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DAYS: Weekly Discussion; Week of 8/17 - 8/21
Topic Started: Aug 17 2009, 10:51 AM (4,683 Views)
DrewHamilton
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I agree, esp. This would have been a great storyline for Steve and Kayla.
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DrewHamilton
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And I would love for the writers to dive back into the Princess Gina pool. Loved that storyline!
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darraholic
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I'm okay with a possible Bope breakup. I'd actually would love to see a Lawrence/Hope pairing instead of a predictable Bo/Carly pairing.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

jane1978
Aug 18 2009, 11:20 AM
Paxton
Aug 18 2009, 09:39 AM
jane1978
Aug 18 2009, 09:22 AM
Anyway, if anyone will ever ask again why were Tanna, Jarlena, Stayla, Jannifer etc. let go, this thread is the answer. This is the first story Bope have after almost a year and people are already complaining. Thanks god the show has only one supercouple anymore.

I hardly think a handful of opinions on one message board is "the answer" to anything. As for people complaining, name a story that people don't complain about--it's not hard to find people complaining here or elsewhere about the baby switch, the Philip/Stephanie/Nathan/Melanie quad, and/or the Danloe/Kate poisoning drama. The fact that these writers can't think of anything to do with Bo and Hope that isn't a repeat of things they've been through before doesn't necessarily mean a better writing team couldn't. I'm not even a particular fan of any of those that you mentioned, but I see this as a writing problem, not a "these couples are played out no matter what they do with them" problem.
I quess Iīm just sad because I like the show and I want it to continue and seeing so many people being unhappy even when the vets are on frontburner and just a few episodes after the story started is a sign it probably really run its course. (like all the soaps). Because I honestly donīt see any original or new story still available for Bope or any other vets and Iīm afraid we will see exact the same reaction with Vivian and Carly. Years ago the show atleast could do those amazing romantic adventures. Now there are no money for additional sets, additional extras and added working hours, so the writers have to tell story only by using the 6+ permanent sets we see each day. The only thing you can really focus on are relationships, so anything happens will eventually result into a relationship conflict. But if people donīt want to see that, there is really not much left to tell.
I agree, Jane.

Although I wouldn't take this as a sign the show has run it's course, especially since many are enjoying the show right now. It just so happens this board has many who aren't or many who take issue with some things. The issue, perhaps, is that maybe Bo and Hope have run their course. That is the one thing I think Days has finally grasped. I think they realize at some point you have to move on or move the vets to supporting roles and focus on others. I mean, why else do you bring on young characters over the years? Characters like Sami, EJ, Belle, Shawn, Philip, Stephanie, etc...why do we bother to bring them on if at some point they won't become frontburner players? Granted, most of these characters became frontburner even with the vets around but it's not the same as being left to carry a show, which is what is the case now with J&M and S&K gone and with Bo and Hope being mostly supporting until now. Days did it in the 80's, It brought on a slew of characters who ended up becoming the end all to be all for Days for over twenty years. At some point, you just have to move on or else you have Bo and Hope chasing after criminals using walkers and canes. It's up to the show went it's time to cut the chord. They already did with two couples because they couldn't find anything to do with them. Was their things that COULD'VE been done with them? Sure. However, would those things have worked under the current conditions (budget, sets, etc)? What kind of stories would these couple's fanbases or Days' core fans accept? There is also the critical issue and the big reason why I think the show realized it could move on...the ratings.

Over the last few years of trying to bring back the feel of the past with the big 3 supercouples, the ratings did not respond. Sure, the quality wasn't always there and stories were dropped and such but big payoff moments (J&J's farewell, John's return, Steve and Kayla reunion, etc) didn't even make that huge of an impact. I think Corday actually had a point when he said "that was then, this is now." I believe wholeheartedly the bulk of Days' audience that more or less counts in the ratings (and who I believe also watch no matter what) and the "swing fans" (Fans who watch here and there or fans who "soap hop") only worry about being entertained. It doesn't matter who is in story. I think that may be the case for other soaps too but I think Days has lost most of the audience that once cared about who was on the frontburner or still with the show and they realize that, which is why they finally cut J&M and S&K. I think they would've kept one of them but felt it was easier this way to commit to a new direction and not have to worry about their fanbases pushing for more airtime for whichever one was kept since if one couple was kept, there is no way that couple would've received much airtime based on the direction of the show.

The thing that saved Bo and Hope in my mind is that they are a blend of the show's two core families, the Brady's and Horton's. Plus, no offense intended to other fanbases since this is just a general observation but their fans don't seem as rabid or aggressive. I'm sure they are vocal but I have never seen some of the kind of things with Bope fans that I have with others. Then again, I didn't see it much with Steve and Kayla fans either. Nonetheless, Corday likes Bo and Hope and their portrayers so that was key. I don't think for a minute there was any intention of doing much with them beyond them being cops or the next "Tom and Alice." I think while they were pleased with the ratings, they felt they needed to produce better results to ensure the show's future and Bo and Hope is all they had left to turn to in order to make that kind of impact. They then went and wrote in some big returns (one of which is a popular actress from a cancelled show that they hope will bring over some fans like Martsolf and Gering did and one of which was a popular staple of the 90's on the show) , hoping it would bring in more audience since it is unlikely Bo and Hope on their own will. It's a smart plan, especially bring Lindsey Hartley to the mix because she has her fans too. For years, the show brought back people but there was no plan and the people they brought back never seemed to do much for the ratings. Now, we have the show bringing on popular stars from other shows and we've seen it work in at least helping to stabilize ratings (Gering and Martsolf).

Not everyone will be happy with everything. Even the best shows, films, etc have their detractors. The good thing is Days has stopped worrying about trying to please everyone and is simply trying to tell good stories and hope that is enough. That is the way to go and other soaps should follow suit. The recipe has always been that the show has to do what's best for it, whatever that may be. You may lose some fans here and there but, if you do things right and really sell fans on the story, you will do just fine and even bring in new fans. It happened in the 80's and in the 90's. It just never happened in this decade because soaps never seemed to commit. They just ran around like chickens with their heads cut off. You have to take risks. You have to make difficult choices and, at times, be revolutionary. Soaps will always have their cliches and repetitive stories and plot lines. They just need to put new spins on them, in any way possible.

I really don't see anyone in this thread automatically condemning the Bo and Hope story. I, too, was shocked by how far they went with Ciara but she was clearly fine with it. It reminded me of what they did with the actress playing Claire last year. That girl went through alot (kidnapping, shootout, plane crash) and you could tell she was just fine. I remember there was an article with MM in SOW saying that they explained everything to the little girl and she was fin and the parents were fine too since the child was an actress. Same goes here. I'm sure the same thing happened because Ciara doesn't seem the least bit uncomfortable and you could tell the rope was not tight nor was the blindfold an issue. Once I saw that she was ok, I was fine with the scene. It was creepy and intense.

I also think the reason they keep going back to Bo and Hope's children for story is because it makes the most sense. What else can cause problems for them? One of them isn't going to run off and have an affair. Sure, kidnapping has been done with Bo and Hope but it's only been done once with their children and that was with Shawn in 1998. This is different in that it sort of ties in with their roles on the police force and with something Hope did (donation). It's actually a more realistic and relatable story and I've always wished they would play something like this because being cops you make enemies over the years. Sometimes a criminal gets out on bail and wants revenge. Sometimes a nutjob just wants to torture a cop. There was always ample story to tell there but the writers always opted for the Dimera card, which is not the case this time and that is refreshing IMO.

The only issue I have with the story thus far is the whole argument over the damn teddy bear. The teddy bear crap always bugged me because why does it matter? Because it was in the vision? They worried more about hiding the damn bear then Ciara. Why not take more precautions with her like sending her with Abe and Lexie and not some woman with 5 kid already to watch? I can buy Bo and Hope making mistakes because that is reasonable but all the focus on that damn bear, especially yesterday, was ridiculous. I was fine with everything else and think I will enjoy this providing the visions stuff is kept to a minimum and used only when necessary.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

esp13
Aug 18 2009, 11:25 AM
I don't think it's that people don't want to see relationship conflict. The problem is that Bo and Hope had this exact same conflict just a couple of years ago with Zach. I think this storyline (or something similar) could have worked for Steve and Kayla because it wouldn't have been something we just saw a couple of years ago. It would have been a new conflict for them to deal with. I think there are ways to give Bo and Hope conflict, it just needed to be something new. What if someone/something had come back from Hope's days as Princess Gina? There are about a thousand ways to play that without it being an interloper or putting their kids in direct danger.
How was this played with Zack a few years ago? Zack died.

I actually think what happened with Zack is what is making this story so intense. Knowing Bo and Hope lost a child a mere few years ago makes this all the more gut-wrenching. There is more suspense and focusing on a child being in danger on this show then an adult since the show never seems to ever kill off any of the adults. I know that sounds morbid but it's true. I've actually sat with people watching Days who've been indifferent to Bo, Hope, etc being in dangerous situations because you know they won't die or have anything happen to them.

I do agree there are other things that could've been done. However, I think that can be said with any story. This is just the beginning. For all we know, this does somehow tie in with Princess Gina or something else. We still don't know why Dean is doing this. To me, it's no way just about money. That is what is so intriguing about it.

For those saying this would work with Steve and Kayla, it's been done with them too. Stephanie was kidnapped in the 80's. Joe nearly died last year and was later kidnapped by Stefano for a time. It's been done with pretty much every child. It's like the ultimate soap kid rite of passage on any soap. You must be kidnapped at least once as a child LOL.
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esp13
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The basic conflict between Bo and Hope that seems to be building is the same conflict they had over Zach. It's not that the Zach storyline was exactly the same, it's that the conflict is (i.e. the blame and guilty and recriminations). That's my point.

And yes, Stephanie was kidnapped 19 years ago. But, a lot of viewers would not be familiar with that story. Plus, there was no conflict for Steve and Kayla in that story. They were together and focused on finding their daughter. This type of kidnapping and the type of conflict they are giving Bo and Hope would have been a new type of conflict for Steve and Kayla.

And, to make this perfectly clear, I'm not saying that they should have kept Steve and Kayla and fired Bope or something. All I was trying to do was make the point that it's not the storyline per se that is the problem, it's the way it is used with a particular couple.
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luvpumpkns
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it was played out with zach a few years ago...not when he died, but back when they all learned zach was really bope's kid, and lexie kidnapped him. then zach died, and now they have another kid that's been kidnapped. i guess when it comes down right to it, no matter how you write for bo and hope, all stories lead to the same place for them, i.e., conflict, break-up, sex/relationship with another person, resolution, happily ever after. then rinse and repeat. that for me, is my problem with supercouples. after a while, this stuff has been done so often that it gets old, especially when we all know days isn't y&r and that bo and hope will eventually make up.

the funny thing about the s&k mention is that they did kind of try to do this s/l with them, joe and stefano, and it was totally dropped, but i'm not sure why. all i remember is that stefano took joe for a little while and he came back with a mysterious mark on his arm.

like you said phoenix, i also hate that so much of this storyline has been centered around creating angst over that stupid bear. it just bugs me that these two seem to actually believe that keeping that bear safe and protected equals keeping ciara safe and protected. i can buy that two grieving, worried, and shocked parents would throw blame around, but bo and hope have been there and done that a thousand times by this point. you'd think they'd have learned their lesson by now.
Edited by luvpumpkns, Aug 18 2009, 12:50 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

esp13
Aug 18 2009, 12:34 PM
The basic conflict between Bo and Hope that seems to be building is the same conflict they had over Zach. It's not that the Zach storyline was exactly the same, it's that the conflict is (i.e. the blame and guilty and recriminations). That's my point.

And yes, Stephanie was kidnapped 19 years ago. But, a lot of viewers would not be familiar with that story. Plus, there was no conflict for Steve and Kayla in that story. They were together and focused on finding their daughter. This type of kidnapping and the type of conflict they are giving Bo and Hope would have been a new type of conflict for Steve and Kayla.

And, to make this perfectly clear, I'm not saying that they should have kept Steve and Kayla and fired Bope or something. All I was trying to do was make the point that it's not the storyline per se that is the problem, it's the way it is used with a particular couple.
Ok. I see your point. However, I think no matter what they did with Bo and Hope, you would get the same conflict, at least eventually. What else is there? I think that is why the show had basically made them supporting players. They kept the couple they liked the most, just to avoid the notion they were cutting all ties. Then they opted to try to ensure the show's future by using them, hoping their story and the returns will help in some way.

They could go the adventure route but without a conflict, the story is over in 2 months tops. That is the problem I had with the Steve and Kayla story in the 80's. It was nice having them work together and all but there was very little repercussions after that. There either needs to be a conflict or you need to be building up to a bigger purpose somehow. Otherwise, it's nothing but a nice little adventure that may please some fans but does nothing for the show in the long run.

Also, just to clarify, I didn't think you were suggesting Steve and Kayla should stay and Bo and Hope should go. As for the Zack conflict, that was never played up nearly enough. The show completely lost sight of it when it changed the story into another go round of Billie/Bo/Hope. I'm all for actually revisiting this conflict and going about the story right for the duration of it and not just the first two months or so. I mean, Bo and Hope never really got proper resolution to that Zack story either. A few talks here and there and then she had Ciara and they moved on. As I said, this story is made more emotional and intense IMO due to what happened to Zack and the consequences of it. Having just finished watching Tuesday's episode, the ending, in particular, displays this. The kidnappers actually use what happened to Zack to manipulate Hope to do what they want. Bo even mentions to Hope that he doesn't want the blame and guilt to come between them this time like last time. The story is actually using history and forcing Bo and Hope to confront their past as well as the other issues involved.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

luvpumpkns
Aug 18 2009, 12:46 PM
it was played out with zach a few years ago...not when he died, but back when they all learned zach was really bope's kid, and lexie kidnapped him. then zach died, and now they have another kid that's been kidnapped. i guess when it comes down right to it, no matter how you write for bo and hope, all stories lead to the same place for them, i.e., conflict, break-up, sex/relationship with another person, resolution, happily ever after. then rinse and repeat. that for me, is my problem with supercouples. after a while, this stuff has been done so often that it gets old, especially when we all know days isn't y&r and that bo and hope will eventually make up.
You said it all right there.

I think Days is trying to change that though. Not with Bo and Hope but the other couples. That is another reason why I think they got rid of who they did. With those they have left, they will create the sense that they will break couples up. That characters will move on to others. That is how the real world works and soaps do need to reflect that. Things do need to be relatable. You can have some elements of fantasy romance and escapism but there needs to be realism too or else the same sort of impact is not there.
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lysie
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Why have "the vets" run their course and Sami hasn't? She is not new and hasn't done anything new since 1997. I don't understand why she was in that list of characters making their way up. She's been on longer than most of the vets.
Edited by lysie, Aug 18 2009, 01:12 PM.
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Paxton
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Dreaming of a Melanie-free Days

PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 12:08 PM
Although I wouldn't take this as a sign the show has run it's course, especially since many are enjoying the show right now. It just so happens this board has many who aren't or many who take issue with some things. The issue, perhaps, is that maybe Bo and Hope have run their course. That is the one thing I think Days has finally grasped. I think they realize at some point you have to move on or move the vets to supporting roles and focus on others. I mean, why else do you bring on young characters over the years? Characters like Sami, EJ, Belle, Shawn, Philip, Stephanie, etc...why do we bother to bring them on if at some point they won't become frontburner players? Granted, most of these characters became frontburner even with the vets around but it's not the same as being left to carry a show, which is what is the case now with J&M and S&K gone and with Bo and Hope being mostly supporting until now. Days did it in the 80's, It brought on a slew of characters who ended up becoming the end all to be all for Days for over twenty years. At some point, you just have to move on or else you have Bo and Hope chasing after criminals using walkers and canes. It's up to the show went it's time to cut the chord. They already did with two couples because they couldn't find anything to do with them. Was their things that COULD'VE been done with them? Sure. However, would those things have worked under the current conditions (budget, sets, etc)? What kind of stories would these couple's fanbases or Days' core fans accept? There is also the critical issue and the big reason why I think the show realized it could move on...the ratings.

Look, I don't have an issue with younger characters earning and moving up to their front-burner screen time. My problem with what you're saying is that there's an unproven-to-me assumption that the supercouple fanbases will only accept romantic adventure stories. How do we know that? Sure, there would be some people who threaten to quit watching and who in fact would, but so what? That happened when the veterans got fired too. If they were willing to make the tough decision of firing those veteran actors, why weren't they willing to make the tough decision of shifting them to "B" story status and seeing whether people would accept/enjoy storylines where the supercouples were not front and center.

Not being a supercouple fan myself (I like them, just not a hardcore fan), I don't really know, so I'll throw this question out there for discussion: for those of you who are supercouple fans, would you still be watching if your favorites were still on but were not featured in the "A" stories? If they were not in romance/adventure stories? What if the supercouples' new stories focused around their work lives (yes, I know sets are limited, but Marlena at least could work in the hospital, and obviously so could/did Kayla); their children/grandchildren; medical stories (alcoholism, cancer, etc.) and how the spouses deal with it; or other stories of that nature? Would you rather see them in that capacity or not at all if they aren't going to be getting similar storylines to what they had in the 1980s, 1990s and/or early 2000s?

As for the current storyline with Bo and Hope and Ciara, I don't care for children-in-peril stories, and I agree the argument about the bear is ridiculous. But I don't think this means that there is NO new or fresh story for Bo and Hope.
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lysie
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Paxton
Aug 18 2009, 01:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 12:08 PM
Although I wouldn't take this as a sign the show has run it's course, especially since many are enjoying the show right now. It just so happens this board has many who aren't or many who take issue with some things. The issue, perhaps, is that maybe Bo and Hope have run their course. That is the one thing I think Days has finally grasped. I think they realize at some point you have to move on or move the vets to supporting roles and focus on others. I mean, why else do you bring on young characters over the years? Characters like Sami, EJ, Belle, Shawn, Philip, Stephanie, etc...why do we bother to bring them on if at some point they won't become frontburner players? Granted, most of these characters became frontburner even with the vets around but it's not the same as being left to carry a show, which is what is the case now with J&M and S&K gone and with Bo and Hope being mostly supporting until now. Days did it in the 80's, It brought on a slew of characters who ended up becoming the end all to be all for Days for over twenty years. At some point, you just have to move on or else you have Bo and Hope chasing after criminals using walkers and canes. It's up to the show went it's time to cut the chord. They already did with two couples because they couldn't find anything to do with them. Was their things that COULD'VE been done with them? Sure. However, would those things have worked under the current conditions (budget, sets, etc)? What kind of stories would these couple's fanbases or Days' core fans accept? There is also the critical issue and the big reason why I think the show realized it could move on...the ratings.

Look, I don't have an issue with younger characters earning and moving up to their front-burner screen time. My problem with what you're saying is that there's an unproven-to-me assumption that the supercouple fanbases will only accept romantic adventure stories. How do we know that? Sure, there would be some people who threaten to quit watching and who in fact would, but so what? That happened when the veterans got fired too. If they were willing to make the tough decision of firing those veteran actors, why weren't they willing to make the tough decision of shifting them to "B" story status and seeing whether people would accept/enjoy storylines where the supercouples were not front and center.

Not being a supercouple fan myself (I like them, just not a hardcore fan), I don't really know, so I'll throw this question out there for discussion: for those of you who are supercouple fans, would you still be watching if your favorites were still on but were not featured in the "A" stories? If they were not in romance/adventure stories? What if the supercouples' new stories focused around their work lives (yes, I know sets are limited, but Marlena at least could work in the hospital, and obviously so could/did Kayla); their children/grandchildren; medical stories (alcoholism, cancer, etc.) and how the spouses deal with it; or other stories of that nature? Would you rather see them in that capacity or not at all if they aren't going to be getting similar storylines to what they had in the 1980s, 1990s and/or early 2000s?

As for the current storyline with Bo and Hope and Ciara, I don't care for children-in-peril stories, and I agree the argument about the bear is ridiculous. But I don't think this means that there is NO new or fresh story for Bo and Hope.
I would. They should be there for their children and involved in some way in what goes on in their children's lives. They may not be playing the biggest part, but that's a natural progression.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Paxton
Aug 18 2009, 01:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 12:08 PM
Although I wouldn't take this as a sign the show has run it's course, especially since many are enjoying the show right now. It just so happens this board has many who aren't or many who take issue with some things. The issue, perhaps, is that maybe Bo and Hope have run their course. That is the one thing I think Days has finally grasped. I think they realize at some point you have to move on or move the vets to supporting roles and focus on others. I mean, why else do you bring on young characters over the years? Characters like Sami, EJ, Belle, Shawn, Philip, Stephanie, etc...why do we bother to bring them on if at some point they won't become frontburner players? Granted, most of these characters became frontburner even with the vets around but it's not the same as being left to carry a show, which is what is the case now with J&M and S&K gone and with Bo and Hope being mostly supporting until now. Days did it in the 80's, It brought on a slew of characters who ended up becoming the end all to be all for Days for over twenty years. At some point, you just have to move on or else you have Bo and Hope chasing after criminals using walkers and canes. It's up to the show went it's time to cut the chord. They already did with two couples because they couldn't find anything to do with them. Was their things that COULD'VE been done with them? Sure. However, would those things have worked under the current conditions (budget, sets, etc)? What kind of stories would these couple's fanbases or Days' core fans accept? There is also the critical issue and the big reason why I think the show realized it could move on...the ratings.

Look, I don't have an issue with younger characters earning and moving up to their front-burner screen time. My problem with what you're saying is that there's an unproven-to-me assumption that the supercouple fanbases will only accept romantic adventure stories. How do we know that? Sure, there would be some people who threaten to quit watching and who in fact would, but so what? That happened when the veterans got fired too. If they were willing to make the tough decision of firing those veteran actors, why weren't they willing to make the tough decision of shifting them to "B" story status and seeing whether people would accept/enjoy storylines where the supercouples were not front and center.

Not being a supercouple fan myself (I like them, just not a hardcore fan), I don't really know, so I'll throw this question out there for discussion: for those of you who are supercouple fans, would you still be watching if your favorites were still on but were not featured in the "A" stories? If they were not in romance/adventure stories? What if the supercouples' new stories focused around their work lives (yes, I know sets are limited, but Marlena at least could work in the hospital, and obviously so could/did Kayla); their children/grandchildren; medical stories (alcoholism, cancer, etc.) and how the spouses deal with it; or other stories of that nature? Would you rather see them in that capacity or not at all if they aren't going to be getting similar storylines to what they had in the 1980s, 1990s and/or early 2000s?

As for the current storyline with Bo and Hope and Ciara, I don't care for children-in-peril stories, and I agree the argument about the bear is ridiculous. But I don't think this means that there is NO new or fresh story for Bo and Hope.
How do we know? Just look at the reactions around the net, in the mags, by the ratings. I know one should not use message boards to analyze what is working but when it comes to the supercouples, you can because there are so many sites full of groups of people. Some sites have rabid fans and some have sensible fans. Some are in between. All I kept seeing for years now is post after post about how couple A needed a good adventure story or mystery. Just look at how so many supercouple fans idolize...SHERI ANDERSON!! She was the queen of that kind of stuff. You could also look at reactions to other stories. These fans have been very honest about hating medical crisis stories because it isn't happy enough. Everytime a supercouple has an argument, you would see fans bash the hell out of the show. There was a huge portion of the audience that was fickle as hell, wanting all fluff. They are gone now and I think the show is happy as hell about it. I know I would be. Enough was enough.

The show tried to move the vets to supporting roles. Remember the experiment in 2007? Corday even called it an experiment. It bombed. The supercouples were supporting the whole year. With the exception of 2004, 2005, and half of 2006, J&M had become supporting basically since 2001. They were even written off for two months in 2006. Bo and Hope was really the only couple that remained lead consistently with the occasionally lull here and there until 2007 when they were backburnered too. The show got blasted and during all this they lost most of their fans, which is why now we are left with an audience who could care less who is on all the time. You are left with an audience that will watch as long as they are entertained. That is why the ratings never bombed out when J&M and S&K left earlier this year. Most of their fans that counted in the ratings already left.

The sort of question I've always asked in discussions like this is this...considering the way things are with Days...what kind of story can be told with Bo and Hope that isn't a repeat, that will actually interest current fans and bring in new and casual fans, that can be done given Days' budget and set limitations, and that can help the show in the long run? I always ask this in debates like this because it's not easy to come up with something. I'm sure someone will but we all don't think alike nor do we all have the same specific vision for the show. I always say think of it from the TPTB's perspective too. Normally, I never get an answer to a question like this but I always ask because I'm interested in seeing the responses given how some think there is still new and fresh things that can be done with Bo and Hope that can help the show.

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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

lysie
Aug 18 2009, 01:20 PM
Paxton
Aug 18 2009, 01:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 12:08 PM
Although I wouldn't take this as a sign the show has run it's course, especially since many are enjoying the show right now. It just so happens this board has many who aren't or many who take issue with some things. The issue, perhaps, is that maybe Bo and Hope have run their course. That is the one thing I think Days has finally grasped. I think they realize at some point you have to move on or move the vets to supporting roles and focus on others. I mean, why else do you bring on young characters over the years? Characters like Sami, EJ, Belle, Shawn, Philip, Stephanie, etc...why do we bother to bring them on if at some point they won't become frontburner players? Granted, most of these characters became frontburner even with the vets around but it's not the same as being left to carry a show, which is what is the case now with J&M and S&K gone and with Bo and Hope being mostly supporting until now. Days did it in the 80's, It brought on a slew of characters who ended up becoming the end all to be all for Days for over twenty years. At some point, you just have to move on or else you have Bo and Hope chasing after criminals using walkers and canes. It's up to the show went it's time to cut the chord. They already did with two couples because they couldn't find anything to do with them. Was their things that COULD'VE been done with them? Sure. However, would those things have worked under the current conditions (budget, sets, etc)? What kind of stories would these couple's fanbases or Days' core fans accept? There is also the critical issue and the big reason why I think the show realized it could move on...the ratings.

Look, I don't have an issue with younger characters earning and moving up to their front-burner screen time. My problem with what you're saying is that there's an unproven-to-me assumption that the supercouple fanbases will only accept romantic adventure stories. How do we know that? Sure, there would be some people who threaten to quit watching and who in fact would, but so what? That happened when the veterans got fired too. If they were willing to make the tough decision of firing those veteran actors, why weren't they willing to make the tough decision of shifting them to "B" story status and seeing whether people would accept/enjoy storylines where the supercouples were not front and center.

Not being a supercouple fan myself (I like them, just not a hardcore fan), I don't really know, so I'll throw this question out there for discussion: for those of you who are supercouple fans, would you still be watching if your favorites were still on but were not featured in the "A" stories? If they were not in romance/adventure stories? What if the supercouples' new stories focused around their work lives (yes, I know sets are limited, but Marlena at least could work in the hospital, and obviously so could/did Kayla); their children/grandchildren; medical stories (alcoholism, cancer, etc.) and how the spouses deal with it; or other stories of that nature? Would you rather see them in that capacity or not at all if they aren't going to be getting similar storylines to what they had in the 1980s, 1990s and/or early 2000s?

As for the current storyline with Bo and Hope and Ciara, I don't care for children-in-peril stories, and I agree the argument about the bear is ridiculous. But I don't think this means that there is NO new or fresh story for Bo and Hope.
I would. They should be there for their children and involved in some way in what goes on in their children's lives. They may not be playing the biggest part, but that's a natural progression.
Well, then you one of the few IMO because one of the biggest complaints of the last few years was how they were being used to prop (I hate that term) up Sami, Belle, Shawn, Philip, etc. My issue with those complaints always was that it was ok when Maggie, Mickey, Alice, Doug, Julie, etc propped up Bo, Hope, Steve, Kayla, John, Marlena, etc but when it came time for the younger characters to get a push, there was outrage. It always seemed hypocritical to me.

The other thing too is the show did not have the luxury of paying the money to keep too many people around in supporting roles. I know many will point to all the casting additions of late and cry foul about the money argument but CC had taken many pay cuts. Her contract is probably pretty cheap. Louise Sorel has not been working. She probably came cheap. Sabatino will come cheap. The show doesn't have to worry about paying off JER anymore. It cut alot of salary due to firings of cast and crew, pay cuts, etc. They are more efficient with sets. They adjusted taping to save money. Ratings were solid for awhile so they made money off that. The financial situation is better now but it's still not fantastic. It's workable.
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lysie
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PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 01:25 PM
Paxton
Aug 18 2009, 01:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 12:08 PM
Although I wouldn't take this as a sign the show has run it's course, especially since many are enjoying the show right now. It just so happens this board has many who aren't or many who take issue with some things. The issue, perhaps, is that maybe Bo and Hope have run their course. That is the one thing I think Days has finally grasped. I think they realize at some point you have to move on or move the vets to supporting roles and focus on others. I mean, why else do you bring on young characters over the years? Characters like Sami, EJ, Belle, Shawn, Philip, Stephanie, etc...why do we bother to bring them on if at some point they won't become frontburner players? Granted, most of these characters became frontburner even with the vets around but it's not the same as being left to carry a show, which is what is the case now with J&M and S&K gone and with Bo and Hope being mostly supporting until now. Days did it in the 80's, It brought on a slew of characters who ended up becoming the end all to be all for Days for over twenty years. At some point, you just have to move on or else you have Bo and Hope chasing after criminals using walkers and canes. It's up to the show went it's time to cut the chord. They already did with two couples because they couldn't find anything to do with them. Was their things that COULD'VE been done with them? Sure. However, would those things have worked under the current conditions (budget, sets, etc)? What kind of stories would these couple's fanbases or Days' core fans accept? There is also the critical issue and the big reason why I think the show realized it could move on...the ratings.

Look, I don't have an issue with younger characters earning and moving up to their front-burner screen time. My problem with what you're saying is that there's an unproven-to-me assumption that the supercouple fanbases will only accept romantic adventure stories. How do we know that? Sure, there would be some people who threaten to quit watching and who in fact would, but so what? That happened when the veterans got fired too. If they were willing to make the tough decision of firing those veteran actors, why weren't they willing to make the tough decision of shifting them to "B" story status and seeing whether people would accept/enjoy storylines where the supercouples were not front and center.

Not being a supercouple fan myself (I like them, just not a hardcore fan), I don't really know, so I'll throw this question out there for discussion: for those of you who are supercouple fans, would you still be watching if your favorites were still on but were not featured in the "A" stories? If they were not in romance/adventure stories? What if the supercouples' new stories focused around their work lives (yes, I know sets are limited, but Marlena at least could work in the hospital, and obviously so could/did Kayla); their children/grandchildren; medical stories (alcoholism, cancer, etc.) and how the spouses deal with it; or other stories of that nature? Would you rather see them in that capacity or not at all if they aren't going to be getting similar storylines to what they had in the 1980s, 1990s and/or early 2000s?

As for the current storyline with Bo and Hope and Ciara, I don't care for children-in-peril stories, and I agree the argument about the bear is ridiculous. But I don't think this means that there is NO new or fresh story for Bo and Hope.
How do we know? Just look at the reactions around the net, in the mags, by the ratings. I know one should not use message boards to analyze what is working but when it comes to the supercouples, you can because there are so many sites full of groups of people. Some sites have rabid fans and some have sensible fans. Some are in between. All I kept seeing for years now is post after post about how couple A needed a good adventure story or mystery. Just look at how so many supercouple fans idolize...SHERI ANDERSON!! She was the queen of that kind of stuff. You could also look at reactions to other stories. These fans have been very honest about hating medical crisis stories because it isn't happy enough. Everytime a supercouple has an argument, you would see fans bash the hell out of the show. There was a huge portion of the audience that was fickle as hell, wanting all fluff. They are gone now and I think the show is happy as hell about it. I know I would be. Enough was enough.

The show tried to move the vets to supporting roles. Remember the experiment in 2007? Corday even called it an experiment. It bombed. The supercouples were supporting the whole year. With the exception of 2004, 2005, and half of 2006, J&M had become supporting basically since 2001. They were even written off for two months in 2006. Bo and Hope was really the only couple that remained lead consistently with the occasionally lull here and there until 2007 when they were backburnered too. The show got blasted and during all this they lost most of their fans, which is why now we are left with an audience who could care less who is on all the time. You are left with an audience that will watch as long as they are entertained. That is why the ratings never bombed out when J&M and S&K left earlier this year. Most of their fans that counted in the ratings already left.

The sort of question I've always asked in discussions like this is this...considering the way things are with Days...what kind of story can be told with Bo and Hope that isn't a repeat, that will actually interest current fans and bring in new and casual fans, that can be done given Days' budget and set limitations, and that can help the show in the long run? I always ask this in debates like this because it's not easy to come up with something. I'm sure someone will but we all don't think alike nor do we all have the same specific vision for the show. I always say think of it from the TPTB's perspective too. Normally, I never get an answer to a question like this but I always ask because I'm interested in seeing the responses given how some think there is still new and fresh things that can be done with Bo and Hope that can help the show.

There's different kinds of supporting roles. If you want to call what the vets were doing in 2007 "supporting" that's definitely not going to fly. I wouldn't want that for any character, because it's pointless. Supporting characters can have some fluff and some conflict and support their children. Days hasn't been able to find that balance when using the vets as supporting players.

And I have to point again...if Sami can still be given stuff to do, the vets can. She has been on as long and longer as most of the vets.
Edited by lysie, Aug 18 2009, 01:35 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

lysie
Aug 18 2009, 01:33 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 01:25 PM
Paxton
Aug 18 2009, 01:10 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWhat kind of stories would these couple's fanbases or Days' core fans accept?
How do we know? Just look at the reactions around the net, in the mags, by the ratings. I know one should not use message boards to analyze what is working but when it comes to the supercouples, you can because there are so many sites full of groups of people. Some sites have rabid fans and some have sensible fans. Some are in between. All I kept seeing for years now is post after post about how couple A needed a good adventure story or mystery. Just look at how so many supercouple fans idolize...SHERI ANDERSON!! She was the queen of that kind of stuff. You could also look at reactions to other stories. These fans have been very honest about hating medical crisis stories because it isn't happy enough. Everytime a supercouple has an argument, you would see fans bash the hell out of the show. There was a huge portion of the audience that was fickle as hell, wanting all fluff. They are gone now and I think the show is happy as hell about it. I know I would be. Enough was enough.

The show tried to move the vets to supporting roles. Remember the experiment in 2007? Corday even called it an experiment. It bombed. The supercouples were supporting the whole year. With the exception of 2004, 2005, and half of 2006, J&M had become supporting basically since 2001. They were even written off for two months in 2006. Bo and Hope was really the only couple that remained lead consistently with the occasionally lull here and there until 2007 when they were backburnered too. The show got blasted and during all this they lost most of their fans, which is why now we are left with an audience who could care less who is on all the time. You are left with an audience that will watch as long as they are entertained. That is why the ratings never bombed out when J&M and S&K left earlier this year. Most of their fans that counted in the ratings already left.

The sort of question I've always asked in discussions like this is this...considering the way things are with Days...what kind of story can be told with Bo and Hope that isn't a repeat, that will actually interest current fans and bring in new and casual fans, that can be done given Days' budget and set limitations, and that can help the show in the long run? I always ask this in debates like this because it's not easy to come up with something. I'm sure someone will but we all don't think alike nor do we all have the same specific vision for the show. I always say think of it from the TPTB's perspective too. Normally, I never get an answer to a question like this but I always ask because I'm interested in seeing the responses given how some think there is still new and fresh things that can be done with Bo and Hope that can help the show.

There's different kinds of supporting roles. If you want to call what the vets were doing in 2007 "supporting" that's definitely not going to fly. I wouldn't want that for any character, because it's pointless. Supporting characters can have some fluff and some conflict and support their children. Days hasn't been able to find that balance when using the vets as supporting players.

And I have to point again...if Sami can still be given stuff to do, the vets can. She has been on as long and longer as most of the vets.
You make a strong point about 2007 but I wasn't really referring to that, even though that is an example of what a supporting player is. I was referring to Bo and Hope being involved in the Shelle story in Fall 2007 and J&M supporting Belle's story in the past.

As for Sami, Sami is different in that she was once a bad girl that has developed into something. She's never been part of a supercouple and the way the character is, you can do a number of things with her. The biggest issue with the supercouples is that the writers boxed themselves in and that led to the fans thinking of them as couples and not as characters. You always heard outcries for a Bo and Hope story or a John and Marlena story or whatever. Why not just a Steve story? Or a Marlena story? Or a Bo story? That became the biggest issue. The writers over the years created that problem and the fans, in turn, bought into it and could care less about individual stories because they wanted couple stories. Remember the days when Marlena had stories focused on her career? Those were the best because you could tie that story in with whatever was going on with John, Roman, etc. Let John support her in a story. Same goes for Bo and Hope. Give Bo a case that leads to some character development and let Hope support him in that. Maybe one of these individual stories can lead to a story for both members of the couple.

So, yes, there was more that can be done with those who left but with the "couple story" thinking is what made things difficult and why IMO the show could never make it work and why they felt the need to move on.
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Paxton
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Dreaming of a Melanie-free Days

PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 01:25 PM
The sort of question I've always asked in discussions like this is this...considering the way things are with Days...what kind of story can be told with Bo and Hope that isn't a repeat, that will actually interest current fans and bring in new and casual fans, that can be done given Days' budget and set limitations, and that can help the show in the long run? I always ask this in debates like this because it's not easy to come up with something. I'm sure someone will but we all don't think alike nor do we all have the same specific vision for the show. I always say think of it from the TPTB's perspective too. Normally, I never get an answer to a question like this but I always ask because I'm interested in seeing the responses given how some think there is still new and fresh things that can be done with Bo and Hope that can help the show.

And I'll turn the question around and ask, what kind of stories can be told for any character/couple that isn't (1) a repeat of a story the show has already done with them or someone else (2) that will interest current fans (3) that will bring in new and casual fans and (4) can be done with the current budget and set limitations? That's a tall order for any character or couple, frankly. As you yourself said, nobody will be pleased with every story. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, you can find people complaining about the baby switch, the Danloe story and the Philip/Melanie/Nathan/Stepanie quad (me, loudly, but not just me). It's not like the stories for everyone else are so delightfully fresh and original. We've seen baby switches before. We've seen quads before. We've seen affair storylines.

Quote:
 
The show tried to move the vets to supporting roles. Remember the experiment in 2007? Corday even called it an experiment. It bombed. The supercouples were supporting the whole year. With the exception of 2004, 2005, and half of 2006, J&M had become supporting basically since 2001. They were even written off for two months in 2006. Bo and Hope was really the only couple that remained lead consistently with the occasionally lull here and there until 2007 when they were backburnered too. The show got blasted and during all this they lost most of their fans, which is why now we are left with an audience who could care less who is on all the time. You are left with an audience that will watch as long as they are entertained. That is why the ratings never bombed out when J&M and S&K left earlier this year. Most of their fans that counted in the ratings already left.


Yes, I do remember 2007. I find it interesting that you mention the ratings not bombing when J & M and S & K left earlier this year. While I would agree we didn't see an immediate drop, I continue to see posts on other boards from people wondering where John and Marlena and Steve and Kayla are. I don't believe that every fan who liked them left in high dudgeon when those actors were fired. Furthermore, the ratings this summer have barely been better than last, despite the fact the stories are more focused and there isn't behind-the-scenes turmoil (or at least if there is, it isn't apparent like it was last year). What is your explanation for this summer's continually declining ratings?
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Rick
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Dreamlander

Well I watched DAYS episodes back to back for the first time in six months and I was actually interested. Maybe I just needed a break.
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lysie
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PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 01:45 PM
lysie
Aug 18 2009, 01:33 PM
PhoenixRising05
Aug 18 2009, 01:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWhat kind of stories would these couple's fanbases or Days' core fans accept?
There's different kinds of supporting roles. If you want to call what the vets were doing in 2007 "supporting" that's definitely not going to fly. I wouldn't want that for any character, because it's pointless. Supporting characters can have some fluff and some conflict and support their children. Days hasn't been able to find that balance when using the vets as supporting players.

And I have to point again...if Sami can still be given stuff to do, the vets can. She has been on as long and longer as most of the vets.
You make a strong point about 2007 but I wasn't really referring to that, even though that is an example of what a supporting player is. I was referring to Bo and Hope being involved in the Shelle story in Fall 2007 and J&M supporting Belle's story in the past.

As for Sami, Sami is different in that she was once a bad girl that has developed into something. She's never been part of a supercouple and the way the character is, you can do a number of things with her. The biggest issue with the supercouples is that the writers boxed themselves in and that led to the fans thinking of them as couples and not as characters. You always heard outcries for a Bo and Hope story or a John and Marlena story or whatever. Why not just a Steve story? Or a Marlena story? Or a Bo story? That became the biggest issue. The writers over the years created that problem and the fans, in turn, bought into it and could care less about individual stories because they wanted couple stories. Remember the days when Marlena had stories focused on her career? Those were the best because you could tie that story in with whatever was going on with John, Roman, etc. Let John support her in a story. Same goes for Bo and Hope. Give Bo a case that leads to some character development and let Hope support him in that. Maybe one of these individual stories can lead to a story for both members of the couple.

So, yes, there was more that can be done with those who left but with the "couple story" thinking is what made things difficult and why IMO the show could never make it work and why they felt the need to move on.
One half of a couple can still have a story, and the couples be showcased in some way. The other half of the couple can either support them or be in conflict with them. It's just not that difficult.
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luvpumpkns
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Paxton
Aug 18 2009, 01:46 PM
And I'll turn the question around and ask, what kind of stories can be told for any character/couple that isn't (1) a repeat of a story the show has already done with them or someone else (2) that will interest current fans (3) that will bring in new and casual fans and (4) can be done with the current budget and set limitations? That's a tall order for any character or couple, frankly. As you yourself said, nobody will be pleased with every story. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, you can find people complaining about the baby switch, the Danloe story and the Philip/Melanie/Nathan/Stepanie quad (me, loudly, but not just me). It's not like the stories for everyone else are so delightfully fresh and original. We've seen baby switches before. We've seen quads before. We've seen affair storylines.

i think i can answer that. i know for myself that i don't care for sami or her story, but i get why her quadangle with lucas, ej and rafe interests people. sami isn't boxed in as a couple. people just talk about sami. she could, at this point, believably end up with any one of these three guys, so at least her ongoing saga has some mystery about it all. doing a similar story with the supercouples doesn't work because they always end up back together. same thing with the phil/mel/steph/nathan quad. there's no set couple among these four, so the ending isn't as predictable.

i am guilty in the past of saying that supercouples are comforting for the very fact that they always end up back together, and you know it the whole time you're watching. but it's also limiting, and i find myself frustrated when i see bo and hope tossign blame around just like they do every other time something bad happens.
Edited by luvpumpkns, Aug 18 2009, 02:01 PM.
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