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Possible spoiler, re: Grace
Topic Started: May 17 2009, 06:32 PM (17,828 Views)
luvpumpkns
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laptop
May 26 2009, 10:01 AM
if you have only watched since las vegas, then you really have no real idea of the history of what transpired between lucas and sami with things involving will. sami had a lot of reasons to hate lucas. as to whether she should have married austin, of course not. and if you saw the nicole-austin scenes that took place then, you probably figured that they should have been the rooting couple. personally, i sort of agree.

how does what happened between lucas and sami affect the things she did to will years later? i'll concede that she may have had some unselfish reasoning for wanting lucas not to have custody, like his drinking, for example, but she's done bad things to will that had nothing to do with all that. when she was stan she was basically drugging the kid's grandfather. that's a horribly destructive thing to do, and it had nothing to do with her problems with lucas. then you have the whole thing with ej. like i said, she told lucas and will she was raped. she obviously changed her mind because she slept with ej a year later willingly enough--while lucas was in jail for avenging her supposed rape. all this caused will to run away to a foreign country to live with relatives. again, that has no bearing on her and lucas' past problems, but that didn't stop her from doing the wrong thing by will.

to get back on topic, i'm not going to blame sami for grace's death, as i don't know why she dies. as others have pointed out, this could be some congenital thing from mia or grace's bio father that sami has no control over. i'm not even saying that sami needs to be seen fussing over her all the time to be a good mom to grace. it just bothers me that she brushes off what seems to be a recurring fever as teething even when lexie told her to bring her back to the hospital if the fever continued, and to me, that makes her a bad mom to grace. but IMO, she's been a bad mom to all of her kids in one way or another, so it comes as no surprise to me.
Edited by luvpumpkns, May 26 2009, 10:25 AM.
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michelle
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How bout them Denver Nuggets?
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Paxton
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Dreaming of a Melanie-free Days

luvpumpkns
May 26 2009, 10:23 AM
to get back on topic, i'm not going to blame sami for grace's death, as i don't know why she dies. as others have pointed out, this could be some congenital thing from mia or grace's bio father that sami has no control over.
Exactly. Whether you fall on the side of Sami being a good mother or a bad one (and luvpumpkins, I'm on your side about not being impressed by Sami's mothering skilz), it may be totally irrelevant to Grace's death. Sami could be the best mother in the entire world the rest of the time and still be at fault for Grace's death for some reason, or conversely, she could be a horribly negligent mother in general but Grace's death could be absolutely unrelated to her negligence, and she could have died no matter who was in charge of her.

My guess would be that Grace's death will not be written to be Sami's fault, but that Sami will blame herself at least temporarily, like she did about her lack of prenatal care at the clinic. It's very sad and very common for parents who lose children to blame themselves and each other, even when it was simply an accident or otherwise not preventable. If EJ finds out that Sami was hiding Grace from him because she thought Grace was his, I wouldn't be surprised if he blamed her, even if that blame is entirely unfair, simply on the grounds that the child died in her care and he's lashing out. Then I wonder how Rafe will respond, since does he have some responsibility here too? He certainly should, IMO. That's part of the drama, after all, or it should be--why kill off a baby if you're not going to explore all the emotions that come with it? Don't answer that question . . . .

ETA:

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How bout them Denver Nuggets?


I know! Great conference finals on both sides so far. I'm amusedly imagining David Stern waking up in cold sweats as he imagines himself trying to market Denver-Orlando instead of the Kobe-LeBron matchup the L and the media have been shoving down my throat.
Edited by Paxton, May 26 2009, 10:36 AM.
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Livie


i am at a loss as to what you think she has done to will? his embarrassment at her being sam? ok..but square that with how he should have felt if he had ever known his father was willing to let his mother go to jail for 20 years for something he did? now that would be embarassing..

sorry, but the kid has long been a whining bag of hairball, only interested in his mom buying him the latest in basketball shoes..

on the one hand he tells her he understands she is only trying to save the family, then he wants to go live in switzerland?? ok, i get it was a plotline to make people think he was the shooter, but the writers have not gone that direction.

i do not think she has changed her mind on what she did with ej, it was to get him to get the beam off of lucas. for those that hold that against her, hey, i would have preferred at that time she just let him die, but that is me..i never liked lucas then. as for now, i am finding him a bit more likeable but just as clueless.

some ejami fans do not think ej raped her, i am not one of those. he did, but as she said last year, she did the same to austin. now i will say when sami did it to austin, she was a teenager, and also was urged to do it by the demonic marlena. ej was not a teen, but he was urged to do it by the demonic stefano dad

sami and the teething pain, well from what i have seen, the fever has never been above 101..and for those of us who have had children, that is not a worrisome fever. it is mild, and nothing a dr. now would even tell you to come in with, unless it has other symptoms. we have not heard of vomiting, or not feeding except for the rash problem at the convent. again, these are normal occurences with babies.

i have a friend who had an infant die of liver cancer. the baby had a mild fever for a couple of weeks, and the dr. did not even say to bring her child in..until she saw the babies abdomen swell..that was the symptom the dr. was told by my friend which brought the request to bring the child in. so nothing sami has heard from the great dr. carver has been urgent enough for her to take her back, a spiking fever means it goes very high, very rapidly in the same day. so far we have not seen this has happened on screen.

sami has done nothing wrong in her care of this child, or of the twins.
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six
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I'm pretty much in agreement with Paxton's post. I'll go so far as to say I'm 100% certain Grace's death is not going to be Sami's fault. Like it or not, they are clearly cementing Sami as a pillar of this show, and you don't get to that position if you have a baby's blood on your hands. As was said, she dropped the ball on prenatal care, while still finding time to go to a convent, and I'm sure everyone involved (besides Nicole) will wonder if that contributed to Grace's demise.

I don't think Sami would deserve much blame for Will fleeing the country, because for once she was trying to do the right thing. However, she (and Lucas at first) happily used Will as a pawn to hurt each other. She kept it up long after it was obvious to everyone, including Lucas, that it was harming Will. That's why he didn't give her the benefit of the doubt the last time. Poor kid had had enough. I don't think she's any more awful than most other people in Salem, now though*, at least she's not keeping Grace from EJ out of spite.

*except this adoption thing. Who in their right mind would even consider letting a strange man adopt their child? That's why adoption agencies do extensive background checks. At least Mia's a child, who doesn't know better, and has no family.
Edited by six, May 26 2009, 01:18 PM.
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OneBadKitty
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:popcorn:
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Mason
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And another thread bites the dust...
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Livie


i also think paxtons post was reasonable, and well thought out. i am not a hot head, but when i see absolute injustice in posting, it does bring out the reactionary side of me. that was how i took the posts that asked when graces death was announced, "what did sami the idiot do now?" to me, that was almost a slap at anyone who may have had a child die...

just as i never ever would ask what a person whose child died did to bring it about..as paxton says, things happen we have no way to fathom..

as to rafe adopting grace, i guess with him being her godfather, et al protector and they way that sami seems to feel, if i were not an ejami fan, i would probably not be upset with it either. i mean if ej can hand over step mom duties to nicole when he knows sami's feelings about her then IF sami told ej about grace then said she was letting rafe adopt, i would have no problem. rafe and sami have known each other for 9 months..more time than than ej knew nicole..and i am still not a safe.
Edited by Livie, May 26 2009, 02:35 PM.
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six
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I see adoption as a larger step than making someone a stepparent, since it only pertains to the child. Even if "Grace" didn't have a father who'd be willing to step up to the plate, it's still a weird decision imo. Let him just be uncle Rafe and godfather. Of course it's a moot point since Grace isn't long for this world, and was only brought up to show Rafe's bond with her. It makes Sami look like a flake though, especially weighing it against her less than auspicious record with long term relationships, and making enemies of her exes.
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Alligato
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I kind of wish it were Sami's fault that Grace dies. Maybe she would go back to being a schemer, bad ass, sympathetic character instead of the glorified hypocritical Marlena type. People would turn against her and she would be the black sheep of the family again and we could watch her try to redeem herself.

Either way, I am highly pissed off that my guilty form of mindless entertainment is treating me AGAIN to another case of a dying baby! Who in their right fucking mind thinks it is a good idea to kill a sweet child every fucking year to further their pathetic, stupid plot lines. Shit like this pisses me off.

Oh, and for what it is worth, it is so Sami's fault that Will skipped town. Will blamed Sami himself. For someone who fights for her family/loves her kids, she was certainly willing to throw them under the bus for Stefano's demands. JMO!

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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

laptop
May 26 2009, 10:47 AM
sami and the teething pain, well from what i have seen, the fever has never been above 101..and for those of us who have had children, that is not a worrisome fever. it is mild, and nothing a dr. now would even tell you to come in with, unless it has other symptoms. we have not heard of vomiting, or not feeding except for the rash problem at the convent. again, these are normal occurences with babies.

i have a friend who had an infant die of liver cancer. the baby had a mild fever for a couple of weeks, and the dr. did not even say to bring her child in..until she saw the babies abdomen swell..that was the symptom the dr. was told by my friend which brought the request to bring the child in. so nothing sami has heard from the great dr. carver has been urgent enough for her to take her back, a spiking fever means it goes very high, very rapidly in the same day. so far we have not seen this has happened on screen.
Laptop, look I am a fellow EJami/Sami fan but I don't think any "absolute injustice" has been done to Sami based on the posts I've seen in this thread. Then again I'm a freak who nitpicks this show to death myself so I guess I have (somewhat) thicker skin when it comes to other folks critiquing my faves.

Now we don't know that Grace dying is going to be Sami's fault or that she in any way contributes to her death. And I agree that Sami is somewhat sympathetic in respect that she is definitely dealing with a very dangerous family in the DiMeras and had to go through a lot witnessing the murder and going into the WPP. That said...

There's a lot of what I've seen out of Sami lately that bothers me in how they are portraying her as a mother because I think it is doing a disservice to the character of Sami and personally it's hurting my enjoyment of the character of Sami.

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i am at a loss as to what you think she has done to will?


1. She is lying to Will about Grace and even sicker she is manipulating him with guilt to MAKE HIM FEEL BAD FOR QUESTIONING HER, creating a false relationship for him with his blood sibling and creating chaos for him in that she is decreasing the likelihood she will get to retain custody of this child when the child's true paternity and circumstances of her pregnancy are revealed.

2. She is also totally dismissive of his feelings about Rafe and had little to no consideration for his VERY valid concerns about the reckless decision she made to make Rafe Grace's adoptive father in a post-sex heart to heart, one day after their first date and with the two of them having no plans to marry and not even discussing custody arrangements for this adoption between two people who have never discussed any plans whatsoever to move in together.

3. She has repeatedly dumped Grace off on Will, even when she is sick. I understand it's just a plot point to increase Grace-Mia moments, but it's a plot point that makes Sami (and Rafe as well) look bad in my book given that they have all these long talks about wanting to be parents to Grace together yet they stick the 16-year-old kid and his girlfriend with the actual work of caring for this infant. While Will does seem like a very mature and responsible kid for his age, I just don't think it's right or fair or even a good idea for Sami to do this so much.

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sami and the teething pain, well from what i have seen, the fever has never been above 101..and for those of us who have had children, that is not a worrisome fever. it is mild, and nothing a dr. now would even tell you to come in with, unless it has other symptoms. we have not heard of vomiting, or not feeding except for the rash problem at the convent. again, these are normal occurences with babies.

i have a friend who had an infant die of liver cancer. the baby had a mild fever for a couple of weeks, and the dr. did not even say to bring her child in..until she saw the babies abdomen swell..that was the symptom the dr. was told by my friend which brought the request to bring the child in. so nothing sami has heard from the great dr. carver has been urgent enough for her to take her back, a spiking fever means it goes very high, very rapidly in the same day. so far we have not seen this has happened on screen.


First of all, I am sorry for your friend's loss and that happened to him/her and that the doctor was unable to act in time to save the baby.

In the case of this fictional baby on this show, I don't think Lexie Carver should be blamed too much based on what we know... at least not yet. Lexie did tell Sami to take the baby back into the hospital if she got a fever again. She also told Sami to keep a close eye on Grace, which I don't think she really has lived up to when she's been off in so many different directions fighting with EJ over Johnny or sleeping with Rafe or running off to the pub and leaving Grace with Will rather than actually keeping an eye on the child. It also bothered me that Lexie was never able to formally discharge the patient and give her final recommendations/report to Sami when she was at the hospital because Sami was written to be so much more concerned about seeing Dr. Baker and her pregnancy secret coming out than Grace's health.
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esp13
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I think Paxton's post pretty much summed it up. But, I'll add this little thought as well --

Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Until we know otherwise, I'm going to presume that this is the case with Grace.
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Livie


^imiss..it was a post which may have been in another thread..

ref to the death of grace "what has that idiot sami done now"..laying blame for the death of grace onto sami, and there is really no other way to take it..that is an injustice. i have seen people pre judge what sami is going to do in other lines of reasoning by the same type of sami haters..

one time being she was going to abort grace when she went to the clinic the first time. for anyone to say that shows they have no concept of her character,..all you have to do is listen to what ej says about sami and children..and again, lexies instructions had to do with the babies fever spiking..not returning..teething children run fevers quite a bit, in fact until the tooth breaks through often times..

i have had 4 kids, including one set of twins and am also a grandma..so i know what i am talking about.

and since we already had an epi of the safe sex, sami says nothing about grace wanting anything more than a feeding so she was not sick then apparently.

will? hell he also uses grace to keep mia around him, so what is the big whoops on that.

i do not think sami dismisses wills problems with rafe..she told him, if it is because he is not your dad, that is not fair, if it is something else we will talk about it..that to me, is very reasonable, and if will is ok with chloe, then he should have no problem with his mother wanting to have a relationship.

as i said, per the story we have, we do not know if rafe is bad or the second coming. for that we have to wait and see.

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luvpumpkns
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laptop
May 26 2009, 09:06 PM
..and again, lexies instructions had to do with the babies fever spiking..not returning..teething children run fevers quite a bit, in fact until the tooth breaks through often times..

here's the direct quote:

Lexie: Well, her temperature's normal now, so it was probably nothing more than a low-grade viral infection.

Sami: Oh.

Lexie: Keep a close eye on her. If she runs a fever again, bring her back in, okay?


the problem is we have conflicting doctors telling sami two different things. lexie said it was a viral infection. if that were true, grace running a fever for weeks wouldn't be normal. then we have another doctor sami has spoken to on the phone only(as far as we know) saying it's teething. the writers need to pick a problem and stick with it. i realize sami was only at the hospital that day so she could see dr. baker, but why would they go to the trouble of having lexie give sami a completely different diagnosis than the other doctor, and then have sami totally blow it off? it just looks bad on her part.
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Livie


^almost afraid to say anything anymore cuz it ends up with posts saying "oh curses..the thread is destroyed"..but only seems to happen if someone is taking up sami's side..wonder of wonders???

again, nothing sami has done makes her a bad mother imo, when she starts interfering in wills life, telling him who to love..or what job he should have..then i will agree she is a bad mother ala kate....nicole leaves syd in the care of mary the maid who has a lot of other duties so to harp on wills being asked to baby sit for a half hour or so is kind of nit picky, but then sami gets that a lot. it is rather like the parable about the speck vs the log in a persons eye..

and the title of this thread was "possible spoiler re: grace" then it became a way to show how sami is at fault somehow, or is a bad mother..so i do not think me defending a character i love is ruining this thread (sticks tongue out now) :hmmph:
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charliexvx
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I think it would be very dramatic if they had Grace clinging to life, and not die, her death will not move the storyline ahead. What I'd like to see happen through this line is that Sami does finally tell EJ even if its something he overhears her say while praying for Grace, and the same day on the same episode, EJ overhears Nicole speak of the swap. What he does then would be anyones guess, talking to Sami at that time while Grace is so ill, would be very ill advised and EJ though a monster lately, is not that heartless a man.
What needs to happen either way is Nicole finally get hers. She has kept the truth from EJ and has used both Mia and Brady to do it. She isnt afraid of EJ going to jail because of Stephanie, shes afraid he will find out her secret and the sad thing is Stefano knows and I think EJ has a clue or would have had more of one had this situation with Owen and Stephanie not happened when it did. I think Stefano needs to come clean to EJ and let the pieces fall wherever they fall
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KristianFanForever
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Shove your crappy show where the sun don't shine, Corday!

The only one who deserves to "get hers" is idiot Sami.
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michelle
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And idiot Nicole.
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KristianFanForever
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Shove your crappy show where the sun don't shine, Corday!

michelle
May 29 2009, 09:25 PM
And idiot Nicole.
If you say so. :)
Edited by KristianFanForever, May 29 2009, 10:20 PM.
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Tammy
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Since I don't keep tabs on this show anymore I wanted to get this straight lol. So the baby, Grace, is actually Mia's baby right? And Nicole has Sami's baby? Or do I totally have all of this ass backwards?
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