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Spoilers for wk of December 14th; *UPDATED 12/12*
Topic Started: Dec 2 2009, 01:21 PM (29,583 Views)
PhoenixRising05
Member Avatar


Alligato
Dec 12 2009, 10:08 PM
Why Mer?
It is perfect for EJ! This makes sense as he was duped and now he is a duper!
This is stuff of oldEJ who was one step ahead of everyone! I was a big fan of oldEJ!
And he is not under his daddy's spell anymore, so this shows who he really is.
Exactly.

If he is involved, this is something the character of EJ NEEDS. After the last few years, he's lost what made him great in the first place. I think JS knows that and I think the show knows that. Corday kept mentioning how EJ had been lied to multiple times and I think he kept mentioning that because EJ is going to react to that...with revenge.
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Deleted User
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 12 2009, 10:40 PM
Alligato
Dec 12 2009, 10:08 PM
Why Mer?
It is perfect for EJ! This makes sense as he was duped and now he is a duper!
This is stuff of oldEJ who was one step ahead of everyone! I was a big fan of oldEJ!
And he is not under his daddy's spell anymore, so this shows who he really is.
Exactly.

If he is involved, this is something the character of EJ NEEDS. After the last few years, he's lost what made him great in the first place. I think JS knows that and I think the show knows that. Corday kept mentioning how EJ had been lied to multiple times and I think he kept mentioning that because EJ is going to react to that...with revenge.
This sounds less about character development for EJ and more about dragging this storyline on and on.
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Halloween Family
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miou07
Dec 12 2009, 11:03 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 12 2009, 10:40 PM
Alligato
Dec 12 2009, 10:08 PM
Why Mer?
It is perfect for EJ! This makes sense as he was duped and now he is a duper!
This is stuff of oldEJ who was one step ahead of everyone! I was a big fan of oldEJ!
And he is not under his daddy's spell anymore, so this shows who he really is.
Exactly.

If he is involved, this is something the character of EJ NEEDS. After the last few years, he's lost what made him great in the first place. I think JS knows that and I think the show knows that. Corday kept mentioning how EJ had been lied to multiple times and I think he kept mentioning that because EJ is going to react to that...with revenge.
This sounds less about character development for EJ and more about dragging this storyline on and on.
Succintly put!
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PhoenixRising05
Member Avatar


miou07
Dec 12 2009, 11:03 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 12 2009, 10:40 PM
Alligato
Dec 12 2009, 10:08 PM
Why Mer?
It is perfect for EJ! This makes sense as he was duped and now he is a duper!
This is stuff of oldEJ who was one step ahead of everyone! I was a big fan of oldEJ!
And he is not under his daddy's spell anymore, so this shows who he really is.
Exactly.

If he is involved, this is something the character of EJ NEEDS. After the last few years, he's lost what made him great in the first place. I think JS knows that and I think the show knows that. Corday kept mentioning how EJ had been lied to multiple times and I think he kept mentioning that because EJ is going to react to that...with revenge.
This sounds less about character development for EJ and more about dragging this storyline on and on.
It's both and that is great storytelling.

The best soap stories are the ones that do go on for a long time. Days took a cliched plot like a baby switch and is still driving story with it more then a year later and the amount of layers they put into it is remarkable.

You tell a story at a pace befitting of that particular story on your canvas. You don't rush through stories and the idea of a good story is to create even more story and to develop and have characters grow throughout and after that story. If that means it goes on for 5 years, so be it. I don't see that happening here but that is what soaps have always been about. This past decade soaps got away from it and look what happened. Days got back to it last year and ratings went up. Coincidence? I don't think so.

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Deleted User
Deleted User

PhoenixRising05
Dec 13 2009, 01:56 AM
miou07
Dec 12 2009, 11:03 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 12 2009, 10:40 PM
Alligato
Dec 12 2009, 10:08 PM
Why Mer?
It is perfect for EJ! This makes sense as he was duped and now he is a duper!
This is stuff of oldEJ who was one step ahead of everyone! I was a big fan of oldEJ!
And he is not under his daddy's spell anymore, so this shows who he really is.
Exactly.

If he is involved, this is something the character of EJ NEEDS. After the last few years, he's lost what made him great in the first place. I think JS knows that and I think the show knows that. Corday kept mentioning how EJ had been lied to multiple times and I think he kept mentioning that because EJ is going to react to that...with revenge.
This sounds less about character development for EJ and more about dragging this storyline on and on.
It's both and that is great storytelling.

The best soap stories are the ones that do go on for a long time. Days took a cliched plot like a baby switch and is still driving story with it more then a year later and the amount of layers they put into it is remarkable.

You tell a story at a pace befitting of that particular story on your canvas. You don't rush through stories and the idea of a good story is to create even more story and to develop and have characters grow throughout and after that story. If that means it goes on for 5 years, so be it. I don't see that happening here but that is what soaps have always been about. This past decade soaps got away from it and look what happened. Days got back to it last year and ratings went up. Coincidence? I don't think so.

The storytelling part I will agree with you on. Days has made a cliched story its centerpiece and it worked. The ratings cannot be disputed. I didn't enjoy it but I will concede that most people did.

But I disagree about the character development. EJ's character was completely destroyed to further the plot for this story. He became a humorless imbecile who couldn't tell that his wife had strapped on a rubber belly and faked a pregnancy. At the same time, he spent most of his time drinking, yelling and being alternately abusive -- what fun. As an EJ fan, I found this story impossible to watch because of that fact. In fact, I quit watching in August because of the writing. I actually had the good fortune to share my feelings about the writing with JS in October during a phone call -- which turned out to be quite enlightening. It was only because of that and his kindness that I decided to tune in to see the conclusion of the babyswitch.

I don't see how having him kidnap his own child rebuilding his character. How does kidnapping Sidney benefit him in anyway? The only person this will hurt will be EJ. That's not brilliant. I am all but certain his actions won't be explained in any detail except that he was being "EJ." Plus, since EJ seems to be the designated baddie, how is this a surprise? Wow, EJ is behind this. How original. And to top it off, I've read that EJ is now a drug kingpin? Score another point for his character. This show has done a crap job with EJ and all I see are more and more people who cannot stand him anymore. All of his wit, humor, intelligence has been sapped from him under Higley/Tomlin/Whitesell. This is not the EJ that I fell for. I don't know who he is anymore.

All I see is the show's attempt to write this character into a dark corner from which he'll never escape. I guess for those who dislike his character, that's fun to watch. But for someone like me, who actually loves EJ's character, not pleasant watching. Not in the least. I will be skipping this "wonderful" phase in his development.
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PhoenixRising05
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miou07
Dec 13 2009, 03:01 AM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 13 2009, 01:56 AM
miou07
Dec 12 2009, 11:03 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 12 2009, 10:40 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
This sounds less about character development for EJ and more about dragging this storyline on and on.
It's both and that is great storytelling.

The best soap stories are the ones that do go on for a long time. Days took a cliched plot like a baby switch and is still driving story with it more then a year later and the amount of layers they put into it is remarkable.

You tell a story at a pace befitting of that particular story on your canvas. You don't rush through stories and the idea of a good story is to create even more story and to develop and have characters grow throughout and after that story. If that means it goes on for 5 years, so be it. I don't see that happening here but that is what soaps have always been about. This past decade soaps got away from it and look what happened. Days got back to it last year and ratings went up. Coincidence? I don't think so.

The storytelling part I will agree with you on. Days has made a cliched story its centerpiece and it worked. The ratings cannot be disputed. I didn't enjoy it but I will concede that most people did.

But I disagree about the character development. EJ's character was completely destroyed to further the plot for this story. He became a humorless imbecile who couldn't tell that his wife had strapped on a rubber belly and faked a pregnancy. At the same time, he spent most of his time drinking, yelling and being alternately abusive -- what fun. As an EJ fan, I found this story impossible to watch because of that fact. In fact, I quit watching in August because of the writing. I actually had the good fortune to share my feelings about the writing with JS in October during a phone call -- which turned out to be quite enlightening. It was only because of that and his kindness that I decided to tune in to see the conclusion of the babyswitch.

I don't see how having him kidnap his own child rebuilding his character. How does kidnapping Sidney benefit him in anyway? The only person this will hurt will be EJ. That's not brilliant. I am all but certain his actions won't be explained in any detail except that he was being "EJ." Plus, since EJ seems to be the designated baddie, how is this a surprise? Wow, EJ is behind this. How original. This show has done a crap job with his character and all I see are more and more people who cannot stand him anymore. All of his wit, humor, intelligence has been sapped from him under Higley/Tomlin/Whitesell. This is not the EJ that I fell for. I don't know who he is anymore.

All I see is the show's attempt to write this character into a dark corner from which he'll never escape. I guess for those who dislike his character, that's fun to watch. But for someone like me, who actually loves EJ's character, not pleasant watching. Not in the least. I will be skipping this "wonderful" phase in his development.
Are you forgetting what EJ was during his first year or so on the show? This story will bring him back to that. The will just stop short of having him commit an action like what happened with him and Sami in that car. They will bring him back to the character he used to be. He won't get ruined by this. He was ruined the minute everything he did in his first year on the show got swept under the rug just so they could force EJ and Sami together via some insta-redemption. I'm not disputing that they made him dumb this past year because the kind of story they were telling called for it but I don't see how it can be argued that IF EJ is behind this kidnapping of Sydney it doesn't bring him back to the character he once was. His actions wouldn't even have to be explained. He got lied to THREE times. All Sami and Nicole have done is screw with him. Stefano betrayed him. There is plenty there to justify him doing this and to justify a very dark turn. In fact, given his history, it would be bad writing not to take him down a very dark path right now.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Also, you probably don't find it shocking that EJ is involved because, like all of us, you hang around message boards. To most fans, they will find it shocking just like they will find the fact that Anna is involved shocking.

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PhoenixRising05
Dec 13 2009, 03:35 AM
miou07
Dec 13 2009, 03:01 AM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 13 2009, 01:56 AM
miou07
Dec 12 2009, 11:03 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
It's both and that is great storytelling.

The best soap stories are the ones that do go on for a long time. Days took a cliched plot like a baby switch and is still driving story with it more then a year later and the amount of layers they put into it is remarkable.

You tell a story at a pace befitting of that particular story on your canvas. You don't rush through stories and the idea of a good story is to create even more story and to develop and have characters grow throughout and after that story. If that means it goes on for 5 years, so be it. I don't see that happening here but that is what soaps have always been about. This past decade soaps got away from it and look what happened. Days got back to it last year and ratings went up. Coincidence? I don't think so.

The storytelling part I will agree with you on. Days has made a cliched story its centerpiece and it worked. The ratings cannot be disputed. I didn't enjoy it but I will concede that most people did.

But I disagree about the character development. EJ's character was completely destroyed to further the plot for this story. He became a humorless imbecile who couldn't tell that his wife had strapped on a rubber belly and faked a pregnancy. At the same time, he spent most of his time drinking, yelling and being alternately abusive -- what fun. As an EJ fan, I found this story impossible to watch because of that fact. In fact, I quit watching in August because of the writing. I actually had the good fortune to share my feelings about the writing with JS in October during a phone call -- which turned out to be quite enlightening. It was only because of that and his kindness that I decided to tune in to see the conclusion of the babyswitch.

I don't see how having him kidnap his own child rebuilding his character. How does kidnapping Sidney benefit him in anyway? The only person this will hurt will be EJ. That's not brilliant. I am all but certain his actions won't be explained in any detail except that he was being "EJ." Plus, since EJ seems to be the designated baddie, how is this a surprise? Wow, EJ is behind this. How original. This show has done a crap job with his character and all I see are more and more people who cannot stand him anymore. All of his wit, humor, intelligence has been sapped from him under Higley/Tomlin/Whitesell. This is not the EJ that I fell for. I don't know who he is anymore.

All I see is the show's attempt to write this character into a dark corner from which he'll never escape. I guess for those who dislike his character, that's fun to watch. But for someone like me, who actually loves EJ's character, not pleasant watching. Not in the least. I will be skipping this "wonderful" phase in his development.
Are you forgetting what EJ was during his first year or so on the show? This story will bring him back to that. The will just stop short of having him commit an action like what happened with him and Sami in that car. They will bring him back to the character he used to be. He won't get ruined by this. He was ruined the minute everything he did in his first year on the show got swept under the rug just so they could force EJ and Sami together via some insta-redemption. I'm not disputing that they made him dumb this past year because the kind of story they were telling called for it but I don't see how it can be argued that IF EJ is behind this kidnapping of Sydney it doesn't bring him back to the character he once was. His actions wouldn't even have to be explained. He got lied to THREE times. All Sami and Nicole have done is screw with him. Stefano betrayed him. There is plenty there to justify him doing this and to justify a very dark turn. In fact, given his history, it would be bad writing not to take him down a very dark path right now.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Also, you probably don't find it shocking that EJ is involved because, like all of us, you hang around message boards. To most fans, they will find it shocking just like they will find the fact that Anna is involved shocking.

Forget what happened the first year he was on show? How could I forget when it has been thrown in my face ad nauseum?

What happened in December 06 wasn't a positive. That wasn't a character development EJ fans wanted and judging from the ratings that wasn't what the general audience wanted either. Why is it important to take him back to that time or as you say, "just short of having him commit an action like what happened with him and Sami in that car."

Will this dark turn be entertaining to viewers? That is the main question. I guess only time will tell.
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PhoenixRising05
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miou07
Dec 13 2009, 03:54 AM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 13 2009, 03:35 AM
miou07
Dec 13 2009, 03:01 AM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 13 2009, 01:56 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
The storytelling part I will agree with you on. Days has made a cliched story its centerpiece and it worked. The ratings cannot be disputed. I didn't enjoy it but I will concede that most people did.

But I disagree about the character development. EJ's character was completely destroyed to further the plot for this story. He became a humorless imbecile who couldn't tell that his wife had strapped on a rubber belly and faked a pregnancy. At the same time, he spent most of his time drinking, yelling and being alternately abusive -- what fun. As an EJ fan, I found this story impossible to watch because of that fact. In fact, I quit watching in August because of the writing. I actually had the good fortune to share my feelings about the writing with JS in October during a phone call -- which turned out to be quite enlightening. It was only because of that and his kindness that I decided to tune in to see the conclusion of the babyswitch.

I don't see how having him kidnap his own child rebuilding his character. How does kidnapping Sidney benefit him in anyway? The only person this will hurt will be EJ. That's not brilliant. I am all but certain his actions won't be explained in any detail except that he was being "EJ." Plus, since EJ seems to be the designated baddie, how is this a surprise? Wow, EJ is behind this. How original. This show has done a crap job with his character and all I see are more and more people who cannot stand him anymore. All of his wit, humor, intelligence has been sapped from him under Higley/Tomlin/Whitesell. This is not the EJ that I fell for. I don't know who he is anymore.

All I see is the show's attempt to write this character into a dark corner from which he'll never escape. I guess for those who dislike his character, that's fun to watch. But for someone like me, who actually loves EJ's character, not pleasant watching. Not in the least. I will be skipping this "wonderful" phase in his development.
Are you forgetting what EJ was during his first year or so on the show? This story will bring him back to that. The will just stop short of having him commit an action like what happened with him and Sami in that car. They will bring him back to the character he used to be. He won't get ruined by this. He was ruined the minute everything he did in his first year on the show got swept under the rug just so they could force EJ and Sami together via some insta-redemption. I'm not disputing that they made him dumb this past year because the kind of story they were telling called for it but I don't see how it can be argued that IF EJ is behind this kidnapping of Sydney it doesn't bring him back to the character he once was. His actions wouldn't even have to be explained. He got lied to THREE times. All Sami and Nicole have done is screw with him. Stefano betrayed him. There is plenty there to justify him doing this and to justify a very dark turn. In fact, given his history, it would be bad writing not to take him down a very dark path right now.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Also, you probably don't find it shocking that EJ is involved because, like all of us, you hang around message boards. To most fans, they will find it shocking just like they will find the fact that Anna is involved shocking.

Forget what happened the first year he was on show? How could I forget when it has been thrown in my face ad nauseum?

What happened in December 06 wasn't a positive. That wasn't a character development EJ fans wanted and judging from the ratings that wasn't what the general audience wanted either. Why is it important to take him back to that time or as you say, "just short of having him commit an action like what happened with him and Sami in that car."

Will this dark turn be entertaining to viewers? That is the main question. I guess only time will tell.
Your statement about that not being what EJ fans or the general audience wants is strange considering the ratings were HIGHER when he was like that and dropped when the show began to start insta-redeeming him. Not to mention this whole past year that he was an abusive idiot the ratings were higher. Regardless, it's hard to use ratings to further any case as far as characters go. It's all about the story. If people like the story, they could care less if the character is being made to be a fool or not.

Also, EJ's first year on the show he was a darker, more evil character and that was, more or less, the way the character ended up being presented so that was not development. It was introduction. EJ was being built up as the younger Stefano. That infamous night and the months that followed took him too far. THAT wasn't a positive, I will agree with you there. However, May 2006-December 2006 EJ is who EJ is. That is what I feel he will and should return too. He's a bit more complex and grey. Cunning, intelligent, sexy, dark, suave, etc.

We'll see what happens.
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Kevc1980
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I could totally see EJ working with Anna to frame Stefano for the kidnapping. It's really the perfect revenge. And he get's to mess with Sami and Nicole a little bit, who both lied to him over and over. I think this is a great twist.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Phoenix brings up good points. If you even disregard the "day that will live in Days' infamy", EJ was also the highly touted Gloved Hand who wreaked havoc and was the guy who beat Patrick with a belt. That guy had no halo over his head. If anything, I think the pussy-fying of EJ happened when he and Sami had their "forced" marriage, he got shot in the back, and all that Santeen stuff was going on.
This? It's good storytelling. As long as they don't go on the merry-go-round of the Groundhog Day scenes (saying the same things over and over), I think it will work. Therein lies the danger. Can they extend a story and make it branch out into a totally new story as well as One Life? Stay tuned!
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Alligato
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I am a HUGE EJ fan and I love this for him! He needs this after the past few years of being whipped by everyone he knows.

It has killed me to see him beg/cower to Sami or be fooled by Nicole or be so fawning over his daddy, and to watch him throw glasses and strangle people has been too over the top. I even hate that he is letting the Brady's be in charge over the Sydnapping and thanking Rafe. WTF!

So now he is trying to be in control, he is taking back his daugther and getting revenge on the people who have really lied to him and decieved him. This isn't hurting him at all! This is destroying Sami and hurting Nicole. He is sneaky, deceiving and it perfect for his character to gain back some of the control and power he had that made him compelling to watch.
Once this is done, he can find the wit and snark that made him so appealing...he certainly couldn't act like a James Bond when he was being duped by squeaky voiced blondies.

Now if we have another two months of people shouting "where's Sydney" "where's my daughter" "don't worry, we will find Sydney, I promise you", then fuck EJ! Just end it now and sacrifice EJ for my sanity! LOL!
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Liz<3Days
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Wow, as a fan of the character, I welcome him returning to the cunning side he had when introduced.

So, if EJ wasn't involved in this kidnapping, what would be a better scenario? Am I to believe he's yelling and screaming at people he's known for a second (Fay) because he can? At present, I can't stand him. Even the stupid ass plan he has with Sami is not as good as what he could conjure up.

The REAL EJ is enjoying twisting the knife into those that have wronged him. You know he wanted revenge all along. He tried using Johnny when he found out Grace was his and Sami deceived him. Nicole stopped him, but he always said that he'll never forget. Now he's using his daughter to get revenge on Sami, Nicole, and Steffy (and maybe Rafe if he could somehow pin it on someone from his past!)

This is the EJ that came to Salem...now he needs to get back at Brady. I think he was something special for him! (Maybe thats how the drug SL and Arianna play into his next plan!)

As an EJ fan I would LOVE him getting the upper hand and it would be surprising because of how he managed to get Anna to help him!
Edited by Liz<3Days, Dec 13 2009, 11:07 AM.
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mer4santo
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miou07
Dec 12 2009, 11:03 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 12 2009, 10:40 PM
Alligato
Dec 12 2009, 10:08 PM
Why Mer?
It is perfect for EJ! This makes sense as he was duped and now he is a duper!
This is stuff of oldEJ who was one step ahead of everyone! I was a big fan of oldEJ!
And he is not under his daddy's spell anymore, so this shows who he really is.
Exactly.

If he is involved, this is something the character of EJ NEEDS. After the last few years, he's lost what made him great in the first place. I think JS knows that and I think the show knows that. Corday kept mentioning how EJ had been lied to multiple times and I think he kept mentioning that because EJ is going to react to that...with revenge.
This sounds less about character development for EJ and more about dragging this storyline on and on.
Exactly.

Believe me, I've asked Santa for the return of oldskool EJ for the past few years, I want semblance of the cunning, charming, witty, and devious back! So while making him the BlackGlove 2.0 may seem a logical route, I don't see the payoff if he is behind Sydney's disappearance. I don't see how it develops his character because in the end, what will it get him? Sami worries about a child she has known was hers for 24 hours and Stefano worries about his beloved grandchild for a few weeks and then Syd is returned and that's it. So? How is it lasting revenge? If he is attempting to get Sami back then this could backfire big time as soon as she finds out about his plot. If he is trying to make Sami and Stefano suffer for keeping him from his kid, I'd think he would steal Johnny too, thus upping the stakes and causing a lot of pain. Without understanding a payoff for him, I don't think it's a brilliant twist. I think its a logical deduction. EJ was hurt, EJ gets back at offenders. That is what EJ used to do, so if anything it's character regression. So if it is him I definitely think it's a way to prolong the story and use up AZ's every available minute prior to maternity leave.

Despite this, as time goes on I don't think it's EJ or Stefano, but will see how it plays out. I will admit to being impressed that the show has stumped me even if the baby story is stretched over its limit. I'm intrigued that Anna is involved, (mostly because I love her) but I don't think she would help either EJ or Stefano.

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Sindacco
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Liz<3Days
Dec 13 2009, 11:05 AM
The REAL EJ is enjoying twisting the knife into those that have wronged him. You know he wanted revenge all along. He tried using Johnny when he found out Grace was his and Sami deceived him. Nicole stopped him, but he always said that he'll never forget. Now he's using his daughter to get revenge on Sami, Nicole, and Steffy (and maybe Rafe if he could somehow pin it on someone from his past!)

This is the EJ that came to Salem...now he needs to get back at Brady. I think he was something special for him! (Maybe thats how the drug SL and Arianna play into his next plan!)

As an EJ fan I would LOVE him getting the upper hand and it would be surprising because of how he managed to get Anna to help him!
Except that "the real EJ" didn't have a reason to twist the knife in someone in Salem. Because no one had done him any wrong. He was a psycho that enjoyed wrecking havoc in peoples lives, that's it. He has never been a complex character.
Edited by Sindacco, Dec 13 2009, 02:03 PM.
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Alligato
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mer4santo
Dec 13 2009, 01:36 PM
I don't see how it develops his character because in the end, what will it get him? Sami worries about a child she has known was hers for 24 hours and Stefano worries about his beloved grandchild for a few weeks and then Syd is returned and that's it.
It's about revenge. What does revenge get anybody? Not much, I don't think...just satisfaction, and sometimes that doesn't even work out. Ever seen Sweeney Todd? Love that movie!

Maybe he never plans on returning Sydney. Since he was okay with throwing a child out of his house, maybe he sees her as a pawn...just like he saw Johnny as a pawn by keeping him from Sami and using him to get back at her.

This isn't about developing relationships and developing characters, this is about EJ being pissed off and furious that none of the women in his life cared enough about him to be honest and one of those women that he loved very much ready to give his daughter to another man to raise. If he just blew that off, I would say that would ruin his character more than anything!

I can't wait to see EJ do this...and how he will pull it off! Finally something good, and in one poof, I am hooked back into this story!
And if it isn't EJ, I hope it is something just as awesome!
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magicsteacher
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Alligato
Dec 13 2009, 02:52 PM
mer4santo
Dec 13 2009, 01:36 PM
I don't see how it develops his character because in the end, what will it get him? Sami worries about a child she has known was hers for 24 hours and Stefano worries about his beloved grandchild for a few weeks and then Syd is returned and that's it.
It's about revenge. What does revenge get anybody? Not much, I don't think...just satisfaction, and sometimes that doesn't even work out. Ever seen Sweeney Todd? Love that movie!

Maybe he never plans on returning Sydney. Since he was okay with throwing a child out of his house, maybe he sees her as a pawn...just like he saw Johnny as a pawn by keeping him from Sami and using him to get back at her.

This isn't about developing relationships and developing characters, this is about EJ being pissed off and furious that none of the women in his life cared enough about him to be honest and one of those women that he loved very much ready to give his daughter to another man to raise. If he just blew that off, I would say that would ruin his character more than anything!

I can't wait to see EJ do this...and how he will pull it off! Finally something good, and in one poof, I am hooked back into this story!
And if it isn't EJ, I hope it is something just as awesome!
Maybe it's a double twist. Could it be that Tony is really alive? Anna was contacted by EJ to help him out to get back at Stefano, but Tony and Anna have a plot of their own---- to get back at EJ and Stefano by means of the kidnapping.
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☼ Jinx ☼
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Live. Love. Laugh. ♥

^ I can see Tony wanting to get back at Stefano, but I don't think EJ. Moreover, Anna being involved in a plot like that ... I dunno!
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Liz<3Days
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Sindacco
Dec 13 2009, 02:01 PM
Liz<3Days
Dec 13 2009, 11:05 AM
The REAL EJ is enjoying twisting the knife into those that have wronged him. You know he wanted revenge all along. He tried using Johnny when he found out Grace was his and Sami deceived him. Nicole stopped him, but he always said that he'll never forget. Now he's using his daughter to get revenge on Sami, Nicole, and Steffy (and maybe Rafe if he could somehow pin it on someone from his past!)

This is the EJ that came to Salem...now he needs to get back at Brady. I think he was something special for him! (Maybe thats how the drug SL and Arianna play into his next plan!)

As an EJ fan I would LOVE him getting the upper hand and it would be surprising because of how he managed to get Anna to help him!
Except that "the real EJ" didn't have a reason to twist the knife in someone in Salem. Because no one had done him any wrong. He was a psycho that enjoyed wrecking havoc in peoples lives, that's it. He has never been a complex character.
I never said he was complex. He came to Salem because his daddy told him to. He's always been tied to his daddy and looks for his approval.

I dont know if we'll see character development out of any of these characters. If there is growth, its at the surface, never much deeper then a kiddie pool.

I do like that if EJs the mastermind, that it gives him that control and he stops whining to everyone how he has wronged. It also has drawn me back into this SL because I want to see what EJs up to and how he twist that knife into those that he trusted the most!
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

I consider myself a huge EJ fan, but I have no idea who or what "the real EJ" is supposed to be or even should be.

Even when people talk about this bringing him back to what he was on the first year of the show like PR is here, I wonder... are you talking about the race car driver EJ at the first part of his year on the show who was brought on by JER as a legitimate love interest for Sami and who was never intended to be the gloved hand (Jan Spears was) or are you talking about the OTT monster sociopath who got saddled with all the gloved hand baggage painstakingly torturing and messing with people he didn't even know (like Eve Michaels or Mimi and Phillip) just as a shortcut for Hogan to wrap up that story quickly or are you talking about the EJ who was a badass business executive working with Kate at Mythic Communications or the EJ who was a DiMera soldier torturing Steve with a tarot card to get Daddy a kidney and following orders to implant his seed in Sami as Hogan wreaked his havoc trying to implement his version of Marlena vs. Stefano II? I mean what exactly is it you want the show to get back to?

I think it's a waste to make EJ sooooo bad and sooo dark that he can't have any romance when he's played by arguably one of the most desirable male actors, if not the most desirable male actor, on the show (my own biases aside... what I'm more going by is his popularity at things like Soap Hunks) and it's messed up IMO to take him in such a dark direction like he was as the DiMera soldier sociopath after the show has given him these two small children with the woman who the show insists is its main heroine now.

That said, I can deal with him conspiring with Anna to kidnap Sydney from Nicole, if that is what is going on. I don't think him simply working with her to get back at all the people who lied to him/took his kid from him/manipulated him over the last year (while not putting Sydney in danger) necessarily takes him back to whatever he was in 2006-early 07. Is it mean and underhanded? Probably. But unconscionable? Meh. I don't think so. On the scale of EJ's past misdeeds I put it maybe one notch worse than lying to Sami about the immigration deal but nowhere near his crimes of 2006-07. Certainly Nicole and Stefano both deserve this to happen to them. And as for Sami and Rafe... well... they sort of suffered once in this at Nicole's hands by grieving over Grace when that wasn't Sami's biological child but it's not like they faced any real consequences for attempting to let Rafe illegally adopt the kid they thought was EJ's. AND Sami's big goal to keep the pregnancy a secret from EJ in the first place was so that Stefano wouldn't have any access to the child. Sami was supposedly so gung ho about that she was willing to dump the baby off with strangers at the nunnery just so Stefano would not be able to see her. Well, if EJ has arranged for the child to be kept away and cared for by Anna in secret then he's done a better job than Sami at achieving that goal. And as for him possibly getting closer to Sami at the same time he's lying to her about Sydney... well... it's not like everyone else in this sordid drama besides EJ hasn't already used this poor child as a pawn to punish someone or bond themselves to someone else so the way I see it, it's really just EJ's turn. That is, if that is even how it plays out, which at this point I have no idea if it will given all the twists and turns that have surprised me to this point.

I will be pissed though if the show tries to present EJ as some big evil just because he bought the drug business from Victor and apparently is Salem's big drug kingpin now. My own personal rather libertarian views on drugs aside, it just won't make any sense at all if EJ spends a second in jail for being the drug lord when Arianna and Brady had straight up proof Victor had been involved in drug trafficking and never reported it to the cops.
Edited by IMissAremid, Dec 13 2009, 05:35 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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Alligato
Dec 13 2009, 09:22 AM
I am a HUGE EJ fan and I love this for him! He needs this after the past few years of being whipped by everyone he knows.

It has killed me to see him beg/cower to Sami or be fooled by Nicole or be so fawning over his daddy, and to watch him throw glasses and strangle people has been too over the top. I even hate that he is letting the Brady's be in charge over the Sydnapping and thanking Rafe. WTF!

So now he is trying to be in control, he is taking back his daugther and getting revenge on the people who have really lied to him and decieved him. This isn't hurting him at all! This is destroying Sami and hurting Nicole. He is sneaky, deceiving and it perfect for his character to gain back some of the control and power he had that made him compelling to watch.
Once this is done, he can find the wit and snark that made him so appealing...he certainly couldn't act like a James Bond when he was being duped by squeaky voiced blondies.

Now if we have another two months of people shouting "where's Sydney" "where's my daughter" "don't worry, we will find Sydney, I promise you", then fuck EJ! Just end it now and sacrifice EJ for my sanity! LOL!
I agree.

IMA raises some interesting points though. EJ's tenure has been one character shift after another but I believe the one thing that remained constant in his first year on the show (I'm disregarding that infamous night because that was a huge mistake) is how mischievous he was and cunning, suave, intelligent, and firm...he was so many things. He reminded me alot of Tony when he first showed up. There were shades of grey there. He had a dark side but there was a vulnerability without him being weak. He liked to have the upper hand but there was always this underlying sense that he was out to prove himself to be equal to or better then his father and that is all he was doing this for. He fell for Sami early on in his run and that is what allowed his vulnerability to show. I felt they had him nailed until "that night." Even with the gloved hand stuff, you could bring him back from those crimes because there was Sami. When they had him do what he did to her that night and then had him torture her with it for months after, that went too far because he had hurt the one person who seemed to tap into that vulnerable side of his. The worst thing the show did was try to whitewash everything. They could've did one hell of a redemption arc with him while also keeping the sides of him that made him interesting to begin with. Instead, they made him softer and softer over time.

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