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Twinkle Little Star and EJ's Motivation
Topic Started: Jan 9 2010, 04:22 PM (3,646 Views)
six
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SocRMum1
Jan 9 2010, 07:46 PM
six
Jan 9 2010, 07:40 PM
Halloween Family
Jan 9 2010, 07:22 PM
kitkat
Jan 9 2010, 06:37 PM
he's hurting people who have never hurt him.
This is one of the reservations I had/have with the mastermind scenario, not only with EJ but Anna too. It seems like he's taking a big risk (Syd) in the name of revenge (if that is what is driving this)...it feels like a Man on Fire set up.
That's my problem with it too. Also that letting Sami's imagine the worst about Sydney's fate is pretty cruel. I do agree with Socr, though that Sami's lies also hurt innocent people, which equals things out a bit. One big thing for me is that EJ is doing what Sami tried, and failed because of Nicole, to do. He's keeping Stefano out of Sydney's life. I wonder if that will be addressed, or if things will be different because while her scheme deprived EJ of the right to raise his daughter, she's the one losing out this time.
I think the difference will be that Sami never intended to allow EJ to be a part of their daughter's life, but it doesn't look to me like EJ intends to keep Sydney from Sami forever. I forget the exact dialogue but Anna made mention of Sydney deserving better from both her parents and EJ responded with something like she'll get that now. That makes me think that EJ intends to reunite Sami and Sydney at some point.
Yea, I'm looking forward to seeing exactly what his plan is, and how long he's going to drag this out. Well, tbh, not so much looking forward to it, as hoping that it'll be wrapped up soon. Sydney is adorable, and it's nice to see EJ in control again, but I'm ready to see him in a story that doesn't surround babies.

I'm with those who think it'd be a waste not to let EJ be a romantic lead, no redemption necessary. Days could have a goldmine if they'd explore a gray couple, and let them both stay strong.
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Alligato
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Just like those who thought that Nicole could never be redeemed for her actions, in the same way, EJ can never be redeemed for letting a mother grieve for a child that has been taken from her. Absolutely unforgiveable for a woman. And that is fine with me too!

I flove that EJ back to his original, sweevil ways, and to be tormenting people again even Sami. The only difference is that current Sami isn't the same as she was and with 4 kids, she really can't be anymore. She has to be a bit more domesticated.
And since they insist on making Nicole the childless woman, she can at least keep her spark and craziness and be the one that is able to handle EJ...or Brady or both.

In these circumstances, EJ and Nicole are the same...doing the same thing. Lying to get their way, scheming to get their way, and doing it all for the love of the baby. The chemistry will lie with them especially since Nicole has nothing to prove to EJ anymore.

I can't wait to see how it all plays out and how long EJ keeps this going. And maybe Ej's comment about keeping Sydney with her parents, he meant him and Nicole. Hmm....
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magicsteacher
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six
Jan 9 2010, 08:47 PM
SocRMum1
Jan 9 2010, 07:46 PM
six
Jan 9 2010, 07:40 PM
Halloween Family
Jan 9 2010, 07:22 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepMan on Fire set up.
That's my problem with it too. Also that letting Sami's imagine the worst about Sydney's fate is pretty cruel. I do agree with Socr, though that Sami's lies also hurt innocent people, which equals things out a bit. One big thing for me is that EJ is doing what Sami tried, and failed because of Nicole, to do. He's keeping Stefano out of Sydney's life. I wonder if that will be addressed, or if things will be different because while her scheme deprived EJ of the right to raise his daughter, she's the one losing out this time.
I think the difference will be that Sami never intended to allow EJ to be a part of their daughter's life, but it doesn't look to me like EJ intends to keep Sydney from Sami forever. I forget the exact dialogue but Anna made mention of Sydney deserving better from both her parents and EJ responded with something like she'll get that now. That makes me think that EJ intends to reunite Sami and Sydney at some point.
Yea, I'm looking forward to seeing exactly what his plan is, and how long he's going to drag this out. Well, tbh, not so much looking forward to it, as hoping that it'll be wrapped up soon. Sydney is adorable, and it's nice to see EJ in control again, but I'm ready to see him in a story that doesn't surround babies.

I'm with those who think it'd be a waste not to let EJ be a romantic lead, no redemption necessary. Days could have a goldmine if they'd explore a gray couple, and let them both stay strong.
I would guess it would depend on what his motivation is for the kidnapping. It it is for revenge, then he will let Sami and Sydney reunite and perhaps let her know it was him who had her all along, but if it was b/c he wants sami back and to break up Safe, then he may keep Sydney a little longer, but never let Sami know it was him. Poor anna will take the fall. He knows Sami will never forgive him for this. I think he may have some more in store for sami further down the road.
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Daytime
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As I say again, EJ is not pod EJ anymore...I see this as a win for me as a EJ fan, as a Sami fan, lord, I am hanging on by a thread. I understand they want to domesticate her, but damn, this is just too much. Sami was never meant to be a freakin Marlenacopy but it seems that is the way they want her. As much as I love Ejami, I dont want EJ anywhere near this pod. I would settle for EJ being alone stirring up all kinds of hell with everyone in Salem, including Sami. Maybe that will wake her the hell up.
Edited by Daytime, Jan 9 2010, 09:22 PM.
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Red Mist
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I guess I just assumed Ej did all this to make sure Sami could not deny him his child. It seems like he has walked up on Sami several times plotting with Rafe to keep Sydney away from him. Lord knows what they both did when they thought Grace was his. I guess I see Ej's point of view.

It did not bother me much the first time Sami kept a baby from Ej, because I totally understood why she did it. This time it seems like she is doing this to impress Rafe and make Sydney their baby alone. Sydney was raised with Ej, she knows him. He is no stranger. Heck, he knows her alot better then Sami.
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Halloween Family
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Alligato
Jan 9 2010, 09:07 PM
Just like those who thought that Nicole could never be redeemed for her actions, in the same way, EJ can never be redeemed for letting a mother grieve for a child that has been taken from her. Absolutely unforgiveable for a woman. And that is fine with me too!

I flove that EJ back to his original, sweevil ways, and to be tormenting people again even Sami. The only difference is that current Sami isn't the same as she was and with 4 kids, she really can't be anymore. She has to be a bit more domesticated.
And since they insist on making Nicole the childless woman, she can at least keep her spark and craziness and be the one that is able to handle EJ...or Brady or both.
See, I thought Nicole's love for Sydney was redeeming. Maybe she took it in a selfish direction but hey she was crazy I guess. I was looking forward to seeing how they were (but I knew they weren't) going to keep Nicole a part of Sydney's life. IMO, she didn't need to be redeemed.

I hope the writers don't lock themselves into thinking that because Sami is a mom of 4 she has to be domesticated in a boring way.
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kitkat
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First I don't want EJ goodied up, he plays the best bad guy as a good guy it's just not buyable, your wondering, what's he up too? That's why most of us assumed he was the kidnapper. What does he want from Sami two options...

To hurt her, like she hurt him, after he hurt her... lol
Or to make her into a stepford wife and his obediant drone. I think if this is the ideal, he's trying to form together his ideal family.
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UKDaysFan
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kitkat
Jan 10 2010, 01:04 AM
First I don't want EJ goodied up, he plays the best bad guy as a good guy it's just not buyable, your wondering, what's he up too? That's why most of us assumed he was the kidnapper. What does he want from Sami two options...

To hurt her, like she hurt him, after he hurt her... lol
Or to make her into a stepford wife and his obediant drone. I think if this is the ideal, he's trying to form together his ideal family.
I've never seen any indication that EJ has ever wanted that type of relationship with Sami. If anything, I think that description fits more accurately her relationship with Rafe, but that would be a whole different thread.

Until we see more of his motivations it is going to be difficult to do anything other than speculate whether they're good or bad. My guess is that it will be a combination of the two.

As for any ability for EJ to be redeemed, I thought the inclusion of the lullaby scene, was an interesting choice. Choosing to end with a loving scene of EJ & Sydney indicated to me that tptb aren't throwing EJ under a bus by pigeon-holing him as "the evil DiMera".

They've included plot points such as Sami's comments at the vigil to provide potential justification for his behaviour. So I can totall see him being able to be redeemed form this. Pretty much everything on a soap is redeemable, it all comes down to the quality of the story telling & the writing.

How open tptb are leaving this will become clearer with the fallout from the bungling of the ransom exchange. If anything bad was to happen to Sydney, then I think that would be hard for the GA to forgive EJ for. Sami, Stefano, et al are all fair game tho, lol!



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kitkat
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UKDaysFan
Jan 10 2010, 05:19 AM
kitkat
Jan 10 2010, 01:04 AM
First I don't want EJ goodied up, he plays the best bad guy as a good guy it's just not buyable, your wondering, what's he up too? That's why most of us assumed he was the kidnapper. What does he want from Sami two options...

To hurt her, like she hurt him, after he hurt her... lol
Or to make her into a stepford wife and his obediant drone. I think if this is the ideal, he's trying to form together his ideal family.
I've never seen any indication that EJ has ever wanted that type of relationship with Sami. If anything, I think that description fits more accurately her relationship with Rafe, but that would be a whole different thread.

Until we see more of his motivations it is going to be difficult to do anything other than speculate whether they're good or bad. My guess is that it will be a combination of the two.

As for any ability for EJ to be redeemed, I thought the inclusion of the lullaby scene, was an interesting choice. Choosing to end with a loving scene of EJ & Sydney indicated to me that tptb aren't throwing EJ under a bus by pigeon-holing him as "the evil DiMera".

They've included plot points such as Sami's comments at the vigil to provide potential justification for his behaviour. So I can totall see him being able to be redeemed form this. Pretty much everything on a soap is redeemable, it all comes down to the quality of the story telling & the writing.

How open tptb are leaving this will become clearer with the fallout from the bungling of the ransom exchange. If anything bad was to happen to Sydney, then I think that would be hard for the GAto forgive EJ for. Sami, Stefano, et al are all fair game tho, lol!



Rafe has never been shown to control Sami, she's who she is right now by her own choice. At the court Rafe was only protecting her from herself, if she went to jail what would happen to her children. Rafe is Sami's anchor but he doesn't stop her from floating, she goes on the attack and instead of stopping her, he back her up, like a partner.

Now we've not seen that with EJAMI, but we've seen some signs with EJ. There not even subtle, so EJ is talking to Anna and she says something about Sydney deserving a great mom and EJ says that now she will get one. Who Sami? if it's because he has a plan to have her be that then that would have to be an EJ controlled situation. And when Anna was talking rough about Sami and Stefano, EJ said for her to be quiet he didn't want that kind of negative or rough talk around Sydney. Could you imagine EJ and Sami never speaking rough around the baby, maybe if they start to fight he can usher her into another room, and that too in control. His comments to Anna just make it seem like he's planning on having the perfect family.
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kitkat
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kitkat
Jan 10 2010, 09:10 AM
UKDaysFan
Jan 10 2010, 05:19 AM
kitkat
Jan 10 2010, 01:04 AM
First I don't want EJ goodied up, he plays the best bad guy as a good guy it's just not buyable, your wondering, what's he up too? That's why most of us assumed he was the kidnapper. What does he want from Sami two options...

To hurt her, like she hurt him, after he hurt her... lol
Or to make her into a stepford wife and his obediant drone. I think if this is the ideal, he's trying to form together his ideal family.
I've never seen any indication that EJ has ever wanted that type of relationship with Sami. If anything, I think that description fits more accurately her relationship with Rafe, but that would be a whole different thread.

Until we see more of his motivations it is going to be difficult to do anything other than speculate whether they're good or bad. My guess is that it will be a combination of the two.

As for any ability for EJ to be redeemed, I thought the inclusion of the lullaby scene, was an interesting choice. Choosing to end with a loving scene of EJ & Sydney indicated to me that tptb aren't throwing EJ under a bus by pigeon-holing him as "the evil DiMera".

They've included plot points such as Sami's comments at the vigil to provide potential justification for his behaviour. So I can totall see him being able to be redeemed form this. Pretty much everything on a soap is redeemable, it all comes down to the quality of the story telling & the writing.

How open tptb are leaving this will become clearer with the fallout from the bungling of the ransom exchange. If anything bad was to happen to Sydney, then I think that would be hard for the GAto forgive EJ for. Sami, Stefano, et al are all fair game tho, lol!



Rafe has never been shown to control Sami, she's who she is right now by her own choice. At the court Rafe was only protecting her from herself, if she went to jail what would happen to her children. Rafe is Sami's anchor but he doesn't stop her from floating, she goes on the attack and instead of stopping her, he back her up, like a partner. And since he's been back we've not seen him tell Sami she cannot talk about Emily, her own free choice strikes again.

Now we've not seen that with EJAMI (I mean the stepford wife thing), but we've seen some signs with EJ. There not even subtle, so EJ is talking to Anna and she says something about Sydney deserving a great mom and EJ says that now she will get one. Who Sami? if it's because he has a plan to have her be that then that would have to be an EJ controlled situation. And when Anna was talking rough about Sami and Stefano, EJ said for her to be quiet he didn't want that kind of negative or rough talk around Sydney. Could you imagine EJ and Sami never speaking rough around the baby, maybe if they start to fight he can usher her into another room, and that too in control. His comments to Anna just make it seem like he's planning on having the perfect family.
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Cerulean
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EJ, Sami and Nicole all need to go back to their dark roots. All three are substantially more entertaining as bad boys and girls than they are as characters in need of redemption. :popcorn:
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Red Mist
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Cerulean
Jan 10 2010, 09:41 AM
EJ, Sami and Nicole all need to go back to their dark roots. All three are substantially more entertaining as bad boys and girls than they are as characters in need of redemption. :popcorn:
Amen!
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kitkat
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so next week EJ declares
Spoiler: click to toggle


I'm just wondeing the old one was bullshit weed, will the new one be poison oak.
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Paxton
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Dreaming of a Melanie-free Days

I very seriously doubt EJ singing that particular song has any significance other than that it is public domain, meaning DOOL didn't have to pay anyone to use it.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

Paxton
Jan 10 2010, 12:29 PM
I very seriously doubt EJ singing that particular song has any significance other than that it is public domain, meaning DOOL didn't have to pay anyone to use it.
Yeah. Not everything on the soaps need to be overly-analyzed with hidden meanings. I would be very surprised that the writers thought that far ahead. Twinkle Twinkle is just a common kids' song, and it's possible that James Scott knew other verses from his English roots, because the lyrics are supposed from a well-known English poem. (Although, the real roots of Twinkle, Twinkle is from the French tune "Ah! vous dirai-je, Maman", from which Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart wrote a piano arrangement of 12 variations. There! The music professor thus speaks, LOL). The poem has 5 stanzas altogether.
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daisy132


All I know is that I want EJ to win this time. And win BIG. He's been had by everyone that he loved and trusted. He deserves to win. I'm rooting for him, and personally, I hope that Ejami will finally get together and raise their family together, as they should. If Ejami is not to happen any time soon, then I hope that EJ gets custody of his children rather than seeing them raised with the wannabe substitute. They are HIS children, and he has been more than fair with Sami in raising Johnny, with Sami only stabbing him in the back. EJ is in the right - HE's been the victim in all of this. HE and SYDNEY. Now they are together, and I hope they stay that way.

Oh, and I want Tony to come back. THAT would be the icing on the cake. IMO, that would be the perfect future Dimera family - EJ, Tony, Anna and Sami. All gray characters (because we all know Tony is no saint either, but we all adore him) ruling the Dimera empire.
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Alligato
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Paxton
Jan 10 2010, 12:29 PM
I very seriously doubt EJ singing that particular song has any significance other than that it is public domain, meaning DOOL didn't have to pay anyone to use it.
Wow, Pax! Sometimes you just make too much sense! LOL!
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ema


Ejami remind me of Blair and Todd from One Life to Live the couple with an edge, a couple of schemers that the GA wanted to be together and if any of you are interested read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Manning_and_Blair_Cramer

does it sound familiar.
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LuvingLumi
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♥ Lumi is Light, Lumi is Love ♥

kitkat
Jan 9 2010, 06:37 PM
Two seperate theories, first EJ is doing this to make shift the family he wants and will crush anyone in his way to get there.

Second EJ is doing this for sure sweet revenge, to hurt those who hurt him, but the only problem is he's hurting people who have never hurt him. Namely Ari, Johnny, & Will... These people have never even been mean to him if anything they've been nice. He's preying on Ari's goodness and her sympathy for his, vomit, pain. Johnny, he's taken away his little sister, and though he's a child he knows something is definitely wrong. Will, this young man has been very kind to him sending him those pictures of Grace, and how does he repay him by putting him through this hell.

If this was just about Sami, Rafe, Nicole, Brady, & Stefano.... his "betrayers" it would be different, but this involves the whole Brady Clan and even his own sister who loves him. Making others suffer the loss of this child, is outragous. And though EJ loves his kids, maybe the kind of love he's given is not the kind they need... just saying.
And you forgot to mention who he is hurting the most....Sydney.....she hasn't been with her mother but for a day...and he's prolonging the bonding between mother and daughter....he also apparently didn't get to see Sydney since Anna kidnapped her....so the baby has suffered without mother and father and has been cared for by a total stranger to her. Ej has reasons for wanting revenge against Sami and Stefano primarily and Nicole and Rafe too...but in the long run he isn't only hurting those people, he might be the one being hurt in the end when Sami (if the real one ever shows up again) takes this little situation and turns it against him and goes for full custody of both of their kids.....I see the inevitable long winding custody battle coming up for most of 2010....
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LuvingLumi
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♥ Lumi is Light, Lumi is Love ♥

ladyofthelake
Jan 10 2010, 02:29 PM
Paxton
Jan 10 2010, 12:29 PM
I very seriously doubt EJ singing that particular song has any significance other than that it is public domain, meaning DOOL didn't have to pay anyone to use it.
Yeah. Not everything on the soaps need to be overly-analyzed with hidden meanings. I would be very surprised that the writers thought that far ahead. Twinkle Twinkle is just a common kids' song, and it's possible that James Scott knew other verses from his English roots, because the lyrics are supposed from a well-known English poem. (Although, the real roots of Twinkle, Twinkle is from the French tune "Ah! vous dirai-je, Maman", from which Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart wrote a piano arrangement of 12 variations. There! The music professor thus speaks, LOL). The poem has 5 stanzas altogether.
Lucas and Sami sang and read Twinkle Twinkle to Will back about 10 years ago...so I would have thought a more appropriate nursery rhyme for this is Mary had a little lamb...wasn't Nicole going by the alias Mary when she kidnapped Syd? Twinkle twinkle is public domain so they use it over and over and they don't have to pay for rights....
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