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Soaps.com talks with Sandra Robinson
Topic Started: Dec 15 2008, 12:02 PM (2,556 Views)
Flying Monkey
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 03:10 AM
Well, if you look at fan fictions, the ones that are written by die hard J&M fans focus on nothing but J&M and them being in love while fan fictions from others that focus on Days, in general, vastly differ, In fact, you will find that in many fan fictions J&M are either split up or off the canvas, unless it's a J&M fan fiction. Why? Because it does get tired after awhile. Until your a writer, you can't realize it and I know it's hard to imagine as fans of them. I never realized either until I began writing. Yes, there is more story to tell but in fan fictions you don't have limits. There is no budget or interference. You cut who you want and what what you want. Having said that, you still reach a point with some characters where you feel you have nothing left for them and have to write them out. It happens and Jane is right and not just about this J&M story. I won't go into the reasons because this debate has been had before.
If you take a look at any fan fiction written by diehard fans of any couple or character, guess what you’ll find? The exact same thing! Trying to lay that solely at the feet of J&M fans is freakin’ hilarious. If I go to a site that in it’s heading states that it features fan fiction for a particular couple or character any reasonable person would expect to find most of the fiction there that centers around the said character or couple. Trying to lump “character/couple” fan fiction in with “general” fan fictions is like trying to compare apples and oranges. And guess what? Those “general” fan fictions more often than not aren't so pristine. More often than not, it quickly becomes apparent which characters the author favors and which ones they don’t, all under the guise of being “general”.

Funny, that most of J&M fan fiction I’ve read wouldn’t break the budget. There aren’t any big explosions, special effects or location shoots required. The stories are primarily character driven and are about interactions. Any “limitations” you claim could easily be reworked by a writer worth their salt. Having been a writer now for many years I find that it makes it much easier to detect a poser, they stand out like glaring, sore thumbs.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
I have seen some of you gripe about the negativity on the boards and how you all love Days and are so understanding of TPTB circumstance. My question is why are you all bending yourselves into pretzel-like figures trying to be sympathetic to the power structure at Days but seem so willing to through two actors, who no matter what your opinion of their characters have shown clear love for this showfor 20 and 30 years?

While J&M fans certainly have a bias and we love our fav's your seemingly objective opinions about how Ken and company had no choice and are in a precarious situation comes off as the polar opposite bias. And when these "understanding" opinions come from clear Dee and Drake or J&M haters, it just seems more obvious. But I guess you alll will really love this crapfest after January and I will be glad that Days will nt have my fav's to completely destroy anymore. We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
It's not bias and, again, the problem is not negativity. The problem is for some it's just about J&M getting axed and treated unfairly and there is no looking at the big picture. Should J&M fans be happy? No. I think what I, Jane, and some are saying is that there is more to it then Corday and co simply saying they don't like J&M and they are sending them away. There is no way the guy would've done this if he felt he didn't have to. Corday may be a stupid, incompetent lout but if there is one thing he has done it's try to maintain the veteran core of Days in an era where vets have been cut left and right at other shows. Look at GH. Where are the Q's? Gone. Y&R all but cleared out the Abbott's until recently. GL dispersed most of their vets. Many shows you tune into now have less recognizable faces and Days has been lucky enough to avoid that and that has alot to do with how the budget got out of control. Some of these salaries and cuts should've been made already.

J&M fans have a right to be upset. That isn't the problem. The problem is many seem to think the situation is black and white when there is more to it then that. There were many factors and maybe the pain is still raw and that is why some don't recognize them or maybe when your fave is leaving, you will never recognize it because your too hurt by what is happening and that is fine. Again, no one is saying J&M fans don't have a right to speak up or complain. It's just the idea that they were let go for malicious reasons other then having to do this to save the show that is the point lost in all this, at least that is my view of it. I don't expect J&M fans to feel any better about their couple leaving to save the show. I just think that the big picture needs to be acknowledged.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Ellie
Dec 16 2008, 03:21 AM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 03:10 AM
Well, if you look at fan fictions, the ones that are written by die hard J&M fans focus on nothing but J&M and them being in love while fan fictions from others that focus on Days, in general, vastly differ, In fact, you will find that in many fan fictions J&M are either split up or off the canvas, unless it's a J&M fan fiction. Why? Because it does get tired after awhile. Until your a writer, you can't realize it and I know it's hard to imagine as fans of them. I never realized either until I began writing. Yes, there is more story to tell but in fan fictions you don't have limits. There is no budget or interference. You cut who you want and what what you want. Having said that, you still reach a point with some characters where you feel you have nothing left for them and have to write them out. It happens and Jane is right and not just about this J&M story. I won't go into the reasons because this debate has been had before.
Even with budget or interference, at the heart of a story is the idea of the author. I still disagree with what you're saying; I think a talented soap writer can come up with new story ideas for any character. If a particular writer can't think of any more ideas, then I think it's time for the show to get a new writer.
Even the best writers run out of stories. It happens. Bill Bell, Douglas Marland,etc. They all hit walls with certain characters and when the time came, they either moved them to the back or wrote them out. Again, these are ensemble pieces and the show has relied too long on the same people. That is not to say you cut all the vets but you have to freshen the canvas or else you will be stuck telling the same stories again and again because you have the same characters playing things out. Some of these vets on Days have been here for over 20 years. What are they supposed to do? Keep playing the same vets for another 10? Are we going to have Bo. Hope, John, and Marlena chasing around baddies with walkers? Not trying to be harsh but at some point you have to move on. Days did it in the 80's, much to the chagrin of many, and it has to do it sometime soon. Hell, it should've already. There isn't much original stuff you can do and much of what is suggested is either something repetitive or done before or something that many fans may feel is boring or out of sorts for Days since you have so many different types of plans to please.

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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Kyrai
Dec 16 2008, 07:20 AM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 03:10 AM
Ellie
Dec 16 2008, 03:03 AM
jane1978
Dec 16 2008, 02:14 AM
There is really no story for Jarlena after John´s memory returns, everybody knows it.
Not me.

I will never accept the argument that there is "no story" for any character, even the characters I dislike or find boring. I think a creative writer (which Dena Higley is not) is able to tell a story for anyone. There is no end to the creativity of the fanfic writers nor to the creativity expressed in some threads on message boards. Yet there is somehow a finite number of stories that can be told on the show? Should we then say that there is a finite number of novels that can be written? Soap writers are authors, and I think there will always be stories that can be told.

Quote:
 
As usual, fans sabotaged it, demanding the happy ending here and now.
lol what did we do?? (If you have tips on how to sabotage the current story, I'm all ears!)
Well, if you look at fan fictions, the ones that are written by die hard J&M fans focus on nothing but J&M and them being in love while fan fictions from others that focus on Days, in general, vastly differ, In fact, you will find that in many fan fictions J&M are either split up or off the canvas, unless it's a J&M fan fiction. Why? Because it does get tired after awhile. Until your a writer, you can't realize it and I know it's hard to imagine as fans of them. I never realized either until I began writing. Yes, there is more story to tell but in fan fictions you don't have limits. There is no budget or interference. You cut who you want and what what you want. Having said that, you still reach a point with some characters where you feel you have nothing left for them and have to write them out. It happens and Jane is right and not just about this J&M story. I won't go into the reasons because this debate has been had before.
I love these generalizations about all John and Marlena die-hard fans. I just read a fan fiction that was nicely balanced with all the Bradys and Stefano. John, Marlena, Bo, Hope, and Stefano were the core, but it had wonderful scenes for so many of the characters, not just John and Marlena. I truly loved it. I could easily see this written as a storyline in Days. I'd love for it to be.

I guess it's not only the Days writers who think good stories have to have a triangle. To me, it's sadder that creativity and good storytelling are becoming a lost art. I wasn't against Charlotte, but honestly triangles get old. And you're acting like this was all changed for J&M fans, when most of the J&M fans I know were very excited about Marlena and Kayla going up against Stefano and Rolf to get John's brain fixed before Stefano either turned John back into the pawn or he died. I see nothing but potential stories for J&M, furthermore, I see the potential in the context of family and friends, real stories. I prefer character/relationship development over these little cubbyholes of couples who just rotate partners.

If a couple is boring once they are together, are you saying they should either be the non-stop triangles we see now or that once a couple gets together, they should just exit them immediately because there are no stories for a happy couple?
Maybe it is a generalization but it's what I have observed. That isn't to say there isn't any good ones out there but I'm basing on what I have seen. That is all I can really do. I'm sure there are some balanced ones out there but, again, what works in those fan fictions may not work onscreen or ever get to the screen.

The Days audience is not easy to get a read on. You have couple fans, character fans, fans of camp, fans of romance, fans of gothic, fans of serious and character-driven, and young fans who watch for various reasons. Not to mention, you have a EP who panics and screws with stories and a network who wants you gone the minute they can replace you. A network that wanted you gone when you were still #2 in the ratings. Even if you get a new writer, the same problems will exist. The new writer will get their stuff on for about 3 months. Some fans will get mad, Corday will panic, and more fans will get mad. He will panic again and the circle of inconsistent story and dropped stories will continue, angering even more fans as he tries in his impossible task to please everyone. The writer will get crucified by fans when he or she is not the pivotal person responsible. It's sad how predictable it is but it's the truth. No matter who writes, the creativity will be sucked out the window in the long term as long as Corday is involved. The best years and times the show had were before his time began as EP and when he was not permitted to interfere because he had strong EPs like Rabin, Langan, etc to keep him out of stories and the writing.

I'm also not saying there has to be triangles. I feel the vet couples are beyond that and felt J&M was too until nuJohn arrived. Now you can play that because of the potential nuJohn brought along. I don't even think Charlotte was to be in a triangle with them. Hell, Sandra herself said it was only supposed to be for a few episodes initially. All interest has been on John's end and it's came off as a way to make Marlena jealous. Charlotte is just a catalyst and while I understand J&M fans being upset about that, I think it's better this way but I see the point of J&M fans who wanted Marlena to do it because of the history. We will just have to disagree on that.

When a couple is together and happy, there are stories you can tell but the issue with Days is that many of those stories are not embraced by many. Social issues stories, health-related stories, and others of that nature are found to be boring by many. I would love a story about Marlena's career that causes conflict for J&M but I know some would hate that because it's too realistic and serious. I think as a writer you have to go with what you feel most of the audience will accept. You have to try to please the most people you can. You can't please everyone though. I think if you can't come up with anything you think will work for the characters or couple at the moment or that a good part of the audience won't embrace or give a chance then you have to either move the characters or couple into a supporting role for awhile or for good or just write them out short-term or long-term. Otherwise, you tell a repetitive story or force a story and it never comes out well.

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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Flying Monkey
Dec 16 2008, 09:15 AM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 03:10 AM
Well, if you look at fan fictions, the ones that are written by die hard J&M fans focus on nothing but J&M and them being in love while fan fictions from others that focus on Days, in general, vastly differ, In fact, you will find that in many fan fictions J&M are either split up or off the canvas, unless it's a J&M fan fiction. Why? Because it does get tired after awhile. Until your a writer, you can't realize it and I know it's hard to imagine as fans of them. I never realized either until I began writing. Yes, there is more story to tell but in fan fictions you don't have limits. There is no budget or interference. You cut who you want and what what you want. Having said that, you still reach a point with some characters where you feel you have nothing left for them and have to write them out. It happens and Jane is right and not just about this J&M story. I won't go into the reasons because this debate has been had before.
If you take a look at any fan fiction written by diehard fans of any couple or character, guess what you’ll find? The exact same thing! Trying to lay that solely at the feet of J&M fans is freakin’ hilarious. If I go to a site that in it’s heading states that it features fan fiction for a particular couple or character any reasonable person would expect to find most of the fiction there that centers around the said character or couple. Trying to lump “character/couple” fan fiction in with “general” fan fictions is like trying to compare apples and oranges. And guess what? Those “general” fan fictions more often than not aren't so pristine. More often than not, it quickly becomes apparent which characters the author favors and which ones they don’t, all under the guise of being “general”.

Funny, that most of J&M fan fiction I’ve read wouldn’t break the budget. There aren’t any big explosions, special effects or location shoots required. The stories are primarily character driven and are about interactions. Any “limitations” you claim could easily be reworked by a writer worth their salt. Having been a writer now for many years I find that it makes it much easier to detect a poser, they stand out like glaring, sore thumbs.
I wasn't laying the blame at only J&M fans. Just making the point that fan fictions don't have the samw issues to confront as the real show. There is no backstage issues like EP interference or budget, there is no disloyal network, etc. As a writer, you write what you want for who you want. You have creative freedom. Writers today don't have that. Most of the time it's not even about the fans. The network wants to please advertisers so they need the demos and order shows to do what it takes it bring demos up. Corday has to deal with that push. As I outlined in my posts above, no matter who writes, the situation will be the same with Corday there and all the other reasons in place. It's not going to change. Does that mean you keep Higley? No. It also doesn't mean fans can't complain and want better. It's just stating the facts of the situation since they should be acknowledged in this.

Your right that most J&M fan fictions may not break the budget but do you think fans would embrace alot of that? Maybe some but not everyone wants to see romance all the time or the supercouples doing the same thing they did 20 years ago only with as slightly different premise. Again, the real show has to try to go with what the audience as a whole may like and Days has so many different fans out there, that is a difficult task to accomplish.

As for the point about Bope, they are a Brady and a Horton and no matter who writes, they always seem to get material, even if they are supporting. Not to mention, I don't see many Bope haters at all online or in public. I do see J&M ones and S&K ones, among others. This is not a comparison between Bope and J&M. It's just an observation that less people out there seem to have a problem with Bope then with other couples. That may not be true but it's an observation, one that I agree with too based on what I've seen.
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andromeda


e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
I have seen some of you gripe about the negativity on the boards and how you all love Days and are so understanding of TPTB circumstance. My question is why are you all bending yourselves into pretzel-like figures trying to be sympathetic to the power structure at Days but seem so willing to through two actors, who no matter what your opinion of their characters have shown clear love for this showfor 20 and 30 years?

While J&M fans certainly have a bias and we love our fav's your seemingly objective opinions about how Ken and company had no choice and are in a precarious situation comes off as the polar opposite bias. And when these "understanding" opinions come from clear Dee and Drake or J&M haters, it just seems more obvious. But I guess you alll will really love this crapfest after January and I will be glad that Days will nt have my fav's to completely destroy anymore. We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Oh what the hell.... :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:
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andromeda


Flying Monkey
Dec 16 2008, 08:24 AM
jane1978
Dec 16 2008, 02:14 AM
Maybe they simply weren´t needed? Like it or not Bope are more universal couple than Jarlena. Jarlena have their hardcore fans but also a lot of haters. Bope are universally liked by almost everyone and they work perfectly as the only happy, bantering, stable couple on the show. Friday, Monday being great example.

Their fans are also much less demanding.

There is really no story for Jarlena after John´s memory returns, everybody knows it. That´s why they tried build more and more obstacles in this Jawn story. Even Drake said again and again the last thing he wants is John to remember anytime soon or turn into the old John again because the boredoom of the old Jarlena was the exact reason why he was fired the first time.

As usual, fans sabotaged it, demanding the happy ending here and now. Even if Jarlena stayed, I already see fans would hate even this newest story with Dr. Taylor, so why even bother? I seriously doubt there even is a story Jarlena fans could be happy about.


Bope are a more universal couple? Bope are universally liked? Where did you come up with that one? I would strongly disagree with both of those statements. I find most fans are rather apathetic about Bope. They're simply fail to stir strong emotions either way.

There is really no story for J&M? Why, because you say so? Again, I would strongly disagree with that statement. What makes Bope so much more viable than J&M? What storyline could they possibly have? Pyschic Bo? Oh yeah, that's a winner.

What exactly did the fans sabotage? From where I sit there wasn't much there to begin with and the real saboteur is Higley and her inability to write. You would be seriously wrong in your assumptions.
My back is starting to ache... :hail: :hail: :hail:
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andromeda


e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas not because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Edited by andromeda, Dec 16 2008, 04:44 PM.
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e83talus
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andromeda
Dec 16 2008, 04:37 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas bot because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Just like the elevator sex was a repeat of Roman and Kate several years ago.

They are either fresh out of new ideas or full of bad ones like having Bo now become psychic or having all of the young people swapping partners like sex in the city. What fun! :shrug:
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 04:47 PM
andromeda
Dec 16 2008, 04:37 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas bot because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Just like the elevator sex was a repeat of Roman and Kate several years ago.

They are either fresh out of new ideas or full of bad ones like having Bo now become psychic or having all of the young people swapping partners like sex in the city. What fun! :shrug:
When did Roman and Kate have sex in an elevator? That never happened.

Every show recycles stories, especially soaps that have been on for 40+ years. Even the great head writers repeat stories. You can do that as long as you aren't repeating stories with the same characters and Days is not doing that. That is the big difference. It's very hard to come by an original idea in any form of the entertainment industry. Why do you think Hollywood is doing so many sequels to films rather then new, original films?

Not to mention, most of today's audience probably doesn't even remember alot of past stories since they may not have been watching as long as some of us have.
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Kyrai


PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 11:52 AM
When a couple is together and happy, there are stories you can tell but the issue with Days is that many of those stories are not embraced by many. Social issues stories, health-related stories, and others of that nature are found to be boring by many. I would love a story about Marlena's career that causes conflict for J&M but I know some would hate that because it's too realistic and serious. I think as a writer you have to go with what you feel most of the audience will accept. You have to try to please the most people you can. You can't please everyone though. I think if you can't come up with anything you think will work for the characters or couple at the moment or that a good part of the audience won't embrace or give a chance then you have to either move the characters or couple into a supporting role for awhile or for good or just write them out short-term or long-term. Otherwise, you tell a repetitive story or force a story and it never comes out well.

I just want to go on record that I've always wanted more stories about Marlena's career. I'd love for her to be helping people as a psychiatrist again, and I think I've mentioned here how that could be used to bring in young interesting characters.

I don't see it as being boring. I think it would be interesting, and even exciting if she helped young people with problems and we got to know new people and their families, some good, some bad, some grey. I'm tired of everyone being spoiled and wealthy. John could be pulled in numerous ways as either helping, being at risk from what she's involved with, conflict over who she's helping, etc. I could see Steve and Kayla involved with their history, as well as Bo and Hope from a police perspective if things got hairy. It could help introduce Phillip, Brady, etc to new love interests. First get to know the new characters via story, then see if anything is there or not with any pairings.

Except now there is no money for it and J&M are leaving anyway. But I still like the idea.
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e83talus
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 04:56 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 04:47 PM
andromeda
Dec 16 2008, 04:37 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas bot because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Just like the elevator sex was a repeat of Roman and Kate several years ago.

They are either fresh out of new ideas or full of bad ones like having Bo now become psychic or having all of the young people swapping partners like sex in the city. What fun! :shrug:
When did Roman and Kate have sex in an elevator? That never happened.

Every show recycles stories, especially soaps that have been on for 40+ years. Even the great head writers repeat stories. You can do that as long as you aren't repeating stories with the same characters and Days is not doing that. That is the big difference. It's very hard to come by an original idea in any form of the entertainment industry. Why do you think Hollywood is doing so many sequels to films rather then new, original films?

Not to mention, most of today's audience probably doesn't even remember alot of past stories since they may not have been watching as long as some of us have.
Okay not sex exactly but definitely a hot scene in the elevator. I probably was wishing for sex in my dreams as I liked Kaman together then. LOL.

Seriously though Pheonix, I think you are on the Days PR payroll because you are simply sticking up for them and their decisions good or bad, no matter what. I mean you are using fan fiction tales to prove points about a what fans want to see on the show?

Fan fiction tales are just that, a way for fans to have a hand at writing stories. The stories that fans write have nothing to do with the talent of professional writers who are paid to keep audiences tuned in. And you will of course hear some of us say that our fav fan fic writers write better than the show writers, it is just us supporting each other on J&M friendly boards.

And to compare fan fic tales of other couples to what J&M fans write is also completely out of bounds. Noone has been through what J&M have been through on air over the last 20+ years? J&M are not like other couples and I would not compare their fictional stories to each other. Who else on soaps saved the love of their life from the Devil? Who else in daytime tried to place their head on a guillotine to save their love interest? This is not in anyway putting down other couples but J&M fans have every right to make up stories for our favorite characters without people misconstruing our motives of wanting to really see our stuff on the show.

This is a prime example of what I mean by bending yourself into unreasonable positions just to try to show that you are being "objective" and TPTB deserve some understanding.

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e83talus
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Kyrai
Dec 16 2008, 05:27 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 11:52 AM
When a couple is together and happy, there are stories you can tell but the issue with Days is that many of those stories are not embraced by many. Social issues stories, health-related stories, and others of that nature are found to be boring by many. I would love a story about Marlena's career that causes conflict for J&M but I know some would hate that because it's too realistic and serious. I think as a writer you have to go with what you feel most of the audience will accept. You have to try to please the most people you can. You can't please everyone though. I think if you can't come up with anything you think will work for the characters or couple at the moment or that a good part of the audience won't embrace or give a chance then you have to either move the characters or couple into a supporting role for awhile or for good or just write them out short-term or long-term. Otherwise, you tell a repetitive story or force a story and it never comes out well.

I just want to go on record that I've always wanted more stories about Marlena's career. I'd love for her to be helping people as a psychiatrist again, and I think I've mentioned here how that could be used to bring in young interesting characters.

I don't see it as being boring. I think it would be interesting, and even exciting if she helped young people with problems and we got to know new people and their families, some good, some bad, some grey. I'm tired of everyone being spoiled and wealthy. John could be pulled in numerous ways as either helping, being at risk from what she's involved with, conflict over who she's helping, etc. I could see Steve and Kayla involved with their history, as well as Bo and Hope from a police perspective if things got hairy. It could help introduce Phillip, Brady, etc to new love interests. First get to know the new characters via story, then see if anything is there or not with any pairings.

Except now there is no money for it and J&M are leaving anyway. But I still like the idea.
But of course people who are paid to come up with ideas like that couldn't because J&M are difficult to write for and our fanbase is fickle...
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Ponz
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 04:56 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 04:47 PM
andromeda
Dec 16 2008, 04:37 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas bot because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Just like the elevator sex was a repeat of Roman and Kate several years ago.

They are either fresh out of new ideas or full of bad ones like having Bo now become psychic or having all of the young people swapping partners like sex in the city. What fun! :shrug:
When did Roman and Kate have sex in an elevator? That never happened.

Every show recycles stories, especially soaps that have been on for 40+ years. Even the great head writers repeat stories. You can do that as long as you aren't repeating stories with the same characters and Days is not doing that. That is the big difference. It's very hard to come by an original idea in any form of the entertainment industry.
Because Hollywood tends to recycle the same group of hacks instead of injecting new creative blood. It's not the characters that are stale and played out. It's the pool of writers. Daytime in particular has a horrible institutional bias against promising younger writers.

Quote:
 
Why do you think Hollywood is doing so many sequels to films rather then new, original films?


That's an economic point, not a creative one. Network/studio execs would rather bank on a mediocre but proven formula than roll the dice on more original but (supposedly) riskier material. It's not that the new ideas don't exist. They just aren't being produced.
Edited by Ponz, Dec 16 2008, 05:41 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 05:30 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 04:56 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 04:47 PM
andromeda
Dec 16 2008, 04:37 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas bot because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Just like the elevator sex was a repeat of Roman and Kate several years ago.

They are either fresh out of new ideas or full of bad ones like having Bo now become psychic or having all of the young people swapping partners like sex in the city. What fun! :shrug:
When did Roman and Kate have sex in an elevator? That never happened.

Every show recycles stories, especially soaps that have been on for 40+ years. Even the great head writers repeat stories. You can do that as long as you aren't repeating stories with the same characters and Days is not doing that. That is the big difference. It's very hard to come by an original idea in any form of the entertainment industry. Why do you think Hollywood is doing so many sequels to films rather then new, original films?

Not to mention, most of today's audience probably doesn't even remember alot of past stories since they may not have been watching as long as some of us have.
Okay not sex exactly but definitely a hot scene in the elevator. I probably was wishing for sex in my dreams as I liked Kaman together then. LOL.

Seriously though Pheonix, I think you are on the Days PR payroll because you are simply sticking up for them and their decisions good or bad, no matter what. I mean you are using fan fiction tales to prove points about a what fans want to see on the show?

Fan fiction tales are just that, a way for fans to have a hand at writing stories. The stories that fans write have nothing to do with the talent of professional writers who are paid to keep audiences tuned in. And you will of course hear some of us say that our fav fan fic writers write better than the show writers, it is just us supporting each other on J&M friendly boards.

And to compare fan fic tales of other couples to what J&M fans write is also completely out of bounds. Noone has been through what J&M have been through on air over the last 20+ years? J&M are not like other couples and I would not compare their fictional stories to each other. Who else on soaps saved the love of their life from the Devil? Who else in daytime tried to place their head on a guillotine to save their love interest? This is not in anyway putting down other couples but J&M fans have every right to make up stories for our favorite characters without people misconstruing our motives of wanting to really see our stuff on the show.

This is a prime example of what I mean by bending yourself into unreasonable positions just to try to show that you are being "objective" and TPTB deserve some understanding.

Nope, not on their payroll. Wish I was.

And how am I bending over backwards? I'm just posting on three things...what I know, what I observe, and what others may be saying. I wasn't even the one who brought up fan fictions. Someone else did in relation to the fact that fan fiction writers can come up with stuff so why can't the current writers and I made the point that it's easier when you don't have to deal with all the other BS.

I understand what your saying and it's clear this is never going to end if I keep going so this will be my past post on the matter. All I'm saying is people need to look at the whole picture and not just the one that sides with their couple. I like J&M too. Not as big a fan as I was but still a fan. I love Dee. It hurts but the fundamental difference here is I don't need them on the show. Some do and that is fine but my view is not going to be based solely on the J&M perspective and that is where we are going to differ. For some, it's going to be and that's fine but this is what people can expect out of me. I'm just posting what I know and also my opinion. It's not like I'm sitting in the Days PR office right now LOL.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Ponz
Dec 16 2008, 05:41 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 04:56 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 04:47 PM
andromeda
Dec 16 2008, 04:37 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas bot because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Just like the elevator sex was a repeat of Roman and Kate several years ago.

They are either fresh out of new ideas or full of bad ones like having Bo now become psychic or having all of the young people swapping partners like sex in the city. What fun! :shrug:
When did Roman and Kate have sex in an elevator? That never happened.

Every show recycles stories, especially soaps that have been on for 40+ years. Even the great head writers repeat stories. You can do that as long as you aren't repeating stories with the same characters and Days is not doing that. That is the big difference. It's very hard to come by an original idea in any form of the entertainment industry.
Because Hollywood tends to recycle the same group of hacks instead of injecting new creative blood. It's not the characters that are stale and played out. It's the pool of writers. Daytime in particular has a horrible institutional bias against promising younger writers.

Quote:
 
Why do you think Hollywood is doing so many sequels to films rather then new, original films?


That's an economic point, not a creative one. Network/studio execs would rather bank on a mediocre but proven formula than roll the dice on more original but (supposedly) riskier material. It's not that the new ideas don't exist. They just aren't being produced.
Wow...do I disagree.

Yes, writers are recycled but even Bill Bell recycled stories. Was he a hack? What can be done that hasn't been done? Not just in regards to Days but anything Hollywood puts out there. Yes, the sequel madness is economic related but it's also related to the fact that nothing out there is surprising anymore. You have to put new spins on things to get by. Hell, we are even getting remakes of things both in film and TV. Why is that? Not just because of economics. No one has any ideas. I'm not going to say there is nothing new and original that can be done but there is very little. You just have to put a different spin on it and that is what most do but to suggest it's just hacks doing this or it's purely driven by economic reasons...I can't buy that. There is no way it's simply that.
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e83talus
Member Avatar


PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 06:00 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 05:30 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 04:56 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 04:47 PM
andromeda
Dec 16 2008, 04:37 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas bot because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Just like the elevator sex was a repeat of Roman and Kate several years ago.

They are either fresh out of new ideas or full of bad ones like having Bo now become psychic or having all of the young people swapping partners like sex in the city. What fun! :shrug:
When did Roman and Kate have sex in an elevator? That never happened.

Every show recycles stories, especially soaps that have been on for 40+ years. Even the great head writers repeat stories. You can do that as long as you aren't repeating stories with the same characters and Days is not doing that. That is the big difference. It's very hard to come by an original idea in any form of the entertainment industry. Why do you think Hollywood is doing so many sequels to films rather then new, original films?

Not to mention, most of today's audience probably doesn't even remember alot of past stories since they may not have been watching as long as some of us have.
Okay not sex exactly but definitely a hot scene in the elevator. I probably was wishing for sex in my dreams as I liked Kaman together then. LOL.

Seriously though Pheonix, I think you are on the Days PR payroll because you are simply sticking up for them and their decisions good or bad, no matter what. I mean you are using fan fiction tales to prove points about a what fans want to see on the show?

Fan fiction tales are just that, a way for fans to have a hand at writing stories. The stories that fans write have nothing to do with the talent of professional writers who are paid to keep audiences tuned in. And you will of course hear some of us say that our fav fan fic writers write better than the show writers, it is just us supporting each other on J&M friendly boards.

And to compare fan fic tales of other couples to what J&M fans write is also completely out of bounds. Noone has been through what J&M have been through on air over the last 20+ years? J&M are not like other couples and I would not compare their fictional stories to each other. Who else on soaps saved the love of their life from the Devil? Who else in daytime tried to place their head on a guillotine to save their love interest? This is not in anyway putting down other couples but J&M fans have every right to make up stories for our favorite characters without people misconstruing our motives of wanting to really see our stuff on the show.

This is a prime example of what I mean by bending yourself into unreasonable positions just to try to show that you are being "objective" and TPTB deserve some understanding.

Nope, not on their payroll. Wish I was.

And how am I bending over backwards? I'm just posting on three things...what I know, what I observe, and what others may be saying. I wasn't even the one who brought up fan fictions. Someone else did in relation to the fact that fan fiction writers can come up with stuff so why can't the current writers and I made the point that it's easier when you don't have to deal with all the other BS.

I understand what your saying and it's clear this is never going to end if I keep going so this will be my past post on the matter. All I'm saying is people need to look at the whole picture and not just the one that sides with their couple. I like J&M too. Not as big a fan as I was but still a fan. I love Dee. It hurts but the fundamental difference here is I don't need them on the show. Some do and that is fine but my view is not going to be based solely on the J&M perspective and that is where we are going to differ. For some, it's going to be and that's fine but this is what people can expect out of me. I'm just posting what I know and also my opinion. It's not like I'm sitting in the Days PR office right now LOL.
LOL. They need you in the PR office because you are doing a better job defending their actions than they are. Respectfully ending the debate. :)
Edited by e83talus, Dec 16 2008, 06:08 PM.
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Ponz
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 06:03 PM
Ponz
Dec 16 2008, 05:41 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 04:56 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 04:47 PM
andromeda
Dec 16 2008, 04:37 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas bot because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Just like the elevator sex was a repeat of Roman and Kate several years ago.

They are either fresh out of new ideas or full of bad ones like having Bo now become psychic or having all of the young people swapping partners like sex in the city. What fun! :shrug:
When did Roman and Kate have sex in an elevator? That never happened.

Every show recycles stories, especially soaps that have been on for 40+ years. Even the great head writers repeat stories. You can do that as long as you aren't repeating stories with the same characters and Days is not doing that. That is the big difference. It's very hard to come by an original idea in any form of the entertainment industry.
Because Hollywood tends to recycle the same group of hacks instead of injecting new creative blood. It's not the characters that are stale and played out. It's the pool of writers. Daytime in particular has a horrible institutional bias against promising younger writers.

Quote:
 
Why do you think Hollywood is doing so many sequels to films rather then new, original films?


That's an economic point, not a creative one. Network/studio execs would rather bank on a mediocre but proven formula than roll the dice on more original but (supposedly) riskier material. It's not that the new ideas don't exist. They just aren't being produced.
Wow...do I disagree.

Yes, writers are recycled but even Bill Bell recycled stories. Was he a hack?
No, but even Bell stuck around long past his creative peak. It's just that his peak was so much higher than other writers' that he got away with it. Very few writers are talented enough to possess this luxury.

Quote:
 

What can be done that hasn't been done? Not just in regards to Days but anything Hollywood puts out there. Yes, the sequel madness is economic related but it's also related to the fact that nothing out there is surprising anymore. You have to put new spins on things to get by. Hell, we are even getting remakes of things both in film and TV. Why is that? Not just because of economics. No one has any ideas. I'm not going to say there is nothing new and original that can be done but there is very little. You just have to put a different spin on it and that is what most do but to suggest it's just hacks doing this or it's purely driven by economic reasons...I can't buy that. There is no way it's simply that.


Well, take House M.D. as an example. When Hugh Laurie got the pilot script, he assumed that the character of Wilson would be the protagonist and he would play the foil. It was unheard of for a medical drama to center around a misanthropic anti-hero rather than a conventional heroic leading man. Four seasons later and it's now the top rated scripted program on American television. FOX took a risk on a new and unusual premise and it's paid off spectacularly for them. Contrast that with NBC's ultra-conservative approach and then take the look at their primetime ratings...
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PhoenixRising05
Member Avatar
GET EM STEPH!!

Ponz
Dec 16 2008, 06:45 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 06:03 PM
Ponz
Dec 16 2008, 05:41 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 16 2008, 04:56 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 04:47 PM
andromeda
Dec 16 2008, 04:37 PM
e83talus
Dec 16 2008, 03:20 AM
We will leave you with the wonderful stories of Days like whiny Melanie, Sleazy Dr. Dan, and the Salem mattress that is Chloe because they are clearly going to save this show the way that the vets cannot.
Because there is still so much story to tell for the abovenamed... which I guess is why Dena is rewriting Kristen's fake pregnancy for Nicole lol The storyline possibilities for the younger crowd and the newbies are supposedly endless whereas with the vets TPTB are fresh out of ideas bot because they are not creative but because there are no ideas to be had. I wonder what that says about every other new character who gets recycled storylines :rolleyes:
Just like the elevator sex was a repeat of Roman and Kate several years ago.

They are either fresh out of new ideas or full of bad ones like having Bo now become psychic or having all of the young people swapping partners like sex in the city. What fun! :shrug:
When did Roman and Kate have sex in an elevator? That never happened.

Every show recycles stories, especially soaps that have been on for 40+ years. Even the great head writers repeat stories. You can do that as long as you aren't repeating stories with the same characters and Days is not doing that. That is the big difference. It's very hard to come by an original idea in any form of the entertainment industry.
Because Hollywood tends to recycle the same group of hacks instead of injecting new creative blood. It's not the characters that are stale and played out. It's the pool of writers. Daytime in particular has a horrible institutional bias against promising younger writers.

Quote:
 
Why do you think Hollywood is doing so many sequels to films rather then new, original films?


That's an economic point, not a creative one. Network/studio execs would rather bank on a mediocre but proven formula than roll the dice on more original but (supposedly) riskier material. It's not that the new ideas don't exist. They just aren't being produced.
Wow...do I disagree.

Yes, writers are recycled but even Bill Bell recycled stories. Was he a hack?
No, but even Bell stuck around long past his creative peak. It's just that his peak was so much higher than other writers' that he got away with it. Very few writers are talented enough to possess this luxury.

Quote:
 

What can be done that hasn't been done? Not just in regards to Days but anything Hollywood puts out there. Yes, the sequel madness is economic related but it's also related to the fact that nothing out there is surprising anymore. You have to put new spins on things to get by. Hell, we are even getting remakes of things both in film and TV. Why is that? Not just because of economics. No one has any ideas. I'm not going to say there is nothing new and original that can be done but there is very little. You just have to put a different spin on it and that is what most do but to suggest it's just hacks doing this or it's purely driven by economic reasons...I can't buy that. There is no way it's simply that.


Well, take House M.D. as an example. When Hugh Laurie got the pilot script, he assumed that the character of Wilson would be the protagonist and he would play the foil. It was unheard of for a medical drama to center around a misanthropic anti-hero rather than a conventional heroic leading man. Four seasons later and it's now the top rated scripted program on American television. FOX took a risk on a new and unusual premise and it's paid off spectacularly for them. Contrast that with NBC's ultra-conservative approach and then take the look at their primetime ratings...
Right but, as I said, there aren't that many new and original ideas out there. Are there some? Sure but not many. Plus, who knows if House would even still be here had it not had a solid lead-in early on so it could build an audience. If it were a few years earlier, Fox would've canned it by it's second week.
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