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SOD: Sami loses Johnny; June 30th issue; Article Summary
Topic Started: Jun 17 2009, 10:50 AM (4,874 Views)
IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

:lol:

I love that your response to this...

Quote:
 
I have no desire to see yet another thread deteriorate into fanbase fighting shit, especially when my post was actually defending THE WRITERS from what I thought was unfair criticism of how they are writing the Will character and not even really having anything to do with EJ or EJami.


includes this random comment...

Quote:
 
I personally believe EJAMI is dead and was never a couple


:lol:

Anyway re: Will and Ej's relationship...

Quote:
 
this is the ONE character whose hatred of EJ was known even to speculation that he actually shot him.


The ONE character? Was there anyone in Salem who didn't have a motive to shoot EJ at the time he was shot? Hell weren't there two or three guns at the ceremony getting ready to fire at him? I remember some Lucas fans and others speculating maybe Will shot him and Lucas was covering up given how awkwardly it seemed Will was written out with Sami and him not even getting a goodbye scene, but I'm not sure what fan speculation about that particular plot point proves in terms of the character hating EJ to the point he could never get so mad at Sami that he dared to express some sort of empathy or understanding for EJ when they are both dealing with a lot of grief and hurt over the same dead baby that Sami lied to them about for the child's entire short life.

Quote:
 
So when I read that he's basically in EJ's side, then I'm going to get pissed and question it.


OK.
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Liz<3Days
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Actually I was replying to this...
Quote:
 
I am genuinely curious though if you and/or others still believe the show is still "pimping" EJ and/or EJami based on what goes down at this funeral.


I didn't say one word about EJAMI and/or fanbase wars and frankly dont care, but you ASKED me my opinion on whether EJAMI and/or EJ was being "pimped."

Now because I said that EJAMI is dead and never a couple, you call it random? Sorry but I'm not going to sugarcoat my thoughts on the most idiotic decision in DAYS history.

You asked...I answered!
Liz
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Aliaron
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Puleeze! I stand by my statment. This show is totally still pimping EJ after several years. This week Will understands. Next week he's totally on EJ's side.

No logic. No consistancy. The only that feels everyone is acting in character are EJ fans. But I don't feel his pain. I could careless about it because the show continues to wipe all the damage that hypocrite done under the
Rug.

The only one I'm feeling bad for is Nicole. At least she recognizes she's doing wrong.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

Aliaron
Jun 19 2009, 09:34 AM
Puleeze! I stand by my statment. This show is totally still pimping EJ after several years. This week Will understands. Next week he's totally on EJ's side.

No logic. No consistancy. The only that feels everyone is acting in character are EJ fans. But I don't feel his pain. I could careless about it because the show continues to wipe all the damage that hypocrite done under the
Rug.

The only one I'm feeling bad for is Nicole. At least she recognizes she's doing wrong.
Wow. I'm not really quite sure where to start on this...which is probably a clear sign that I shouldn't even go here...but what the heck. :shrug:

First of all, I do agree with you that the writing on the show is inconsistent. I doubt too many people would argue that point. I'm not sure why you state
Quote:
 
The only that feels everyone is acting in character are EJ fans.
I certainly don't feel that way. I don't see the show 'pimping' EJ at this point. In fact, it seems they are intent on painting him as purely evil in order to make Sami's reasons for hiding their daughter from him appear to have some validation. Never mind the fact that she's been praising him to the heavens for what 'a great Dad' he is to Johnny. It seems everyone basically lines up at the funeral to get their shot in at EJ - and while I can certainly understand Stephanie's rage, I think the timing is just flat out wrong. As someone else said, taking the opportunity to make the funeralof her cousin's infant all about her is pretty tasteless...but whatever. It seems to me the writers are pounding home the point that EJ has crossed a line and thus deserves to be scorned and mocked and lied to about his children. Which, as we all know, continues to happen.

The truth is...we can make a long, long list of things that EJ has done that he deserves to be condemned for. (Of course, we could make similar lists for just about everyone else at that funeral - particularly Sami and Nicole.) But in this one instance - the story revolving Grace - the simple fact is EJ is the victim here. Sami lied. Nicole is still lying. EJ has done nothing wrong in regard to what happened with Grace and is happening with Sydney - and his pain and suffering at learning he had a child and was not permitted to know her until it was too late is valid. Was he a shit to Stephanie? Absolutely. Can he be an arrogant jackass? You bet. But none of that has anything to do with his current grief over this baby - which isn't even his.

Which brings me to your final point. The last person in this story that I feel badly for is Nicole. Recognizing you are doing something wrong doesn't mean a damned thing unless you are willing to take steps to correct it. She isn't. We get to see lots of (extremely well acted) scenes of Nicole's heartbreak and guilt - yet she continues to let the husband she supposedly adores suffer this unimaginable grief, she continues to pass off another woman's child as her own, and stands by and watches quietly as a young teen mother grieves for a baby she doesn't even realize was hers.

I love Ari Zucker and she's kicking ass with this material - but that doesn't change the fact that each and every day Nicole gets closer and closer to becoming unredeemable. Her actions, and the fact she just said to Brady the other day that she'd do it all again, certainly don't support her sniveling and groveling prayers to God and Grace for forgiveness.
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GoldenGirl


SocRMum1
Jun 19 2009, 09:51 AM
Aliaron
Jun 19 2009, 09:34 AM
Puleeze! I stand by my statment. This show is totally still pimping EJ after several years. This week Will understands. Next week he's totally on EJ's side.

No logic. No consistancy. The only that feels everyone is acting in character are EJ fans. But I don't feel his pain. I could careless about it because the show continues to wipe all the damage that hypocrite done under the
Rug.

The only one I'm feeling bad for is Nicole. At least she recognizes she's doing wrong.
Wow. I'm not really quite sure where to start on this...which is probably a clear sign that I shouldn't even go here...but what the heck. :shrug:

First of all, I do agree with you that the writing on the show is inconsistent. I doubt too many people would argue that point. I'm not sure why you state
Quote:
 
The only that feels everyone is acting in character are EJ fans.
I certainly don't feel that way. I don't see the show 'pimping' EJ at this point. In fact, it seems they are intent on painting him as purely evil in order to make Sami's reasons for hiding their daughter from him appear to have some validation. Never mind the fact that she's been praising him to the heavens for what 'a great Dad' he is to Johnny. It seems everyone basically lines up at the funeral to get their shot in at EJ - and while I can certainly understand Stephanie's rage, I think the timing is just flat out wrong. As someone else said, taking the opportunity to make the funeralof her cousin's infant all about her is pretty tasteless...but whatever. It seems to me the writers are pounding home the point that EJ has crossed a line and thus deserves to be scorned and mocked and lied to about his children. Which, as we all know, continues to happen.

The truth is...we can make a long, long list of things that EJ has done that he deserves to be condemned for. (Of course, we could make similar lists for just about everyone else at that funeral - particularly Sami and Nicole.) But in this one instance - the story revolving Grace - the simple fact is EJ is the victim here. Sami lied. Nicole is still lying. EJ has done nothing wrong in regard to what happened with Grace and is happening with Sydney - and his pain and suffering at learning he had a child and was not permitted to know her until it was too late is valid. Was he a shit to Stephanie? Absolutely. Can he be an arrogant jackass? You bet. But none of that has anything to do with his current grief over this baby - which isn't even his.

Which brings me to your final point. The last person in this story that I feel badly for is Nicole. Recognizing you are doing something wrong doesn't mean a damned thing unless you are willing to take steps to correct it. She isn't. We get to see lots of (extremely well acted) scenes of Nicole's heartbreak and guilt - yet she continues to let the husband she supposedly adores suffer this unimaginable grief, she continues to pass off another woman's child as her own, and stands by and watches quietly as a young teen mother grieves for a baby she doesn't even realize was hers.

I love Ari Zucker and she's kicking ass with this material - but that doesn't change the fact that each and every day Nicole gets closer and closer to becoming unredeemable. Her actions, and the fact she just said to Brady the other day that she'd do it all again, certainly don't support her sniveling and groveling prayers to God and Grace for forgiveness.
WORD!
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Nicole Walker


Nicole is totally redeemable.
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mirabella


Nicole Dimera
Jun 19 2009, 10:38 AM
Nicole is totally redeemable.
I agree. There are really not many characters, if any, on soaps that cannot be redeemed. It takes the stroke of a pen to change things.
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Mason
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If characters like Stefano and Victor can become mainstays on the show for 20+ years, Nicole can most certainly be redeemed. This whole time, she has never been written as a total villain. The writers and especially Ari have made sure to show us all sides of her character throughout this story. If you really believe Nicole can't be redeemed after this, I think it's just wishful thinking on your part, because characters have done a hell of a lot worse and been redeemed.
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

Nicole Dimera
Jun 19 2009, 10:38 AM
Nicole is totally redeemable.
I think the writers could redeem Nicole if they put the work into it (and thus I don't blame AZ for saying herself she has some trepidation of whether it's possible to ever redeem her character given how notoriously lazy DOOL writers are) like if say Stefano ran off with Sydney and Nicole was the one who gave EJ and Sami the clues to get their baby back despite knowing telling them the truth would result in her being out on her butt from the mansion and losing EJ and losing her lavish lifestyle and possibly facing jail time and the writers subsequently played out those beats to show Nicole was facing sufficient punishment for what she's done, but I agree with SocR 100 % that at this point Nicole is the least sympathetic character in the baby story.

Just because AZ is the best actor in this storyline at acting sad and crying, doesn't change the words Nicole is saying and has said like upon finding out about Grace's illness she heads to the chapel to scream "Damn you Sami Brady!" and also says she'd do all of this all over again. It also doesn't change her actions which are to keep quiet about all of this to put herself and her agenda before all these suffering people who have the right to honestly grieve their babies (yes, babies because EJ should have gotten to grieve the baby Nicole miscarried the same as Mia and Sami deserve to grieve Grace knowing the truth about her) yet Nicole is denying them that. That just makes her very convincingly acted anguish over knowing she is doing the wrong thing turn into crocodile tears for me and thus she doesn't have my sympathy because I'm not convinced Nicole feels sorry for anyone but HERSELF in having this moment of triumph in playing God and creating this web of lies and having everyone believe them turn out to be less satisfying than she had hoped with her actually having to see all these sad people around her that are taking some of the enjoyment for her out of playing house with Sami's baby and Sami's ex because horror of horrors... this tragedy is actually making her feel GUILT. Sorry, but I can't feel sorry for Nicole feeling guilty when she IS guilty.
Edited by IMissAremid, Jun 19 2009, 11:01 AM.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

mirabella
Jun 19 2009, 10:41 AM
Nicole Dimera
Jun 19 2009, 10:38 AM
Nicole is totally redeemable.
I agree. There are really not many characters, if any, on soaps that cannot be redeemed. It takes the stroke of a pen to change things.
Very true. Characters are redeemed all the time - at least to some level.

But some fans never forget or forgive - as has been the case with the people who hate Sami for what she did all those years ago to Jarlena; those who hate EJ for what he did to Sami and Lumi; etc. And you can't do much about that.

The trick is how hard it will be to redeem any character in the eyes of the GA. My point regarding Nicole is that each day this goes on, I think it will make it all the harder to redeem her in the eyes of the GA. Nicole fans will give her automatic forgiveness. EJami fans are less likely to ever forgive her. The catch will be how long will it take the GA.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

Mason
Jun 19 2009, 10:59 AM
If characters like Stefano and Victor can become mainstays on the show for 20+ years, Nicole can most certainly be redeemed. This whole time, she has never been written as a total villain. The writers and especially Ari have made sure to show us all sides of her character throughout this story. If you really believe Nicole can't be redeemed after this, I think it's just wishful thinking on your part, because characters have done a hell of a lot worse and been redeemed.
Stefano and Victor have become mainstays on the show for all these years without ever needing to be redeemed. They are villians (Stefano more than Victor, but Vic has certainly had his moments) and thus aren't expected to require redemption.

As you said, Nicole isn't being written as a flat out villian which is what makes me think they will want to redeem her at some point - in order for her to move on to another relationship down the road. I personally always liked the character, prior to the babypalooza crap, and I'm sure I will again. But I do believe redeeming her is going to be a tough sell.

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Nicole Walker


I do feel sorry for Nicole and I love how the writers are writing her. They are obviously not trying to make her the cold hearted villan it's a very complexed situation but Ari portrays it so well. Go Nicole! Tomorrows show is even better. She may not tell the truth but at least she feels something not only for Grace but for Sami as well. She feels it and that tells me that deep down somewhere there's some goodness down in that scheming heart of hers and that is what the writers are showing. So yeah I see that they are trying to work on her redemption. Old Nicole would not care about people being sad around her, she'd revel in her victory but she's not just one clue that Nicole isn't the same as she used to be. Still a schemer but something inside of her has changed and the writers are using that to make this work.
Edited by Nicole Walker, Jun 19 2009, 11:22 AM.
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daisy132


I'm looking forward to the Johnny storyline. It looks like a lot will be explained and discovered by all characters involved.

I am getting tired of Nicole. I just think that to put it tactfully, she is mentally and emotionally fragile. She is heading towards a breakdown, and I think that will be her redemption. She will lose everything, which is what she feared most, and she will start over or leave again (which is entirely possible with Ari being pregnant for the first time, and no doubt looking forward to spending time with her baby). If Sami, Lucas, EJ (he will be redeemed again, I have no doubt, also in the Johnny storyline), Jack, Phillip, Kate, to name but just a few could be redeemed, Nicole certainly can.
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michelle
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I like the old Nicole. This one is a whiny, weepy, whimpy mess. I don't see how anyone can stand her right now.
Edited by michelle, Jun 20 2009, 01:07 PM.
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Tara


I like Nicole she is the best thing on this show riight now. Ari is acting circle around every one
Edited by Tara, Jun 20 2009, 01:56 PM.
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UKDaysFan
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Nicole Dimera
Jun 19 2009, 11:15 AM
She may not tell the truth but at least she feels something not only for Grace but for Sami as well. She feels it and that tells me that deep down somewhere there's some goodness down in that scheming heart of hers and that is what the writers are showing.
See, I just don't buy a word of her guilty ramblings. To me, she simply has no credibility in relation to what she's saying and it goes in one ear and out the other. It's easy to sit on your own and lament about how bad you feel, but we all know she doesn't feel bad enough to actually remedy the situation. She can empathise with Sami's situation but she doesn't actually want to help her unless it doesn't impact her world. As the saying goes, talk is cheap.

The other annoyance I have with her is how she is continually trying to rewrite why she swapped babies. The primary reason was so that she had less chance of getting caught and not so that EJ could be close to his biological daughter. That's just BS.

Also, I was really surprised that she sat through EJ telling her that he'd loved Sami while he'd been married to her. The Nicole of the past would have had more backbone than to take that without any comment or using it as leverage.
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lysie
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UKDaysFan
Jun 21 2009, 01:46 PM
See, I just don't buy a word of her guilty ramblings. To me, she simply has no credibility in relation to what she's saying and it goes in one ear and out the other. It's easy to sit on your own and lament about how bad you feel, but we all know she doesn't feel bad enough to actually remedy the situation. She can empathise with Sami's situation but she doesn't actually want to help her unless it doesn't impact her world. As the saying goes, talk is cheap.

The other annoyance I have with her is how she is continually trying to rewrite why she swapped babies. The primary reason was so that she had less chance of getting caught and not so that EJ could be close to his biological daughter. That's just BS.

Also, I was really surprised that she sat through EJ telling her that he'd loved Sami while he'd been married to her. The Nicole of the past would have had more backbone than to take that without any comment or using it as leverage.
You can feel bad about something and not try to remedy the situation. That doesn't mean that you don't feel bad, it just means that your guilt doesn't outweigh your desire not to get caught.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

UKDaysFan
Jun 21 2009, 01:46 PM
Nicole Dimera
Jun 19 2009, 11:15 AM
She may not tell the truth but at least she feels something not only for Grace but for Sami as well. She feels it and that tells me that deep down somewhere there's some goodness down in that scheming heart of hers and that is what the writers are showing.
See, I just don't buy a word of her guilty ramblings. To me, she simply has no credibility in relation to what she's saying and it goes in one ear and out the other. It's easy to sit on your own and lament about how bad you feel, but we all know she doesn't feel bad enough to actually remedy the situation. She can empathise with Sami's situation but she doesn't actually want to help her unless it doesn't impact her world. As the saying goes, talk is cheap.

The other annoyance I have with her is how she is continually trying to rewrite why she swapped babies. The primary reason was so that she had less chance of getting caught and not so that EJ could be close to his biological daughter. That's just BS.

Also, I was really surprised that she sat through EJ telling her that he'd loved Sami while he'd been married to her. The Nicole of the past would have had more backbone than to take that without any comment or using it as leverage.
Great post! I agree with every word.
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UKDaysFan
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lysie
Jun 21 2009, 06:00 PM
UKDaysFan
Jun 21 2009, 01:46 PM
See, I just don't buy a word of her guilty ramblings. To me, she simply has no credibility in relation to what she's saying and it goes in one ear and out the other. It's easy to sit on your own and lament about how bad you feel, but we all know she doesn't feel bad enough to actually remedy the situation. She can empathise with Sami's situation but she doesn't actually want to help her unless it doesn't impact her world. As the saying goes, talk is cheap.

The other annoyance I have with her is how she is continually trying to rewrite why she swapped babies. The primary reason was so that she had less chance of getting caught and not so that EJ could be close to his biological daughter. That's just BS.

Also, I was really surprised that she sat through EJ telling her that he'd loved Sami while he'd been married to her. The Nicole of the past would have had more backbone than to take that without any comment or using it as leverage.
You can feel bad about something and not try to remedy the situation. That doesn't mean that you don't feel bad, it just means that your guilt doesn't outweigh your desire not to get caught.
I don't think she feels guilty. To feel guilt is to feel remorse or self-reproach, caused by a feeling that you have done something wrong. Nicole does not believe she did the wrong thing. As far as she's concerned, what she did is the best thing for her, Sydney and EJ.

She feels sad about some of the events that have happened to the people involved in the switch, but I don't believe she's expressed any remorse. Didn't she tell Brady she'd do it all over again? Actually, as did Sami, and I don't think many/any would say she's feeling guilty at the moment about lying about Grace's parentage.
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lysie
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UKDaysFan
Jun 21 2009, 08:44 PM
lysie
Jun 21 2009, 06:00 PM
UKDaysFan
Jun 21 2009, 01:46 PM
See, I just don't buy a word of her guilty ramblings. To me, she simply has no credibility in relation to what she's saying and it goes in one ear and out the other. It's easy to sit on your own and lament about how bad you feel, but we all know she doesn't feel bad enough to actually remedy the situation. She can empathise with Sami's situation but she doesn't actually want to help her unless it doesn't impact her world. As the saying goes, talk is cheap.

The other annoyance I have with her is how she is continually trying to rewrite why she swapped babies. The primary reason was so that she had less chance of getting caught and not so that EJ could be close to his biological daughter. That's just BS.

Also, I was really surprised that she sat through EJ telling her that he'd loved Sami while he'd been married to her. The Nicole of the past would have had more backbone than to take that without any comment or using it as leverage.
You can feel bad about something and not try to remedy the situation. That doesn't mean that you don't feel bad, it just means that your guilt doesn't outweigh your desire not to get caught.
I don't think she feels guilty. To feel guilt is to feel remorse or self-reproach, caused by a feeling that you have done something wrong. Nicole does not believe she did the wrong thing. As far as she's concerned, what she did is the best thing for her, Sydney and EJ.

She feels sad about some of the events that have happened to the people involved in the switch, but I don't believe she's expressed any remorse. Didn't she tell Brady she'd do it all over again? Actually, as did Sami, and I don't think many/any would say she's feeling guilty at the moment about lying about Grace's parentage.
I think she feels that it was wrong for them but right for her and the right for her outweighs the wrong for them. Basically, she feels guilty about what she had to do, but it was worth it for what she thinks she's going to achieve, which is she (and Sami, too) would both do it over again. I think they've both felt different levels of guilt all along.
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