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DAYS:Trent's killer is.....; UPDATED
Topic Started: Oct 23 2008, 01:36 AM (6,945 Views)
DrewHamilton
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PhoenixRising05
Oct 23 2008, 10:38 AM
I think your underestimating the viewer and treating them as dumb in a sense if you handle it that way. It's clear to the audience that something was up with Nick. The DUI showed that. The next day him drinking at the Pub in the morning, the day after a DUI, showed that. Sure, they didn't show popping a pill but they showed enough to show that Nick was not himself and that is just as well.
And if Nick turned out to be an alcoholic, then those scenes would've made sense. However, he's not an alcoholic. He's a pill addict, so we should've seen something in regards to that. People that drink are not addicts. They're not pain killer addicts. And that's how it sounds like you're trying to grasp at straws to have this make sense. And it doesn't.
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DrewHamilton
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Tripp
Oct 23 2008, 10:46 AM
Sorry Phoenix. I think it's a ball dropping event if they don't at least let us in on the fact he's even still taking medication. They could have used that to set him up to look more like a suspect (which I still think many would have shrugged as no one can comprehend Nick really killing anyone) or they coudl have made a couple of throwaway moments. Nick taking a pill in front of Chelsea way back when they talked at the pub about Melanie. It might also be interesting to see him take it and show that aggresive side when she mentioned Melanie but then I admit that might be too on the nose then.

I admit Nick has been acting strangely lately but the fact is we've not seen Nick for MONTHS and many viewers might not really know how Nick acts. Sure we have Hope, Chelsea and Melanie proclaming Nick's actions but if many of us are acting taken aback to this news about Nick, then they've missed a step.

I don't know, it's the exact opposite problem of Max who was shown acting strangely for weeks (months?) and then to lamely explain he's a genius instead of a jerk for altering Nick's formula which incidentally could be something else to have pushed NIck into this behavior.
ITA! We're definitely on the same page in regards to this story.
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Tripp
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Geekette

I just hope this goes well. It could turn into a good story, we won't know more until we see it. Though I'm pissed at the lack of setup Blake could be dynamite. But what scares me this could all go to hell in a handbasket too quickly and with this writer it's a significant worry. Real damage can be done to the Nick character and since he's my favorite makes me very nervous. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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esp13
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I have to agree with Drew and Tripp. It's bad storytelling not to do anything to set this up. As Drew said, nobody is talking about hitting us over the head with it, but just the simple things like showing Nick taking a pain pill once in a while. Or maybe even a reference to his pain medication when he got his DUI (mixing meds with alcohol). I don't think anybody would have seen that and immediately assumed Nick was the killer. I don't think it ruins the surprise at all. In fact, in my opinion, the surprise is damaged far more by the failure to set anything up properly than by anything else.

This smacks of yet another late made decision in this storyline. We already know that they changed everything dramatically and decided to kill Trent off. Now it sounds like they changed things again and are going down a road they never set up for. I'm not totally against it in that, if it's handled correctly it could still be quite good. But that doesn't mean the set-up wasn't blown.
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Simmi
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Mason
Oct 23 2008, 07:06 AM
WTF? Yeah, it's shocking, but only because this is so out of character for Nick (then again, character-driven storytelling has never been Higley's strong suit). Am I glad it's not Claude? Yeah. Doesn't mean I like this, though. It reminds me of when Ben Reade was revealed to be a serial killer on GL, and I HATED that.
i'm with mason here. this is not the nick i know. maybe it will give him some juicy scenes and something to do other than be chelsea's doormat, but a killer? give me a break.
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six
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I can't see him trying to pull Melanie into it either. He was so upset when Chelsea brought him into the mix after Ford was killed.

I am glad that DH was telling the truth when she said Nick had a big story line coming up, but I hope this won't end with him leaving the show.
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DrewHamilton
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esp13
Oct 23 2008, 11:02 AM
This smacks of yet another late made decision in this storyline. We already know that they changed everything dramatically and decided to kill Trent off. Now it sounds like they changed things again and are going down a road they never set up for. I'm not totally against it in that, if it's handled correctly it could still be quite good. But that doesn't mean the set-up wasn't blown.
I agree. I doubt Nick was intended to be the killer from the beginning. This probably all came together a few weeks ago, and the writers quickly drew up a story that they could pull off. Hence, why we never saw Nick with pills in the past few weeks. This wasn't planned at all. Any indication to Nick's pain addiction won't come until the week that we already know he's the killer. I'm sorry, but that's bad storytelling.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

I went back and looked at the scenes and it's a good thing I did because all it was is Chelsea telling Nick he is out of it and Nick acting all loopy saying it's the pain meds.

Again, I see both your points, Drew and Tripp. It's even hard for me to disagree with them. All I'm saying is I feel like it would still be giving away too much. I mean, Nick popping a pill once or twice? People would see where that's going. It's too random. Anytime on a soap you see that you think something is up since usually once a character is hospitalized and they leave the injury angle is dropped unless they are paralyzed or something. It would be a big red flag if the show did what your suggesting IMO. Just for the record...if your not trying to pull one over on the audience, which they are clearly trying to do by making Melanie look guilty as sin, I would never condone writing the story this way. However, the way they are doing this. I understand it and actually think it was the right thing to do. As I said, I hated how out of the blue the DUI was but now it makes sense because showing the buildup to that would pretty much clue the audience in that Nick could've done this. The show was relying on the fact that no one would believe he could've. Bo and Roman even acknowledged that point. I think they've shown enough to display Nick not being right. I mean, he yelled at Maggie and Hope in those DUI scenes. He was all over the place in those scenes. Irrational and irritable. I also feel like now is when the addiction story really will get going. I think the phase it's in now is nothing but simply relying on the pills but, now we will be seeing the walls closing in and that is when things will get going IMO.

Again, I can't really disagree. I guess I will just sum it up by saying I wouldn't object to it being told the way you both want it too but I feel like it would dilute the story and the impact of the reveal so I, personally, approve of this approach.
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DrewHamilton
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PhoenixRising05
Oct 23 2008, 11:07 AM
I went back and looked at the scenes and it's a good thing I did because all it was is Chelsea telling Nick he is out of it and Nick acting all loopy saying it's the pain meds.

Again, I see both your points, Drew and Tripp. It's even hard for me to disagree with them. All I'm saying is I feel like it would still be giving away too much. I mean, Nick popping a pill once or twice? People would see where that's going. It's too random. Anytime on a soap you see that you think something is up since usually once a character is hospitalized and they leave the injury angle is dropped unless they are paralyzed or something. It would be a big red flag if the show did what your suggesting IMO. Just for the record...if your not trying to pull one over on the audience, which they are clearly trying to do by making Melanie look guilty as sin, I would never condone writing the story this way. However, the way they are doing this. I understand it and actually think it was the right thing to do. As I said, I hated how out of the blue the DUI was but now it makes sense because showing the buildup to that would pretty much clue the audience in that Nick could've done this. The show was relying on the fact that no one would believe he could've. Bo and Roman even acknowledged that point. I think they've shown enough to display Nick not being right. I mean, he yelled at Maggie and Hope in those DUI scenes. He was all over the place in those scenes. Irrational and irritable. I also feel like now is when the addiction story really will get going. I think the phase it's in now is nothing but simply relying on the pills but, now we will be seeing the walls closing in and that is when things will get going IMO.

Again, I can't really disagree. I guess I will just sum it up by saying I wouldn't object to it being told the way you both want it too but I feel like it would dilute the story and the impact of the reveal so I, personally, approve of this approach.
But would they really assume that Nick was addicted to pain killers and that automatically meant he was the killer? No. I know I would have, of course, assumed that the writers could potentially be prepping for an addiction storyline for Nick, outside of the murder storyline. It would have never went through my head that Nick was under the influence and that's why he killed Trent. So no, that's not giving away too much. That's giving away too little, and missing beats of the story and now they're going to pay for it.

Wow. We're just going to have to disagree with your spin on this storyline because I do not see any of what you said making sense.

The storyline was poorly planned. They didn't decide to make Nick the killer until a few weeks ago, and that's why we saw no signs of Nick taking pain medication until the week that Nick's revealed as the killer. That's not how you tell a good story. There needs to be substantial build up and I'm sorry, we're not getting that.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

DrewHamilton
Oct 23 2008, 11:07 AM
esp13
Oct 23 2008, 11:02 AM
This smacks of yet another late made decision in this storyline. We already know that they changed everything dramatically and decided to kill Trent off. Now it sounds like they changed things again and are going down a road they never set up for. I'm not totally against it in that, if it's handled correctly it could still be quite good. But that doesn't mean the set-up wasn't blown.
I agree. I doubt Nick was intended to be the killer from the beginning. This probably all came together a few weeks ago, and the writers quickly drew up a story that they could pull off. Hence, why we never saw Nick with pills in the past few weeks. This wasn't planned at all. Any indication to Nick's pain addiction won't come until the week that we already know he's the killer. I'm sorry, but that's bad storytelling.
Oh, it was planned. That I can disagree with you on. Here's why:


-Bo and Roman mentioning Nick could no way be the killer. It wasn't in him.
-Nick slipping when brought to the station that Trent was dead because of him. His irrational behavior and being irritable.
-His changing his story about what happened to his hand.
-Drinking in the morning...I mean, who does that unless they are dealing with something horrible?
-Nick is the only suspect other then Nicole (whose final faceoff with Trent is finally shown next week) who has not flashed back to that night. I still remember that Monday episode before Trent died where Nick threatened Trent and Trent told him he would tell the university the truth about the prototype and we also had a scene later where Nick was sort of off in the shadows with that loud, drumming music playing as Trent walked off and Nick came out, clearly watching Trent. I mean, he would've been eliminated right away as a suspect had he not been intended to be the killer, He was probably the least expected so this had to have been planned. It's too shocking not to be.
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luvpumpkns
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i agree that the set up here is all wrong. other than the dui blip, nick has been acting normally. he doesn't seem like a pill addict. he has no slurred speech, no weird behavior....nothing that would indicate to me that this storyline was planned all along. i agree with others saying that this was either a last-minute decision, or poorly planned. as a viewer, i want little hints here and there that this is coming up--some guilty looks at melanie, a pill here or there, odd behavior--anything so that when the crap hits the fan, i can look back and say, "o yea, now nick's behavior makes sense."

for me, nick's behavior in the days before trent's murder isn't enough. they practically had every person in salem following trent around and glaring at him the night he died.

it doesn't bother me so much that he killed trent. what DOES irk me is the suggestion that he would foist his crime off on an innocent person. pills or no pills, i just can't see nick doing that.
Edited by luvpumpkns, Oct 23 2008, 11:18 AM.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

DrewHamilton
Oct 23 2008, 11:12 AM
PhoenixRising05
Oct 23 2008, 11:07 AM
I went back and looked at the scenes and it's a good thing I did because all it was is Chelsea telling Nick he is out of it and Nick acting all loopy saying it's the pain meds.

Again, I see both your points, Drew and Tripp. It's even hard for me to disagree with them. All I'm saying is I feel like it would still be giving away too much. I mean, Nick popping a pill once or twice? People would see where that's going. It's too random. Anytime on a soap you see that you think something is up since usually once a character is hospitalized and they leave the injury angle is dropped unless they are paralyzed or something. It would be a big red flag if the show did what your suggesting IMO. Just for the record...if your not trying to pull one over on the audience, which they are clearly trying to do by making Melanie look guilty as sin, I would never condone writing the story this way. However, the way they are doing this. I understand it and actually think it was the right thing to do. As I said, I hated how out of the blue the DUI was but now it makes sense because showing the buildup to that would pretty much clue the audience in that Nick could've done this. The show was relying on the fact that no one would believe he could've. Bo and Roman even acknowledged that point. I think they've shown enough to display Nick not being right. I mean, he yelled at Maggie and Hope in those DUI scenes. He was all over the place in those scenes. Irrational and irritable. I also feel like now is when the addiction story really will get going. I think the phase it's in now is nothing but simply relying on the pills but, now we will be seeing the walls closing in and that is when things will get going IMO.

Again, I can't really disagree. I guess I will just sum it up by saying I wouldn't object to it being told the way you both want it too but I feel like it would dilute the story and the impact of the reveal so I, personally, approve of this approach.
But would they really assume that Nick was addicted to pain killers and that automatically meant he was the killer? No. I know I would have, of course, assumed that the writers could potentially be prepping for an addiction storyline for Nick, outside of the murder storyline. It would have never went through my head that Nick was under the influence and that's why he killed Trent. So no, that's not giving away too much. That's giving away too little, and missing beats of the story and now they're going to pay for it.

Wow. We're just going to have to disagree with your spin on this storyline because I do not see any of what you said making sense.

The storyline was poorly planned. They didn't decide to make Nick the killer until a few weeks ago, and that's why we saw no signs of Nick taking pain medication until the week that Nick's revealed as the killer. That's not how you tell a good story. There needs to be substantial build up and I'm sorry, we're not getting that.
I just think it's too much. I think people are too intelligent not to notice how random that would be. Soaps just don't do things like that without a reason and given Nick is a suspect in a murder plot, people would put two and two together.

Again, I have no objections with going about the way you suggested but I do think your conceding the surprise factor a bit with that. More people would see it coming. They would say 'Hey, don't you think it's strange Nick was popping pills? Maybe that means something." Just a look around the board. People are too smart not to pick up on something like that. They would know it means something.
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Oct 23 2008, 11:25 AM.
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King
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Can Blake Berris leave this show?

I can't stand Nick! He is a little dweeb. I wish Trent killed him instead.
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esp13
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PhoenixRising05
Oct 23 2008, 11:14 AM
DrewHamilton
Oct 23 2008, 11:07 AM
esp13
Oct 23 2008, 11:02 AM
This smacks of yet another late made decision in this storyline. We already know that they changed everything dramatically and decided to kill Trent off. Now it sounds like they changed things again and are going down a road they never set up for. I'm not totally against it in that, if it's handled correctly it could still be quite good. But that doesn't mean the set-up wasn't blown.
I agree. I doubt Nick was intended to be the killer from the beginning. This probably all came together a few weeks ago, and the writers quickly drew up a story that they could pull off. Hence, why we never saw Nick with pills in the past few weeks. This wasn't planned at all. Any indication to Nick's pain addiction won't come until the week that we already know he's the killer. I'm sorry, but that's bad storytelling.
Oh, it was planned. That I can disagree with you on. Here's why:


-Bo and Roman mentioning Nick could no way be the killer. It wasn't in him.
-Nick slipping when brought to the station that Trent was dead because of him. His irrational behavior and being irritable.
-His changing his story about what happened to his hand.
-Drinking in the morning...I mean, who does that unless they are dealing with something horrible?
-Nick is the only suspect other then Nicole (whose final faceoff with Trent is finally shown next week) who has not flashed back to that night. I still remember that Monday episode before Trent died where Nick threatened Trent and Trent told him he would tell the university the truth about the prototype and we also had a scene later where Nick was sort of off in the shadows with that loud, drumming music playing as Trent walked off and Nick came out, clearly watching Trent. I mean, he would've been eliminated right away as a suspect had he not been intended to be the killer, He was probably the least expected so this had to have been planned. It's too shocking not to be.
Oh, I agree that Nick was planned to be on the "suspect list" but I don't agree that it was planned all along for Nick to be the killer and to have it be because of a painkiller addiction. The problem with the things you mention are that they are very generic and used whenever they want to keep the possible suspects list as long as possible. Plus, look at the focus on Nick drinking. If they had intended to write him as a painkiller addict, then why the focus on the alcohol? That's why this new twist smacks of a late game change to me. I think they wanted a few scenes that would make Nick look like a possible suspect so they wrote in the DUI, etc. Then they decided to go ahead and make him the killer and retconned the drug addiction to explain it. If they had really intended Nick to be the killer all along, we'd have seen him popping pills instead of drowning his sorrows (which we didn't actually see anyway).

And, I again agree with Drew that showing Nick taking painkillers would not have screamed "murderer" to me. I mean, showing him getting a DUI and drinking in the morning didn't do it, so why would the painkillers? If anything I'd have thought that they might be setting up a story for Nick outside the Trent Robbins stuff.
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Charmqn
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I thought they were going to get into a Mick/Chick triangle, if they go with this, maybe Chelsea is the only one that stands by Nick(with the murder and his painkiller addiction.)
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

esp13
Oct 23 2008, 11:31 AM
PhoenixRising05
Oct 23 2008, 11:14 AM
DrewHamilton
Oct 23 2008, 11:07 AM
esp13
Oct 23 2008, 11:02 AM
This smacks of yet another late made decision in this storyline. We already know that they changed everything dramatically and decided to kill Trent off. Now it sounds like they changed things again and are going down a road they never set up for. I'm not totally against it in that, if it's handled correctly it could still be quite good. But that doesn't mean the set-up wasn't blown.
I agree. I doubt Nick was intended to be the killer from the beginning. This probably all came together a few weeks ago, and the writers quickly drew up a story that they could pull off. Hence, why we never saw Nick with pills in the past few weeks. This wasn't planned at all. Any indication to Nick's pain addiction won't come until the week that we already know he's the killer. I'm sorry, but that's bad storytelling.
Oh, it was planned. That I can disagree with you on. Here's why:


-Bo and Roman mentioning Nick could no way be the killer. It wasn't in him.
-Nick slipping when brought to the station that Trent was dead because of him. His irrational behavior and being irritable.
-His changing his story about what happened to his hand.
-Drinking in the morning...I mean, who does that unless they are dealing with something horrible?
-Nick is the only suspect other then Nicole (whose final faceoff with Trent is finally shown next week) who has not flashed back to that night. I still remember that Monday episode before Trent died where Nick threatened Trent and Trent told him he would tell the university the truth about the prototype and we also had a scene later where Nick was sort of off in the shadows with that loud, drumming music playing as Trent walked off and Nick came out, clearly watching Trent. I mean, he would've been eliminated right away as a suspect had he not been intended to be the killer, He was probably the least expected so this had to have been planned. It's too shocking not to be.
Oh, I agree that Nick was planned to be on the "suspect list" but I don't agree that it was planned all along for Nick to be the killer and to have it be because of a painkiller addiction. The problem with the things you mention are that they are very generic and used whenever they want to keep the possible suspects list as long as possible. Plus, look at the focus on Nick drinking. If they had intended to write him as a painkiller addict, then why the focus on the alcohol? That's why this new twist smacks of a late game change to me. I think they wanted a few scenes that would make Nick look like a possible suspect so they wrote in the DUI, etc. Then they decided to go ahead and make him the killer and retconned the drug addiction to explain it. If they had really intended Nick to be the killer all along, we'd have seen him popping pills instead of drowning his sorrows (which we didn't actually see anyway).

And, I again agree with Drew that showing Nick taking painkillers would not have screamed "murderer" to me. I mean, showing him getting a DUI and drinking in the morning didn't do it, so why would the painkillers? If anything I'd have thought that they might be setting up a story for Nick outside the Trent Robbins stuff.
I think he did the heavy drinking because he ran out of pills. I've heard of addicts doing that. They need something else to help deal with the pain.

Yes, some of those are generic but when you consider who Nick is, alot of it sticks out. I mean, the DUI and his behavior is just too much to ignore IMO. That proves to me they planned this out.

I guess it's just up to the person. I mean, on one hand I can see the point of what is the harm of just having him taking a pill at the Pub as Melanie walks in or something but, on the other, I just think some fans would see that as too random not to mean something. I guess I can see it being ok only doing it once but if you did it twice, most would really suspect something. I don't mean to argue about this because I honestly see the other side of the issue and why some are upset. I guess I'm more or less arguing about the point that fans are smart and they would catch on to things like Nick popping pills once or twice. They would be able to see something coming out of that in my belief so that is more or less my point of contention.

My feeling is this is all the set up bigger story anyway. Trent's death has caused major ripple effects (Stax breakup for instance) and I think this is probably their way of developing Nick a bit and probably reuniting him and Chelsea as they need something big like that to draw them back together again.


Edited by PhoenixRising05, Oct 23 2008, 11:39 AM.
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Charmqn
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I could see him getting addicted right after getting shot..its believable....If they can do this right, I like to see where this goes too.
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DrewHamilton
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PhoenixRising05
Oct 23 2008, 11:18 AM
I just think it's too much. I think people are too intelligent not to notice how random that would be. Soaps just don't do things like that without a reason and given Nick is a suspect in a murder plot, people would put two and two together.

Again, I have no objections with going about the way you suggested but I do think your conceding the surprise factor a bit with that. More people would see it coming. They would say 'Hey, don't you think it's strange Nick was popping pills? Maybe that means something." Just a look around the board. People are too smart not to pick up on something like that. They would know it means something.
What do you mean random? He was shot! Of course he's going to need pain killers. What is strange about that? I don't see how you say that's random and strange. It's normal and realistic, is what it is. A simple scene at the beginning of an episode, a throw away scene of Nick taking the pills would have been fine. Here, I'll set it up for you, so you can see how easy and subtle it would be.

The episode starts in the pub and the room is crowded with customers. The camera pans back to Nick's table and we see that he's sitting alone. Nick winces in pain and grabs his side or his chest or his leg, wherever he was shot. I don't even remember because there are no indications of him being shot since he's been shot. He must be healed already. Who knows. Anyway, back to the scene. The pain is harsh for Nick so he goes into his bag and pulls out his pills and he takes one or 2, not 50, which, yes would make people think it was more seriosu than it is. Chelsea walks into the pub and notices Nick sitting at a table so she walks over to him, sees the pills and asks if he's still in pain. Nick says yes and they move onto a more importan conversation.

And in that scene, in no way, was it indicated that Nick's an addict, nor did it indicate that the pills control him so much that he would result to murdering Trent.

What that scene would have been would have been a scene for viewers to think back on and be like, wow the signs were there. Nick wasn't just taking a couple pills when he needed them. He was in pain 24/7 and taking the pills more than regularly and he's become addicted.

It would ahve actually made sense to see him taking the pills.

It's not hard at all.
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DrewHamilton
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esp13
Oct 23 2008, 11:31 AM
Oh, I agree that Nick was planned to be on the "suspect list" but I don't agree that it was planned all along for Nick to be the killer and to have it be because of a painkiller addiction. The problem with the things you mention are that they are very generic and used whenever they want to keep the possible suspects list as long as possible. Plus, look at the focus on Nick drinking. If they had intended to write him as a painkiller addict, then why the focus on the alcohol? That's why this new twist smacks of a late game change to me. I think they wanted a few scenes that would make Nick look like a possible suspect so they wrote in the DUI, etc. Then they decided to go ahead and make him the killer and retconned the drug addiction to explain it. If they had really intended Nick to be the killer all along, we'd have seen him popping pills instead of drowning his sorrows (which we didn't actually see anyway).

And, I again agree with Drew that showing Nick taking painkillers would not have screamed "murderer" to me. I mean, showing him getting a DUI and drinking in the morning didn't do it, so why would the painkillers? If anything I'd have thought that they might be setting up a story for Nick outside the Trent Robbins stuff.
I agree. A lot of those observations are very generic and could be used for any of the suspects. They are in no indication that Nick is an addict. That's what we're saying. The fact that Nick's the killer, yes, you could use those as proof that they may havfe planned for Nick to be the killer. However, this pain killer thing has completely come out of nowhere and that is what was just decided upon a few weeks ago.

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DrewHamilton
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PhoenixRising05
Oct 23 2008, 11:36 AM
I think he did the heavy drinking because he ran out of pills. I've heard of addicts doing that. They need something else to help deal with the pain.

Yes, some of those are generic but when you consider who Nick is, alot of it sticks out. I mean, the DUI and his behavior is just too much to ignore IMO. That proves to me they planned this out.

I guess it's just up to the person. I mean, on one hand I can see the point of what is the harm of just having him taking a pill at the Pub as Melanie walks in or something but, on the other, I just think some fans would see that as too random not to mean something. I guess I can see it being ok only doing it once but if you did it twice, most would really suspect something. I don't mean to argue about this because I honestly see the other side of the issue and why some are upset. I guess I'm more or less arguing about the point that fans are smart and they would catch on to things like Nick popping pills once or twice. They would be able to see something coming out of that in my belief so that is more or less my point of contention.
Okay. And we shouldn't just be thinking this and assuming it. It should be stated. And if the writers didn't want to throw it out there that Nick is turning to alcohol because he ran out of pills, then find another way to go about it. That DUI is nothing indicating that Nick is an addict. Nothing. And I'll never be convinced otherwise.

I don't undestand why you keep saying that the pill popping scenes would be random or raise a red flag. IT would be normal for those things to happen. That's what happens when you receive an injury like a gun shot. YOu take pain killers. IT's noraml. most wouldn't suspect anything, at least I don't think, considering many of the fans here wanted tos ee something like that. Fans are smart, but come on. If the show was showing NIck taking pills in every scene, then yes, the fans would be like okay something's up. However, what we're talking about happening, that would not have made fans think it was random or that something was up. It wouldn't ahve ruined the shcok value. It would have made sense!

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