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Weekly Discussion: 1/4-1/8
Topic Started: Jan 2 2010, 10:48 PM (23,344 Views)
PhoenixRising05
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Days4Life
Jan 5 2010, 10:19 PM
Matt
Jan 5 2010, 09:51 PM
My primary problem with Hope is that this is definitely NOT the Hope I grew up with. The Hope I've always known woud've chased after Bo to the ends of the earth and the only way she ever would've left him would either be as part of some self-sacrifice to protect him or because something had happened to make Hope think that Bo didn't want or love her anymore.
That's what frustrates me, too. I keep yelling at my TV in frustration because Hope is simply giving up. I don't understand why she isn't fighting for her man! She kind of addressed this in her conversation with Justin a few days ago, right before she caught Bo kissing Carly, but she didn't explain WHY she isn't willing to work things out this time. Bo--I can kind of understand why he's acting the way he is. Hope has walked out on him more than once and shown no willingness to work things out; she demands and gives ultimatums instead. And there's Carly, who right now is everything that Hope is not. I just don't understand what happened to feisty, loving Hope over the years. As someone who has watched her from the day she was born, I'm frustrated by what's happened to Hope in recent years.
I think that is why this story is so great. Hope doesn't even know why she's giving up. She doesn't even know who she is anymore. She's become something and it all started with the kidnapping and how it was dealt with. It brought out all the unresolved issues they have had and I think that is what Hope felt was the issue as to why she was giving up. The show has made it a point to constantly bring it up, especially during the Christmas episode, and that point is that Bo and Hope always seem to push aside their problems rather then deal with them for whatever reason. They did that when Hope slept with John (even if it was Gina and I wish they would utilize this plot point too but they may feel it's too far back for most of their audience for some reason). They did that with the whole Zack situation. Ciara was born and they never truly sorted out their issues. They had people telling them they belong together, they bought into it, and Ciara came and that was that. Then there are the minor issues which never get brought up that did come between them like Bo tampering with evidence for Philip, which he kept from Hope, and then the whole visions thing with Kayla that he kept from her that led to her mini-breakup (I should be happy they don't mention that trash though). They just let the issue go and act like it didn't happen instead of dealing with it. That is why I will gladly bow down to the dialogue writer who wrote that line Christmas week where Hope told Bo that she didn't want to just push aside their problems for a little while during the holidays or because their family says "they belong together." That is the problem and why things built to this point. The show has made it very obvious what the issues are and why the characters are behaving the way they are. The story is very reaction-driven and emotion-driven and that is the brilliance of it. It's not nonsense. It's internal, relatable issues.

I also want to give MAJOR kudos to whoever wrote Hope's line today referring to how she's been one part of Bo and Hope for most of her life. That line felt lifted right out of message boards. I LOVED it. She's become so identifiable with Bo that I think she feels she doesn't know who she is without him while also feeling like she doesn't know who she is with him. She's lost herself along the way and wonders if splitting up will help her find her way or if staying with him will. She is questioning whether there is more then the obvious reasons why she is not acting like herself. The show has made it no secret that she isn't herself. It's part of the story. I think what is most interesting is that this seems to be just as much about Bo and Hope questioning whether they have something worth saving after all the problems in the past and recently as it is Bo and Hope trying to find THEMSELVES individually. I've seen so much of the dialogue lately focusing on them individually and not as a couple. Who are these people? Who did they used to be? Who are they now? Why are they the way they are now? I LOVE that the show seems to have finally realized what was the biggest problem with the supercouples the past decade or so. It became more about the couple then the two characters who were part of the couple. For example, it became Bo and Hope (almost like one character in and of itself) rather then Bo AND Hope (two individuals who happen to be a couple).

I really hope they keep down this route. Even if Bo and Hope reunite, they should both still be able to have their own stories and still be identifiable on their own. I also loved Hope mentioning how it seems a part of Bo has and may always belong to Carly. That goes along with what I was saying. That is something Bo and Hope never even talked about. It makes her believe she doesn't even know him and Hope feeling so threatened and her actions as a result makes Bo question who she is while she, herself, is questioning who she is. I never expected such emotionally-rich stuff to ever rear it's head on Days again LOL. I love that it has though.

On another note, I LOVED Anna's jabs at Sami today and I couldn't agree more about the Hernandez family. I LOVE them. I think Gabi's addition has made them click. Once they find a good place for Arianna story-wise, I think they will be set, at least IMO.
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PhoenixRising05
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Matt
Jan 6 2010, 01:08 AM
A couple of really nitpick/detail things about today's ep really struck me and impressed me. First of all, they had Ari doing inventory at the Pub. Considering that it's the start of a new year, doing end of the year inventory is something that real people would actually do. It's a small detail that I'm impressed someone thought of. Second, although it wasn't addressed with dialogue, they had Rafe packing away the Christmas decorations in that big Rubbermaid container before his FBI buddy show up. It was another real-world moment that you NEVER see on a soap. Like I said, they were both pretty minor points, but the struck me as so realistic that it was unusual.
I agree.

The show has been doing little things like that since last winter although moreso lately. I've just been so impressed with the level of dialogue, details, and acting of late. It's been solid for awhile but it's so much improved now. Very engrossing. I just hope it continues. You can tell that everyone seems invested in all aspects of the show right now and that is always good. When the creative forces are having fun and into their material, it can only mean good things.
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cassie1013


Phoenix, you and I are looking at the Bope story through the same lense. I completely agree, and couldn't have said it better myself. The reason I sometimes say the break up is contrived as soaps don't usually deal with things in a realistic manner - such as post-traumatic stress disorder after a kidnapping, or something like that. The fact they are going back and looking at issues Bo and Hope have definitely had and "shoved aside" (or should we say the writers shoved aside) is a really good story - I'm enjoying it.

I'm all for the break up, because as a viewer, I'm confused as to Hope is. The show constantly defines her as a mom within "BoAndHope." Bo as a character isn't as confusing as Hope, probably because he's had other romances. I like that they're addressing Hope trying to find herself, too. The characters aren't definable independent of each other, and that became clear when they got back together in 2006. It was obviously because she was pregnant, so they just shoved everything aside...again. I remember watching them get back together, and while it was cute, there was so little substance to it, especially coming off an emotionally-heavy, dramatic event (Zack's death). It was kind of like, "Well, we're addicted to each other, and can't stay away - let's kiss and makeup on a boat!"

You mentioned John - I wasn't watching in the Summer of 08, so 20 minutes ago I just dug up the episode where NuJohn asks Hope about the sub-sex. She said she didn't remember what happened, which was a lie because she had some hot flashbacks, LOL. If John was on the show, it could probably be an "issue", but he's not...and without him present, it is a bit far back. I am curious though, why she lied - does Bo know she remembers having sex with John..and Stefano? I only flipped through the one episode on freshholygrail's account, but does anyone remember if it was brought up again?
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Sindacco
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DrewHamilton
Jan 5 2010, 11:35 PM
Is Anna broke or something? Wouldn't she have inherited Tony's money? Why does she need $5 million so badly?
What money? Tony lived on an island for 20 years.
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Alligato
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Matt
Jan 6 2010, 01:08 AM
Second, although it wasn't addressed with dialogue, they had Rafe packing away the Christmas decorations in that big Rubbermaid container before his FBI buddy show up. It was another real-world moment that you NEVER see on a soap. Like I said, they were both pretty minor points, but the struck me as so realistic that it was unusual.
I saw that too and thought it was kind of cool...he put them up, he takes them down. Another reason he is SuperRafe! The man puts up decorations! Don't let him go, Sami!!! LOL!
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Manda1


PhoenixRising05
Jan 6 2010, 02:39 AM
Matt
Jan 6 2010, 01:08 AM
A couple of really nitpick/detail things about today's ep really struck me and impressed me. First of all, they had Ari doing inventory at the Pub. Considering that it's the start of a new year, doing end of the year inventory is something that real people would actually do. It's a small detail that I'm impressed someone thought of. Second, although it wasn't addressed with dialogue, they had Rafe packing away the Christmas decorations in that big Rubbermaid container before his FBI buddy show up. It was another real-world moment that you NEVER see on a soap. Like I said, they were both pretty minor points, but the struck me as so realistic that it was unusual.
I agree.

The show has been doing little things like that since last winter although moreso lately. I've just been so impressed with the level of dialogue, details, and acting of late. It's been solid for awhile but it's so much improved now. Very engrossing. I just hope it continues. You can tell that everyone seems invested in all aspects of the show right now and that is always good. When the creative forces are having fun and into their material, it can only mean good things.
What is also impressive is that I've heard both GG, AS and MH in various interviews talk about the pace of the show and how they have to come to rehersal 'ready to tape' and often just get the one take - so it's great that these little details aren't being sacrificed for the speed in which they have to turn out the episodes.

I'm still convinced when Bo and Carly were arguing last week? and he said he forgot what he was going to say that was PR not Bo talking....but because they knew that this is a one shot deal they had to regroup and get back into the scene - it was cute.
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Halloween Family
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cassie1013
Jan 6 2010, 03:12 AM
Phoenix, you and I are looking at the Bope story through the same lense. I completely agree, and couldn't have said it better myself. The reason I sometimes say the break up is contrived as soaps don't usually deal with things in a realistic manner - such as post-traumatic stress disorder after a kidnapping, or something like that. The fact they are going back and looking at issues Bo and Hope have definitely had and "shoved aside" (or should we say the writers shoved aside) is a really good story - I'm enjoying it.

I'm all for the break up, because as a viewer, I'm confused as to Hope is. The show constantly defines her as a mom within "BoAndHope." Bo as a character isn't as confusing as Hope, probably because he's had other romances. I like that they're addressing Hope trying to find herself, too. The characters aren't definable independent of each other, and that became clear when they got back together in 2006. It was obviously because she was pregnant, so they just shoved everything aside...again. I remember watching them get back together, and while it was cute, there was so little substance to it, especially coming off an emotionally-heavy, dramatic event (Zack's death). It was kind of like, "Well, we're addicted to each other, and can't stay away - let's kiss and makeup on a boat!"

You mentioned John - I wasn't watching in the Summer of 08, so 20 minutes ago I just dug up the episode where NuJohn asks Hope about the sub-sex. She said she didn't remember what happened, which was a lie because she had some hot flashbacks, LOL. If John was on the show, it could probably be an "issue", but he's not...and without him present, it is a bit far back. I am curious though, why she lied - does Bo know she remembers having sex with John..and Stefano? I only flipped through the one episode on freshholygrail's account, but does anyone remember if it was brought up again?
This marital strife for Bope has taken extraordanary things like mind control and brought them down to earth. This is actually the most realistic portrayal I've seen in a long time. Yes, they could beef up the dialogue and give some more insight as to what is going on with Hope but the actors are conveying a lot to this story, what they don't say convey volumes. Usually Peter Reckell's jaw clenching drives me to drink but now it shows just how backed into a corner Bo is feeling and how much he is restraining himself. I have never doubted Bo loves Hope. He's frustrated as hell because everything he says is wrong and it seems like he stops himself from saying things like the kidnapping was originally motivated as payback on Hope because he doesn't want to hurt her. However, he is mad as hell. Hope's big grip is that she feels marginalized and as a result is fighting fire with fire by doing the same to Bo but in a more hurtful way. Putting myself in a the man's shoes, I would imagine when a father sees that the woman that is suppose to love him takes his own child away from him and accuses him of not having their best interest at heart, it must be a HUGE offense.

I agree about Hope and who she is, it seems like she's having a mid life crisis.

Edited by Halloween Family, Jan 6 2010, 09:54 AM.
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Halloween Family
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Matt
Jan 6 2010, 01:08 AM
A couple of really nitpick/detail things about today's ep really struck me and impressed me. First of all, they had Ari doing inventory at the Pub. Considering that it's the start of a new year, doing end of the year inventory is something that real people would actually do. It's a small detail that I'm impressed someone thought of. Second, although it wasn't addressed with dialogue, they had Rafe packing away the Christmas decorations in that big Rubbermaid container before his FBI buddy show up. It was another real-world moment that you NEVER see on a soap. Like I said, they were both pretty minor points, but the struck me as so realistic that it was unusual.
I noticed the decorations too, it was a nice touch. Sometimes the mundane is nice to see because it's so unusual for a soap.

Didn't think about the inventory too much. I was too busy thinking how dumb it is to have the SPD put a college girl drug dealer in a major operation. I semi-buy that Ari could have been a dealer in college but how did she become so big time? And it seemed weird that Roman would want his mothers bussiness involved in a major sting where children often are babysitted and now a high schooler lives.


Manda--I loved that line that Bo said about "oh I forgot!". If it was improv then all the better.
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karmakatch63


PhoenixRising05
Jan 6 2010, 02:37 AM
Days4Life
Jan 5 2010, 10:19 PM
Matt
Jan 5 2010, 09:51 PM
My primary problem with Hope is that this is definitely NOT the Hope I grew up with. The Hope I've always known woud've chased after Bo to the ends of the earth and the only way she ever would've left him would either be as part of some self-sacrifice to protect him or because something had happened to make Hope think that Bo didn't want or love her anymore.
That's what frustrates me, too. I keep yelling at my TV in frustration because Hope is simply giving up. I don't understand why she isn't fighting for her man! She kind of addressed this in her conversation with Justin a few days ago, right before she caught Bo kissing Carly, but she didn't explain WHY she isn't willing to work things out this time. Bo--I can kind of understand why he's acting the way he is. Hope has walked out on him more than once and shown no willingness to work things out; she demands and gives ultimatums instead. And there's Carly, who right now is everything that Hope is not. I just don't understand what happened to feisty, loving Hope over the years. As someone who has watched her from the day she was born, I'm frustrated by what's happened to Hope in recent years.
I think that is why this story is so great. Hope doesn't even know why she's giving up. She doesn't even know who she is anymore. She's become something and it all started with the kidnapping and how it was dealt with. It brought out all the unresolved issues they have had and I think that is what Hope felt was the issue as to why she was giving up. The show has made it a point to constantly bring it up, especially during the Christmas episode, and that point is that Bo and Hope always seem to push aside their problems rather then deal with them for whatever reason. They did that when Hope slept with John (even if it was Gina and I wish they would utilize this plot point too but they may feel it's too far back for most of their audience for some reason). They did that with the whole Zack situation. Ciara was born and they never truly sorted out their issues. They had people telling them they belong together, they bought into it, and Ciara came and that was that. Then there are the minor issues which never get brought up that did come between them like Bo tampering with evidence for Philip, which he kept from Hope, and then the whole visions thing with Kayla that he kept from her that led to her mini-breakup (I should be happy they don't mention that trash though). They just let the issue go and act like it didn't happen instead of dealing with it. That is why I will gladly bow down to the dialogue writer who wrote that line Christmas week where Hope told Bo that she didn't want to just push aside their problems for a little while during the holidays or because their family says "they belong together." That is the problem and why things built to this point. The show has made it very obvious what the issues are and why the characters are behaving the way they are. The story is very reaction-driven and emotion-driven and that is the brilliance of it. It's not nonsense. It's internal, relatable issues.

I also want to give MAJOR kudos to whoever wrote Hope's line today referring to how she's been one part of Bo and Hope for most of her life. That line felt lifted right out of message boards. I LOVED it. She's become so identifiable with Bo that I think she feels she doesn't know who she is without him while also feeling like she doesn't know who she is with him. She's lost herself along the way and wonders if splitting up will help her find her way or if staying with him will. She is questioning whether there is more then the obvious reasons why she is not acting like herself. The show has made it no secret that she isn't herself. It's part of the story. I think what is most interesting is that this seems to be just as much about Bo and Hope questioning whether they have something worth saving after all the problems in the past and recently as it is Bo and Hope trying to find THEMSELVES individually. I've seen so much of the dialogue lately focusing on them individually and not as a couple. Who are these people? Who did they used to be? Who are they now? Why are they the way they are now? I LOVE that the show seems to have finally realized what was the biggest problem with the supercouples the past decade or so. It became more about the couple then the two characters who were part of the couple. For example, it became Bo and Hope (almost like one character in and of itself) rather then Bo AND Hope (two individuals who happen to be a couple).

I really hope they keep down this route. Even if Bo and Hope reunite, they should both still be able to have their own stories and still be identifiable on their own. I also loved Hope mentioning how it seems a part of Bo has and may always belong to Carly. That goes along with what I was saying. That is something Bo and Hope never even talked about. It makes her believe she doesn't even know him and Hope feeling so threatened and her actions as a result makes Bo question who she is while she, herself, is questioning who she is. I never expected such emotionally-rich stuff to ever rear it's head on Days again LOL. I love that it has though.

On another note, I LOVED Anna's jabs at Sami today and I couldn't agree more about the Hernandez family. I LOVE them. I think Gabi's addition has made them click. Once they find a good place for Arianna story-wise, I think they will be set, at least IMO.
Wow! This is excellent and this is so on the mark of what I feel and why supercouples turn me off. The characters cease to be individuals and loss interest. This is the game DAYS has played for so long, that there were no individuals, just this supercouple myth that no matter what the couple would act a certain way. It's why their stories became so boring and repetitive and frankly quite silly.

The SHE part was always near death, mia, controlled. The HE part had to rescue her at all costs. The SHE part occasionally got to do something extreme to save him, but it was usually so contrived and out of character as to be laughable (Kayla stealing a kidney; Marlena paralyzing Stefano).

Hope has been dead or kidnapped so many times, and Bo has been blamed (or blamed himself) so many times, the couple, for me became boring. Hope was feisty in the 80s. After that, imo, Hope became Marlena. So did Kayla. They were all the same woman.

Bo, John, Steve became nothing more than macho "saving the day" guys.

The formula works when characters are young, and maybe think that this is IT. But after a lifetime, we ought to be able to see interesting characters, dealing with life's issues, that are complicated and messy.
Whether or not Bo and Hope ever are together again is not an issue for me. Whether Bo and Hope can ever be individuals who have to deal with real problems, who have feelings, beliefs, problems that individuals have is what will make them interesting.
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DrewHamilton
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Matt
Jan 6 2010, 01:08 AM
A couple of really nitpick/detail things about today's ep really struck me and impressed me. First of all, they had Ari doing inventory at the Pub. Considering that it's the start of a new year, doing end of the year inventory is something that real people would actually do. It's a small detail that I'm impressed someone thought of. Second, although it wasn't addressed with dialogue, they had Rafe packing away the Christmas decorations in that big Rubbermaid container before his FBI buddy show up. It was another real-world moment that you NEVER see on a soap. Like I said, they were both pretty minor points, but the struck me as so realistic that it was unusual.
I agree. Little stuff like that, I enjoy as well. It brings me into the story because the characters are being real.
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DrewHamilton
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Sindacco
Jan 6 2010, 04:43 AM
DrewHamilton
Jan 5 2010, 11:35 PM
Is Anna broke or something? Wouldn't she have inherited Tony's money? Why does she need $5 million so badly?
What money? Tony lived on an island for 20 years.
But when he got back, he got back into the business world. He had his advertising company, as well as having a top spot in DiMera Enterprises, whatever business they do. Plus, he has to have a hefty penny in inhertiance, no matter how much he and Stefano didn't get along. Tony should've been loaded, meaning Anna should've been set after his death.
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lysie


Okay...this is not really the right thread, but I didn't want to get the UNSORASed one too far off the...tree (?), and it does kind of fit here. Did they SORAS Sydney's age? Did Sami recently mention her turning two, because I totally missed that.
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DrewHamilton
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lysie
Jan 6 2010, 12:59 PM
Okay...this is not really the right thread, but I didn't want to get the UNSORASed one too far off the...tree (?), and it does kind of fit here. Did they SORAS Sydney's age? Did Sami recently mention her turning two, because I totally missed that.
They must have aged her a year. That's not such a big deal. The twins playing her are probably 2 anyway. I really think that it's a good idea to age soap kids 2 years for every year until 16, which is the usual age where SORASing stops and then they age like the rest of the adult characters. That way, it's not some huge jump from 4 to 16 overnight.
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Matt
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DrewHamilton
Jan 6 2010, 01:08 PM
lysie
Jan 6 2010, 12:59 PM
Okay...this is not really the right thread, but I didn't want to get the UNSORASed one too far off the...tree (?), and it does kind of fit here. Did they SORAS Sydney's age? Did Sami recently mention her turning two, because I totally missed that.
They must have aged her a year. That's not such a big deal. The twins playing her are probably 2 anyway. I really think that it's a good idea to age soap kids 2 years for every year until 16, which is the usual age where SORASing stops and then they age like the rest of the adult characters. That way, it's not some huge jump from 4 to 16 overnight.
See, I think the appropriate ratio is 15 SORAS years to every 10. It moves things along, but it's not *so* jarring as to go from 4 to 18. IMO, 15 is a good year to bring a SORASed kid back because it puts them at a good age for their own D-level stories, but also sets the stage for the next year or so to let viewers become reacquainted with their new "young adult" role before really pushing them forward at age 16-17 to 'B' and even 'A' stories.

Lord, I think about the logic behind these things way too much.
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Matt
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Geez. My new HD TV really makes me see exactly how blonde Sami is. What do you call that shade? Barbie Blonde? There are no highlights nor lowlights or texture to that shade at all. It's the exact same all-over shade as a Barbie doll. :blink:
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six
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It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few days regarding Sydney, because if
Spoiler: click to toggle
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lysie


DrewHamilton
Jan 6 2010, 01:08 PM
lysie
Jan 6 2010, 12:59 PM
Okay...this is not really the right thread, but I didn't want to get the UNSORASed one too far off the...tree (?), and it does kind of fit here. Did they SORAS Sydney's age? Did Sami recently mention her turning two, because I totally missed that.
They must have aged her a year. That's not such a big deal. The twins playing her are probably 2 anyway. I really think that it's a good idea to age soap kids 2 years for every year until 16, which is the usual age where SORASing stops and then they age like the rest of the adult characters. That way, it's not some huge jump from 4 to 16 overnight.
Not a big deal. I just missed it. I think the girls turned 1 right about the time EJ and Nicole were celbrating Sydney's 6 month birthday.
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Red Mist
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Matt
Jan 6 2010, 01:19 PM
Geez. My new HD TV really makes me see exactly how blonde Sami is. What do you call that shade? Barbie Blonde? There are no highlights nor lowlights or texture to that shade at all. It's the exact same all-over shade as a Barbie doll. :blink:
I have always called that shade Albino. IMO she looks better in a darker hue.
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lysie


Matt
Jan 6 2010, 01:19 PM
Geez. My new HD TV really makes me see exactly how blonde Sami is. What do you call that shade? Barbie Blonde? There are no highlights nor lowlights or texture to that shade at all. It's the exact same all-over shade as a Barbie doll. :blink:
It's been white for a long time, but yesterday it was straight up yellow. At least on my TV.
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lysie


six
Jan 6 2010, 01:24 PM
It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few days regarding Sydney, because if
Spoiler: click to toggle
It's seeming like he just found out and is going to use it to his advantage. But I could be basing that on red herrings.
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