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Weekly Discussion: 1/18 - 1/22
Topic Started: Jan 16 2010, 08:29 PM (7,252 Views)
duckie
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lysie
Jan 21 2010, 12:03 PM
I know it's not a fake backstory. I just wonder if he knows. In the past I've never been given a reason to believe he does, and now that she's back I haven't been given a reason to fill in that blank. It wouldn't be unusual for them to have not really mentioned her just as it wouldn't be unusual for them to have told him everything. Families handle absences like that, especially after a death, differently.
I suppose it's possible that they never mentioned her. But considering the unusual circumstances of Brady's birth (having been born at the church during his parents' wedding), and the fact that Carly was one of the ones who delivered him, I'd be willing to bet she came up at some point. She and Isabella were very close, and they remained so throughout Isabella's illness. I don't expect that Brady would know her well, if at all. But I would think he could maybe provide an alternative point of view for Melanie. I don't expect him to change her mind. Just to give her food for thought, so to speak, and at least make the story more balanced.

I guess the main problem I've had with this story is the fact that Carly's history in Salem has been ignored to set up her isolation from the entire town. Only Bo and Dan are on her side (and Dan doesn't know the whole story). And with the exception of Maggie at one point, and maybe Lexie, it's been that way since she came. And it's simply unbelievable that someone who was as loved as she was, would now, with no explanation, be looked on with such suspicion from the moment she came to town.

I understand why Hope doesn't like her now, but there was really no reason for Hope to act as she did at first. And Caroline and Roman's responses are simply inexplicable. I'd just like to see some balance I guess, and having Brady at least acknowledge that he knew she was important to his mom would be a step in that direction.
Edited by duckie, Jan 21 2010, 12:27 PM.
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duckie
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Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 12:08 PM
It's just difficult to invest in a story when the scenes are so short. The filler scenes seem to go on and on forever, but when something happens that I'm actually interested in watching, the scenes last 30 - 45 seconds, max.

For example, those scenes with Carly and Vivian in the elevator -- way too short. That would've been a great opportunity for Carly and Vivian to have a nice long chat about their history together... for Carly to express how her years of trauma have changed her... for Vivian to explain why Lawrence meant so much to her and why she was so affected by his loss. That would've allowed the new viewers to better understand the Carly/Vivian dynamic and invest in the story, but no. Instead, it was all about "da plot." The bare minimum. Vivian scared Carly into a confession and that was that -- nothing more. Another opportunity for a deeper conversation was missed. Very touch-and-go. Choppy. Quick. Blink and you miss it. The scenes were over before anyone got a chance to care what was happening, and that's upsetting. I find it very frustrating that Carly and Vivian have shared maybe ten minutes of total screen time together since they returned to the show in October. That's just crazy to me. Their dynamic NEEDS to be explored more.

Then there's the Bo/Carly dynamic. Why is that not being explored? All they ever do is talk about "da plot" and nothing else. They never talk about the past or how each of them have changed over the years and why. We don't get any "moments." The plot is never put on pause for a moment or two so we can have some low-key character scenes or deeper conversations. I mean, Carly supposedly loves this man but you'd never know it based on the dialogue. It's all plot, plot, plot. And after months of running in circles, suddenly they're in bed together, which was hot, but whaaaa...?

Then there's Vivian. This woman has murdered people, yet she's panicked over a silly little restraining order? Since when does Vivian care about obeying the law? She would never wring her hands over something as trivial as that. It's not Carly she's after anyway -- it's her daughter. So what gives? It's stupid shit like this that makes me roll my eyes.

Then there's Melanie's silly hatred of Carly. So contrived. So manufactured. So forced. In every scene that they share, I find myself feeling very critical because it's so over-written and over-crafted. It's too convenient. Too forced. Up until now, Carly and Melanie have barely had anything to do with each other, yet all of a sudden they're constantly crossing paths and bumping into each other? Whatever.
I agree with all of this. I cannot stand these short choppy scenes, and for the life of me, I can't understand the point of them. The scenes between Vivian and Carly in the elevator should have been much longer, like in the old days, when you could sense the terror building in Carly as Vivian gradually gained the upper hand. In these scenes there was barely time to work up a good sweat. I mean, I recognize Carly is already dealing from a position of fragility because of what Vivian already put her through, but those scenes were simply way too short.

And they definitely need to explore the Bo/Carly dynamic more. They need more character driven aspects to this show.
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sandyeggo1


duckie
Jan 21 2010, 12:25 PM
... And it's simply unbelievable that someone who was as loved as she was, would now, with no explanation, be looked on with such suspicion from the moment she came to town.

Not unbelievable at all. It was in the Salem newspaper that the man that "swept her off her feet" was murdered and she shows up hiding out at ex lover's house.

Quote:
 
I understand why Hope doesn't like her now, but there was really no reason for Hope to act as she did at first.


Seriously? Would you have wrapped your arms around your husband's ex if found her in your bed?

Look at it this way. In 1990 - She was brought on to replace Hope. Now, she's replacing Billie - the interloper. See the diff? The people of Salem do.
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lysie


duckie
Jan 21 2010, 12:25 PM
lysie
Jan 21 2010, 12:03 PM
I know it's not a fake backstory. I just wonder if he knows. In the past I've never been given a reason to believe he does, and now that she's back I haven't been given a reason to fill in that blank. It wouldn't be unusual for them to have not really mentioned her just as it wouldn't be unusual for them to have told him everything. Families handle absences like that, especially after a death, differently.
I suppose it's possible that they never mentioned her. But considering the unusual circumstances of Brady's birth (having been born at the church during his parents' wedding), and the fact that Carly was one of the ones who delivered him, I'd be willing to bet she came up at some point. She and Isabella were very close, and they remained so throughout Isabella's illness. I don't expect that Brady would know her well, if at all. But I would think he could maybe provide an alternative point of view for Melanie. I don't expect him to change her mind. Just to give her food for thought, so to speak, and at least make the story more balanced.

I guess the main problem I've had with this story is the fact that Carly's history in Salem has been ignored to set up her isolation from the entire town. Only Bo and Dan are on her side (and Dan doesn't know the whole story). And with the exception of Maggie at one point, and maybe Lexie, it's been that way since she came. And it's simply unbelievable that someone who was as loved as she was, would now, with no explanation, be looked on with such suspicion from the moment she came to town.

I understand why Hope doesn't like her now, but there was really no reason for Hope to act as she did at first. And Caroline and Roman's responses are simply inexplicable. I'd just like to see some balance I guess, and having Brady at least acknowledge that he knew she was important to his mom would be a step in that direction.
I do agree. Don't get the impression that I don't. I just was wondering and could see why he wouldn't. Either way, I think the Brady/Carly connection needs to be addressed whether it's in regards to Melanie or not.
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sandyeggo1


TINA222
Jan 21 2010, 11:27 AM
Phillip looks like he stole Chuck Norris's rug. What is up with that flippy thing in the back??
Yes, both Philip and Chad need a visit from the haircut fairy.
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esp13
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Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 12:08 PM
It's just difficult to invest in a story when the scenes are so short. The filler scenes seem to go on and on forever, but when something happens that I'm actually interested in watching, the scenes last 30 - 45 seconds, max.

For example, those scenes with Carly and Vivian in the elevator -- way too short. That would've been a great opportunity for Carly and Vivian to have a nice long chat about their history together... for Carly to express how her years of trauma have changed her... for Vivian to explain why Lawrence meant so much to her and why she was so affected by his loss. That would've allowed the new viewers to better understand the Carly/Vivian dynamic and invest in the story, but no. Instead, it was all about "da plot." The bare minimum. Vivian scared Carly into a confession and that was that -- nothing more. Another opportunity for a deeper conversation was missed. Very touch-and-go. Choppy. Quick. Blink and you miss it. The scenes were over before anyone got a chance to care what was happening, and that's upsetting. I find it very frustrating that Carly and Vivian have shared maybe ten minutes of total screen time together since they returned to the show in October. That's just crazy to me. Their dynamic NEEDS to be explored more.

Then there's the Bo/Carly dynamic. Why is that not being explored? All they ever do is talk about "da plot" and nothing else. They never talk about the past or how each of them have changed over the years and why. We don't get any "moments." The plot is never put on pause for a moment or two so we can have some low-key character scenes or deeper conversations. I mean, Carly supposedly loves this man but you'd never know it based on the dialogue. It's all plot, plot, plot. And after months of running in circles, suddenly they're in bed together, which was hot, but whaaaa...?

Then there's Vivian. This woman has murdered people, yet she's panicked over a silly little restraining order? Since when does Vivian care about obeying the law? She would never wring her hands over something as trivial as that. It's not Carly she's after anyway -- it's her daughter. So what gives? It's stupid shit like this that makes me roll my eyes.

Then there's Melanie's silly hatred of Carly. So contrived. So manufactured. So forced. In every scene that they share, I find myself feeling very critical because it's so over-written and over-crafted. It's too convenient. Too forced. Up until now, Carly and Melanie have barely had anything to do with each other, yet all of a sudden they're constantly crossing paths and bumping into each other? Whatever.

I'm also sick of all the contrived misunderstandings and miscommunications. Like Bo telling Phillip that Carly came back to Salem just to steal him from Hope. That's so stupid to me. I understand that Bo wants to help Carly, but would he really twist the knife that much for Hope just to confuse Vivian? I say no. There comes a time when the collateral damage just isn't worth it and the characters start looking like fools for making such silly decisions. Bo could've said that Carly back to Salem for anything. He could've said that Carly came back to Salem in search of an elusive priceless gem. At least that would've piqued Vivian's interest and sent her on a wild goose chase to get the gem before Carly, LoL. The explanation Bo gave was just stupid and contrived.

Just... ugh. The whole thing is so shoddily written. This writing team sucks.
This is a wonderful post, Kenny. It encapsulates what I've been feeling about the show for a long time. Even when the show has improved dramatically in other areas (pacing, actual sense of direction, having at least a minimal amount of plot cohesion) this is the area where there has not been a lick of improvement in the 3+ years that I've been watching again.

The writing staff has decided to all but eliminate any true character moments. No more conversations between friends/relatives/enemies that simply flesh out motivations and emotions and give the audience an understanding of where that character is at that point in time, regardless of whether it advances the plot or not. Now, every tiny (and I mean tiny) character moment that occurs is there only because it serves the plot in some manner. If it doesn't serve the plot, we don't see it and we only see the bare minimum required to serve the plot.

All of your Carly examples are perfect. The elevator scenes should have been longer and fleshed out Carly and Vivian's history better. Carly claims she's fallen in love with Bo again, but why? Because he helped her? Because she never stopped loving him? Why? Bo clearly still has feelings for Carly, but why? Is it just from their past, is it something more? Those motivations and emotions can be fleshed out so easily with conversations with the right people. Personally, I'd bring back Kayla for a short term visit to serve that role for Bo, Carly, and Hope. She's Bo's sister and they have always been close and she would support him, even if she didn't agree with his actions. She's always been very close to Hope and can relate to her as a mother and a wife. And she was also friends with Carly. They weren't super close as I recall, but Kayla certainly remembers when Carly saved Shawn D. and how they worked together to find the antidote for the virus that Lawrence had unleashed. So, I think she could provide some perspective with Carly as well.

But, even without Kayla, there are ways to make that work and to get a better understanding of all three characters and what they are feeling. And it certainly goes beyond just this story, it's all of them. Why is Melanie torn between Philip and Nathan? Why does Nathan seem to be unable to put Melanie behind him? Why is Stephanie suddenly so determined to have Nathan? I see people offer theories about all of these things, but none of it has been remotely explained onscreen. And while some would argue that nothing would make that quad better, not having any real clue to any of the character motivations beyond "I like him/her for unknown reasons" certainly doesn't help anything.

Days has vastly improved in some areas over the last year or so. There is a definite sense of direction and it no longer feels like things get changed at the drop of the hat anymore. But, the downside of these improvements is that the other flaws are now more apparent than ever.
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duckie
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sandyeggo1
Jan 21 2010, 12:37 PM
Seriously? Would you have wrapped your arms around your husband's ex if found her in your bed?
Without my husband in the bed with her? I probably wouldn't embrace her, but I probably wouldn't have screamed like a harridan about "my bed" and "my house" (both of which I'd left by the way) before I knew all the facts. But I tend to be a little more measured in my responses than some people.
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Liz<3Days
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I think if they put the same careful thought in Carly as they did with Nicole, then I can get into her character. In the meantime, I dont like this version of her.

And Vivian...god, why is this woman not smarter?! Seriously falling for that shit that Bo told Philip. REALLY? A line saying that she thought it was total bull would have been nice...but she was going to make sure she told Hope to cause havoc with their relationship. That would have been nice!

I also didnt mind Melanie yesterday. Every one in town seems to have an opinion on her OTT reaction to Carly..yet why is Carly being all clingly. Sure, WE KNOW, and Bo knows, but Melanie doesnt and I would feel like, "Hey lady....stop it!" After he getting it from Bo and Carly yesterday then coming back to the pub to see Philip, I saw her frustration-it was warranted!
Edited by Liz<3Days, Jan 21 2010, 01:11 PM.
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Red Mist
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I ain't gonna lie. If I was Hope Carly would have been smashed the eff up. lol You don't sleep with my man and not walk away with scars. I am scrappy.
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PhoenixRising05
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The show has had plenty of character moments. We've had scenes of Bo talking with various people over the past few months about his issues with Hope (Lexie, Abe, Roman, Caroline, Philip, Maggie, Julie). We've had similar scenes with Hope talking to others where we saw what she was thinking and why she acts/feels as she does. Bo and Carly reminisced and talked about their past a number of times. Recently, it's become all about the plot because we are about to head into a huge event so it's buildup and I don't even feel like we've lost those characters moments as a result because we got some good Carly/Melanie and Carly/Lawrence stuff this week. I agree that the Carly/Vivian scenes are too short but I think viewers get it. They've explained why Vivian hates her. We've seen the Buried Alive plot mentioned a ton. I do think we could use some scenes where Bo and Carly talk about how they feel. I would love a conversation between Hope and Bo where they talk about his past with Carly and why he is confused at this time. Now is the perfect time to have that given what has happened.

The only major thing that I feel they need to improve on is the way Carly is treated. Maggie is really the only one in Salem other then Daniel, Bo, and sometimes Justin to give this woman a chance. I know many of the people that knew her are gone but it would be nice for Caroline to acknowledge that at one point she liked Carly or how about Maggie, Caroline, etc explaining to Hope what a wonderful person Carly was and how much they liked her. This is why I feel Jennifer is needed. Carly needs someone from that era in her corner and it has to be someone like Jennifer.

Once the show amps things up and starts treating this story as well as the baby switch (I think it's getting there), then it will be fine.

As far as the whole restraining order thing, I think Vivian is trying to play this carefully. It's not so much the restraining order but she doesn't want to get her hands dirty, If she goes after Carly or continues to play the sort of game she is with that restraining order in place, it could end up raising eyebrows and screwing up her plans. She is trying to be discreet. Sure, everyone knows she will try something but only an idiot would call attention to themselves by violating a restraining order when they are plotting to go after that person and their child.
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Jan 21 2010, 01:23 PM.
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Harmony233


Another problem I'm having in this Carly/Viv feud is why haven't they had Carly mention that Viv stole Nikki from her.I mean I get the character is not on the show.But still that should be another reason that Carly would be worried about melanie.
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duckie
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PhoenixRising05
Jan 21 2010, 01:21 PM
The show has had plenty of character moments. We've had scenes of Bo talking with various people over the past few months about his issues with Hope (Lexie, Abe, Roman, Caroline, Philip, Maggie, Julie). We've had similar scenes with Hope talking to others where we saw what she was thinking and why she acts/feels as she does. Bo and Carly reminisced and talked about their past a number of times.
The problem is it's all the same character moments. Everyone tells Bo that he needs to go fix his marriage. Nobody is there to tell him that they support him because his wife left him. Instead, it's all on him to fix the marriage, and oh by the way, stop trying to help Carly because that's the problem.

The other character moment we get is Hope telling everybody how her marriage is over, and people tell her to fight for her marriage even though it's not her fault. She has recently accepted some responsibility for the failure of her marriage, but for the most part, she blamed Bo and everyone just accepted that assessment and backed her up.

As for the reminiscing between Bo and Carly, that was important. But if we are to believe that Carly is in love with Bo and that Bo has feelings for Carly, we have to go beyond reminiscing and into the present. I recognize that they've got other things on their minds right now because of the whole Melanie thing. But somewhere along that line, those conversations have to be had.
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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

Absolutely LOVING Julie & Hope today. Both Susan Seaforth Hayes and Kristian Alfonso are looking STUNNING. Julie in her silver hair and that white fur is striking! IMO, Kristian's hair looks especially nice today.
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Paxton
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Years ago, when I was watching the movie "Casino" with my husband, towards the end of the movie when Sharon Stone's character is obnoxiously screaming and careening out of control and being a total psycho bitch, my husband impatiently snapped, "Why won't someone just kill her?" That's how I felt watching Sami huff, puff and ugly cry her way through her reaction to the napper's note.

Is Melanie getting married atop the Swiss Alps? Either that or her dress is an homage to Naomi from "Mama's Family."
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esp13
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duckie
Jan 21 2010, 01:36 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 21 2010, 01:21 PM
The show has had plenty of character moments. We've had scenes of Bo talking with various people over the past few months about his issues with Hope (Lexie, Abe, Roman, Caroline, Philip, Maggie, Julie). We've had similar scenes with Hope talking to others where we saw what she was thinking and why she acts/feels as she does. Bo and Carly reminisced and talked about their past a number of times.
The problem is it's all the same character moments. Everyone tells Bo that he needs to go fix his marriage. Nobody is there to tell him that they support him because his wife left him. Instead, it's all on him to fix the marriage, and oh by the way, stop trying to help Carly because that's the problem.

The other character moment we get is Hope telling everybody how her marriage is over, and people tell her to fight for her marriage even though it's not her fault. She has recently accepted some responsibility for the failure of her marriage, but for the most part, she blamed Bo and everyone just accepted that assessment and backed her up.

As for the reminiscing between Bo and Carly, that was important. But if we are to believe that Carly is in love with Bo and that Bo has feelings for Carly, we have to go beyond reminiscing and into the present. I recognize that they've got other things on their minds right now because of the whole Melanie thing. But somewhere along that line, those conversations have to be had.
Exactly. To the extent we've had those moments, they were surface level at best and involved basically the exact same plot point. And there has been no balance. Not one person has even pretended to understand Bo's side of things. Not one person has called Hope out on her actions (except Bo and then only after she's yelled at him sufficiently). Carly has had no one to talk to about her feelings and why she has fallen in love with Bo again.

The Carly/Bo flashbacks are great to explain the relationship they had then, but they do nothing to explain what is going on NOW. It's the same damn problem they had with Steve and Kayla. They used all kinds of flashbacks when the first returned to show their history, but they never once bothered to explore what made them tick now. Even for some of us who knew that history completely, it bugged that they never explored who they were 16 years later and how that impacted their current relationship. It's a major missing piece to the emotional puzzle and that piece is missing from Bo and Carly's relationship as well. For example, why is Bo with Carly right now? Is it his anger at Hope without any deep feelings for Carly? Is he falling for Carly again? Is it just the resurfacing of old feelings? I literally have no idea because the show hasn't bother to give Bo an opportunity to explain it.
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Kenny
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Matt
Jan 21 2010, 01:53 PM
Absolutely LOVING Julie & Hope today. Both Susan Seaforth Hayes and Kristian Alfonso are looking STUNNING. Julie in her silver hair and that white fur is striking! IMO, Kristian's hair looks especially nice today.
Mm-hmm. They looked great. Kristian's coloring was good today. She looked very healthy. I couldn't tell if it was due to the makeup or the lighting though, LoL.
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talbab1994
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sungrey
Jan 21 2010, 09:19 AM
jane1978
Jan 20 2010, 03:53 PM
Itīs time to send Justin packing. I hate these guys who are playing the best friends while secretly hoping to finally score. He is like Frankie during Jackīs last death period. Just always waiting for a moment when Hope is weak enough to worm his way in.

Iīm all for Hope to have another guy donīt take me wrong. But she needs some real strong guy who will sweep her off her feets and show her life can be fun again, not this parody of an insurance agent. And Justin is so pathetic. Couldnīt Hope made it clearer she is not interested and just looking for a confort? Yet he has to kiss her.
Paging Judi Evans, STAT. Adrienne needs to come reclaim Justin.
:hail: :hail: :hail:

I completely agree. It's time for Judi to come back!!
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TINA222
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KA's hair looked pretty I just wish she would put on 10 pounds. She would look soo beautiful.

The show repeating Sami's ugly crying scene. Thanks alot. :flipoff:


I actually found the Vivian/Mel scene cute. But that dress was fugly and looked like a nightgown. Plus it looked cheap.

EJ with Sidney was adorable. He isnt giving he back and it looks more likey he is behind those latest spoilers. He just doesnt want Anna to know that. I bet he is planning on taking that money and running.
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cassie1013


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Please DAYS make this be the end of Bo and Hope...please, please. Allow Hope to become a woman.


I agree! Hope is painted as this independent woman, but with Bo, she's really not. Yeah, they have their cop-tag-team moments, but as soon as Hope is in trouble, she becomes damsel in distress and Bo has to save her. One thing Barly has shown me is they're much more 'equals' in that sense. Carly can be a guy's guy, something Hope just isn't... something I want from this story is for Hope to start acting like a friggin' adult. So far they've shown her not listening (properly, or hearing what she wants to hear), assuming, crying, throwing stuff and causing scenes in front of her family (after someone just died!) - very immature behavior.

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Ewww! No I do not want to see Lawrence with Hope. He really hasn't aged very well. He doesn't look hot enough to be paired with Hope. Daniel and Hope I could go for. Providing it's done right and only a short term thing.


Yeah, as much as I see Hope/Lawrence as good story, this is the number 1 reason I'll have to pass. He isn't hot enough for her, LOL. It's really too bad, but I just can't get behind this story with his fading looks...I'd be down for Daniel and Hope, though.

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Yes, they need to do a better job. Give Hope a chance to talk with someone other than Viv and Victor about Carly. I want Hope to hear from Caroline, or Maggie, or someone who knew Carly what she really meant to them, to Bo, when Hope was dead. I want them to tell her "you do know that Carly pulled ShawnD out of that well.....worked with him when he lost his hearing and comforted him when Bo was dying. And oh yea, she saved Bo's life." For me it's hard to not judge Hope harshly because I am assuming she KNOWS that Carly saved both ShawnD and Bo. If she doesn't know, why? And why isn't someone telling her?


Exactly! I'm new to Carly as well, so why do I have to find out about all her good Dr. deeds from here? Someone should be telling Hope about Carly/Shawn, etc. And perhaps filling her on the fact Lawrence was a terrible man who raped her cousin, Jennifer - again, something I've had to find out on here! Hope's "high moral ground" will be taken down a few notches with this info.

Anyway, there is a bit too much focus on the plot in this story. As much as I like it, not enough is happening. Hope hasn't made progress in the last 3 weeks in finding Vivian's secret - she was snooping on NYE, but hasn't had ONE opportunity to go back in there? Give me a break. Something needs to happen - like Hope finding out Carly's secret (after doing something dirty to get it, lol), and that leading to the next part of the story.
Edited by cassie1013, Jan 21 2010, 02:26 PM.
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Kenny
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TINA222
Jan 21 2010, 02:14 PM
But that dress was fugly and looked like a nightgown. Plus it looked cheap.
It did look like a nightgown. Very cheap. But this is Days. We probably shouldn't expect much more, LoL.
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