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Spoilers for wk of December 28th; *UPDATED 12/25*
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Topic Started: Dec 16 2009, 09:56 PM (18,435 Views)
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SocRMum1
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Dec 29 2009, 12:26 PM
Post #141
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.
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- aimees76
- Dec 29 2009, 12:07 PM
- daisy132
- Dec 28 2009, 11:58 PM
- Alligato
- Dec 28 2009, 11:48 PM
- lazydazes
- Dec 28 2009, 04:33 PM
Poor Sydney. One day with EJ/Sami and she has already became a bargaining chip. It's ridiculous that Sydney is being swapped around like a ragdoll while her happiness/welfare is contingent upon what man Sami chooses. Isn't the child the most important thing in this whole crazy situation? For months, there has been a mad push for Sami to get her baby back even though she lied about the child in the beginning. Of course, that was justified, at least a little while ago. Now, since Sami isn't gungho over EJ, the sentiment is that she shouldn't get her baby back. Color me confused. :shrug: I just don't get it.
LMAO! You makes some excellent points here! Post more please! LOL! If Sami wants to raise her children with Rafe and wants EJ to be nothing in her life other than "Johnny's father", that is fine with me. Why does that make her a bad person? Or an unworthy mother? Why does that justify EJ keeping her daughter from her? Don't get me wrong, I can't stand the woman and really wouldn't mind if she lost all of her men and her kids.
It's not ok for Sami to raise Sydney with Rafe as her father because he's not! I can't think of ONE instant where I would give up my flesh and blood to my ex's girlfriend to raise as her own. Could any of you? So on that basis, and on what EJ heard Sami say to Rafe about his daughter, I hope that he files for, and gets full custody of Sydney, and gives Sami and the bore just visitation rights.
Yeah well, EJ wasn't Allie's father but it was A-ok for him to love and raise her as if she was his own, and even refer to her as a Dimera, when he and Sami were playing house .... it was even oh so sweet and proof of what a wonderful father he was and how much he loved Sami, because he loved Allie as much as Johnny even though she wasn't his. It is only not ok in this case because this is EJ's kid being loved by a man that Sami loves that is not EJ. And no, I still am not a Safe fan, and never will be. No doubt we'll always disagree on this - but there is a big difference between EJ's relationship with Allie versus Rafe and Sydney.
EJ thought for much of Sami's pregnancy that Allie was his biological daughter. She is the twin sister of his biological son, thus they spent their infancy literally side by side. He spent as much time with Allie as he did with Johnny for months. And while they were in the safe house and Sami was upset about the lack of influence Lucas would have on Allie's life because he was in prison EJ explained that there was no confusion unlike what Sami went through with John and Roman. Allie would know that Lucas was her father but that didn't mean that EJ couldn't/shouldn't care about her because as he said 'there is plenty enough love to go around'.
Rafe, on the other hand, has spent what? About five minutes with Sydney? Walking around stating that he loves her and intends to raise her as if she were his own is a little over the top, given the circumstances. I understand that Rafe loved Grace because he had a relationship with her. But even then, he fully supported and helped perpetrate the plan to exclude her biological father from her life. EJ has never done anything remotely close to that with Allie.
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Paxton
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Dec 29 2009, 12:26 PM
Post #142
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- SocRMum1
- Dec 29 2009, 11:38 AM
^^ I didn't say that EJ has broken with Stefano to become a better man. My point was that Sami's reasoning for hiding the truth about their daughter was the influence Stefano would have on her life. EJ has since very emphatically broken away from that influence - thus it's hypocritical, just as IMiss said, for that now to not be enough for Sami.
You didn't explicitly say EJ broke ties with Stefano to become a better man but your point, it seemed to me, was that Sami should have been satisfied that EJ was breaking ties with Stefano--that she should have been comfortable knowing her children were not susceptible to Stefano's evil influence. I have never believed that Stefano and Stefano only was the reason that Sami hid her pregnancy and child, but even if they were, the point is that EJ himself has demonstrated repeatedly that Stefano alone is not the problem. EJ is not a child who has no free will and can only do what Stefano tells him to, thus, his involvement in 2009's DiMera-orchestrated felonies gave Sami abundant reasons to be concerned about what her children will be exposed to living with EJ (and I fully agree she should be concerned about BOTH of her children with EJ). Not to mention which we, the audience, know that EJ cutting ties with Stefano really doesn't have anything to do with him realizing he needs to improve his lifestyle in order to be a better role model for his children, as evidenced by his drug lording.
Believe you me, I think Sami is one major fucking hypocrite, but it isn't for the reasons you've outlined.
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The problem with that line of thought is that Sami just said she was wrong for hiding Sydney (not Grace) during the time that Nicole had her. I'm referring to the scene that aired when EJ and Sami were looking at Sydney's baby book, and Sami took the blame for setting the plan in motion, and talked about feeling what EJ felt when he spoke of not knowing Grace. When EJ told her it was okay, she told him that it wasn't. So hiding Sydney wasn't okay when Nicole was on the run with her, but suddenly it is again now that an unknown person has her? It makes no sense.
I wouldn't say that makes no sense. People's feelings evolve as they adjust to situations, and Sami's had time since then to see EJ ranting and raving while Rafe continues to get the hero edit. Plus, is this the exchange you're talking about?
Sami: I can't believe I missed all of this. I mean...just like you missed out on grace. I tried to keep you from knowing your daughter. And because of that I lost out a year of my daughter's life. I would never trade the time that I had with grace.
EJ: It's okay.
Sami: It's not okay. I remember you telling me that you didn't even know what color grace's eyes were, and you couldn't remember her sweet, little face. EJ, what if we don't get Sydney back? What if we don't get her back?
EJ: Samantha, hey, listen to me. We're going to get her back. I swear to you. We will get her back, and we're going to do it together. Together. Okay?
http://tvmegasite.net/day/days/transcripts/older/2009/trans-da-11-27-09.shtml
That doesn't strike me as much of an apology. That's pretty much Sami being upset that she's in the same position that EJ was, but it's about her feelings first and foremost. It wasn't "okay" because Sami had missed out on all of Sydney's life so far and was potentially never going to see her again.
But anyway, whether you consider that a heartfelt apology or not, I don't think there's any dispute that Sami's preference would have been that she and Rafe could have just raised Sydney together, whether EJ knew about her or not. I really don't see any evidence whatsoever that Sami wishes things were different so she could have raised Sydney with EJ. So I think what we've seen is actually reasonably consistent: Sami has felt some level of guilt for dishing out to EJ what's getting dished to her, but she still wants Rafe and still wants Rafe to be Sydney's daddy.
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lysie
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Dec 29 2009, 12:34 PM
Post #143
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- SocRMum1
- Dec 29 2009, 12:26 PM
- aimees76
- Dec 29 2009, 12:07 PM
- daisy132
- Dec 28 2009, 11:58 PM
- Alligato
- Dec 28 2009, 11:48 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
It's not ok for Sami to raise Sydney with Rafe as her father because he's not! I can't think of ONE instant where I would give up my flesh and blood to my ex's girlfriend to raise as her own. Could any of you? So on that basis, and on what EJ heard Sami say to Rafe about his daughter, I hope that he files for, and gets full custody of Sydney, and gives Sami and the bore just visitation rights.
Yeah well, EJ wasn't Allie's father but it was A-ok for him to love and raise her as if she was his own, and even refer to her as a Dimera, when he and Sami were playing house .... it was even oh so sweet and proof of what a wonderful father he was and how much he loved Sami, because he loved Allie as much as Johnny even though she wasn't his. It is only not ok in this case because this is EJ's kid being loved by a man that Sami loves that is not EJ. And no, I still am not a Safe fan, and never will be.
No doubt we'll always disagree on this - but there is a big difference between EJ's relationship with Allie versus Rafe and Sydney. EJ thought for much of Sami's pregnancy that Allie was his biological daughter. She is the twin sister of his biological son, thus they spent their infancy literally side by side. He spent as much time with Allie as he did with Johnny for months. And while they were in the safe house and Sami was upset about the lack of influence Lucas would have on Allie's life because he was in prison EJ explained that there was no confusion unlike what Sami went through with John and Roman. Allie would know that Lucas was her father but that didn't mean that EJ couldn't/shouldn't care about her because as he said 'there is plenty enough love to go around'. Rafe, on the other hand, has spent what? About five minutes with Sydney? Walking around stating that he loves her and intends to raise her as if she were his own is a little over the top, given the circumstances. I understand that Rafe loved Grace because he had a relationship with her. But even then, he fully supported and helped perpetrate the plan to exclude her biological father from her life. EJ has never done anything remotely close to that with Allie. I think it's pretty similar. He doesn't give a crap about Allie now, but when he did he was all "I'll love her as my own" just like Rafe is. EJ had been involved in plots to kill Lucas and various other members of Sami's family and had threatened Sami's other child which IMO is worse than what Rafe did (Sami allowed Rafe to do what he did). And once Lucas got out jail, there were times he and Sami shut Lucas out. Plus, Lucas had made it clear he didn't want EJ around his daughter just like EJ isn't particularly thrilled with Rafe. By the time Allie was born, they thought both twins were Lucas' so all her life he knew whose child she was. He was only around her because of her mother (because when Johnny was with him with the court order, Allie wasn't coming too) which is the only reason Rafe will be around Sydney. The situations sound pretty similar to me.
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Paxton
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Dec 29 2009, 12:34 PM
Post #144
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- IMissAremid
- Dec 29 2009, 11:32 AM
Well, this still doesn't make the way they are writing Sami make any more sense to me when (as has been a problem throughout this story) EJ was going to be in the life of her kids regardless as a father to Johnny whether Sami's big keep Sydney away from him plot was successful or not. I agree that has always been a huge logical loophole in the story. Of course, that's sort of reaping what you (the writers, not you personally) sow from a story perspective once the show decided to pretend Johnny's conception occurred under voluntary cirumcstances. The child Sami arguably SHOULD have fought tooth and nail to keep away from EJ is the one she essentially abandoned to him. But they wrote themselves into a box when they went the sweep-under-the-rug way instead of dealing with it. Plus, I will never understand why Alison's pregnancy was greenlighted to be written in. If I had the power to go back and change one thing in 2008 from a Days perspective that would be it.
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SocRMum1
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Dec 29 2009, 12:39 PM
Post #145
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.
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- Paxton
- Dec 29 2009, 12:26 PM
- SocRMum1
- Dec 29 2009, 11:38 AM
^^ I didn't say that EJ has broken with Stefano to become a better man. My point was that Sami's reasoning for hiding the truth about their daughter was the influence Stefano would have on her life. EJ has since very emphatically broken away from that influence - thus it's hypocritical, just as IMiss said, for that now to not be enough for Sami.
You didn't explicitly say EJ broke ties with Stefano to become a better man but your point, it seemed to me, was that Sami should have been satisfied that EJ was breaking ties with Stefano--that she should have been comfortable knowing her children were not susceptible to Stefano's evil influence. I have never believed that Stefano and Stefano only was the reason that Sami hid her pregnancy and child, but even if they were, the point is that EJ himself has demonstrated repeatedly that Stefano alone is not the problem. EJ is not a child who has no free will and can only do what Stefano tells him to, thus, his involvement in 2009's DiMera-orchestrated felonies gave Sami abundant reasons to be concerned about what her children will be exposed to living with EJ (and I fully agree she should be concerned about BOTH of her children with EJ). Not to mention which we, the audience, know that EJ cutting ties with Stefano really doesn't have anything to do with him realizing he needs to improve his lifestyle in order to be a better role model for his children, as evidenced by his drug lording. Believe you me, I think Sami is one major fucking hypocrite, but it isn't for the reasons you've outlined. - Quote:
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The problem with that line of thought is that Sami just said she was wrong for hiding Sydney (not Grace) during the time that Nicole had her. I'm referring to the scene that aired when EJ and Sami were looking at Sydney's baby book, and Sami took the blame for setting the plan in motion, and talked about feeling what EJ felt when he spoke of not knowing Grace. When EJ told her it was okay, she told him that it wasn't. So hiding Sydney wasn't okay when Nicole was on the run with her, but suddenly it is again now that an unknown person has her? It makes no sense.
I wouldn't say that makes no sense. People's feelings evolve as they adjust to situations, and Sami's had time since then to see EJ ranting and raving while Rafe continues to get the hero edit. Plus, is this the exchange you're talking about? Sami: I can't believe I missed all of this. I mean...just like you missed out on grace. I tried to keep you from knowing your daughter. And because of that I lost out a year of my daughter's life. I would never trade the time that I had with grace.
EJ: It's okay.
Sami: It's not okay. I remember you telling me that you didn't even know what color grace's eyes were, and you couldn't remember her sweet, little face. EJ, what if we don't get Sydney back? What if we don't get her back?
EJ: Samantha, hey, listen to me. We're going to get her back. I swear to you. We will get her back, and we're going to do it together. Together. Okay? http://tvmegasite.net/day/days/transcripts/older/2009/trans-da-11-27-09.shtmlThat doesn't strike me as much of an apology. That's pretty much Sami being upset that she's in the same position that EJ was, but it's about her feelings first and foremost. It wasn't "okay" because Sami had missed out on all of Sydney's life so far and was potentially never going to see her again. But anyway, whether you consider that a heartfelt apology or not, I don't think there's any dispute that Sami's preference would have been that she and Rafe could have just raised Sydney together, whether EJ knew about her or not. I really don't see any evidence whatsoever that Sami wishes things were different so she could have raised Sydney with EJ. So I think what we've seen is actually reasonably consistent: Sami has felt some level of guilt for dishing out to EJ what's getting dished to her, but she still wants Rafe and still wants Rafe to be Sydney's daddy. Based on Sami's repeated insistence that she did what she did because of Stefano's potential influence then I do believe EJ breaking away from him should negate that concern. Do I think EJ (or Sami, for that matter) are model parents that live pristine lifestyles? Not at all. But the Stefano factor is off the table. That was my point.
As to their conversation in the DiMansion I've never seen that as an apology from Sami but rather an acknowledgment that her poor choices had led them to the situation they were currently in. And that is true. Certainly not her choices alone - but had she told the truth from the very beginning, Nicole would likely never have had the opportunity to switch the babies to begin with. To my mind, it showed that Sami had accepted and learned from her mistakes. But having her later cry to Rafe that life could have been so perfect for them if Nicole had never switched the babies contradicts that as it's clear she would have done the same thing all over again and basically now seems to believe it's that darned Nicole's fault for messing up her grand plan.
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aimees76
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Dec 29 2009, 12:39 PM
Post #146
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- SocRMum1
- Dec 29 2009, 12:26 PM
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- Dec 28 2009, 11:58 PM
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- Dec 28 2009, 11:48 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
It's not ok for Sami to raise Sydney with Rafe as her father because he's not! I can't think of ONE instant where I would give up my flesh and blood to my ex's girlfriend to raise as her own. Could any of you? So on that basis, and on what EJ heard Sami say to Rafe about his daughter, I hope that he files for, and gets full custody of Sydney, and gives Sami and the bore just visitation rights.
Yeah well, EJ wasn't Allie's father but it was A-ok for him to love and raise her as if she was his own, and even refer to her as a Dimera, when he and Sami were playing house .... it was even oh so sweet and proof of what a wonderful father he was and how much he loved Sami, because he loved Allie as much as Johnny even though she wasn't his. It is only not ok in this case because this is EJ's kid being loved by a man that Sami loves that is not EJ. And no, I still am not a Safe fan, and never will be.
No doubt we'll always disagree on this - but there is a big difference between EJ's relationship with Allie versus Rafe and Sydney. EJ thought for much of Sami's pregnancy that Allie was his biological daughter. She is the twin sister of his biological son, thus they spent their infancy literally side by side. He spent as much time with Allie as he did with Johnny for months. And while they were in the safe house and Sami was upset about the lack of influence Lucas would have on Allie's life because he was in prison EJ explained that there was no confusion unlike what Sami went through with John and Roman. Allie would know that Lucas was her father but that didn't mean that EJ couldn't/shouldn't care about her because as he said 'there is plenty enough love to go around'. Rafe, on the other hand, has spent what? About five minutes with Sydney? Walking around stating that he loves her and intends to raise her as if she were his own is a little over the top, given the circumstances. I understand that Rafe loved Grace because he had a relationship with her. But even then, he fully supported and helped perpetrate the plan to exclude her biological father from her life. EJ has never done anything remotely close to that with Allie. I really don't see that as being any different at all. EJ was not Allie's father, but he loved her as if she was his own. Rafe is not Sydney's father, but he loves her as if she is his own. In both cases, presumably, it is because the men love(d) Sami, and therefore, her child. I am no Rafe fan, and I disagree with a lot of things he says and does, but in this case, I only see a man who loves a woman and in addition, loves her children. He was with her through most of her pregnancy, there immediately after Sydney's birth ... sure it was Grace that he bonded with, just like Sami, but he was already having protective and loving feelings for her when she was in Sami's womb, because he was falling for Sami. Rafe has spent 5 minutes with Sydney? Well so has Sami.
Look, I am obviously a Lumi fan, therefore, it pissed me off mightily when Rafe had all these scenes with Will, acting like a dad to him, because Lucas is Will's dad, and those scenes should have been with Lucas ... but if I remove my fan bias, in reality, this is how families evolve when parents don't stay together. Rafe is essentially taking on the step parent role, even though he and Sami haven't been together all that long, that is the status of their relationship at this time, and as long as Sami lets him, he is going to play the step parent role to her children, and better he love them like they are his own than be annoyed at their existence and want to ship them off to bording school or something. As far as I have seen, Rafe hasn't tried to exclude EJ from his child's life (since the Grace reveal), only Sami has expressed a desire to do so, and Rafe seems to only express a desire to support Sami in her desires and choices. Sami does not want to have to deal with EJ, and Rafe wants to make Sami happy.
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SocRMum1
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Dec 29 2009, 12:48 PM
Post #147
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.
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- lysie
- Dec 29 2009, 12:34 PM
- SocRMum1
- Dec 29 2009, 12:26 PM
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- Dec 29 2009, 12:07 PM
- daisy132
- Dec 28 2009, 11:58 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepbecause he's not! I can't think of ONE instant where I would give up my flesh and blood to my ex's girlfriend to raise as her own. Could any of you? So on that basis, and on what EJ heard Sami say to Rafe about his daughter, I hope that he files for, and gets full custody of Sydney, and gives Sami and the bore just visitation rights.
Yeah well, EJ wasn't Allie's father but it was A-ok for him to love and raise her as if she was his own, and even refer to her as a Dimera, when he and Sami were playing house .... it was even oh so sweet and proof of what a wonderful father he was and how much he loved Sami, because he loved Allie as much as Johnny even though she wasn't his. It is only not ok in this case because this is EJ's kid being loved by a man that Sami loves that is not EJ. And no, I still am not a Safe fan, and never will be.
No doubt we'll always disagree on this - but there is a big difference between EJ's relationship with Allie versus Rafe and Sydney. EJ thought for much of Sami's pregnancy that Allie was his biological daughter. She is the twin sister of his biological son, thus they spent their infancy literally side by side. He spent as much time with Allie as he did with Johnny for months. And while they were in the safe house and Sami was upset about the lack of influence Lucas would have on Allie's life because he was in prison EJ explained that there was no confusion unlike what Sami went through with John and Roman. Allie would know that Lucas was her father but that didn't mean that EJ couldn't/shouldn't care about her because as he said 'there is plenty enough love to go around'. Rafe, on the other hand, has spent what? About five minutes with Sydney? Walking around stating that he loves her and intends to raise her as if she were his own is a little over the top, given the circumstances. I understand that Rafe loved Grace because he had a relationship with her. But even then, he fully supported and helped perpetrate the plan to exclude her biological father from her life. EJ has never done anything remotely close to that with Allie.
I think it's pretty similar. He doesn't give a crap about Allie now, but when he did he was all "I'll love her as my own" just like Rafe is. EJ had been involved in plots to kill Lucas and various other members of Sami's family and had threatened Sami's other child which IMO is worse than what Rafe did (Sami allowed Rafe to do what he did). And once Lucas got out jail, there were times he and Sami shut Lucas out. Plus, Lucas had made it clear he didn't want EJ around his daughter just like EJ isn't particularly thrilled with Rafe. By the time Allie was born, they thought both twins were Lucas' so all her life he knew whose child she was. He was only around her because of her mother (because when Johnny was with him with the court order, Allie wasn't coming too) which is the only reason Rafe will be around Sydney. The situations sound pretty similar to me. I remember very clearly that EJ defended Lucas' rights to spending time with Allie despite Sami's protests. In fact, it was EJ that tried to stop Sami from interfering when Lucas took Allie to the Horton cabin. I don't recall him shutting Lucas out, at all. The fact that Allie preferred EJ initially when Lucas returned from jail wasn't EJ's fault - Lucas' actions created that separation. But once Lucas was home EJ stepped aside as much as possible considering the twins were still babies. And Sami allowed EJ to have such an active role in Allie's life, as well. And I don't know that I'd say EJ doesn't give a crap about Allie now. Just the other day when he took Christmas gifts over to Sami's townhouse for Johnny he mentioned he had as many for his sister. I took that to mean Allie as I doubt he'd have thought Johnny and Sydney would be fighting over gifts. When Sami came home from WP EJ went to see her at the townhouse and clearly had a great relationship with both twins - helping to tuck them in, etc. They don't show either Lucas or EJ spending much time, if any, with the other twin but they have established that both seem to have a good relationship with them. (Lucas babysitting the twins a week or so, for example.)
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six
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Dec 29 2009, 12:51 PM
Post #148
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- Paxton
- Dec 29 2009, 12:26 PM
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The problem with that line of thought is that Sami just said she was wrong for hiding Sydney (not Grace) during the time that Nicole had her. I'm referring to the scene that aired when EJ and Sami were looking at Sydney's baby book, and Sami took the blame for setting the plan in motion, and talked about feeling what EJ felt when he spoke of not knowing Grace. When EJ told her it was okay, she told him that it wasn't. So hiding Sydney wasn't okay when Nicole was on the run with her, but suddenly it is again now that an unknown person has her? It makes no sense.
I wouldn't say that makes no sense. People's feelings evolve as they adjust to situations, and Sami's had time since then to see EJ ranting and raving while Rafe continues to get the hero edit. Plus, is this the exchange you're talking about? Sami: I can't believe I missed all of this. I mean...just like you missed out on grace. I tried to keep you from knowing your daughter. And because of that I lost out a year of my daughter's life. I would never trade the time that I had with grace.
EJ: It's okay.
Sami: It's not okay. I remember you telling me that you didn't even know what color grace's eyes were, and you couldn't remember her sweet, little face. EJ, what if we don't get Sydney back? What if we don't get her back?
EJ: Samantha, hey, listen to me. We're going to get her back. I swear to you. We will get her back, and we're going to do it together. Together. Okay? http://tvmegasite.net/day/days/transcripts/older/2009/trans-da-11-27-09.shtmlThat doesn't strike me as much of an apology. That's pretty much Sami being upset that she's in the same position that EJ was, but it's about her feelings first and foremost. It wasn't "okay" because Sami had missed out on all of Sydney's life so far and was potentially never going to see her again. But anyway, whether you consider that a heartfelt apology or not, I don't think there's any dispute that Sami's preference would have been that she and Rafe could have just raised Sydney together, whether EJ knew about her or not. I really don't see any evidence whatsoever that Sami wishes things were different so she could have raised Sydney with EJ. So I think what we've seen is actually reasonably consistent: Sami has felt some level of guilt for dishing out to EJ what's getting dished to her, but she still wants Rafe and still wants Rafe to be Sydney's daddy. To me that scene showed regret for her actions. She'd already done the heartfelt apology, and it wasn't needed again. If you're regretting your actions, you feel that you shouldn't have done what ever it is you did, in my view, anyway, so at that point it seemed to me that she realized it was wrong to attempt to cut EJ out of Sydney's life. Sitting and crying will "we" ever get her back if she was secretly wishing EJ never had her in the first place would be delusional, although that's what she did. Still wanting Rafe is a separate piece of the puzzle.
Edited by six, Dec 29 2009, 01:07 PM.
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Liz<3Days
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Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM
Post #149
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I believe that this whole debate on the role of Rafe in Sami's children lives is just about who youre rooting for in the situation. If you root for EJ, then of course, you are going to see Rafe as being the one crossing the line. But not so long ago EJ was in the same position with Lucas, yet, some people tend to forget that. Now Rafe is the apple of Sami's eye, and it'll be his turn to be criticized for having a role in Sami's kids lives.
SaMEEEEE's act of contrition is hollow at best because she only apologized because her actions were the one that was a catalyst for the position that theyre in now. She doesnt see past what this is doing to HER. The only true selfless act that shes demonstrated in this SL was to have Nicole hold Sydney when she was being arrested. That act didnt benefit her, yet she decided it was the right thing to do.
Every one act/apology she's said/done is to ease her guilt in this story, never for compassion from the other people involved. I dont even think she's thinking about Rafe. She automatically puts him in this role of step-daddy totally assuming he's ok with everything. Rafe may have agreed to it, but at that point, where she brought out her crocodile tears, what man in love with a woman, wouldnt say yes, just to stop her from crying.
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Sugarfire
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Dec 29 2009, 03:42 PM
Post #150
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- SocRMum1
- Dec 29 2009, 12:39 PM
- Paxton
- Dec 29 2009, 12:26 PM
- SocRMum1
- Dec 29 2009, 11:38 AM
^^ I didn't say that EJ has broken with Stefano to become a better man. My point was that Sami's reasoning for hiding the truth about their daughter was the influence Stefano would have on her life. EJ has since very emphatically broken away from that influence - thus it's hypocritical, just as IMiss said, for that now to not be enough for Sami.
You didn't explicitly say EJ broke ties with Stefano to become a better man but your point, it seemed to me, was that Sami should have been satisfied that EJ was breaking ties with Stefano--that she should have been comfortable knowing her children were not susceptible to Stefano's evil influence. I have never believed that Stefano and Stefano only was the reason that Sami hid her pregnancy and child, but even if they were, the point is that EJ himself has demonstrated repeatedly that Stefano alone is not the problem. EJ is not a child who has no free will and can only do what Stefano tells him to, thus, his involvement in 2009's DiMera-orchestrated felonies gave Sami abundant reasons to be concerned about what her children will be exposed to living with EJ (and I fully agree she should be concerned about BOTH of her children with EJ). Not to mention which we, the audience, know that EJ cutting ties with Stefano really doesn't have anything to do with him realizing he needs to improve his lifestyle in order to be a better role model for his children, as evidenced by his drug lording. Believe you me, I think Sami is one major fucking hypocrite, but it isn't for the reasons you've outlined. - Quote:
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The problem with that line of thought is that Sami just said she was wrong for hiding Sydney (not Grace) during the time that Nicole had her. I'm referring to the scene that aired when EJ and Sami were looking at Sydney's baby book, and Sami took the blame for setting the plan in motion, and talked about feeling what EJ felt when he spoke of not knowing Grace. When EJ told her it was okay, she told him that it wasn't. So hiding Sydney wasn't okay when Nicole was on the run with her, but suddenly it is again now that an unknown person has her? It makes no sense.
I wouldn't say that makes no sense. People's feelings evolve as they adjust to situations, and Sami's had time since then to see EJ ranting and raving while Rafe continues to get the hero edit. Plus, is this the exchange you're talking about? Sami: I can't believe I missed all of this. I mean...just like you missed out on grace. I tried to keep you from knowing your daughter. And because of that I lost out a year of my daughter's life. I would never trade the time that I had with grace.
EJ: It's okay.
Sami: It's not okay. I remember you telling me that you didn't even know what color grace's eyes were, and you couldn't remember her sweet, little face. EJ, what if we don't get Sydney back? What if we don't get her back?
EJ: Samantha, hey, listen to me. We're going to get her back. I swear to you. We will get her back, and we're going to do it together. Together. Okay? http://tvmegasite.net/day/days/transcripts/older/2009/trans-da-11-27-09.shtmlThat doesn't strike me as much of an apology. That's pretty much Sami being upset that she's in the same position that EJ was, but it's about her feelings first and foremost. It wasn't "okay" because Sami had missed out on all of Sydney's life so far and was potentially never going to see her again. But anyway, whether you consider that a heartfelt apology or not, I don't think there's any dispute that Sami's preference would have been that she and Rafe could have just raised Sydney together, whether EJ knew about her or not. I really don't see any evidence whatsoever that Sami wishes things were different so she could have raised Sydney with EJ. So I think what we've seen is actually reasonably consistent: Sami has felt some level of guilt for dishing out to EJ what's getting dished to her, but she still wants Rafe and still wants Rafe to be Sydney's daddy.
Based on Sami's repeated insistence that she did what she did because of Stefano's potential influence then I do believe EJ breaking away from him should negate that concern. Do I think EJ (or Sami, for that matter) are model parents that live pristine lifestyles? Not at all. But the Stefano factor is off the table. That was my point. As to their conversation in the DiMansion I've never seen that as an apology from Sami but rather an acknowledgment that her poor choices had led them to the situation they were currently in. And that is true. Certainly not her choices alone - but had she told the truth from the very beginning, Nicole would likely never have had the opportunity to switch the babies to begin with. To my mind, it showed that Sami had accepted and learned from her mistakes. But having her later cry to Rafe that life could have been so perfect for them if Nicole had never switched the babies contradicts that as it's clear she would have done the same thing all over again and basically now seems to believe it's that darned Nicole's fault for messing up her grand plan. This comment that Sami made on the docs to Rafe with EJ listening in was totally bizarre. She always said she was protecting her child from Stefano....not EJ. I relize EJ fell off the path while with Nicole but I mean come on. He is great with Johnny and he even said he was disowning Stefano. So why say it would have been perfect if Nicole hadn't messed it up . That also kinda screws with Grace's Memory too.
I think the writers just need to take a step back and think before they write! They keep having her recant/say opposite of what she originally states. I dont think they even know where they are going with this which sucks.
:shrug:
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Alligato
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Dec 29 2009, 03:49 PM
Post #151
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- IMissAremid
- Dec 29 2009, 04:57 AM
- Alligato
- Dec 29 2009, 12:19 AM
Sami has done nothing wrong.
Alligato... defending Sami? Does.Not.Compute. ;) LOL! It hurts me to do it, and I probably won't do it ever again! LOL!
Sami has been a hypocrite since day one! Especially in this baby story line, especially in regards to Nicole and EJ! I guess my issue is that I don't know why now fans are seeing Sami as a hypocrite. This is nothing new.
And I don't blame Rafe in much of this...not even the Grace adoption. If I remember correctly, Rafe did all he could to convince Sami to tell EJ in Witless Protection, and Sami refused spewing all of this hypocritical crap about how totally evil Nicole was and the damned Dimera family. No wonder the dude worried about the baby's safety and wanted to help protect her. That was all from Sami, and maybe even Rafe worred that Sami would get caught by the scary EJ and Stefano and be punished. Little did he know that EJ would brush it all off like lint on his tweed coat.
Shit! I am defending Rafe too! WTH is wrong with me!? LOL!
Great thread...very interesting. Excellent posts, Pax...sometimes you and I think very much alike...not so much on Philanie though. ;)
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SoapGal1
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Dec 29 2009, 04:05 PM
Post #152
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- Alligato
- Dec 29 2009, 03:49 PM
- IMissAremid
- Dec 29 2009, 04:57 AM
- Alligato
- Dec 29 2009, 12:19 AM
Sami has done nothing wrong.
Alligato... defending Sami? Does.Not.Compute. ;)
LOL! It hurts me to do it, and I probably won't do it ever again! LOL! Sami has been a hypocrite since day one! Especially in this baby story line, especially in regards to Nicole and EJ! I guess my issue is that I don't know why now fans are seeing Sami as a hypocrite. This is nothing new. And I don't blame Rafe in much of this...not even the Grace adoption. If I remember correctly, Rafe did all he could to convince Sami to tell EJ in Witless Protection, and Sami refused spewing all of this hypocritical crap about how totally evil Nicole was and the damned Dimera family. No wonder the dude worried about the baby's safety and wanted to help protect her. That was all from Sami, and maybe even Rafe worred that Sami would get caught by the scary EJ and Stefano and be punished. Little did he know that EJ would brush it all off like lint on his tweed coat. Shit! I am defending Rafe too! WTH is wrong with me!? LOL! Great thread...very interesting. Excellent posts, Pax...sometimes you and I think very much alike...not so much on Philanie though. ;) First Sami, now Rafe???
What's next...? That you've found your love for all things Melanie???
Worlds are colliding.
Stop the rollercoaster, I want to get off.
:P
Edited to add: Just read the other thread and we agree about the Barly/Hope situation...............I'm going to buy a lottery ticket!! :P
Edited by SoapGal1, Dec 29 2009, 04:07 PM.
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lysie
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Dec 29 2009, 04:15 PM
Post #153
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- Sugarfire
- Dec 29 2009, 03:42 PM
- SocRMum1
- Dec 29 2009, 12:39 PM
- Paxton
- Dec 29 2009, 12:26 PM
- SocRMum1
- Dec 29 2009, 11:38 AM
^^ I didn't say that EJ has broken with Stefano to become a better man. My point was that Sami's reasoning for hiding the truth about their daughter was the influence Stefano would have on her life. EJ has since very emphatically broken away from that influence - thus it's hypocritical, just as IMiss said, for that now to not be enough for Sami.
You didn't explicitly say EJ broke ties with Stefano to become a better man but your point, it seemed to me, was that Sami should have been satisfied that EJ was breaking ties with Stefano--that she should have been comfortable knowing her children were not susceptible to Stefano's evil influence. I have never believed that Stefano and Stefano only was the reason that Sami hid her pregnancy and child, but even if they were, the point is that EJ himself has demonstrated repeatedly that Stefano alone is not the problem. EJ is not a child who has no free will and can only do what Stefano tells him to, thus, his involvement in 2009's DiMera-orchestrated felonies gave Sami abundant reasons to be concerned about what her children will be exposed to living with EJ (and I fully agree she should be concerned about BOTH of her children with EJ). Not to mention which we, the audience, know that EJ cutting ties with Stefano really doesn't have anything to do with him realizing he needs to improve his lifestyle in order to be a better role model for his children, as evidenced by his drug lording. Believe you me, I think Sami is one major fucking hypocrite, but it isn't for the reasons you've outlined. - Quote:
-
The problem with that line of thought is that Sami just said she was wrong for hiding Sydney (not Grace) during the time that Nicole had her. I'm referring to the scene that aired when EJ and Sami were looking at Sydney's baby book, and Sami took the blame for setting the plan in motion, and talked about feeling what EJ felt when he spoke of not knowing Grace. When EJ told her it was okay, she told him that it wasn't. So hiding Sydney wasn't okay when Nicole was on the run with her, but suddenly it is again now that an unknown person has her? It makes no sense.
I wouldn't say that makes no sense. People's feelings evolve as they adjust to situations, and Sami's had time since then to see EJ ranting and raving while Rafe continues to get the hero edit. Plus, is this the exchange you're talking about? Sami: I can't believe I missed all of this. I mean...just like you missed out on grace. I tried to keep you from knowing your daughter. And because of that I lost out a year of my daughter's life. I would never trade the time that I had with grace.
EJ: It's okay.
Sami: It's not okay. I remember you telling me that you didn't even know what color grace's eyes were, and you couldn't remember her sweet, little face. EJ, what if we don't get Sydney back? What if we don't get her back?
EJ: Samantha, hey, listen to me. We're going to get her back. I swear to you. We will get her back, and we're going to do it together. Together. Okay? http://tvmegasite.net/day/days/transcripts/older/2009/trans-da-11-27-09.shtmlThat doesn't strike me as much of an apology. That's pretty much Sami being upset that she's in the same position that EJ was, but it's about her feelings first and foremost. It wasn't "okay" because Sami had missed out on all of Sydney's life so far and was potentially never going to see her again. But anyway, whether you consider that a heartfelt apology or not, I don't think there's any dispute that Sami's preference would have been that she and Rafe could have just raised Sydney together, whether EJ knew about her or not. I really don't see any evidence whatsoever that Sami wishes things were different so she could have raised Sydney with EJ. So I think what we've seen is actually reasonably consistent: Sami has felt some level of guilt for dishing out to EJ what's getting dished to her, but she still wants Rafe and still wants Rafe to be Sydney's daddy.
Based on Sami's repeated insistence that she did what she did because of Stefano's potential influence then I do believe EJ breaking away from him should negate that concern. Do I think EJ (or Sami, for that matter) are model parents that live pristine lifestyles? Not at all. But the Stefano factor is off the table. That was my point. As to their conversation in the DiMansion I've never seen that as an apology from Sami but rather an acknowledgment that her poor choices had led them to the situation they were currently in. And that is true. Certainly not her choices alone - but had she told the truth from the very beginning, Nicole would likely never have had the opportunity to switch the babies to begin with. To my mind, it showed that Sami had accepted and learned from her mistakes. But having her later cry to Rafe that life could have been so perfect for them if Nicole had never switched the babies contradicts that as it's clear she would have done the same thing all over again and basically now seems to believe it's that darned Nicole's fault for messing up her grand plan.
This comment that Sami made on the docs to Rafe with EJ listening in was totally bizarre. She always said she was protecting her child from Stefano....not EJ. I relize EJ fell off the path while with Nicole but I mean come on. He is great with Johnny and he even said he was disowning Stefano. So why say it would have been perfect if Nicole hadn't messed it up . That also kinda screws with Grace's Memory too. I think the writers just need to take a step back and think before they write! They keep having her recant/say opposite of what she originally states. I dont think they even know where they are going with this which sucks. :shrug: He's said it, but he hasn't done it. He still lives with him.
Alligato, ICAM.
And Liz<3Days I tend to agree with your reasoning for the debate over who is crossing the line when, except that you have people like me who aren't rooting for anyone.
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Liz<3Days
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Dec 29 2009, 04:54 PM
Post #154
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^They can all take a jump from a cliff for all I care at this point! LOL
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ladyofthelake
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Dec 29 2009, 04:59 PM
Post #155
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- Alligato
- Dec 29 2009, 03:49 PM
- IMissAremid
- Dec 29 2009, 04:57 AM
- Alligato
- Dec 29 2009, 12:19 AM
Sami has done nothing wrong.
Alligato... defending Sami? Does.Not.Compute. ;)
LOL! It hurts me to do it, and I probably won't do it ever again! LOL! Sami has been a hypocrite since day one! Especially in this baby story line, especially in regards to Nicole and EJ! I guess my issue is that I don't know why now fans are seeing Sami as a hypocrite. This is nothing new. And I don't blame Rafe in much of this...not even the Grace adoption. If I remember correctly, Rafe did all he could to convince Sami to tell EJ in Witless Protection, and Sami refused spewing all of this hypocritical crap about how totally evil Nicole was and the damned Dimera family. No wonder the dude worried about the baby's safety and wanted to help protect her. That was all from Sami, and maybe even Rafe worred that Sami would get caught by the scary EJ and Stefano and be punished. Little did he know that EJ would brush it all off like lint on his tweed coat. Shit! I am defending Rafe too! WTH is wrong with me!? LOL! Great thread...very interesting. Excellent posts, Pax...sometimes you and I think very much alike...not so much on Philanie though. ;) Alligato, what I love about you is that you're fair, and you're willing to look at all sides and not attack a character no matter what. I admire that in a poster! It takes a strong person to say something good about a character she doesn't like, LOL. :smooch:
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six
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Dec 29 2009, 05:20 PM
Post #156
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- Liz<3Days
- Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM
I believe that this whole debate on the role of Rafe in Sami's children lives is just about who youre rooting for in the situation. If you root for EJ, then of course, you are going to see Rafe as being the one crossing the line. But not so long ago EJ was in the same position with Lucas, yet, some people tend to forget that. Now Rafe is the apple of Sami's eye, and it'll be his turn to be criticized for having a role in Sami's kids lives.
I still see the situations as different. If Lucas or EJ had joined Sami in her crusade to get full custody of Allie or Sydney, they'd have gotten what was coming to them when someone did it to them, but they didn't. That was all Sami, and they refused to play her games. The same can't be said about Rafe.
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Liz<3Days
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Dec 29 2009, 05:28 PM
Post #157
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Now Rafe hasnt been dumped by Sami yet. He's still the one for her (just like every other man.) Now, when another suitor comes for Sami and she has yet another kid (this times its Rafes) then the SAFE fans can recycle the same argument and the nu-loser guy (cause he doesnt know what hes getting into..LOL) and Sam fans can defend him!
With Sami its always "you're my soulmate....until the next guy comes along!"
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ladyofthelake
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Dec 29 2009, 07:56 PM
Post #158
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- Liz<3Days
- Dec 29 2009, 05:28 PM
With Sami its always "you're my soulmate....until the next guy comes along!"
That drives me crazy. The other phrases that drive me nuts are "One true love", "meant to be", "destiny"...Marlena used those, too, I think, but at least she finally settled on John. how many soulmates has Sami vacilliated between? Austin Lucas Brandon Rafe EJ Did I miss anyone?
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Paxton
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Dec 29 2009, 11:25 PM
Post #159
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- ladyofthelake
- Dec 29 2009, 07:56 PM
- Liz<3Days
- Dec 29 2009, 05:28 PM
With Sami its always "you're my soulmate....until the next guy comes along!"
That drives me crazy. The other phrases that drive me nuts are "One true love", "meant to be", "destiny"...Marlena used those, too, I think, but at least she finally settled on John. how many soulmates has Sami vacilliated between? Austin Lucas Brandon Rafe EJ Did I miss anyone? I don't know that EJ belongs on that list since I don't think Sami ever called him her soulmate or indeed even told him she was in love with him, as opposed to everyone else who couldn't get away from Sami when she had her sights set on him. I must have been on a show break during Brandon's run since I remember him but only very, very vaguely so I'm not sure how reciprocal their relationship was. I also very vaguely remember Franco but he was just using her, right? I don't remember how that relationship came about.
I admit it does bug me when the phrase "I've never felt like this about anyone before" is bandied about. That's such a Days cliche and it's so meaningless. I mean, it isn't necessarily even a compliment yet it's always treated like one.
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lazydazes
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Dec 29 2009, 11:30 PM
Post #160
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- Quote:
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That drives me crazy. The other phrases that drive me nuts are "One true love", "meant to be", "destiny"...Marlena used those, too, I think, but at least she finally settled on John. how many soulmates has Sami vacilliated between? Austin Lucas Brandon Rafe EJ Did I miss anyone?
I'm sure that Samantha's list will continue to get longer. A good year and Sami is moving on to greener pastures. If you think about all these guys, a "baby storyline" is always the central theme for her. Will was the miracle child when she was waffling between Lucas/Austin with a little Brandon thrown in there. Next, we have the Johnny/Allie saga with Lucas/EJ. Now, we have Rafe/EJ in the midst of a saga with little Sydney. I'm sure another gentleman is going to charge in on his white horse and win Sami's love while she gives birth to another baby. Heck, this time it might even be triplets. I wouldn't be surprised one bit. There is definitely a pattern here with Sami and these baby storylines. Do the writers not think that Sami is incapable of anything other than baby drama? Apparently so.
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