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DAYS: Promo for wk of 12/22 - UPDATED
Topic Started: Dec 19 2008, 07:39 PM (3,888 Views)
hops
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Then why are so many soap fans not watching anymore?
Edited by hops, Dec 20 2008, 01:20 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

hops
Dec 20 2008, 01:19 PM
Then why are so many soap fans not watching anymore?
Well, that question has an even broader scope.

Why are less people watching TV, in general?

I think Kenny is right. People are busier. Once you break the habit, usually the fan only comes back sparingly unless they have a reason to watch all the time. Also, you have more TV options and online viewing. Look how many people seem to watch Days online, or any soap for that matter.

Days had fantastic DVR numbers that were listed in Sara Bibel's blog. If you take those numbers and consider those who watch on Soapnet at some point and those who watch online in various places, the number would be much higher for Days and all other soaps if you factor all that in. In the 90's you didn't have any of those factors to deal with and as more of those factors were introduced, numbers plummeted. Not saying those were the only reasons. Less people home factored in and the quality affected things as well. People always tend to pin it on TPTB but it's not just them. In fact, outside factors have actually had more to do with it, at least in my view. Soaps would've dropped but I'm not sure it would've been this hard and so fast. Let's also not forget what has always been the case...there is definitely more people watching then the ratings indicate.

And you mention Y&R and OLTL. Y&R's ratings have responded, thankfully, but OLTL can't seem to get viewers to stay after the big reveals and events are over so it just goes to show you that what many fans want is not what the ratings respond to. The ratings haven't had rhyme or reason in years. That isn't to say OLTL should abandon what they are doing. I think they just have to try doing something that isn't offensive that will garner attention in the long-term. Something big. Not a stunt but some sort of story that can get them publicity or something to get people's interest for more then a few weeks at a time.
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hops
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 20 2008, 01:07 PM


Days trying to re-invent J&M with new John was clever because it gave them something fresh, despite the fact that I hated resurrecting him. It worked for awhile but the problem is I don't think the bulk of fans want to see a long- built up love story, especially with a couple who was already together and who the audience knows will end up together. Where's the suspense that comes from not knowing if they will make it? Nowhere because we've been down this road so many times with them and other couples, the fans know the outcome.
I can tell you that I was exactly what I wanted....the long slow build up. I wanted to watch a new John and Marlena and I know so many that wanted that too. Quite a few fans that had been turned off returned in Jan/Feb/Mar and then left when they realized that story wasn't going to happen. They took Stefano out of the equation, they kept taking Marlena off canvas. They didn't try and build a bond between J&M. There was so much story, but the writers just didn't want to go there. TPTB didn't even try. The suspense is in the story, in the obstacles. Marlena injected Stefano and put him in a coma...why didn't they play that story out? John just up and walks away without a fight? That was the conflict. John and Marlena finding each other again could have been woven into that story. There are no excuses. And I love a great love story. Love conquering all. And I think there is an audience for that kind of story.
Edited by hops, Dec 20 2008, 01:32 PM.
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marianne557
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Sindacco
Dec 19 2008, 08:31 PM
Lame
ITA! Other than EJ, who is so not DiMera like now, there is not a DiMera in sight! Which can only mean another boring Christmas in Salem.
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hops
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jules
Dec 20 2008, 11:02 AM
Couldn't agree more. Look at a show like the Y&R, which is number one in the ratings. They feature so many vets in front burner stories and it seems to work. Days is just too lazy or talentless (writing wise) to do this. The only thing they can think of to do for vets is to throw in a third party. J&M had the perfect set up for a great story and for some reason they refused to write it.
You know I agree Jules! lol.

And it doesn't mean Days has to copy Y&R, they are two completely different soaps and that's what used to be so great. There were choices. Days used to be for fans of couples. It was unique in that respect. So, okay, it's not anymore, and that's a shame.


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Sindacco
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Vets vs Newbies have never been the problem for me. I don't like a vet just because he or she is a vet. I like a character because of the actor and writing but mostly the actor. That's why I sometimes can like a new character from the start, and others I hate from the start. There are vets I have never cared much about like Steve, Kayla, Shawn, Caroline.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

hops
Dec 20 2008, 01:31 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 20 2008, 01:07 PM


Days trying to re-invent J&M with new John was clever because it gave them something fresh, despite the fact that I hated resurrecting him. It worked for awhile but the problem is I don't think the bulk of fans want to see a long- built up love story, especially with a couple who was already together and who the audience knows will end up together. Where's the suspense that comes from not knowing if they will make it? Nowhere because we've been down this road so many times with them and other couples, the fans know the outcome.
I can tell you that I was exactly what I wanted....the long slow build up. I wanted to watch a new John and Marlena and I know so many that wanted that too. Quite a few fans that had been turned off returned in Jan/Feb/Mar and then left when they realized that story wasn't going to happen. They took Stefano out of the equation, they kept taking Marlena off canvas. They didn't try and build a bond between J&M. There was so much story, but the writers just didn't want to go there. TPTB didn't even try. The suspense is in the story, in the obstacles. Marlena injected Stefano and put him in a coma...why didn't they play that story out? John just up and walks away without a fight? That was the conflict. John and Marlena finding each other again could have been woven into that story. There are no excuses. And I love a great love story. Love conquering all. And I think there is an audience for that kind of story.
Well, I know there is an audience for it but do they count in the ratings? That is all the execs care about. Look at January and February. The only week Days got a substantial gain was the week after the plane crash. That's it. If so many people were interesting a new J&M love story, why didn't they come back during that time period when John came back and we got those great scenes of him and Marlena reuniting and at the hospital? For months before that, all the boards were full of J&M fans saying that fans would come back in droves if John came back and they got their J&M love story. Well, John came back and Days lost most of it's bump from the holiday weeks. It got some back thanks to the traditional MLK day bump but lost most of it again the week after. It basically was only a bit higher then it is in these ratings right now so that only further convinces execs that the fans they are focusing on don't want that kind of story or maybe not with J&M. Maybe some people felt it was played before and don't care about the unique concept of it. Again, I'm with you on this because I think it could've been great but I also recognize that Days is a business and if they think something is not helping them, they have to re-evaluate and I'm not so sure the J&M story was helping in that regard.

I also agree with Sindacco. It's not about how long the person is been there for me, although that makes you feel comfortable with certain characters more then others.
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hops
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 20 2008, 02:10 PM
hops
Dec 20 2008, 01:31 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 20 2008, 01:07 PM


Days trying to re-invent J&M with new John was clever because it gave them something fresh, despite the fact that I hated resurrecting him. It worked for awhile but the problem is I don't think the bulk of fans want to see a long- built up love story, especially with a couple who was already together and who the audience knows will end up together. Where's the suspense that comes from not knowing if they will make it? Nowhere because we've been down this road so many times with them and other couples, the fans know the outcome.
I can tell you that I was exactly what I wanted....the long slow build up. I wanted to watch a new John and Marlena and I know so many that wanted that too. Quite a few fans that had been turned off returned in Jan/Feb/Mar and then left when they realized that story wasn't going to happen. They took Stefano out of the equation, they kept taking Marlena off canvas. They didn't try and build a bond between J&M. There was so much story, but the writers just didn't want to go there. TPTB didn't even try. The suspense is in the story, in the obstacles. Marlena injected Stefano and put him in a coma...why didn't they play that story out? John just up and walks away without a fight? That was the conflict. John and Marlena finding each other again could have been woven into that story. There are no excuses. And I love a great love story. Love conquering all. And I think there is an audience for that kind of story.
Well, I know there is an audience for it but do they count in the ratings? That is all the execs care about. Look at January and February. The only week Days got a substantial gain was the week after the plane crash. That's it. If so many people were interesting a new J&M love story, why didn't they come back during that time period when John came back and we got those great scenes of him and Marlena reuniting and at the hospital? For months before that, all the boards were full of J&M fans saying that fans would come back in droves if John came back and they got their J&M love story. Well, John came back and Days lost most of it's bump from the holiday weeks. It got some back thanks to the traditional MLK day bump but lost most of it again the week after. It basically was only a bit higher then it is in these ratings right now so that only further convinces execs that the fans they are focusing on don't want that kind of story or maybe not with J&M. Maybe some people felt it was played before and don't care about the unique concept of it. Again, I'm with you on this because I think it could've been great but I also recognize that Days is a business and if they think something is not helping them, they have to re-evaluate and I'm not so sure the J&M story was helping in that regard.

I also agree with Sindacco. It's not about how long the person is been there for me, although that makes you feel comfortable with certain characters more then others.
But people were interested and were starting to come back. If I'm not mistaken they were getting a slow build and the demos were good. Give it a chance. But they didn't and then instead of gaining the audience back, they lost them and more. You don't just drop the conflict and then expect the audience to not notice. TPTB may think the audience is stupid, but we are not, lol. And that goes for the whole show. It's not just about J&M, lol. Hey, I want my J&M story, but I do recognize there are other characters and stories.

And it doesn't matter to me how long a person has been on the show for me either. As I said before, I was flipping channels one day and saw John and Marlena in a scene and I was instantly attracted to them. But as much as they caught my attention and moved me, I had watched soaps before and I wasn't interested in watching them go through the same old soap formula of falling in love with someone new just as they were about to walk down the aisle, if they ever made it there. It took three years before I just gave in and starting taping, because I thought they were worth whatever time I got to see them together. I had to get tapes to watch what I had missed. And I know I'm lucky. I got to love a soap couple that have a 23 year history together.

It's too bad Higley is writing John and Marlena's ending. I didn't like her writing style the first time and she hasn't made me change my mind this time. She doesn't know how to touch the heart.
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e83talus
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Pheonix,

I agree with your point that audiences don't want to see a slow slow slow build up. Just as we did not want him to have insta memories and they get back together. We wanted to see a build up but not a year build up, which is really what they gave us. Soaps don't do that anymore and Days writing staff should have been aware of that. I remember when we as J&M fans waited years between the affair and the 1997 reunion for them to be together finally. I don't have the time or the attention span to sit through that again though. I don't think many soap audiences do either.

Dena Higley only seems to know how to do long long slow slow buildups, like they did with J&M or insta love like Chelsea and Dan, Lucas and Chloe, and Rafe and Sami! Is there no middle ground for audiences to get invested? The only exception this year has been Ej and Nicole. Everyone else on screen blinks and seems to fall in love or lust with another person. I don't get it and appaently they don't either.
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Alligato
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jane1978
Dec 20 2008, 10:27 AM
The vets are played and done. I love to watch new romances grow, I love to watch stories when the outcome is not clear, I love to watch characters fighting with the obstacles when the ostacles have a real chance to destroy them.

jane - I am actually with you girl.
Unless they plan on pairing Hope with EJ or something where the vets are shaken up a bit and focus on characters instead of couples, I could give a crap about the next sickeningly sweet arguement Bo and Hope have, or Steve with Ava knowing good and well he and Kayla will never break up.

I love new romances, and the obstacles and uncertain outcomes. Knowing Bo and Hope will always be together makes for absolutely NO excitement. They were the best in their prime and now it is time for a new prime couple. Hope can serve tea in the kitchen.
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☼ Jinx ☼
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Live. Love. Laugh. ♥

Chloe and Daniel disgust me! Lucas and Kate should know what's going on - a doctor/patient relationship can't and shouldn't be that close.
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Mason
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jane1978
Dec 20 2008, 08:37 AM
Mason
Dec 19 2008, 07:41 PM
Daniel/Chloe? Max/Chelsea?

Is this REALLY supposed to make people want to watch, on Christmas week, no less? LoL
Why not? This atleast feels fresh and like the show really moved on. New couples, new stories, new era.

I think having the same people in the promo for twenty years still not able to reunite is not exactly the best way how to lure in new viewers.

Why not? Because they suck, LoL.
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cjknick
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Alligato
Dec 20 2008, 11:58 PM
jane1978
Dec 20 2008, 10:27 AM
The vets are played and done. I love to watch new romances grow, I love to watch stories when the outcome is not clear, I love to watch characters fighting with the obstacles when the ostacles have a real chance to destroy them.

jane - I am actually with you girl.
Unless they plan on pairing Hope with EJ or something where the vets are shaken up a bit and focus on characters instead of couples, I could give a crap about the next sickeningly sweet arguement Bo and Hope have, or Steve with Ava knowing good and well he and Kayla will never break up.

I love new romances, and the obstacles and uncertain outcomes. Knowing Bo and Hope will always be together makes for absolutely NO excitement. They were the best in their prime and now it is time for a new prime couple. Hope can serve tea in the kitchen.
ITA Supercouples are hard to write for because the writer's get crap if they break them up and if they keep them together you are stuck will little drama. You can only do so many near death or illness s/l. You can only do so many near break-up s/l and just how many times do these couples have to remarry????? I for one wouldn't mind a EJ/Hope fling or something to shake up Salem - that would do the trick alright!
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hops
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What happened to variety? I think there is room for couples that love and respect each other and have outside conflict and for the characters that don't stay with a person for more then six months. Why must it all be the same? To me that is boring.
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Mason
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Frankly, I don't care if it's the "vets" that are getting all the stories. Characters like Bo, Hope, John, Marlena, etc. were all newbies at one point, themselves.

I just want the characters that are frontburner to be ones I actually like, regardless of how long they've been on the show. If characters like Shawn, Belle, Philip, Nick, Chelsea, E.J., Nicole, etc. got more airtime than the "vets", I could be okay with that, because I like those characters.

On the other hand, I don't care about/like Daniel, Chloe, Lucas, Stephanie, Melanie, Max, Rafe, etc., so even if their stories were brilliant (although they're FAR from it), it wouldn't make a difference to me.
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cjknick
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hops
Dec 21 2008, 06:40 PM
What happened to variety? I think there is room for couples that love and respect each other and have outside conflict and for the characters that don't stay with a person for more then six months. Why must it all be the same? To me that is boring.
I'm all for balance but I also understand that after telling 15-20 years of stories about one pairing there may not be much more to tell... My sister who used to watch Days and is now back to work said she hadn't watch Days in years and then one night she was channel surfing and came across soapnet and Days was on and she said she couldn't believe it the last time she watched Days years ago Hope was kidnapped and guess what in this episode Hope was kidnapped! She said it was like she never stopped watching... She laughed and shook her head.
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Mikegoldy
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jane1978
Dec 20 2008, 08:37 AM
Mason
Dec 19 2008, 07:41 PM
Daniel/Chloe? Max/Chelsea?

Is this REALLY supposed to make people want to watch, on Christmas week, no less? LoL
Why not? This atleast feels fresh and like the show really moved on. New couples, new stories, new era.

I think having the same people in the promo for twenty years still not able to reunite is not exactly the best way how to lure in new viewers.

Word!
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Mikegoldy
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Ponz
Dec 20 2008, 12:34 PM
jane1978
Dec 20 2008, 11:03 AM

As for Dan/Chloe, sex sells, thatīs nothing new. And thanks god someone at DAYS finally remember that. Couple planning a wedding together while the future wife/husband has the hots for someone else is classic soap and I just love watching all the parts clicking together for the inevitable catastrophe.


It would be classic soap if someone in the story was sympathetic or rootable. As it is, they've just set up one incredibly superficial couple (Lucas/Chloe) to be destroyed in favor of another even more superficial couple. The story is all plot and no substance.
It's all in how you look at it though. I see Lucas and Chloe as two depressed and lonely people who have come together out of need. Do I think they are really in love? No. But they need to believe they are. And the Daniel-Chloe thing is classic soap to me. It's sleazy and scandalous, just like how I like my soaps.
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Mikegoldy
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The problem with couples like Bo and Hope, John and Marlena, and Steve and Kayla, is that they have been written to be "soulmates," and how nothing can ever come between their special love. And that is fine for a movie like Titanic. There is a beginning and an end. But unless you are sold on one of those particular couples, there is absolutely no suspense or enjoyment for those of us who know they are going to be eventually reunited. Why bother watching if I know the ending? The writing for the John and Marlena story has been awful. I don't blame their fans for being upset about it. I don't think John should have ever come back. But since he did come back, it would have been interesting to think that maybe John and Marlena would NOT have gotten back together. John would forever be changed, and Marlena would have to accept that the man she loved was gone. They could have been paired with new people; had viable romances. You better believe that as soon as it appeared as though John and Marlena were NOT getting back together, that is when the most people would want them to reunite. Hell, if it really looked like that John had fallen in love with someone else, and that Marlena had truly moved on and found someone new, that is the moment when I would have remembered how special they were together and possibly rooted for their reunion.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Mikegoldy
Dec 21 2008, 08:10 PM
The problem with couples like Bo and Hope, John and Marlena, and Steve and Kayla, is that they have been written to be "soulmates," and how nothing can ever come between their special love. And that is fine for a movie like Titanic. There is a beginning and an end. But unless you are sold on one of those particular couples, there is absolutely no suspense or enjoyment for those of us who know they are going to be eventually reunited. Why bother watching if I know the ending? The writing for the John and Marlena story has been awful. I don't blame their fans for being upset about it. I don't think John should have ever come back. But since he did come back, it would have been interesting to think that maybe John and Marlena would NOT have gotten back together. John would forever be changed, and Marlena would have to accept that the man she loved was gone. They could have been paired with new people; had viable romances. You better believe that as soon as it appeared as though John and Marlena were NOT getting back together, that is when the most people would want them to reunite. Hell, if it really looked like that John had fallen in love with someone else, and that Marlena had truly moved on and found someone new, that is the moment when I would have remembered how special they were together and possibly rooted for their reunion.
Exactly.

Summed up my feelings. The suspense is gone. In the 80's and 90's, it was there and that is what made the stories involving these couples great. Now's, it's not. I think they had a chance to do it with Steve and Kayla when they returned and with J&M when John returned but they blew it.

I see so many complaints about not wanting the predictable. Well, telling stories with these couples would be predictable. We know the end result before the story begins to why bother? TV, in general, is predictable enough with very few original ideas so why make it even worse?

Days is going to lose fans doing this. They did in the 80's and the 90's. I think that is why it took them so long to do something like this because with ratings already falling, they panicked. Now, their being forced by economics to make a daring decision and I'm glad because I don't think they would've otherwise. They needed to do something drastic a long time ago and I think they have accepted they will lose fans and have to deal with backlash. They did in the 80's and 90's but they banked on new fans coming in and it worked. They are doing the same here and it's looking good NOW. Maybe it won't in a few months but they have nothing to lose at this point.
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