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DAYS: Weekly Discussion; For the week of October 6, 2008
Topic Started: Oct 5 2008, 02:00 AM (4,912 Views)
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Classic Clip of the Week

The first part of eight to Tom Horton's funeral.



and now my thoughts ...

So I just finished watching Monday's episode, my first ever since August and I have to say, for the most part, I enjoyed it.

1) Melanie not being afraid to say what she wants is refreshing for DAYS, but Molly Burnett needs to learn how to stop clenching her teeth. Plus, in this episode it felt like she wasn't fully awake yet. The show also needs to work on having characters together and not making it seem like they're going to be paired up. I.E Phillip and Melanie. Speaking of Phillip, the hair people need to get their act together and stop showing off his five-head. It makes him look like a monkey. Oh, and Max warning her about Phillip was done just right. Max didn't act like Phillip was this huge Stefano like villain but just showed concerned like a big brother should. I really hope with spoilers stating that Stephanie is found with Trent's wallet that Melanie DOES have a plan to frame her and it actually WORKS. Thus, it would be a nice twist and a creative way to get rid of Shelly Hennig. Not every story has to end happily.

2) Kayla and Marlena's conversation was nice but its just sad to me that someone of Mary Beth Evans' acting ability is relegated to prop #1.

3) The biggest shocker for me was enjoying Sami and Lucas together ... as friends of course. Lucas always throwing zingers at her made me laugh on purpose but Sami was still a little OTT for the rest of the show.

4) Which brings me to John. Someone needs to tell Drake to stop talking like he's a zombie. He could still use his regular voice, because his low one makes him sound like an idiot. And I hate the talk of their being this DiMera business with board members and such. Stefano doesn't have a legit business and never would.

But all in all it was an alright show. However, the show needs to do something to really grip me in as a viewer.
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Tripp
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Geekette

Oh, thanks for starting this Amello.

I have to say I enjoyed Monday's show, but am not liking how OOC it feels that Philip is "helping" Melanie. At least use the Victor/Caroline connection to make him care about who Trent's killer is. Also I worry the show is trying to do a light chem test here with Philip/Melanie which I have huge problems iwth and no need to go there with Nick/Melanie and Philip's segway into Chloe/Brady . I'm really hoping this is simply used to give Philip a diversion until Lucas/Chloe split up and estrange Mick some which I admit were moving too fast. I do wish we could have heard more of what Melanie thought of Nick but I guess that was the point for her to cut him off.

I also agree they are wasting MBE's talents letting her be supporting to other characters 100% of the time. I'm fine with that for a little while but I would love for her to have her own story.

The Philip/Chelsea scenes were pretty good. Loved Chelsea smacking Philip upside the head for Morgan. Rm did a good job with her worry over Kate but it is irritating for her to call Dan up (in such a way he will probably get the wrong idea of why she wants to meet) and ask him questions he isn't going to answer. I also LOATHED to hear Chelsea admit to still loving Dan as I never bought them being in love initially anyway.

The Lucas/Sami stuff was cute and I can see why it's easy liking them as friends.
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hops
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Since when did Stefano have a 'board' he had to answer to.

I could see that Marlena was upset talking about divorcing John, but I still don't understand why she has to go through with this no matter what, especially because you can see how much she cares about him (the person he is now). Loved that John took matters into his own hands and acted on instinct and layed a big one on her at the end. From the preview it looks like she is moved, but still determined. I'm a little disappointed that they went from talking non stop about the disk, to talking about divorce. There is so much more to this story then that.
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Kyrai


hops
Oct 5 2008, 10:04 AM
Since when did Stefano have a 'board' he had to answer to.

I could see that Marlena was upset talking about divorcing John, but I still don't understand why she has to go through with this no matter what, especially because you can see how much she cares about him (the person he is now). Loved that John took matters into his own hands and acted on instinct and layed a big one on her at the end. From the preview it looks like she is moved, but still determined. I'm a little disappointed that they went from talking non stop about the disk, to talking about divorce. There is so much more to this story then that.
I feel the same way.

I just don't see why she's so anxious to pursue the divorce. It just doesn't make sense to me when he's changing before her very eyes, but particularly given the concerns about John's brain. He could die. Why be in a hurry to get a divorce NOW?
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

^Because Marlena thinks it's what is best. That and she committed to this plan over a month ago before John started having issues. She knows this John. He may get better and may try to manipulate the situation to his advantage. They've had Marlena explain numerous times her position. She feels like it's self-destructive for both of them to remain together. She's given John plenty of chances and while she doesn't want to divorce him, she feels it's what is best for both of them. She needs to take control of her life and she thinks it's best for him to be away from her. For months, she kept pushing him and, as a result, he did horrible things to form his own identity...to show he wasn't her John. She knows that and that is why she wants out. This way she won't be constantly reminding him of her John and he can live his own life without worrying about the ghost of old John.

She still loves him and that is why she's committed to helping him but she doesn't want to allow herself to give into him again so she's maintaining her divorce position. She doesn't want to get hurt again and she doesn't want to hurt him.

I already watched Monday too but I will wait to comment until tomorrow. My posts end to spoil the episode LOL.
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cassie1013


I personally think it would be way too typical DAYS and stupid if Marlena didn't want to divorce John. I like them, but seriously, he's not even the same person. How dumb does that make her look?

I think it would be best to go with the divorce route - it doesn't mean she doesn't love the REAL John. Then when he does eventually come back, they can get back together or whatever.

Since when does Steffie have a board? what?
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DrewHamilton
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cassie1013
Oct 5 2008, 03:44 PM
I personally think it would be way too typical DAYS and stupid if Marlena didn't want to divorce John. I like them, but seriously, he's not even the same person. How dumb does that make her look?

I think it would be best to go with the divorce route - it doesn't mean she doesn't love the REAL John. Then when he does eventually come back, they can get back together or whatever.
I agree. This John is not someone Marlena would be attracted to. It's unbelievable that she would want to remain married to John the way he is now. Of course she's always going to have that feeling that the old John could emerge, but it's been months now and one has to grow tired of hope and lose it and move on with their lives. That's what needs to happen with Marlena.

I'm not saying that they have to instantly hook Marlena up with another man. That's not necessary, but I have to admit that I wouldn't mind seeing Marlena have a new man in her life that she falls in love with. Then, just as Marlena and her man are getting more serious, John gets his memory back and now we're in store for a classic star-crossed lovers reunion that John and Marlena fans know best.
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Ellie


DrewHamilton
Oct 5 2008, 03:55 PM
I agree. This John is not someone Marlena would be attracted to. It's unbelievable that she would want to remain married to John the way he is now. Of course she's always going to have that feeling that the old John could emerge, but it's been months now and one has to grow tired of hope and lose it and move on with their lives. That's what needs to happen with Marlena.

I'm not saying that they have to instantly hook Marlena up with another man. That's not necessary, but I have to admit that I wouldn't mind seeing Marlena have a new man in her life that she falls in love with. Then, just as Marlena and her man are getting more serious, John gets his memory back and now we're in store for a classic star-crossed lovers reunion that John and Marlena fans know best.
I think John and Marlena have always (or almost always) been written as having an underlying connection that supersedes anything else. Though it may sound sappy, the writing for them has long suggested that something 'otherworldly' is drawing them to each other. I don't think John's having a new personality would change that. The part of the current story which makes the least sense to me is that Marlena is not being written as caring enough about John to try anything other than yearning for a computer disk to bring him back. It's like, since the disk is broken, she's ready to say goodbye to the man who she's loved for years.

Ideally, in my mind, the story would have gone as follows: Marlena tries all she can to help John regain his memory. In the process, she falls in love with the "new John". Then, John does get his memory back, and she realizes she's loved the same man all along, no matter what his personality.
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ladyofthelake
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Quote:
 
1) Melanie not being afraid to say what she wants is refreshing for DAYS, but Molly Burnett needs to learn how to stop clenching her teeth.

I often feel she tries to imitate Rachel Melvin with her mouth "gestures" (facial expressions? Something like that).
Quote:
 
2) Kayla and Marlena's conversation was nice but its just sad to me that someone of Mary Beth Evans' acting ability is relegated to prop #1.

:hail:
Quote:
 
3) The biggest shocker for me was enjoying Sami and Lucas together ... as friends of course. Lucas always throwing zingers at her made me laugh on purpose but Sami was still a little OTT for the rest of the show.

I'm looking forward to that. I miss the natural Sami/Lucas banter dynamic.

Quote:
 
4) Which brings me to John. Someone needs to tell Drake to stop talking like he's a zombie. He could still use his regular voice, because his low one makes him sound like an idiot.


it's still a lot like Data channeling Clint Eastwood channeling Men In Black's Bugman.
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ladyofthelake
Oct 5 2008, 06:01 PM
Quote:
 
1) Melanie not being afraid to say what she wants is refreshing for DAYS, but Molly Burnett needs to learn how to stop clenching her teeth.

I often feel she tries to imitate Rachel Melvin with her mouth "gestures" (facial expressions? Something like that).
They have the same make-up around the eyes that makes them look similar I think.
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madelinehawaii


Ellie
Oct 5 2008, 04:34 PM
DrewHamilton
Oct 5 2008, 03:55 PM
I agree. This John is not someone Marlena would be attracted to. It's unbelievable that she would want to remain married to John the way he is now. Of course she's always going to have that feeling that the old John could emerge, but it's been months now and one has to grow tired of hope and lose it and move on with their lives. That's what needs to happen with Marlena.

I'm not saying that they have to instantly hook Marlena up with another man. That's not necessary, but I have to admit that I wouldn't mind seeing Marlena have a new man in her life that she falls in love with. Then, just as Marlena and her man are getting more serious, John gets his memory back and now we're in store for a classic star-crossed lovers reunion that John and Marlena fans know best.
I think John and Marlena have always (or almost always) been written as having an underlying connection that supersedes anything else. Though it may sound sappy, the writing for them has long suggested that something 'otherworldly' is drawing them to each other. I don't think John's having a new personality would change that. The part of the current story which makes the least sense to me is that Marlena is not being written as caring enough about John to try anything other than yearning for a computer disk to bring him back. It's like, since the disk is broken, she's ready to say goodbye to the man who she's loved for years.

Ideally, in my mind, the story would have gone as follows: Marlena tries all she can to help John regain his memory. In the process, she falls in love with the "new John". Then, John does get his memory back, and she realizes she's loved the same man all along, no matter what his personality.
this is probably in large part the reason I got tired of John with Marlena...the idea that it was inevitable and no one or thing, even the devil could keep them apart. I didn't find that romantic (which I'm sure is simply my own flaw lol) but over time that connection thing has stagnated into something extremely predictable. I realize love is to some degree a mystery...why we fall for one person and not another and what keeps us together, but one's personality and past still have something to do with that and the idea that two people can't fall out of love or lose their connection seems to me rather like suggesting that people don't die. Loss is as much a part of life as love and the latter wouldn't mean much without the possibility of the former.
Edited by madelinehawaii, Oct 5 2008, 07:27 PM.
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Ellie


madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 07:24 PM
this is probably in large part the reason I got tired of John with Marlena...the idea that it was inevitable and no one or thing, even the devil could keep them apart. I didn't find that romantic (which I'm sure is simply my own flaw lol) but over time that connection thing has stagnated into something extremely predictable. I realize love is to some degree a mystery...why we fall for one person and not another and what keeps us together, but one's personality and past still have something to do with that and the idea that two people can't fall out of love or lose their connection seems to me rather like suggesting that people don't die. Loss is as much a part of life as love and the latter wouldn't mean much without the possibility of the former.
Oh, I'm not saying that any two people can't fall out of love. I'm saying that John and Marlena wouldn't fall out of love. And if that sounds silly... it's a soap, and they're fictional characters. I understand you don't like that aspect of their relationship, and that's certainly your prerogative, but I would venture to say that many (most?) of the viewers who have liked them over the years have appreciated them in part because of that aspect. So while you find it predictable, many expect it to be the driving force behind their stories. And when it isn't, those viewers who do like it are left feeling alienated, because characters they enjoy watching are behaving out of character, and a relationship they've appreciated for over 20 years now seems as though it had been built on quicksand.
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madelinehawaii


Ellie
Oct 5 2008, 07:45 PM
madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 07:24 PM
this is probably in large part the reason I got tired of John with Marlena...the idea that it was inevitable and no one or thing, even the devil could keep them apart. I didn't find that romantic (which I'm sure is simply my own flaw lol) but over time that connection thing has stagnated into something extremely predictable. I realize love is to some degree a mystery...why we fall for one person and not another and what keeps us together, but one's personality and past still have something to do with that and the idea that two people can't fall out of love or lose their connection seems to me rather like suggesting that people don't die. Loss is as much a part of life as love and the latter wouldn't mean much without the possibility of the former.
Oh, I'm not saying that any two people can't fall out of love. I'm saying that John and Marlena wouldn't fall out of love. And if that sounds silly... it's a soap, and they're fictional characters. I understand you don't like that aspect of their relationship, and that's certainly your prerogative, but I would venture to say that many (most?) of the viewers who have liked them over the years have appreciated them in part because of that aspect. So while you find it predictable, many expect it to be the driving force behind their stories. And when it isn't, those viewers who do like it are left feeling alienated, because characters they enjoy watching are behaving out of character, and a relationship they've appreciated for over 20 years now seems as though it had been built on quicksand.
even fictional characters need to be able to lose, or the audience is not going to care about them. If the deck is already stacked in their favor, what is the point?
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 08:06 PM
Ellie
Oct 5 2008, 07:45 PM
madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 07:24 PM
this is probably in large part the reason I got tired of John with Marlena...the idea that it was inevitable and no one or thing, even the devil could keep them apart. I didn't find that romantic (which I'm sure is simply my own flaw lol) but over time that connection thing has stagnated into something extremely predictable. I realize love is to some degree a mystery...why we fall for one person and not another and what keeps us together, but one's personality and past still have something to do with that and the idea that two people can't fall out of love or lose their connection seems to me rather like suggesting that people don't die. Loss is as much a part of life as love and the latter wouldn't mean much without the possibility of the former.
Oh, I'm not saying that any two people can't fall out of love. I'm saying that John and Marlena wouldn't fall out of love. And if that sounds silly... it's a soap, and they're fictional characters. I understand you don't like that aspect of their relationship, and that's certainly your prerogative, but I would venture to say that many (most?) of the viewers who have liked them over the years have appreciated them in part because of that aspect. So while you find it predictable, many expect it to be the driving force behind their stories. And when it isn't, those viewers who do like it are left feeling alienated, because characters they enjoy watching are behaving out of character, and a relationship they've appreciated for over 20 years now seems as though it had been built on quicksand.
even fictional characters need to be able to lose, or the audience is not going to care about them. If the deck is already stacked in their favor, what is the point?
That's so true. Where's the angst and the suspense?
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madelinehawaii


ladyofthelake
Oct 5 2008, 08:23 PM
madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 08:06 PM
Ellie
Oct 5 2008, 07:45 PM
madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 07:24 PM
this is probably in large part the reason I got tired of John with Marlena...the idea that it was inevitable and no one or thing, even the devil could keep them apart. I didn't find that romantic (which I'm sure is simply my own flaw lol) but over time that connection thing has stagnated into something extremely predictable. I realize love is to some degree a mystery...why we fall for one person and not another and what keeps us together, but one's personality and past still have something to do with that and the idea that two people can't fall out of love or lose their connection seems to me rather like suggesting that people don't die. Loss is as much a part of life as love and the latter wouldn't mean much without the possibility of the former.
Oh, I'm not saying that any two people can't fall out of love. I'm saying that John and Marlena wouldn't fall out of love. And if that sounds silly... it's a soap, and they're fictional characters. I understand you don't like that aspect of their relationship, and that's certainly your prerogative, but I would venture to say that many (most?) of the viewers who have liked them over the years have appreciated them in part because of that aspect. So while you find it predictable, many expect it to be the driving force behind their stories. And when it isn't, those viewers who do like it are left feeling alienated, because characters they enjoy watching are behaving out of character, and a relationship they've appreciated for over 20 years now seems as though it had been built on quicksand.
even fictional characters need to be able to lose, or the audience is not going to care about them. If the deck is already stacked in their favor, what is the point?
That's so true. Where's the angst and the suspense?
exactly...which is why, for me at least, most of the J/M stories of the last few years have rung hollow. Their reunion is always a forgone conclusion and if that is going to be the case, fine, but the show needs to stop putting the characters in a position like that and come up with something else for them to do.
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hops
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madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 08:06 PM
Ellie
Oct 5 2008, 07:45 PM
Oh, I'm not saying that any two people can't fall out of love. I'm saying that John and Marlena wouldn't fall out of love. And if that sounds silly... it's a soap, and they're fictional characters. I understand you don't like that aspect of their relationship, and that's certainly your prerogative, but I would venture to say that many (most?) of the viewers who have liked them over the years have appreciated them in part because of that aspect. So while you find it predictable, many expect it to be the driving force behind their stories. And when it isn't, those viewers who do like it are left feeling alienated, because characters they enjoy watching are behaving out of character, and a relationship they've appreciated for over 20 years now seems as though it had been built on quicksand.
even fictional characters need to be able to lose, or the audience is not going to care about them. If the deck is already stacked in their favor, what is the point?
I'm a fan of John and Marlena partially because of their connection. I want them together. That may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's mine. And that doesn't mean that is the only reason I like them. I personally am not a Bope fan, and they have a similar kind of love to John and Marlena, so there is a lot more to why I am a fan of John and Marlena. With John and Marlena, I think their love for each other has been a big part of their appeal. I liked them right away. I still like them. For me it has made watching much more enjoyable.

I agree Ellie, I completely appreciate what John and Marlena have been to each other.
Edited by hops, Oct 5 2008, 08:36 PM.
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Ellie


madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 08:35 PM
Quote:
 
That's so true. Where's the angst and the suspense?
exactly...which is why, for me at least, most of the J/M stories of the last few years have rung hollow. Their reunion is always a forgone conclusion and if that is going to be the case, fine, but the show needs to stop putting the characters in a position like that and come up with something else for them to do.
My point is that just as characters can act "in character", a relationship can be "in character". While of course characters can "lose" in the course of the story (to address your previous post), if the characters are behaving towards each other as if they had no history together, I don't think that's a well-written story. You might disagree. All of the J&M relationship stories over the past 22 years have been written with a certain underlying theme, which is that J&M have a special connection to each other. The stories themselves have varied, and the characters have absolutely had ups and downs within the stories. For example, 95-97. While the ending might have been a foregone conclusion, the story was imo very well-developed, and both characters went through very tough circumstances.

In other words, the writer should have an intended ending, and the audience should be so engaged in the story that they want that ending to happen. Some famous stories (not just J&M) have likely changed course midstream, but the talented writer will do this in such a way that the point of view of the story shifts as well, and the audience loyalty along with it.

As to LadyOftheLake's "where's the suspense" point, the suspense is within the story itself. A good soap story can last years and be full of cliffhangers and suspenseful moments. Since imo Dena Higley is not capable of writing one of these stories, the current J&M story has had virtually no suspense or angst, other than that provided by the actors.
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Ellie


hops
Oct 5 2008, 08:35 PM
I agree Ellie, I completely appreciate what John and Marlena have been to each other.
Thanks hops. Wish the writers did.
Edited by Ellie, Oct 5 2008, 09:07 PM.
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madelinehawaii


Ellie
Oct 5 2008, 08:56 PM
madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 08:35 PM
Quote:
 
That's so true. Where's the angst and the suspense?
exactly...which is why, for me at least, most of the J/M stories of the last few years have rung hollow. Their reunion is always a forgone conclusion and if that is going to be the case, fine, but the show needs to stop putting the characters in a position like that and come up with something else for them to do.
My point is that just as characters can act "in character", a relationship can be "in character". While of course characters can "lose" in the course of the story (to address your previous post), if the characters are behaving towards each other as if they had no history together, I don't think that's a well-written story. You might disagree. All of the J&M relationship stories over the past 22 years have been written with a certain underlying theme, which is that J&M have a special connection to each other. The stories themselves have varied, and the characters have absolutely had ups and downs within the stories. For example, 95-97. While the ending might have been a foregone conclusion, the story was imo very well-developed, and both characters went through very tough circumstances.

In other words, the writer should have an intended ending, and the audience should be so engaged in the story that they want that ending to happen. Some famous stories (not just J&M) have likely changed course midstream, but the talented writer will do this in such a way that the point of view of the story shifts as well, and the audience loyalty along with it.

As to LadyOftheLake's "where's the suspense" point, the suspense is within the story itself. A good soap story can last years and be full of cliffhangers and suspenseful moments. Since imo Dena Higley is not capable of writing one of these stories, the current J&M story has had virtually no suspense or angst, other than that provided by the
Knowing that the boy is eventually going to win over the girl by the end of a novel or a movie isn't the same as going to see the same boy win back the same girl in part fifteen of their romantic adventures where they face the same conflict over and over again with the same consequences.

And LadyoftheLake's point wasn't only suspense...it was suspense because there is angst and angst between two people torn apart for the umpteenth time isn't angst that is going to ring true anymore if they can't lose each other for more than six months or so, just like Jack and Jennifer falling off a cliff for the umpteenth time is no longer suspenseful when we know they're not going to die.

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Ellie


madelinehawaii
Oct 5 2008, 10:41 PM
Knowing that the boy is eventually going to win over the girl by the end of a novel or a movie isn't the same as going to see the same boy win back the same girl in part fifteen of their romantic adventures where they face the same conflict over and over again with the same consequences.

And LadyoftheLake's point wasn't only suspense...it was suspense because there is angst and angst between two people torn apart for the umpteenth time isn't angst that is going to ring true anymore if they can't lose each other for more than six months or so, just like Jack and Jennifer falling off a cliff for the umpteenth time is no longer suspenseful when we know they're not going to die.
Right, but I don't think this is "the same conflict over and over again" at all. The current J&M story is a very new twist on a classic relationship. That's part of the reason I'm so upset that the writers are imo completely missing the boat on this opportunity.
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