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OLTL: Carvilati Demoted or Fired?
Topic Started: Oct 12 2008, 05:31 PM (1,884 Views)
Steve Frame
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Sally Slice,

There is a big difference in the kind of talk you are mentioning and the talk that matters.

Yes people are discussing OLTL but they aren't watching. So it doesn't matter.

Yes people discussed Days serial killer storyline, and when a killing happened the ratings would jump and then fall back into a lull afterward until the next killing. They didn't stay consistent.

The old controversy stuff like you are talking about once was overlooked because it was sporadic. Something like Mikos Cassadine trying to freeze the world wasn't the norm. There were more socially relevant stories then than there were outlandish plots like that one.

But soon in the world of daytime soaps it wasn't that way. Back then the norms in daytime were cheating spouses, the former lover who shows up just as the couple finds happiness and stuff like that. the outlandish or the return from the dead were not the norm. In the first 30 years of daytime TV soap history you only found the outlandish on one soap - Dark Shadows. But that was what the show was about.

As all of that became a norm in soaps many people have been turned off by it.

That is why yes you find more people talking about things and not watching them.
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SallySlice
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I see your point Steve.
You are very smart.
But this is 2008 not 1965.
Soaps are not like that anynore.

But my point...not that it should matter at all,
is that I'M watching it.
And it sucks when I miss an episode.

So I could really careless if you (not you personally)
don't watch it.
I find OLTL wonderfully entertaining and I'm getting mine...LoL

That's all that really matters to me.
My happiness with OLTL.

Wow...I must have taken a double dose of my bitch pills...must be my new bangs.



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bellcurve
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Steve Frame
Oct 14 2008, 12:35 AM
I totally agree.

It is stories like this one along with Marlena's possession, the Reva clone story, the John Madden Fetus unabortion story, and others that have harmed daytime soaps more than anything else.

People used to laugh at soaps and considered them inferior to primetime shows but at least when pushed they had to admit that the stories that people like Agnes Nixon and William J. Bell did were good and often educated the public who brought honor to the genre.

Now they just laugh at soaps period.
Agreed Steve. Agreed.

Nixon and Bell did outlandish stories and characters, but they(as far as I know) never rewrote the rules of their own universe or insulted their fans with reinventions of histories and blatant ignorance of how sensitive a story could be with its fans.

Quote:
 
Mindless entertainment.

If your looking for true to life drama all the time
turn the channel to Discovery or CNN.


I don't know about you, but I wouldn't waste my time watching something that is completely mindless.

And I don't want soaps to turn into what GL has...a 34 minute long block of nothing, with people walking around in parks, wooded areas and empty bleachers having conversations about the weather over malted milks.

But is it TOO much to ask for soaps to be rooted into some form of realism or character observation? Or to simply not insult a show's fans again by resorting to the almighty cheap trick?

Quote:
 
When have soap operas ever had any street cred?
When there was only 3 channel choices?
The media has always looked at the soaps as low class television.
These shows probably will always be the black sheep of tv.
Sad, but true.
Crazy stories can't take all the blame for that.


We're not referring to street credentials per-se. I think what Steve and I are referring to are credibility with a show's fans first and foremost. This is exactly the reason soaps have suffered, because of daytime's identity crisis.

And the media may have looked at soaps as lower-tier of television, but the funny thing is that the money made from the daytime lineup used to be poured into the development of the primetime lineup.

Quote:
 
But this is 2008 not 1965.
Soaps are not like that anynore.

But my point...not that it should matter at all,
is that I'M watching it.
And it sucks when I miss an episode.


I'm glad someone is enjoying this. Because it repulses me to see Todd Manning in a romantic situation with his rape victim....three times over.

Was there no other way to bring Marty back to Llanview that would have generated a buzz? I mean, someone's goal as a writer of a show that is as complex and as rich as OLTL or AMC is to have one's history resonate with the audience without disrespecting it. The goal is to find any way other than a cheap trick to ignite interest in the audience. This is why fans of daytime prefer these types of shows, because they watched the character grow up or progress or get into the same old stuff again and again. But fans don't want to be insulted or have their stomach turn.

If you like a show for cheap entertainment value, great. But I don't think cheap entertainment in soaps or any form of scripted entertainment should be considered the gold standard.

Jeez, there's no way in hell shows like RYAN'S HOPE, AMC, or OLTL, as they were back then, would have survived today's climate.
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DrewHamilton
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SallySlice
Oct 14 2008, 10:55 AM
I see your point Steve.
You are very smart.
But this is 2008 not 1965.
Soaps are not like that anynore.

But my point...not that it should matter at all,
is that I'M watching it.
And it sucks when I miss an episode.

So I could really careless if you (not you personally)
don't watch it.
I find OLTL wonderfully entertaining and I'm getting mine...LoL

That's all that really matters to me.
My happiness with OLTL.

Wow...I must have taken a double dose of my bitch pills...must be my new bangs.



I agree completely. I turn on OLTL everyday and I'm entertained by the end of the episode. There really hasn't been an episode that I was bored with in such a long time, probably since the strike's been over. Carlivati just captivates me with his stories and he keeps me interested and entertained. I love his stories and right now, he's the best in daytime for me. All of the other shows I get bored with, although I'm just watching OLTL, Y&R and DAYS at the moment, sometimes B&B. But those other three come off as stale on some days. That's not the case with OLTL. It's always fresh to me.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Q Steph
Oct 12 2008, 05:40 PM
Rex and Gigi have been pushed so hard that it doesn't even make any sense. There should have been fallout over Shane's paternity.

I know a lot of people having been raving about Ron, but he's been horrible IMO. OLTL is such a bad cartoon and it's his fault. It had some initial promise but the camp took over.

Don't even get me started on Tarty.

Tessica is another messy plot. What was even the point of killing Nash?

Starr has been ruined for me. I hope they pair Langston and Cole together.

Tina and Marty were wasted in their returns.
My thoughts exactly.

I don't mind controversy but I do mind controversy that offends fans and this, to me, is doing that RIGHT NOW. If the payoff is good and actually ties back to history properly and doesn't involve anymore abuse toward Marty, then this story could be salvaged. I just feel it's too much right now and I don't even understand why Ron felt the need to go here.

Soaps have always done social issues stories considered controversial or other stories considered controversial. However, they were done in such a way that the subject matter was handled delicately and I don't feel this is. I can't help but feel Ron is justifying this because Howarth is no longer in the role and many current viewers never actually saw the rape and the aftermath happen. Like most things, it's subjective, I may be bothered but some aren't.

I'm taking a wait and see approach on every story right now. That is why I think getting rid of Ron would be a mistake. He can write. His stuff late last year and from May-June was very good. Not without it's flaws but very good. Something changed in late June and it hasn't been the same since. I just feel like it's alot of recycles stories and way too much camp. I also feel like characters are being dumbed down left and right. I don' mind plot-driven or camp but too much is not good. Having said that, I hope ABC takes a wait and see approach too because sometimes it takes a writer sometime to get into things and I do feel the anniversary veered OLTL off track a bit. I want to see how Ron handles the payoffs to the current stories. That will determine to me what should happen and, even then, if he doesn't handle those well, I would say get him a strong co-HW, someone to help him ground the show and keep it from becoming too campy or plot-driven. Someone whose strength is character-driven. That may work very well. If things fail after that, then oust him.

So, I say see what happens with the current stories first and then take action, starting with a co-HW and then possible firing if things don't improve.

I can see why ABC would be consider this though. Even when the show was getting overwhelmingly positive buzz, the ratings never budged and now things are worse so it wouldn't surprise me if ABC and Frons cuts the chord.
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Drew
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#bbuk

IHeartDRRick
Oct 14 2008, 11:23 AM

I'm glad someone is enjoying this. Because it repulses me to see Todd Manning in a romantic situation with his rape victim....three times over.
But by that reasoning, we wouldnt have had the phenomenon that was Luke and Laura.

Its all about how they tell the story, and I dont think OLTL is romanticising rape, or pushing this couple as an actual viable option. They're painting Todd in a very dark light, and once she gets her memory back there will be hell to pay for Todd.
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Steve Frame
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What people even forget with the Luke & Laura story is this Luke was in love with Laura and that is why he raped her. It was rape and I will always say that but the rape came out of his love or obsession for her.

Even with EJ there was a little bit of love for Sami at that point so even though it was still rape at least there was a little love.

But with Todd there was never any love. It was all about sex. And that is what makes this even more disgusting.

I was a critic of the Luke & Laura story as I was a big Scott & Laura fan. I was against EJ and Sami and I am against Todd and Marty even though I am not watching it right now.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Steve Frame
Oct 15 2008, 12:45 AM
What people even forget with the Luke & Laura story is this Luke was in love with Laura and that is why he raped her. It was rape and I will always say that but the rape came out of his love or obsession for her.

Even with EJ there was a little bit of love for Sami at that point so even though it was still rape at least there was a little love.

But with Todd there was never any love. It was all about sex. And that is what makes this even more disgusting.

I was a critic of the Luke & Laura story as I was a big Scott & Laura fan. I was against EJ and Sami and I am against Todd and Marty even though I am not watching it right now.
That is the point I always try to make Steve but I never seem to verbalize it well. Thanks for that. Right on point and exactly why I'm having trouble with this story.
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maryg23dz
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Steve Frame
Oct 15 2008, 12:45 AM
What people even forget with the Luke & Laura story is this Luke was in love with Laura and that is why he raped her. It was rape and I will always say that but the rape came out of his love or obsession for her.

Even with EJ there was a little bit of love for Sami at that point so even though it was still rape at least there was a little love.

But with Todd there was never any love. It was all about sex. And that is what makes this even more disgusting.

I was a critic of the Luke & Laura story as I was a big Scott & Laura fan. I was against EJ and Sami and I am against Todd and Marty even though I am not watching it right now.
Perfectly stated... Todd raping Marty wasn't just loss of control - it was planned and he encouraged two other guys to do the same. It was a completely different situation than Luke/Laura and even EJ/Sami. Tarty does not work... it's too much to watch Todd "rape" Marty again. I can't WAIT until Marty finds out and hurts Todd like he's never been before...

I can't believe Carlivati wrote this, but overall I've been ok with most of the storylines.
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Drew
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#bbuk

Steve Frame
Oct 15 2008, 12:45 AM
What people even forget with the Luke & Laura story is this Luke was in love with Laura and that is why he raped her. It was rape and I will always say that but the rape came out of his love or obsession for her.

Even with EJ there was a little bit of love for Sami at that point so even though it was still rape at least there was a little love.

But with Todd there was never any love. It was all about sex. And that is what makes this even more disgusting.

I was a critic of the Luke & Laura story as I was a big Scott & Laura fan. I was against EJ and Sami and I am against Todd and Marty even though I am not watching it right now.
i cant comment on the specifics of the Luke/Laura storyline, but Ejami? He forced her to have sex with him under the threat of death, and the death of her husband. Just as dispicable as what Todd did to Marty all those years ago
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Steve Frame
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You noticed I used the word "LITTLE BIT" when I described EJ's love. I totally agree with you it was violent, but it did grow out of his love for her no matter how despicable it was.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Never mind
Edited by ladyofthelake, Oct 16 2008, 09:51 PM.
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