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GL Invites Bloggers to Visit the Set of GL...; ...on GL/Telenext Media's Dime!
Topic Started: Dec 12 2008, 03:08 PM (1,565 Views)
bellcurve
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I saw this on SON and I had to post this here. There's so much to digest and dissect that I it will take a while for me to write what I really feel about this, but here are the articles for starters:

Sara Bibel:

http://thebiz.fancast.com/2008/12/one_day_in_peapack_and_the_wor.html

http://thebiz.fancast.com/2008/12/putting_the_field_in_springfie.html

Michael Fairman:

http://www.michaelfairmansoaps.com/message/thread.cfm?message_id=398&page=1

Was our dear friend, HunterForrester, invited to this wankfest? I imagine Wheeler didn't want anyone on the field trip who was "keeping it real." And I wonder if Bibel and Fairman took the Greyhound and stayed at a roach motel?

This is embarassing.
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Mason


Since when do you have to be invited to visit a couple of fields? :laugh:
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bellcurve
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Quote:
 
Daniel Cosgrove was supposed to be climbing what the script said was a treacherous path. He literally was climbing up over the side of rocks as tall as he was. There really was ice in the stream. He really did leap across the water. If he had missed, he really would have slipped and fallen in the water. Yesterday I really did have two people standing on the edge of a seven story building.


I can't imagine the actors are too happy with having to do their own stunts, some of them dangerous with no sort of help or safety net whatsoever.

The same with what's going on at ATWT, when Alison and Casey were trying to talk some dayplayer down from jumping off the roof. I can't imagine a show, strapped for cash, would bother creating a safety net for it's actors or hire professional stunt coordinators to help develop the stunts.

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...We've moved from eight sets a week to what is in our studio space about 45 sets. If you count the sets that are actually built in our studio, the offices, and the other locations around the building that we shot at on a regular basis. We have another 40 sort of regular locations here. We're now at a place where if the writers write it, as long as it's something I can find within a ten mile radius of here, [we can do it.]


But the problem is that we see none of this on-screen. People are having conversations in parks and wooded areas constantly. We see people having coversations in the same eight sets all the time. She's saying "we have 40-80 sets to play," but I'm not seeing any of it on the screen. At all.

God, there's just so much crap to dissect with these interviews. It's sad that GL has sunken to these depths all for the sake of ego.
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bellcurve
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Another thing that bothers me RE: shooting in Peapack that Wheeler didn't address and Bibel didn't ask about is why are all the shows set in the daytime? I can understand not wanting your cast and crew to go into overtime by shooting after a certain time of day. But why can't the entire show take place at night with small studio sets, using the Main Street set with a night light or two and other lighting? If they have 49 sets to play with onstage, why aren't those sets being used for "nighttime" shows?

I think it is fine and rather appropriate for those who want to do this type of renegade experiment for internet shows, cable access channels, or cablers that would appreciate such an experiment. But GL was such an insitution, a wonderful show rich with history, despite its good days and bad days. It makes me sad that Ellen Wheeler and Barbara Bloom won't let this show die with dignity all for the sake of ego.

People can make the case that GL staying on the air for so long allowed some people to keep their jobs. The talent, maybe. But what about all those experienced camera people, those union crew people who were forced out of their jobs and replaced with those who could do the job for next to nothing? What about people like Maureen Garrett and Jerry VerDorn, who quit because they refused to be given scraps?

I'm so frustrated with Bibel(a blogger I like) for trying to spin this shit into gold. I see where she adds her points of objectivity(i.e. what about the writing and the heart of the scene and characters), but it makes me sick to read her trying to defend Wheeler's cost-cutting, having worked in production herself before being promoted as a writer, seeing how frustrated actors and directors are with shitty material and remembering the faces of the everyday, regular people who depend on this kind of work to put food on the table.

I could see if Bibel were blogging about a new soap or an internet show shooting in this style, but this is Guiding Fucking Light! A network television serial that used to be daring, fun, and lush; now shot in such an amateur, unprofessional way.

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As negative as some of the press has been, there's not another group who could do what we have done what was accomplished here.If you knew the amount of money we had compared to what we have now, it's astounding.


Give me the $5,000 they give you for a production budget, and I guarantee you I could create a better show. Now, if you mean accomplishment in terms of "ruining an American Insitution,"
then I'm SOL there.

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We shouldn't be on the air.


Something we finally agree on.

ETA: AND ANOTHER THING! Why is Wheeler wasting her time, inviting bloggers to the "set" of GL and paying for their trip and hotel when that $500-1000 could go into the budget, to keep mistakes like the snow/rain combination earlier this week from happening?

And I highly doubt Wheeler has four camera guys shooting every single angle of the show simultaneously. You can look at this show and tell where the editing is done because they likely only had a single camera. I am so sure that they don't have four cameras. I can totally buy maybe two cameras capturing everything, but four? She must be out of her damn mind to assume that people would buy that.
Edited by bellcurve, Dec 12 2008, 05:53 PM.
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RogerNewcomb
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I was there. I've written several blogs about my experiences and many more to come.

I think it was brilliant for GL to reach out to bloggers and the online community. I mean, GL gets more coverage from us than Soap Opera Digest or Weekly. Sure, not everything works that they are trying, but they are doing a lot and trying new things to stay on the air.

It's easy to forget these are real people sometimes and bashing online becomes a way of life, but when the bashing is so one-note it's hard to take it seriously. There is good and bad in everything. From our two days there, everyone is keenly aware of the issues the show has had and still has and they're working to correct it.

They could not tell us numbers, but I got the feeling GL's production budget is a small fraction of every other soap's. I wish people like Ken Corday cared half as much about saving their soaps as Wheeler does GL. It doesn't mean everything they try is going to work but some of these shows seem happy with the status quo and that's a lot worse to me.
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Mason


Wheeler doesn't care about preserving GL. She cares about preserving her vision of GL. Big difference.
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RogerNewcomb
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Mason
Dec 12 2008, 07:11 PM
Wheeler doesn't care about preserving GL. She cares about preserving her vision of GL. Big difference.
Is there anything you are enjoying on the show right now? Like Bill and Lizzie? Or Jeff Branson as Shayne?
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Mason


RogerNewcomb
Dec 12 2008, 07:15 PM
Mason
Dec 12 2008, 07:11 PM
Wheeler doesn't care about preserving GL. She cares about preserving her vision of GL. Big difference.
Is there anything you are enjoying on the show right now? Like Bill and Lizzie? Or Jeff Branson as Shayne?
I haven't watched GL in over a year. It got so bad that I finally just had to give up on it. And I've kept up with the spoilers for the most part, just to see if it got any better, but it's only gotten exponentially worse since I stopped watching.
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bellcurve
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RogerNewcomb
Dec 12 2008, 07:09 PM
I was there. I've written several blogs about my experiences and many more to come.

I love you Roger and I'll have to read what you wrote about this experience.

But do you agree or disagree that the money used to put you, Fairman, Bibel, and anyone else up in a hotel in NYC or Peapack and fly you guys out could have been better spent on stuff like continuity, lighting, maybe furnishing or developing another set?

Quote:
 
It's easy to forget these are real people sometimes and bashing online becomes a way of life, but when the bashing is so one-note it's hard to take it seriously. There is good and bad in everything. From our two days there, everyone is keenly aware of the issues the show has had and still has and they're working to correct it.


But everyone is a critic Roger! People on message boards even rip each others posts, likes and dislikes, to shreds or make snide comments.

And, not to sound arrogant, but I would far from call my bashing(or anyone else's) one-note. It wasn't just, "GL sucks." And while I do admit the production looks better now than it did when the format first started, it still doesn't make up for certain things(i.e. lack of sets, continuity errors and issues, improv-esque/on the fly writing).

I was a huge champion of Ellen Wheeler when I started watching GL December 2005. She produced the hell out of the limited budgets and eight sets she used, and I loved every minute of it. I was so proud to be a fan of hers and I was jumping up and down in my living room with her when they won all the awards in 2006.

But, it seems like, instead of letting a television instiution die with dignity, she and Bloom have decided to put their own miserable stamp on GL, at the expense of longterm fans who stood by this show through the stellar(Curlee/Demorest) and through the utterly awful(Conboy/Weston, Laibson/McTavish, etc.). It is embarrassing to be a soap fan and have people come up to me when they find out and ask why that one show looks like a home movie.

I would even support Wheeler/Bloom's agenda if they decided that a revamp was necessary,(i.e. Loving/The City) and they, along with the TeleNext brass, decided to change the title of the show. But this is GL.

So, Roger, with all due respect, please do not assume people who criticize GL are doing it to humor themselves or have "one note" things to say. They are doing the one and only thing they can, which is speak freely.

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They could not tell us numbers, but I got the feeling GL's production budget is a small fraction of every other soap's. I wish people like Ken Corday cared half as much about saving their soaps as Wheeler does GL. It doesn't mean everything they try is going to work but some of these shows seem happy with the status quo and that's a lot worse to me.


If you would have told me Ellen Wheeler wanted to save the soap in 2006 or even in 2007, I would have agreed with you. Wheeler, with this new format, is NOT saving the soap. She is embarassing herself and the talent at GL all for a measly paycheck. And it's pathethic.

There has to be a point in time when we all just step back and look at what we're doing and wondering if it's all worth it? Why should anyone be concerned about hurting Wheeler's feelings? Was she concerned about the feelings of the fans when she fired certain actors, allowed others to leave, and then used her power to prevent Ricky Paull and Beth Ehlers from mentioning their previous characters at their joint fan event, which was scheduled prior to their leaving GL? Was Wheeler so concerned about the feelings of those crew people and producers she let go, who have families to feed and mortgages/rent to pay? Yeah, I am aware those are network mandated cuts, but I hardly feel like Wheeler is losing any sleep over them. She's out in Jersey, producing her voyeurism.

I don't think Wheeler is the Anti-Christ, but at the end of the day, you have to take a certain level of responsibility for the work you do. Wheeler has been pulling the "Woe is GL," "LEAVE GL ALONE" card long enough.
Edited by bellcurve, Dec 12 2008, 07:59 PM.
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King
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GL *IS* a laughing stock of the industry. I don't know if they are aware of it or not, but they are. I met with one exec at ABC who flat out told me it was a joke.

The show is aesthetically one of the worst things I've seen on TV.
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RogerNewcomb
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IHeartDRRick
Dec 12 2008, 07:54 PM
Quote:
 
I love you Roger and I'll have to read what you wrote about this experience.

But do you agree or disagree that the money used to put you, Fairman, Bibel, and anyone else up in a hotel in NYC or Peapack and fly you guys out could have been better spent on stuff like continuity, lighting, maybe furnishing or developing another set?


LOL, why thank you! :) I actually think bringing in people who report on soaps from the online community was a stroke of genious, and not just because I was one of the people involved. First of all, it wasn't huge bucks to fly these folks in and put them up for a couple of days. In all forms of entertainment you need to have promotion and buzz and good reporting. I'm not sure GL (or ATWT) will ever get another SOD cover on newsstands for the rest of their runs and not to bash the soap print press, but most of the interviews I read with any execs in the magazines fuming and thinking they are very anti-fans. So I think it's a matter of bang for the buck. Each of us has already written about the show and gained a better understanding of what's going on and can hopefully do a better job than SOD, SOW or SID can do with covering the show. Ellen Wheeler said something I totally agree with - she wishes the soap community as a whole (press, industry, fans, etc) loved the genre more. Sometimes on a lot of these shows and with people in the press, I wonder if they really do give a care if the genre collapses.

Quote:
 
But everyone is a critic Roger! People on message boards even rip each others posts, likes and dislikes, to shreds or make snide comments.

And, not to sound arrogant, but I would far from call my bashing(or anyone else's) one-note. It wasn't just, "GL sucks." And while I do admit the production looks better now than it did when the format first started, it still doesn't make up for certain things(i.e. lack of sets, continuity errors and issues, improv-esque/on the fly writing).

So, Roger, with all due respect, please do not assume people who criticize GL are doing it to humor themselves or have "one note" things to say. They are doing the one and only thing they can, which is speak freely.


I hear ya. I wasn't trying to speak for anyone who says negative things the show. But even in this thread someone admitted to not even watching in over a year. I just like to hear the good with the bad. It's never all bad or all good. I really enjoy a constructive debate, but sometimes it seems like some people have it in their minds to hate a show and will find the negative angle of any decision. You can't really have a productive discussion unless both sides are willing to see each other's point of view. We can't change the past mistakes or even the fact that they were forced to go to this production model with little time and had learn on national TV which must have sucked. But that was the hand they were dealt and people are trying to stay upbeat. It's not the 80s, they don't have tons of money and they are trying to create something new. Unfortunately there is no hiatus so there's no time for anyone to take six months and come up with absolute best plan and take it from there so there are lots of hits and misses. I'm hoping with some of the upcoming returns there will be more hits. We shall see.
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Mason


Yes, I did admit to not watching in over a year (with very good reason). What difference does that make? Is my opinion any less valid just because I haven't been watching this shit play out onscreen?
Edited by Mason, Dec 12 2008, 09:11 PM.
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bellcurve
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RogerNewcomb
Dec 12 2008, 09:06 PM
I'm not sure GL (or ATWT) will ever get another SOD cover on newsstands for the rest of their runs and not to bash the soap print press, but most of the interviews I read with any execs in the magazines fuming and thinking they are very anti-fans. So I think it's a matter of bang for the buck. Each of us has already written about the show and gained a better understanding of what's going on and can hopefully do a better job than SOD, SOW or SID can do with covering the show. Ellen Wheeler said something I totally agree with - she wishes the soap community as a whole (press, industry, fans, etc) loved the genre more. Sometimes on a lot of these shows and with people in the press, I wonder if they really do give a care if the genre collapses.
But where is AMC's, OLTL's, or B&B's cover? Those covers don't sell well for the mags either.

And, I understand what Wheeler is saying, but I am having a difficult time understanding the logic with what I am seeing on the screen and based on stuff that has been reported by actors and fans. No one wants the soap industry to collapse, Roger. But, don't you agree that at some point and time, we all just have to look at the product and go, "Hey, it's been a great 30 years, 70 years, etc., but it's time to let go."? Even Michael Jordan had to retire eventually, and he did it after he embarassed himself coming out of retirement for that one last time.

It may not be Wheeler's fault that GL had to endure such severe budget cuts, but I also think it is unfair of her to play the pity card, expecting fans and those in the daytime community to feel sorry for her.

Quote:
 
I hear ya. I wasn't trying to speak for anyone who says negative things the show. But even in this thread someone admitted to not even watching in over a year.


Quote:
 
Unfortunately there is no hiatus so there's no time for anyone to take six months and come up with absolute best plan and take it from there so there are lots of hits and misses. I'm hoping with some of the upcoming returns there will be more hits. We shall see.


I want to take a wager that Mason has seen at least one full episode of GL. Everyone was just a little curious about the New GL, whether it is good or bad. And I am sure Mason, just like others, have seen random clips displaying the severity of GL's reality. Maybe he hasn't watched consistently in over a year, but I probably wouldn't have replied to this thread had I not been watching a few GL clips and episodes here and there.

It offends me that Wheeler would assume viewers wouldn't notice or care to notice that Dinah was in Germany(thank you Graphics Department) walking on a bridge...the SAME bridge Reva and Jonathan were walking on when he decided to leave Springfield again. It offends me that Wheeler and her production coordinator didn't work out the details of the weather in Peapack, NJ, during Marina and Mallet's wedding. Is it raining? Snowing? Is there sun in the sky with a bikini clad Daisy and Ashlee? With GL, it can do all three of these things at once, and no one will notice or care. It offends me that Wheeler has had almost a year(two years if you count the test shows RE: Reva and Lizzie at the Ramada in Red Hook, the show where everyone in Springfield was being drugged and losing their memory, the parking garage/trapped in the mall episode, etc.) to make this format work and she still has not gotten her shit together. And it offends me that Wheeler would call this low-budget, MTV experiment of hers a soap opera!

And why is she not shooting in HD? She's using cheap, student cameras to shoot the show, why didn't she bother getting with the times and using HD friendly equipment?

I understand your position, Roger. I do. I respect your opinion. But every time I watch an episode of GL, I feel like it is an embarrassment of riches.

I think it's too late now. Even if GL were to miraculously become a well written, more cohesive show, this first year on the air has scarred them for life.

I'm sorry I keep writing. It just pisses me off to think that there are executives who are even contemplaing resorting to GL's lows. That's not saving the genre, Roger. That's pushing the person on life-support six feet under without a casket, a respectable funeral, or even a thought of how that person feels.
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daysfan
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As Mason sorta said, what set is there to even VISIT? GL has no set, just its fields, cars, and barns. :P
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RogerNewcomb
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daysfan
Dec 12 2008, 10:01 PM
As Mason sorta said, what set is there to even VISIT? GL has no set, just its fields, cars, and barns. :P
Guiding Light now has more sets than any other soap.
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Mikegoldy
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RogerNewcomb
Dec 12 2008, 10:04 PM
daysfan
Dec 12 2008, 10:01 PM
As Mason sorta said, what set is there to even VISIT? GL has no set, just its fields, cars, and barns. :P
Guiding Light now has more sets than any other soap.
Roger, loved your blog, and really appreciate the passion you have for GL. There is good and bad in everything. Yes, GL has lots it can still work on. But at some point, you have to take a chance, and that is what GL did. To be honest, there is a lot I'm not very fond of on the show. But then I see scenes with Zimmer and Newman, Cosgrove and Ryan; the return of Grant Aleksander... It's very hard to have a debate about something when someone says that a product is 100% awful. It become pointless.
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jane1978


RogerNewcomb
Dec 12 2008, 07:09 PM
They could not tell us numbers, but I got the feeling GL's production budget is a small fraction of every other soap's. I wish people like Ken Corday cared half as much about saving their soaps as Wheeler does GL. It doesn't mean everything they try is going to work but some of these shows seem happy with the status quo and that's a lot worse to me.
I hope DAYS will try the same production model eventually. Using digital cameras and real sets doesnīt mean the scenes have to be jumpy and the scripts disjointed. You can still use the classic three camera way of shooting and keep experienced camera guys and editors, and still save millions just for the electricity bills.

DAYS sets looks like some old Hollywood movie studio. Everything is outdated, everything is huge and demanding, and there is so many asistants and staff people and technicians. Itīs really not needed anymore. Nowadays all what you need is a few computers, some AVID software and HDD cameras.
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King
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I couldn't disagree more. I hope DAYS Never, ever uses this method EVER.

I don't expect them too. Every show but GL has realized this is a monumental failure.
Edited by King, Dec 13 2008, 12:55 PM.
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Mason


King
Dec 13 2008, 12:55 PM
I couldn't disagree more. I hope DAYS Never, ever uses this method EVER.

I don't expect them too. Every show but GL has realized this is a monumental failure.
I so agree. If anything, GL has just shown the other soaps what NOT to do. I don't want Corday to so much as consider using this production method.
Edited by Mason, Dec 13 2008, 01:14 PM.
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bellcurve
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King
Dec 13 2008, 12:55 PM
I couldn't disagree more. I hope DAYS Never, ever uses this method EVER.

I don't expect them too. Every show but GL has realized this is a monumental failure.
I would love for DAYS to do more location shoots and even try to rebuild/repair Salem Place, so they can use that huge shopping center again. But I would never want them to sink to PGP/Telenext Media's lows by using those terrible student film cameras.

Quote:
 
I hope DAYS will try the same production model eventually. Using digital cameras and real sets doesnīt mean the scenes have to be jumpy and the scripts disjointed. You can still use the classic three camera way of shooting and keep experienced camera guys and editors, and still save millions just for the electricity bills.

DAYS sets looks like some old Hollywood movie studio. Everything is outdated, everything is huge and demanding, and there is so many asistants and staff people and technicians. Itīs really not needed anymore. Nowadays all what you need is a few computers, some AVID software and HDD cameras.


This would be great for an internet show or for something on the Sundance Channel or even MTV. But DAYS would be embarrassing themselves even more if they abandoned the three wall sets, the control rooms, the directors booth, all in some last ditch effort to save the genre and save the shows.

King is right: GL is a laughingstock all over the industry.
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