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Weekly Discussion: 1/4-1/8
Topic Started: Jan 2 2010, 10:48 PM (23,333 Views)
PhoenixRising05
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DrewHamilton
Jan 7 2010, 04:13 PM
Body doubles aren't weird at all. Stop making excuses. The scene definitely would've been perfect if John Clarke could've returned. Since that was impossible, the next best thing would've been to have a body double. Let us just see from the chest down, or maybe a limp arm. Whatever. OLTL did it when Nigel found Asa and it made the scene so much better and more effective. I'm not saying that I'm pissed about the way the scene was handled, because I'm not, but lets not try to make up excuses just to suit the show and say that a body double would've been a bad idea. Because it wouldn't. It would've been the next best thing after not being able to get Clarke back.
It's not excuses. It's an opinion. Jane just said it would be weird and I agree. It would be awkward. The show would have to do alot to have to work around a body double. I like the way it played out. It was subtle and simple. I thought it was powerful in it's own way. Would it have been powerful to see the discovery and what happened? Sure but I actually think, in a way, it's moreso powerful having her describe it to us.. This story is being told through her perspective and having her deliver what happened to us gives the viewer a chance to live through her initial anguish with her.

Not to mention they used a body double for the scenes tomorrow. Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL. I would know he is a body double so why bother? It's the same problem the show had with Zack's death. The actor's mother would not allow her son to play out the scenes so you never saw Zack's face as another actor stepped in. It's not really a problem because the only thing the story needs is for the viewer to connect with the survivors of the deceased (Bo and Hope back then and Maggie now). Seeing Maggie holding some body double has no impact. If you can't see that the person is Mickey, it's pointless and strange and you may as well play it this way to avoid that kind of issue.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM
DrewHamilton
Jan 7 2010, 04:13 PM
Body doubles aren't weird at all. Stop making excuses. The scene definitely would've been perfect if John Clarke could've returned. Since that was impossible, the next best thing would've been to have a body double. Let us just see from the chest down, or maybe a limp arm. Whatever. OLTL did it when Nigel found Asa and it made the scene so much better and more effective. I'm not saying that I'm pissed about the way the scene was handled, because I'm not, but lets not try to make up excuses just to suit the show and say that a body double would've been a bad idea. Because it wouldn't. It would've been the next best thing after not being able to get Clarke back.
It's not excuses. It's an opinion. Jane just said it would be weird and I agree. It would be awkward. The show would have to do alot to have to work around a body double. I like the way it played out. It was subtle and simple. I thought it was powerful in it's own way. Would it have been powerful to see the discovery and what happened? Sure but I actually think, in a way, it's moreso powerful having her describe it to us.. This story is being told through her perspective and having her deliver what happened to us gives the viewer a chance to live through her initial anguish with her.

Not to mention they used a body double for the scenes tomorrow. Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL. I would know he is a body double so why bother? It's the same problem the show had with Zack's death. The actor's mother would not allow her son to play out the scenes so you never saw Zack's face as another actor stepped in. It's not really a problem because the only thing the story needs is for the viewer to connect with the survivors of the deceased (Bo and Hope back then and Maggie now). Seeing Maggie holding some body double has no impact. If you can't see that the person is Mickey, it's pointless and strange and you may as well play it this way to avoid that kind of issue.
BUT, for the average viewer who doesn't know every little intimate detail of the show, do you think that's such a big deal? I certainly didn't know it wasn't one of the triplets playing Zack, and certainly, even if I did, KA's and PR's wonderful handling of those scenes made them. I'd like to give SR some credit that she can act it out realistically, even if she was acting around a manniquin.
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Kenny
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PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM
Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL.
But it's not about seeing the body. It's about seeing Maggie's immediate reaction. THAT'S what I cared about. Body double or no, I wanted a reaction.
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Kenny
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I just watched tomorrow's episode on YouTube (thanks crazy hippie guy!) and the Carly/Vivian elevator scenes are delicious.
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six
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ladyofthelake
Jan 7 2010, 06:28 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM
DrewHamilton
Jan 7 2010, 04:13 PM
Body doubles aren't weird at all. Stop making excuses. The scene definitely would've been perfect if John Clarke could've returned. Since that was impossible, the next best thing would've been to have a body double. Let us just see from the chest down, or maybe a limp arm. Whatever. OLTL did it when Nigel found Asa and it made the scene so much better and more effective. I'm not saying that I'm pissed about the way the scene was handled, because I'm not, but lets not try to make up excuses just to suit the show and say that a body double would've been a bad idea. Because it wouldn't. It would've been the next best thing after not being able to get Clarke back.
It's not excuses. It's an opinion. Jane just said it would be weird and I agree. It would be awkward. The show would have to do alot to have to work around a body double. I like the way it played out. It was subtle and simple. I thought it was powerful in it's own way. Would it have been powerful to see the discovery and what happened? Sure but I actually think, in a way, it's moreso powerful having her describe it to us.. This story is being told through her perspective and having her deliver what happened to us gives the viewer a chance to live through her initial anguish with her.

Not to mention they used a body double for the scenes tomorrow. Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL. I would know he is a body double so why bother? It's the same problem the show had with Zack's death. The actor's mother would not allow her son to play out the scenes so you never saw Zack's face as another actor stepped in. It's not really a problem because the only thing the story needs is for the viewer to connect with the survivors of the deceased (Bo and Hope back then and Maggie now). Seeing Maggie holding some body double has no impact. If you can't see that the person is Mickey, it's pointless and strange and you may as well play it this way to avoid that kind of issue.
BUT, for the average viewer who doesn't know every little intimate detail of the show, do you think that's such a big deal? I certainly didn't know it wasn't one of the triplets playing Zack, and certainly, even if I did, KA's and PR's wonderful handling of those scenes made them. I'd like to give SR some credit that she can act it out realistically, even if she was acting around a manniquin.
I agree. I think it would have more impact with a double. I don't think the actor would matter, since you know who it's supposed to be. Knowing that the boy who was carried into the hospital wasn't one of the kids who played Zach didn't feature into it all for me.
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UKDaysFan
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Kenny
Jan 7 2010, 06:46 PM
I just watched tomorrow's episode on YouTube (thanks crazy hippie guy!) and the Carly/Vivian elevator scenes are delicious.
Lol Kenny, is he still singing in the ad breaks?
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six
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Oh, am I the only one who was incredibly uncomfortable watching wia's makeout session today? Poor kids - that had to be an awkward scene for them to shoot, and it showed. It seemed so forced. On the upside though, Maggie's house has another room! :cheer:

The Maggie/Lexie scene was weird, but it was nice to see Lexie.

Where is Stefano? You'd think he'd try to storm the courthouse.
Edited by six, Jan 7 2010, 07:05 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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ladyofthelake
Jan 7 2010, 06:28 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM
DrewHamilton
Jan 7 2010, 04:13 PM
Body doubles aren't weird at all. Stop making excuses. The scene definitely would've been perfect if John Clarke could've returned. Since that was impossible, the next best thing would've been to have a body double. Let us just see from the chest down, or maybe a limp arm. Whatever. OLTL did it when Nigel found Asa and it made the scene so much better and more effective. I'm not saying that I'm pissed about the way the scene was handled, because I'm not, but lets not try to make up excuses just to suit the show and say that a body double would've been a bad idea. Because it wouldn't. It would've been the next best thing after not being able to get Clarke back.
It's not excuses. It's an opinion. Jane just said it would be weird and I agree. It would be awkward. The show would have to do alot to have to work around a body double. I like the way it played out. It was subtle and simple. I thought it was powerful in it's own way. Would it have been powerful to see the discovery and what happened? Sure but I actually think, in a way, it's moreso powerful having her describe it to us.. This story is being told through her perspective and having her deliver what happened to us gives the viewer a chance to live through her initial anguish with her.

Not to mention they used a body double for the scenes tomorrow. Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL. I would know he is a body double so why bother? It's the same problem the show had with Zack's death. The actor's mother would not allow her son to play out the scenes so you never saw Zack's face as another actor stepped in. It's not really a problem because the only thing the story needs is for the viewer to connect with the survivors of the deceased (Bo and Hope back then and Maggie now). Seeing Maggie holding some body double has no impact. If you can't see that the person is Mickey, it's pointless and strange and you may as well play it this way to avoid that kind of issue.
BUT, for the average viewer who doesn't know every little intimate detail of the show, do you think that's such a big deal? I certainly didn't know it wasn't one of the triplets playing Zack, and certainly, even if I did, KA's and PR's wonderful handling of those scenes made them. I'd like to give SR some credit that she can act it out realistically, even if she was acting around a manniquin.
Well, the average viewer probably could care less if we get to see the discovery scene or not. Half the stuff people praise/complain about on message boards is stuff the average viewer could care less about.

My point is that if that using a body double is just unnecessary. I mean, you will know it's not him so there is no impact. If you don't show the person's face, it has little impact and I don't want to just be seeing Maggie the whole damn time. The whole scene would come off weird.

The best way would've been to do as Drew suggested and have her walk in the room and look on in horror as we see a lifeless hand on the ground. And then the next scene we get is the one we got today with her in the kitchen. That would've been fine. I could care less if we got it or not but that is the only way it would work without the awkward factor IMO.
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PhoenixRising05
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Kenny
Jan 7 2010, 06:43 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM
Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL.
But it's not about seeing the body. It's about seeing Maggie's immediate reaction. THAT'S what I cared about. Body double or no, I wanted a reaction.
Well, you did get her reaction. I think the reaction we got in the kitchen was her realizing what just happened. What we missed was her finding him on the floor and trying to help, more or less. I get what you mean. There is no perfect way to do it. It's too bad Clarke could not come back. All of this could've been played to it's fullest but they did the best job they could IMO under the circumstances.
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Miss Rhi
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Sindacco
Jan 7 2010, 09:43 AM
It's not allowed to post spoilers in this thread so please don't.
Actually as long as people remember to use spoiler tags it is.... :)

What's not allowed is backseat moderating.
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ladyofthelake
Member Avatar
Professor-in-training

PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 07:13 PM
ladyofthelake
Jan 7 2010, 06:28 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM
DrewHamilton
Jan 7 2010, 04:13 PM
Body doubles aren't weird at all. Stop making excuses. The scene definitely would've been perfect if John Clarke could've returned. Since that was impossible, the next best thing would've been to have a body double. Let us just see from the chest down, or maybe a limp arm. Whatever. OLTL did it when Nigel found Asa and it made the scene so much better and more effective. I'm not saying that I'm pissed about the way the scene was handled, because I'm not, but lets not try to make up excuses just to suit the show and say that a body double would've been a bad idea. Because it wouldn't. It would've been the next best thing after not being able to get Clarke back.
It's not excuses. It's an opinion. Jane just said it would be weird and I agree. It would be awkward. The show would have to do alot to have to work around a body double. I like the way it played out. It was subtle and simple. I thought it was powerful in it's own way. Would it have been powerful to see the discovery and what happened? Sure but I actually think, in a way, it's moreso powerful having her describe it to us.. This story is being told through her perspective and having her deliver what happened to us gives the viewer a chance to live through her initial anguish with her.

Not to mention they used a body double for the scenes tomorrow. Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL. I would know he is a body double so why bother? It's the same problem the show had with Zack's death. The actor's mother would not allow her son to play out the scenes so you never saw Zack's face as another actor stepped in. It's not really a problem because the only thing the story needs is for the viewer to connect with the survivors of the deceased (Bo and Hope back then and Maggie now). Seeing Maggie holding some body double has no impact. If you can't see that the person is Mickey, it's pointless and strange and you may as well play it this way to avoid that kind of issue.
BUT, for the average viewer who doesn't know every little intimate detail of the show, do you think that's such a big deal? I certainly didn't know it wasn't one of the triplets playing Zack, and certainly, even if I did, KA's and PR's wonderful handling of those scenes made them. I'd like to give SR some credit that she can act it out realistically, even if she was acting around a manniquin.
Well, the average viewer probably could care less if we get to see the discovery scene or not. Half the stuff people praise/complain about on message boards is stuff the average viewer could care less about.

My point is that if that using a body double is just unnecessary. I mean, you will know it's not him so there is no impact. If you don't show the person's face, it has little impact and I don't want to just be seeing Maggie the whole damn time. The whole scene would come off weird.

The best way would've been to do as Drew suggested and have her walk in the room and look on in horror as we see a lifeless hand on the ground. And then the next scene we get is the one we got today with her in the kitchen. That would've been fine. I could care less if we got it or not but that is the only way it would work without the awkward factor IMO.
Unless the hand was dismembered, you'd need a body double, wouldn't you? ;)
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cubsgirl
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Kenny
Jan 7 2010, 06:43 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM
Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL.
But it's not about seeing the body. It's about seeing Maggie's immediate reaction. THAT'S what I cared about. Body double or no, I wanted a reaction.
I have to agree with Kenny. I felt like we were missing a moment there. A brief moment where Maggie is walking into a room thinking nothing is wrong and the shock of what she finds. Still didn't need to see a body. Simply a moment on something of the lines of "Don't forget....Oh My God!". The scene we did get was written and acted very well, but they felt like they would have fit at a later time or out of context. The scene played more like losing someone after a long illness where you knew it was going to happen or after a funeral when everyone is gone and it is the first time you are alone.
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lysie


ladyofthelake
Jan 7 2010, 07:44 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 07:13 PM
ladyofthelake
Jan 7 2010, 06:28 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
BUT, for the average viewer who doesn't know every little intimate detail of the show, do you think that's such a big deal? I certainly didn't know it wasn't one of the triplets playing Zack, and certainly, even if I did, KA's and PR's wonderful handling of those scenes made them. I'd like to give SR some credit that she can act it out realistically, even if she was acting around a manniquin.
Well, the average viewer probably could care less if we get to see the discovery scene or not. Half the stuff people praise/complain about on message boards is stuff the average viewer could care less about.

My point is that if that using a body double is just unnecessary. I mean, you will know it's not him so there is no impact. If you don't show the person's face, it has little impact and I don't want to just be seeing Maggie the whole damn time. The whole scene would come off weird.

The best way would've been to do as Drew suggested and have her walk in the room and look on in horror as we see a lifeless hand on the ground. And then the next scene we get is the one we got today with her in the kitchen. That would've been fine. I could care less if we got it or not but that is the only way it would work without the awkward factor IMO.
Unless the hand was dismembered, you'd need a body double, wouldn't you? ;)
Cause of death perhaps?
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lysie


cubsgirl
Jan 7 2010, 07:45 PM
Kenny
Jan 7 2010, 06:43 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM
Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL.
But it's not about seeing the body. It's about seeing Maggie's immediate reaction. THAT'S what I cared about. Body double or no, I wanted a reaction.
I have to agree with Kenny. I felt like we were missing a moment there. A brief moment where Maggie is walking into a room thinking nothing is wrong and the shock of what she finds. Still didn't need to see a body. Simply a moment on something of the lines of "Don't forget....Oh My God!". The scene we did get was written and acted very well, but they felt like they would have fit at a later time or out of context. The scene played more like losing someone after a long illness where you knew it was going to happen or after a funeral when everyone is gone and it is the first time you are alone.
That is what it played like. The scenes were very good, but it did feel like there was a scene missing. I kind of felt like her messing with the ring seemed a bit...premature. That made it play more like she had found out something about the marriage, or like it was after the funeral. I wouldn't expect her to do that so soon after finding him, but everyone grieves differently.
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cassie1013


Kenny
Jan 7 2010, 06:46 PM
I just watched tomorrow's episode on YouTube (thanks crazy hippie guy!) and the Carly/Vivian elevator scenes are delicious.
Is that a YouTube user?

Haven't caught up yet, but I noticed Maggie didn't have an immediate reaction to seeing or finding Mickey unconscious. I think that was sorely missing. The kitchen scene was ok, but it was unclear as to what was going on. I think they wanted to build suspense, though.
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Sindacco
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¤ Rhi ¤
Jan 7 2010, 07:34 PM
Sindacco
Jan 7 2010, 09:43 AM
It's not allowed to post spoilers in this thread so please don't.
Actually as long as people remember to use spoiler tags it is.... :)

What's not allowed is backseat moderating.
There was a post without spoiler tag or else I wouldn't have said anything.
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Red Mist
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I watched while making Rice krispy treats with the kids. So, needless to say I was not hanging on every word.

I do feel I need to share something important though. If you buy the colored marshmellows, you will not get the festive colorful Rice Krispy treats of your imagination...Instead, you will get treats that are poo-poo brown. Ugly Rice Krispy treats you would not dare share with the neighbors.

At least I can say I learned something today.


I am glad the silly trial is over. What a farce. Classic soapy nonsense.

I get a kick out of Rafe trying to be the big man on campus. lol Rafe: "Looks whose in the FBI." *Rafe points finger at self and snickers.* "I am."

Good Lord.

Ej needs to make up his mind....To tell or not to tell...

I hate Sami's hair so much right now. The day that DO is gone will be a happy day indeed. Worst ponytail braid ever!

Attack of the scarves...Now Ari and Chloe are being strangled by them.

I loved the Lexie and Maggie scene. The whole time I was listening to Maggie I was thinking how great it would be if Clark had come back to help bid farewell to the character he made great. Rogers is amazing. You know she is going to make us cry.

I am kind of enjoying Mia as a bitch. I hate Gabbie and the more Mia screws with her the more I like it. Still,I think a bread truck could do us all a favor and knock out two birds with one stone.

I am ready for new Will.

The show was ok...about as good as ugly poo-poo Rice Krispy treats.



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DrewHamilton
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PhoenixRising05
Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM
Not to mention they used a body double for the scenes tomorrow. Personally, I wouldn't want to see a death scene played out between Maggie and some random body double. I would feel no connection to it AT ALL. I would know he is a body double so why bother? It's the same problem the show had with Zack's death. The actor's mother would not allow her son to play out the scenes so you never saw Zack's face as another actor stepped in. It's not really a problem because the only thing the story needs is for the viewer to connect with the survivors of the deceased (Bo and Hope back then and Maggie now). Seeing Maggie holding some body double has no impact. If you can't see that the person is Mickey, it's pointless and strange and you may as well play it this way to avoid that kind of issue.
I'm not asking for a DEATH SCENE. I'm not asking for Maggie to be shaking the body double that's supposed to be Mickey and begging him to wake up. No. Just have her walk into the bedroom, we see "Mickey" from the chest down or something, slouched on the bed, maybe an arm just limp on the side. Maggie asks if he's sleeping when she sees that he's not responding, the look on her face would say it all. Then we would've had her walk into the kitchen and that scene at the end would've been PERFECT.
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lysie


Dragonish1
Jan 7 2010, 09:17 PM
I watched while making Rice krispy treats with the kids. So, needless to say I was not hanging on every word.

I do feel I need to share something important though. If you buy the colored marshmellows, you will not get the festive colorful Rice Krispy treats of your imagination...Instead, you will get treats that are poo-poo brown. Ugly Rice Krispy treats you would not dare share with the neighbors.

At least I can say I learned something today.


I am glad the silly trial is over. What a farce. Classic soapy nonsense.

I get a kick out of Rafe trying to be the big man on campus. lol Rafe: "Looks whose in the FBI." *Rafe points finger at self and snickers.* "I am."

Good Lord.

Ej needs to make up his mind....To tell or not to tell...

I hate Sami's hair so much right now. The day that DO is gone will be a happy day indeed. Worst ponytail braid ever!

Attack of the scarves...Now Ari and Chloe are being strangled by them.

I loved the Lexie and Maggie scene. The whole time I was listening to Maggie I was thinking how great it would be if Clark had come back to help bid farewell to the character he made great. Rogers is amazing. You know she is going to make us cry.

I am kind of enjoying Mia as a bitch. I hate Gabbie and the more Mia screws with her the more I like it. Still,I think a bread truck could do us all a favor and knock out two birds with one stone.

I am ready for new Will.

The show was ok...about as good as ugly poo-poo Rice Krispy treats.



That's good to know.
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DrewHamilton
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I'm satisified with Nicole's sentencing. Twenty years is pretty realstic for all that she's done. I'm wondering what gets her out of jail once Arianne Zucker returns from maternity leave.

I hated the way Rafe told EJ that he was back with the FBI, acting all macho and proud of himself. Um, you're an idiot! I wanted EJ to throw in a cheap shot so bad, and was disappointed when he didn't.

For the first time since she arrived in Salem, Gabi annoyed the hell out of me! Who care if Chad didn't tell her about the baby? That's not her business. That's something personal and it's not like Chad goes to every person he meets and says "Hi. I'm Chad Woods, and I had a baby, who died." WTF?! Gabi was acting a lot like her brother today and if they switch directions and start writing her that way, I'm going to have a problem. Why is it the only tolerable member of the Hernandez family is the one that's a criminal?

However, I did like Gabi calling Mia out about her feelings for both Will and Chad. I hope Mia gets neither boy.

I didn't really mind Maggie and Lexie's conversation today. They're friends, so I could see that happening. However, I got a little nausiated by the Mickey and Maggie as the perfect couple pimping. That was a little annoying. Suzanne Rogers was great in that last scene when she returned to the kitchen and just sat at the table. No words were needed. Her face said it all. I loved the way the camera angles panned up over her as well. That would've been a great way to end the show, but there are more "important stories" to deal with, I guess.

I can't wait to see what develops between EJ and Anna tomorrow.
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