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SOD Confirming the DH'S are gone
Topic Started: Nov 17 2008, 12:47 PM (7,526 Views)
PhoenixRising05
Member Avatar
GET EM STEPH!!

jane1978
Nov 19 2008, 02:54 AM
Kenny
Nov 19 2008, 02:24 AM
jane1978
Nov 19 2008, 02:05 AM
I donīt want sound harsh or something, but in this time and state soaps are in no one is worthy the pay DH/DDH are making. If the budget was really slashed by 40 percent, to keep them anymore as anything more than popular extras was simply out of question.
I guess I just see it like this...

Ten years ago, Days of Our Lives was #2 in the ratings and #1 in all the important demographics. I understand that the ratings ratings have fallen for all soaps, but Days hasn't only fallen in the ratings... they've also fallen in their standings. What was once the #2 soap is now near the bottom, and they lost their demographic stronghold a long time ago.

With a capable head honcho and a capable writing team, the show wouldn't have fallen nearly this far/this quickly, IMO. The cast wouldn't be asked to take pay cut after pay cut if they had a capable head honcho and a capable writing team to keep the audiences from bleeding out. It's obvious that the blame for this lies on the shoulders of Ken Corday and all the hacks he's allowed to destroy the show for the last ten years, so why should his cast be the ones that pay for it? He and his group of hacks have single-handedly taken a hatchet to the ratings. He has no business savvy -- he shouldn't be running a business. The budget problems are HIS fault. The cast has been asked over and over and over to take major pay cuts, and at some point, you just have to say no. There comes a point where the actors realize that they're the ones paying for all the mistakes of the big wigs, and it's not right to constantly make them take the hit and put their financial livelihood in serious jeopardy just because the captain of the ship is constantly finding new ways to hit an iceberg.
Did Corday a lot of stupid decisions? Sure. But I donīt think even best producer in the world could change the fact soaps are dying, or atleast drastically changing. DAYS had good numbers in young demos for years, thatīs true, but itīs exactly people from this demographics who are leaving their TVīs in drones to watch youtube, to chat on MSN, etc. Thatīs truth across the board, from daytime to primetime.

The popularity of soaps actors who were once huge international stars is diminishing. Nobody cares about them, even cabel TVīs are refusing to air anything related to them. Maybe itīs not their fault and they are still doing the best work possible but the sad reality is, most of them was lucky to even keep the job this long. Their pay is based on past fame and no longer justified.
I agree.

Maybe they wouldn't have dropped so fast but it would've happened eventually, especially with Corday in charge. I mean, every writer in the past ten years was not a hack. B&C weren't. SSM wasn't that bad. Broderick was canned before she could do anything. i mean, with the exception of Langan, JER, and Higley, to a lesser extent, some of these writers barely got the time to show what they could do and, even when they did, he had to get involved or screw them up somehow.

I think the fact that the rest of the daytime block around Days is gone doesn't help either. Also, and this goes for all soaps, more people watch then the ratings indicate. They may not watch regularly but they do watch and then there are people who DVR, Tivo, watch on Soapnet, watch online, etc. Back in the 90's, there wasn't so much to measure. Now, there is. There is no way to really tell how many people watch these shows and, when you consider who doesn't even have a Nielsen box, then you begin to wonder how many people aren't being counted.
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jane1978


Kenny
Nov 19 2008, 03:02 AM
jane1978
Nov 19 2008, 02:54 AM
Did Corday a lot of stupid decisions? Sure. But I donīt think even best producer in the world could change the fact soaps are dying, or atleast drastically changing.

Their pay is based on past fame and no longer justified.
People have to pay the bills, that's the bottom line. I don't pretend to know about the personal expenses that any of the actors have, but I do know that they have bills to pay and families to support. When it comes to the point where the show simply can't afford to pay their cast a respectable wage (especially given their seniority and loyalty to the show) then it's time to pack it up and call it a day. There's no use in trying to milk a dead cow.
Now, seriously, are you implying DH/DDH will be starving? :D

Soaps actors are the lucky one. Ask someone who is doing just daily jobs and extras for years how he is able to live. Ask any actor who used to be huge and his show was canceled why he is happy to take any job (Hello, BH 90210 stars). Nothing is older than past fame in Hollywood. Itīs partially this almost socialistic system of rising the pay based on seniority and loyalty what is draining the soaps budget now. Unless there is a clear proof any actor is really affecting the ratings NOW, not ten years ago when he used to be big, there is no reason to pay him any huge amount of money.





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Jiggs
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PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:19 AM
Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 02:31 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 17 2008, 01:44 PM
Yeah. At least they get a payoff.

I mean, it's been obvious the show had no idea what to do with them after this story was over and they were reunited. That is why I think they dragged their feet with their story. As much as it hurts, I think this is for the best for the characters and for their fans because it was getting tiresome.


um, please speak for yourself.
It's my opinion and I was speaking in general.
Actually, no you weren't. You said it is best for the characters and for their fans because it was getting tiresome. As a fan, it is not best for me and the only thing that was tiresome was the ineptness of TPTB, not J&M.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 03:01 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 17 2008, 05:10 PM
This day had to come eventually anyway. I just envisioned it as moving J&M to the backburner but I guess you can say they've been doing that slowly with some resurgence here and there since JER left in 1997.

You can't rely on the same characters over and over. I mean, that is a big reason why there is no suspense. You've been there, done that.
Uh, then why does Y&R and B&B and other soaps rely on the same characters over and over? Y&R especially seems to do well keeping their vets frontburner, and staying on top.
Well, maybe it's because their characters are allowed to explore other relationships. They aren't locked into supercouples. Their fans don't always call for the same old stories and, thus, the writers aren't so limited. Not just that but they have a network behind them that supports them. Y&R has a great lead-in with TPIR and that sets up B&B with a great lead-in in Y&R. Not only that but, with the exception of LML last year, they have a EP that doesn't interfere in the writing all the time (well, Brad Bell is HW and EP on B&B but I digress) and the shows commit to story and stick with it to the end.

Y&R and B&B attract alot of general fans. Fans who watch merely for drama. You don't see that many supercouple fanbases at Y&R and they aren't quite so vocal either. How many times have Victor/Nikki split and moved on? Sharon/Nick? They just tell good stories. Period. They don't worry about what fans think all the time. They tell the story and hope the fan comes for the ride and, most times, they do. That is what soaps used to be. Days in the 80's and 90's was just like that. It just went for whatever story brought the drama, not what pleased fanbase A and fanbase B or fans of this person or fans of that person.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

jane1978
Nov 19 2008, 03:24 AM
Kenny
Nov 19 2008, 03:02 AM
jane1978
Nov 19 2008, 02:54 AM
Did Corday a lot of stupid decisions? Sure. But I donīt think even best producer in the world could change the fact soaps are dying, or atleast drastically changing.

Their pay is based on past fame and no longer justified.
People have to pay the bills, that's the bottom line. I don't pretend to know about the personal expenses that any of the actors have, but I do know that they have bills to pay and families to support. When it comes to the point where the show simply can't afford to pay their cast a respectable wage (especially given their seniority and loyalty to the show) then it's time to pack it up and call it a day. There's no use in trying to milk a dead cow.
Now, seriously, are you implying DH/DDH will be starving? :D

Soaps actors are the lucky one. Ask someone who is doing just daily jobs and extras for years how he is able to live. Ask any actor who used to be huge and his show was canceled why he is happy to take any job (Hello, BH 90210 stars). Nothing is older than past fame in Hollywood. Itīs partially this almost socialistic system of rising the pay based on seniority and loyalty what is draining the soaps budget now. Unless there is a clear proof any actor is really affecting the ratings NOW, not ten years ago when he used to be big, there is no reason to pay him any huge amount of money.





See, that is my problem.

I can't sympathize at all with these veteran actors when I think about how hard I and many others in the middle class have had to work in our lives. Not when they are sitting out in LA living comfortably and I'm sure they have money built up.

But, then, I think about it and realize they are so used to their lifestyle and who knows what they are involved in. Maybe they have kids in an expensive school or maybe they have health problems or something. I just think more about it and realize that I don't know their situations and while I'm sure they are better off then me, it doesn't mean they can't fold and be brought down to my level (or worse) mighty fast and I wouldn't like that. Not when they may have children or bills to pay.
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Kenny
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jane1978
Nov 19 2008, 03:24 AM
Now, seriously, are you implying DH/DDH will be starving? :D

Soaps actors are the lucky one. Ask someone who is doing just daily jobs and extras for years how he is able to live. Ask any actor who used to be huge and his show was canceled why he is happy to take any job (Hello, BH 90210 stars). Nothing is older than past fame in Hollywood. Itīs partially this almost socialistic system of rising the pay based on seniority and loyalty what is draining the soaps budget now. Unless there is a clear proof any actor is really affecting the ratings NOW, not ten years ago when he used to be big, there is no reason to pay him any huge amount of money.





I never said that Deidre and Drake were starving. I was really talking about the cast in general. I just think it's upsetting to ask everyone to take pay cuts over and over and over. Asking someone to accept less money every single year is just not cool. I mean, it'd be one thing if Corday had actually done everything in his power to fix the budget, but he HASN'T. He's made mistake after mistake, and it's not fair that everyone else ends up having to pay for it. It's a matter of principal.
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PhoenixRising05
Member Avatar
GET EM STEPH!!

Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 03:25 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:19 AM
Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 02:31 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 17 2008, 01:44 PM
Yeah. At least they get a payoff.

I mean, it's been obvious the show had no idea what to do with them after this story was over and they were reunited. That is why I think they dragged their feet with their story. As much as it hurts, I think this is for the best for the characters and for their fans because it was getting tiresome.


um, please speak for yourself.
It's my opinion and I was speaking in general.
Actually, no you weren't. You said it is best for the characters and for their fans because it was getting tiresome. As a fan, it is not best for me and the only thing that was tiresome was the ineptness of TPTB, not J&M.
And it was an opinion.

Just like you and others feeling that Marlena is the most popular star ever on Days is an opinion. Did I accuse you and others who said the same of speaking for everyone? No.

I don't understand why you keep targeting me but no matter. I'm just not going to respond to you because I don't want to fill this thread with stuff like this. Not when there is intelligent and interesting discussion going on.
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PhoenixRising05
Member Avatar
GET EM STEPH!!

Kenny
Nov 19 2008, 03:32 AM
jane1978
Nov 19 2008, 03:24 AM
Now, seriously, are you implying DH/DDH will be starving? :D

Soaps actors are the lucky one. Ask someone who is doing just daily jobs and extras for years how he is able to live. Ask any actor who used to be huge and his show was canceled why he is happy to take any job (Hello, BH 90210 stars). Nothing is older than past fame in Hollywood. Itīs partially this almost socialistic system of rising the pay based on seniority and loyalty what is draining the soaps budget now. Unless there is a clear proof any actor is really affecting the ratings NOW, not ten years ago when he used to be big, there is no reason to pay him any huge amount of money.





I never said that Deidre and Drake were starving. I was really talking about the cast in general. I just think it's upsetting to ask everyone to take pay cuts over and over and over. Asking someone to accept less money every single year is just not cool. I mean, it'd be one thing if Corday had actually done everything in his power to fix the budget, but he HASN'T. He's made mistake after mistake, and it's not fair that everyone else ends up having to pay for it. It's a matter of principal.
Your right but I don't think they have all taken them over and over. No one knows for sure, although I'm sure some of them are on at least their second already.

I think if everyone else does it and you don't as a cast member, then it's bothersome.
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Nov 19 2008, 03:37 AM.
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Angie79
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Royal Reporter

Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 03:25 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:19 AM
Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 02:31 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 17 2008, 01:44 PM
Yeah. At least they get a payoff.

I mean, it's been obvious the show had no idea what to do with them after this story was over and they were reunited. That is why I think they dragged their feet with their story. As much as it hurts, I think this is for the best for the characters and for their fans because it was getting tiresome.


um, please speak for yourself.
It's my opinion and I was speaking in general.
Actually, no you weren't. You said it is best for the characters and for their fans because it was getting tiresome. As a fan, it is not best for me and the only thing that was tiresome was the ineptness of TPTB, not J&M.
In PR's defense, he did *I* think this is for the best; so it is his opinion.
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Jiggs
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PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:28 AM
Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 03:01 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 17 2008, 05:10 PM
This day had to come eventually anyway. I just envisioned it as moving J&M to the backburner but I guess you can say they've been doing that slowly with some resurgence here and there since JER left in 1997.

You can't rely on the same characters over and over. I mean, that is a big reason why there is no suspense. You've been there, done that.
Uh, then why does Y&R and B&B and other soaps rely on the same characters over and over? Y&R especially seems to do well keeping their vets frontburner, and staying on top.
Well, maybe it's because their characters are allowed to explore other relationships. They aren't locked into supercouples. Their fans don't always call for the same old stories and, thus, the writers aren't so limited. Not just that but they have a network behind them that supports them. Y&R has a great lead-in with TPIR and that sets up B&B with a great lead-in in Y&R. Not only that but, with the exception of LML last year, they have a EP that doesn't interfere in the writing all the time (well, Brad Bell is HW and EP on B&B but I digress) and the shows commit to story and stick with it to the end.

Y&R and B&B attract alot of general fans. Fans who watch merely for drama. You don't see that many supercouple fanbases at Y&R and they aren't quite so vocal either. How many times have Victor/Nikki split and moved on? Sharon/Nick? They just tell good stories. Period. They don't worry about what fans think all the time. They tell the story and hope the fan comes for the ride and, most times, they do. That is what soaps used to be. Days in the 80's and 90's was just like that. It just went for whatever story brought the drama, not what pleased fanbase A and fanbase B or fans of this person or fans of that person.
It is PURE BULLSHIT to say that fans keep calling for the same stories, to say that having supercouples is a negative thing and that that somehow limits what a writer can do. That thinking is what has destroyed this show. The same creative bankruptcy that says that you can't marry a couple on a soap because that spells storyline dead zone. But ask any fan and they can come up with all kinds of story.

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Rick
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Dreamlander

Jiggs, let's be nice to each other and not snarky.
Edited by Rick, Nov 19 2008, 03:47 AM.
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Jiggs
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PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:33 AM
Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 03:25 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:19 AM
Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 02:31 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 17 2008, 01:44 PM
Yeah. At least they get a payoff.

I mean, it's been obvious the show had no idea what to do with them after this story was over and they were reunited. That is why I think they dragged their feet with their story. As much as it hurts, I think this is for the best for the characters and for their fans because it was getting tiresome.


um, please speak for yourself.
It's my opinion and I was speaking in general.
Actually, no you weren't. You said it is best for the characters and for their fans because it was getting tiresome. As a fan, it is not best for me and the only thing that was tiresome was the ineptness of TPTB, not J&M.
And it was an opinion.

Just like you and others feeling that Marlena is the most popular star ever on Days is an opinion. Did I accuse you and others who said the same of speaking for everyone? No.

I don't understand why you keep targeting me but no matter. I'm just not going to respond to you because I don't want to fill this thread with stuff like this. Not when there is intelligent and interesting discussion going on.
You were speaking for other fans but yourself. Not the same as someone stating they think Deidre is popular. Feel free not to reply to me, I don't care. But I have every right to reply to you if I feel I want to argue a point you are making. It's hardly targeting you, LOL I thought this was a discussion board, or are people only allowed to agree with you?
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Jiggs
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Rick
Nov 19 2008, 03:46 AM
Jiggs, please take it down a notch.
You don't find this comment to be insulting to me? He is implying that replying to me isn't an intelligent or interesting discussion.

Quote:
 
Not when there is intelligent and interesting discussion going on.
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Kyrai


jane1978
Nov 19 2008, 02:05 AM
Ellie
Nov 18 2008, 11:48 PM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 18 2008, 11:36 PM
I think he expected to make big changes. That is why he brought in a firm hand, as you said. However, I doubt he saw any of this coming. Tomlin influenced him into doing something he would never have the guts to do otherwise. Now he probably regrets it seeing all the reactions.
Can I just say something... I have no idea who influenced whom, but unless Tomlin held Corday at gunpoint, Corday has no excuse for this. He should be intensely loyal to two stars who have given and continue to give their all to the show, one for the past 20 years, the other for 30. I understand that budget cuts were needed, but there are many other avenues that could have been taken before the two top stars were let go.
I donīt want sound harsh or something, but in this time and state soaps are in no one is worthy the pay DH/DDH are making. If the budget was really slashed by 40 percent, to keep them anymore as anything more than popular extras was simply out of question. The showīs budget was approx. 65 $ mil. per year, now itīs less than 40 $ mil. So, do the math. DH/DDH were let go first because their contract cycle was just about to end, but itīs just the beginning. Many will follow.
If Corday had discussed pay cuts with Drake or Deidre, and they refused, it's one thing, but from what I read that wasn't even discussed. They were both blindsided. If daytime salaries on soaps are much lower than what D&D are making, then it seems like they probably would have been willing to take a paycut. It's not like they'd be going elsewhere and getting the same or more money.

Obviously, I have no idea what went on, but I can't believe they wouldn't have talked to them in person and discussed the situation vs. just firing them if he wanted to keep them on Days.

Corday is an idiot.
Edited by Kyrai, Nov 19 2008, 06:58 AM.
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Kyrai


PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:28 AM
Well, maybe it's because their characters are allowed to explore other relationships. They aren't locked into supercouples. Their fans don't always call for the same old stories and, thus, the writers aren't so limited. Not just that but they have a network behind them that supports them. Y&R has a great lead-in with TPIR and that sets up B&B with a great lead-in in Y&R. Not only that but, with the exception of LML last year, they have a EP that doesn't interfere in the writing all the time (well, Brad Bell is HW and EP on B&B but I digress) and the shows commit to story and stick with it to the end.

Y&R and B&B attract alot of general fans. Fans who watch merely for drama. You don't see that many supercouple fanbases at Y&R and they aren't quite so vocal either. How many times have Victor/Nikki split and moved on? Sharon/Nick? They just tell good stories. Period. They don't worry about what fans think all the time. They tell the story and hope the fan comes for the ride and, most times, they do. That is what soaps used to be. Days in the 80's and 90's was just like that. It just went for whatever story brought the drama, not what pleased fanbase A and fanbase B or fans of this person or fans of that person.
I am rather tired of fanbases being blamed for everything.

I've been a fan for a long time. Devoted fan since 86.

I threw things at the tv when Roman came back, and the Roman I loved was gone. I remember all of my friends being just as upset as I was. We tuned out. Then we tuned back in after we chilled. Writers didn't say, oops, that's the story I want to tell, but it bothers J&M fans so we'll fix things.

I hated Marlena going back to Roman after the affair, the writers didn't care. They focused on their job. Good story telling.

I couldn't believe after MB, they had John still in love with Kristen. Ridiculous. Guess what, the writers still wrote THEIR stories (thank goodness).

After Possession, SURELY J&M would realize what they mean to each other. NADA....

After Aremid, FINALLY they knew but now they were both stupid.... sigh, but Ok, I was cursing the writers but still glued to the tv because those darn pesky stupid writers had me right where they wanted me. Sure I was furious and yelling at the tv. But I rushed home those days when I thought something might happen. They dragged it out to the point where I started not caring, then threw the Secret Room at me. Vicious evil sadistic writers. I LOVED them!!!

I hated Marlena and John having trouble over all the Gina/Hope/merc John story. I was so mad on their honeymoon, I ranted all over the house and vowed never to watch again. Looking back, it's one of my favorite stories. Sure, I hated elements of it, but some of it was amazing. The John backstory was awesome. John and Stefano were riveting in their scenes. Marlena/Bo/Hope/John were all amazing. No wonder these vets have hung around. They are talented and have great chemistry together. So did I rant and rave during this story? All the time. But the writers stuck to their story for the most part.

I do agree that when writers start reacting prematurely to any risk to fans vs. writing what they know are good stories, it's a problem, but how do you blame a fan for feeling like they do? Just because I want J&M to be happy, doesn't mean you have to write lollipop stories that give that to me. I really don't want boring stories, but I love to rant at good stories.

There is plenty to write for J&M. We just don't have writers or producers or whatever that are willing to anymore.

I refuse to feel guilty for throwing popcorn at Kristen every time I saw her back in 96.





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e83talus
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Kyrai
Nov 19 2008, 07:21 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:28 AM
Well, maybe it's because their characters are allowed to explore other relationships. They aren't locked into supercouples. Their fans don't always call for the same old stories and, thus, the writers aren't so limited. Not just that but they have a network behind them that supports them. Y&R has a great lead-in with TPIR and that sets up B&B with a great lead-in in Y&R. Not only that but, with the exception of LML last year, they have a EP that doesn't interfere in the writing all the time (well, Brad Bell is HW and EP on B&B but I digress) and the shows commit to story and stick with it to the end.

Y&R and B&B attract alot of general fans. Fans who watch merely for drama. You don't see that many supercouple fanbases at Y&R and they aren't quite so vocal either. How many times have Victor/Nikki split and moved on? Sharon/Nick? They just tell good stories. Period. They don't worry about what fans think all the time. They tell the story and hope the fan comes for the ride and, most times, they do. That is what soaps used to be. Days in the 80's and 90's was just like that. It just went for whatever story brought the drama, not what pleased fanbase A and fanbase B or fans of this person or fans of that person.
I am rather tired of fanbases being blamed for everything.

I've been a fan for a long time. Devoted fan since 86.

I threw things at the tv when Roman came back, and the Roman I loved was gone. I remember all of my friends being just as upset as I was. We tuned out. Then we tuned back in after we chilled. Writers didn't say, oops, that's the story I want to tell, but it bothers J&M fans so we'll fix things.

I hated Marlena going back to Roman after the affair, the writers didn't care. They focused on their job. Good story telling.

I couldn't believe after MB, they had John still in love with Kristen. Ridiculous. Guess what, the writers still wrote THEIR stories (thank goodness).

After Possession, SURELY J&M would realize what they mean to each other. NADA....

After Aremid, FINALLY they knew but now they were both stupid.... sigh, but Ok, I was cursing the writers but still glued to the tv because those darn pesky stupid writers had me right where they wanted me. Sure I was furious and yelling at the tv. But I rushed home those days when I thought something might happen. They dragged it out to the point where I started not caring, then threw the Secret Room at me. Vicious evil sadistic writers. I LOVED them!!!

I hated Marlena and John having trouble over all the Gina/Hope/merc John story. I was so mad on their honeymoon, I ranted all over the house and vowed never to watch again. Looking back, it's one of my favorite stories. Sure, I hated elements of it, but some of it was amazing. The John backstory was awesome. John and Stefano were riveting in their scenes. Marlena/Bo/Hope/John were all amazing. No wonder these vets have hung around. They are talented and have great chemistry together. So did I rant and rave during this story? All the time. But the writers stuck to their story for the most part.

I do agree that when writers start reacting prematurely to any risk to fans vs. writing what they know are good stories, it's a problem, but how do you blame a fan for feeling like they do? Just because I want J&M to be happy, doesn't mean you have to write lollipop stories that give that to me. I really don't want boring stories, but I love to rant at good stories.

There is plenty to write for J&M. We just don't have writers or producers or whatever that are willing to anymore.

I refuse to feel guilty for throwing popcorn at Kristen every time I saw her back in 96.





I think you make the point of what true fans are though. I too have watched since 1986 when RoJohn and Marlena first hooked me. Evee when we cringed or cried with our characters because of what they were going thorugh, we never turned the sets off. I haed Roman when he came back in 92. I did not stop watching. I hated Kristen in 94 to 96, but I never stopped watching. I loved to hate that witch. Some of J&M's best scenes were those when Kristen and John were together and all J&M could do was long for each other via looks.

What has made fans stop watching over the years is the ridiculous story lines that went too far, not including possession, which I and many others simply loved, understanding that some detested it. Ratings note however that fans did not leave in droves in 95 during possession. Fans began to complain with Princess Gina & Pawn, Brady v. Marlena with John as the a-hole in the background, SSK was great until everyone came back, Melaswen was a hot mess, and only to be followed by Alex North. Instead of stepping back and saying how can we create more mature and relevant stories for vets so they support the youth, TPTB big idea was to bb J&M and Bope from January 07 to June 07 and then brought them back to read letters that changed the history of a vendetta that they all lived through.

The fans were not indecisive, but the writers and Ken Corday sure were. You can't through garbage at people who were used to quality and expect them to accept it. What did Days believe J&M fans would do for six months while our favs were bb and in a coma? Did TPTB believe that watching people, even georgeous people we love, reading letters were riveting television? Blaming consumers for not buying an inferior product from slum lords is absolutely unacceptable.

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cjknick
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Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 03:42 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:28 AM
Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 03:01 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 17 2008, 05:10 PM
This day had to come eventually anyway. I just envisioned it as moving J&M to the backburner but I guess you can say they've been doing that slowly with some resurgence here and there since JER left in 1997.

You can't rely on the same characters over and over. I mean, that is a big reason why there is no suspense. You've been there, done that.
Uh, then why does Y&R and B&B and other soaps rely on the same characters over and over? Y&R especially seems to do well keeping their vets frontburner, and staying on top.
Well, maybe it's because their characters are allowed to explore other relationships. They aren't locked into supercouples. Their fans don't always call for the same old stories and, thus, the writers aren't so limited. Not just that but they have a network behind them that supports them. Y&R has a great lead-in with TPIR and that sets up B&B with a great lead-in in Y&R. Not only that but, with the exception of LML last year, they have a EP that doesn't interfere in the writing all the time (well, Brad Bell is HW and EP on B&B but I digress) and the shows commit to story and stick with it to the end.

Y&R and B&B attract alot of general fans. Fans who watch merely for drama. You don't see that many supercouple fanbases at Y&R and they aren't quite so vocal either. How many times have Victor/Nikki split and moved on? Sharon/Nick? They just tell good stories. Period. They don't worry about what fans think all the time. They tell the story and hope the fan comes for the ride and, most times, they do. That is what soaps used to be. Days in the 80's and 90's was just like that. It just went for whatever story brought the drama, not what pleased fanbase A and fanbase B or fans of this person or fans of that person.
It is PURE BULLSHIT to say that fans keep calling for the same stories, to say that having supercouples is a negative thing and that that somehow limits what a writer can do. That thinking is what has destroyed this show. The same creative bankruptcy that says that you can't marry a couple on a soap because that spells storyline dead zone. But ask any fan and they can come up with all kinds of story.

It not so much that you can't have supercouples it's a matter of having too many at one time. For one thing they have bigger salaries than most and there is just not enough screen time for each supercouple to be front burner. Or to have indepth storylines or different storylines for that matter ... how many times does Hope need to be kidnapped? How many times do these supercouples need to remarry??? They break up, they make up, they break-up, they make up over and over again. Currently there are too many on Days!
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hops
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Kyrai
Nov 19 2008, 07:21 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:28 AM
Well, maybe it's because their characters are allowed to explore other relationships. They aren't locked into supercouples. Their fans don't always call for the same old stories and, thus, the writers aren't so limited. Not just that but they have a network behind them that supports them. Y&R has a great lead-in with TPIR and that sets up B&B with a great lead-in in Y&R. Not only that but, with the exception of LML last year, they have a EP that doesn't interfere in the writing all the time (well, Brad Bell is HW and EP on B&B but I digress) and the shows commit to story and stick with it to the end.

Y&R and B&B attract alot of general fans. Fans who watch merely for drama. You don't see that many supercouple fanbases at Y&R and they aren't quite so vocal either. How many times have Victor/Nikki split and moved on? Sharon/Nick? They just tell good stories. Period. They don't worry about what fans think all the time. They tell the story and hope the fan comes for the ride and, most times, they do. That is what soaps used to be. Days in the 80's and 90's was just like that. It just went for whatever story brought the drama, not what pleased fanbase A and fanbase B or fans of this person or fans of that person.
I am rather tired of fanbases being blamed for everything.

I've been a fan for a long time. Devoted fan since 86.

I threw things at the tv when Roman came back, and the Roman I loved was gone. I remember all of my friends being just as upset as I was. We tuned out. Then we tuned back in after we chilled. Writers didn't say, oops, that's the story I want to tell, but it bothers J&M fans so we'll fix things.

I hated Marlena going back to Roman after the affair, the writers didn't care. They focused on their job. Good story telling.

I couldn't believe after MB, they had John still in love with Kristen. Ridiculous. Guess what, the writers still wrote THEIR stories (thank goodness).

After Possession, SURELY J&M would realize what they mean to each other. NADA....

After Aremid, FINALLY they knew but now they were both stupid.... sigh, but Ok, I was cursing the writers but still glued to the tv because those darn pesky stupid writers had me right where they wanted me. Sure I was furious and yelling at the tv. But I rushed home those days when I thought something might happen. They dragged it out to the point where I started not caring, then threw the Secret Room at me. Vicious evil sadistic writers. I LOVED them!!!

I hated Marlena and John having trouble over all the Gina/Hope/merc John story. I was so mad on their honeymoon, I ranted all over the house and vowed never to watch again. Looking back, it's one of my favorite stories. Sure, I hated elements of it, but some of it was amazing. The John backstory was awesome. John and Stefano were riveting in their scenes. Marlena/Bo/Hope/John were all amazing. No wonder these vets have hung around. They are talented and have great chemistry together. So did I rant and rave during this story? All the time. But the writers stuck to their story for the most part.

I do agree that when writers start reacting prematurely to any risk to fans vs. writing what they know are good stories, it's a problem, but how do you blame a fan for feeling like they do? Just because I want J&M to be happy, doesn't mean you have to write lollipop stories that give that to me. I really don't want boring stories, but I love to rant at good stories.

There is plenty to write for J&M. We just don't have writers or producers or whatever that are willing to anymore.

I refuse to feel guilty for throwing popcorn at Kristen every time I saw her back in 96.





Great post! I've always said, if I wanted to watch Y&R, I'd watch Y&R. I chose to watch Days because Days had John and Marlena and not only that, it was how they were written. They were nice people. They tried to do the right thing. They made mistakes and paid for them and always took responsibility. Whether they were together or apart, they were best friends and cared deeply for each other. Days was unique. Days had a unique audience. Yes, many have stopped watching, but maybe that's because TPTB didn't appreciate the audience they had, who knows. Believe me, if Days had been written like Y&R, I wouldn't still be around. I watched Y&R for a few years, got fed up and turned it off. Days was my kind of soap opera. And no, I didn't ask to be a fan, it just happened and I never watched out of habit. And I never asked for the same old stories. All I wanted was to recognize the characters I fell in love with.
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Sindacco
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cjknick
Nov 19 2008, 07:48 AM
Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 03:42 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 19 2008, 03:28 AM
Jiggs
Nov 19 2008, 03:01 AM
PhoenixRising05
Nov 17 2008, 05:10 PM
This day had to come eventually anyway. I just envisioned it as moving J&M to the backburner but I guess you can say they've been doing that slowly with some resurgence here and there since JER left in 1997.

You can't rely on the same characters over and over. I mean, that is a big reason why there is no suspense. You've been there, done that.
Uh, then why does Y&R and B&B and other soaps rely on the same characters over and over? Y&R especially seems to do well keeping their vets frontburner, and staying on top.
Well, maybe it's because their characters are allowed to explore other relationships. They aren't locked into supercouples. Their fans don't always call for the same old stories and, thus, the writers aren't so limited. Not just that but they have a network behind them that supports them. Y&R has a great lead-in with TPIR and that sets up B&B with a great lead-in in Y&R. Not only that but, with the exception of LML last year, they have a EP that doesn't interfere in the writing all the time (well, Brad Bell is HW and EP on B&B but I digress) and the shows commit to story and stick with it to the end.

Y&R and B&B attract alot of general fans. Fans who watch merely for drama. You don't see that many supercouple fanbases at Y&R and they aren't quite so vocal either. How many times have Victor/Nikki split and moved on? Sharon/Nick? They just tell good stories. Period. They don't worry about what fans think all the time. They tell the story and hope the fan comes for the ride and, most times, they do. That is what soaps used to be. Days in the 80's and 90's was just like that. It just went for whatever story brought the drama, not what pleased fanbase A and fanbase B or fans of this person or fans of that person.
It is PURE BULLSHIT to say that fans keep calling for the same stories, to say that having supercouples is a negative thing and that that somehow limits what a writer can do. That thinking is what has destroyed this show. The same creative bankruptcy that says that you can't marry a couple on a soap because that spells storyline dead zone. But ask any fan and they can come up with all kinds of story.

It not so much that you can't have supercouples it's a matter of having too many at one time. For one thing they have bigger salaries than most and there is just not enough screen time for each supercouple to be front burner. Or to have indepth storylines or different storylines for that matter ... how many times does Hope need to be kidnapped? How many times do these supercouples need to remarry??? They break up, they make up, they break-up, they make up over and over again. Currently there are too many on Days!
Exactly, and it's easy for the fans to say they would do a better job as a writer. Um hello, when you write fanfics you write for you favorites, not the whole show and you don't have to think about budget and shit like that. For me it's easy to come up with stories for my favorites (Victor, Lexie, Stefano) but would I do a good job for the whole show when I also have to think about budget, rabid fans and a producer that interfere with my work? Probably not.
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hops
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e83talus
Nov 19 2008, 07:41 AM



I think you make the point of what true fans are though. I too have watched since 1986 when RoJohn and Marlena first hooked me. Evee when we cringed or cried with our characters because of what they were going thorugh, we never turned the sets off. I haed Roman when he came back in 92. I did not stop watching. I hated Kristen in 94 to 96, but I never stopped watching. I loved to hate that witch. Some of J&M's best scenes were those when Kristen and John were together and all J&M could do was long for each other via looks.

What has made fans stop watching over the years is the ridiculous story lines that went too far, not including possession, which I and many others simply loved, understanding that some detested it. Ratings note however that fans did not leave in droves in 95 during possession. Fans began to complain with Princess Gina & Pawn, Brady v. Marlena with John as the a-hole in the background, SSK was great until everyone came back, Melaswen was a hot mess, and only to be followed by Alex North. Instead of stepping back and saying how can we create more mature and relevant stories for vets so they support the youth, TPTB big idea was to bb J&M and Bope from January 07 to June 07 and then brought them back to read letters that changed the history of a vendetta that they all lived through.

The fans were not indecisive, but the writers and Ken Corday sure were. You can't through garbage at people who were used to quality and expect them to accept it. What did Days believe J&M fans would do for six months while our favs were bb and in a coma? Did TPTB believe that watching people, even georgeous people we love, reading letters were riveting television? Blaming consumers for not buying an inferior product from slum lords is absolutely unacceptable.

:hail:
Edited by hops, Nov 19 2008, 08:19 AM.
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