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SOD: 2010 Preview!; January 5th issue
Topic Started: Dec 22 2009, 08:48 PM (15,701 Views)
PhoenixRising05
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lysie
Dec 23 2009, 02:16 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 01:09 PM
Sam09
Dec 23 2009, 08:14 AM
AlisonLou
Dec 23 2009, 07:04 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
J/M ending, i.e. broken up for a long time and ONLY brought back together to EXIT. People swore DAYS would never survive without J/M. Guess what. It has.
In fact, DAYS has survived the loss of every supercouple at some time or the other. DAYS did quite well when Hope was "dead" and Bo was with Carly. It's pretty clear that even 16 years later there is a substantial fan base that LOVED Bo and Carly.

Peter, Kristian, Crystal and most actors PREFER to work, to get good stories than to be a boring duo stuck in a bubble so that a few fans won't get upset. I do believe the insistence of certain fan bases to not DARE allow supercouple actors to move outside the box is the reason why so many of them are without jobs. ACTORS matter more than fictional characters for many of us. I am sick and tired of my favorites being stuck to appease a minority of fans. I am so glad DAYS is finally recognizing this and getting rid of the supercouple silliness. It's over. It's so over/
I agree completely.

I think the concept was dead once the 80's ended. GH even knew to abandon it. Supercouples compromise your show in the long run. It's all fine and good when the couples start out and go through early trials and tribulations. It's even fine after they get married for the first few years but once you establish the feeling that no matter what that couple is going to be together, what incentive do you give the masses to watch? Maybe the die-hard fans of the show or the couple fans tune in but how much of the show's viewing audience that is counted in the ratings do they encompass? People like to point to the 90's but I think it's safe to say a big part of JER's success in the 90's was the stories and the fact that you still felt some suspense in whether or not certain couples would actually get together. There is none of that this decade. It got to the point where I'm sure some fans checked out the show and said "Why bother?" You already know the end result (and not just because Corday opened his mouth LOL) and that isn't good drama or storytelling. How do you sell that kind of stuff to general and new viewers? I think that is the biggest reason behind Days' surge. You have a bunch of couples now that are just starting out and also that you don't know for sure will make it. Now people will tune in to see if they do. That is why I feel you have to give Bo and Carly a chance because that helps make Bo and Hope more viable. Whether you reunite them or not, you get viewers to invest because the outcome is a bit more in doubt and that is the key to getting people to tune in day after day.

As for PR and KA, they both have mentioned in the past that they did not get along initially but I don't remember it being about her weight. In fact, I seem to remember (could be wrong on this) that they started to get past their differences while she was pregnant with her first child.
I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is that they instead of finding something different for the characters to do, they keep putting them in stories that involve relationship trouble. So, yes. That gets old. But everything doesn't have to lead to a break-up/divorce. For one, we're lead to believe they have such strong bonds, so it's not very believable that they'd break up over sometimes very trivial things. And also, it's repetitive. Illness stories could work, but when they do them they don't last long. Children drama could work, but when they do that they immediately take it to the break-up/divorce route. Married couples do have drama that doesn't necessarily included interlopers.
Yeah but does the general audience want to watch other marital problems? Ask people why they tune into a soap and I doubt it would be because of things like that. They watch for romance, adventure, lies, secrets...DRAMA. Would I like to see soaps explore deeper things? Sure but I think it's obvious that gets you nowhere with a bulk of the audience.

Not to mention, what haven't Bo and Hope been through? They had an illness story. They've had countless adventure and kidnapping stories. They had a child die. They've had infidelity. What else is there? The same goes for J&M too. Steve and Kayla were really the only couple they had room to do alot with because they were gone for so long. The problem is the show kept the "destined couples" crap going for far too long and what that means is that it makes it hard to ever invest in a couple like Bo and Carly because you fear it's nothing but a bump along the BOPE road. However, the one thing that needs to be pointed out is that it's likely Days' ratings surge was mostly due to a general/new audience who will be ok with a Bo and Carly pairing and probably doesn't give two shits about Bo and Hope.
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PhoenixRising05
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madelinehawaii
Dec 23 2009, 02:18 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:05 PM
So unresolved issues having to do with the recent kidnapping of their child, the death of their child and how Bo lied about it as well as the whole Patrick saga, and whatever other crap Bo and Hope have been through in their last two decades together is not enough?

This should've happened EONS ago.

and that is exactly the problem. They're fighting over things that they would have EONS ago. Now they're in their 40s with a grown child and they're STILL fighting over the same stupid shit. No forty year old couple I know (whose marriage isn't disintegrating just because they stayed together simply to raise their kids) fights over the same stuff they did when they were in their 20s. They've matured and moved on to new arguments lol And there is never a shortage of those, which is why I don't have a problem with Bope breaking up but the way they're doing it is a joke
So, let's not draw on the past to further new story? How many times do we see people on this board complain about writers not using history and now they use it and it's not acceptable? Yeah...ok LOL.

The writers dropped the ball each and every time in the past by not fully dealing with their problems. Now, this regime is taking advantage of that to craft this story and that is GOOD writing.
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PhoenixRising05
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Kenny
Dec 23 2009, 02:20 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:05 PM
So unresolved issues having to do with the recent kidnapping of their child, the death of their child and how Bo lied about it as well as the whole Patrick saga, and whatever other crap Bo and Hope have been through in their last two decades together is not enough?

This should've happened EONS ago. The writers have perfectly crafted this. They've even had Bo and Hope acknowledge how they just put aside their differences over the years for whatever reason (family, etc) rather then properly resolving them.
So basically the writers said, "Hey... rather than coming up with a new conflict to threaten Bope's marriage, let's just dwell on the past and dredge up old shit for them to fight over/misunderstand each other/be paranoid over so Bo has a reason to fuck Billie -- er, Carly." Exciting! LoL.

Like I said in my post above, it might be realistic for Bo and Hope to fight over past issues like this because that's what real couples do, but for a soap opera it doesn't feel weighty enough. Not to me anyway -- and not for THIS couple. As for the kidnapping aftermath, maybe I would care more about it if I cared about the kidnapping itself, LoL. I dunno. There's something about this whole thing that I'm just not buying. It feels so lightweight and fluffy. There's not enough impact. To me, it feels like Bo and Hope have made a mountain out of a molehill. How many silly misunderstandings and misinterpretations can they bicker over and blow up into a huge issue before they finally get to the heart of the issue and move the fuck on? It's tedious!

Anyway, I do love Bo's scenes with Carly and I think he has an electric chemistry with Crystal Chappell, but the way Bo and Hope are being written just makes me want to turn the TV off. I'm pretty sure that's not what the writers intended, so something needs to change.
Obviously, not everyone is going to buy it or like it. Afterall, this is the same show that has shoved the "destined lovers" garbage down fans' throats for twenty years or more all while sacrificing good potential character-driven stories in the process.

This is a realistic marriage breakup with added in soap cliches to make it suitable for a soap. This is how arguments actually are for married couples. They are silly misunderstandings that could be solved by simply being willing to compromise or listen.

The show doesn't have to change a thing. The ratings are up. I've seen many positive reviews of this story. Is their concern with Bo and Carly having sex? Definitely and that could hinder this story if not done right but we won't know until that plays out if it will hurt things or not.

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Harmony233


I wish Carly would just stay away from Bo at this point.I get that the girl is lonely and Bo is the only person who has been nice to her.Heck she enjoys listening to Mia something must be wrong with her lol.Shes only setting herself up for a fall.
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lysie


PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:22 PM
lysie
Dec 23 2009, 02:16 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 01:09 PM
Sam09
Dec 23 2009, 08:14 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I agree completely.

I think the concept was dead once the 80's ended. GH even knew to abandon it. Supercouples compromise your show in the long run. It's all fine and good when the couples start out and go through early trials and tribulations. It's even fine after they get married for the first few years but once you establish the feeling that no matter what that couple is going to be together, what incentive do you give the masses to watch? Maybe the die-hard fans of the show or the couple fans tune in but how much of the show's viewing audience that is counted in the ratings do they encompass? People like to point to the 90's but I think it's safe to say a big part of JER's success in the 90's was the stories and the fact that you still felt some suspense in whether or not certain couples would actually get together. There is none of that this decade. It got to the point where I'm sure some fans checked out the show and said "Why bother?" You already know the end result (and not just because Corday opened his mouth LOL) and that isn't good drama or storytelling. How do you sell that kind of stuff to general and new viewers? I think that is the biggest reason behind Days' surge. You have a bunch of couples now that are just starting out and also that you don't know for sure will make it. Now people will tune in to see if they do. That is why I feel you have to give Bo and Carly a chance because that helps make Bo and Hope more viable. Whether you reunite them or not, you get viewers to invest because the outcome is a bit more in doubt and that is the key to getting people to tune in day after day.

As for PR and KA, they both have mentioned in the past that they did not get along initially but I don't remember it being about her weight. In fact, I seem to remember (could be wrong on this) that they started to get past their differences while she was pregnant with her first child.
I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is that they instead of finding something different for the characters to do, they keep putting them in stories that involve relationship trouble. So, yes. That gets old. But everything doesn't have to lead to a break-up/divorce. For one, we're lead to believe they have such strong bonds, so it's not very believable that they'd break up over sometimes very trivial things. And also, it's repetitive. Illness stories could work, but when they do them they don't last long. Children drama could work, but when they do that they immediately take it to the break-up/divorce route. Married couples do have drama that doesn't necessarily included interlopers.
Yeah but does the general audience want to watch other marital problems? Ask people why they tune into a soap and I doubt it would be because of things like that. They watch for romance, adventure, lies, secrets...DRAMA. Would I like to see soaps explore deeper things? Sure but I think it's obvious that gets you nowhere with a bulk of the audience.

Not to mention, what haven't Bo and Hope been through? They had an illness story. They've had countless adventure and kidnapping stories. They had a child die. They've had infidelity. What else is there? The same goes for J&M too. Steve and Kayla were really the only couple they had room to do alot with because they were gone for so long. The problem is the show kept the "destined couples" crap going for far too long and what that means is that it makes it hard to ever invest in a couple like Bo and Carly because you fear it's nothing but a bump along the BOPE road. However, the one thing that needs to be pointed out is that it's likely Days' ratings surge was mostly due to a general/new audience who will be ok with a Bo and Carly pairing and probably doesn't give two shits about Bo and Hope.
That's why you have established couples that can go through other things like I mentioned, and you bring on new couples like you mentioned to go through the relationship crap. I know Bo and Hope have gone through that other stuff and like I said, every time they've brought it back to relationship issues. IMO, they've always screwed it up, and that's what's made a mess of the concept.
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madelinehawaii


PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:24 PM
madelinehawaii
Dec 23 2009, 02:18 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:05 PM
So unresolved issues having to do with the recent kidnapping of their child, the death of their child and how Bo lied about it as well as the whole Patrick saga, and whatever other crap Bo and Hope have been through in their last two decades together is not enough?

This should've happened EONS ago.

and that is exactly the problem. They're fighting over things that they would have EONS ago. Now they're in their 40s with a grown child and they're STILL fighting over the same stupid shit. No forty year old couple I know (whose marriage isn't disintegrating just because they stayed together simply to raise their kids) fights over the same stuff they did when they were in their 20s. They've matured and moved on to new arguments lol And there is never a shortage of those, which is why I don't have a problem with Bope breaking up but the way they're doing it is a joke
So, let's not draw on the past to further new story? How many times do we see people on this board complain about writers not using history and now they use it and it's not acceptable? Yeah...ok LOL.

The writers dropped the ball each and every time in the past by not fully dealing with their problems. Now, this regime is taking advantage of that to craft this story and that is GOOD writing.
I didn't say they shouldn't use history. I said they need to do so creatively which they are not. Bope have been married for years and the only thing they can think to use is the SAME thing every single time. I don't believe for a second this is the only issue they have between them. Both are working adults with healthy egos, especially when it comes to their jobs and fighting over Hope's jealousy is still the only problem they are allowed to have? That's silly and childish and being written for all the younger audience who TPTB are afraid won't get into a more mature storyline.


and from the feedback I've seen, I don't get the impression there are an awful lot of people agreeing with you about this being well written
Edited by madelinehawaii, Dec 23 2009, 02:31 PM.
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Kenny
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:24 PM
The writers dropped the ball each and every time in the past by not fully dealing with their problems. Now, this regime is taking advantage of that to craft this story and that is GOOD writing.
If previous writers dropped the ball... well, too bad, so sad, LoL. If we're going to open old wounds and explore some issues from the past, let's open some fun wounds. Not this boring ass shit.

To me, this whole thing feels like "second verse, same as the first." If the writers are going to pull from the past, they could at least pull some of the good stuff, LoL. Who the fuck cares about Patrick Lockhart? Or that stupid kidnapping? Or any of the other stupid shit Bope have been fighting about? I don't. (Nevermind the fact that most of those "issues" have already taken a back seat so they can bicker about Carly instead.) Between the circular arguments, the endless chirping and the insidious misunderstandings/misinterpretations, I'm ready to rip my hair out everytime Bope is on the screen.
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PhoenixRising05
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madelinehawaii
Dec 23 2009, 02:30 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:24 PM
madelinehawaii
Dec 23 2009, 02:18 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:05 PM
So unresolved issues having to do with the recent kidnapping of their child, the death of their child and how Bo lied about it as well as the whole Patrick saga, and whatever other crap Bo and Hope have been through in their last two decades together is not enough?

This should've happened EONS ago.

and that is exactly the problem. They're fighting over things that they would have EONS ago. Now they're in their 40s with a grown child and they're STILL fighting over the same stupid shit. No forty year old couple I know (whose marriage isn't disintegrating just because they stayed together simply to raise their kids) fights over the same stuff they did when they were in their 20s. They've matured and moved on to new arguments lol And there is never a shortage of those, which is why I don't have a problem with Bope breaking up but the way they're doing it is a joke
So, let's not draw on the past to further new story? How many times do we see people on this board complain about writers not using history and now they use it and it's not acceptable? Yeah...ok LOL.

The writers dropped the ball each and every time in the past by not fully dealing with their problems. Now, this regime is taking advantage of that to craft this story and that is GOOD writing.
I didn't say they shouldn't use history. I said they need to do so creatively which they are not. Bope have been married for years and the only thing they can think to use is the SAME thing every single time. I don't believe for a second this is the only issue they have between them. Both are working adults with healthy egos, especially when it comes to their jobs and fighting over Hope's jealousy is still the only problem they are allowed to have? That's silly and childish and being written for all the younger audience who TPTB are afraid won't get into a more mature storyline.
Sorry but if you think it's only younger viewers who won't tune in for a story like that your wrong.

Just look at the primetime ratings or what does good at the box office. People eat up dumbed down crap. I don't like it either. I like intelligent stories I like stories that delve into psychological issues. However, I'm know damn well that in today's age you have to make your show accessible. People will not flock to their screens to watch a married couple fight over career issues. It's just not happening. Maybe it would for Y&R but that is the lone exception.
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Kenny
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PhoenixRising05
 
Obviously, not everyone is going to buy it or like it. Afterall, this is the same show that has shoved the "destined lovers" garbage down fans' throats for twenty years or more all while sacrificing good potential character-driven stories in the process.
Which I'm sure you loved. ;)

I'm not gonna lie. I always loved Bope's "psychic connection," LoL.
Quote:
 
This is a realistic marriage breakup with added in soap cliches to make it suitable for a soap. This is how arguments actually are for married couples. They are silly misunderstandings that could be solved by simply being willing to compromise or listen.
Yep, and like I said before, I couldn't care less how "realistic" this is. Realism be damned, LoL. I'm not interested in any of these circular arguments that go nowhere as long as Bo and Hope are being like such idiotic assholes.
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lysie


I think parts of the BOPE storyline are working. It's Hope's part that isn't working for me. And it feels sometimes like it could work, like I could totally see exactly where she's coming from...and then she'll say something or act a certain way and she loses me. Regardless, I really wish they'd gone a different direction with this. This has been done so many times with this couple that I feel like I know everything both of them are going to say before they say it.
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PhoenixRising05
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Kenny
Dec 23 2009, 02:32 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:24 PM
The writers dropped the ball each and every time in the past by not fully dealing with their problems. Now, this regime is taking advantage of that to craft this story and that is GOOD writing.
If previous writers dropped the ball... well, too bad, so sad, LoL. If we're going to open old wounds and explore some issues from the past, let's open some fun wounds. Not this boring ass shit.

To me, this whole thing feels like "second verse, same as the first." If the writers are going to pull from the past, they could at least pull some of the good stuff, LoL. Who the fuck cares about Patrick Lockhart? Or that stupid kidnapping? Or any of the other stupid shit Bope have been fighting about? I don't. (Nevermind the fact that most of those "issues" have already taken a back seat so they can bicker about Carly instead.) Between the circular arguments, the endless chirping and the insidious misunderstandings/misinterpretations, I'm ready to rip my hair out everytime Bope is on the screen.
Well, those are the only issues they have to pull from LOL.

What exactly wouldn't be boring to you? I mean, how else do you break up a couple? It's either trust issues, miscommunication, or infidelity usually.

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PhoenixRising05
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Kenny
Dec 23 2009, 02:36 PM
Which I'm sure you loved. ;)

I'm not gonna lie. I always loved Bope's "psychic connection," LoL.
Quote:
 
This is a realistic marriage breakup with added in soap cliches to make it suitable for a soap. This is how arguments actually are for married couples. They are silly misunderstandings that could be solved by simply being willing to compromise or listen.
Yep, and like I said before, I couldn't care less how "realistic" this is. Realism be damned, LoL. I'm not interested in any of these circular arguments that go nowhere as long as Bo and Hope are being like such idiotic assholes.
So, your just bored with the arguments?

I can understand that. I do think the writers have done a little too much to lay out why this is happening but I would rather have too much then too little. They are playing the beats at least.

The good news is we are clearly moving to the next level of all this.
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Rick
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Dreamlander

ScorpioQueen
Dec 22 2009, 09:01 PM
I'm looking forward to Barly! :wub: :cheer:
Glad I'm not the only Barly fan. Bope have bored me for years
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Kenny
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:34 PM
People eat up dumbed down crap. I don't like it either. I like intelligent stories I like stories that delve into psychological issues. However, I'm know damn well that in today's age you have to make your show accessible. People will not flock to their screens to watch a married couple fight over career issues. It's just not happening. Maybe it would for Y&R but that is the lone exception.
It's all in the presentation.

People will watch anything as long as the story is set up well and the viewers understand/enjoy the rooting interest. A business story would be great on Days if the writers would actually commit to it. No half-assed-ness and no "running a corporation out of your living room" and no using the company only as a backdrop to more immature/dumbed down stories. I know it'll never happen though, LoL.

Anyway, Bope fighting over their careers would be fun, but I wouldn't want to see it as a full-fledged story. Zzz.
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PhoenixRising05
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Kenny
Dec 23 2009, 02:45 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:34 PM
People eat up dumbed down crap. I don't like it either. I like intelligent stories I like stories that delve into psychological issues. However, I'm know damn well that in today's age you have to make your show accessible. People will not flock to their screens to watch a married couple fight over career issues. It's just not happening. Maybe it would for Y&R but that is the lone exception.


Anyway, Bope fighting over their careers would be fun, but I wouldn't want to see it as a full-fledged story. Zzz.
And that is the point I'm trying to make to madelinehawai.

That is really the only other conflict Bope haven't really dealt with yet and I doubt alot of people would want to see a story out of it LOL.
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Kenny
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:37 PM
What exactly wouldn't be boring to you? I mean, how else do you break up a couple? It's either trust issues, miscommunication, or infidelity usually.
I gave a good example above.

Bo and Hope breaking up over the paternity reveal was good. It was weighty and it had impact. It felt worthy of causing a "supercouple" breakup. Carly coming into the picture back then would've made sense. This fluff shit we have today just isn't cutting it for me. All I hear is "yap yap yap yap yap yap yap YAP YAP YAP YAP YAP." It sooooo grates on my nerves.
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madelinehawaii


PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:34 PM
madelinehawaii
Dec 23 2009, 02:30 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:24 PM
madelinehawaii
Dec 23 2009, 02:18 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
So, let's not draw on the past to further new story? How many times do we see people on this board complain about writers not using history and now they use it and it's not acceptable? Yeah...ok LOL.

The writers dropped the ball each and every time in the past by not fully dealing with their problems. Now, this regime is taking advantage of that to craft this story and that is GOOD writing.
I didn't say they shouldn't use history. I said they need to do so creatively which they are not. Bope have been married for years and the only thing they can think to use is the SAME thing every single time. I don't believe for a second this is the only issue they have between them. Both are working adults with healthy egos, especially when it comes to their jobs and fighting over Hope's jealousy is still the only problem they are allowed to have? That's silly and childish and being written for all the younger audience who TPTB are afraid won't get into a more mature storyline.
Sorry but if you think it's only younger viewers who won't tune in for a story like that your wrong.

Just look at the primetime ratings or what does good at the box office. People eat up dumbed down crap. I don't like it either. I like intelligent stories I like stories that delve into psychological issues. However, I'm know damn well that in today's age you have to make your show accessible. People will not flock to their screens to watch a married couple fight over career issues. It's just not happening. Maybe it would for Y&R but that is the lone exception.
so you're saying that the writers cannot craft a more mature storyline appealing or riveting or exciting enough for wider audience that will bring in ratings? That they can't, for lack of a better word, fool that larger part of the audience the suits think get them the ratings into watching something that has layers? that it's not possible? I don't believe that.
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salempc
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So glad I won't have to watch any of this. The only thing that remotely interests me is Brady & Nicole and they'll ruin that in no time I 'm sure.
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Kenny
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PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:39 PM
The good news is we are clearly moving to the next level of all this.
I'm fearful of taking it to the next level when the first level was executed so shoddily. For me, the biggest factor of this whole thing is Bo and Hope's breakup. That's what will really make or break this story, IMO. If their marriage doesn't end for reasons that I buy/understand/care about, then it's always going to feel unresolved and messy to me and I won't be able to fully jump onboard the "Barly" train, LoL.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

madelinehawaii
Dec 23 2009, 02:30 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:24 PM
madelinehawaii
Dec 23 2009, 02:18 PM
PhoenixRising05
Dec 23 2009, 02:05 PM
So unresolved issues having to do with the recent kidnapping of their child, the death of their child and how Bo lied about it as well as the whole Patrick saga, and whatever other crap Bo and Hope have been through in their last two decades together is not enough?

This should've happened EONS ago.

and that is exactly the problem. They're fighting over things that they would have EONS ago. Now they're in their 40s with a grown child and they're STILL fighting over the same stupid shit. No forty year old couple I know (whose marriage isn't disintegrating just because they stayed together simply to raise their kids) fights over the same stuff they did when they were in their 20s. They've matured and moved on to new arguments lol And there is never a shortage of those, which is why I don't have a problem with Bope breaking up but the way they're doing it is a joke
So, let's not draw on the past to further new story? How many times do we see people on this board complain about writers not using history and now they use it and it's not acceptable? Yeah...ok LOL.

The writers dropped the ball each and every time in the past by not fully dealing with their problems. Now, this regime is taking advantage of that to craft this story and that is GOOD writing.
I didn't say they shouldn't use history. I said they need to do so creatively which they are not. Bope have been married for years and the only thing they can think to use is the SAME thing every single time. I don't believe for a second this is the only issue they have between them. Both are working adults with healthy egos, especially when it comes to their jobs and fighting over Hope's jealousy is still the only problem they are allowed to have? That's silly and childish and being written for all the younger audience who TPTB are afraid won't get into a more mature storyline.


and from the feedback I've seen, I don't get the impression there are an awful lot of people agreeing with you about this being well written
:rockon:

I'll just ditto this. Using history for history's sake is rather asinine. WHY recycle the same crap over and over?
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