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Knots Landing
Topic Started: Dec 16 2008, 03:51 PM (11,643 Views)
Casey
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#BringBackMartha

I thought the entire Ciji storyline was brilliant! Like you said, I loved how her death affected EVERYONE on the canvas. So much drama erupted after her body turned up on the beach. You had Gary charged with her muder, Val accidentally thinking she had killed her then confessing, and Richard leaving Laura and having her accuse him of being a prime suspect in the case. There was a ton of raw emmotion there. I can see why you regard it as your favorite storyline. And I'm glad you like it because its great to have someone to discuss the show with. Lol.
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Casey
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#BringBackMartha

So...Ben is dead? I have about four episodes left to go in the fifth season. Val just figured out that she's pregnant with twins and gets a phone call saying that Ben's car was hit in South America. Meanwhile, Gary has just kicked Abby off the ranch and has frozen his assets from both Gary Ewing Enterprises and Appleoon (correct spelling?), putting Lotus Point prompting the Wolfbridge group to retaliate. The Gary/Val/Abby drama is enough to carry this entire show, let alone all of the other fabulous characters. Haha!



I loved this scene. Abby taking the entire scene at 3:22 was great. She stops, looks at the familiar surroundings, sighs, and then slowly walks into Val's house.
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Casey
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Mason (or anybody else who is a fan of Knots), how would you rate each season from best to worst? Does the quality of the show remain intact even in the later seasons? If I had to rate, I'd say:

Season 6
Season 4
Season 3
Season 5
Season 2
Season 1
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Mason


Being the nerd that I am, I'll go into further detail about this when I get home, but for now, I'll provide you my rankings from best to worst.

4
5
3
2
6
10
1
8
7
9
11
12
14
13
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Mason


Okay, now that I have time to sit down and pour out my thoughts....here it is:

Seasons 1-6 are generally KL's best, most consistent years, IMO. This was when the show was the best written, acted and the characterizations the most consistent. The show was at its best when the focus was still largely centered in the cul-de-sac. Peter Dunne, who ran the show during Seasons 4-6, is largely responsible for the quality of the show during these years (although, ironically, when he was sent over to Dallas in 1985 -- the infamous dream season -- the stories that year were total flops).

David Paulsen came over from Dallas and ran Knots Landing during Season 7 (1985-1986). Under him, I think the show developed a bit of a darker taste and the male characters took on greater prominence. I'm not really crazy about Season 7, but it has some good parts, particularly the episode "Phoenix Rises", which I count as one of my top 10 favorite episodes of KL. However, the Empire Valley storyline was just stupid, and especially by KL's standards. I think Season 7 is where the show began its downturn in overall quality.

Lynn Marie Latham and her husband Bernard Lechowick took over Knots Landing in Season 8 and stayed through Season 12. They were very hit-or-miss. They were very plot-over-character writers, and in particular, they seemed to struggle with writing for Abby and Val. They did have some good stories, though, like Jill going crazy, which started in Season 9 and carried through most of Season 10, and the Murakami storyline in Season 10. Ultimately, though, I think the duds outweighed the gold under them. Seasons 9 and 12 are especially weak, and the show is basically a plot-driven farce for most of their last season.

It gets worse in Season 13, however. This is Knots Landing at its absolute lowest. John Romano takes over the show from the Lechowicks and proceeds to fill the show with lots of boring, insipid new characters that nobody cares about in boring, insipid storylines that just as many people (meaning none) care about. It got so bad that KL's creator, David Jacobs, shut down production about two-thirds of the way through the season and brought back Ann Marcus to helm the show. The show improved but was still pretty weak, IMO.

Season 14, the final season, was an improvement over the previous year, but it was hurt by the remaining veteran actors frequently being absent from episodes due to the show's reduced budget. Still the story arc of that year, Treadwell, was pretty cohesive and was almost like a callback to the Wolfbridge storyline of Season 5 (though not nearly as good). The series finale was pretty satisfying.

And there you have it. :)
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Casey
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Woah! Thanks for going into detail about it. I was curious as to whether or not the show was able to maintain its quality throughout all of its fourteen seasons, especially since the seasons I've been watching have been really great. How can you not lost some of the quality though staying on the air for fourteen years? Lol. Ironically, I've actually seen some snippets from Joan Van Ark where she talks about her distaste for both Latham and Lechowick as writers. Something about them turning Val into a "village idiot". From what I've also heard, the show really takes huge hits when Constance McCashin (season 9) and Donna Mills (season 10) leave. If I had to narrow it down, I'd say that Laura is my favorite character of the bunch...so that's going to suck to see. Does Nicollette Sheridan's character end up moving into her house?

Oh...and does the show lose its cul-de-sac feel? That was one of my main issues with season five. I enjoyed the overall Wolfbridge arc, but it was weird not seeing outdoor shooting of the familiar neighborhood and having characters that would normally interact not even utter words to each other. The show got that back in season six, but I'm hoping they don't stray too far from it again.
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Mason


Casey
Apr 19 2012, 07:20 PM
Woah! Thanks for going into detail about it. I was curious as to whether or not the show was able to maintain its quality throughout all of its fourteen seasons, especially since the seasons I've been watching have been really great. How can you not lost some of the quality though staying on the air for fourteen years?
And, honestly, except for Season 13 and parts of Season 12, Knots Landing never really gets too terribly bad (especially when compared to its contemporaries).

Quote:
 
Ironically, I've actually seen some snippets from Joan Van Ark where she talks about her distaste for both Latham and Lechowick as writers. Something about them turning Val into a "village idiot".

Yes, LoL. At least two of their storylines for Val are just plain moronic. And you'll know which ones I'm talking about when you see them.

Quote:
 
From what I've also heard, the show really takes huge hits when Constance McCashin (season 9) and Donna Mills (season 10) leave. If I had to narrow it down, I'd say that Laura is my favorite character of the bunch...so that's going to suck to see. Does Nicollette Sheridan's character end up moving into her house?

Yeah, McCashin, Mills and Harris are all great losses for the show. A new family, the Williamses, moves into Laura's old house. They have great potential, but unfortunately, the Lechowicks never truly tap into it, so they're basically superfluous.

Quote:
 
Oh...and does the show lose its cul-de-sac feel? That was one of my main issues with season five. I enjoyed the overall Wolfbridge arc, but it was weird not seeing outdoor shooting of the familiar neighborhood and having characters that would normally interact not even utter words to each other. The show got that back in season six, but I'm hoping they don't stray too far from it again.

It does, unfortunately, lose that tightly knit feel of the earlier seasons. As the show branches out into the greater Los Angeles area, we lose a lot of that nice suburban quality that the show has in its first several seasons.

Where are you, right now, in the series, anyway?
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darraholic
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Pennsatucky

Thanks Casey.
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Casey
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Mason
Apr 19 2012, 07:29 PM
It does, unfortunately, lose that tightly knit feel of the earlier seasons. As the show branches out into the greater Los Angeles area, we lose a lot of that nice suburban quality that the show has in its first several seasons.

Where are you, right now, in the series, anyway?
That's sad. A big draw for me was initially how all the characters lived together on the cul-de-sac and were all tight knight and bonded with each other. I've definitely noticed that dwindling every since Abby/Gary moved, but I was hoping that was something they would keep intact because it was basically the premise of the whole show.

As of right now, I'm towards the end of season 6. I only have a couple more episodes to go before the finale. Mack and Ben just mistakenly walked into a dark haired woman's (can't remember the name of her) house who had twin babies. The camera panned to them, so they obviously are Val's stolen babies. Lol. I just wish I hadn't spoiled myself on this finale unlike previous seasons.
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Mason


Yes, the Season 6 cliffhanger is so good. SO GOOD.
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Casey
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Honestly, after seeing that sixth season finale, I CAN'T understand why this show has been so poorly treated. It's so much better than all of the other primetime soap opera's from the 1980's... Dynasty, Falcon Crest, and even Dallas do not even compare. It's a shame the network hasn't even bothered to release any other seasons. Okay, the first two seasons were a little lackluster compared to what came next but it got so good in its third year and onward! Absolutely ridiculous.
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Casey
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#BringBackMartha

I fucking LOVE Julie Harris! Lilamae to Joshua, "I don't care that I was a bad mother or that Jonathan beat you! I only care that you have become a MONSTER and you trample on everybody, you devour everybody, you destroy everything you touch. Don't call me Mama. I'm NOT your Mama anymore. How could I have given birth to anybody so cruel? JOSHUA!"

Edited by Casey, May 14 2012, 02:16 PM.
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Mason


Yes, that's one of the high points of Season 7. Although, following this, Lilimae becomes a major pain in the ass for the rest of the season. You'll see.
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Casey
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Mason
May 14 2012, 02:24 PM
Yes, that's one of the high points of Season 7. Although, following this, Lilimae becomes a major pain in the ass for the rest of the season. You'll see.
Oh, I know what you mean now. Lilamae hasn't left Cathy alone since Joshua's death and is now putting on this whole act about how much she loved and cared for him. Give it a rest, woman. Lol. Does Nicollette Sheridan come on this season or am I just imagining reading that? She hasn't popped up once unless it's a cliffhanger type thing.
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Mason


Nicollette arrives in the last or second to last episode of Season 7.
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Casey
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#BringBackMartha

I've always found forced haircuts in film and television to be extraordinarily creepy. They always freak me out! Lol.

Posted Image


Meanwhile, I've been enjoying the scenes between Michael/Paige/Mack. Don't they bring her "dead" mother on later played by Michelle Phillips? Mason, how would you feel "Knots" would hold up if they ever tried to do something like they're doing for "Dallas" right now? An updated, continuation of the original series consisting of new and old characters. Do you think they would be able to make that work?
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Mason


I'm torn on a Knots Landing continuation/reboot. I think it's easier for a show like Dallas where you can just focus on the next generation (i.e., John Ross and Christopher) and have the old guard (J.R., Bobby, Sue Ellen, etc) supporting those stories. On a show about neighbors living in a cul-de-sac, I think it might be trickier. Where would the focus be? Mack, Karen, Gary and Val would presumably all still be living on Seaview Circle, but at their ages, how much could you do with them? They have kids, but obviously they wouldn't still be living in the cul-de-sac with their parents. You could focus on completely new (thirty/fortysomething-aged) characters/neighbors living in, for instance, Laura, Abby and the Wards' old homes with the MacKenzies and Ewings making occasional appearances, but how many people looking for a true continuation of the old Knots Landing would that satisfy? I would watch any variation of those ideas, but I don't know how successful it would be. The format for the new Dallas is much more obvious than I think it would be for a new Knots Landing.

I think about this kind of stuff way too much, LoL.
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Casey
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Yes, that's what was sort of in my head too. I've seen it brought up in discussion before and since you're a big fan I thought I would ask your input. I probably wouldn't be satisfied with the second idea. I think the show would need Karen, Val, Gary, and Mack around on a routine basis (how awesome would it be if Julie Harris popped up in an episode or two?), but as you said because of their age the show would have to be centered around their children. Betsy, Bobby, and Meg being the obvious central players. Obviously, they could bring on other characters for them to interact and form relationships with. Nicollette Sheridan would also be a big grab for the show and she's already said she would participate if anything did come up. So, we now have: Karen, Val, Gary, Mack, Paige, Bobby, Betsy, Meg, and potentially others. Lol. Maybe they could have Gary and Val back on the ranch and one of the kids still living on the cul-de-sac? Clearly, I don't have all the details worked out but a lot of people have had some good ideas on some other boards devoted to these four shows.

I do think we'll see other resurfaces of the 1980's soap operas if Dallas is successful, particularly Dynasty, which would probably also work in the same format that Dallas is trying out now. Alexis and Krystle being the older generation; Sammy Jo, Steven, Fallon, and Adam being the middle generation; and then Lauren, L.B., and Danny being the younger generation. You don't particularly strike me as a Dynasty fan though. Lol. I loved the early years of the show, but once Pamela Sue Martin left the show began to suck.
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Mason


Casey
May 30 2012, 12:31 PM
You don't particularly strike me as a Dynasty fan though. Lol. I loved the early years of the show, but once Pamela Sue Martin left the show began to suck.
LoL, I love the first two seasons and the last season of Dynasty. Everything in between was utter horseshit, though.
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Casey
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Mason
May 30 2012, 12:58 PM
Casey
May 30 2012, 12:31 PM
You don't particularly strike me as a Dynasty fan though. Lol. I loved the early years of the show, but once Pamela Sue Martin left the show began to suck.
LoL, I love the first two seasons and the last season of Dynasty. Everything in between was utter horseshit, though.
I can agree with that. Lol. The characters were walking around without brains in their heads for quite awhile after season two. I do think that got significantly worse after PSM left though, probably because at the time Fallon was my favorite character. David Paulsen definitely upped the quality in the show's ninth season, but it was way too late for any sort of redemption for the show to remain on the air.
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