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Weekly Discussion: 1/18 - 1/22
Topic Started: Jan 16 2010, 08:29 PM (7,251 Views)
jane1978


Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 11:21 AM
I'm getting really frustrated with the Vivian/Carly/Melanie/Bo/Hope storyline. The scenes are too short, the story as a whole is choppy and I feel like we're missing too many "character" scenes. There's something missing -- perhaps a common thread tying it all together. I'm not sure. Either way, it's all about "da plot" and everything else is falling to the wayside. Characters are being written strangely... things are happening at odd times and it's paced strangely... the writing as a whole is just odd and disjointed.
I think you are still stuck in the JER world with his neverending and repeating conversations and people never moving from place to place in the run of an episode. With JER you could almost bet when two characters are shown in the teaser meeting at Pub at the end they will be still there continuing in the same conversation. With Tomlin the characters are able to start at Pub, return home, make a quick stop at University Hospital, go back home and finally meet someone at pier all during one episode. Itīs very quick, rushed and there is not much place for some hindering chatting but I understand it can be unpleasant and even confusing for some. Itīs certainly different, because I still remember some 1993 Carly/Vivian confrontation where Vivian was about to push Carly from some rooftop, she pushed her to the edge and they spend frigging next two episodes arguing till Carly finally ran away. I quess if you wanted things dragged like that during the elevator scene no wonder you are disappointed.

Personally, I think it works for the show (and certainly for me) because I hated the way JER dragged everything in his daily writing. The pace seemed so slow. I always thought all I have to see is the teaser and final act, because nothing substantial ever happened between.
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Mason


While I enjoyed the Carly/Vivian elevator scenes, they were absurdly brief. The writers could have taken the opportunity to delve into Carly and Vivian's characters and their history. It could have been fascinating for both old and new viewers to watch. But these writers aren't interested in character-driven scenes.
Edited by Mason, Jan 21 2010, 02:50 PM.
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duckie
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jane1978
Jan 21 2010, 02:48 PM
Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 11:21 AM
I'm getting really frustrated with the Vivian/Carly/Melanie/Bo/Hope storyline. The scenes are too short, the story as a whole is choppy and I feel like we're missing too many "character" scenes. There's something missing -- perhaps a common thread tying it all together. I'm not sure. Either way, it's all about "da plot" and everything else is falling to the wayside. Characters are being written strangely... things are happening at odd times and it's paced strangely... the writing as a whole is just odd and disjointed.
I think you are still stuck in the JER world with his neverending and repeating conversations and people never moving from place to place in the run of an episode. With JER you could almost bet when two characters are shown in the teaser meeting at Pub at the end they will be still there continuing in the same conversation. With Tomlin the characters are able to start at Pub, return home, make a quick stop at University Hospital, go back home and finally meet someone at pier all during one episode. Itīs very quick, rushed and there is not much place for some hindering chatting but I understand it can be unpleasant and even confusing for some. Itīs certainly different, because I still remember some 1993 Carly/Vivian confrontation where Vivian was about to push Carly from some rooftop, she pushed her to the edge and they spend frigging next two episodes arguing till Carly finally ran away. I quess if you wanted things dragged like that during the elevator scene no wonder you are disappointed.

Personally, I think it works for the show (and certainly for me) because I hated the way JER dragged everything in his daily writing. The pace seemed so slow. I always thought all I have to see is the teaser and final act, because nothing substantial ever happened between.
Tomlin does his share of neverending confrontations. Like the Nicole/EJ confrontation when EJ found out that Sydney allegedly wasn't his. That damn conversation took a week.

There has to be a happy medium between scenes that take a week and those that are 30 seconds long. And all I'm saying is we don't need 25 scenes with people telling Bo to go work on his marriage and nothing establishing who Carly was in Salem as a whole. We've gotten plenty on who she was to Bo, but who was she in the context of Salem? Nothing. And that is an oversight.
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lysie


jane1978
Jan 21 2010, 02:48 PM
Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 11:21 AM
I'm getting really frustrated with the Vivian/Carly/Melanie/Bo/Hope storyline. The scenes are too short, the story as a whole is choppy and I feel like we're missing too many "character" scenes. There's something missing -- perhaps a common thread tying it all together. I'm not sure. Either way, it's all about "da plot" and everything else is falling to the wayside. Characters are being written strangely... things are happening at odd times and it's paced strangely... the writing as a whole is just odd and disjointed.
I think you are still stuck in the JER world with his neverending and repeating conversations and people never moving from place to place in the run of an episode. With JER you could almost bet when two characters are shown in the teaser meeting at Pub at the end they will be still there continuing in the same conversation. With Tomlin the characters are able to start at Pub, return home, make a quick stop at University Hospital, go back home and finally meet someone at pier all during one episode. Itīs very quick, rushed and there is not much place for some hindering chatting but I understand it can be unpleasant and even confusing for some. Itīs certainly different, because I still remember some 1993 Carly/Vivian confrontation where Vivian was about to push Carly from some rooftop, she pushed her to the edge and they spend frigging next two episodes arguing till Carly finally ran away. I quess if you wanted things dragged like that during the elevator scene no wonder you are disappointed.

Personally, I think it works for the show (and certainly for me) because I hated the way JER dragged everything in his daily writing. The pace seemed so slow. I always thought all I have to see is the teaser and final act, because nothing substantial ever happened between.
There's a medium, though. JER definitely dragged things. I don't know that I'd say Tomlin rushes things because that would imply that things happen. Things are still dragging and conversations are still dragging and being rehashed just like with JER...they're just being dragged out all over town.
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Kenny
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jane1978
Jan 21 2010, 02:48 PM
I think you are still stuck in the JER world with his neverending and repeating conversations and people never moving from place to place in the run of an episode.
Nope. One of the things I like best about ATWT is how the characters are all over the place, turning up here and there within the span of an episode. I don't have a problem with that. And to say that the show doesn't drag with Tomlin is a joke, LoL. I mean, how long did it take Rafe to tell Sami that Sydney was hers again? I almost expected it never to happen.

Regardless, for the most part, my problem is the length of the scenes themselves -- not the pace of the stories. It's the overall choppiness and lack of scene-to-scene and episode-to-episode flow. The overall cohesiveness. Things just aren't popping the way they need to be popping. These problems are keeping me from emotionally connecting as fully as I want to because the scenes are over before I ever have a chance to get into them. Also, I feel like we're missing certain elements/conversations/emotional crescendos and timing is just odd for many story beats.
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Red Mist
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In the dream sequence Viv's red gloves are amazing. I am adding red gloves to the list of MY wants.

Hmmm...Was Viv wearing purple or blue today? It was kind of a purple blue. Melanie had a purple tank and her shirt had a purple stripe. Justin was clearly wearing purple....

WTF Was Stephnie wearing? Did they break into a wardrobe closet from the Cosby show Circa 1986? Cuz I am certain I saw Mr. Pudding Pops wearing that sweater....That scarf was terrible too. It looked like a throw blanket wound around her. Shame on the wardrobe dept.


Sami's crying really is bad. The hue of her reddend face clashed with her burgundy, purple, pink shirt. Ok, now I am just being bitchy. lol

Nathan get over Melanie. The convo between him and Carly about Melanie was so pointless. Why must every break-up be questioned and analyzed? She just wasn't that into you...move on.

Julie looked glorious!

The convo between Julie and Hope was great. Bo isn't my hero anymore either, Hope.

I was getting annoyed with Anna. The kid is crying, so pick it up! This is no time to stand and monologue. I hate the sound of crying. Thank god she eventually did pick her up...not that it did any good. lol

As much as I love the devilish plotting old ppl...I really wish we would see more action and less talk. I am getting antsy.

Ej looked like hell. He needs some Melatonin in his life. Sleep is needed.

I felt like I had heard that Sami/ Ej convo before....many times. They really need to wrap this sl up. It is just stupid.

I did enjoy Sami telling Rafe off. Now Rafe can go off and over analyze his relationship and break up with Arianna...We know its coming.

Ej is just sexy as hell when he is holding Sydney. Gets me everytime.

I hated Melanie's wedding dress. She looked like a Milk Maid. It was something an insecure bride would make her bridesmaids wear in hues of green or vomit pepto pink...A Wedding Dress it was , NOT.

The show for the most part was dull. The scenes worth seeing were between Hope and Julie. Best dialogue, and best acting in the show.


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PhoenixRising05
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jane1978
Jan 21 2010, 02:48 PM
Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 11:21 AM
I'm getting really frustrated with the Vivian/Carly/Melanie/Bo/Hope storyline. The scenes are too short, the story as a whole is choppy and I feel like we're missing too many "character" scenes. There's something missing -- perhaps a common thread tying it all together. I'm not sure. Either way, it's all about "da plot" and everything else is falling to the wayside. Characters are being written strangely... things are happening at odd times and it's paced strangely... the writing as a whole is just odd and disjointed.
I think you are still stuck in the JER world with his neverending and repeating conversations and people never moving from place to place in the run of an episode. With JER you could almost bet when two characters are shown in the teaser meeting at Pub at the end they will be still there continuing in the same conversation. With Tomlin the characters are able to start at Pub, return home, make a quick stop at University Hospital, go back home and finally meet someone at pier all during one episode. Itīs very quick, rushed and there is not much place for some hindering chatting but I understand it can be unpleasant and even confusing for some. Itīs certainly different, because I still remember some 1993 Carly/Vivian confrontation where Vivian was about to push Carly from some rooftop, she pushed her to the edge and they spend frigging next two episodes arguing till Carly finally ran away. I quess if you wanted things dragged like that during the elevator scene no wonder you are disappointed.

Personally, I think it works for the show (and certainly for me) because I hated the way JER dragged everything in his daily writing. The pace seemed so slow. I always thought all I have to see is the teaser and final act, because nothing substantial ever happened between.
Good points.

I've seen plenty of character-driven scenes this past year. I'm not saying there is nothing that needs to be done to improve upon things. My point of disagreement is with those who mentioned the show not providing character moments anymore or laying out the motivations. They have done that but they also have to cater to today's audience too. The ratings are up for a reason. The show is trying to be character-driven while at the same time delivering something that makes fans tune in every day. I totally get the complaints being made but in this day and age you have to be careful to maintain a balance. The average viewer doesn't want too much long and drawn out scenes. They want the hour to fly by and they want it to be easy to watch. They don't want to have to work too hard to watch the show. It's just like JER's first run only with the modern twist of moving things along a bit faster. Any person can tune in for the first time and get right into the stories. That is how you get people to tune in. If you make it too much to take in, they will never give you a chance. The average viewer is not like those on message boards. They don't give a damn about lighting, wardrobe, scene length, etc. If they did, soaps would've never made it this far and Days itself certainly would've have increased their ratings like they have this past year. Just look at this past year. Many message boards were full of complaints and negativity yet the ratings kept increasing. I'm not saying anyone is wrong and shouldn't want what they want. I want it to a degree too. I do feel the show is doing an ok job but it could be better. However, I'm looking at this from TPTB's point of view too. You have to do what works. You can't worry about what people on a message board think.
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Kenny
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Dragonish1
Jan 21 2010, 03:03 PM
I was getting annoyed with Anna. The kid is crying, so pick it up! This is no time to stand and monologue. I hate the sound of crying. Thank god she eventually did pick her up...not that it did any good. lol
I had to LoL @ Sydney reaching out for someone off-screen to hold her when she was in Anna's arms.
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Kenny
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PhoenixRising05
Jan 21 2010, 03:04 PM
The average viewer is not like those on message boards. They don't give a damn about lighting, wardrobe, scene length, etc.
Maybe not consciously, but subconsciously I do think it makes a difference. How can it not? These things matter, otherwise the shows would have no budget or writing teams at all.

I understand that you like to "speak for TPTB" though. Personally, I just like to speak for myself. TPTB and their difficult positions be damned, LoL.
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esp13
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Quote:
 
However, I'm looking at this from TPTB's point of view too. You have to do what works. You can't worry about what people on a message board think.


Yes, yes. I know that what I think doesn't matter to anybody at Days. I'm just an idiot on a message board criticizing something that I know nothing about.

But, even though it doesn't matter and I'm stupid, I'm going to continue to talk about the things that I feel are missing from the show. And I feel that deeper, more meaningful character and emotional moments are definitely missing from the show. I realize that you believe that things are fine they way they are. But, do you honestly think that a little more depth and emotion would be a bad thing? I'm not talking about returning to JER levels of dragging things out. There really is a happy medium that can be found. The types of moments I'm thinking of might add up to one or two episodes a month worth of added time. I just don't think that would be such a drag on the plot that viewers would suddenly run away in droves.
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peaches179
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Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 03:10 PM
I understand that you like to "speak for TPTB" though. Personally, I just like to speak for myself. TPTB and their difficult positions be damned, LoL.

:applause:
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PhoenixRising05
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Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 03:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 21 2010, 03:04 PM
The average viewer is not like those on message boards. They don't give a damn about lighting, wardrobe, scene length, etc.
Maybe not consciously, but subconsciously I do think it makes a difference. How can it not? These things matter, otherwise the shows would have no budget or writing teams at all.

I understand that you like to "speak for TPTB" though. Personally, I just like to speak for myself. TPTB and their difficult positions be damned, LoL.
I honestly don't think they do, Kenny. I think the only instance in which things like that matter is if you do something that really alters things, like what GL did. That was a massive change. I don't think the general audience worries about those things. You have to remember they don't analyze like people on a message board do. They watch the show and go on with their lives. They don't come to a board and relive it in their minds as they post their comments. I think if you took a bunch of people out of the general audience and made them hang around a message board for a few months they would become like the typical message board poster. Being on a message board does drastically change the way you view things on a number of levels.

The only reason I like to think of it from the view of TPTB is because I think the bigger picture has a place in discussions like this. I could easily be like everyone else and rip things apart. I may be the optimist around here but I don't sincerely like every thing that happens. I just try to point out the positive and where TPTB may be coming from because I do feel it's important and it's how I try to watch all shows now. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't enjoy watching them as much as I should. TPTB have a rough job. It's easy to bash them but it truly isn't easy.
Edited by PhoenixRising05, Jan 21 2010, 03:18 PM.
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PhoenixRising05
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esp13
Jan 21 2010, 03:12 PM
Quote:
 
However, I'm looking at this from TPTB's point of view too. You have to do what works. You can't worry about what people on a message board think.


Yes, yes. I know that what I think doesn't matter to anybody at Days. I'm just an idiot on a message board criticizing something that I know nothing about.

But, even though it doesn't matter and I'm stupid, I'm going to continue to talk about the things that I feel are missing from the show. And I feel that deeper, more meaningful character and emotional moments are definitely missing from the show. I realize that you believe that things are fine they way they are. But, do you honestly think that a little more depth and emotion would be a bad thing? I'm not talking about returning to JER levels of dragging things out. There really is a happy medium that can be found. The types of moments I'm thinking of might add up to one or two episodes a month worth of added time. I just don't think that would be such a drag on the plot that viewers would suddenly run away in droves.
Your right. It would help. All I am saying is that it wouldn't make much of an impact beyond the people who call for it on a message board. That's all. I want the same things you do. I won't be too upset if I don't get it but that doesn't mean I don't want better.

I also didn't mean to imply you or anyone else was stupid. I was just speaking to the process of the TPTB. They do lurk the boards and they do keep things in mind but the current Days regime knows what is going to keep the show going and what is going to continue to make it a success.
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lysie


PhoenixRising05
Jan 21 2010, 03:17 PM
Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 03:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 21 2010, 03:04 PM
The average viewer is not like those on message boards. They don't give a damn about lighting, wardrobe, scene length, etc.
Maybe not consciously, but subconsciously I do think it makes a difference. How can it not? These things matter, otherwise the shows would have no budget or writing teams at all.

I understand that you like to "speak for TPTB" though. Personally, I just like to speak for myself. TPTB and their difficult positions be damned, LoL.
I honestly don't think they do, Kenny. I think the only instance in which things like that matter is if you do something that really alters things, like what GL did. That was a massive change. I don't think the general audience worries about those things. You have to remember they don't analyze like people on a message board do. They watch the show and go on with their lives. They don't come to a board and relive it in their minds as they post their comments. I think if you took a bunch of people out of the general audience and made them hang around a message board for a few months they would become like the typical message board poster. Being on a message board does drastically change the way you view things on a number of levels.

The only reason I like to think of it from the view of TPTB is because I think the bigger picture has a place in discussions like this. I could easily be like everyone else and rip things apart. I may be the optimist around here but I don't sincerely like every thing that happens. I just try to point out the positive and where TPTB may be coming from because I do feel it's important and it's how I try to watch all shows now. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't enjoy watching them as much as I should. TPTB have a rough job. It's easy to bash them but it truly isn't easy.
I used to be a member of the general audience (for years actually), and I paid attention to those things.
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PhoenixRising05
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lysie
Jan 21 2010, 03:23 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 21 2010, 03:17 PM
Kenny
Jan 21 2010, 03:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Jan 21 2010, 03:04 PM
The average viewer is not like those on message boards. They don't give a damn about lighting, wardrobe, scene length, etc.
Maybe not consciously, but subconsciously I do think it makes a difference. How can it not? These things matter, otherwise the shows would have no budget or writing teams at all.

I understand that you like to "speak for TPTB" though. Personally, I just like to speak for myself. TPTB and their difficult positions be damned, LoL.
I honestly don't think they do, Kenny. I think the only instance in which things like that matter is if you do something that really alters things, like what GL did. That was a massive change. I don't think the general audience worries about those things. You have to remember they don't analyze like people on a message board do. They watch the show and go on with their lives. They don't come to a board and relive it in their minds as they post their comments. I think if you took a bunch of people out of the general audience and made them hang around a message board for a few months they would become like the typical message board poster. Being on a message board does drastically change the way you view things on a number of levels.

The only reason I like to think of it from the view of TPTB is because I think the bigger picture has a place in discussions like this. I could easily be like everyone else and rip things apart. I may be the optimist around here but I don't sincerely like every thing that happens. I just try to point out the positive and where TPTB may be coming from because I do feel it's important and it's how I try to watch all shows now. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't enjoy watching them as much as I should. TPTB have a rough job. It's easy to bash them but it truly isn't easy.
I used to be a member of the general audience (for years actually), and I paid attention to those things.
Well, I am sure there are exceptions. I'm speaking in general (no pun intended LOL).
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Alligato
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The biggest reason that I hate EJ right now and think he is such an awful person? Because of him that I have to hear Sami, once again, yell and fuss and blame and scrunch. How he can purposefully listen to that knowing he can put a stop to it and doesn't makes him mightier than SuperRafe. Maybe it is his own personal torture for Rafe. LOL!

How they keep getting Sydney to sleep on EJ is precious.

I feel like Vivian is being wasted on Melanie and her stupid gown pick, and gag about Phillip being the one that she wanted to marry the second she saw him. Maybe so, but why is she still kissing Nathan.
The hug was kind of sweet.

Loved that Carly didn't bow to Victor and stood up to him...and LOL about them going on their Mellip honeymoon.
Julie and Hope were pretty good today...nice to hear Hope finally talk lovingly about Bo.

I love Mama's Family. Is it wrong that I used to crush on Bubba? :)
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esp13
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PhoenixRising05
Jan 21 2010, 03:21 PM
Your right. It would help. All I am saying is that it wouldn't make much of an impact beyond the people who call for it on a message board. That's all. I want the same things you do. I won't be too upset if I don't get it but that doesn't mean I don't want better.

I also didn't mean to imply you or anyone else was stupid. I was just speaking to the process of the TPTB. They do lurk the boards and they do keep things in mind but the current Days regime knows what is going to keep the show going and what is going to continue to make it a success.
I disagree that it wouldn't make much of an impact beyond me and/or others on the board that share my general opinion on the issue. I'm not saying it would bring in hundreds of thousands of new viewers, but I do think it would be noticed by the audience. Maybe not in a conscious way, but subconsiously for sure. Because it's part of what makes a good, compelling show.

Nonetheless, I don't think I or anybody started making threats about not watching or about getting "upset" if it doesn't happen. Not all criticism leveled at the show is intended to be some kind of ultimatum. It's simply talking about things that I feel would make the show better or things that I miss. It's no different than talking positively about some aspect of a storyline that really worked or, for that matter, criticizing the hair and wardrobe department. It's all part of discussing the show.

Lastly, while I tend to believe TPTB have good motives and do want to continue to do what they believe will make the show successful, I don't believe they are infallible gods who can't be criticized or who are all knowing about everything. This regime is no more perfect than any other has been and has made its share of mistakes. As such, I don't think that something is inherently good or can't be improved just because TPTB have decided to do it that way.
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uclan
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Ī Rhi Ī
Jan 20 2010, 08:20 PM
Dragonish1
Jan 20 2010, 02:58 PM
I am in a pissy mood, so maybe this influences my opinion of the show today...But Today's show was painfully boring...And slighty obnoxious.

I think I had the urge to throw gas on every single character and light a match.

POOF! There goes Salem!

My God Melanie is a stupid idiot. I hate that...I am so freaking cute...Let me smile way too big and wrinkle my nose...Let me talk slow like a toddler, because its sooooo cute! *Throws Gas Lights Match*

Bo...Bo Freaking Brady...Really Bo? Really? Are you trying to make the whole town light torches and chase Carly down with pitch forks.?What stupid thing for you to tell Phillip...What a stupid thing to tell Phillip while Viv was listening.*Throws Gas Lights Match*

Mia...Enough of the crying. You are flooding the town. *Throws Gas Lights Match*

I am not even going to go into the sydnapping sl. *Throws Gas on everyone involved and Lights Match*


This show was just sucky.

The only thing worth while was the whole Viv and Hope convo. I liked seeing Hope snap and snarl.

I'll just co-sign when it comes to your description of today's show. I wish I hadn't even bothered to watch.
me too! :sheep:
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DrewHamilton
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Kristian Alfonso looks beautiful today!

Until Hope mentioned it today, I never realized that Hope really has never been in love with another man besides Bo. He's had several women he fell in love with during her time away from Salem, but Hope hasn't.
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Kenny
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esp13
Jan 21 2010, 03:49 PM
I disagree that it wouldn't make much of an impact beyond me and/or others on the board that share my general opinion on the issue. I'm not saying it would bring in hundreds of thousands of new viewers, but I do think it would be noticed by the audience. Maybe not in a conscious way, but subconsiously for sure. Because it's part of what makes a good, compelling show.

I agree.

Just because people have shorter attention spans these days, it doesn't mean they don't enjoy well-written, emotionally gripping, cohesive dramatic stories. Part of the problem with TPTB is that they think they have to play to the lowest common denominator of viewers. I hate that. Furthermore, just because the average viewer might not care so much about the hairstyling or wardrobe or production values doesn't mean TPTB should just let it all go to shit. That's lazy. There's always room for improvement, and it can be done cheaply if TPTB would just care enough to do it.
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