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Weekly Discussion; For week of November 3rd
Topic Started: Nov 3 2008, 04:12 PM (4,779 Views)
luvpumpkns
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phoenix, i get what you are saying, but think about it this way--bo was the only person that spoke at the trial. ej made one opening sentence, and then was not allowed to speak again. even at bail hearing such as this one, he would have spoken last, in other words, he would have had a chance to provide a rebuttal to what bo said. bo wouldn't be allowed to be a character witness as the arresting officer. i also don't think her crimes against victor and colin would be admissible. she was never charged in either attempted murder--and most importantly, she was never charged for the crime of 'lying about being married to trent.' the judge can't consider that because victor never pressed charges for fraud. he just got his money back from her and dropped the whole thing. now i suppose if they could round up colin and victor, they could be character witnesses testifying to her flight risk, but that's about it. evidentiary-wise, the ONLY thing that the judge has to go on is a torn marriage license and a note from trent. that is not nearly enough to begin thinking of denying bail.

the way the trial was run, bo could have made up any old thing about nicole and the judge would have considered it, and that, to me, is just a total mockery of the legal system. i usually do take this kind of stuff with a grain of salt, but like i said before, this was a bit over the top, even for a soap. i don't mind that they railroaded nicole--i just want someone to acknowledge it at some point, and not act as if this trial was fair in any way.

and don't even get me started on the D.A. that person has got to be the worst prosecutor known to man. you definitely don't drop a suspect who was caught with the murder weapon or has the victim's blood all over their shirt because you have another with weak circumstantial evidence against her.

Edited by luvpumpkns, Nov 4 2008, 08:47 AM.
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Tripp
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Geekette

Alligato
Nov 3 2008, 11:29 PM

And maybe I totally need a life, but when Melanie kisses Nick, she gets a little into it and open mouth, but when she kisses Phillip, lips are shut. I wonder if MB is nervous in her scenes with JKJ because he is so damn gorgeous and older. BB is gorgeous too, but more on her level. Nevermind. It's late. I should end this!
Awwww, come on. Have you seen Blake's lips? They are very kissable. I'm not saying they are more kissable then JKJ (I find him hot) but I would think it's easy to forget who you are kissing. RM said on their first real kissing scene they forgot about the camera being there as they got into it and used tongue.
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Days4Life


goldylicious
Nov 3 2008, 11:30 PM


How can Kate go through chemo and look so flawlessly gorgeous?
I know it's only a soap, but i find the Kate story offensive. My aunt is currently going through chemo due to lung cancer, and believe me, she doesn't look like Kate. I just can't take the story seriously[/quote]I know how you feel. My uncle was dying of pancreatic cancer during Bo's pancreatic something or other storyline, and I couldn't watch most of his scenes. It is just a soap, but sometimes it hits a little too close to home.

I am surprised they aren't making Kate look sick, especially because they did such a great job with Bo. Maybe they are just waiting for the disease to progress further. It is in Kate's character for her to be in a hospital bed with great hair and make-up; she would probably hire someone to come in and "style" her every morning.
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esp13
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PhoenixRising05
Nov 4 2008, 12:55 AM
Well, the DA did say it was an unconventional request and she may have felt Bo's testimony was needed to succeed in getting bail denied. Unorthodox things do happen in court, I would assume. None of us know what happens in every court case so anything is possible.

As for Bo bringing up crimes she was never charged with, I don't see what the issue is with that. Everyone in Salem pretty much knows it and Nicole would've been charged had Colin and Victor pressed charges. It's relevant. It just can't be the reason why you lock Nicole up. That's all. It's something that can and should be brought up and given thought to IMO. It's related to her reputation and her character. Just like you have people provide testimony as a character witness. Most of what they say is along those very same lines. Your taking that person's word for it. There isn't proof for every one of a character witness's claims. Bo is very much acting as a character witness only he is a cop. He's just giving his input and saying what he knows and it's relevant. Again, I don't think this is being submitted as evidence. It's just bring brought to the judge's attention to provide info about who Nicole is. It provides background that is needed. This is also an arraignment and you are trying to determine if giving her bail is the right decision and, to me, that makes bringing up Colin and Victor reasonable because it provides info that suggests she could potentially be dangerous or irrational.

Your forgetting Caroline can not be compared to Nicole. Caroline is an older woman who has been a pillar of the community for years. Nicole's history and reputation speaks for itself. it's quite clear why Caroline would get bail and not her even if Caroline was caught holding a knife over the body. They would never expect Caroline to be a flight risk based on her history and the fact that she has two sons who are police officers, has a Pub in Salem, and is older. As for Melanie, as soon as they learned of what she knew and her lies, they got on her case. Hell, they were before that. Only problem is they had no evidence. her lying and behavior made her look guilty but they didn't have the sort of evidence they have on Nicole or even Caroline so they could not arrest her. If you recall, Max was brought in and the DA determined they did not have enough evidence in that it was proven by a witness at the Salem Inn Max was there when he said he was and they have Chelsea. Nick. and Melanie who were there when he fought with Trent, which accounts for the bloody shirt. His story checks out. Bo said the DA determined there just wasn't enough to hold Max and charge him, unlike Caroline who was witnessed threatening the victim at the Pub and was standing over the body with the knife along with admitting she was very angry.

Your right in that it's Days and they never handle legal issues with complete realism. Honestly, unless it's a law show, most shows will make mistakes or not be completely realistic. I think Days keeps it realistic enough to get by.

No, actually, anything is not possible. There are consitutional requirements as well as rules of evidence that must be followed. I don't care if the DA felt Bo's testimony was necessary or not. He would have still been sworn in before being allowed to give ANY testimony. And, under the rules of evidence, unsupported allegations of crimes for which the accused was never charged are irrelevant and inadmissible. The judge is allowed to consider many things in setting bail, including the criminal history of the defendant. But, no judge would allow testimony regarding crimes for which the defendant WAS NOT CHARGED. If so, that would mean that you or I could walk into a courtroom and tell the court that a defendant tried to kill someone (with no proof to support that claim) and have the judge take that unsubstantiated accusastion into account. Does that sound remotely fair to you?

And character witnesses do not get to testify that somebody tried to kill somebody else without any evidence to support those claims. They can testify that somebody has a reputation for lying or even for violence (under very limited circumstances), but they can't just make accusations regarding unrelated crimes on the witness stand.

I've been watching Days for over 20 years and they've never even approached the realm of realism in the their legal issues. That's okay, I can deal. I'm sure doctor's feel the same way about the way they treat medical issues on the show. In fact, at this point it mostly makes me laugh a lot.
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Days4Life


I think part of the problem with soaps in general is the way they treat legal and medical issues. The audience is much more educated about things like that than they used to be, thanks to prime time procedurals like the Law and Orders and CSIs and medical shows like ER and Grey's Anatomy. If soaps want to be taken more seriously, they should try to do a better job with courtroom scenes like we had yesterday, rather than making a joke of it and insulting the intelligence of the viewer. Yes, I know it's a soap and I have to make allowances because of that, but it's still irritating and distracting to see the legal system portrayed as such a travesty. Bo not sworn in and able to say whatever he wanted about Nicole, all of which were allegations since she hadn't been convicted of any of the crimes he mentioned...EJ not being able to even speak...the DA ignoring rules of evidence...it was ridiculous.
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six
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While Nick is smart, I still don't think there's been a good enough explanation for him being messed up enough to let Melanie take the fall, yet be lucid enough to slowly terrorize her. This is a DiMera level plot from Nick.

I think if Sami wanted to leave, she'd just let someone know. She's not under arrest, so I don't see her trying to sneak out.

I agree about the trial, Days4life
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about the hearing.

All I know is I have a relative who is a lawyer and I've heard alot worse. I've also known people who have been treated in a way that they shouldn't be. Yes, there are ethics and rules but they are not followed all the time. Hell, I believe my niece, who is in college right now for law, once brought something home that said over 70% of all legal proceedings do not go by the book anymore. That is why I pointed out none of us our legal experts and none of us have documentation nor have we been in every single courtroom in this country during a hearing. Unfortunately, I've been witness to incompetency and have seen worse things in the medical field and in the legal field then I have on Days and that is why I think some are expecting far too much and would be surprised how what is being seen on Days isn't exactly something that wouldn't happen. I'm not saying everything we've seen would but it is possible and I think some are making the legal and medical fields out to be perfect and always going by the book. Maybe they used to but they don't anymore. Hell, most times they don't. And let's not even get started on corruption, which I think was the point here. The Judge turned on the Dimera's and the writers had EJ acknowledge how the whole hearing was a mockery and very unorthodox. The judge had an ax to grind and, as I said, I think it worked well for the story because the mayor, who was in the Dimera's pocket, was killed and I think the judge saw this as a chance to break away. I think this ties in with Abe being mayor and how things will change It's setting the stage for that story and the Dimera's fighting like hell to maintain power in Salem. Maybe that, among the other reasons I mentioned, is why I had no issue with the hearing. It helped story and, as I said, I've heard and seen worse. At least they bothered to show a hearing. I think the most important justification is it's just a TV show. Even specialized shows like Law and Order and ER get it wrong once and awhile.

Oh, and in regards to the way Days handles medical issues, they've been doing a much better job in recent times of that. They did a good job in 2003-2003 with Chloe's leukemia and Bo's illness and so much of the medical stuff this year has been treated very well. They've even used medical jargon that Days never used to use.

Clearly, I'm in the minority though so I will back off LOL.
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Nov 4 2008, 01:22 PM.
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mesagirl
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luvpumpkns
Nov 3 2008, 09:39 PM
i was up and down yelling at bo, hope and the judge today. fitzpatrick made a total mockery of the hearing(not that that is a big surprise in salem), but this went too far. hearsay and inadmissable evidence was allowed to be heard and considered. ej was warned not to speak even though that it his job as opposing counsel...it was just a mess and over the top. i wish bo and hope had acknowledged as much, or hell, at least acted with a little compassion instead of the smugness they did. it would be one thing if there was comparable evidence against nicole as there is melanie and caroline, but there just isn't. bo telling hope today that he wasn't sure nicole was guilty isn't enough either. it makes no sense to me why the focus was taken completely off of melanie just because they found a note from trent.
Me too! Me too!!

OMG the courtroom scenes were horrible. EJ has grounds for a mistrial before the actual trial even starts! It's Days though, not too surprising that they don't use any form of reality. *sigh* :drunk:
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Alligato
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So is Nick psycho obsessive with Melanie and stalking her, or is he playing her? Or does he really like her?
Does Melanie not get a creepy feeling about Nick? Just a little? I am feeling something weird about this story. Not getting where they are going with it.

I love me some Stefano/EJ scenes...and for a second there, I felt the Dimera rage return a bit, but alas, nothing came of it. Chuckled a little when EJ mentioned that Nicole is being accused of taking a human life...um EJ...aside from your family history, do you remember what you were doing a few years ago? That kind of thing shouldn't surprise you or freak you out. Glad he went to help Nicole because if I had to hear her whine anymore, I would have gone crazy!
Loved that EJ hit the guard's hand and said don't touch. Don't know why but that made me laugh. Great ad lib.

I do like me some Phillip/Stephanie and feel me some chemistry. I hope those two get a bit cozy, and I am still trying to force myself to beleive that Philly is okay hanging out with the younger group, even if Chelsea is his sister, er, grandsister? What is their relation again?

Pretty good show!
Edited by Alligato, Nov 4 2008, 03:02 PM.
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luvpumpkns
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phillip is her uncle, i think.
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DrewHamilton
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Philip is Chelsea's uncle on both sides. He is Bo's brother and Billie's brother. Blame the whacky Salem family tree for that one! LOL!

I don't know why, but I feel that Philip is completely out of place at the Cheatin' Heart. He's more of Chez Rouge, Penthouse Grille type of guy and when I see him at this dive bar, it's not really believable to me. And I wish they would take him out of the younger group. He just looks weird with them I think.
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jane1978


I really loved Tuesday. Great suspensefull show. I think mr. Reilly would be proud today because the show definitely had classic Reilly feeling and I donīt mean the horrible second stint.

First, the Melanie/Nick stuff. I thought it was perfect, the music, MB and BBīs acting, the growing feeling something is terribly wrong with him. Melanie seems to be a little scared too, still, Nick is her only chance to have some money so she just tries to ignore it. The best thing was the fantasy at the end, so over top and so funny. Nick is spiralling out of control and I canīt wait for the next episode. Really chilling, thriling stuff even if I already know where it goes. I can imagine spoiler free people are really sitting on the edge of their seats now.

Stephanie/Phillip. Now this is pairing which I think could get really big. I liked Morgan, but the truth is JKJ never seemed to really click with KR and some of their scenes felt forced. And the writers really screwed the falling in love part which should be the best. With Steph/Phillip you can almost see JKJ and SH being all giddy they are finally working together. Steph was so funny today and I love how innocent all her scenes with Phillip are even if the sexual tension is clearly there. Steph also seems to be much more herself and relaxed, with Max she was usually very uptight.

Stephanie/Max. After today Iīm almost sure they are really over. Itīs not just Melanie keeping them apart now, itīs the whole baggage of annoying things which has been always there but both Max and Steph were too in love to really make it an issue. Now, when the love is slowly fading away, they are starting to digging them out and use againt each other.

EJ/Stefano/Nicol. I think the writers are watching all the prison movies to see what most horrible could happen to Nicole there. Itīs totally unrealistic and over top but I really donīt care as long as its entertaining and AZ is great at comedy. It was not totally shallow either because we again saw how sorry and ashamed Nicol is for part of her past. Stefano was really at the top of his game today and I like his obsession with grandchildren and family. I think itīs much more realistical than if he was still obsessed with Marlena or worse, the vendetta.

Lexie/Abe. Liked the foreshadowing with Stephanoīs call and Lexie being very unsure at the end. Soon or later she will have to choose between Abe and her DiMera roots and it will not be easy.

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esp13
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PhoenixRising05
Nov 4 2008, 01:21 PM
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about the hearing.

All I know is I have a relative who is a lawyer and I've heard alot worse. I've also known people who have been treated in a way that they shouldn't be. Yes, there are ethics and rules but they are not followed all the time. Hell, I believe my niece, who is in college right now for law, once brought something home that said over 70% of all legal proceedings do not go by the book anymore. That is why I pointed out none of us our legal experts and none of us have documentation nor have we been in every single courtroom in this country during a hearing. Unfortunately, I've been witness to incompetency and have seen worse things in the medical field and in the legal field then I have on Days and that is why I think some are expecting far too much and would be surprised how what is being seen on Days isn't exactly something that wouldn't happen. I'm not saying everything we've seen would but it is possible and I think some are making the legal and medical fields out to be perfect and always going by the book. Maybe they used to but they don't anymore. Hell, most times they don't. And let's not even get started on corruption, which I think was the point here. The Judge turned on the Dimera's and the writers had EJ acknowledge how the whole hearing was a mockery and very unorthodox. The judge had an ax to grind and, as I said, I think it worked well for the story because the mayor, who was in the Dimera's pocket, was killed and I think the judge saw this as a chance to break away. I think this ties in with Abe being mayor and how things will change It's setting the stage for that story and the Dimera's fighting like hell to maintain power in Salem. Maybe that, among the other reasons I mentioned, is why I had no issue with the hearing. It helped story and, as I said, I've heard and seen worse. At least they bothered to show a hearing. I think the most important justification is it's just a TV show. Even specialized shows like Law and Order and ER get it wrong once and awhile.

Oh, and in regards to the way Days handles medical issues, they've been doing a much better job in recent times of that. They did a good job in 2003-2003 with Chloe's leukemia and Bo's illness and so much of the medical stuff this year has been treated very well. They've even used medical jargon that Days never used to use.

Clearly, I'm in the minority though so I will back off LOL.
I would be the last person to say that there aren't renegade judges out there that do things their own way. Lord knows, I've seen it firsthand. But, even if what happened in Nicole's bail hearing could conceivably happen somewhere in this country (which I don't believe for a second based on 10 years of practicing law), it doesn't make it "realistic" or reasonable and I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing that out. Just like the fact that having relatives supposedly investigate relatives is unrealistic, and that having a cop that was recently investigated for concealing evidence is in the running for police commissioner is unrealistic, so was that bail hearing.

It doesn't mean that it didn't serve the plot purpose or that it was not within the realms of Days take on the legal system. It did and it was. But, don't ask me to pretend it was anything like the legal system I practice in.
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Charmqn
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Please let this not be an exit story for Nick cause Blake is doing great as this new dark Nick.
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Alligato
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DrewHamilton
Nov 4 2008, 03:13 PM
Philip is Chelsea's uncle on both sides. He is Bo's brother and Billie's brother. Blame the whacky Salem family tree for that one! LOL!

I don't know why, but I feel that Philip is completely out of place at the Cheatin' Heart. He's more of Chez Rouge, Penthouse Grille type of guy and when I see him at this dive bar, it's not really believable to me. And I wish they would take him out of the younger group. He just looks weird with them I think.
Then she should really call him "Uncle Phil" (funny nod to the Fresh Prince). I mean, they walked in with his arm around her and seemed really comfy with each other buying each other drinks...and it started making me wonder how they were related because they were cute together. I did love Phil with Stephanie though. Steph was cute, and I just look forward to their romance if that is where they are going. I think they will fight great too! Steph reimerged today in her fighting with Max. She could take Phil on.

And I didn't feel like Phil fit in the Cheating Heart either. They could either dress him down in jeans and a tshirt and totally ruin the Kiriakis look and attitude, or they can keep him in dress shirts and make him look like he doesn't fit in there.

And my lovable Nick is turning to the dark side...while I don't find it believable to be happening so quickly (the only person I know who is addicted to pain killers comes off as confused and stoned sometimes, not very devious or smart) but Blake is rocking the creepy stuff. Great material for him and shows his range.
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six
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How old is Philip supposed to be? I had the feeling he was maybe 3-5 years older than the younger set, which isn't bad. I think the independent race car driving Steph would be a good match for him. The clingy jealous Stephanie with Max would not.
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Tripp
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Geekette

So I do enjoy the Chelsea/Nick/Melanie triangle but am concerned Mick will die a death with this crazy plot of Nick's. Still, it's wonderful that they are using Blake. That fantasy between he and Melanie was kind of funny (Melanie in the kitchen) and a bit hot at the end.

I loved Philip with both Chelsea (pointing out Chelsea's flaws along with her opinion of Nick) and Stephanie. I think I enjoyed Stephanie today more than I ever had. Max was a complete dick to her, he didn't even seem the least bit concerned. Is this a problem with DB not knowing how to do longing or the writers not putting it in?

Nicole ringing the bars with the tin cup was funny but that was about it. I didn't care for her crying scenes.

Stefano and EJ are always fun to watch. But it's not like Stefano should be SHOCKED that Nicole could be a killer. I mean, what will happen to the Dimera family if word got out?
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mbdimera
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I thought today's show was pretty good.

Blake really does creepy well. I'm curious to see what kind of personality the writers will give Nick when all is said and done. Do they just chalk all this up to the pills and he goes back to being Mr. Nice Guy?

Stefano and EJ are always entertaining and they should definitely have Joe and James in more scenes together.

I could get behind Phillip and Stephanie. I hope the writers explore this. Although it is weird to see him hanging out at the Cheatin' Heart with the younger set.
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DrewHamilton
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six
Nov 4 2008, 06:23 PM
How old is Philip supposed to be? I had the feeling he was maybe 3-5 years older than the younger set, which isn't bad. I think the independent race car driving Steph would be a good match for him. The clingy jealous Stephanie with Max would not.
Eh. Ages aren't ever easy to calculate on DAYS. But in my mind, Chelsea/Stephanie/Max/Nick are early 20s (21-24). I'd say Philip is late 20s along with Chloe, probably 27-30.
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☼ Jinx ☼
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Live. Love. Laugh. ♥

^ I think Max is portrayed to be later 20's too. I remember Steve talking about him being so experienced and all when him and Stephanie first started dating!
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