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DAYS: Weekly Discussion; For the week of September 22, 2008
Topic Started: Sep 22 2008, 02:11 PM (8,917 Views)
Ellie


jane1978
Sep 23 2008, 04:46 PM
Itīs clear Marlena is still in love with John
That was clear to me through Deidre's acting but not through the writing whatsoever. How did you see that in the writing for today's show?

And as for the rest of the story, the upcoming crisis situation does sound like a potentially good J&M story. My complaint is with how Marlena has been written and was written today.
Edited by Ellie, Sep 23 2008, 04:52 PM.
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Kyrai


Ellie
Sep 23 2008, 04:11 PM
I think my headache is bigger than John Black's right now. You know what the writing for Marlena today reminded me of? The writing for her when she had amnesia. Then, she didn't want to give John the time of day, and her family and friends were all trying to convince her to give him another chance. Except there, she had a reason to be written like an idiot!! Dena seems to take delight in destroying the J&M relationship to such an extent that a complete outsider (Anna, who has been out of Salem for 20 years) has to be the one to tell a clueless Marlena how special her marriage was. To Deidre's credit, she did play it teary-eyed, as though her mouth were saying one thing but her mind were telling her another.

I did like the John/Stefano scenes very much. (I hope Joe's ok... he kept sitting down). The dynamic between these two characters is very complex, and I think the dialogue tapped into that very well.

The police commissioner scenes - I thought it was silly to do the "Newsflash" format like that (I mean, this is not an international crisis, this is the Salem police department). But overall, I think the scenes worked well, and I liked the back-and-forth between all characters involved. The going from the police station to Abe and Lexie's house worked well. On another note, I can't remember the name of the person who plays the mayor, but I'm not impressed with his acting at all. His expressions seem very flat and he looks down a lot.

I am looking foward to tomorrow's Marlena/Stefano scenes, but I really wish today's show had been written differently.
I absolutely loved/hated today's Marlena/Anna scenes. I loved Anna. She's wonderful as always, and I felt like she was talking for me. But I just cannot believe the trashing of Marlena. I've always loved her, but she was incredibly unlikeable and totally unbelievable. I can only assume Higley wants this for some reason, but I just don't get it. It really makes me downright sick. If I'm going to have to stomach a Marlena that I don't like just to have J&M, I'd just as soon get it over. I hate them ruining what has been a very special couple for me, but it's just not worth fighting the writers anymore. I don't want them like this. Just put John with someone the writers don't hate already. I'd like John in a real romance, assuming they don't kill him off, which also wouldn't surprise me. Maybe if the writers are happy at completely trashing J&M they'll make Marlena likeable again too eventually....

I found the way Abe picked Hope as his successor weak also. He takes his time asking Roman and Bo, then trying to convince Bo, then just picks Hope like an afterthought, as if he hadn't really considered her a candidate until desperate. Plus, I kinda hate Bo being his second choice for the reasons Bo listed to Abe. Seems like Hope would have been second choice, not third. I like Hope as commissioner, and this wasn't a big deal (like the awful Marlena scenes were), but this just seemed odd to me.

For some reason, I don't like Max as Mad Max. Reminds me of how he acted when he had that secret. Liked Nick though, and Melanie has grown on me. Who in town doesn't want to kill Trent, lol.

Loved John with Stefano. Those two are just wonderful together. Really loved Stefano the cute scene with reading to the twins. He can be cute and funny like a big teddy bear at times, then soooo evil. I guess that's why I love to hate him. I feel terrible for John. I really wonder what Stefano has planned. I can't believe I actually liked Rolf awhile back. Boo! hiss!! John's data structure is overloading? Please tell me he's not a really a robot or android or something.

Looking forward to John and Anna. Go Anna go! Save him!
Edited by Kyrai, Sep 23 2008, 06:03 PM.
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ArizonaDaze
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Kyrai
Sep 23 2008, 06:00 PM

Loved John with Stefano. Those two are just wonderful together. Really loved Stefano the cute scene with reading to the twins. He can be cute and funny like a big teddy bear at times, then soooo evil. I guess that's why I love to hate him. I feel terrible for John. I really wonder what Stefano has planned. I can't believe I actually liked Rolf awhile back. Boo! hiss!! John's data structure is overloading? Please tell me he's not a really a robot or android or something.

Looking forward to John and Anna. Go Anna go! Save him!
Funny you should mention this Kyrai. I have sometimes thought that TruJohn was really dead and NuJohn is just a clone or someone that Stefano made to look like John. No comment on today's show as I haven't seen it yet.
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Kyrai


ArizonaDaze
Sep 23 2008, 06:10 PM
Kyrai
Sep 23 2008, 06:00 PM

Loved John with Stefano. Those two are just wonderful together. Really loved Stefano the cute scene with reading to the twins. He can be cute and funny like a big teddy bear at times, then soooo evil. I guess that's why I love to hate him. I feel terrible for John. I really wonder what Stefano has planned. I can't believe I actually liked Rolf awhile back. Boo! hiss!! John's data structure is overloading? Please tell me he's not a really a robot or android or something.

Looking forward to John and Anna. Go Anna go! Save him!
Funny you should mention this Kyrai. I have sometimes thought that TruJohn was really dead and NuJohn is just a clone or someone that Stefano made to look like John. No comment on today's show as I haven't seen it yet.
I don't even want to think that, unless maybe TruJohn is stashed somewhere, and even then, I've come to like new John's evolving into a old-nu blend. I'd miss this John.

The thought of him not being John has occurred to me several times though, especially when spoilers talk of short-circuiting and such. I still hope not. Odd as it seems, I like the idea of Stefano having finally taken real 'old' John's memory again. It's like a sequel to Maison Blanche. Aside from Marlena, I'm hooked on this story atm.
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ArizonaDaze
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Kyrai
Sep 23 2008, 06:22 PM
ArizonaDaze
Sep 23 2008, 06:10 PM
Kyrai
Sep 23 2008, 06:00 PM

Loved John with Stefano. Those two are just wonderful together. Really loved Stefano the cute scene with reading to the twins. He can be cute and funny like a big teddy bear at times, then soooo evil. I guess that's why I love to hate him. I feel terrible for John. I really wonder what Stefano has planned. I can't believe I actually liked Rolf awhile back. Boo! hiss!! John's data structure is overloading? Please tell me he's not a really a robot or android or something.

Looking forward to John and Anna. Go Anna go! Save him!
Funny you should mention this Kyrai. I have sometimes thought that TruJohn was really dead and NuJohn is just a clone or someone that Stefano made to look like John. No comment on today's show as I haven't seen it yet.
I don't even want to think that, unless maybe TruJohn is stashed somewhere, and even then, I've come to like new John's evolving into a old-nu blend. I'd miss this John.

The thought of him not being John has occurred to me several times though, especially when spoilers talk of short-circuiting and such. I still hope not. Odd as it seems, I like the idea of Stefano having finally taken real 'old' John's memory again. It's like a sequel to Maison Blanche. Aside from Marlena, I'm hooked on this story atm.
Good points. A Tru/NuJohn blend might be best for the character.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Pearly
Sep 23 2008, 01:44 PM
jane1978
Sep 23 2008, 01:34 PM
Of course, I had to laugh outloud when poor Rolf appeared at the end and informed Stefano Johnīs brain is about to have a data overload. Is John a cyborg?

When NuJohn first appeared, I always said he had sooo many similarities to Data from Star Trek.... :ermmmm:
LOL, I've said that, too! Great minds and all that...I would swear Drake probably fell asleep watching STNG. But the voice still channels Bugman from Men in Black.
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Days4Life


As more of a general fan of the show than a fanbase type of fan, I found myself liking Marlena more today than I have in weeks. Although the words coming out of her mouth were all about leaving John, he's not the same man, she has to take care of herself, etc., you could see in her face and in her eyes that she doesn't really feel in her heart that's the right thing to do. She doesn't want to give up on John, but she's trying to protect herself against this man who is a familiar stranger. I thought Deidre did an excellent job of portraying that anguish, especially when Anna asked if she was going to proceed with the divorce.

Cute scene at the beginning with Stefano reading to the twins. The scenes with John were good, too, and I'm glad they went into some detail about why John feels he has a right to the Dimera empire. I'm ready for some hints as to what Stefano is up to, and I'm curious about what's going on inside John's head.

I thought the police commissioner story was very strange, and I don't like that Hope was the third choice. With her brains and her experience, she's a much better choice than Roman (who's inept and too easily manipulated) or Bo (too hot-headed and rebellious to handle a political position like that). I also can't believe Hope wasn't approached about it first but was surprised at the news conference. The whole thing was lame.

Trent gets more and more despicable every day. I'm ready for him to be gone. Loving Melanie and Nick; good job by both actors.
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luvpumpkns
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Days4Life
Sep 23 2008, 06:54 PM
I thought the police commissioner story was very strange, and I don't like that Hope was the third choice. With her brains and her experience, she's a much better choice than Roman (who's inept and too easily manipulated) or Bo (too hot-headed and rebellious to handle a political position like that). I also can't believe Hope wasn't approached about it first but was surprised at the news conference. The whole thing was lame.

me, too. i also thought it was odd that they seemed to make us think the mayor was being bribed by stefano, then today we discover that he wanted roman for the job after abe resigned. i guess we are to assume that he is honest, but the 'clues' they were throwing us last week, and some of the things he said made me believe that the guy was crooked. today he was a totally different guy. very weird storyline.
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Kyrai


Days4Life
Sep 23 2008, 06:54 PM
As more of a general fan of the show than a fanbase type of fan, I found myself liking Marlena more today than I have in weeks. Although the words coming out of her mouth were all about leaving John, he's not the same man, she has to take care of herself, etc., you could see in her face and in her eyes that she doesn't really feel in her heart that's the right thing to do. She doesn't want to give up on John, but she's trying to protect herself against this man who is a familiar stranger. I thought Deidre did an excellent job of portraying that anguish, especially when Anna asked if she was going to proceed with the divorce.

Cute scene at the beginning with Stefano reading to the twins. The scenes with John were good, too, and I'm glad they went into some detail about why John feels he has a right to the Dimera empire. I'm ready for some hints as to what Stefano is up to, and I'm curious about what's going on inside John's head.

I thought the police commissioner story was very strange, and I don't like that Hope was the third choice. With her brains and her experience, she's a much better choice than Roman (who's inept and too easily manipulated) or Bo (too hot-headed and rebellious to handle a political position like that). I also can't believe Hope wasn't approached about it first but was surprised at the news conference. The whole thing was lame.

Trent gets more and more despicable every day. I'm ready for him to be gone. Loving Melanie and Nick; good job by both actors.
After 22 years of John and Marlena always being there for each other against all odds, and all the off the wall things they've been thru, it's just out of character, imo, for Marlena or John to just give up on the other. They have a history built on a special love that gets them thru the most dire of situations. I hate that special bond being systematically destroyed. They symbolize 'Love conquers all' to me, not when Stefano victimizes John, Marlena runs off and leaves him. I can get past it. I do like the John story. I just wish they'd kept Marlena in character historically. I think you'd have to see all they've been thru together over the years to understand how I feel. I've also appreciated Marlena as a special caring person over the years, and don't see her just not helping anyone that she thinks needs help. 'She notices something is wrong with John, but has to take care of herself' is sooo not Marlena. She's always cared about everyone. It's one of the things that upset Roman back when he was with Marlena. How she put others before their marriage.

I think (hope) Stefano is up to something really amazing. I can't wait to find out what. It sounded almost like Rolf was worried John wouldn't live long enough to 'enjoy' whatever Stefano was planning. I'm very curious.

Also curious about who will actually kill Trent.
Edited by Kyrai, Sep 23 2008, 07:35 PM.
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Alligato
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Wow! I just loved John and Stefano today! They just brought it! Stefano is just the best character to me because I know he is an evil dude, but I feel sympathy for him sometimes. So it is about his grandchildren for him and his empire...not so much about wanting to keep procreating with Kate...by the way, did Kate ever give Steffie an answer about marriage?

Oh and WTF with Steffie reading to the twins? WhereTF is Sami? You mean to tell me that she has a fit that Ali's father/Lucas takes her with another responsible adult for some quality time, but she is nowhere to be found when Devil man is alone reading them a story?? Where is that "protective anger" that she has never known?? And yea, it had nothing to do with Lucas taking Chloe to the cabin at all! GMAB!

By the by, loved that John called Stefano "Steffie". I can't wait to see these two brothers get it on!!! And John looks surprisingly hot...and I am still not sure how John thinks that he can kick Steffie out of the house. ITS HIS HOUSE AND STUFF!!! How does John expect to do this all?? I don't understand that. 'Sup with Rolf though?
Weird that Steffie keeps talking about his grandkids...I'll bet he will move Nicole into the DiMansion when he finds out she is pregnant...I wonder how Nicole will take to him. That might be a good story.

If Melanie tells Trent with her bared teeth "I hate you" one more time, I am going to have a break down. I am tired of this already. Somebody kill that man!...or her! I like Melanie and all, but I love her angry just as much as I love Max angry. Ugh.

It was nice to see Skeletor...er...Hope and Lexie have a girls chat. I think Hope would be a great Commissioner and I look forward to this storyline.
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hops
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Alligato
Sep 23 2008, 09:23 PM


By the by, loved that John called Stefano "Steffie". I can't wait to see these two brothers get it on!!! And John looks surprisingly hot...and I am still not sure how John thinks that he can kick Steffie out of the house. ITS HIS HOUSE AND STUFF!!! How does John expect to do this all?? I don't understand that. 'Sup with Rolf though?
LOL, I loved when John called Stefano "Steffie" too. I'm really liking this change in John, he is becoming more complex with emotions showing themselves here and there.
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hops
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Kyrai
Sep 23 2008, 07:30 PM
Days4Life
Sep 23 2008, 06:54 PM
As more of a general fan of the show than a fanbase type of fan, I found myself liking Marlena more today than I have in weeks. Although the words coming out of her mouth were all about leaving John, he's not the same man, she has to take care of herself, etc., you could see in her face and in her eyes that she doesn't really feel in her heart that's the right thing to do. She doesn't want to give up on John, but she's trying to protect herself against this man who is a familiar stranger. I thought Deidre did an excellent job of portraying that anguish, especially when Anna asked if she was going to proceed with the divorce.

Cute scene at the beginning with Stefano reading to the twins. The scenes with John were good, too, and I'm glad they went into some detail about why John feels he has a right to the Dimera empire. I'm ready for some hints as to what Stefano is up to, and I'm curious about what's going on inside John's head.

I thought the police commissioner story was very strange, and I don't like that Hope was the third choice. With her brains and her experience, she's a much better choice than Roman (who's inept and too easily manipulated) or Bo (too hot-headed and rebellious to handle a political position like that). I also can't believe Hope wasn't approached about it first but was surprised at the news conference. The whole thing was lame.

Trent gets more and more despicable every day. I'm ready for him to be gone. Loving Melanie and Nick; good job by both actors.
After 22 years of John and Marlena always being there for each other against all odds, and all the off the wall things they've been thru, it's just out of character, imo, for Marlena or John to just give up on the other. They have a history built on a special love that gets them thru the most dire of situations. I hate that special bond being systematically destroyed. They symbolize 'Love conquers all' to me, not when Stefano victimizes John, Marlena runs off and leaves him. I can get past it. I do like the John story. I just wish they'd kept Marlena in character historically. I think you'd have to see all they've been thru together over the years to understand how I feel. I've also appreciated Marlena as a special caring person over the years, and don't see her just not helping anyone that she thinks needs help. 'She notices something is wrong with John, but has to take care of herself' is sooo not Marlena. She's always cared about everyone. It's one of the things that upset Roman back when he was with Marlena. How she put others before their marriage.

I think (hope) Stefano is up to something really amazing. I can't wait to find out what. It sounded almost like Rolf was worried John wouldn't live long enough to 'enjoy' whatever Stefano was planning. I'm very curious.

Also curious about who will actually kill Trent.
I've seen tomorrow's show and you will see more of how Marlena really feels and it finally got me on board. I really liked that they didn't just drop it or repeat, but went deeper with what she is really going through. Very good scene between Marlena and Kayla tomorrow. I have been wanting stuff like this all along. And John broke my heart he was so cute. And Marlena made me cheer at the end.
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Kenny
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John called him "Steffie?"

Wasn't that Princess Gina's schtick?

GINA: "Steffie's getting stuffy, Steffie's getting stuffy!"

VIVIAN: "Excuse me! Excuuuuse me! What are you doing with my husband?!"
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

hops
Sep 23 2008, 10:25 PM
Kyrai
Sep 23 2008, 07:30 PM
Days4Life
Sep 23 2008, 06:54 PM
As more of a general fan of the show than a fanbase type of fan, I found myself liking Marlena more today than I have in weeks. Although the words coming out of her mouth were all about leaving John, he's not the same man, she has to take care of herself, etc., you could see in her face and in her eyes that she doesn't really feel in her heart that's the right thing to do. She doesn't want to give up on John, but she's trying to protect herself against this man who is a familiar stranger. I thought Deidre did an excellent job of portraying that anguish, especially when Anna asked if she was going to proceed with the divorce.

Cute scene at the beginning with Stefano reading to the twins. The scenes with John were good, too, and I'm glad they went into some detail about why John feels he has a right to the Dimera empire. I'm ready for some hints as to what Stefano is up to, and I'm curious about what's going on inside John's head.

I thought the police commissioner story was very strange, and I don't like that Hope was the third choice. With her brains and her experience, she's a much better choice than Roman (who's inept and too easily manipulated) or Bo (too hot-headed and rebellious to handle a political position like that). I also can't believe Hope wasn't approached about it first but was surprised at the news conference. The whole thing was lame.

Trent gets more and more despicable every day. I'm ready for him to be gone. Loving Melanie and Nick; good job by both actors.
After 22 years of John and Marlena always being there for each other against all odds, and all the off the wall things they've been thru, it's just out of character, imo, for Marlena or John to just give up on the other. They have a history built on a special love that gets them thru the most dire of situations. I hate that special bond being systematically destroyed. They symbolize 'Love conquers all' to me, not when Stefano victimizes John, Marlena runs off and leaves him. I can get past it. I do like the John story. I just wish they'd kept Marlena in character historically. I think you'd have to see all they've been thru together over the years to understand how I feel. I've also appreciated Marlena as a special caring person over the years, and don't see her just not helping anyone that she thinks needs help. 'She notices something is wrong with John, but has to take care of herself' is sooo not Marlena. She's always cared about everyone. It's one of the things that upset Roman back when he was with Marlena. How she put others before their marriage.

I think (hope) Stefano is up to something really amazing. I can't wait to find out what. It sounded almost like Rolf was worried John wouldn't live long enough to 'enjoy' whatever Stefano was planning. I'm very curious.

Also curious about who will actually kill Trent.
I've seen tomorrow's show and you will see more of how Marlena really feels and it finally got me on board. I really liked that they didn't just drop it or repeat, but went deeper with what she is really going through. Very good scene between Marlena and Kayla tomorrow. I have been wanting stuff like this all along. And John broke my heart he was so cute. And Marlena made me cheer at the end.
I've seen it too and I also encourage some fans upset with the writing for Marlena to watch.

Today and tomorrow make it explicit what Marlena's feelings and it all goes along with what I've been saying all along. It's not that she wants to turn her back on John. She just feels she has to. She gave the man 8 months. Then he turns back to her AFTER Ava leaves. Can anyone blame Marlena for being suspicious given who THIS John is? It would be out of character and dumb for Marlena to just forget the past 8 months and the Ava thing.

Plus, let's remember what John did to her a few weeks ago. He convinced her to give into him AGAIN and the minute after they make love he acts like he conquered territory and showed her again that he's still the same John she's had to deal with the past 8 months. It's been one step forward, two steps back and she can't continue that. She needs to have a life and the whole hospital situation and Sam showed her the light. She realizes she has other things to worry about. Her family, her practice, her life. It's not just about John and the problem with the writing for Marlena the past decade is that she's been too much about John. She became his lapdog after marrying him and I'm beyond sick of it, which is why this is so refreshing. If they have to reunite, keep her feisty and independent. I don't want to see Marlena dependent on John for everything. I want to see her in control of her life and taking matters into her own hands. The Marlena we've been getting the past month is the true Marlena and I know J&M fans hate it but it's the truth. It's just funny how so many fans complain about wanting characters in character but if it becomes a hurdle for their beloved couple, it's out of character and poor writing. Well, we will just have to agree to disagree because I've watched nearly the whole time Marlena has been on this show and this is the first time (with the exception of last Fall and winter) that Marlena has been in character in over ten years, easy.

Also, another point and for the last time...THIS IS THE OLD JOHN!!! Marlena is not turning her back on John. THIS IS NOT JOHN!! This is a man created by Stefano. He's a different person so saying Marlena is out of character for turning her back on him is just an argument that doesn't make a lick of sense given everything that has happened. How much more does the show have to do? Seriously, the writing and Dee has made it very known onscreen that Marlena does not want to do this. She feels she has to. She mentioned it a few weeks ago how the more she pushed John, the harder he tried to define himself, which drove him into crime and doing some destructive things. She can't accept him the way he is and feels pushing him any further will end up destroying him and herself. Her whole life can't be him. She was losing herself. Everything was John and she even went against her oath and put a man in a coma because of this. She's doing what she thinks it's best despite not really wanting to let go. She loves him but she wants to be fair to him and to herself. It's just not right to push for something that won't work right now.

It's funny how well this came together despite Higley and Scott fighting backstage and all the directionless writing. It's also funny how J&M's story finally comes back to form when Higley's stuff gets going again. The direction is there and both are in character. Hmm...makes me wonder what could've been. Seriously, bad stories are one thing but a directionless show is much worse. Now we have direction and it does wonders. I also said numerous times that the Ava thing would come up again and here it is. Marlena is mentioning it a great deal and she should be. It's important. I'm just in love with this whole setup right now. The Marlena/Anna scenes today were just so good and ironed out so many details. Tomorrow does a good job of that too and the end really will please some fans and prove the points I've made above. I'm just so glad to see Anna being used so much and to see the friendship between Anna and Marlena on display. Love how Anna called her out a bit too. So realistic and fitting.

Speaking of friendship, it was so great to see Lexie and Hope sharing scenes and talking. I love the way their talk today plays a role in the cop shop stuff tomorrow. Good tie in. Also LOVED the Bo/Roman/Abe scenes. I just love how friendships and relationships are back in form on this show. I like that Abe tried to convince Bo and Roman. That was fitting because Abe is highly regarded so he could get either one in. I did like how they went through the points that work against both of them actually getting the job and I was glad they mentioned Bo's tenuous history with the PD and the recent internal affairs stuff. It's clear the Paul stuff was not Higley's because she quickly got rid of that. I also liked Abe having a hand in Hope getting the job. Roman and Bo turned him down so why not? The fact that Hope was not consulted didn't bother me. The Mayor was just announcing the only candidate he had. It's clear tomorrow he didn't want her but Abe's friends pushed for her so he had no choice. Things like that happen, especially in a job like commissioner. If it mayor or something, fine but I didn't mind her not knowing and I liked the whole broadcast setup. Realistic and I liked the approach of leaving who it was as a surprise until the end. I don't mind the actor playing the mayor. He's not the best (and wasn't on AMC either) but he fits the part.

John/Stefano was also very good and I'm glad they mentioned the Alamain money. I know some never understood John's motivation for wanting more money and power and I'm glad they went into that today. John calling Stefano "Steffie" was funny and I was glad also that they had Stefano mention how his plans involve his grandchildren and not having more children. I had a feeling it had nothing to do with having more kids. Good scenes and this whole thing with John's headaches is taking a interesting turn. It gets even better tomorrow. Stefano's plan is also interesting. I have no idea what he is up to but he drops some more hints tomorrow and it's clear something big is coming...I almost wonder if it involves Brady (Hint: He mentions to Rolf that maybe they should find someone new to play with after Rolf mentions taking John back as their Pawn". Very interesting.

I did like Stefano reading to the kids too. How cute! Joe looked like he had fun with that. The babies were adorable. I only wish Sami or EJ had seen it but I understand the need for the scene as it ties in with Stefano's current goals and setup the John/Stefano tension. I enjoyed Rolf today as well and Stefano trying to give John aspirin and feigning concerns in regards to his headaches. :laugh:

Melanie/Nick/Trent felt like a repeat of yesterday but it was needed. They are trying to keep the story relevant until the big happenings later in the week, which is the right thing to do rather then drop it for a day and lose momentum. Molly Burnett continues to impress and I'm so glad Blake has material to really work with now. Loving him lately and Roscoe has really turned on the sleaze. I wish Higley had written for him all along because I like this direction for him.

Very good today and even better tomorrow. There is some nice little surprises tomorrow and the stories really take some nice turns.

Whether it's Higley, Tomlin, or whoever, this is the best Days has been for me in a long time (and that says alot because I usually like it anyway LOL).
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Sep 23 2008, 11:01 PM.
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Mason
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Kenny
Sep 23 2008, 10:27 PM
John called him "Steffie?"

Wasn't that Princess Gina's schtick?

GINA: "Steffie's getting stuffy, Steffie's getting stuffy!"

VIVIAN: "Excuse me! Excuuuuse me! What are you doing with my husband?!"
LOVE that scene! :lol:
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Deleted User
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Question: Has Paul Hollingsworth been written out yet?
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Amello
Sep 24 2008, 01:13 AM
Question: Has Paul Hollingsworth been written out yet?
Yes.

He was sent off to prison the first week of September. Even without the official announcement, you could tell he was done as he took the fall for everything.
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PhoenixRising05
Sep 24 2008, 01:36 AM
Amello
Sep 24 2008, 01:13 AM
Question: Has Paul Hollingsworth been written out yet?
Yes.

He was sent off to prison the first week of September. Even without the official announcement, you could tell he was done as he took the fall for everything.
Thank you for that confirmation Phoenix. It's a shame his character wasn't utilized better. One of the rare times a new character fully interests me and it gets screwed up. Just my luck.
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Kyrai


PhoenixRising05
Sep 23 2008, 10:55 PM
I've seen it too and I also encourage some fans upset with the writing for Marlena to watch.

Today and tomorrow make it explicit what Marlena's feelings and it all goes along with what I've been saying all along. It's not that she wants to turn her back on John. She just feels she has to. She gave the man 8 months. Then he turns back to her AFTER Ava leaves. Can anyone blame Marlena for being suspicious given who THIS John is? It would be out of character and dumb for Marlena to just forget the past 8 months and the Ava thing.

Plus, let's remember what John did to her a few weeks ago. He convinced her to give into him AGAIN and the minute after they make love he acts like he conquered territory and showed her again that he's still the same John she's had to deal with the past 8 months. It's been one step forward, two steps back and she can't continue that. She needs to have a life and the whole hospital situation and Sam showed her the light. She realizes she has other things to worry about. Her family, her practice, her life. It's not just about John and the problem with the writing for Marlena the past decade is that she's been too much about John. She became his lapdog after marrying him and I'm beyond sick of it, which is why this is so refreshing. If they have to reunite, keep her feisty and independent. I don't want to see Marlena dependent on John for everything. I want to see her in control of her life and taking matters into her own hands. The Marlena we've been getting the past month is the true Marlena and I know J&M fans hate it but it's the truth. It's just funny how so many fans complain about wanting characters in character but if it becomes a hurdle for their beloved couple, it's out of character and poor writing. Well, we will just have to agree to disagree because I've watched nearly the whole time Marlena has been on this show and this is the first time (with the exception of last Fall and winter) that Marlena has been in character in over ten years, easy.

Also, another point and for the last time...THIS IS THE OLD JOHN!!! Marlena is not turning her back on John. THIS IS NOT JOHN!! This is a man created by Stefano. He's a different person so saying Marlena is out of character for turning her back on him is just an argument that doesn't make a lick of sense given everything that has happened. How much more does the show have to do? Seriously, the writing and Dee has made it very known onscreen that Marlena does not want to do this. She feels she has to. She mentioned it a few weeks ago how the more she pushed John, the harder he tried to define himself, which drove him into crime and doing some destructive things. She can't accept him the way he is and feels pushing him any further will end up destroying him and herself. Her whole life can't be him. She was losing herself. Everything was John and she even went against her oath and put a man in a coma because of this. She's doing what she thinks it's best despite not really wanting to let go. She loves him but she wants to be fair to him and to herself. It's just not right to push for something that won't work right now.

I don't understand why I've watched (and re-watched endlessly) J&M for many years, yet you can say I'm just wrong about Marlena? I know people have different feelings, can see the same things and interpret it differently. I try to understand that, and I like discussions about it because I like to know why people think things.

The Marlena I grew to love was always into people. A deep caring person. This goes beyond J&M. One of my favorite stories which WASN'T J&M. It was Marlena's involvement with Stella Lombard and Roger. That story was so interesting. They took an unloveable Roger (who even hit Kim while in a car drunk) and Marlena changed him into a person I really liked. It was a long story that went directions I didn't expect, but I really enjoyed it. and it showed a Marlena that really understood people, an excellent psychiatrist. Her taking time to really read people is a core thing to me. Maybe it's not for others. The fact that J&M shared an incredible bond (at least to me), would make me think she'd care about him as much if not more than a patient like Roger. But from the time they moved into the Dimera mansion, I never saw her try to help John get a handle on his new life or even understand what was going on with him. She just wanted 'her' old John back. THAT is what I have an issue with. I didn't expect her to just love him unconditionally. I expected her to treat him with at least as much respect as she would have a patient. She never seemed to care about him, only getting her old John back, making him defensive from the beginning.

If John were anyone else, would Marlena have treated him like she did? For me, the answer is no. Obviously you disagree. Since it is John, the man who has loved her unconditionally over the years, the man who offered his soul in exchange for hers, I expected a bit more, not less. You say Marlena was John's lapdog, but I don't see anything but love from him. He risked his life saving Roman, he had to watch while Marlena pretended she was with Roman, he had to compete again with Roman when Roman found out about their deception and was an a-#####. He stuck with Marlena thru the SSK story even though he thought she was a killer, thru the North story. Even in the little moments, he planned wonderful loving things for her. Dinner, dates, the wedding. Aside from storyline issues, I've never seen him as anything but loving. I don't see her as his lapdog at all. If anything, I've seen the opposite, but I accepted that he needed her more than she needed him. His life started with her. If you would provide an example or two of why you think she was his lapdog, I'd appreciate it. It may help me change my perspective. (Note, I view the 2000 Brady s/l as just a completely weird out of Days experience for John, Marlena and Brady).

As for this not being her John, I guess if Stefano had succeeded in taking John's memories and changing him after MB, she should have just said, ok Stefano, you win then too. The way I viewed Marlena, I figured had Stefano done that, she'd have still tried to get John back and been more patient and loving and understanding than she has been now. That was just my take. Maybe she'd have just given up then too though.

While I'm at it, exactly why is this John scum of the earth. Yes, he started the dock war by diverting some of Phil's shipments, but that's a far cry from setting someone up as a drug dealer, imo. Aside from trying to kill Colleen (which I'd like to think everyone blames on Stefano's programming), what else has he done that hasn't been the result of his friends and family turning on him? He locked Hollingsworth up in his basement after saving him. I didn't like that, but what exactly was John supposed to do? Everyone was supporting Phillip and out to get him. No one except Ava was giving John the benefit of the doubt. Should he have just sat there and done nothing?

He had an affair with Ava. Well, he tried to get back with Marlena. He did the best his sad brain would allow. Didn't he even tell Anna not to hit on him while he was with Marlena. Didn't he tell Marlena to make him her old John? She wasn't having any of it. She told him he wasn't the man she loved, and he should move on. She brought up the divorce word. Realizing that he couldn't be her John, he did exactly what she asked. He moved on with the ONLY person who treated him as a human being. Many J&M fans hate Ava, but I feel she was a very important part of the story. He needed someone to care about him. I think it showed despite the front he put on, he was lonely and needed SOMEONE to care for him without wanting him to be 'old' John (How I've missed Claire!). But now he's crucified for it. How dare he need someone to care about him.

And Marlena talks about how John has changed and flashes back to the moment in the bar where John was obviously going thru something strange. He was in pain. Her take. He's going thru something major, but I can't think of him. I have to think of ME. THAT was what killed me. When has she ever seen ANY friend in real pain and just said, 'not my problem'. What was the last scene we saw prior to yesterday? Was it the bar scene? NO, it was John having given up on Marlena but showing her that he DID really care. He empowered her to get over what she'd done to Stefano. Even in his horrible mental state, he reached out to her. Told her he understood her feelings and why old John loved her and told her he would do anything, even die for her to protect her. But she only remembers the bar scene and realizing he's too messed up for her to deal with.

I've come to accept that this is the new Marlena (or accept that I've just been viewing Marlena as a different person for many years and finally see her as she really is). I am okay with it. I'm actually tired of trying to find excuses for Marlena and wanting them back together. I will keep my old core J&M separate and move on because I really do like the new John. I'm just disappointed in Marlena in this story, and quite honestly, would not mind if they both move on to separate relationships. I don't think anyone has the pure chemistry of Drake and Deidre to me, but I will get over it. I think they need some older women to join the show though since all the older women are taken except Kate whose obviously in another storyline. I actually did like Kate with John. I think she was there for John during his drug addiction storyline more than Marlena has been there for John here. I would like for Marlena to become a likeable person to me again too. Hard as it is for me to say, I think splitting them up may be the best thing after all. I don't want J&M at any cost. I want my favorite characters to be my favorite characters again.

I do agree with your other comments about Stefano and John. I did love alot about those scenes. Them arguing over who deserves to be in prison more made me laugh out loud. Loved John calling him Steffie. I'd almost like Stefano and John to bond as brothers. Almost. :)
Edited by Kyrai, Sep 24 2008, 06:20 AM.
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Sindacco
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I absolutely loved Mondays show. Victor & Nicole, Stefano & Lexie, Trent. Awesome stuff.
Edited by Sindacco, Sep 24 2008, 11:14 AM.
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