole, on the other hand, for most of her time on screen, has had access to Victor's money. First with Lucas, and then with Victor. Which is what she cares about the most.
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Nicole Walker


Nicole suffered during her marriage to Victor. He tortured her and she did bring some of it on herself. Nicole's punishment was not finding happiness and I think this time around she may get it. Time for things to change and that's what I think they are going with her story this time around which is why she's developing new relationships and saying she just wants to get it right this time around. I hope she does.
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Fuzzy


mesagirl
Sep 27 2008, 11:40 AM
I am not calling Sami a slut at all. I was just pointing out the fact that Sami has indeed had sex with someone she doesn't really care about.

As for revolving, Sami had sex with two men in one night, within hours of each other (since there are plenty of viewers on other boards *cough NBC* *cough* who still maintain that Sami wanted to have sex with EJ that night, I feel that's a fair thing to include) , and she has maintained a revolving door with both Lucas and EJ ever since. Heck if Lucas hadn't finally realized he is better off without Sami, she'd still be playing the two men. I also suspect that if Lucas came knocking on her door again, she wouldn't turn him away.

As for the rebound sex... I don't understand the comment about if it were rebound, the sex would have happened sooner. She was boinking EJ within hours of Lucas writing her that email telling her it was over. Seemed pretty darn fast to me ;)

I don't like Lucas and Chloe as a couple at all for the record. The relationship was too quick and made no sense. We haven't even really seen why the two of them were attracted to one another, or what they have in common. Bad writing all around there.
Well, I guess it all comes down to perspective. To me, Sami definately did not want to have sex with EJ that night. Although the viewers who say she did, probably also think she cared about him at the time.

I also don't think she wanted to maintain a revolving door with Lucas and EJ. To me, at least, it was always clear that she wanted to be with Lucas. But felt forced by EJ and Stephano to be with EJ at times. I do think she had feelings for EJ that she didn't want to acknowledge even then, but she never acted on them voluntarily. At least, not until after Lucas was sent away to prison. But, again, that's also a matter of perspective.

I actually forgot about the letter. But I really don't think it was rebound sex. Or she wouldn't have told Lucas that she had feelings for EJ. And even if it was, it wasn't like Nicole's habit of trading sex for money. Regardless, it was out of character for her to have sex that fast and before she was ready to admit how she feels about EJ.

And I definately agree about Lucas and Chloe. I'm not opposed to them as a couple on principle, but the writing was atrocious and killed any possibility of me liking them.
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luvpumpkns
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Fuzzy
Sep 27 2008, 12:20 PM
luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 11:25 AM
Fuzzy
Sep 27 2008, 10:44 AM
That said, if I actually saw Nicole taking responsability for her actions, I might start to like her. I haven't seen any such thing.

when does anyone ever accept responsibility for their actions on this show? true remore isn't regretting the consequences of what you did, it's regretting the motive. i've yet to see one 'bad' character EVER regret their motives for doing things. so i still don't get your reasoning for hating nicole when you like sami. for me, they are two peas in a pod.
Well, since you asked...

For me it's about motive. Sami wants a family, and for someone to love her. She's been second choice to every man she's ever been with. Austin and Lucas preferred Carrie. I wasn't watching during the Alan Harris rapestoryline, but from what I've heard, even he wanted Carrie! Brandon may have loved her in the beginning, but by the time they got together, he preferred Lexie. So, she has reason to be insecure. Also, while Sami has her faults, I have always felt that she genuinely loved her family. She's a good sister to Belle. She's made mistakes with Will, but I never felt that she didn't love him. And, while her devotion to her father is a bit much, at least she cares about someone other than herself.

Nicole, on the other hand, is all about the money. She's had plenty of chances at love. Eric, Lucas, and Victor all loved her. And she trashed all three of them. The only one she actually cared about was Eric, but that didn't keep her from hurting him on a regular basis. She wouldn't let him move on with his life with Greta. Even though she was married to Lucas at the time. She also cares about Brandon, but breaking up your brother's relationship with the woman he loves is not my idea of of being a good sister. And, she was horrible to Taylor and Faith. I also have trouble with the way she treated Will. It takes a really hard hearted woman to behave that badly towards a child. And Will was very young, and IMHO not at all bratty at the time.

Also, Sami has never tried to kill anyone. She chickened out at the cabin with EJ even though he'd threatened to kill people she cared about. Nicole, on the other hand, has planned out and executed quite a few murder attempts including Marlena's.

Finally, Sami pays for her crimes. She spent a year on death row for a crime she didn't commit. She actually got the lethal injection before she was pardoned. And every time her schemes come out, she's completely humiliated, her family and her son turn against her, and she loses the guy in question. She also generally loses whatever job she managed to land at the time. And, even between her schemes, she's usually running scared. Nicole, on the other hand, for most of her time on screen, has had access to Victor's money. First with Lucas, and then with Victor. Which is what she cares about the most.
sami kidnapped belle and tried to sell her off as a baby. she also knew about claire's paternity secret. she kept that from belle with the hopes of blackmailing mimi. i wouldn't consider either of those things very sisterly, and let's not even get started on what she's done to carrie.

like sami, nicole also loses men through her scheming. brady, anyone? victor abused her and tried to have her killed, too, so it's not as if he was some innocent victim here.

i also disagree that sami pays for her crimes. what ends up happening is that she's humiliated, and then directly afterwards, one of the guys she hurt in the past (austin, brandon, or lucas) is right there to pick up the pieces and comfort her, telling her that she's not that bad of a person. after the brady debacle, nicole left town. i don't remember sami ever having to do that.

at the end of the day, sami's motives may about her always being second best, but you know what? that is her own fault because she usually goes after guys that are in love with someone else.

anyway, i don't want to bash sami so much, because i do truly think she and nicole are a lot alike. nicole's motives may all be about money, but they're really the same thing--security. nicole wants money, sami needs a man. that to me, is just about wanting security, but wanting it in different ways. i just personally happen to feel that nicole's upbringing explains why she craves security, whereas sami's doesn't--or not nearly as much.
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Fuzzy


Nicole Dimera
Sep 27 2008, 12:25 PM
Nicole suffered during her marriage to Victor. He tortured her and she did bring some of it on herself. Nicole's punishment was not finding happiness and I think this time around she may get it. Time for things to change and that's what I think they are going with her story this time around which is why she's developing new relationships and saying she just wants to get it right this time around. I hope she does.
I agree that Nicole got some payback from Victor. I just don't think she's paid anywhere near as much as Sami has, and for worse crimes.
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six
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luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 10:33 AM
Kyrai
Sep 27 2008, 09:36 AM
Why bother watching a soap if you're not invested in the stories and aren't going to root for what you want?

i'm invested in the stories, i just don't get behind couples because i ALWAYS pick the wrong one. shawn/mimi, brady/nicole, sami/brandon, and the list goes on. yes, i like ej and nicole, and i will defend nicole to the death, but i'm wary about getting behind couples or even characters because it's always a huge disappointment for me. however, that doesn't make the show any less enjoyable for me.
I've picked a lot of losers too (Carrie and Mike, Belle and Philip, Sami and Brandon, Max and Mimi...the list goes on), but when I see that spark between two characters, I just want to see more. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't ruin the show for me. I'm a big ejami fan, but if the show goes with ejole, some how, some way, I'll pick up the shattered pieces of my life and move on. :lol: I've been watching more than half my life, and am a fan of the show first. It's not like most fanbase members are going to send hate mail or need mental care if Days breaks up their favorite couple. Not that you're saying that, but I get that vibe from this place sometimes. I also loved John and Marlena, but don't mind that they're not together right now, and didn't mind Ava, mostly because I wasn't happy with the way Marlena was treating John.

I've been ff ing the stax sex too. They're pretty boring and the family thing doesn't help.

I still don't care for Melanie, though what she said about Mickey and Maggie was hilarious. Speaking of Mickey and Maggie, I hope this is the last we need to hear about their quest to go green.

I still think the very idea of Bo taking Abe's job is ridiculous.

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six
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luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 12:34 PM
she also knew about claire's paternity secret. she kept that from belle with the hopes of blackmailing mimi. i wouldn't consider either of those things very sisterly, and let's not even get started on what she's done to carrie.
Why would she be blackmailing Mimi? I don't remember Sami being involved in that story.

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luvpumpkns
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six
Sep 27 2008, 12:47 PM
luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 12:34 PM
she also knew about claire's paternity secret. she kept that from belle with the hopes of blackmailing mimi. i wouldn't consider either of those things very sisterly, and let's not even get started on what she's done to carrie.
Why would she be blackmailing Mimi? I don't remember Sami being involved in that story.

it was dropped and the truth came out before sami had the chance. mimi was talking to herself or maybe bonnie up on the roof about it. sami had come to see belle, who wasn't at home. she heard voices on the roof, and listened in as mimi told herself or whoever about claire being shawn's. sami thought to herself that she could somehow use that against mimi, but i can't remember what sami's s/l was at the time, or what she could get mimi to do for her. who knows? the point is that she knew about it, and never said a word to belle or anyone else.
Edited by luvpumpkns, Sep 27 2008, 12:57 PM.
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Fuzzy


luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 12:34 PM
Fuzzy
Sep 27 2008, 12:20 PM
luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 11:25 AM
Fuzzy
Sep 27 2008, 10:44 AM
That said, if I actually saw Nicole taking responsability for her actions, I might start to like her. I haven't seen any such thing.

when does anyone ever accept responsibility for their actions on this show? true remore isn't regretting the consequences of what you did, it's regretting the motive. i've yet to see one 'bad' character EVER regret their motives for doing things. so i still don't get your reasoning for hating nicole when you like sami. for me, they are two peas in a pod.
Well, since you asked...

For me it's about motive. Sami wants a family, and for someone to love her. She's been second choice to every man she's ever been with. Austin and Lucas preferred Carrie. I wasn't watching during the Alan Harris rapestoryline, but from what I've heard, even he wanted Carrie! Brandon may have loved her in the beginning, but by the time they got together, he preferred Lexie. So, she has reason to be insecure. Also, while Sami has her faults, I have always felt that she genuinely loved her family. She's a good sister to Belle. She's made mistakes with Will, but I never felt that she didn't love him. And, while her devotion to her father is a bit much, at least she cares about someone other than herself.

Nicole, on the other hand, is all about the money. She's had plenty of chances at love. Eric, Lucas, and Victor all loved her. And she trashed all three of them. The only one she actually cared about was Eric, but that didn't keep her from hurting him on a regular basis. She wouldn't let him move on with his life with Greta. Even though she was married to Lucas at the time. She also cares about Brandon, but breaking up your brother's relationship with the woman he loves is not my idea of of being a good sister. And, she was horrible to Taylor and Faith. I also have trouble with the way she treated Will. It takes a really hard hearted woman to behave that badly towards a child. And Will was very young, and IMHO not at all bratty at the time.

Also, Sami has never tried to kill anyone. She chickened out at the cabin with EJ even though he'd threatened to kill people she cared about. Nicole, on the other hand, has planned out and executed quite a few murder attempts including Marlena's.

Finally, Sami pays for her crimes. She spent a year on death row for a crime she didn't commit. She actually got the lethal injection before she was pardoned. And every time her schemes come out, she's completely humiliated, her family and her son turn against her, and she loses the guy in question. She also generally loses whatever job she managed to land at the time. And, even between her schemes, she's usually running scared. Nicole, on the other hand, for most of her time on screen, has had access to Victor's money. First with Lucas, and then with Victor. Which is what she cares about the most.
sami kidnapped belle and tried to sell her off as a baby. she also knew about claire's paternity secret. she kept that from belle with the hopes of blackmailing mimi. i wouldn't consider either of those things very sisterly, and let's not even get started on what she's done to carrie.

like sami, nicole also loses men through her scheming. brady, anyone? victor abused her and tried to have her killed, too, so it's not as if he was some innocent victim here.

i also disagree that sami pays for her crimes. what ends up happening is that she's humiliated, and then directly afterwards, one of the guys she hurt in the past (austin, brandon, or lucas) is right there to pick up the pieces and comfort her, telling her that she's not that bad of a person. after the brady debacle, nicole left town. i don't remember sami ever having to do that.

at the end of the day, sami's motives may about her always being second best, but you know what? that is her own fault because she usually goes after guys that are in love with someone else.

anyway, i don't want to bash sami so much, because i do truly think she and nicole are a lot alike. nicole's motives may all be about money, but they're really the same thing--security. nicole wants money, sami needs a man. that to me, is just about wanting security, but wanting it in different ways. i just personally happen to feel that nicole's upbringing explains why she craves security, whereas sami's doesn't--or not nearly as much.
I didn't start watching until right before the truth came out about Will's paternity, so I missed most of Sami's worst crimes. Regardless, the worst things that Sami did was when she was a teenager. Nicole's crimes are a lot more recent. Aside from the Stan stuff. And she shouldn't have kept the Claire secret from Belle. I didn't know that she did.

Brady was never Nicole's to lose. If she hadn't infected those tools, Brady would have left her for Chloe anyway. And she didn't leave town right after he dumped her. First she got involved with Austin again, and worked with Sami and Austin on building Austin's company.

I disagree that some man always comes along to comfort Sami right after the reveal. After Las Vegas, she and Brandon didn't get together right away. And after Brandon left, Sami fell through a window, and lost her voice. She and Lucas didn't get together for months after that. And she had to fight both Nicole, and Carrie for Austin. It seems to me that she spends the bulk of her time running scared and trying to prove herself to people.

And, other than Austin, Sami hasn't deliberately picked a man who's in love with someone else. Brandon proclaiimed his undying love for her for months. He didn't start to want Lexie until after Brami's rooftop scene. When Lumi got together, Sami had no reason to think that Lucas still had a thing for Carrie. Carrie had been out of town for years. And Lucas had married and divorced Nicole in the meantime.

I do think that Nicole and Sami are a lot alike. Sami is most definately not perfect. And I'm sure part of the reason Nicole wants money is security, although she also likes expensive clothes, and expensive booze. But the differences between them are enough to make me a fan of one, and not the other. I guess it all comes down to perspective.
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luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 12:56 PM
six
Sep 27 2008, 12:47 PM
luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 12:34 PM
she also knew about claire's paternity secret. she kept that from belle with the hopes of blackmailing mimi. i wouldn't consider either of those things very sisterly, and let's not even get started on what she's done to carrie.
Why would she be blackmailing Mimi? I don't remember Sami being involved in that story.

it was dropped and the truth came out before sami had the chance. mimi was talking to herself or maybe bonnie up on the roof about it. sami had come to see belle, who wasn't at home. she heard voices on the roof, and listened in as mimi told herself or whoever about claire being shawn's. sami thought to herself that she could somehow use that against mimi, but i can't remember what sami's s/l was at the time, or what she could get mimi to do for her. who knows? the point is that she knew about it, and never said a word to belle or anyone else.
Oh okay. Yes, I got your point and agree that it was a terrible thing to hold from her sister and cousin. I was asking for more info in hopes of refreshing my memory.
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ilovemydays


Fuzzy
Sep 27 2008, 12:36 PM
Nicole Dimera
Sep 27 2008, 12:25 PM
Nicole suffered during her marriage to Victor. He tortured her and she did bring some of it on herself. Nicole's punishment was not finding happiness and I think this time around she may get it. Time for things to change and that's what I think they are going with her story this time around which is why she's developing new relationships and saying she just wants to get it right this time around. I hope she does.
I agree that Nicole got some payback from Victor. I just don't think she's paid anywhere near as much as Sami has, and for worse crimes.


The way I see it Nicole paid in ADVANCE.

The reason I consider her forced 'child' porn and physical abuse as relevant is because it dictated how she behaved and treated herself once she was an adult
I would guess that Nicole is nearly a classic example of an incest survivor. The drinking, the low self-esteem even the way she prostituted herself in her marriages to Lucas and Victor. I'm not saying that it excuses her actions but it explains it in an all too realistic way.

What was Sami's excuse for keeping mum about Lexie's sketch breast cancer results? Oh yeah...she wanted to keep blackmailing Lexie so she could keep Austin. Why did she want Austin? Because her sisters always got the better toys.
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ladyofthelake
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luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 12:56 PM
six
Sep 27 2008, 12:47 PM
luvpumpkns
Sep 27 2008, 12:34 PM
she also knew about claire's paternity secret. she kept that from belle with the hopes of blackmailing mimi. i wouldn't consider either of those things very sisterly, and let's not even get started on what she's done to carrie.
Why would she be blackmailing Mimi? I don't remember Sami being involved in that story.

it was dropped and the truth came out before sami had the chance. mimi was talking to herself or maybe bonnie up on the roof about it. sami had come to see belle, who wasn't at home. she heard voices on the roof, and listened in as mimi told herself or whoever about claire being shawn's. sami thought to herself that she could somehow use that against mimi, but i can't remember what sami's s/l was at the time, or what she could get mimi to do for her. who knows? the point is that she knew about it, and never said a word to belle or anyone else.
Actually, what happened was this: Mimi was babysitting Claire and she and Bonnie were talking. Now, I can't remember whose loft they were in, but for some reason, there was a baby monitor with Mimi, and a baby monitor in another room. Mimi was talking to her mom about Claire being Shawn's, and Shawn was in the room with the other baby monitor and heard it. Actually, I think each monitor was in one of the apartments.
And that's all I've got to say about that because I'm not even going to get into that damn Shimi/Shelle debate again, except to say.....Mimi HAD opportunities, and of course, Reilly made it so that she got interrupted or Shawn said "Whatever you had to say, it doesn't matter", or Belle had to be a bitch and get nasty to Mimi......................
But it's over, and Shawn and Belle are sailing the ocean blue, so who cares? :D
Edited by ladyofthelake, Sep 27 2008, 01:27 PM.
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