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DAYS:Dena Higley blog 10/28
Topic Started: Oct 28 2008, 05:47 PM (5,288 Views)
luvpumpkns
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phoenix, thanks for that well-thought out post. i agree with you about the focus on appeasing fanbases. over the last decade, i've backed just about every losing horse of a couple there was, from kate and john, to brady and nicole and shawn and mimi, but i never cared when i lost because i was still invested in the overall quality of the show, and there was always something more to keep me hooked.

that being said, i've just been suffering from severe apathy the last two years. i find myself not caring who ej ends up with, because he's unrecognizable and unlikeable as a character. john and marlena's tension is unimportant because their story literally has no direction. it's like that storyline pops up when the front burner characters are on vacation. i love nick, but his current triangle with bitch 1 and bitch 2 is doze-worthy at best. all the other characters i care about seem only important in the context that they occasionally come on to support the so-called angst between these revolving couples. there's not a lot to like about the show right now, no matter if you're a rabid fan-girl or no.
Edited by luvpumpkns, Oct 29 2008, 07:49 PM.
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JohnandMarlenaFreak
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ges
Oct 29 2008, 07:16 PM
It's going to be a fun ride? I guess if you consider being tied to the back of a pick-up truck
and dragged through a gravel pit until you die, a fun ride.
This show is getting worse by the day and I wouldn't believe a word that came out of your mouth.

Your kid has the sniffles? I'll send you a box of tissues, you insane bitch.
ROFLMAO,True. :lol:
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Flying Monkey
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PhoenixRising05
Oct 29 2008, 01:01 AM
Ok...that is far from Dena's fault.

That shit began in the 90's and Corday made it worse by constantly catering to them. The fact that this show has to constantly assure fanbases in every God damn long-term preview or every now and then in articles, blogs, whatever speaks to the fanabse problem Days and all of daytime has. Again, I'm generalizing and not saying every fanbase or every person in one is the problem. Just in general.

I don't blame Dena for this at all. She is probably told to do that in any interview she gives. The fanbase issue is both TPTB's fault and the fanbases fault. Corday created an environment that has Days living and dying by fanbases so he is in constant fear of pissing off even one fanabse, no matter how minimal. That is why the show spends more time worrying about throwing each and every fanbase a bone instead of focusing on telling stories. My hope is that someone gets into Corday's head and tells him this...

ENOUGH WITH THE FRICKING FICKLE AS HELL FANBASES CONTROLLING THIS GOD DAMN FUCKING SHOW!!!

Seriously, I blame the internet big time for this. Spoilers, message boards...everything. If we had all this in the 90's, I can guarantee people would be pulling the same shit then too. It's insane. I just hope the show realizes it's all about the stories and that this is an ensemble. The ratings are what they are. Nothing will change them. The show just needs to focus on keeping the audience it has. More Steve/Kayla/Bo/Hope/John/Marlena/etc won't do jack to the ratings without good stories. It doesn't matter who the good stories go to. Just tell good stories. Thankfully, the show has direction now. Dena seems excited here and that is a very good sign. She seems to like both Gary and Chris and all sounds well. That is promising. When everyone is in sync with each other, it shows. The show has responded. Demos are up. Overall numbers are back up. The show has actual stories again and it's not relying on one group (vet, young cast, etc). The vets were big earlier this year and now it's time for the others to shine (of course, contracts have alot to do with it too). Around December, I expect to see the vets more but it's not about one group. It's about the whole show and what is best for it. Everyone deserves time to shine.

I'm with King. I see no problem with this blog. I like it, especially this, which I feel is her best entry. Everyone wanted her to talk about the show. She does so here right off the bat. If you don't want to hear about her family, don't read it. That's all. Just skim the entry and read what you want. Blogs are for personal stuff too and part of the purpose is for us to get to know her. I'm interested in it. If some aren't, that's fine but some are.

I really hope the show gives Sami/Rafe a chance. Like Mason. I'm really annoyed she threw that bone to the Ejami fans. I don;t blame her for it (this goes back to my rant further above) but I just hate that the show feels it has to do that to prevent fans from bolting. Just tell stories and let people decide to stay around. If they don't, try to pick up some other fans to off set the losses. That's all. I just hate when Corday and co hint at who is endgame. It ruins investment in the story. I just hope the show allows for EJ/Nicole and Sami/Rafe to explore things before settling on Ej/Sami.
What “shit” began in the ‘90’s? If you’re referring to Days actually listening and caring about what the audience thinks and wants then you definitely need to scratch the younger Corday off that list. Since his mother passed in ’87 he’s been following his own agendas and the steady decline in ratings reflects that. However the show’s creator Ted Corday firmly believed in reading fan mail and paying attention to magazine letters and polls and listening to incoming calls to the studio. The show was wildly successful, consistently coming in second, just behind Y&R. So your theory just doesn’t hold water.

Corday isn't in fear of pissing off fan bases. He's been pissing on and pissing off fan bases for years now, causing a large portion of the audience to run for the hills and not look back. He gets his rocks off doing it.

I'm interested to know who you think the "fickle fan bases" are? I have a list but I'm sure it's radically different from your. Fans who've stuck around for twenty (plus) years could not even remotedly be considered "fickle".

You certainly like to lay the blame at the feet of the fans while absolving those actually in charge.

Ensemble doesn't mean that all the characters are featured front and center. It simply means a joint peformance, with leading and supporting characters.

The ratings aren't up, they've remained about the same with only a very slight fluxation, which has happened before so that's nothing to get excited about. Where are these "actual stories"? I can't find them. Just plots that begin, go nowhere and are dropped. Which is not the most effective way of drawing in an audience and keeping it.

Corday's constant need to reassure fans is because he's a big, fat liar and he knows it. He desperately wants to hang on to those viewers and so will promise them everything under the sun while never intending to deliver on any of it. He just keeps them hanging on, classic user behavior.

AS for Higley's blog, it isn't her personal blog. It is endorsed by Days and therefore should be about the show. If she wants to talk about her family then she should start her own blog and save this one for Days discussion. I don’t want to get to know Higley, all I want from her is good writing.
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Flying Monkey
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ges
Oct 29 2008, 07:16 PM
It's going to be a fun ride? I guess if you consider being tied to the back of a pick-up truck
and dragged through a gravel pit until you die, a fun ride.
This show is getting worse by the day and I wouldn't believe a word that came out of your mouth.

Your kid has the sniffles? I'll send you a box of tissues, you insane bitch.
Lmao! Too true, too true!
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Mason
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Flying Monkey
Oct 29 2008, 08:33 PM
AS for Higley's blog, it isn't her personal blog. It is endorsed by Days and therefore should be about the show. If she wants to talk about her family then she should start her own blog and save this one for Days discussion. I don’t want to get to know Higley, all I want from her is good writing.
Aaaaa-to-the-friggen-MEN!
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

I wasn't going to respond because we've been down this road before (and you only seem to appear when discussions like this surface) but I figured I should respond.

Quote:
 
What “shit” began in the ‘90’s? If you’re referring to Days actually listening and caring about what the audience thinks and wants then you definitely need to scratch the younger Corday off that list. Since his mother passed in ’87 he’s been following his own agendas and the steady decline in ratings reflects that. However the show’s creator Ted Corday firmly believed in reading fan mail and paying attention to magazine letters and polls and listening to incoming calls to the studio. The show was wildly successful, consistently coming in second, just behind Y&R. So your theory just doesn’t hold water.


The "shit" I'm referring too is what goes on now. The constant picking apart of everything. The sense of "entitlement" I talked about, among other things. My point is that if the Internet was around and everything was the way it was now in the 90's, everything back then would've never been looked at as great as it is now. Why? Because fans would know more. Fans would have the Internet and the same issues that exist now would exist then. I look back on that era now and find alot wrong with it that I didn't the first time. Why? Because I know more. Thanks to the internet and other sources. I look at things through a more critical eye rather then just getting lost in the entertainment of it all.

Now I'm not a fan of Corday. I can't stand him and his constant interference but even I can admit he did nothing wrong in the 90's. He stayed out of it. He had to. Langan and Reilly had a nice working relationship and the show was up in ratings in a time when other soaps had difficulty doing that. Not sure why you are bringing up Ted Corday. Ken has control at the time you mentioned and while ratings were down for the late 80's and early on in the 90's but fans loved the show (afterall, that was during the supercouple era). He also oversaw the great ratings upturn of the 90's and he also was the one who promoted B&C, who helped bring the numbers up and bring the show critical and fan acclaim after Langan's reign. He has done more wrong then right in the past ten years but before that it was the other way around for the most part. So, you really didn't refute my theory. I'm talking about what happened after JER left. From 1998 and on is what I'm talking about. All the dropped stories and all the changing of gears over the past decade, especially in the last 5 years. I mean, how can it be disputed that Corday listened to fans when Zack's paternity was completely re-wrote because J&M and Bope fans were upset despite how much dramatic potential the story had. That is just one example. What about Jate, John/Ava, Hope/Patrick, Steve/Billie and his brainwashing story, etc? Now, I'm not saying those stories wou;would've been successful if they were allowed to continue and they are not the only examples. They are just the ones off the top of my head. The issue is they were never given a chance because the show panicked due to fanbase response and dropped it. It's all part of a trend that has only gotten worse in the past few years where the show doesn't stick with anything because it panics everytime a fanbase gets upset. It all goes back to the mentality of trying to please everyone, which is impossible.

Quote:
 
I'm interested to know who you think the "fickle fan bases" are? I have a list but I'm sure it's radically different from your. Fans who've stuck around for twenty (plus) years could not even remotedly be considered "fickle".

You certainly like to lay the blame at the feet of the fans while absolving those actually in charge.


First off, again look back at my posts. Again, I'm not saying that EVERY fanbase or person in them is all bad. I'm not saying that at all and, as I said, TPTB are primarily to blame as they created alot of this mess. I'm not going to point the finger at any particular fanbase. That isn't right. Also, I should say most fans are fickle in general nowadays. Even I am LOL. My point is the fanbase issue IN GENERAL has grown into a massive problem.

Quote:
 
Ensemble doesn't mean that all the characters are featured front and center. It simply means a joint peformance, with leading and supporting characters.

The ratings aren't up, they've remained about the same with only a very slight fluxation, which has happened before so that's nothing to get excited about. Where are these "actual stories"? I can't find them. Just plots that begin, go nowhere and are dropped. Which is not the most effective way of drawing in an audience and keeping it.


Again, your reflecting the mentality that it's all about a few characters for the show and not about balance. Any character can be given lead material and I believe everyone should have their turn in the spotlight. Of course, some should be in the spotlight more but limiting certain characters to lead or supporting is IMO disrespectful to fans of those characters and the actors that play them. Soaps are ensembles, meaning no one character or characters are more important, just like no one fanbase or fan is more important then the other. Of course, I'm one who believes the show needed to pass the torch and stop relying on the same couples years ago, just like it did in the 80's when couples like Doug and Julie were pushed to the background for the couples who are big today. As I often ask, how do you think those fans felt having their couples pushed to the back for characters who were "newbies?"

As for the ratings, they are what they are so any increase, particularly in demos which are all the rage again it seems, is positive. Your not going to see soaps back where they were so what Days is doing is a success, if only a minimal one. I agree the stories lacked direction in spring and summer but now? Nope. The double pregnancy drama has direction. Kate's story has direction. The Trent murder story has direction. Again, still work to be done but alot better then where the show was a few months ago. I feel alot of what your saying is dictated by what characters are on the frontburner right now, which is fine. I can understand that reasoning. Oh, and back to stories being dropped and lacking direction, alot of that was Higley/Scott backstage related but, as I said, that goes back to Corday panicking too much.

Quote:
 
Corday's constant need to reassure fans is because he's a big, fat liar and he knows it. He desperately wants to hang on to those viewers and so will promise them everything under the sun while never intending to deliver on any of it. He just keeps them hanging on, classic user behavior.


Well, I won't deny he's a liar but the constant need to reassure fans is because he worries about losing any fan or fanbase. I think I've made the statement enough in my posts as to my thinking on why he does that and I wish he wouldn't. Talk about making it hard to invest. Giving away the endgame of a story. Now that is dumb.

I won't quote you on this but as for Higley's blog, I understand what you and others are saying but if you don't like that aspect of her blog, just skip it. I mean, if you just skim it and pick out the parts that interest you, there wouldn't be an issue. I see this as no different then actors who have personal blogs, particularly actors who have blogs on NBC's site. Ali Sweeney, James Scott, and Deidre Hall all have blogs on that site. Stephen Nichols once did. They all wrote more about their personal lives then they did topics that were show-related. Everyone in the business who has a blog does that. They can't give away things in the blog. They have to be careful. Dena probably is told what she can and can't say and she seems to be listening in that she is talking a bit about the show. Part of the purpose is for us to get to know her, just like the actors want us to get to know them via their blogs. It forms a connection. If your not interested, that is fine but that is one of the purposes of her blog and she can't spill too much about the show so she has to write about something. I will agree she could focus a bit on how she writes and the process she goes through. That would be nice to see but, other then that, she can't really give out spoilers or too many specifics.

Edited by PhoenixRising05, Oct 30 2008, 12:10 AM.
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Mason
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Oh, yes, we have to remember, part of the reason she was given the blog in the first place was to soften her image after the shit she pulled during the strike. So of course, she wants to come out looking all Betty Crocker in her blog, LoL.
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jcar03
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PhoenixRising05
Oct 30 2008, 12:10 AM
I wasn't going to respond because we've been down this road before (and you only seem to appear when discussions like this surface) but I figured I should respond.

Quote:
 
What “shit” began in the ‘90’s? If you’re referring to Days actually listening and caring about what the audience thinks and wants then you definitely need to scratch the younger Corday off that list. Since his mother passed in ’87 he’s been following his own agendas and the steady decline in ratings reflects that. However the show’s creator Ted Corday firmly believed in reading fan mail and paying attention to magazine letters and polls and listening to incoming calls to the studio. The show was wildly successful, consistently coming in second, just behind Y&R. So your theory just doesn’t hold water.


The "shit" I'm referring too is what goes on now. The constant picking apart of everything. The sense of "entitlement" I talked about, among other things. My point is that if the Internet was around and everything was the way it was now in the 90's, everything back then would've never been looked at as great as it is now. Why? Because fans would know more. Fans would have the Internet and the same issues that exist now would exist then. I look back on that era now and find alot wrong with it that I didn't the first time. Why? Because I know more. Thanks to the internet and other sources. I look at things through a more critical eye rather then just getting lost in the entertainment of it all.

Now I'm not a fan of Corday. I can't stand him and his constant interference but even I can admit he did nothing wrong in the 90's. He stayed out of it. He had to. Langan and Reilly had a nice working relationship and the show was up in ratings in a time when other soaps had difficulty doing that. Not sure why you are bringing up Ted Corday. Ken has control at the time you mentioned and while ratings were down for the late 80's and early on in the 90's but fans loved the show (afterall, that was during the supercouple era). He also oversaw the great ratings upturn of the 90's and he also was the one who promoted B&C, who helped bring the numbers up and bring the show critical and fan acclaim after Langan's reign. He has done more wrong then right in the past ten years but before that it was the other way around for the most part. So, you really didn't refute my theory. I'm talking about what happened after JER left. From 1998 and on is what I'm talking about. All the dropped stories and all the changing of gears over the past decade, especially in the last 5 years. I mean, how can it be disputed that Corday listened to fans when Zack's paternity was completely re-wrote because J&M and Bope fans were upset despite how much dramatic potential the story had. That is just one example. What about Jate, John/Ava, Hope/Patrick, Steve/Billie and his brainwashing story, etc? Now, I'm not saying those stories wou;would've been successful if they were allowed to continue and they are not the only examples. They are just the ones off the top of my head. The issue is they were never given a chance because the show panicked due to fanbase response and dropped it. It's all part of a trend that has only gotten worse in the past few years where the show doesn't stick with anything because it panics everytime a fanbase gets upset. It all goes back to the mentality of trying to please everyone, which is impossible.
This is the part I can't figure out either. Ted Corday died within a year or so of the shows debut in 1965 LONG before Y&R ever premiered in 1973 so him reading fan mail and having the show consistently coming in second behind Y&R didn't happen until the 90's when Ken was already in charge. Y&R's big run at #1 started in the late 80's. Also I don't think there were any big soap magazines in the 60's. I think Soap Opera Digest started in the late 70's or Early 80's.
Edited by jcar03, Oct 30 2008, 12:23 AM.
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phloeishot
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Quote:
 
I admit that I am not likely to ever be a fan of EJami, but that aside, why does that pairing get a special call out? Thank you Dena you just demonstrated alot that is wrong with soaps these days.The only reason that I could think of is that EJAMI fans seem to be the most vocal. I think that it has become a very big fan base .... going to a soap event proves that Ejami fans are there in large numbers. Plus the show does do marketing research they know which couple is the most popular at the moment.


Exactly. When your fanbase complains about the lack of story for their couple and campaigns, it gets attention from the producers and writers.

One example, un-DOOL related, is with Grey's Anatomy. Fans of Meredith & Derek or MerDer, were upset about last season and how they still weren't together. The ratings started to drop as their fans started tuning out. They also complained & campaigned.

In a recent interview about this season one of the producers made it a point to say the MerDer (yes, that is what she called them in the interview) would be together this season.

So like it or not couple fanbases are important to the success of these shows, especially when the audience has so many other choices as far as programs to watch.
Edited by phloeishot, Oct 30 2008, 12:38 AM.
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jcar03
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The problem is its daytime and there are TOO MANY fanbases to attempt to please them all. Grey's Anatomy lacked in quality as well which I think had more to do with people tuning out then the merry go around of Meredith and Derek.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

jcar03
Oct 30 2008, 12:22 AM
PhoenixRising05
Oct 30 2008, 12:10 AM
I wasn't going to respond because we've been down this road before (and you only seem to appear when discussions like this surface) but I figured I should respond.

Quote:
 
What “shit” began in the ‘90’s? If you’re referring to Days actually listening and caring about what the audience thinks and wants then you definitely need to scratch the younger Corday off that list. Since his mother passed in ’87 he’s been following his own agendas and the steady decline in ratings reflects that. However the show’s creator Ted Corday firmly believed in reading fan mail and paying attention to magazine letters and polls and listening to incoming calls to the studio. The show was wildly successful, consistently coming in second, just behind Y&R. So your theory just doesn’t hold water.


The "shit" I'm referring too is what goes on now. The constant picking apart of everything. The sense of "entitlement" I talked about, among other things. My point is that if the Internet was around and everything was the way it was now in the 90's, everything back then would've never been looked at as great as it is now. Why? Because fans would know more. Fans would have the Internet and the same issues that exist now would exist then. I look back on that era now and find alot wrong with it that I didn't the first time. Why? Because I know more. Thanks to the internet and other sources. I look at things through a more critical eye rather then just getting lost in the entertainment of it all.

Now I'm not a fan of Corday. I can't stand him and his constant interference but even I can admit he did nothing wrong in the 90's. He stayed out of it. He had to. Langan and Reilly had a nice working relationship and the show was up in ratings in a time when other soaps had difficulty doing that. Not sure why you are bringing up Ted Corday. Ken has control at the time you mentioned and while ratings were down for the late 80's and early on in the 90's but fans loved the show (afterall, that was during the supercouple era). He also oversaw the great ratings upturn of the 90's and he also was the one who promoted B&C, who helped bring the numbers up and bring the show critical and fan acclaim after Langan's reign. He has done more wrong then right in the past ten years but before that it was the other way around for the most part. So, you really didn't refute my theory. I'm talking about what happened after JER left. From 1998 and on is what I'm talking about. All the dropped stories and all the changing of gears over the past decade, especially in the last 5 years. I mean, how can it be disputed that Corday listened to fans when Zack's paternity was completely re-wrote because J&M and Bope fans were upset despite how much dramatic potential the story had. That is just one example. What about Jate, John/Ava, Hope/Patrick, Steve/Billie and his brainwashing story, etc? Now, I'm not saying those stories wou;would've been successful if they were allowed to continue and they are not the only examples. They are just the ones off the top of my head. The issue is they were never given a chance because the show panicked due to fanbase response and dropped it. It's all part of a trend that has only gotten worse in the past few years where the show doesn't stick with anything because it panics everytime a fanbase gets upset. It all goes back to the mentality of trying to please everyone, which is impossible.
This is the part I can't figure out either. Ted Corday died within a year or so of the shows debut in 1965 LONG before Y&R ever premiered in 1973 so him reading fan mail and having the show consistently coming in second behind Y&R didn't happen until the 90's when Ken was already in charge. Y&R's big run at #1 started in the late 80's. Also I don't think there were any big soap magazines in the 60's. I think Soap Opera Digest started in the late 70's or Early 80's.
That confused me too.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

jcar03
Oct 30 2008, 12:38 AM
The problem is its daytime and there are TOO MANY fanbases to attempt to please them all. Grey's Anatomy lacked in quality as well which I think had more to do with people tuning out then the merry go around of Meredith and Derek.
Exactly.

People are misunderstanding. I'm not saying not to speak up or try to get your voice heard. I'm merely saying people have to understand they won't always get their way. It's impossible to please everyone and someone has to lose. Not everyone will walk away happy and TPTB and fans need to understand that. There is much I wanted that I never got as a fan but it wasn't the end all be all for me. Now that is ME. I totally understand that some may choose not to watch if they don't get what they want and that is their right.

Fans in general need to see the whole picture and need to understand that their own self-interests are no more important then the interests of others. The sense of entitlement needs to go. It should be about what is good for the show as a WHOLE. It should be about the stories. It can't be about just certain fanbases or one fanbase or whatever. It needs to be about putting out a show that pleases as many people as possible and produces quality drama and storylines.
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jane1978


Mason
Oct 29 2008, 05:53 PM
Honestly, I really don't give a flying crap that there's no more "backstage tension". Higley was still there for all the crap of the spring and summer, and I don't believe she was just sitting idly by, twiddling her fingers. Higley was boring in 2003 when Wyman was Co-EP. She was boring when Ed Scott was Co-EP. And she's still boring now that Tomlin is Co-EP. She's the common denominator in all of this, and if Corday were really serious about making the show better, he would have given Higley her walking papers a long time ago. Or better yet, never given her the HW job a second time to begin with.
Ok, seriously, you are not watching the show. How you can know it´s boring? Just because it´s not fronting characters you like?

People like you are huge part of problem because you will never allow the show to evolve or move on. For example, you never saw even one scene with Melanie yet you are already want her gone. Why? Just because she is new? So the show cannot have any new characters? Any new couples?

It´s like some fans are literally stuck in time.
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ges
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JohnandMarlenaFreak
Oct 29 2008, 07:59 PM
ges
Oct 29 2008, 07:16 PM
It's going to be a fun ride? I guess if you consider being tied to the back of a pick-up truck
and dragged through a gravel pit until you die, a fun ride.
This show is getting worse by the day and I wouldn't believe a word that came out of your mouth.

Your kid has the sniffles? I'll send you a box of tissues, you insane bitch.
ROFLMAO,True. :lol:
:cheers:
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ges
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Posted Image



Higley's blog is about as interesting as those Christmas chain letters you get.


Here, put these on and get lost. Posted Image

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Sindacco
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phloeishot
Oct 30 2008, 12:35 AM
Quote:
 
I admit that I am not likely to ever be a fan of EJami, but that aside, why does that pairing get a special call out? Thank you Dena you just demonstrated alot that is wrong with soaps these days.The only reason that I could think of is that EJAMI fans seem to be the most vocal. I think that it has become a very big fan base .... going to a soap event proves that Ejami fans are there in large numbers. Plus the show does do marketing research they know which couple is the most popular at the moment.


Exactly. When your fanbase complains about the lack of story for their couple and campaigns, it gets attention from the producers and writers.

One example, un-DOOL related, is with Grey's Anatomy. Fans of Meredith & Derek or MerDer, were upset about last season and how they still weren't together. The ratings started to drop as their fans started tuning out. They also complained & campaigned.

In a recent interview about this season one of the producers made it a point to say the MerDer (yes, that is what she called them in the interview) would be together this season.

So like it or not couple fanbases are important to the success of these shows, especially when the audience has so many other choices as far as programs to watch.
Why are you comparing to primetime? Well since you are I can do the same, on LOST they have killed off several major characters but I haven't complained or quit watching because the show is still good. It's the same on Days, if the stories were good I would continue to watch even when my favorites aren't on. I have in the past and I can again.
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Flying Monkey
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PhoenixRising05
Oct 30 2008, 12:10 AM
I wasn't going to respond because we've been down this road before (and you only seem to appear when discussions like this surface) but I figured I should respond.



I appear elsewhere you just haven’t noticed. Am I required to make a certain number of posts or types of posts before I can disagree with someone and state an opposing view?

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The "shit" I'm referring too is what goes on now. The constant picking apart of everything. The sense of "entitlement" I talked about, among other things. My point is that if the Internet was around and everything was the way it was now in the 90's, everything back then would've never been looked at as great as it is now. Why? Because fans would know more. Fans would have the Internet and the same issues that exist now would exist then. I look back on that era now and find alot wrong with it that I didn't the first time. Why? Because I know more. Thanks to the internet and other sources. I look at things through a more critical eye rather then just getting lost in the entertainment of it all.


Well I’ve been lurking around the net since around ’95 and reading the mags since the early ‘80’s (since R&M ushered in the supercouple era) and guess what, people complained and people picked the show apart then too. The difference between then and now is that there wasn’t nearly as much to pick at, unlike today. The fans don’t have to know more than what they see on their screens to make up their minds about things. What is it that you know now that you didn’t know then that’s change your opinion of the era? I can’t fathom what you could have possibly discovered that would make you change your mind so long after the fact. You say you look at things with a more critical eye then why do you continually complain when people pick things apart with a critical eye?

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Now I'm not a fan of Corday. I can't stand him and his constant interference but even I can admit he did nothing wrong in the 90's. He stayed out of it. He had to. Langan and Reilly had a nice working relationship and the show was up in ratings in a time when other soaps had difficulty doing that. Not sure why you are bringing up Ted Corday. Ken has control at the time you mentioned and while ratings were down for the late 80's and early on in the 90's but fans loved the show (afterall, that was during the supercouple era).


You’re right he stayed out of things during the late '80's and early ‘90’s, but he most certainly didn’t have to. Things were running smoothly and so Ken could kick back and rake in the money without having to do anything. It wasn’t until Reilly quit that Corday was forced to take an active hand in the show and that’s when it all began to unravel.

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He also oversaw the great ratings upturn of the 90's and he also was the one who promoted B&C, who helped bring the numbers up and bring the show critical and fan acclaim after Langan's reign. He has done more wrong then right in the past ten years but before that it was the other way around for the most part.


There was no “great ratings upturn” of the ‘90’s. The ratings stayed pretty consistent throughout all of the ‘90’s. Same with B&C’s tenure, the ratings did not go up, they went down a little and then were consistent. Funny I don’t remember critical or fan acclaim for their year at the helm, if the critics and the fans were so enamored with them then why were they fired. And I won't accept that a handful of rabid fans pulled that one off.

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So, you really didn't refute my theory. I'm talking about what happened after JER left. From 1998 and on is what I'm talking about. All the dropped stories and all the changing of gears over the past decade, especially in the last 5 years. I mean, how can it be disputed that Corday listened to fans when Zack's paternity was completely re-wrote because J&M and Bope fans were upset despite how much dramatic potential the story had.


Okay, we’ll use this time frame now. Days certainly didn’t start then stop Jope. That story began just as Reilly was on his way out and lasted for nearly four years. So let me see if I have this straight. For four torturous years J&M fans and Bope fans just sat idly by while all this transpired without a word. Then on a whim they decide to up and complain about Zack’s paternity and were immediately heard and suddenly catered to. Um, I don’t think so. That was simply a case of a new head writer realizing and trying to right a wrong. If Days listened to and catered to those fans you mention then Jope would have ended as soon as it was begun and would not have dragged on for four years.

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That is just one example. What about Jate, John/Ava, Hope/Patrick, Steve/Billie and his brainwashing story, etc? Now, I'm not saying those stories wou;would've been successful if they were allowed to continue and they are not the only examples. They are just the ones off the top of my head. The issue is they were never given a chance because the show panicked due to fanbase response and dropped it. It's all part of a trend that has only gotten worse in the past few years where the show doesn't stick with anything because it panics everytime a fanbase gets upset. It all goes back to the mentality of trying to please everyone, which is impossible.


If Days were so easily spooked by fan base reaction they would never have attempted those stories in the first place. You don’t know that those stories were stopped by fan base response. The more likely culprit in all of this are the writers themselves and their inability to plot and carry out a storyline start to finish. Trying to please everyone is a fairly recent development and isn’t that something you’re constantly going on about? Giving everyone their chance in the spotlight, they’re chance to “shine”? No matter how or insignificant or unpopular the character is with the majority of the audience?

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First off, again look back at my posts. Again, I'm not saying that EVERY fanbase or person in them is all bad. I'm not saying that at all and, as I said, TPTB are primarily to blame as they created alot of this mess. I'm not going to point the finger at any particular fanbase. That isn't right. Also, I should say most fans are fickle in general nowadays. Even I am LOL. My point is the fanbase issue IN GENERAL has grown into a massive problem.


I merely asked a question about the veiled statement that you made. You do say that the TBTP are to blame for listening to and catering to fan bases, ultimately making said fan bases the bad guy in all this. I think the reverse is true, TPTB are to blame for not listening to and attempting to cater to the majority of the fans.

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Again, your reflecting the mentality that it's all about a few characters for the show and not about balance. Any character can be given lead material and I believe everyone should have their turn in the spotlight. Of course, some should be in the spotlight more but limiting certain characters to lead or supporting is IMO disrespectful to fans of those characters and the actors that play them.


Again, you’re reflecting the mentality that this is like little league where everyone gets the chance to play. Trying to please everyone rather than the majority, the very thing you claim is ruining the show. I don’t consider it being disrespectful in the least especially since I am a fan of several supporting characters. It’s simply a reality.

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Soaps are ensembles, meaning no one character or characters are more important, just like no one fanbase or fan is more important then the other. Of course, I'm one who believes the show needed to pass the torch and stop relying on the same couples years ago, just like it did in the 80's when couples like Doug and Julie were pushed to the background for the couples who are big today. As I often ask, how do you think those fans felt having their couples pushed to the back for characters who were "newbies?"


That sounds to me like more of the “trying to please everyone” mentality again. Besides ensemble meaning a united group performance it also means a cast other than the principals. In case you haven’t noticed Days has been “passing the torch” for close to ten years now, starting with the Langan era and that’s is primarily the reason the show is where it is today. When Doug and Julie were pushed into the background, the fans didn’t seem to mind (myself included) unlike the fans of “other couples” who do mind, very much (again myself included).

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As for the ratings, they are what they are so any increase, particularly in demos which are all the rage again it seems, is positive. Your not going to see soaps back where they were so what Days is doing is a success, if only a minimal one. I agree the stories lacked direction in spring and summer but now? Nope. The double pregnancy drama has direction. Kate's story has direction. The Trent murder story has direction. Again, still work to be done but alot better then where the show was a few months ago. I feel alot of what your saying is dictated by what characters are on the frontburner right now, which is fine. I can understand that reasoning. Oh, and back to stories being dropped and lacking direction, alot of that was Higley/Scott backstage related but, as I said, that goes back to Corday panicking too much.


I wouldn’t put much stock in a small rise in a fickle demo group. Here today, gone tomorrow and we’re left with the fallout. You can consider if a victory if you’d like, but it’s hollow and meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I would also disagree that now magically the stories have direction, all I see is more of the same. The Trent murder story is all over the board, just like all the other stories currently being featured. Centered around a host new characters and relatively new characters that the audience doesn’t give two shits about.

I won’t go as far as to solely blame Higley for the starting and stopping and changing horses in midstream. That’s a phenomenon was started back during Langan’s reign of terror and has continued through to this day. Some worse than others.

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Well, I won't deny he's a liar but the constant need to reassure fans is because he worries about losing any fan or fanbase. I think I've made the statement enough in my posts as to my thinking on why he does that and I wish he wouldn't. Talk about making it hard to invest. Giving away the endgame of a story. Now that is dumb.


I have no idea what you’re referring to about being hard to invest and giving away the endgame of a story.


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I won't quote you on this but as for Higley's blog, I understand what you and others are saying but if you don't like that aspect of her blog, just skip it. I mean, if you just skim it and pick out the parts that interest you, there wouldn't be an issue. I see this as no different then actors who have personal blogs, particularly actors who have blogs on NBC's site. Ali Sweeney, James Scott, and Deidre Hall all have blogs on that site. Stephen Nichols once did. They all wrote more about their personal lives then they did topics that were show-related. Everyone in the business who has a blog does that. They can't give away things in the blog. They have to be careful.


Trust me, I do skip it. Actors blogs are different from a writers blog. People are interested in the actors and in their personal lives because they are on our screens. I do not believe that many people are interested in what Higley’s kids are doing, or what the key grip or best boy had for dinner last night. Why isn’t Higley’s blog on the NBC site if it’s just supposed to be fluff like all the rest? And I haven’t seen anyone demanding or even implying that she should give away anything in her blog.

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Dena probably is told what she can and can't say and she seems to be listening in that she is talking a bit about the show. Part of the purpose is for us to get to know her, just like the actors want us to get to know them via their blogs. It forms a connection. If your not interested, that is fine but that is one of the purposes of her blog and she can't spill too much about the show so she has to write about something. I will agree she could focus a bit on how she writes and the process she goes through. That would be nice to see but, other then that, she can't really give out spoilers or too many specifics.


Of course actors/writers are limited in what they can and cannot say about the show that’s ancient news. Everyone has always been interested in the actors and their lives. Caring about a writer in that way is a wholly new paradox. No one clamors to know about writers, most people don’t even know their names because the audience doesn’t care about them in the same way they do about actors. I don’t need to connect to who Higley is, I only need to connect with what she writes and I can’t. Perhaps she feels if she can elicit enough sympathy the audience about her personal life they won’t be so critical of her writing and again she would be barking up the wrong tree. Again I don’t think that anyone is suggesting that she “give away” anything or reveal too many specifics.

Lastly, I know that Ted Corday passed away and I also know that Betty Corday staunchly maintained that she was following Ted’s bible, his plans, his methods, his visions, making them essentially one in the same.


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Mason
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jane1978
Oct 30 2008, 04:10 AM
Ok, seriously, you are not watching the show. How you can know it´s boring? Just because it´s not fronting characters you like?

People like you are huge part of problem because you will never allow the show to evolve or move on. For example, you never saw even one scene with Melanie yet you are already want her gone. Why? Just because she is new? So the show cannot have any new characters? Any new couples?

It´s like some fans are literally stuck in time.
Excuse me? First of all, how do you know what I've seen and what I haven't seen? You don't, so don't presume so. Second, I'm the problem simply because I want a quality, entertaining show? Bull-fucking-shit! Maybe I just have higher standards than you. Ever think of that? Third, of course I'm not wasting my valuable time on the show when even the spoilers sound boring (which is how I know the show is boring without even watching it, by the way). Fourth, don't put words in my mouth. I never said the show couldn't have new characters/couples, nor have I said I'm disliking the show because my favorite characters are not being "fronted". Clearly, you are the one who has no idea what she's talking about.

It's people like you who make me not even want to post in the DAYS threads anymore. God forbid anyone should say anything remotely negative about the show!

Edited by Mason, Oct 30 2008, 09:47 AM.
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Jiggs
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jane1978
Oct 30 2008, 04:10 AM
People like you are huge part of problem because you will never allow the show to evolve or move on. For example, you never saw even one scene with Melanie yet you are already want her gone. Why? Just because she is new? So the show cannot have any new characters? Any new couples?

It´s like some fans are literally stuck in time.
I love this attitude. I don't see how a viewer is ever to blame if they no longer like a show. S O W H A T ???
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jane1978


Jiggs
Oct 30 2008, 06:09 PM
jane1978
Oct 30 2008, 04:10 AM
People like you are huge part of problem because you will never allow the show to evolve or move on. For example, you never saw even one scene with Melanie yet you are already want her gone. Why? Just because she is new? So the show cannot have any new characters? Any new couples?

It´s like some fans are literally stuck in time.
I love this attitude. I don't see how a viewer is ever to blame if they no longer like a show. S O W H A T ???
Who said anything about blaming viewer? I said someone who isn´t even watching can hardly judge if the show is boring or not. And he certainly cannot decide if some characters created after he stopped to watch should be on or not.

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