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DAYS: John Callahan now on contract
Topic Started: Dec 14 2008, 05:04 PM (3,981 Views)
Ellie


^ lol we'll have to agree to disagree here too. I think endings like the one I want are part of the solution to the show's issues, not part of the problem. But I really don't want to get into the whole 'fanbase' discussion here because I know we have basic disagreements on that too, haha. Either way, I bet the show will go with an ending more like the one you want!
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Kyrai


PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 02:05 PM
Well, I understand that but, to me, it's more fanbase pandering at the expense of the characters given how things are and is part of the reason the show is in the mess it's in. I mean, I see people complain about the writing yet some are proposing something that falls into that, at least IMO, just because two characters are leaving.

Then again, you do have a point. They are leaving and you want to make the fans happy. However, I just think it's better to handle it how I suggested. It seems to have a much bigger impact. It's probably because I'm not a die-hard fan and I've never been one for the "live and breathe" a certain couple or character mentality.

Who knows. They may not really be leaving entirely anyway so that could play a part too (and this is my persona assessment so I know people will disagree LOL).

You know, if these writers were doing any of this 'ethical' writing or following of history or continuity or character integrity in ANY other storyline I might agree with you, but the writing never makes sense anymore.

It is pure garbage. So now with a couple who has been a favorite of many for twenty plus years is leaving the canvas, while no other story has to follow any kind of guidelines, we need to stick it to the J&M fans.

Let's forget early on this year, Marlena tried to help him with hypnosis. Stefano/Rolf ERASED his brain and put them on a disk, so it was understandable that she couldn't restore his memories. But now a new psychiatrist will come in and ride to John's rescue where Marlena couldn't. After all these years of always coming through for each other, the last story is about Marlena failing while another psychiatrist sweeps in and saves the day.

Why do we need to bring a new psychiatrist to fix his brain when we have Kayla who was originally supposed to help him anyway and could do it from a medical standpoint vs. slapping Marlena fans in the face as an exit present?

Is that such a huge stretch to the story or does it just mean we use an existing contract player who happens to be a vet vs. a new character who really isn't needed? Especially if its NOT a slap in the face to the fans and it makes more sense anyway for Kayla to help him medically?

I've tried to be open-minded and let the story play out, assuming that they had originally planned some kind of triangle since it's the only thing these writers can think of (too bad they don't even do this well), but I think we have the right to question things when it's obvious we're being lied to.

They say they have to cut costs 40% and have to let J&M go, but they keep hiring new contract actors. Not budget newbies either, but veteran actors who most likely cost more than newbies.

If they are getting rid of J&M as the start of getting rid of fanbases, then just say it, but don't keep lying and saying it's financial when they aren't cutting costs that they logically should be trying to trim IF they really are in such a huge budget crisis.

And I'm sorry if I happen to be a J&M fan, but I think if anyone on this board was losing a favorite, and it was explained as a strictly budget issue, they'd be upset at being lied to as well. I'm tired of every wrong thing in the world being blamed on J&M and their fans. There are a lot of things wrong with the show, namely moronic leadership, but a lot of factors. We are not the root of all evil.





Edited by Kyrai, Dec 15 2008, 03:04 PM.
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Mikegoldy
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Ponz
Dec 15 2008, 08:08 AM
Drew
Dec 15 2008, 01:21 AM
People are getting too obsessed with the contract statuses of actors on these shows. Why's so and so not on contract, why's this person, bla bla bla.

The money being spent on Callahan doesnt compare to what was spent on Hall and Hogestyn, and as has been mentioned several times is just a business decision to protect the show during a short term role to keep them from having to recast or abreviate their story should the actor leave. Its something done in primetime when an actor's signed to a deal for a set number of episodes, as well as all the other soaps.



I don't care about Callahan's contract status or his earnings relative to D&D. That debate was just a catalyst to discuss Higley's creative approach to principal vs. non principal characters.

Quote:
 
Why should Kayla or Dan be doing something out of character like blackmailing Nicole with a baby scam, just cause their actors already have contracts?! That makes absolutely no sense, even considering this is Days and Dena Higley.


Who said anything about Kayla "blackmailing" Nicole? Doctors, lawyers etc. are confronted with this dillemma on a regular basis. If any Kayla fans think the story would be wildly out of character, I'd like to hear from them.

In any event, the claim that Dr. Baker's role can only be filled by a non-principal character would be easier to swallow if Higley didn't display the same trait throughout her stories (e.g. why use Dr. Taylor for a role that Marlena could easily perform?). It's one thing for writers to employ short-term characters out of necessity but Higley clearly enjoys flooding the canvas with them.
The idea that Marlena should ever have been the one to help John through therapy over the years is beyond ridiculous. There is something called conflict of Interest.
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Mikegoldy
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I just don't know what the major issue is. The show needed a shady doctor for the Nicole story and put him on contract so he will be available for the entire duration of the story. Nothing DAYS does anymore is going to be accepted. I think it's out of control. And yet, respect the opinion of everyone.
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Kyrai


goldylicious
Dec 15 2008, 03:21 PM
I just don't know what the major issue is. The show needed a shady doctor for the Nicole story and put him on contract so he will be available for the entire duration of the story. Nothing DAYS does anymore is going to be accepted. I think it's out of control. And yet, respect the opinion of everyone.
Generally, people watch soaps to watch the characters they like. It makes sense to write for the regular characters of the show. If these writers continually add new characters left and right while claiming they have to cut budget, and not writing stories for the characters that they already have, why have regular characters?

If fans are clamoring for more Steve and Kayla, does it make sense to bring in an outside doctor and give them story, but have Kayla appear once every blue moon? If so, then I'd say they'll eventually replace every vet because if writing a story for a new contract character over an established character people love is the norm, why bother paying the established characters for random appearances that add nothing to the stories the writers come up with?

Why write for random characters, if you can take the characters you have and use them well AND have that connection to family, friends that is already established? It may be harder, but it's what writers should do to build relationships and history to begin with imo. If they are cutting costs, I think there is more incentive than ever to use what you have when you can.
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Mikegoldy
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Kyrai
Dec 15 2008, 03:44 PM
goldylicious
Dec 15 2008, 03:21 PM
I just don't know what the major issue is. The show needed a shady doctor for the Nicole story and put him on contract so he will be available for the entire duration of the story. Nothing DAYS does anymore is going to be accepted. I think it's out of control. And yet, respect the opinion of everyone.
Generally, people watch soaps to watch the characters they like. It makes sense to write for the regular characters of the show. If these writers continually add new characters left and right while claiming they have to cut budget, and not writing stories for the characters that they already have, why have regular characters?

If fans are clamoring for more Steve and Kayla, does it make sense to bring in an outside doctor and give them story, but have Kayla appear once every blue moon? If so, then I'd say they'll eventually replace every vet because if writing a story for a new contract character over an established character people love is the norm, why bother paying the established characters for random appearances that add nothing to the stories the writers come up with?

Why write for random characters, if you can take the characters you have and use them well AND have that connection to family, friends that is already established? It may be harder, but it's what writers should do to build relationships and history to begin with imo. If they are cutting costs, I think there is more incentive than ever to use what you have when you can.
But they are determined to tell this Nicole story, and I don't buy that Daniel or Kayla could be involved with the deception and then blackmail her, nor would I buy that Kayla has the credentials to help John through his issues. I get that we want to see our favorite characters on screen. This is a short term character that was needed to facilitate the Nicole baby story; that's it.
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Kyrai


goldylicious
Dec 15 2008, 04:04 PM
Kyrai
Dec 15 2008, 03:44 PM
goldylicious
Dec 15 2008, 03:21 PM
I just don't know what the major issue is. The show needed a shady doctor for the Nicole story and put him on contract so he will be available for the entire duration of the story. Nothing DAYS does anymore is going to be accepted. I think it's out of control. And yet, respect the opinion of everyone.
Generally, people watch soaps to watch the characters they like. It makes sense to write for the regular characters of the show. If these writers continually add new characters left and right while claiming they have to cut budget, and not writing stories for the characters that they already have, why have regular characters?

If fans are clamoring for more Steve and Kayla, does it make sense to bring in an outside doctor and give them story, but have Kayla appear once every blue moon? If so, then I'd say they'll eventually replace every vet because if writing a story for a new contract character over an established character people love is the norm, why bother paying the established characters for random appearances that add nothing to the stories the writers come up with?

Why write for random characters, if you can take the characters you have and use them well AND have that connection to family, friends that is already established? It may be harder, but it's what writers should do to build relationships and history to begin with imo. If they are cutting costs, I think there is more incentive than ever to use what you have when you can.
But they are determined to tell this Nicole story, and I don't buy that Daniel or Kayla could be involved with the deception and then blackmail her, nor would I buy that Kayla has the credentials to help John through his issues. I get that we want to see our favorite characters on screen. This is a short term character that was needed to facilitate the Nicole baby story; that's it.
Thats my point. They are determined to Nicole's story using a contract character vs. modifying it a bit to use Kayla. Imo, it could be a better story with Kayla.

This could be tied to a Kayla story with her quandary over doctor/patient confidentiality. If Marlena confides in Kayla about Ej really being in love with Sami, there's a quandary for Kayla in regards to her friendship with Marlena OR she could be relieved that at least keeping her doctor's oath is keeping that dreaded Ej away from that Sami. Any number of ways they could play it. Have Steve find out about Sami, and throw him into the mix. I admit I totally dislike GG and the whole WP story, but it might have been fun seeing Steve have to protect Sami. She'd be dead by now, and I'd be out of my misery. (j/k)

If they also had Kayla in place of Dr. Charlotte we'd get to see Kayla helping John. More good storyline potential because
(A) she has history with Steve/Ava, so she'd be a good one for him to talk to as it could be an outlet for her feelings and his
(B) she's 'traditionally' at least at one time, thought of John as a brother, so she'd be vested about his welfare, particularly since she helped take John's kidney. She may not have had any choice, but the loving caring Kayla I always knew would have angsted over that.
(C) She's not a psychiatrist so it's not a slap in the face to Marlena fans that the last storyline she had on the show was one where she failed the love of her life while another shrink helped him. Kayla could help him from a medical standpoint of fixing his brain patterns.
(D) Steve could go with Marlena to knock Rolf around to get the info Kayla needed to save John. They could retrieve the files, Kayla analyze it, it could be a race the clock scenario to save John before time runs out.
(E) Ej could try to stop Steve from roughing up Rolf and we could have an exciting fight scene. (OK, probably not, but I miss fun fight scenes).

OR John could actually change to the pawn. Steve, Bo and company fight with John while Kayla tries to inject him with the cure. One last fight scene for John to go out on. As our guys are fighting and it's all over the place, chairs flying, vases smashing, Kayla and Marlena dodging trying to get a shot in John while Steve and Bo try to stop him. They get the shot in John, he comes around to his old self with Steve, Bo as himself and realizes what has happened. Then he goes and kicks Stefano's ass one last time... sorry, got carried away. My point being there are NUMEROUS possibilities that didn't require paying a new contract, possibly two or even three.

I can see numerous possibilities, but the writers don't want to tie in others, they just want to tell the Nicole story and take another smack at Marlena by bringing in an unneeded shrink to upstage her. It's a shame that someone who historically was such a wonderful, empathetic, caring, intelligent psychiatrist is ending like this when it would actually be a better story if done with some care.

Edited by Kyrai, Dec 15 2008, 04:50 PM.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Just one question: GL, with all its financial problems...........is it bringing in new characters, too?
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Kyrai
Dec 15 2008, 03:01 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 02:05 PM
Well, I understand that but, to me, it's more fanbase pandering at the expense of the characters given how things are and is part of the reason the show is in the mess it's in. I mean, I see people complain about the writing yet some are proposing something that falls into that, at least IMO, just because two characters are leaving.

Then again, you do have a point. They are leaving and you want to make the fans happy. However, I just think it's better to handle it how I suggested. It seems to have a much bigger impact. It's probably because I'm not a die-hard fan and I've never been one for the "live and breathe" a certain couple or character mentality.

Who knows. They may not really be leaving entirely anyway so that could play a part too (and this is my persona assessment so I know people will disagree LOL).

You know, if these writers were doing any of this 'ethical' writing or following of history or continuity or character integrity in ANY other storyline I might agree with you, but the writing never makes sense anymore.

It is pure garbage. So now with a couple who has been a favorite of many for twenty plus years is leaving the canvas, while no other story has to follow any kind of guidelines, we need to stick it to the J&M fans.

Let's forget early on this year, Marlena tried to help him with hypnosis. Stefano/Rolf ERASED his brain and put them on a disk, so it was understandable that she couldn't restore his memories. But now a new psychiatrist will come in and ride to John's rescue where Marlena couldn't. After all these years of always coming through for each other, the last story is about Marlena failing while another psychiatrist sweeps in and saves the day.

Why do we need to bring a new psychiatrist to fix his brain when we have Kayla who was originally supposed to help him anyway and could do it from a medical standpoint vs. slapping Marlena fans in the face as an exit present?

Is that such a huge stretch to the story or does it just mean we use an existing contract player who happens to be a vet vs. a new character who really isn't needed? Especially if its NOT a slap in the face to the fans and it makes more sense anyway for Kayla to help him medically?

I've tried to be open-minded and let the story play out, assuming that they had originally planned some kind of triangle since it's the only thing these writers can think of (too bad they don't even do this well), but I think we have the right to question things when it's obvious we're being lied to.

They say they have to cut costs 40% and have to let J&M go, but they keep hiring new contract actors. Not budget newbies either, but veteran actors who most likely cost more than newbies.

If they are getting rid of J&M as the start of getting rid of fanbases, then just say it, but don't keep lying and saying it's financial when they aren't cutting costs that they logically should be trying to trim IF they really are in such a huge budget crisis.

And I'm sorry if I happen to be a J&M fan, but I think if anyone on this board was losing a favorite, and it was explained as a strictly budget issue, they'd be upset at being lied to as well. I'm tired of every wrong thing in the world being blamed on J&M and their fans. There are a lot of things wrong with the show, namely moronic leadership, but a lot of factors. We are not the root of all evil.





I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone else had did not have the right to complain. I understand where the J&M fans are coming from but there are also some fans who have been raging psychos the past few years. Not on here byt they are out there and that is more or less why I have a problem with the fanbases. It's not everyone in them but the ones who give then all a bad name.

As I said, it doesn't bother me because I'm a fan of the show and not just J&M. That is the fundamental difference here.

I agree with Goldy. There is too many problems with using Nicole and Daniel in this. Not only that but if they are having financial troubles, they aren't going to want to use Kayla, at least until MBE takes a cut and they get things settled. That is why they wouldn't want to use her right now.
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FanODays


PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 01:07 PM
FanODays
Dec 15 2008, 12:59 PM
ladyofthelake
Dec 15 2008, 12:23 PM
FanODays
Dec 15 2008, 09:47 AM
The bottom line for me is that I don't care about this show anymore. I watch bits and pieces here and there but that is it. Its also pretty damned clear to me that this is beginning of the official end of Days (and perhaps NBC). I've seen nothing that leads me to believe there will be an improvement in the quality of the show or anything done to bring viewers back. Therefore Days will continue to hover around 2.0 in the ratings at best.

The economy is bad for everyone and costs are being cut but I also see alot of businesses doing things to lure new customers, sales, specials, rewards programs, etc. but not with Days. I've been saying it for years but Corday clearly doesn't get it and after the show that his parents started has been cancelled, he can continue to find others to blame, but I will always blame him.
Is it POSSIBLE, misguided or not, that adding these new faces to the canvas is a way to draw in NEW viewers? So many posters here see things through the eyes of a viewer of many years who has already been shat on too many times. Maybe they're looking to new viewers. I'm not sure where they'll find them. It's like any market plan for businesses.....some make it and some fail. By hiring these actors from other soaps, it could be that TPTB are trying to draw in the fans of these actors.
Businesses do it all the time. Unfortunately, not all their plans pan out. Remember the banking and auto industries?
You could be right but if you are then the plan doesn't seem like a good one, not if you read boards where there is a lot of chatter about not caring about the new characters, wanting to see more of old ones, and boredom in general. Yes new products could help a failing company but the products must be of a certain quality which seems to be missing here.
And the boards are not a complete reflection of the whole viewing audience, just like the ratings (which show Days up vs last year but I digress). Someone is always left out like the person with no Nielson box or the person who doesn't go online to boards or the person who doesn't speak on boards for whatever reason. Not to mention many of the boards are fanbase-affiliated. Believe me, there are people out there who are not being heard or represented. Days DVR numbers in Sara Bibel's blog were very good, for example. It just goes to show you that while many are mad, just as many aren't and are watching the show. Hell, some people mad might be.

I agree with ladyofthelake and Drew. New characters are needed sometimes and people would be bitching if Kayla was involved in a scheme like that. Daniel would make sense but he would probably make people hate the story so why bother?

I also find it hilarious that some think Marlena should be fulfilling Charlotte's role because that would be unethical. Given how close Marlena is to John, it would be a major conflict and not good to do at all. Kayla pointed that out to her too the other day. This isn't the 80's or the 90's. J&M are not just getting to know each other or are in a place where they can work through something like this the proper way Marlena is not an unbiased party and her behavior has proven that she can't take this on properly without making it worse so how does it make sense to use Marlena? Maybe Dena could've brought back Laura Horton or some other past psychiatrist but using Marlena would've been stupid.
Days needs to do better than they are or else they will be cancelled (even though I think that decision has already been made), and that is the bottom line. The ratings may be up from last year but they still suck. New characters are fine, I agree with that but the big, big, big problem is that the writing for them sucks. They are cartoonish at times, annoying at others, and overall not really drawing in new viewers which should be the goal of Days. If all they set out to do is to save money then the show will be gone perhaps sooner than expected.

I get that there may be people out there watching, but the overall buzz is gone and boredom and criticism is at an all time high. Days has got to go beyond not making people mad, they need to get people interested and tuning back in.
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zyona


I am very curious who his accountants or his financial advisors are? Why don't they stop him before he destroys his parent legacy to the ground, where no one can save it for him.
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PhoenixRising05
Member Avatar
GET EM STEPH!!

FanODays
Dec 15 2008, 05:52 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 01:07 PM
FanODays
Dec 15 2008, 12:59 PM
ladyofthelake
Dec 15 2008, 12:23 PM
FanODays
Dec 15 2008, 09:47 AM
The bottom line for me is that I don't care about this show anymore. I watch bits and pieces here and there but that is it. Its also pretty damned clear to me that this is beginning of the official end of Days (and perhaps NBC). I've seen nothing that leads me to believe there will be an improvement in the quality of the show or anything done to bring viewers back. Therefore Days will continue to hover around 2.0 in the ratings at best.

The economy is bad for everyone and costs are being cut but I also see alot of businesses doing things to lure new customers, sales, specials, rewards programs, etc. but not with Days. I've been saying it for years but Corday clearly doesn't get it and after the show that his parents started has been cancelled, he can continue to find others to blame, but I will always blame him.
Is it POSSIBLE, misguided or not, that adding these new faces to the canvas is a way to draw in NEW viewers? So many posters here see things through the eyes of a viewer of many years who has already been shat on too many times. Maybe they're looking to new viewers. I'm not sure where they'll find them. It's like any market plan for businesses.....some make it and some fail. By hiring these actors from other soaps, it could be that TPTB are trying to draw in the fans of these actors.
Businesses do it all the time. Unfortunately, not all their plans pan out. Remember the banking and auto industries?
You could be right but if you are then the plan doesn't seem like a good one, not if you read boards where there is a lot of chatter about not caring about the new characters, wanting to see more of old ones, and boredom in general. Yes new products could help a failing company but the products must be of a certain quality which seems to be missing here.
And the boards are not a complete reflection of the whole viewing audience, just like the ratings (which show Days up vs last year but I digress). Someone is always left out like the person with no Nielson box or the person who doesn't go online to boards or the person who doesn't speak on boards for whatever reason. Not to mention many of the boards are fanbase-affiliated. Believe me, there are people out there who are not being heard or represented. Days DVR numbers in Sara Bibel's blog were very good, for example. It just goes to show you that while many are mad, just as many aren't and are watching the show. Hell, some people mad might be.

I agree with ladyofthelake and Drew. New characters are needed sometimes and people would be bitching if Kayla was involved in a scheme like that. Daniel would make sense but he would probably make people hate the story so why bother?

I also find it hilarious that some think Marlena should be fulfilling Charlotte's role because that would be unethical. Given how close Marlena is to John, it would be a major conflict and not good to do at all. Kayla pointed that out to her too the other day. This isn't the 80's or the 90's. J&M are not just getting to know each other or are in a place where they can work through something like this the proper way Marlena is not an unbiased party and her behavior has proven that she can't take this on properly without making it worse so how does it make sense to use Marlena? Maybe Dena could've brought back Laura Horton or some other past psychiatrist but using Marlena would've been stupid.
Days needs to do better than they are or else they will be cancelled (even though I think that decision has already been made), and that is the bottom line. The ratings may be up from last year but they still suck. New characters are fine, I agree with that but the big, big, big problem is that the writing for them sucks. They are cartoonish at times, annoying at others, and overall not really drawing in new viewers which should be the goal of Days. If all they set out to do is to save money then the show will be gone perhaps sooner than expected.

I get that there may be people out there watching, but the overall buzz is gone and boredom and criticism is at an all time high. Days has got to go beyond not making people mad, they need to get people interested and tuning back in.
People thought they would be cancelled this time and they got an 18 month renewal. Until the show actually gets canceled, I won't believe it. It's been on the brink since 1998 and that was when it was 2nd in HH.

Boredom and criticism may be high on DR and some other boards but what about off the boards? What about those on boards many don't frequent? What about those that don't count in the ratings or don't speak up on boards? Someone out there is enjoying and watching and that is my point. Not saying all is right with the world but something must be working with some people out there.
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Kyrai


PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 02:05 PM
Well, I understand that but, to me, it's more fanbase pandering at the expense of the characters given how things are and is part of the reason the show is in the mess it's in. I mean, I see people complain about the writing yet some are proposing something that falls into that, at least IMO, just because two characters are leaving.

Then again, you do have a point. They are leaving and you want to make the fans happy. However, I just think it's better to handle it how I suggested. It seems to have a much bigger impact. It's probably because I'm not a die-hard fan and I've never been one for the "live and breathe" a certain couple or character mentality.

Who knows. They may not really be leaving entirely anyway so that could play a part too (and this is my persona assessment so I know people will disagree LOL).

What I'm reading here is, (Figurative you, not 'you' you)

If you complained about the awful writing this year (in my case, specifically characters not being true to history), you CAN'T ask for a decent meaningful J&M ending in the context of the history that we've enjoyed over the years.

But if you justified every plot inconsistency and character assassination during the year no matter how lame because you just wanted to enjoy the show, you CAN categorically say you can't give J&M a nice ending after all these years because it wouldn't make sense.

Also, apparently, you can't ask that the story have been done differently so that it wouldn't be insulting to twenty year fans because that's fanbase. To NOT give fans something that makes sense because it would be nice for the fans is Anti-fanbase. Anti-fanbase can be just as biased and unappealing as fanbase. You shouldn't cow-tow to fans, but you shouldn't slap them in the face either.

I don't think the way you suggested has anything but negative impact. John gets his memory back with Charlotte and goes to tell Marlena. It is incredibly anti-climactic and a very poor send-off to the point of insulting to me.
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e83talus
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Kyrai
Dec 15 2008, 06:50 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 02:05 PM
Well, I understand that but, to me, it's more fanbase pandering at the expense of the characters given how things are and is part of the reason the show is in the mess it's in. I mean, I see people complain about the writing yet some are proposing something that falls into that, at least IMO, just because two characters are leaving.

Then again, you do have a point. They are leaving and you want to make the fans happy. However, I just think it's better to handle it how I suggested. It seems to have a much bigger impact. It's probably because I'm not a die-hard fan and I've never been one for the "live and breathe" a certain couple or character mentality.

Who knows. They may not really be leaving entirely anyway so that could play a part too (and this is my persona assessment so I know people will disagree LOL).

What I'm reading here is, (Figurative you, not 'you' you)

If you complained about the awful writing this year (in my case, specifically characters not being true to history), you CAN'T ask for a decent meaningful J&M ending in the context of the history that we've enjoyed over the years.

But if you justified every plot inconsistency and character assassination during the year no matter how lame because you just wanted to enjoy the show, you CAN categorically say you can't give J&M a nice ending after all these years because it wouldn't make sense.

Also, apparently, you can't ask that the story have been done differently so that it wouldn't be insulting to twenty year fans because that's fanbase. To NOT give fans something that makes sense because it would be nice for the fans is Anti-fanbase. Anti-fanbase can be just as biased and unappealing as fanbase. You shouldn't cow-tow to fans, but you shouldn't slap them in the face either.

I don't think the way you suggested has anything but negative impact. John gets his memory back with Charlotte and goes to tell Marlena. It is incredibly anti-climactic and a very poor send-off to the point of insulting to me.
Strangely enough I followed that. LOL ;)
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Kyrai
Dec 15 2008, 06:50 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 02:05 PM
Well, I understand that but, to me, it's more fanbase pandering at the expense of the characters given how things are and is part of the reason the show is in the mess it's in. I mean, I see people complain about the writing yet some are proposing something that falls into that, at least IMO, just because two characters are leaving.

Then again, you do have a point. They are leaving and you want to make the fans happy. However, I just think it's better to handle it how I suggested. It seems to have a much bigger impact. It's probably because I'm not a die-hard fan and I've never been one for the "live and breathe" a certain couple or character mentality.

Who knows. They may not really be leaving entirely anyway so that could play a part too (and this is my persona assessment so I know people will disagree LOL).

What I'm reading here is, (Figurative you, not 'you' you)

If you complained about the awful writing this year (in my case, specifically characters not being true to history), you CAN'T ask for a decent meaningful J&M ending in the context of the history that we've enjoyed over the years.

But if you justified every plot inconsistency and character assassination during the year no matter how lame because you just wanted to enjoy the show, you CAN categorically say you can't give J&M a nice ending after all these years because it wouldn't make sense.

Also, apparently, you can't ask that the story have been done differently so that it wouldn't be insulting to twenty year fans because that's fanbase. To NOT give fans something that makes sense because it would be nice for the fans is Anti-fanbase. Anti-fanbase can be just as biased and unappealing as fanbase. You shouldn't cow-tow to fans, but you shouldn't slap them in the face either.

I don't think the way you suggested has anything but negative impact. John gets his memory back with Charlotte and goes to tell Marlena. It is incredibly anti-climactic and a very poor send-off to the point of insulting to me.
I never said anyone can't do anything.

All I gave was my personal view and what I thought would be best.. If you all think it's best to go another way, that's fine. I'm just looking at the whole picture and responding based on what I know and what I see.

I never meant to offend or make it sound like you all don't have a right to complain. It's just that the Drake and Dee ouster has been discussed to death and it seems every thread or most of them ends up being about them. It's just frustrating. Yes, it's a big deal and all but a simple issue like someone being placed on contract for storyline purposes only got turned into this big deal when it's not even close to being one. The same thing happened in 2007 too when people were placed on contract for similar reasons. It's just overblown IMO.

I think I'm just going to back out now because we've all been down this road before and know where we stand.
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Kyrai


e83talus
Dec 15 2008, 06:54 PM
Kyrai
Dec 15 2008, 06:50 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 02:05 PM
Well, I understand that but, to me, it's more fanbase pandering at the expense of the characters given how things are and is part of the reason the show is in the mess it's in. I mean, I see people complain about the writing yet some are proposing something that falls into that, at least IMO, just because two characters are leaving.

Then again, you do have a point. They are leaving and you want to make the fans happy. However, I just think it's better to handle it how I suggested. It seems to have a much bigger impact. It's probably because I'm not a die-hard fan and I've never been one for the "live and breathe" a certain couple or character mentality.

Who knows. They may not really be leaving entirely anyway so that could play a part too (and this is my persona assessment so I know people will disagree LOL).

What I'm reading here is, (Figurative you, not 'you' you)

If you complained about the awful writing this year (in my case, specifically characters not being true to history), you CAN'T ask for a decent meaningful J&M ending in the context of the history that we've enjoyed over the years.

But if you justified every plot inconsistency and character assassination during the year no matter how lame because you just wanted to enjoy the show, you CAN categorically say you can't give J&M a nice ending after all these years because it wouldn't make sense.

Also, apparently, you can't ask that the story have been done differently so that it wouldn't be insulting to twenty year fans because that's fanbase. To NOT give fans something that makes sense because it would be nice for the fans is Anti-fanbase. Anti-fanbase can be just as biased and unappealing as fanbase. You shouldn't cow-tow to fans, but you shouldn't slap them in the face either.

I don't think the way you suggested has anything but negative impact. John gets his memory back with Charlotte and goes to tell Marlena. It is incredibly anti-climactic and a very poor send-off to the point of insulting to me.
Strangely enough I followed that. LOL ;)
LOL! Be very afraid.
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Ellie
Dec 15 2008, 02:13 PM
^ lol we'll have to agree to disagree here too. I think endings like the one I want are part of the solution to the show's issues, not part of the problem. But I really don't want to get into the whole 'fanbase' discussion here because I know we have basic disagreements on that too, haha. Either way, I bet the show will go with an ending more like the one you want!
I feel your pain. Something stinks.
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hops
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I have a question for those that think fanbases shouldn't want what they want (meaning a decent story for their couple, and like it or not, for over 20 years Days was a soap for couples (maybe not anymore))..... if you like the show regardless of who is on and what stories are told, why are fanbases a problem? Days had quite a stong audience in the 90's, early 2000's and had vocal fanbases then too.
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FanODays


PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 06:28 PM
FanODays
Dec 15 2008, 05:52 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 15 2008, 01:07 PM
FanODays
Dec 15 2008, 12:59 PM
ladyofthelake
Dec 15 2008, 12:23 PM
FanODays
Dec 15 2008, 09:47 AM
The bottom line for me is that I don't care about this show anymore. I watch bits and pieces here and there but that is it. Its also pretty damned clear to me that this is beginning of the official end of Days (and perhaps NBC). I've seen nothing that leads me to believe there will be an improvement in the quality of the show or anything done to bring viewers back. Therefore Days will continue to hover around 2.0 in the ratings at best.

The economy is bad for everyone and costs are being cut but I also see alot of businesses doing things to lure new customers, sales, specials, rewards programs, etc. but not with Days. I've been saying it for years but Corday clearly doesn't get it and after the show that his parents started has been cancelled, he can continue to find others to blame, but I will always blame him.
Is it POSSIBLE, misguided or not, that adding these new faces to the canvas is a way to draw in NEW viewers? So many posters here see things through the eyes of a viewer of many years who has already been shat on too many times. Maybe they're looking to new viewers. I'm not sure where they'll find them. It's like any market plan for businesses.....some make it and some fail. By hiring these actors from other soaps, it could be that TPTB are trying to draw in the fans of these actors.
Businesses do it all the time. Unfortunately, not all their plans pan out. Remember the banking and auto industries?
You could be right but if you are then the plan doesn't seem like a good one, not if you read boards where there is a lot of chatter about not caring about the new characters, wanting to see more of old ones, and boredom in general. Yes new products could help a failing company but the products must be of a certain quality which seems to be missing here.
And the boards are not a complete reflection of the whole viewing audience, just like the ratings (which show Days up vs last year but I digress). Someone is always left out like the person with no Nielson box or the person who doesn't go online to boards or the person who doesn't speak on boards for whatever reason. Not to mention many of the boards are fanbase-affiliated. Believe me, there are people out there who are not being heard or represented. Days DVR numbers in Sara Bibel's blog were very good, for example. It just goes to show you that while many are mad, just as many aren't and are watching the show. Hell, some people mad might be.

I agree with ladyofthelake and Drew. New characters are needed sometimes and people would be bitching if Kayla was involved in a scheme like that. Daniel would make sense but he would probably make people hate the story so why bother?

I also find it hilarious that some think Marlena should be fulfilling Charlotte's role because that would be unethical. Given how close Marlena is to John, it would be a major conflict and not good to do at all. Kayla pointed that out to her too the other day. This isn't the 80's or the 90's. J&M are not just getting to know each other or are in a place where they can work through something like this the proper way Marlena is not an unbiased party and her behavior has proven that she can't take this on properly without making it worse so how does it make sense to use Marlena? Maybe Dena could've brought back Laura Horton or some other past psychiatrist but using Marlena would've been stupid.
Days needs to do better than they are or else they will be cancelled (even though I think that decision has already been made), and that is the bottom line. The ratings may be up from last year but they still suck. New characters are fine, I agree with that but the big, big, big problem is that the writing for them sucks. They are cartoonish at times, annoying at others, and overall not really drawing in new viewers which should be the goal of Days. If all they set out to do is to save money then the show will be gone perhaps sooner than expected.

I get that there may be people out there watching, but the overall buzz is gone and boredom and criticism is at an all time high. Days has got to go beyond not making people mad, they need to get people interested and tuning back in.
People thought they would be cancelled this time and they got an 18 month renewal. Until the show actually gets canceled, I won't believe it. It's been on the brink since 1998 and that was when it was 2nd in HH.

Boredom and criticism may be high on DR and some other boards but what about off the boards? What about those on boards many don't frequent? What about those that don't count in the ratings or don't speak up on boards? Someone out there is enjoying and watching and that is my point. Not saying all is right with the world but something must be working with some people out there.
I've always figured that the boards are still a cross representation of all viewers. There is nothing fundamentally different between viewers who post and those who don't, we are all viewers or nonviewers with opinions. Its like presential polls, they are representational, not complete and while they have a margin of error, they still show a cross section. So for every viewer that posts there are x number of viewers who don't but share and opinion whether good or bad.

Yes, Days has been on the brink of cancellation for years but now its not just Days, networks are being open and blunt about not wanting soaps, especially NBC and the competition from other mediums has never been so high, and viewership for all soaps so low. I firmly believe that within a decade, TV will be completely different with shows released on the internet and then viewed via big screen monitors, some people already do that with you tube and ipod downloads. Add to that, the economic crisis we are facing which is worse than we have faced for decades and you have an entirely different scenario than in 1996 or even 2005 or 06 when they had their last renewal.

Which is why Days is baffling me, here they are supposedly fighting for their life and yet I see or hear of no big plans to get people watching on a regular basis or to find a way to keep the fans they have happy or at the very least, interested. They are cutting costs in order to meet budgets but their product is a failing one. Corday reminds me of the head of the big 3 automakers when they flew their private planes to WDC then cried poverty and blamed unions to help them get out of the mess they made.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

hops
Dec 15 2008, 08:06 PM
I have a question for those that think fanbases shouldn't want what they want (meaning a decent story for their couple, and like it or not, for over 20 years Days was a soap for couples (maybe not anymore))..... if you like the show regardless of who is on and what stories are told, why are fanbases a problem? Days had quite a stong audience in the 90's, early 2000's and had vocal fanbases then too.
Again, no one is saying that.

I don't hate all people who love a couple or character. I hate the rabid psychopaths who want their couple 24/7 and think the show lives and dies on that one couple. I don't like the people who think the show always has to cave to them because their wants and needs are superior to the rest of the audience. That bothers me and I won't even say it's hate as much as frustrating.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing that here. I understand where many of you are coming from because you are losing your faves. However, what I was trying to emphasize was the other side of the issue. A bulk of the audience is not interested in some of the things you and other J&M fans are. There is more to Days then just J&M for some of us and some of us watch for the whole show. I also emphasizing how the whole picture has to be acknowledged. It's not as black and white as Higley being to blame or not understanding the fans or whatever. As has been well documented, there are clashes all the time and, in this day and age, a HW has to struggle to get there vision across unlike in the past. It's not that easy and that is the difference between now and the 90/early 2000's. The writer has interference to deal with but not so much that most of their vision could not get onscreen. Not to mention fans were more patient and willing to give things a chance. Not saying fans are not justified in their lack of faith but some do condemn just because of who is writing or based on vague spoilers. We are in an era where people want what they want now. They are not willing to wait. You also have so many fans with different wants and needs that it's hard to please everyone yet Corday tries and the result is watered down show. He is constantly changing stories because he panics when he sees some fans threatening a boycott. The problem is Days has had so many different writers over the past 20 years that everyone wants different types of stories and characters and you can't satisfy them all. The sad part is Corday doesn't listen to the right fans. He listens to the irrational ones and that is why he makes most of the stupid decisions he does.
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